Participants: Chris Shelton (Host), Kenneth Shelton
Series Code: BTLP
Program Code: BTLP000069
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00:41 Hello and welcome to the Behold the Lamb presents.
00:44 I'm Chris Shelton your host 00:45 and we want to welcome you to our Bible study today. 00:48 Today's message is actually the third 00:51 and final message in our three part series 00:53 that we've entitled "Women's Ordination." 00:58 You know, friends, it's worth our repeating 01:01 from part two of this series 01:03 that our hierarchical position does not change 01:06 our equality with God or His love for us. 01:09 Nor does it change the importance of our work. 01:12 In Manuscript Releases, number 9 and page 115, 01:16 it reads, "The Lord wants living members in His church, 01:20 men and women who will encourage 01:22 one another in faithful service." 01:25 And from the Review and Herald dated June 2nd, 1903 01:29 it was written "It is the Lord's purpose 01:32 to have a well-trained army, 01:35 ready to be called into action at a moment's notice. 01:38 This army will be made up of well-disciplined men and women 01:42 who have placed themselves under influences 01:45 that have prepared them for service." 01:48 And finally before our concluding study 01:51 on this subject today with Pastor Kenny Shelton, 01:53 allow me to share one more rather short quote 01:56 as found Manuscript Releases again. 01:59 But this time number 5 and page 162, 02:04 "God wants workers who can carry the truth to all classes, 02:08 high and low, rich and poor. 02:10 In this work women may act an important part. 02:15 God grant that those who read these words 02:17 may put forth earnest efforts to present an open door 02:22 for consecrated women to enter into the field. 02:25 It is not eloquence that makes their work acceptable. 02:28 It is through the human and contrite that the Lord works." 02:32 Friends, we have all been given a heavenly commission 02:36 of soul winning work to be done before the Lord's second coming 02:40 and because of this call upon many women's hearts 02:45 the question of ordination 02:46 as pastors as occurred within the church. 02:49 So let's conclude giving an answer to this question 02:52 through our together today with Pastor Kenny Shelton. 02:56 But before we do just that let's turn our hearts heaven. 03:00 Well, shall we? 03:01 Through this song that is entitled "Remember Me" 03:04 and it's sung by Sandra Entermann 03:06 from the 3ABN Worship Centre. 03:22 Remember me 03:27 In a Bible cracked 03:29 And faded by the years 03:36 Remember me 03:40 In a sanctuary 03:42 Filled with silent prayers 03:49 And age to age 03:53 And heart to heart 03:56 Bound by grace and peace 04:03 Child of wonder, Child of God 04:09 I'll remember you 04:15 Remember me 04:30 Remember me 04:34 When the color of the sunset 04:38 Fills the sky 04:43 Remember me 04:47 When you pray and the tears of joy 04:49 Fall from your eyes 04:56 And age to age 04:59 And heart to heart 05:03 Bound by grace and peace 05:09 Child of wonder, Child of God 05:16 I'll remember you 05:22 Remember me 05:36 Remember me 05:41 When the children leave 05:43 Their Sabbath school with smiles 05:49 Remember me 05:53 When they're old enough to teach 05:56 Old enough to preach 05:59 Old enough to leave 06:04 And age to age 06:07 And heart to heart 06:11 Bound by grace and peace 06:17 Child of wonder, Child of God 06:23 I'll remember you 06:29 Remember me 06:32 Age to age and heart to heart 06:35 Child of wonder, Child of God 06:42 Remember me 06:45 Age to age and heart to heart 06:48 Child of wonder, Child of God 06:54 Remember Me 07:18 Thanks for joining us again. Praise God. 07:20 Remember, subject is Women's Ordination. 07:23 Now this is topic that we need to know 07:25 what truth is, don't we? 07:27 Even if it maybe not be popular today 07:29 I know as the child of God 07:31 you want to know what truth is and I do too. 07:33 And you know what once we find out 07:35 and maybe we've made a mistake, 07:37 we need to ask God to forgive us and what simply what? 07:39 Follow the Word whatever the cost 07:41 maybe God will bless us if we do. 07:44 So we're gonna continue, 07:45 remember this is the third part of three part series. 07:48 And so the first two, we've covered awful lot of material 07:51 and if you've missed them you want to get it. 07:53 And on this third part here, 07:54 we get right into some real meed of the word. 07:56 So if you've missed the first two you might be little fuzzy 07:58 but it all makes sense, all balanced upon scripture. 08:02 But before we get into, 08:04 we always pray once again for the power of the Holy Spirit. 08:07 Would you kneel with me some of you where you can 08:09 and others maybe you're going down the road of whatever 08:12 just pray along as you can. 08:13 Let's pray. 08:15 Loving Father in heaven, 08:16 we thank You for the privilege for prayer. 08:17 We ask now for the power of thy Holy Spirit 08:19 to consume each and every one of us. 08:21 Open our hearts and our minds 08:23 may we see Jesus, may we see the truth, 08:25 maybe we'll be willing to follow 08:27 what you have said in Your word. 08:28 And we're going to thank You in advance 08:30 for that in Jesus name, amen. 08:34 You know we have a big question here 08:35 and we're gonna start this third part with a question. 08:38 Talking about big question is, 08:39 should women in the church be in a teaching position 08:44 which gives them authority over man? 08:47 Now again if you miss the other 08:48 you're going kind be a little bit confused 08:50 but should they be-- should they be in the church 08:52 teaching in a position where they have authority over man. 08:55 You've realized the Bible really answers that. 08:57 Touchy, touchy, touchy 08:59 and lot of people don't want to approach it and they try to say 09:01 "well, we're looking down and you try." 09:02 We want to know what God's word says. 09:04 So why don't we just way it out today. 09:06 Now what kind of teaching we're talking about? 09:08 We're talking about the authoritative teaching 09:11 that an elder or a pastor should be doing. 09:15 And then you know and again we've mentioned several times, 09:18 it has nothing to do with the ability. 09:20 It has nothing to do with say with brain. 09:22 It has to do with education. 09:24 It has nothing to do how great, 09:25 how qualified that a women maybe, individual maybe. 09:29 Paul's instruction is very, very clear 09:31 we either follow it or we make excuses for it. 09:34 We follow it and here's what he said to Timothy. 09:37 He said to Timothy, "He prohibited a woman to teach, 09:40 or to have authority over the man." 09:43 Heard an awful lot of excuses over the years 09:45 and just say "well, he didn't mean that." 09:46 Yeah. 09:47 Well, if you say that I might be-- 09:49 I'll pick a few other things 09:50 and say "well, I think that he really meant that." 09:52 Paul said he didn't want women to teach 09:54 or to have in a teaching position 09:56 that has authority over men. 09:57 Didn't say they couldn't teach the authority over man. 10:00 This then by itself as 1 Timothy 1:3 says 10:05 absolutely rules out a woman 10:07 from being a pastor or the overseer of man. 10:11 Kind of interesting thought isn't it. 10:14 Some of you bring up say yeah, but you remember 10:16 Aquila and Priscilla you know 10:17 and in their home church and things were going. 10:19 Yeah, we might be just be really be honest here. 10:22 Do you remember Paul? 10:23 Paul spends some time, he was in Ephesus, he was in Corinth. 10:28 He was in different times at different places 10:30 and when he traveled he stayed in people's houses. 10:33 He became acquainted with well educated women, 10:38 women who ran businesses, 10:39 women who owned businesses, women in authority. 10:43 Interesting, he even stayed in their house 10:45 but this was still what he said. 10:48 He said he stepped off 10:49 that a woman should not teach in a capacity 10:53 that would have authority over a man. 10:55 That will be hard to do, wouldn't it. 10:57 But I'm real good friends with everybody 10:58 unless it's a truth of God's word 11:00 and then we all have to bow to there or we should. 11:03 Interesting--what was some of the reasons 11:05 or let's say one of the reasons right now 11:07 we'll hit it two or three times as we go on 11:09 or principle of his position. 11:11 Why would he take this position which is so controversial? 11:14 Why? 11:16 Well, Paul uses to say 1 Timothy 2:13 he said 11:20 "Adam was first formed" 11:22 notice this "formed first and then Eve." 11:25 So Adam then had to responsibility of leadership. 11:30 He had headship. 11:32 He was the first born in the family. 11:35 You can read about Christ being the first born 11:37 in 1 Corinthians or 1 Colossians 1:15-18 I believe. 11:42 Take time to read it. 11:43 It refers to Christ as the first born. 11:45 And you know He was before all and in all. 11:50 But as Paul is talking about here, 11:52 some people are challenged. 11:54 I mean, they're really challenged 11:55 with the teachings of Paul 11:57 but my question would be are we wiling to accept them 12:00 as we see that they are the truth of God's word 12:03 regards that what we might want to be 12:05 or you know our position right now. 12:07 Are we willing to follow God's word, 12:08 that's always the big question? 12:12 Are we willing to follow from a biblical standpoint? 12:16 And if we do, we know that its Paul taught 12:18 they should be under the leadership 12:20 or the woman should be under the headship 12:22 of a man called into office. 12:24 You know, calling the pastor and elder of the church. 12:29 Bible clearly, clearly teaches that a man as what? 12:32 As head as leadership role is to be like Christ. 12:37 Boy, what a challenge to be like Christ. 12:39 The spiritual leader not only probably in the church 12:42 but also in the home. 12:45 Interesting and notice this some of you go 12:48 just raise right off the couch 12:50 but realize that Bible is very clear the women 12:52 is to be in a submissive, 12:54 supporting, assisting help meed, 12:57 to the man in the leadership role. 13:00 That's what the Bible talks about, isn't it? 13:02 Yeah, we have to line up with the word. 13:05 Now we talk about the female role, 13:07 you know, it doesn't mean that a woman 13:09 just you know has to completely just bow to the man 13:13 and you know she loses her, your individuality. 13:16 That's not what he's talking about here 13:17 or a conscience to the man. 13:20 Her first obligation is to God. 13:23 Notice this, her service is to her husband, very interesting. 13:28 Because what, because this is fit in the Lord 13:31 as it would be fit in the Lord. 13:33 And notice only those women in that's fit in the Lord 13:36 that would be have relationship with God 13:39 will be able to give this kind of submission. 13:42 You have to have relationship with God. 13:44 Not I want, I think or it should be. 13:48 I'm sure at this point 13:49 some of you are gonna say "oh wow, wow." 13:51 Well, "oh I have got." 13:52 They'll say I-- and they use this all the time. 13:54 Well, what about Deborah and Huldah, what about them? 13:58 It's very interesting first of all they were prophets. 14:02 We should never entertain shame on you, 14:05 shame on me or anybody else 14:07 when you're talking about ordination 14:08 of an elder or a pastor 14:10 and then you bring in and compare it 14:12 with the office of a prophet. 14:14 That will be like comparing they say, 14:15 you know, got to have apples over here 14:17 and somebody has got oranges 14:18 and you're trying to make them the same thing. 14:20 First of all we should never do it. 14:22 But since some of you do 14:23 let's talk about it in just a little bit. 14:25 Remember, we cannot we must not be confused 14:29 the office a prophet cannot be confused 14:32 with the office of a pastor or an elder 14:36 who they're actually in service. 14:38 They're in elected leadership role 14:41 but you know in the Bible the prophet was called of what, 14:44 called and chosen of God. 14:48 Even in the Old Testament you'll find the Kings, 14:50 you'll find the Judges, you'll find that priest 14:53 were all subject to the prophets 14:55 that's what the Bible said isn't it. 14:57 Let's make a comparisons can we do that? 15:00 Since some of you, since some of you used Deborah. 15:03 And again we should not do that 15:04 because there is a prophet 15:05 and we're talking about ordination 15:06 of elders and pastors. 15:07 They're not prophets, that's a different position 15:10 but since some of you use that let's look at that quickly. 15:13 Since, Deborah is used by some as proof 15:17 for women's ordination as an elder or a pastor. 15:21 Maybe the closest comparisons 15:24 would be that of Ellen G White, may not be so bold. 15:28 First of all let's do a few things. 15:30 First of all Ellen White she never claimed 15:33 to be a leader of the church. 15:37 She was never ordained by the denomination. 15:42 Number three, she never performed 15:46 the duties of an ordained minister. 15:49 Wow, now as we look at these things and the Bible teaches, 15:54 we have to pay close attention to it. 15:57 But remember again, Deborah a prophet a judge, 16:01 she was called to lead Israel there's no doubt about it. 16:04 But let me say this, Debra was called 16:07 to lead Israel in the absence of a capable man. 16:10 I know you don't want to hear it 16:12 but that's to read Judges Chapter 4. 16:15 See the Judges of Israel always led the army into battle. 16:20 Interesting, the judges always right there who are in charge 16:23 always led the army of Israel into battle. 16:26 But here, you know, the God said that 16:30 "Barak was to lead the army." 16:32 Read that in verse 6 and 7 of Judges 4. 16:36 But interesting he went Deborah and he said 16:39 "ah, if you don't go with me I'm not going to go." 16:43 How sad that is. 16:45 Here again this just kind of builds up what I'm talking here 16:49 because Signs of the Times in June 16, 1881 16:53 talks about this reference. 16:55 Notice this "Although he had been designated 16:59 by the Lord himself as the one chosen to deliver Israel, 17:03 and had received the assurance of God would go with him 17:08 and subdue their enemies, yet he was timid and distrustful." 17:16 See, she didn't go lead the armies, 17:18 all of the judges but they always went. 17:21 But now God called right another man to go 17:23 and lead the army into victory 17:25 and because he was distrustful of himself 17:28 he was timid and shy, 17:30 Judges 4:16 says Israel pursued the enemy 17:33 and there it was not a man left. 17:36 Now keep on this it's very, very important. 17:39 Although the enemy the enemy was route, 17:41 the God still blessed 17:42 but notice there was one man that was left. 17:45 And he ran and he hid, you can read all of that-- 17:48 the account of it we don't have time 17:49 to go into everything. 17:50 He ran and hid at the tent 17:52 and then finally he was came to life that he was an enemy 17:55 and another woman Jael she end up taking his life 18:00 when she find out he was an enemy. 18:03 And so the battle didn't go to the, you know, the glory. 18:06 They say the battle didn't go to a man. 18:08 It did not go to Deborah it went to the woman 18:11 who had killed the enemy. 18:13 Interesting, Judges 4 read that 9:17-25. 18:18 See this example helps me to understand 18:20 or help that a man sometime refuses to lead. 18:24 He refuses to do that role that God has put him into. 18:28 And when he refuses and there is no one there to do it 18:31 there is need for someone to step up. 18:33 And many times he has used a woman to do that like Deborah. 18:38 Now remember in the absence of what? 18:40 A capable man. 18:42 Now you'll say well, what about the New Testament. 18:44 Well, in Acts Chapter 15, the New Testament church 18:48 they faced all kind of issues. 18:50 They face theological issues 18:53 which must be settled by the Word of God. 18:55 So you were looking at a theological issue right now 18:58 and it has to be settled by what, by the Word of God here. 19:01 It's not a certain little group, 19:03 it's not a group over here it says 19:05 "we can settle because it's a theological issue" 19:08 or group who gets together and say 19:09 "well, I think we all do it this is best for the church, 19:11 this is best for this group over here." 19:13 What does God's word have to say about it? 19:17 Not a group who just wants the issue 19:19 to be you know carried it out in a certain way. 19:22 No not given to the hands of a group 19:24 who is willing to compromise the truth away 19:27 just to get it resolved to keep down the-- 19:30 you know uneasiness. 19:34 Not just someone just says you know 19:36 this would be good in this country 19:38 and this would be over here. 19:40 The Word of God is uniformed it's around the world 19:44 and we all to need to come in unity 19:45 and harmony of the Word of God. 19:47 So what did the New Testament do 19:48 when they'd the theological crisis 19:51 just like we have in many areas today? 19:53 What did they do? 19:54 Well, first of all the meeting was called. 19:56 If so praise God that's what we do. 19:58 Delegates from all over that were called in. 20:01 They came together, they came for a discussion of the issue. 20:05 And wouldn't it be nice today 20:06 if we follow the counsel given in the Word of God. 20:09 And you know what was that-- 20:11 that's what we do we have theological crisis 20:13 we call different people in. 20:14 It's interesting but many times it's difficult 20:16 because some people already have their mind made up. 20:19 Oh, we went so far that we're afraid to go backwards now 20:22 and to admit that we made a mistake. 20:24 Would it better to admit that and turn and like God blesses? 20:27 I think so. 20:30 Let's go and we might look at the end of the day 20:32 we might hear this. 20:33 And I think I have this a few times. 20:35 Have the meeting people come together and talk about it 20:38 and the people in charge will meet together 20:39 and say we just had a good meeting, 20:42 it was nice that people voiced their opinion 20:44 but you know what, no changes took place. 20:48 We cannot overlook and once again the office 20:52 of an elder or a pastor, the ordination. 20:54 Here is what it says remember 20:56 they must be the husband of one wife. 21:00 Now that's just doesn't eliminate a women 21:03 for being ordained as an elder or pastor. 21:04 I don't know what? How can we throw that out? 21:07 I'm not trying to be cruel, 21:09 not trying to be ugly on the issue. 21:11 I'm not-- but how is it that 21:13 when we want something to take place we throw things out. 21:16 An elder and pastor must be the husband. 21:20 So ladies, unless you can be the husband you disqualified 21:24 that's what the Bible says. 21:28 You know I have heard many people give a lot of reasons 21:31 for things that I have just talked about here 21:33 and you know well, this is what it means 21:34 and this is, you know, let me just say bold 21:37 it means exactly what it says. 21:39 That's exactly what it means. 21:41 Yeah, it's up to us to have the relationship with Christ 21:43 that we are willing to follow that even if our hearts desire 21:45 maybe something else, we need to pray the God will help us. 21:48 We should not try to change the Word of God. 21:51 We're not different than lot of the other people 21:53 we say in lot of churches in different thing. 21:55 Oh, they're changing the word to suit theirs. 21:57 We do not want to be known by 21:58 well, we're gonna change it 21:59 to suit what we want to see happen in our movement. 22:04 Remember-- remember, this when the meetings were finished 22:07 that we were talking about in the New Testament church, 22:10 you know nothing was voted on 22:13 just because there was a need in the certain area 22:19 or they wanted to vote because they just wanted to vote 22:22 and get it over with 22:23 and just then no one else to fill the office 22:25 or they just put somebody in there. 22:28 The voting ended, 22:30 and it became binding listen, on all churches. 22:33 Well, the New Testament leadership came together 22:36 theological issues, when they got done they voted on it 22:39 and that's what they carried out in every church. 22:42 But sometime we say well, this group can do this in this area. 22:46 Oh, this group can do this in this other area. 22:49 And some of you can't do it at all 22:50 and you can only go this far and not the other. 22:53 See that's not scriptural that's not biblical at all. 22:57 Now let's go into look, let's look and I'm afraid to this. 23:00 I'm really afraid that many people 23:02 they don't want to as they say backup 23:05 they want to look at it straight forward. 23:08 We can only pray as we see these two, 23:10 why, because the blessings of God 23:12 can only be gift to a people to a church 23:14 and a movement that follows His word 23:17 regardless, if there is some people upset. 23:20 We got to follow God's word. 23:21 You want people upset you want God upset with us? 23:23 Now I know you, you want, we want the blessings of God. 23:27 Some of you gonna say well, 23:28 look you know this issue right here 23:30 was different before sin entered in 23:32 and now after sin they've ever lived. 23:34 Let me let's just clarify that shall we clarify that. 23:37 God established before the fall 23:42 that Adam right, he was the principle 23:45 or he was the male, he was the headship, 23:48 he was the leader. 23:50 That was the principle, before the fall Adam was the head. 23:56 Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 23:58 he said "But I would have you know that the head" 24:00 listen "of every man is Christ." 24:03 Now if you think it's gonna get easier 24:05 as we go along bless your heart its not. 24:07 If you're in opposition, 24:09 you know, we have a lot of people in opposition 24:11 to what is true but please don't be. 24:14 You have an argument you argue with the Holy Spirit, 24:16 argue with the word if you think you ought to do that. 24:18 I don't think you should. 24:20 Let's just accept it. Here's what Paul said. 24:22 "But I would have you know that 24:23 the head of every man is Christ." 24:25 Praise God. 24:26 Listen, "and the head of the woman is the man 24:31 and the head of Christ is God." 24:33 Now notice how he continues on in 2 Timothy 2:12, 13, 14. 24:39 It simply says this "that a woman is not to" what? 24:45 "Usurp authority over the man." 24:48 So she is not to be in a capacity that what, 24:50 that puts her over the man. 24:52 We're talking about in the home 24:53 we're talking about in the church. 24:56 Read verse 13 he says once again 24:58 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve." 25:01 Verse 14 he said "Adam was not deceived, 25:05 but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 25:09 There is a reason why God chose, 25:11 He set it up and put man as the head 25:14 in the home and in the church. 25:17 And he should not be in submissive 25:18 as it were to some of the women in leadership in the church. 25:22 He is the head, leadership role. 25:25 Now notice this. 25:27 You need to listen to this quote. 25:28 Patriarchs and Prophets, page 58. 25:32 This really begins to hit home if you think about this word. 25:36 "Eve was told of the sorrow and the pain 25:39 that must henceforth be her portion." 25:43 And the Lord said this call is in Genesis 3:16. 25:46 It says "now he said because sin." 25:48 Now before sin what Adam was still ahead, 25:51 now sin has come in 25:53 and then God says to Eve now this is going pain and sorrow, 25:56 childbirth, this is gonna be your portion. 25:58 Now He said "Thy desire shall be to thy husband, 26:02 and he shall rule over thee." 26:05 And no don't get all excited about. 26:07 Somebody would say yeah get all flush, don't listen. 26:10 That's what the Bible says. 26:12 But we need to look at and we want to balance it out 26:14 the way it should be here if you give enough time 26:16 and listen and not close your ears. 26:18 The word rule you look at in the Hebrew right here it says 26:22 it's gonna have dominion over, he's going to govern over, 26:25 he's going to rule over. 26:26 That's what it really means. 26:28 "Thy desire will be to thy husband" that means, 26:31 I-- this right here that word desire means, 26:33 I'm-- she is always going to be looking 26:35 to her husband for guidance. 26:38 She's going to stretch out often after him. 26:43 That's way the God set it up. 26:46 In the beginning they were what? 26:47 Certainly equal but sin came in. 26:49 Man, did that change things? Absolutely. 26:53 Reading on notice this, 26:55 "In creation God had made her the equal of Adam." 27:00 See, lot of people trying to say oh, I still-- 27:02 doesn't mean one's any better than the other 27:04 but remember there is headship there is leadership. 27:07 God had designed it such. 27:09 "In the beginning He made her equal of Adam. 27:12 Had they remained obedient to God" 27:16 listen "in harmony with His great law of love, 27:20 they would have ever been in harmony with each other." 27:24 Have you ever found two people? 27:25 Well, I don't want to spend much time 27:26 go we not gonna little cover, 27:27 we're not gonna cover all this, Lord help us. 27:30 We see it right here. 27:31 That what happened is, 27:32 if they stayed obedient to God 27:33 they were always been in harmony with each other. 27:36 But when sin came in it changed everything. 27:39 Have you ever find two people who worked to 27:41 you know they have the kind of same mind 27:42 we call them sometime hardheads. 27:44 You can't get past it. 27:46 You can't any so God said, 27:49 I'm-- He is gonna designate one as leader over the other now, 27:52 headship because of the sin issue, 27:55 because they could never get along on that same plain. 27:58 Now notice how it says. 27:59 "They would ever been harmony with each other 28:01 but sin had brought discord" 28:04 listen, "and union could only" union between who? 28:09 Man and woman, "could be maintained 28:11 and harmony preserved 28:14 only by the submission on the part of one to the other." 28:19 Now why, why always say, why poor Eve why? 28:22 "Eve had been the first in transgression. 28:25 She had fallen into temptation." 28:27 Notice, people always say yeah, but she went. 28:30 Listen, where was her first problem? 28:32 Please read, the article is very clear 28:34 "by separating from her companion, 28:37 contrary to the divine direction." 28:40 Notice article goes on. 28:42 It was now listen here's the problem. 28:45 "It was by her solicitude" right "that Adam sinned." 28:49 She went to her husband and told him about it. 28:51 And what she solicit. 28:53 She was accountable for that. 28:54 She was tempted, she failed. 28:55 She was the first in transgression. 28:57 Harmony could not be maintained 29:00 unless God had set it up now that the man should rule over. 29:03 We're talking about in the Christ like way. 29:05 Notice, now notice this, now why because sin came in. 29:10 Now, "she was placed in subjection to her husband." 29:15 Sin issue, now this next part 29:18 it's not any lighter and it gets heavy. 29:21 It goes on it says "Eve had been perfectly happy." 29:25 See, we find a lot of Eves in the world today 29:27 they seemed to be but they're not happy in their position 29:30 and they're looking for other positions. 29:32 You see it more and more and more. 29:33 But God has a position for every one of us 29:35 and place to feel and we need to feel 29:36 what He you plan He has for us. 29:39 "Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband's side 29:44 even in Eden home but," 29:47 listen this "like modern Eve's, she was flattered 29:52 with the hope of entering into a higher sphere" 29:56 listen, "entering into a higher sphere 29:58 than God had assigned her. 30:03 In attempting to rise above her original position, 30:09 she failed far below it. 30:13 A similar result will be reached by all 30:17 who unwilling to take cheerfully their duties 30:21 in accordance with God's plan. 30:24 In their efforts to reach notice to this 30:26 "in their efforts to reach a position 30:28 for which He had not fitted them, many are" what? 30:33 "Leaving vacant the place 30:35 where they might have been a blessing." 30:37 You think God doesn't have place, 30:39 you think God hasn't designed, you think God doesn't know. 30:41 Sure He does. 30:43 Because they want to reach something higher 30:45 a plain, a plateau that God has never set, 30:48 that's what He wanted them to do. 30:50 So by searching scriptures it becomes clear 30:52 that a male is to be the leader, 30:55 he is to be the head of the family 30:57 and head of the church, 30:59 the female is to be a supporting role. 31:02 The Bible says "a helpmeet." 31:05 Two points, God established this arrangement 31:09 but remember what He established this arrangement 31:12 because so many people will fight. 31:13 So many things I'm talking about there, 31:15 these are points on which people are fighting today. 31:17 God established this arrangement 31:19 before the fall of man. 31:22 And then after the fall of man He reiterated it. 31:25 He repeated it again. 31:28 Notice a few important points of leadership role 31:33 that God assigned to man at creation. 31:36 Please just balance it out with me. 31:37 I'm not trying to pick on the women 31:38 and I'm not trying to but its not a downplay at all. 31:40 God has assigned you a role, He has assigned me a role, 31:42 everybody a role we need to fulfill that 31:45 or it's gonna be something that's gonna be left. 31:46 We're trying to-- no we don't want to reach out that. 31:48 We don't want that "oh we're doing something 31:50 we're not supposed to be doing." 31:52 Who did God created first? 31:54 This is the first, who did, we talked about it. 31:56 He created Adam. 31:58 Paul uses this again when he says 32:01 "I do not permit woman to teach or to have authority over man." 32:07 It's interesting we always say "oh, Paul, what man of God. 32:08 What a man of God?" 32:09 There is something we read and we do want to hear it. 32:11 Oh, my, he sure messed up there. 32:13 He didn't really mean what he said. 32:15 You know better than that. 32:17 There has to be an explanation for why he said, 32:19 what he said so clear, so plain and we need to follow. 32:22 1 Timothy 2:12-13 32:24 we talked a little bit about it. 32:26 He said once again "Adam was first formed" 32:29 right first "and then Eve." 32:31 Adam was the first born let's go over it again. 32:34 "He must accept the responsibility 32:36 and leadership both in the family 32:38 and in the church." 32:40 Point 2, in Genesis 2:15-17, God gave Adam responsibility. 32:46 Listen He gave Adam responsibility 32:49 of keeping the garden. 32:52 And then he told Adam 32:54 then there about the tree as a test. 32:58 Adam was given, listen carefully 33:00 the spiritual role in the garden. 33:03 He was given the spiritual role. 33:06 Listen, the enemy knew this. 33:09 The enemy knew this, 33:11 he knew Adam was the spiritual leader 33:14 but you know what, so what did the enemy do? 33:17 He attacked and challenged Eve. 33:21 Interesting, not the spiritual leader but Eve. 33:26 The enemy speaks to Eve rather than to Adam. 33:31 And then I will say again, who disobeyed first? 33:33 Well, it was Eve. 33:35 Now but still what, 33:39 still proving Adam was still the leader 33:41 both in the home and in the spiritual lives. 33:45 Another thought listen, "who did after sin took place, 33:50 who did God call out by name after the fall." 33:56 Come on, somebody think with me, who did-- 33:57 other words who was God 33:59 as it were number one holding responsibility-- 34:02 given the responsibility to after the fall. 34:06 In Genesis 3:9-12 Adam was held accountable 34:10 for what Eve had done and of course, what he did. 34:17 God said be listen "Adam because thou has harkened 34:22 to the voice of thy wife." 34:26 See God wouldn't have handled this situation like this 34:30 if Adam was not already given the headship role. 34:35 Adam was a representative of the human family. 34:39 And notice this in the marriage 34:41 notice that what is Bible says. 34:45 That a man must leave his father and mother 34:49 and certainly unite with his wife. 34:52 Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:4, 5. 34:56 See the women's role the Bible is clear 34:58 "as to be a helpmeet 35:00 to compliment her husband in his work." 35:04 Genesis 2:18 and the verses 23 through 24. 35:09 "And then God charges man with a responsibility." 35:13 See after this then "God charges man 35:15 with responsibility to love and cherish 35:18 and take care of his wife." 35:20 Ephesians 5:25 in verses 28 and 31, 35:24 1 Peter 3:7, 1 Timothy 3:4 and Titus 1:6. 35:30 Now listen here's the thought. 35:32 When the enemy spoke to Eve 35:36 he was challenging God himself. 35:40 He was challenging God's headship. 35:44 He was challenging the role of man. 35:48 And now Eve, notice, the abode do we see it happening today. 35:53 And when Eve assumed a position that was not hers, 35:58 look what happened to her, the human race and the world. 36:03 Look, what happened to them immediately. 36:06 Listen, what happened to them immediately? 36:08 Immediately they turned on each other, 36:11 immediately blaming each other 36:13 the Bible says in Genesis 3:12, 36:17 male, female roles were reversed 36:22 as sin entered in. 36:25 Don't we see that today? Don't we see that today? 36:28 I'm not trying to be critical or condemning but you know 36:31 man stays home and takes care of the kids 36:33 and mama goes to work. 36:35 That it may not be helpful what the situations right, 36:38 but let-- don't reverse the roles. 36:40 God said "man will work six days 36:43 by the sweat of his grout. 36:44 Women would bare children take care of the home 36:46 as her first responsibility." 36:48 That because of sin roles were reversed. 36:53 She became the spokesman, interesting. 36:58 But Bible says what women is to submit herself 37:02 to her husband thy desire. 37:05 Remember Genesis 3:16 and we talked about here 37:07 "Thy desire shall be to thy husband 37:09 and he shall rule over thee." 37:11 Keep this in mind please Spirit of Prophecy 37:14 recognizes these principles, stay with me. 37:17 Even people have used this well, but now listen 37:20 things have changed now. 37:21 Oh, really? 37:23 We started before the fall and then go after the fall 37:25 and now you'll say "oh, yeah, but in the New Testament." 37:27 Now remember the things after the death 37:30 and resurrection of Christ things changed. 37:34 Really, listen to this Testimonies, 37:36 listen, on Sexual Behavior page 28. 37:39 This is heavy, "We women must remember 37:46 that God has placed us subject to the husband. 37:51 He is the head, our judgment and our views 37:57 and our reasoning must agree with his, if possible." 38:04 Now wait a minute, 38:07 if not we can't come to an agreement here. 38:10 Now we're gonna get clear on this subject. 38:11 We're not talking about just any man who thinks he is-- 38:13 you know he's a ruler of the house 38:15 and he doesn't know God not talking about you. 38:18 We're talking about man 38:19 who says he's a Christian, man here. 38:20 But listen, okay, there's err we just can't get along, 38:23 we can't agree. 38:25 Spirit of Prophecy says this 38:26 "If not, the preference in God's Word 38:31 is given to the husband 38:34 where it is not a matter of conscience." 38:38 If your husband doesn't make you go against thus sayeth 38:40 the Lord then it says we is to agree with our husband. 38:44 Notice this she says "We" women 38:48 "must yield to the head." 38:52 Wow, that must be hard, that must maybe hard to write down, 38:55 maybe hard to swallow today but listen once more 38:58 1 Testimonies 307, "The husband is the head of the family, 39:03 as Christ is the head of the church any course" 39:07 listen carefully "any course which the wife may pursue 39:11 to lessen his influence to lead him down from his dignified, 39:17 responsible position is displeasing to God." 39:22 And interesting and for those who use Galatians 3:28 39:26 where it says "O it's neither male nor female." 39:30 This statement can be used to indicate anything. 39:33 It indicates that homosexuality is acceptable 39:35 some people will say I don't need male and female. 39:38 You can't say homosexuality then its right, 39:40 then it's acceptable. 39:45 So it really can't be used to do away with what, God's plan. 39:49 There are different roles of the women 39:51 and different roles of the man. 39:53 Remember, women that it's the equality 39:57 between a man and a woman, male and female 40:01 but what the male is the head, he is responsible, 40:05 he is the leader of the family and in the church in the Lord. 40:09 Now notice this with me. 40:10 Listen, now Adventist Home page 117. 40:13 Here's for all of you man who jumping up and down 40:14 clapping your hands don't be it too soon. 40:17 If you're not in the Lord you're not serving Him 40:18 then you don't qualify. 40:20 Is it okay, to say that I think it is? 40:22 Because I hear a lot of people say that 40:24 they're not Christians, 40:25 they're not using the Bible as a rule of thumb. 40:26 They try to rule the wife and load it over her 40:29 you have no right to do that 40:30 because you don't have to judgment the Word of God. 40:32 Listen what the Adventist Home, 117 says. 40:35 "You cannot", talking about the man, 40:36 "you cannot claim this role if you're not in the Lord. 40:42 It was not the design of God that the husband 40:45 should have control, as head" 40:47 listen "over the house 40:49 when he himself does not submit to Christ." 40:54 So if he submits to Christ little different issue, 40:57 if he doesn't submit to Christ he can't fulfill that role, 40:59 then can he. 41:01 Now notice this, "He must be under the rule of Christ 41:05 that he may represent the relationship of Christ 41:09 to the church." 41:10 Now listen as this goes, listen. 41:13 Now somebody would say well in my house we all go to church 41:15 but you know here, and listen this. 41:17 "Unless he is coarse, rough, boisterous, egotistical, 41:24 harsh, overbearing man, let him never utter the words 41:31 that the husband is the head of the wife." 41:34 So if you're one of those harsh, rough, boisterous, 41:36 egotistical, harsh, overbearing man 41:38 never ever utter those words to your wife. 41:43 That well, I'm the husband I'm head of the wife. 41:47 And then notice this so let's get pretty 41:50 we have to look at it closely. 41:51 "And that she must submit to him in everything." 41:55 But notice this, "for he is not the Lord, 41:59 he is not the husband 42:01 in the true significance of the term." 42:05 I didn't say you can't you know can't work along with 42:09 and be the helpmeet with and can't agree and get along. 42:12 But she says you don't have to do everything 42:14 when it goes against the principles of God's word 42:16 if he is that kind of man. 42:17 He hasn't given his heart to Jesus. 42:19 If he has and he's trying, he's working day by day 42:23 to be what God wants him to do to be his role in the church 42:27 right and in the home he is the head the leader. 42:30 See much of this dilemma as far as I'm concerned 42:32 can be traced back to poor leadership of man, 42:36 of elders and pastors even today 42:38 in the past and the present. 42:40 The poor teaching, the poor self control 42:43 that they haven't been converted their laziness 42:46 and the cause of Christ and looking for somebody 42:48 to take the load off and their burden 42:50 so they don't have to do it and let somebody else do it. 42:53 They lack a spiritual backbone. 42:57 This is dangerous. 43:00 And because we have not men stood 43:04 where we're supposed to stand upon the Word of God 43:06 is become necessary many times for God to call a woman 43:09 to do in an office first time 43:12 to fulfill because we haven't done it. 43:15 Shame on us. 43:17 Women are to fill their roles 43:18 and we're fulfill our roles, it's dangerous. 43:23 And now because men haven't done what they do 43:25 there's call now going and forward rapid now 43:28 for women's ordination. 43:30 Won't you think is the time to for these abuses 43:33 to come to a close. 43:35 Wouldn't it be time for us to just to confess our wrongs 43:39 and our failures 43:40 and say God we want to lineup with scripture. 43:43 Let's not forget the fairness and equality. 43:47 In many times in the past with women this is not been so. 43:52 Example, where the husband and the wife ministered together 43:56 to working along side by side in ministry. 43:58 Remember, when it says in ministry 44:00 it doesn't mean you're a minister. 44:02 When it says we do ministry work 44:04 it doesn't mean you're pastor. 44:06 These are all different but in the ministry, 44:08 the ministry means in a work for Christ, 44:10 right, work for others. 44:12 Because some people will say 44:13 well, the wife shouldn't receive a wages 44:15 you know she works with her husband but she shouldn't. 44:17 Is that true? No it's true, she should. 44:21 Manuscript, 43, 1893, "If the Lord gives the wife" 44:26 of the minister listen "as well as the husband 44:29 the burden of labor, if she devotes her time 44:32 and her strength to visiting from family to family 44:36 opening the Scriptures" 44:38 notice "although the hands of ordination 44:42 have never been laid upon her, she is accomplishing a work." 44:47 Isn't that wonderful? 44:48 She is accomplishing a work 44:51 and that is inline with ministry. 44:54 "As the devoted minister and his wife engaged in the work, 45:00 they should be paid wages proportionate 45:03 to the wages of two distinct workers. 45:06 The Lord has put His spirit upon both." 45:09 Wow, heavy. 45:12 There again God calls us back to Scripture 45:16 as we come in line with it we must reject 45:19 and once again we must lineup with Scripture 45:21 we reject the ordination of women as elders and pastors 45:25 but at the same time don't forget 45:27 women have a legitimate role in ministry 45:30 in which the Bible gives the guidelines. 45:33 Book of Evangelism, 467 and 468. 45:36 Hey you may, we may, we can't we can't get by 45:39 without a good woman, with godly woman. 45:42 We need them and some people call me here 45:44 and say good thing, you have a godly wife 45:46 she keeps you in line. 45:48 Praise God, we need that balance. 45:52 But we look at here the women have a legitimate role 45:54 to work Evangelism. 45:55 Notice this "Wonderful is the mission of the wives 45:58 and mothers and the younger woman workers. 46:02 If they will exert an influence for good 46:06 to all around them." 46:07 Notice it oh, wow. 46:10 Good example, notice this, "By modesty in dress, 46:14 circumspect deportment, 46:16 they may bear witness to the truth in its simplicity. 46:21 They may let their light so shine before all, 46:23 that others will see their good works and glorify their Father 46:27 which is in heaven. 46:29 A truly converted woman will exert a powerful transforming 46:34 influence for good." 46:37 What do many things that many men cannot do 46:39 and do it better? 46:41 But it's not ordaining against what the Bible has said 46:44 of elders and pastors. 46:46 But the work that man cannot do. 46:48 Now notice how it says here. 46:49 Notice this article goes on talking about oh we've been, 46:52 "Connected with her husband 46:56 she may aid and be a blessing to him. 47:00 When the will and the way 47:02 are brought into the subjection." 47:05 If the will and the way are brought in subjection 47:07 "for the Spirit of God," listen 47:09 "there is no limit to do good that can be accomplished. 47:13 Man, get together men, women right if God is going to bless 47:16 and he just gonna bless our socks right out of us. 47:20 We need to follow what and be responsible for the role 47:23 that He has given us. 47:25 So I believe in this regards you have been reading 47:27 lot of things and I'm just touching just scratching 47:29 on lot of things that could be said. 47:31 We can go for as four or five more parts. 47:34 But I believe this with my whole heart 47:35 with all of said and all done. 47:37 Women are needed in the work. Their labor is valuable. 47:42 And I have said before they can do a work in families 47:44 that men just cannot do. 47:46 Some of us who are just not in touch with the lot of things. 47:50 There's a lot of needs in family. 47:52 A lot of women talk lot of things that go on. 47:57 And so really, the question then comes down to this. 48:01 Are we wiling each one of us willing to work in ministry 48:06 consistent to scripture, are we? 48:10 Well, godly women fulfill their roles 48:14 laid out in Scripture, remember before the fall 48:17 after fall reiterate the New Testament, 48:19 after the death, 48:20 right resurrection of Christ all still the same. 48:23 Nothing has changed. 48:28 Will men and women, will men and women 48:32 godly men and women fulfill their roles? 48:36 Will godly men take the place in the leadership roles 48:42 as God has ordained in headship. 48:47 When I say this we must not be driven by position 48:50 and you know well, I have this position here and-- 48:55 Not driven by self seeking, 48:59 not trying to moving our own direction 49:05 but I find this there are many, many examples of godly women 49:08 in scripture and I know you'll find those too. 49:11 When man failed, once again when they failed 49:14 or they wouldn't accept the challenge 49:16 they stepped in temporarily 49:19 and they were consistent with the guidelines of the Bible. 49:23 They didn't have an ambition you know to desire 49:26 to be ordained as an elder priest 49:28 or an apostle as an elder. 49:31 They wanted to fulfill what God had called them to do. 49:35 Some of you may call about that even in the advent movement 49:40 that the call you know 49:41 the Spirit of Prophecy for two men. 49:45 They were fearful and they rejected the call 49:47 and God call a woman into the office. 49:52 Not that she couldn't do it, not the woman can't do it 49:55 that's not the issue. 49:56 They preach well, they do this, they teach well. 49:58 That's not the issue. 49:59 They're not to have a position to be ordained 50:01 as head over the man. 50:03 Kind of interesting. 50:06 All of us we're nearing the end of time. 50:09 You know, don't we want to just to kind of yoke up with Christ. 50:11 Don't we want to do the right thing? 50:13 Don't we want even if we have done the wrong thing? 50:16 And you remember when we once get off track 50:19 it's very difficult to get back on. 50:22 Because once we get off we start to make it 50:24 bigger messes along the way 50:25 that makes it more difficult to get back in. 50:27 But you know what we're always be blessed if we'll say 50:29 "oh God, I'm sorry I got off track 50:31 and we need to get back on." 50:34 So how can this ordination of women and so on of this elders 50:36 and pastors be legitimate in one area and not in other? 50:40 Legitimate in North America but not around the world? 50:42 It's not legitimate number one from scripture 50:44 but see all of a sudden we're farther and farther off. 50:46 We need to comeback to God, comeback to His word. 50:49 We want the blessings of God. 50:52 Oh, all of us are never, never ever to claim a higher work, 50:57 higher position than that which God has assigned us. 51:01 Be sure He's assigned it. 51:03 That's why scripture is here we need to go this is what 51:05 this is the role that God said He wants you to play. 51:08 God has assigned it assigned to say in accordance 51:11 with His plan let's not as Galatians 1:7 51:16 provoked the gospel of Jesus Christ. 51:20 And somebody say, well, I never did that. 51:21 I would never. 51:22 No maybe you didn't have any intentions to do it 51:25 but we've to line up with the word 51:28 even though the study may just be 51:30 so troublesome to some people. 51:34 We can never go wrong by searching the Scripture 51:37 and finding the answers to our questions. 51:40 We can never go wrong, never go wrong 51:45 by the grace of God to submit ourselves 51:48 to the scriptures to come in line. 51:50 Come with harmony with movement 51:52 to continue down the right path. 51:55 Not the wrong path. The right path. 52:01 Solid theological study which began in Eden 52:09 it will serve to the end of time. 52:12 It does not I say again does not allow-- 52:15 because anybody is confused does not allowed 52:17 for women to serve in the leadership, 52:20 headship role of elder or pastor in the church. 52:25 Doesn't matter if you're some who are already and they are. 52:31 Bible does not sanction that. 52:33 And so we want to line up with the word don't we. 52:36 We must come to grips with it right now. 52:39 This is the most important topic. 52:45 We can't set aside the scriptures right now. 52:50 We've went so far down the road right now 52:52 what are we going to do. 52:53 We got to come back so that God can bless. 52:57 If we set this aside 52:58 and we don't come to grips with this 53:00 what are we going to do next? 53:02 What will happen next? 53:03 Well, we deviate from the truth. 53:05 And I know there's been lot of pressure from lot of people 53:07 in high positions because of their education 53:10 and because of their position and because 53:12 all they need to be they should be. 53:13 God says what needs to be and what not doesn't need to be. 53:17 Don't set aside the scripture. 53:22 We need to follow the Word of God. 53:27 Scripture reveals the will of God, does it not? 53:32 It must be the foundation of every decision that we make. 53:36 The Bible is its own interpreter. 53:38 One passage explains another line up on line. 53:43 And once again the ordination of women 53:45 as elders and pastors is unbiblical. 53:50 We want to ordain individuals right now we want to ordain 53:55 individual without regard to gender. 53:58 How sad. 54:00 God has the role of a woman. 54:02 He has the role of a man. 54:05 Sin came in, things changed. 54:08 And God put the man as head in the church 54:10 and head in the home as he is in the Lord. 54:15 But it's always drawn me to this movement as last minute 54:18 that we have has been the position proves all things. 54:22 Holdfast is that which is good? 54:24 And thus sayeth the Lord. 54:25 And I pray that yours as we go to Lord in prayer right now. 54:29 I drew me to this movement stick to scripture 54:33 regardless of popularly. 54:34 And people won't be popular and they want to do. 54:37 Let's commit to God right now as we pray 54:39 that we gonna follow His word whatever the cost maybe. 54:42 Our Father in heaven, we thank You for Your precious Word. 54:45 We pray now You'll bless us open hearts and our minds 54:47 help us to digest these things. 54:49 And as we digest and that we come up and we say 54:51 whatever the word says that's what we will do 54:53 by Your grace and strength. 54:54 And I thank You for in Jesus name, amen. 54:58 I know it's not an easy subject 55:00 and I know it's probably hurtful to many of us. 55:02 Never mind tensions but this subject 55:04 is like any other subject that want to come right down 55:06 to grips with what the Bible says 55:09 and then what I want to see is people willing 55:11 to make the changes because God has said. 55:14 Are you willing to fulfill the role 55:16 the plan that God has for you. 55:18 Oh, I know your today prayer about we love you 55:20 continue to call right then your support as we love you, 55:23 we will see you next time. 55:26 Hello and welcome back friends. 55:28 In closing I'd like to share another important 55:31 and pertinent quote as we close this study together. 55:35 It is found in Manuscript Releases number 2 and page 88. 55:40 "God's cause at this time is in special need 55:44 of men and women who possess Christ like qualifications 55:48 for service, executive ability, 55:50 and a large capacity for work who have a kind, warm, 55:54 sympathetic hearts sound common sense, 55:58 and unbiased judgment. 56:00 Who will carefully weigh matters before they approve 56:02 or condemn, and who can fearlessly say No, 56:06 or Yea and Amen. 56:08 Who, because they are sanctified by the Spirit of God 56:11 practice the words, 'All ye are brethren,' 56:15 striving constantly to uplift and restore fallen humanity." 56:21 Friends, find the balancing God's word 56:24 and in the Spirit of Prophecy that He has given to his church 56:28 for special guidance in these last days. 56:31 Don't be discouraged but be encouraged 56:34 that you both men and women have been called set apart 56:38 to proclaim the closing message of life 56:41 for a world in distress. 56:44 Our mission work is to start in the home first. 56:47 And then pray for God to open doors for you 56:51 to witness whatever He sees best for you to do so. 56:55 We certainly hope and indeed it is our prayer 56:58 that this sensitive issue has found a proper balance 57:01 in your minds as a result of this straightforward study. 57:06 I know that many of you would like to watch these messages 57:09 again and gain a greater retention, 57:12 a greater recall of what has been presented. 57:15 Therefore, this series entitled Women's Ordination 57:19 is being made available to you for a love gift of just $23 57:23 and more. 57:24 All you have to do is contact us by calling our ministry 57:27 here in the United States at area code 618-942-5044. 57:34 That's Central Standard Time or you may write 57:37 to Behold the Lamb Ministries, PO Box 2030, 57:40 Herrin, Illinois 62948. 57:43 Send us an email at 57:45 BeholdtheLambMinisteries @yahoo.com 57:48 or check us out on our website. 57:50 You may order from there as well, 57:52 it's www.Behold theLambMinisteries.com 57:57 Until next time friends, may our precious Lord 58:01 continue to richly bless you and yours. |
Revised 2014-12-17