Participants: Joy Swift, Cheri Peters
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000006
|
00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery,
00:12 I'm Cheri your host. 00:13 We are always hearing about the addict, what about the 00:16 people affected by their choices? 00:18 Come join us, we are going to look at how our life 00:22 changes by the choices of other people. 00:52 We have absolutely an incredible show today. 00:54 I would like the topic, because when I first got into 00:56 recovery I always thought of the addict. 00:59 I thought the person that was strung out, or gambling 01:03 problem, or financial problems, or workaholic, somebody 01:07 cheating on their wife, or whatever. 01:08 I never thought about the fallout from them. 01:12 I never thought about the people who actually have to 01:15 pick up the pieces of their lives because of somebody 01:17 else's choice and so we are going to cover that today. 01:20 First of all I want to introduce you to the people at the café. 01:23 We have Maritza, I want to thank you for joining us. 01:25 Bonnie, Connie, Joy, I love you. 01:28 We have Pam and Marcia and I want to just say welcome. 01:33 Thank you for joining us, I can't even say it's going 01:38 to be a blast, but we are going to go through 01:40 a lot and learn a lot. 01:42 Joy we are going to be doing an interview with you 01:44 and I want to thank you so much for joining us. 01:48 You have blessed me, and a lot of people know that 01:51 I have come from... my family were addicts and that I was 01:55 homeless by the age of 13 and one found Christ at 23. 01:58 I was illiterate, I was so afraid, I didn't know how to 02:02 trust anybody, I didn't know anything. 02:06 I didn't know how I was going to stand, I didn't know 02:09 how I was going to figure out how to act normal or be 02:12 normal or whatever. 02:14 During my recovery, and it had taken years to step up 02:18 and learn how to allow Christ to come into my life and 02:22 change things, somebody gave me a book you wrote. 02:26 I read this book and it gave me so much courage that 02:29 I thought, if she can get through what she got through, 02:33 I can stand too. 02:34 So I want you to know that you have blessed me and helped 02:39 me to stand up and I am so honored to have you here 02:41 today and we will hear your whole story. 02:43 But I want to talk about a few things before we get there. 02:46 I have gone into a ministry and the ministry has been 02:50 absolutely amazing, I work with meth addicts, I work with 02:54 people in prison, I work with people who have eating 02:59 disorders, gambling addictions, shopaholics, 03:03 self mutilator's and I work with some intense folks. 03:06 It doesn't scare me to go into those lives because I know 03:14 that God is bigger. I know that God can come in and 03:18 restore somebody almost like that if that is His plan 03:22 for that person is. 03:24 I go in with so much hope that we have a God that says, 03:26 I don't care where you come from, not that I don't care 03:29 in a way He has no sympathy for us, but I don't care 03:32 because I want to restore you. 03:34 Our theme text for Celebrating Life In Recovery is 03:38 Isaiah 57:18 and it says, I know all your stuff, 03:41 I know all your stuff and I will heal you anyway, 03:44 I will led you, I will guide you, I will comfort you. 03:47 It even says I will comfort those who mourn. 03:50 I really believe for myself as the addict, that He is 03:53 talking about our families, our spouses, our parents, 03:56 those that we have so trashed God said He will even step 04:00 in and comfort them as I bring restoration to everyone. 04:04 So I am so sure in those arenas and I started to work 04:08 with this woman, her name is Chris. 04:10 I love her, I didn't realize when I first met Chris she 04:15 had a wound on her leg. 04:16 A horrible looking thing, and I said Chris what happened? 04:21 She looked at me so serious and said they think it's 04:25 cancer, I said man it looks like cancer. 04:29 Because it just looked like it was infected, it looked 04:32 like there was definitely something, like a process 04:36 that was going on and it was really intense. 04:38 So about a week or so into our relationship she tells me 04:42 the truth, she was in the garage with a gun and she was 04:47 going to blow her head off. 04:48 She heard her children calling out her name and 04:53 she thought, what am I doing? 04:55 She pulled the gun down and as she pulled it down she 04:58 had already pulled the trigger and shot 04:59 herself in the leg. 05:00 She was so embarrassed about the whole thing that she 05:04 said I'm not going to tell anybody so this has still 05:07 got fragments and it and its festering and infected. 05:11 What she is telling people now rather than fess up is 05:14 that I have cancer. 05:16 I talked with her and said what's up, what is going on? 05:20 The story that I heard from her absolutely was the 05:25 saddest thing I ever heard. 05:27 She told me that she had a son Lance Michael. 05:29 Lance Michael was the love of her life, she couldn't 05:33 have kids and it was really difficult for her because 05:36 she wanted a family, and her husband, wanted a family and 05:39 they tried everything, they even looked into adoption. 05:42 They finally adopted a child and right after the adoption, 05:45 you have heard this before how somebody ends up pregnant. 05:47 They had adopted this little girl and she gets pregnant 05:50 and she's the best mom, the best mom. 05:54 She loves this kid, she and the adopted little girl just had 06:00 the best time and got into all the activities kids get 06:03 into, she was a soccer mom. 06:05 This kid was just beautiful and just beautiful little boy. 06:09 He started growing up and got on ski teams and did well. 06:13 As he was in school they found out that he had a learning 06:17 disability, right, he was dyslexic. 06:19 So he had real difficulty reading and that was okay 06:23 when he was in elementary school. 06:24 When he got into high school he was no longer okay. 06:27 He gets into high school and starts getting teased and 06:31 can't keep up with the other kids and it was so shameful 06:35 to him that he starts to hang out with the kids that were 06:38 doing meth, drinking and all that kind of stuff. 06:42 When he did the meth, he said I felt like a King. 06:46 I felt like I was no longer ashamed, I was no longer 06:49 the kid that couldn't learn, I just felt like a king. 06:53 He got strung out really fast and his mom said it was 06:56 almost like one day, one day she came to pick him up, 06:59 what happened? What happened to you? 07:02 Nothing she could do would make a difference. 07:06 He was swearing and he had never sworn before. 07:11 He was disrespectful, it was horrible and she said 07:15 I couldn't figure anything out. 07:17 I kept thinking something is wrong. 07:19 She said I took him to counselors, I took him all over 07:21 the place and people said you are overreacting. 07:25 This is a normal process, kids have to rebel. 07:28 They have to walk away and this is his way of cutting 07:31 the umbilical cord and they made her feel stupid. 07:34 So she tried to let go and this kid then starts 07:37 running away from home. 07:38 She finds out by somebody who calls her up and said, 07:41 Chris can I ask you something? 07:43 What is Lance Michael's drug of choice? 07:47 She said what? What is his drug of choice do you think? 07:54 Tylenol? So she was ignorant and I mean that, I love her 08:02 and she had no idea what they were saying. 08:04 The person said no I think he is doing meth. 08:07 She said what? You think he is doing meth what is that? 08:10 What are you talking about? 08:11 She ends up going around to different people saying what is 08:16 meth, what do I look for, and what are the signs? 08:19 She finds a detective that is willing to sit down, from 08:22 narcotics, that was willing to sit down and talk with her. 08:25 This guy is amazing, he says I will give you some 08:28 information on what is meth. 08:30 The behavioral changes and what will happen with your 08:32 children, or anybody listening. 08:34 Their friends change, they're great start dropping, 08:37 they are more air trouble and will become more 08:39 disrespectful and start disconnecting from your family. 08:42 Those types of things and he starts talking to her 08:44 about those becoming behavioral changes and she is like, 08:47 how could I missed that? How could I have missed that? 08:50 So the detective said who is your son? 08:54 Lance Chatman she said. Lance is your son? 08:58 She said, oh do you know Lance? 09:01 She's thinking all how sweet is that, he knows my son. 09:06 He said yes, he is one of the biggest dealers in the area. 09:10 We have been watching him for a long time. 09:13 Now she is totally crushed, totally crushed. 09:16 She finds out that they had been watching him for a long 09:19 time and this guy slips and tells her where he is. 09:23 She goes and gets her nails done that day. 09:27 The beautician says do you know anybody that wants a gun? 09:32 She said nobody has ever asked that to me in my life. 09:36 In my life and she said no, that's crazy. 09:43 She is a soccer mom, Chris was going to be a nun in her 09:47 teens, she was in school, a convent or whatever. 09:51 It's nun-material, she was in something and she was 09:54 going to be a nun so she was like I don't even know 09:57 what you're talking about. 09:59 All of a sudden as she's getting her nails and hands done 10:02 she says you know how much is the gun anyway? 10:08 $25, she said $25,000 for a gun? No 25 bucks! 10:14 25 bucks? She said I want a gun and she buys this gun. 10:19 She said it looked like a little Barbie gun and she buys 10:23 it, takes it with her to the car and then she decides I'm 10:28 going to go find him. 10:29 I'm going to go find him, I'm going to find my son and 10:33 bring him home, she goes to the drug house with her gun 10:36 and calls this undercover narcotic drug officer and says, 10:40 I'm on my way to get Lance. 10:41 He says Chris don't I'm already there, and she gets out 10:46 of the car and walks up to the drug house. 10:50 She said she opened the door and it wasn't locked. 10:53 Like she couldn't believe it, if you're selling narcotics 10:56 wouldn't you lock the door? But it wasn't locked. 10:58 She opens the door and the guy who shot Lance up for 11:01 the first time, his name was Tony was sitting 11:04 there in a chair. 11:06 She pulled the gun up and said I want my son. 11:10 He said chill out Mama. She said I want my son. 11:15 And she went up and shoved the gun in his mouth and said, 11:19 I want my son, this is a soccer mom. 11:20 This is somebody that has never, ever even had violent 11:25 rages like that and she is in a rage. 11:28 She knows that if this guy says one more thing I will kill 11:31 you and all the sudden Lance comes out of the back room. 11:34 Mom, what are you doing? They end up leaving quickly. 11:38 She backs out thinking that she doesn't back out with 11:41 this gun she is going to be killed. 11:43 Backs out and gets into the car and Lance gets the gun 11:46 from her and found that she never even put the clip in. 11:48 She said what is a clip? Wow mom! 11:54 She's telling me the story and I'm thinking how crazy. 11:58 She gets Lance home, he is not only sick, he's withdrawn 12:00 and she puts him in treatments and tries to learn as 12:03 much as she can about addiction. 12:05 I beg anybody, any of you or anybody listening to me, 12:09 if you have a child that is strung out and you think is 12:14 acting out or using drugs or getting caught up in 12:16 an addiction, educate yourself. 12:18 Educate yourself, and if you don't know where to go, 12:21 call us, e-mail us and we will send you some information. 12:25 There was so much that she had to learn. 12:28 When Lance gets out of treatment she said she found out 12:31 that you need to occupy your time with something right 12:33 now, do you want to do a hobby? 12:35 He said yes. She said what would you like to do? 12:39 He said I would like to take glassblowing classes. 12:43 I don't know if anybody knows anything about meth or 12:46 crack, but you make your own pipes with glass. 12:50 So he wanted to make his own meth pipes and his mom 12:54 paid for the glassblowing classes that he took in order 12:58 to make these pipes. 12:59 She didn't even know that was what he was making. 13:03 As an addict I thought that is the stupidest story. 13:06 I said you didn't even know? She said I had no idea. 13:09 He would throw pipe away and I would pull it out and say 13:12 would say, Lance this looks cute, you can fix this up. 13:15 She had no idea, Lance comes home and he is sick and 13:18 he is having a horrible time. 13:20 She took him to the doctor and the doctor said, 13:22 you know what? We are going to have to give this boy 13:26 a new heart, he has so destroyed his heart. 13:29 He is 17 years old, and he is so sick that his heart is 13:33 so swollen, so damaged that there is no possibility of 13:37 fixing that and he ends up on a heart transplant list. 13:41 He ends up in the hospital with IVs and this 13:44 kid is taking the IVs out of his arms and is taking off 13:48 to use and then comes back to the hospital and 13:51 he is lost in his addiction. 13:53 His mother is begging them, don't take him off the 13:55 heart transplant list, don't take him off. 13:59 Please, I beg you in she is so afraid, afraid. 14:02 For the next couple of years she is in an out of 14:05 hospitals, in and out of treatment, trying to keep him 14:08 all the heart transplant list so that he is a candidate 14:13 for a new heart and he turns 21 and says mom I have to 14:17 have you take me off this list. 14:19 I cannot stop my addiction, and I can't accept someone 14:22 else's heart and do the same thing to someone else's 14:25 heart that I did to my heart, take me off. 14:27 He died shortly after that. 14:29 He died coming back to Christ, coming back to his mom and 14:35 begging her forgiveness, even telling her mom everything 14:41 you said was right, I am so sorry. 14:43 She said I'm holding this kid and he was 6'1" and lost 14:47 tons of pounds, down to 90 pounds. 14:50 Sick and dying and she said I'm holding him knowing 14:54 that I cannot do a thing, he is dying. 14:57 Coming back to Christ, coming back to his family. 14:59 She said when the coroner came in and zipped up the bag 15:04 they had to put him in a black bag. 15:06 She did not let him for two hours, you cannot put 15:09 him in that bag, this is my son. 15:12 He said you know it is a law, we can't transport bodies 15:15 without doing this. 15:17 So anyhow they put this, Lance Michael in the bag and 15:21 she said all I heard was the zipper to start 15:24 to zip around him and she started screaming. 15:26 My son is afraid of the dark, you cannot cover his face. 15:31 And she just cried, you cannot cover his face. 15:34 They finally said, you know it is against the law for us 15:39 to take him out of here without being covered. 15:41 She said, then you are not taking him, and it took them 15:44 hours to finally say to her okay we will take him out 15:49 not covered and it took her years to stand up again. 15:53 To stand up again and all the junk that is in her life 15:58 now, she said I thought just kill me. 16:01 This boy was someone I loved and now people talk about 16:07 him as if he is just an addict. 16:09 They want to forget him, now she's still set the table 16:13 for him, I can't forget him. 16:15 I don't want people to forget him at meals, or Christmas 16:18 or any of that and her whole life started to fall apart. 16:22 Her relationship with her husband definitely, her other 16:25 son at the time had cancer so she was dealing with that. 16:28 She was dealing with so many different things she said, 16:31 I won't be able to survive it. 16:32 I will not be able to survive this and this show 16:35 we are talking about those kind of things and what 16:38 happens when other people's choices come in like 16:42 a storm and play havoc on your entire life. 16:45 You think my world will ever look the same? 16:49 One of the things that I know about God is even in those 16:53 situations, God says, if you have faith I promise you 16:58 that I will come in. 17:00 I'm not going to come in and say it was all good, or that 17:03 it was okay that happened to Lance, it's not okay. 17:07 It was not okay but I will come in and give you 17:10 your life back again. 17:12 You'll stand again and enjoy. 17:13 And we are going to talk about that when we come back. 17:15 Joy you are going to come up and share your story. 17:17 I just want to say thank you for that and I want to tell 17:20 you to stay tuned because you will be so blessed by this. 17:24 I know right now it sounds a little sad but I promise 17:27 you that God turns things around, it's unbelievable. 17:31 So stay tuned! Celebrating Life In Recovery. 17:38 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book 17:41 called 'Steps To Christ'. 17:42 Each program in this series is based on a different 17:45 chapter showing you how to become a Christian and 17:47 gain victory over your addictions. 17:49 'Steps To Christ' is our gift to you free of charge. 17:53 Just call us at: 18:19 Welcome back, I want to talk about a Bible story that 18:23 I want to refer to Matthew 9:6, a paralytic, a guy that 18:27 was paralyzed and this guy was just a mess. 18:31 Christ came up to him and one of the things He said to him 18:35 do you believe that I can make you well? 18:38 Do you believe that I can heal you? 18:40 And he said yes, so Jesus says that He forgives him and 18:46 tells him to stand up and walk. 18:48 So for an addict, I really believe for Lance Michael 18:51 or myself an addict we really have to have faith and 18:54 accept the fact that God can heal us, forgive us, 18:58 and our sins are removed the Bible says as far as way 19:02 as the east to the west. 19:04 God doesn't even look at our sins anymore, 19:06 we are created new as it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17. 19:10 I'm new in Christ, I have a new mind and a new heart. 19:14 In the story of the demoniac and in his craziness filled 19:17 with a thousand demons God restores him to his right mind. 19:21 All that takes faith and I have to accept those gifts. 19:26 Right? But with Chris, Lance Michael's mother, Lance 19:29 got it, he accepted that and came back to Christ. 19:33 As he died she really had to stand up. 19:36 Lance before he died said, mom, tell people what killed 19:40 me, tell children and their parents what killed me. 19:43 And please don't let them get lost in drugs, 19:46 get lost in all that. 19:47 So Chris when she finally stood on her feet, when God 19:50 finally started to stand her on her feet she went out 19:53 and spoke to kids all over the world. 19:56 Internationally she has spoke families about drugs and 19:59 the dangers of not being educated in those things, there 20:03 there has been healing that is unbelievable, but I found 20:06 out Joy, I want to say first of all thank you for joining 20:09 me and I love you. - thank you! 20:12 I found out while watching her is that her healing 20:17 started when she was able to with the same faith, same 20:21 acceptance realize that God had to restore her. 20:26 So I want to first of all for you tell us about 20:31 who you are and where you came from and what started 20:36 this journey for you? 20:38 Well I grew up in the Kansas City area. 20:41 I grew up in a home that was not really a church going 20:44 home at all so I didn't know anything about God. 20:48 When I got married and started having kids and I was 20:52 really focused on my family. 20:54 My husband and I had five children ranging in age from 20:57 17 months to 17 years. 21:00 We left the Kansas City area and went to the Lake of 21:03 the Ozarks region in Missouri. 21:05 We bought a little two-bedroom cabin on an acre of 21:07 ground on the Lake and settled ourselves in. 21:10 We were so focused in our own lives that we weren't 21:13 really focused on God at all until tragedy struck 21:17 for our own family. 21:18 Our oldest daughter was stricken with ovarian cancer. 21:21 She was 17. - 17, that is so young. 21:25 Yes and they did a complete hysterectomy and then found 21:29 a second tumor against her spine and a third in her neck. 21:32 They began chemotherapy to try to kill the cancer 21:35 before it killed her but they didn't give us any 21:38 hope for her survival. 21:39 You know Joy, I don't even know how I would handle 21:43 something like that, because I have one child and 21:47 I think I am so blessed that nothing has happened to her 21:51 and I think how do you handle when you were told that she 21:54 had cancer, emotionally did you go numb? 21:58 What were you supposed to do? 22:00 Pretty much shocked at first, we didn't want to accept it 22:03 and had several weeks to finally come to grips and go 22:07 to the hospital every other day and spend time with her. 22:10 The hospital was 100 miles away so we couldn't get there 22:14 everyday, but to see the progress as she diminish before 22:18 our eyes and knew that the life was draining out of her 22:22 and we were helpless to stop the flow. 22:24 So day by day you come to accept the fact that you are 22:29 probably going to lose one of your children. 22:31 So we began to cling to the four healthy ones to try 22:34 and gain the strength that we needed to do with the fact 22:37 that we were going to lose Stephanie. 22:40 - I can't imagine, I just can't imagine. 22:42 Then I know that during that time is when your whole 22:47 life was rocked even more so than that. - right! 22:51 In one night we left our four healthy children to go 22:56 out for the evening. 22:57 We went to play bingo at the American Legion and we left 23:00 four healthy children home alone. 23:02 Steve was 14, Greg was 12, Tonya was 3 and Stacy was 17 23:07 months and while we were gone a 14-year-old neighbor boy 23:13 came in and shot and killed all four of them. 23:15 I can't, how, how did you come home? 23:23 You must've came home to chaos? 23:26 We came home to police cars and ambulances, what we didn't 23:30 know was that Stephanie had called a friend of hers, 23:32 the one in the hospital and said I can come home for the 23:35 weekend, we didn't have a telephone so she had asked her 23:38 friend to please go to her house and tell dad I can come 23:41 home for the weekend, come early in the morning. 23:44 This Thursday night, Debbie pulled into the driveway. 23:47 She is the one that discovered the kids, so by the time 23:51 we got home, police cars and ambulances were everywhere 23:54 and they would not let us in. 23:56 We were actually taken to the police station that night 23:59 and endured six hours - they wouldn't let you in the 24:02 household or let you come near? 24:03 I was never in my house ever again, I was never allowed 24:06 in again, but we were put in a patrol car and taken to 24:09 the police station and endured seven hours of 24:12 interrogations, strip searches because we were the 24:17 suspects in the murders. 24:19 So you are trying to adjust in your head what happened. 24:22 Right! - I need to go see my children and 24:25 they're asking you questions. 24:27 I needed to see the kids to face the reality. 24:29 I am a person that needs to get things done, George just 24:33 went into shock immediately, basically shut down. 24:37 I needed to get things done, I needed to go into the 24:40 house, I needed to make sure my kids were okay. 24:42 I needed to see the bodies to accept the reality and 24:45 I was not given that option. 24:47 Instead I was pulled away and everything I needed for 24:51 my healing to accept and begin to heal right away 24:54 was taken away from me. 24:57 I can even imagine how I would take my next breath. 25:01 How do you take your next breath? How do you, for one, 25:05 convince somebody I didn't do it? 25:07 What, are you crazy? 25:09 While my husband was a police officer so he knew what 25:12 was going on, I was quite defiant. 25:15 I was a rebellious teen when I was a kid so that came out. 25:19 I was quite defiant during the interrogations, I knew 25:22 I hadn't done it and resented that I couldn't get back to 25:24 the House and be with the kids when they brought them out. 25:28 So it was the anger that kept me strong, I determined that 25:31 I would stay angry so that my strength would be strong 25:35 enough to keep me on my feet. 25:37 So it was that anger that kept me strong 25:41 during that first day. 25:43 I am never at a loss for words and I feel absolutely 25:48 at a loss for words, I don't even know, I can't imagine 25:54 what your next steps are I can't imagine even what you said to 25:58 your husband when he said to you, how does anybody step 26:03 out and say okay now what happened? 26:05 You had to find out what happened, how did they find 26:09 out that it was this kid? 26:11 They had gone to the junior high school to interview 26:15 students that went to school our boys and in doing so 26:18 there were two 8th-grade boys came forward and said 26:21 we know who did it? 26:22 He has been bragging for two weeks about how he plans 26:25 to kill the Swift family and was quoted this morning 26:27 at school saying I can't wait to open fire on them. 26:31 They gave his name Billy Dyer, so the police went to 26:35 his house to take him into custody. 26:37 He had also mentioned that there was an older guy named 26:40 Ray that was going to help him. 26:42 When the police went to Billy's house to take him into 26:45 custody, a 20-year-old name Ray Richardson Jr. was there, 26:48 so they took him in for questioning as well. 26:50 So did they find out why was it that he had this vendetta 26:53 why was it that he had focused on your family? 26:56 Well it would be a long, long time before 26:59 we found that out. 27:00 We found out it was Billy Dyer, it was hard for me. 27:02 - because it was your neighbor. 27:04 He was my neighbor and I knew he was troubled teen and 27:06 I vowed that I would be the person that would be there 27:09 for him, I would listen to him. 27:10 He spent the night at our house, we took him to the 27:13 movies with the boys just the night before he came to 27:16 kill the kids but since George and I was not going out 27:19 he asked if the boys could go to the movies and 27:22 I took three boys to the movies and then he came in to 27:25 kill the kids the next day. 27:26 He had come at least four times that we know of to kill 27:30 the kids but if George and I were home he would call it 27:33 off until another time. 27:35 But we found out later he had a juvenile record in two 27:38 states, he had tried to kill 2 thirteen-year-old boys 27:41 the year before with a poisoned blowgun. 27:44 While he was in jail awaiting trial charged with four 27:46 counts of capital murder in the death of our children 27:50 he tried to electrocute a guard and poison an inmate. 27:54 So we found out many years later, when he was being 27:58 interviewed by a reporter, he said I once saw George 28:01 wake up Greg just tell him that he loved him. 28:04 I was jealous because the family materially didn't 28:07 have anything, but they had love. 28:10 And my family didn't have that and I wanted to take 28:12 it away from them. 28:14 So that is why he wanted to kill them. 28:16 His original plan was to kill the kids, stay in the 28:19 house, wait and ambush George and I and kill us. 28:22 Burn the house down and go on a killing spree with a 28:26 whole bunch of people until he got caught. 28:28 And possibly kill himself? 28:30 I don't think he ever talked about killing himself. 28:33 That wasn't there for him. 28:36 With finding those kind of things out, with having not 28:42 only the shock of having this horrible thing happened to 28:46 your family but somebody you know, somebody that was in 28:50 your home, and in your life, that has got to be, 28:54 were you torn emotionally in ever single direction? 28:57 It was a betrayal, it was an absolute betrayal because 29:00 while all the other neighbors didn't trust Billy, even 29:03 George wanted to keep him away, I saw a kid that needed 29:06 somebody to care and if I gave him something to live up 29:10 to he would live up to it. 29:12 I thought that my family would be a positive influence 29:14 on Billy and instead he repaid my kindness. 29:17 As soon as I found out it was Billy that killed the kids 29:21 instead of being angry I felt betrayal because I had 29:25 really cared about him. - and still did. - still did. 29:29 And I still do. 29:30 To me I can still see that in your eyes is that you know 29:33 I wanted you to succeed. - yeah I truly did. 29:36 I welcomed him into my home and into my heart. 29:39 How did you get to a point where you could actually, 29:43 remember I talked about Chris where she was in the garage 29:46 saying I'm going to kill myself, I cannot do this. 29:49 Did you or feel that way, that I cannot survive this? 29:52 Within 24 hours of losing the kids I was in a motel room 29:55 and finally broke down and realized that my strength and 29:59 my anger was not enough, I could not do this. 30:02 So for the first time in my life I called out to God. 30:06 I told Him I was not strong enough to handle this. 30:10 I could not do this. - this is not something I can do. 30:13 No and He promised to give me His strength. 30:16 It was in that room that a voice came to me and He said 30:20 you have not lost them, you are only separated from them 30:23 for a little while. 30:25 The answers you seek I will show you, it has all been 30:27 taking care of, it has all been written down. 30:30 So I knew my answers were in the Bible, but then I had 30:34 to from that point on start searching it to try to find 30:37 the answers that would answer it has all 30:42 been taken care of. 30:43 Even with that voice and hearing God, I believe God moves 30:48 in during those times when we beg Him that I can't do 30:52 this and hearing Him say you will see them again, 30:56 this is not over and hearing that. 30:58 But you didn't have a Bible, you didn't have 31:01 a relationship. - no foundation at all! 31:03 I really didn't, the only foundation I had was that God 31:06 was suppose to be all loving and merciful and as such He could 31:10 not have possibly want my kids to die this way. 31:12 So I never blamed Him but I couldn't accept the reality 31:17 and my cleric personality said no this cannot be the end. 31:21 I cannot accept this as the final into this thing. 31:29 I've got to have my kids back. 31:30 Thus began the search to find out how 31:34 I could get my kids back. 31:36 Tell us a little bit about the search, because that is 31:40 amazing to me, did you end up finding somebody to teach 31:44 you? Did you just go out and grab the Word of God? 31:46 I ask questions of everybody I could think of. 31:49 I tried to find them in the Bible, but like every other 31:52 book I have read I started on page 1 and I wasn't finding 31:56 it, asked ministers, pastors, priests, friends, everybody 32:00 had a different answer and it was not coming together. 32:04 It was actually my little sister who was also searching 32:07 for the same answers and she started Bible study through 32:11 Voice of Prophecy and she found the answers that I had 32:14 been looking for. 32:16 She came in shared those answers with me and 32:18 I started those same Bible studies guides and the answers 32:21 were there. It opened up the Bible to were it showed me 32:24 where the answers were in the Scriptures and it all came 32:28 together and I had a full picture. 32:30 So I'm going to ask you to share some of those because 32:33 one of those things that Chris had to find, the same as 32:37 you, where is my son? What is going to happen? 32:41 Tell us about how you found that, what that did for you? 32:44 So many people have different answers. 32:48 My mom was into reincarnation and the priest tells me 32:51 that Tonya and Stacy are in limbo because I didn't have 32:54 them baptized and I didn't know who in the world 32:57 took care of them there. 32:58 Greg, Steven and Stephen's death Stephanie died of cancer 33:01 20 days after the murders of the other four 33:03 so we lost all five. 33:06 So they are telling me, Steven, Stephen and Greg are in 33:09 heaven but Tonya and Stacy are in limbo and I did know 33:12 who took care of them there and I was really counting on 33:15 the three older ones to take care of the little ones 33:17 because I didn't know God well enough to know to trust that 33:21 He could take care of them for me. 33:24 So is the answers began to come together and I realized 33:27 the living know they shall die but the dead know not 33:31 anything, they were simply a sleep in the grave and 33:34 that Jesus was coming back to take us home. 33:37 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 are the most precious verses 33:42 in the world. 33:44 When they were pointed out to me I have clung to those 33:47 as my hope because it says, "for the Lord Himself shall 33:50 "descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an 33:53 "arch Angel and the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ 33:57 "shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain 34:00 "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to 34:04 "meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the 34:08 "Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. " 34:11 That became my comfort and my hope, that is how 34:16 He had taken care of it, 34:17 He was coming back in the clouds and He had promised me 34:20 we would be together again and I finally understood what 34:22 that meant and how it was going to take place. 34:25 - You will survive with that. - I will make it. 34:27 Of course if someone had told me 30 years ago I would 34:30 still be waiting, I think I probably would have just died. 34:33 But through this journey, and learning to trust in God 34:37 an admittedly I first came to God with an alterative 34:40 motive, I want the kids back. 34:42 I love my kids, I don't really know you God, I love my 34:47 kids and I need to be with my kids and I will jump through 34:49 whatever hoop it will takes. 34:51 As I began my journey I fell in love with God. 34:55 I fell in love with my Savior and now I want to go and 34:58 be a part of that kingdom and I want to be a victory in 35:02 His kingdom because of Him, my relationship with Him. 35:05 And the added blessing is the reuniting with your children. 35:09 Absolutely, absolutely I can't wait to introduce you to 35:13 them. - you know, when you said that I wanted to jump 35:17 up and kiss you on the face. 35:18 You ended up, and for some people know this and some 35:23 people don't, but you ended up writing a book in your 35:27 own healing, They Are All Dead Aren't They? 35:29 As I came off the streets, a drug addict, illiterate, 35:35 trying to figure out how I was going to survive. 35:38 I got a hold of that book, somebody had given it to me. 35:41 I remember thinking I'm not going to survive my own 35:44 journey and I watched with God did in your life and it 35:48 gave me hope, it stood me up. 35:50 I thought if Joy could do this, if she could do that 35:53 with all this I am going to hold on to that same God 35:57 who stands me up. Oh He gets all the credit. 35:59 Oh man, Oh man, and I know that you eventually even 36:06 reached out to Billy. 36:09 It took a long time, as I began to study the Scriptures 36:13 and get this foundation and this hope and cleaning to the 36:17 promises that God has for us this issue of 36:20 forgiveness came up. 36:22 He said when you stand praying if you have anything 36:25 against anybody, forgive them. 36:27 For if you do not forgive them, your Father in heaven 36:30 can't forgive you. 36:31 You know when you said, even saying that I know for 36:34 a lot of people, even kids that have been molested 36:36 say how do I forgive? 36:37 People who have had some, it was hard for me when 36:42 I first heard your story it was hard for me to imagine 36:46 how I was going to forgive him, and it wasn't my tragedy. 36:50 So when some body is hit, slammed with something when 36:54 you first hear that is there any part of you that 36:57 says it is even possible? 36:59 I don't think that human level it is possible, in fact 37:02 if we try to forgive on the human level than we look at 37:06 the person has basically a namby-pamby person that 37:09 obviously doesn't have any feelings, that is not me. 37:12 I'm this angry go-getter choleric kind of person 37:15 that has to solve problems. 37:17 - you took my children. - right, you betrayed me 37:20 and I never did anything to hurt you. 37:21 You had no motive whatsoever and I flat could not 37:25 in fact I dreamed of getting into the cell and I did not 37:28 want a gun, I wanted a chain to beat him to death. 37:32 That was my justice and so as I began to deal with it and 37:36 I began to grow spiritually it was actually finding out 37:40 what prison ministries was doing and the fact that there 37:44 were actually inmates had truly been transformed, 37:48 truly converted to Christ and they really were sorry 37:51 for what they had done. 37:53 That made me start thinking is Billy sorry? 37:57 Is Billy sorry for what he did? 37:59 Even if he is he can't change what happened, he cannot 38:03 bring the kids back and so even life in prison is actually 38:07 fugal because it isn't going to atone for what he did. 38:10 So it got back down to that hopeless, what point is that 38:14 whether he is sorry you're not? 38:15 But this forgiveness issue kept getting thrown back into 38:18 my path, God does that because He's building our 38:21 characters, He's prepared a place for us and the 38:24 Holy Spirit is preparing us for the place. 38:26 He wants free of all that. - He does. 38:28 While I looked at it as some thing I had to do and I didn't 38:33 want to do, when I began to see the full big picture, 38:37 I realize this forgiveness was actually a gift for me. 38:41 I realize that as a parent, as much as I love each of 38:44 my kids there isn't anything that my kids could do that 38:47 would ever make me stop loving them. 38:49 I may hate what they do but I will always love my kids. 38:53 When I realize that if I am a human state can feel that 38:56 way, how much more does God feel about His kids? 38:59 - exactly every one of them. 39:01 God's kids pull that trigger that night and He hated 39:04 what they did, but He didn't hate them. 39:07 Christ died on the cross for them too and it was all 39:11 taken care of for them too. 39:14 So that is what made it turnaround, if they are His kids 39:18 and I am His daughter, then we are brothers and sisters 39:21 in Christ and there is no room for sibling rivalry in 39:25 God's world, so I had to love my brother in Christ 39:29 as much as God loves me. 39:31 So finally after 11 years I went to the prison. 39:35 - did you say even God You have to pour that into me? 39:38 Oh I did, I finally dropped to my knees and said You 39:42 will have to give me a perspective that I can 39:44 understand because I can't do this. 39:46 The lessons just kept getting thrown in my path to where 39:50 I could no longer dodge it, I had to confront the issue. 39:54 It became a part of who you are. 39:55 Not what you did but it was who you are. 39:58 What happen when you came down to see him? 40:00 Basically I told him that I hated what he did, I would 40:05 always hate what he did, but I didn't hate him. 40:08 That God loved him and wanted him in the kingdom and if 40:10 God wanted him in the kingdom so did I. 40:12 I would wept, how did he respond? 40:15 I think it really confused him more than anything. 40:18 He really didn't know what to say, and I left him a copy 40:21 of my book, They Are All Dead Aren't They? 40:23 I wanted him to know how serious this was and what the 40:27 impact was of this crime. 40:29 That this choice to forgive him had not been a light 40:34 and easy thing to do at all. 40:35 It had taken me 11 years to get here and in fact 40:38 I wouldn't even have talked about it for 40:40 a full year afterwards. 40:41 I did want people to think I was as incredible person 40:44 because I was so able to go and forgive him. 40:49 Even putting myself in his place, being able to say for 40:54 you to go in and for him to look at you in the face, 40:59 I can't even imagine any of that. 41:00 I can't even imagine when you first walk in and saw him, 41:04 was there any thing, did God change you by that time 41:07 that you literally could look at him and love? 41:10 I definitely could, more than anything and I even told him 41:14 this that I knew I was going to be with my children again 41:18 someday, I had that absolute assurance. 41:20 But more than anything in the world when Jesus comes in 41:23 the clouds, I want to look over and see him and Ray coming 41:26 to because I will know that nobody was lost in this 41:30 tragedy, that every one of us was one. 41:33 Satan didn't win here! - exactly, he is the only one 41:36 we want to lose in this whole battle. 41:39 You know you guys have been listening to this story, 41:42 and you've heard what Joy had to say, and I had 41:46 to say about faith and acceptance. 41:48 Accepting the fact that God, I have a process that God 41:52 is going to restore me after I'd been hit with this. 41:55 Does anyone want to ask her anything? 41:57 Marcia do you have a question? 41:58 Well yes joy, if you have forgiven him do you wish him 42:02 to remain in prison? 42:04 That is something I have struggled with for a long time 42:07 because before I forgave him I knew beyond a shadow of a 42:10 doubt I wanted him to stay in prison. 42:11 I wanted him to serve the consequences of his time and 42:14 my heart was still very, very confused. 42:17 I didn't know how to feel about Billy. 42:19 After I really studied out this whole issue of forgiveness, 42:23 and after I went to forgive him, 42:25 he wrote a letter and said that he was sorry for what 42:29 he had done and he offered 42:30 to close his profile indefinitely if that would help 42:33 George and I to heal. 42:34 I wrote back to him and told him I doubt it that I would 42:38 ever be ready for his release and if he was truly sorry 42:42 for what he did he would not seek 42:44 an early release from prison walls. 42:47 Rather he would seek the one would someday come to 42:50 release us all, I wait my own prison for that day. 42:53 Well at the time I didn't realize that it could be 42:56 released for my own prison and quit being a victim 42:58 and start being a victor instead. 43:00 But that was the answer at the time, but the one 43:03 thing that I've come to realize is that I do fight his 43:05 release, but parole board doesn't want him out. 43:08 They still consider him to be a threat to society and 43:12 they do believe because he's been in prison since 43:15 he was 15 years old, it is the only life that he knows. 43:19 There is a concern that he has been institutionalized, 43:22 he admits it himself, he is afraid to get out and 43:24 he doesn't know how to function in the outside world. 43:27 He could very well commit another crime 43:29 just to get back in. 43:30 But from a scriptural standpoint, if I forgive him 43:34 should I fling the doors open and say no 43:36 you have done your time. 43:38 And what I came to realize was that even though we seek 43:42 forgiveness and we gain forgiveness through Christ, 43:45 it does not relieve us of the consequences of our actions 43:49 here on this earth. 43:51 As Christ was hanging on the cross there were two thieves 43:54 were one either side of Him. 43:55 One sought forgiveness and Christ promised him the kingdom. 44:00 Yet Christ, the Savior hanging on the cross beside him, 44:05 did not relieve him of his cross. 44:08 He suffered the consequences of his sin on this earth. 44:12 He died on that cross and yet he has eternal life. 44:16 It is a promise that Christ gave him. 44:18 He will be resurrected. - absolutely and so 44:21 I can demand justice for the crime. 44:24 There are consequences to our actions and his consequence 44:28 is two life terms and that was a plea bargain. 44:32 The consequences of his actions for me is that I have to live 44:35 this life without my children and grandchildren they would 44:38 have had, he has altered history and I am the innocent 44:41 victim of that and so are my children. 44:44 They lost their lives. 44:45 Those are the consequences of the sin, but God can take 44:48 everything that is all wrong and make it all right again. 44:52 But we will only see that culmination in the last day. 44:57 That is an incredible way to look at all this mess. 45:02 To see that God has truly came in and brought healing 45:06 to everyone. Connie you have a question. 45:09 Yes, actually first I want to comment that really it is 45:12 such a blessing your testimony and how you are able to 45:16 help other people also. 45:18 Through going through what you have been through in the 45:20 way that you look at things and how you have clung to 45:24 Lord to get you through it, it is an amazing testimony 45:27 and I really appreciated it. 45:28 But my question is, in regard to your relationship with 45:32 your husband I am going to guess that throughout this 45:36 trauma it put quite a strain on it. 45:40 I know initially you said you know that your anger and 45:43 within their first 24 hours in search of answers in the 45:46 Bible, but initially you said he shut down. 45:49 So I'm wondering how did that play out in your relationship? 45:53 Well not knowing anything about grief recovery back then 45:56 because it was a completely foreign territory to me, 46:00 I didn't realize that our different personalities and our 46:03 genders and the losses that we experienced in our previous 46:06 actually affects how we grieve, so I had to begin to study that 46:13 out to understand why he doesn't grieve like me. 46:16 I realize we each have needs for our own healing and 46:20 we have got to exercise those things. 46:22 I needed to see the kids, that was something that was 46:26 important to me, I need to do things and he did not. 46:29 I needed to go to the prison and sit down 46:33 and talk to Billy, he did not. 46:35 There were things that I needed to do that he did not 46:38 need to do, he spent a lot of time at the funeral home, 46:41 at the grave sites that first year. 46:44 He would actually climb the fence at night when the gates 46:47 were closed and just go in and sit with the kids. 46:50 That's what he needed for his healing. 46:52 I went ahead of him because I need to get things done in 46:57 studying the Scriptures and he was way far behind, it was 47:01 like it almost felt like it first that at the beginning 47:04 of that search that Scriptures were trying to take 47:07 me away from him and he would lose again. 47:11 I was the only thing he had left, so he would lose 47:15 it all over again and it took quite a bit a time where 47:18 it took me five years to find these answers and put it 47:22 all together through prayer, it took 10 years for him. 47:25 You know I love the way you even start to introduce that 47:28 and then it is okay that every body has the their different 47:32 styles and to be able to give people permission to grieve. 47:36 How they need to grieve, I'm not going to come in and say 47:41 you have to grieve just like me, even though that's a 47:43 learned thing the acceptance that God is going to actually 47:47 come in and give you back a sense of joy in your life is 47:51 that takes a long time with this kind of tragedy. 47:53 It does. Are there any other questions? 47:56 I have a question, during the time period that 48:00 you were suffering, did you blame yourself because 48:05 the children were by themselves? 48:07 Did you begin to see yourself as a person that did the 48:14 wrong thing as a mom for leaving them alone? 48:17 Or for inviting this kid in the first place? 48:20 Well I found out many years later that guilt and blame 48:23 are two classic parts of grieving. 48:27 So even when there is no reason to feel guilty, 48:30 or to blame yourself you do it anyway. 48:32 In this particular situation George gone to the 48:37 hospital the night before to spend time with Stephanie 48:40 and I was left alone with the four healthy children. 48:43 There was an American Legion meeting that night, 48:46 a woman's auxiliary meeting and I wanted to go. 48:48 I was a member of the women's auxiliary, but something 48:52 inside of me said don't go and no sooner did that happen 48:56 and Billy was at the door and he had come to kill the 49:00 kids that night but because I was home he went back out 49:03 and told Ray I can't do the parents are home. 49:06 Why I did not have that feeling the second night, 49:09 I was the one that wanted to go play bingo. 49:11 We had not gone in three weeks since 49:13 Stephanie went to the hospital. 49:15 I'm the one that needed the night out and asked George 49:18 he was willing to go. 49:20 So yeah that guilt for leaving them, George was the 49:23 one that wanted to keep Billy away, nobody trusted him. 49:26 We lived in an area of Lake resorts and after the 49:31 children were killed one of the resort owners came up to 49:34 me and said, all of us were out that night, Thursday night is 49:37 the night to go out because when you run a resort you take 49:41 care of tourists on the weekend. 49:43 That lady told me, she said none of us would allow Billy 49:46 to come down to our resorts, we had all banned Billy from 49:50 our resorts, I was the only one that allowed 49:53 Billy in the house anymore. 49:55 I was the only one that wanted to be there for him and 49:58 trust him and my family became the target. 50:01 So yeah I blamed myself. 50:03 You know I want to say because we're running out of time, 50:06 like you had said is that what you have learned is that 50:09 blame is such a common part of this. 50:12 Even with no blame, even if you have done everything right 50:16 you will find things to hang a hook on. 50:20 If I would've thought this, if I would have said this, 50:22 if I would have done this and on. 50:24 And I think faith and acceptance is a big thing right now is 50:27 that God comes in and says let Me hold you because 50:30 you are going to have all those what if's, you're going 50:32 to want to scream, you're going to want to cry and you're 50:34 going to want to never forgive and I want to heal you of 50:38 all that because the bottom line is those are so toxic. 50:41 God comes in and pours into you healing. 50:44 Joy I have seen men in your life so much, and it has 50:47 helped and benefited thousands. 50:51 Your first book I think 80,000 copies were sold right away. 50:55 And those were people that needed you to say to them that 50:58 you will get through this. 50:59 So thank you so much, thank you for being on the show, 51:02 thank you for blessing us and thank you for being 51:04 my friend. - thank you. 51:06 We will be right back stay tuned. 51:16 Amazing stories, real people in real situations discussing 51:19 issues that really matter. 51:21 A complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recover is 51:24 now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN 51:27 or online at 3ABN.org hosted by Cheri Peters. 51:31 This season follows principles of the book 51:34 'Steps to Christ'. 51:35 See for yourself how God changed the lives of the 51:37 convicted and the accused and victims of terrible crimes. 51:40 You won't want to miss a moment 51:42 of these powerful interviews. 51:48 We have talked about a lot of things on this show and 51:51 some of them, most of them have been incredibly serious, 51:56 tragic even, but I am so proud of God the way He... it doesn't 52:00 matter what is thrown at us, whether it is their own choices 52:04 or the things that we have gone out and done like 52:06 my own addiction or Lance Michael and his addiction, 52:09 God will work with the addict and get them 52:13 into a place of recovery. 52:15 With Chris when she started standing up on her own again 52:19 and she realized that she was going to have to recover 52:24 and turn to God, bring everything back to Him. 52:27 Every step God loved and nurtured her, 52:31 every step He helped her. 52:33 Every time she would ask a question, like you Joann, 52:36 she wanted to know what happened to my son and where is 52:39 he in all of those things as I watched God bring 52:42 healing into her life and I was so proud of her. 52:45 Lance Michael had told her at once point then I want 52:48 you mom to go until kids what happened to me. 52:51 She has been all over the world, she's been to Russia 52:54 with me, she's been to Thailand with me working with 52:57 street kids in the sex industry in Bangkok. 53:00 Working with heroine addicts in Russia and 53:03 throughout the United States. 53:05 There was one week, in a weeks time we talked to 250,000 53:09 kids, 250,000 kids and I know, I'm going to get back, 53:15 I know Joy, in my own recovery that your story helped me 53:20 to look at forgiveness in a way that 53:21 I had never looked at forgiveness. 53:23 I had such a difficult time even forgiving my parents for 53:27 not loving me and for being on the street and for the 53:30 rejection that I felt and all those kind of things. 53:33 I thought you know, I heard what you said in your own 53:36 book and in your own testimony is that God wants 53:39 to teach us to forgive so that we can actually heal. 53:43 So I could see on a scale that is bigger than me that 53:46 God is really wanting us to say these are all my kids 53:50 and Satan has thrown a wrench into the clog and 53:56 everything is getting jammed up, but I am God, I will 54:00 teach you to forgive and I will teach you how to heal. 54:03 Joy I want to thank you for that, I want to thank you for 54:06 putting it out there and I know it took 11 years in your 54:09 process of forgiveness, but because you shared that with 54:13 me through your book I was comforted like it says in 54:16 2 Corinthians about the comfort that you have given that 54:19 you got from God you comforted me with. 54:22 So I just want to have you share, you have a family now? 54:27 You have kids now? 54:28 Talk a little bit about that. 54:29 Well Sandy was born 11 months after we lost the other 54:32 kids, then we had another little boy Matthew and another 54:35 one Michael and they are two years apart. 54:38 They are all grown on their own now, 54:40 they are 24, 26 and 28. 54:43 And you are having grandbabies? 54:45 We are having grandbabies. 54:46 I have two grandsons Gabriel is 11 months old and 54:50 Devon is three months old and 54:53 they are an incredible blessing. 54:55 So God is bringing things back into your life in a huge 54:58 way. - yes He has, He has done incredible things in my 55:02 life and He gets all the credit. 55:04 He does and I am so blessed by you. 55:06 There are addictions that we bring into our lives that 55:10 we need to overcome. 55:12 We need to have a total make over, I love the fact that God 55:16 in His word said that in Psalms 51 and I would like to 55:20 read it because it is absolutely an amazing Psalms 51 says 55:24 "have mercy on me Oh God because of your unfailing love, 55:27 "because of the great compassion blot out the stain of my 55:31 "sin. Wash me clean from my guilt and purify me from sin 55:35 "far I recognize my rebellion, it haunts me day and night. 55:38 "Against you and you alone have I sinned. I have done wrong 55:42 "I have done evil in your sight. You will be proved right in what 55:47 "ever you say about me in whatever judgment you have about 55:50 "me will be right, for I was born a sinner, from the moment 55:53 "my mother conceived me, but you desire honesty from the 55:57 "womb teaching me wisdom even there. Purify me from my 56:00 "sins and I will be clean, wash me and I will be whiter 56:03 "than snow. Give me back my joy again. You have broken 56:07 "me now help me to rejoice and don't look too close at my 56:10 "sins. Remove the stain of my guilt and creating me a clean 56:14 "heart oh God and renew a loyal spirit within me. " 56:17 So create in me and make me new. 56:19 It's amazing, confess your addictions and junk to God, 56:23 your sin, God will forgive you and through the 56:25 Holy Spirit He will lead you into a new life. 56:28 It's a little harder when the things that have happened 56:32 to you, like Joy are not something that you brought into 56:36 your life, would never have asked for such a thing 56:38 but emotionally it has almost destroyed you. 56:41 God said confess, forgive, even forgive God Himself 56:45 and allow Him to restore life. 56:47 It is said in the 2 Corinthians 1:4 you will be comforted, 56:52 you'll comfort others by the comfort that God has given 56:56 you. Life is not always fair and the devil has really 57:00 tried to destroy folks and God is always, always good. 57:04 He will restore everything that has been taken from you, 57:08 everything that has physically, emotionally, spiritually 57:11 caused you such pain and will bring hope and 57:14 joy back into your life. 57:16 He has with Joy, He has with me, He has with Chris, 57:19 and He has with countless others. 57:21 Let Him bring healing into your life. 57:23 Next time on Celebrating Life In Recovery we are going to 57:27 be talking to a Vietnam vet who was destroyed by his anger 57:30 and was destroying other people. 57:33 He has actually come to God and said God, I can't go on. 57:38 I can't do this God has and is teaching him to give up his 57:43 rage, to give up his anger, all the emotional junk that 57:47 has been in his life. 57:49 God is turning all of that around and he is finding 57:52 recovery so join us you will be blessed. 57:55 I know you will, God bless, see you next time. |
Revised 2014-12-17