Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Richie & Timari Brower
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000132A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behaviour. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:11 When I met Timmy and Richie Brower, 00:13 I heard them say that their relationship was hemorrhaging 00:16 that they were bleeding to death, 00:18 and it caught my attention 00:20 because I knew what that felt like. 00:22 You're gonna love these next guests 00:23 and you're gonna love their healing, 00:25 it was amazing. 00:27 Welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery. 00:29 I'm Cheri, your host, 00:31 and I just can't wait 00:33 to introduce you to my friends. 00:35 Come join us on the cafe. 01:01 Welcome. 01:03 Today we're gonna be talking about relationships, 01:05 marriage connection and somebody says, 01:08 "Why do we need to talk about that?" 01:09 Just look around you, because I really, 01:11 when I first came into the church 01:13 what I realized is that 01:15 I don't know if a lot of us really know 01:18 how to be ourselves, be in our own skin, 01:22 and then really step into relationship. 01:24 And as I started to learn that, 01:27 even with Brad and I. 01:28 And you've met my husband, he's adorable. 01:31 But, man, we had to go through a ton of stuff, 01:34 so I'm going to introduce you to our guest 01:36 right out of the gate 01:38 because I want to give them a lot of time 01:40 to share with you who they are 01:43 and what they learned about relationships. 01:46 So Richie Brower, Timmy, 01:48 and you have a ministry of your own that you do 01:52 and what's that called? 01:53 It's called Marriage Conversion, 01:54 and we travel and do seminars in churches 01:57 and events across North America. 02:00 And then we have online sites, websites 02:02 that we have where people can come and watch training videos. 02:06 We do live webinars and different things like that, 02:08 all supporting people in getting tools 02:11 to strengthen their marriages. 02:13 That's awesome. 02:14 Is that because you've always been such an expert? 02:17 Absolutely. 02:19 'Cause I heard you speak. 02:21 I'm thinking that sounded so good, 02:22 but you know what? 02:24 I want to know, 02:26 we're gonna do a couple of programs with you guys, 02:28 but I want to know, Richie, 02:30 where did you come from 02:31 and how were you when you stepped into relationship? 02:34 Oh, mercy. 02:36 Well, where I come from. 02:37 I was an expert in marriage by the time I was 13. 02:40 I had read 13 books 02:42 on the topic of marriage and courtship 02:44 by the time I was 13 years old. 02:45 Why? 02:47 Because of where I come from. Okay. 02:48 So I come from a family, 02:50 it was a church attending family, 02:53 but my home was a home of tremendous chaos, 02:57 literally, 02:58 if you walked into your house 03:00 which no one was allowed to when I was a kid, 03:02 but if you did walk into our house, 03:03 you would have seen the house 03:04 that was literally full of trash, 03:07 mounds of garbage everywhere, magazines, books, 03:10 wrappers whatever. 03:11 And there were aisles through the garbage... 03:13 So actually from a hoarding family. 03:15 Yeah, just piles of stuff. 03:18 And there was aisles through the garbage, 03:20 but if you want to sit on a chair, 03:22 you'd have to follow the aisle through the trash 03:24 and then pick up a stack of magazines 03:25 or something on the chair and set it aside. 03:28 There was dishes in the sink. 03:29 They were always dirty. 03:31 There was never, would not never rarely 03:34 a warm meal on the table as a kid, 03:37 and so literally for me growing up, you know, 03:41 I wake up in the morning 03:42 and I had a cousin of my age 03:44 who was living in our home with us at the time, 03:46 and my daddy gone to work 03:47 and he would have made breakfast, 03:49 but he made an hour ago and it was oatmeal, 03:51 so by the time we got there, it's anything but appealing. 03:54 So food became a really big deal to me 03:57 because we didn't have it, so that was part of the chaos. 04:01 The other part of the chaos is that my family, 04:04 my parents, their marriage was in chaos, 04:07 and a lot of tension and strife. 04:09 And sometimes that would come out in conflict. 04:11 And so there was times 04:13 when things were thrown at each other in my presence 04:15 as a kid seeing that 04:18 domestic violence happening there, 04:19 and probably some of the most profound impact on my heart 04:25 as a kid came from how those fights would end 04:28 in the way the fight ended between my parents 04:31 would be with my mom 04:32 storming out the door and saying, 04:34 "I'm just gonna go kill myself." 04:36 And then she'd get in the car... 04:37 Were you only kid, only child? 04:39 I'm one of three, 04:40 but I'm ten years younger than my nearest sibling, 04:43 so my siblings had gone away to boarding school 04:45 and so it was me, and I had a cousin 04:47 who she'd come to live with us for several years. 04:49 She was nine months younger than me, 04:51 so there was two of us and then it was just me 04:53 when she went back to her mom. 04:55 So my mom would make this statement, 04:57 this threat and she went out the door 04:59 and I don't remember this, 05:01 but my big sister said, 05:03 "She'd be gone sometimes for ten days." 05:05 She just go camping. 05:07 And have no idea did she kill herself? 05:08 Is she alive? 05:10 Is she coming back? Right. 05:11 This is before cell phones, so there's no way to reach her, 05:14 she just disappeared. 05:15 And so as a boy, 05:17 I had a reoccurring nightmare and it's interesting, 05:20 the nightmare was, 05:22 it was a night time along the county road near our home, 05:25 and I would have this dream of my dad ironically, 05:28 my dad stepping out in front of a full sized semi truck 05:32 in the dark and being hit. 05:34 And so there was just incredible chaos 05:37 and so as a boy that... 05:40 I can't imagine, I just have to say Richie, 05:41 I can't imagine that when you said, 05:44 I grabbed 'cause when you said, 05:46 I read all these books before I was 13, 05:48 I thought who, 05:49 no 13 year old reads all this stuff is that 05:51 you were trying to make sense in any way, 05:54 can someone give me some information 05:56 because I'm not going to survive. 05:58 That's right, yeah. 06:00 So there was just the sense of... 06:03 I don't know if I'm going to make it and I made. 06:05 My parents divorced when I was eight and a half, 06:08 and in many ways that was a relief. 06:10 I would have told you as a kid, it's better. 06:13 And so, 06:14 they decided that 06:16 they didn't want to drag me through a custody battle. 06:18 So I remember we lived in a home 06:20 where there was a wall part way down the stairs 06:23 of the two story home and I live, 06:25 my room was upstairs 06:26 and there's a wall that came part way down 06:28 and then the rest was open the living room. 06:30 And one night I heard them talking downstairs, 06:32 I wasn't asleep yet. 06:33 And I snuck down the stairs so I was behind that wall 06:37 and I'm listening to my parents 06:39 planning their divorce and they made a decision, 06:42 they didn't want to have a custody battle... 06:44 And no one had talked to you yet. 06:45 No, no one had talked to me. 06:47 So they're planning their divorce and they said, 06:49 "We don't want to have a custody battle, 06:51 so let's just ask Richie who he wants to live with." 06:53 I was eight and a half. 06:55 So that's what happened. 06:56 My mom took me to ice cream, went to Dairy Queen... 06:59 No way, you're talking eight years old 07:01 and in with ice cream in front of you, 07:04 somebody's trying to say, 07:05 do you love me or your dad more. 07:07 I mean because basically that's what 07:08 an eight year old is going to hear. 07:10 Right. 07:11 So an amazing thing happened, 07:13 this was one of the first instances 07:14 looking back on my life where I say, 07:15 God just showed up right there. 07:17 We're sitting in our little Volkswagen buggy 07:18 outside Dairy Queen 07:20 and I looked at my mom and I said, 07:22 "I want to live with dad." 07:25 There's no way that I don't know 07:27 how I came to that conclusion, 07:29 but it was absolutely the right decision. 07:31 I love both my parents 07:32 but my dad was the healthier of the two 07:35 at that point in their lives. 07:36 Because even with the hoarding 07:38 when you talk about all of the chaos 07:39 and all of the hoarding and the suicidal stop, 07:42 you saw that primarily from mom. 07:44 Dad would go to work, he would come back, 07:47 he was there for you more healthier. 07:51 Hard to say that anybody was really there 07:53 for any of us kids. 07:54 He had his own stuff going but he was healthier, 07:58 he was more balanced I guess at that point. 08:00 So there was, 08:02 there was other things going on with dad 08:03 that those would surface later when I was an adult but, 08:07 so eight and a half, mom and dad divorced, 08:09 and now it's dad and I. 08:12 And so now I would come home from school, you know, 08:17 and my dad was selling Christian books door to door 08:20 and so he worked until 9:30, 10 o'clock at night 08:22 and I get home from school at 3:30, 4 o'clock. 08:26 And so the difference the time in between was time 08:28 that I was a latchkey kid, let myself in, 08:31 I'd cook supper for myself or if I, you know, 08:33 I had a wide repertoire, I could make toast. 08:36 Graham crackers and milk and I think mac and cheese. 08:40 So those were my options 08:41 and so that's what life looks like 08:44 until through sixth grade I lived with my dad 08:49 and was that was kind of how things went 08:50 through most of that time. 08:52 Did you realize at that time, Richie, 08:53 that you really learned to rely on yourself only? 08:57 No, I had no clue. Yeah. 08:59 You know as I became an adult 09:03 and started actually taking a look at my own story 09:05 in a way that I hadn't prior to that, 09:07 I realized that I actually made a vow, 09:10 not a conscious about it but I made a vow, 09:12 I will never be dependent on anyone but myself. 09:15 Exactly. 09:17 And I didn't realize I made that vow but I had, 09:19 and that's a tough vow to live with 09:21 especially when you end up choosing to be a pastor, 09:24 and you've made a vow to trust no one 09:26 which of course has to include God. 09:29 And so that, 09:30 that started having all kinds of implications 09:33 when I met this girl and we got married. 09:34 So how did you... 09:35 And so, Timmy, even hearing this story, 09:39 you're hearing this story, 09:41 for me it must still make you feel like, 09:45 "Man, I'm sorry for what you went through." 09:49 You bet, specially, you know, we have, 09:50 we have three little boys 09:51 and as I think of any of them 09:54 in even just one of those segments of his life, 09:57 let alone all of it, it's absolutely heartbreaking, 10:00 because I know that they couldn't handle it. 10:03 And I'm so grateful that they couldn't. 10:05 They're not supposed to... 10:06 Exactly, they're not supposed to 10:08 and it is both... 10:10 It's a testimony to God in Richie's life 10:12 that he is where he is now. 10:14 So how did you guys meet? 10:16 Usually how did you decide pastoral work, I mean. 10:19 Oh, well, you know, 10:21 I read those 13 books on marriage. 10:24 By 13. 10:26 By 13, yeah, you know, I actually... 10:29 because my dad worked for the church 10:30 selling Christian books and stuff. 10:32 I watched how that worked for him 10:33 and I made another vow, 10:34 "I'll never work for the church," 10:36 was another vow, 10:38 I said, "No way no how." 10:39 But as I entered into junior high and high school, 10:43 I had the ability to talk 10:45 and people see that in young people they say, 10:48 "Oh, you want to be a pastor." 10:49 And I said, "No way." 10:53 But there came a day 10:54 after working at summer camp for a lot of years. 10:57 I love summer camp, I thought I can do that 10:59 and that was fun. 11:01 So working at campus staff, 11:02 there came a day on a beach in Australia, 11:06 where I was with one of my mentors and heroes. 11:09 We were on a tour, 11:10 he was speaking for youth invents and stuff 11:12 and we were doing drama. 11:14 And on that beach 11:16 he looked at me one night after the program 11:18 for the youth had finished there on the beach in Australia 11:19 and he said, "You know, 11:21 we could really use people like you in the ministry." 11:23 And that was the beginning and God used other men 11:26 that I love and respect to speak into my life and said, 11:30 "This is your call." 11:31 So I was a business major and college 11:34 and felt like God said, 11:36 "No, I want you to go and become pastor." 11:37 So I really and I don't want to spend too much time on this 11:40 because I know that, you know, 11:43 what we're going to discuss today. 11:45 But you said something that I think is crucial 11:47 for the church to hear is that 11:49 you had men that spoke into your life, 11:52 you had mentors along the way. 11:54 You're from this crazy home when you shut the door, 11:57 life is way different 11:59 but someone saw something in you 12:00 and gave you that time. 12:02 Yeah, and that's part of the gift 12:04 that God has given me through the church is that 12:07 there's been multiple people, men and women, 12:09 I adopted moms, I adopted men, 12:12 I never, I didn't call most of them dad, 12:14 but I've adopted people who just spoke into my life 12:17 in different seasons 12:19 and part of where the corner was turned in Richie's life 12:23 was when the parents of my best friend 12:26 first through third grade, my best friend. 12:28 His parents they agreed to take me into their home 12:33 starting with the summer after my sixth grade year. 12:35 So I went to visit for the summer 12:37 and I end up staying that became my home. 12:39 And I adopted them, they adopted me 12:41 and I called them mom and dad to this day 12:43 and they call me their other son. 12:45 And so somebody is now saying let me make dinner for you. 12:48 Yeah. 12:49 You know, this is not your job, 12:51 go play, do your homework. 12:53 Do your chores. 12:55 Clean your room. 12:57 All the things that you... 12:58 and I loved it, I had boundaries 13:00 and also my life starts to take shape and substance 13:04 and so I read these 13 books on relationship. 13:06 And now my adopted mom says, 13:09 "Hey, why don't come sit with me on the bed 13:11 and we're going to talk about," 13:12 and she opens this book to me on Characters 13:14 and Personalities. 13:16 First time I ever heard about cleric, 13:17 phlegmatic all those kind of things, 13:19 and I start to learn about who God made me to be 13:21 and how I'm wired. 13:23 Now, we didn't talk about how my wounding 13:25 had affected my wiring at that point, 13:27 but I started getting a picture of, 13:29 whoa, I could do something in the world, 13:31 and that was really a turning point right there 13:33 in seventh and eighth grade. 13:35 And so I went into high school feeling like, 13:37 you know what, I am made to do big things. 13:40 And so I thought, you know, 13:43 I felt like I had a pretty normal 13:45 background at that point. 13:47 If you would ask me I would say, 13:48 no, I come from a normal family, you know, 13:50 I mean isn't that what everybody certainly looks like 13:52 and so... 13:54 I love when you say that 13:55 because even as I'm hearing your story 13:57 that we really do believe that we're normal 13:59 until we start looking around and saying, 14:01 "Man, that had to have twisted me." 14:06 Even for you when you, 14:07 when you talk about those trust levels 14:09 and vowing that you know I'm not going to trust anybody. 14:12 I'm going to take care of myself, 14:13 all of those things, 14:15 and each mentor in each relationship 14:17 really kind of put a chisel to that 14:20 and started cracking that open. 14:23 That's huge. 14:24 So did you guys meet in college, 14:27 and when did you meet? 14:28 He's very old, we could have never met in college. 14:31 We were never there at the same time... 14:33 Se, I didn't know he was that old. 14:34 Yes, he is very mature clearly. 14:38 No, we actually met at summer camp 14:39 because Richie just kept going back 14:41 until I got old enough. 14:44 We actually tell the joke that 14:45 we both started at summer camp the same year 14:47 because we did, the difference is he was staff 14:49 and I was a adventurer camper, I was eight. 14:53 Thankfully I have absolutely no recollection of that 14:56 because that would've been so scarring to have... 14:58 She took rock climbing for me. 15:00 But the girl that was teaching with him. 15:02 Oh, she was one of the big girls 15:04 and she was so pretty. 15:05 You know, when you're little and you're... 15:07 I mean, oh, my goodness 15:08 I have no recollection of him whatsoever. 15:11 But I did come back a staff of legal age 15:15 and that's how we met, 15:18 we just started talking 15:19 and we were both theology majors, 15:22 he had been, he was pastoring at that point, 15:23 I was a theology major, he was in seminary. 15:26 And we just started talking about big things 15:29 and big ideas and God 15:33 and just big few things 15:36 and not very many people talked like he talks. 15:39 He does have a gift of talking, he was right. 15:41 And there was one night in particular 15:43 I remember it was raining, 15:45 I didn't have a cab in that week, 15:46 and we just sat on the steps as the rain came down 15:49 and talked about life 15:50 and what we want to be when we grow up 15:52 and we just we started deep almost instantly of, you know, 15:57 where is God taking us, 15:59 and what does He want from us 16:01 in exciting adventurous sort of ways... 16:04 What's incredible even as you're talking is that 16:07 it sounds like that you fully saw each other, you know, 16:12 and what you dreamed about, saw each other spiritually. 16:15 This is what I dream about. 16:18 This is how God has touched my life 16:19 and for whatever reason decided to share that with each other 16:23 and it was receptive. 16:24 Because some people would look at you and say, 16:26 "That's crazy, let's go rock climbing." 16:28 What are you talking about? 16:29 Yeah, we did that too, but yeah, we just, 16:32 we started off our pricing within our second conversation, 16:35 we went really deep really fast 16:38 and we've always dreamed together. 16:41 You know we can be in the depths of marital chaos 16:45 and be dreaming about helping marriages some day 16:49 and I really think... 16:51 After we get through meeting I'm gonna tell you. 16:53 Right, when that part is gone, 16:57 and so that has something 16:58 God has placed in both of our hearts big dreams. 17:01 We're always dreaming 17:02 and we seem to have given birth to dreamers as well. 17:05 So at that time, you guys really connect. 17:09 Now, you're working together in camp. 17:11 When did you know that more than likely 17:15 this is my wife, 17:17 more than likely this is my husband? 17:19 Well, we... 17:20 Well, I'll let you talk in just a minute. 17:22 We got through the summer from hell 17:24 is how we affectionately call it 17:26 and we figured 17:27 marriage could not possibly be worse than this 17:29 so we should consider it. 17:31 What made it so hard to get through? 17:35 What was difficult about that summer? 17:36 Well, that was our second summer. 17:38 We've been dating for about nine months, 17:40 long distance at that point, 17:42 and we just couldn't see eye to eye on diddly-squat. 17:46 I mean, I did like let's go this direction. 17:48 No, over there is the Promised Land. 17:50 I mean everything was different, we couldn't... 17:54 Which pretty wraps up, 17:55 pretty much wraps up how marriage went to... 17:57 For the first eight years, pretty much, 17:58 that does sum up that. 18:01 I think some, you know, control on my side 18:03 and jealousy and different things 18:05 in that environment with, you know, 18:06 all the camp staff and stuff. 18:08 There's a lot of communication, should have been some red flags 18:10 with all those 13 books I had read but... 18:14 Because I should have that information. 18:16 That's right. 18:17 But you know, and I've got to get back 18:18 because I think sometimes we forget 18:20 we're in the midst of falling in love 18:22 and seeing that, you know what, 18:24 I think this is my life partner 18:25 but then all of the stuff that we have been carrying 18:29 starts to kind of bubble up to the surface. 18:33 And we didn't even know that 18:34 what we didn't know at that point, 18:36 I mean we both thought we had pretty normal childhoods 18:39 and so we were coming into, you know, 18:41 do good things for God and for ministry, 18:43 he was kind of lucky to have us on his team... 18:45 Yeah, that's how we felt. 18:47 That's kind of how, 18:48 I mean we would have never worded it that way, 18:49 not quite that verbally arrogant, 18:52 I was not quite that really arrogant... 18:55 But, you know, how many people has God said, 18:58 you know what, that's cute 18:59 but we're going to have to work on that. 19:02 And if you really love someone, 19:03 you'll pray that prayer on their behalf 19:05 because he will be faithful to show up 19:07 and show you that, you're really... 19:09 He's really, really lucky 19:11 that he has a really good summer. 19:12 So during that summer 19:15 where everything was opposite 19:16 and you could see those opposites 19:18 just coming out like crazy. 19:22 I know that for you, 19:23 even the way you tell the story, 19:25 it was crazy making. It was. 19:27 Like I just want you to see that this is not making sense. 19:30 So I just want you to get it that, you know, 19:32 I'm the spiritual leader. 19:34 You know, whatever it is so give me an instant. 19:38 For instance what did it look like 19:41 and but you walked right into the relationship anyway. 19:44 Yeah, we did. 19:46 I'm trying to think of a good story... 19:47 Because it was a million years ago. 19:49 There was a bunch, you know, 19:51 I can think of, you know, there was, there was one. 19:54 There was one guy's staff who... 19:57 He just really, you know, he didn't like me, 20:00 we didn't get along very well 20:02 and so he made a point of being really friendly to Timmy, 20:05 and it just frosted my hide and she didn't really see 20:08 why that was a problem 20:10 so that was an example of this... 20:12 This gentlemen I had been friends, 20:14 well, he was yeah, 20:15 we've been friends at college 20:17 but Richie and I had been dating long distance 20:19 so like my normal relationships at school 20:21 weren't really affected by having a boyfriend. 20:23 Right. 20:24 And so that was it, and that was probably 20:27 the hardest transition of going into camp. 20:29 All of a sudden this person I'm dating who I do love, 20:32 he's here in the flesh. 20:34 And it was like, oh, oh, everything has to adjust 20:38 and it was rather earth quaking... 20:39 Hard adjustment but, 20:40 there was this weird thing 20:42 and neither of us can remember why we did this, 20:44 but going into that summer we made a rule 20:47 and the rule was, 20:49 we're not going to break up unless we both agree 20:51 that that's what needs to happen at that time. 20:53 And that summer I don't know how many times one of us said, 20:57 "I think we just need be done." 20:58 I'm done. 21:00 And the other one said, 21:01 "No, I don't think we're done yet." 21:03 I don't know were that really came from... 21:05 And we both abided by it which is really strange. 21:08 So he said, you know, you're right we need to quit. 21:11 Actually I don't think that now. 21:12 I think we need to stay together 21:14 and keep trying. 21:15 We can work this out 21:17 and he's like, "No, I don't think we can, 21:18 we can, we can." 21:19 And then, you know, 21:21 another few days, you're right, 21:22 we should just throw in the towel 21:23 he's like, "No, I see hope. 21:25 No." 21:27 Seriously that's how it went the whole summer. 21:29 And we made it to the end of the summer still together 21:32 because we could never agree just to break up 21:35 and we decided to just try dating in the same state 21:39 just for giggles 21:40 and so I went out to do my undergrad 21:42 where he was doing seminary 21:44 and we started talking about marriage 21:47 because it couldn't be worse than what we just did, 21:49 we were so sure. 21:51 I love and I don't know 21:52 how many people are probably watching this says, 21:54 that's exactly what I felt like 21:56 but we go through this tumultuous relationship 22:00 and everybody's still talking marriage, 22:02 that just cracks me up. 22:03 Yeah, yeah. 22:05 Well, and we didn't have a whole lot of templates 22:07 at that point to know what healthy relationship, 22:10 what marital love should look like. 22:13 I mean I said neither one of us did. 22:15 And so we were kind of weaving a prayer in it through 22:18 and we didn't pray and we were very intentional, 22:22 we asked specific people in our lives after that 22:26 very, very bad summer. 22:28 We, you know, we said, 22:29 "Hey, we're thinking about marriage 22:30 and we really want to have a God honoring marriage 22:33 and so." 22:34 What do you think? Yeah, what do you think? 22:36 And these are people not inside of our family 22:37 who had worked with us in ministry together 22:39 and say, you know, 22:40 if you have any concerns at all anywhere, 22:43 we will either put our engagement on hold 22:45 or we will call it off completely. 22:48 If you say anything and everyone's like, 22:50 "Oh, we love you guys, we think you're great, 22:54 we just think you're going to do good things for God, 22:56 go forth, kids." 22:57 Okay, we shall go forth." 23:00 And then we were ready 23:02 and so we got married 23:04 and then we got into our honeymoon 23:08 which was... 23:11 That is not a honeymoon look face, 23:14 I'm just saying, it was like end. 23:17 And then all the things we didn't know, 23:20 we didn't know smashed us on the head like an anvil, 23:23 would that be appropriate? 23:25 Yeah, so we went off on our honeymoon, 23:26 I mean like a lot of young couples 23:28 we had, we had, you know, said, 23:30 we're going to save physical intimacy for marriage 23:33 and so we were excited about the honeymoon 23:35 and talking about how great this is going to be to connect, 23:38 you know sexually and we're looking forward to it 23:41 and so we leave our wedding day exhausted, 23:43 you know... 23:45 That's a tiring day. And hungry. 23:46 Yeah and hungry, 23:48 and we're off on our honeymoon 23:49 and everything fell apart the first... 23:52 What do you mean? 23:54 Well, sex didn't work for us and we don't know why, 23:57 we read the books. 23:59 So now, I mean I'm in 20 books but we, we... 24:02 So we've read the books 24:03 on how sex is supposed to work in marriage and all that... 24:05 And I've seen the movies 24:07 where all the sudden everybody is just, 24:08 it's all that... 24:09 Well, we didn't want marital counseling 24:11 and he warned us. 24:12 Okay, it's not going to be like the movies. 24:14 Thank you. 24:15 Okay, we are ready then. 24:16 So that's all it really takes 24:18 it's not like the movies and biology will take over. 24:20 Okay, we're ready then. Yeah. 24:22 But, well, biology didn't take over, 24:24 now we understand that. 24:25 But it wasn't the way that most people would expect 24:28 and so it literally did not work 24:30 and there was pain instead of pleasure. 24:33 And so that touched 24:34 all kinds of things inside of me 24:36 and all kinds of things inside of her 24:38 and so the way that our honeymoon 24:39 ended quite literally was... 24:41 I remember one evening 24:43 we were on an island destination 24:44 and we're sitting on a beach 24:46 beautiful sunset over the ocean. 24:48 And we're watching this sunset, 24:50 Timmy on one end of the beach and Richie on the other. 24:53 Wow. 24:54 And that's how we started marriage 24:56 and we went into our marriage 24:58 so we had the summer from hell, 25:00 and now we have the honeymoon from hell, 25:02 and now we go into the first year from hell. 25:05 But I'm already pastoring... 25:07 Right. 25:08 So I have a district that I'm a part of... 25:09 And even when you say that 25:11 because most people don't know that as a pastoral couple 25:14 when you walk in everybody puts their smile on, 25:17 we got our suit on, 25:19 you know how was your honeymoon? 25:20 It was great. 25:22 Let me show you some pictures 25:24 and you're walking back into the house saying, 25:26 what have I done? 25:28 Well, and it wasn't that we necessarily, I know, 25:30 what have I done, 25:31 like we weren't committed to each other. 25:33 We just, we didn't have any idea 25:35 what was the way forward. 25:36 I mean is there a way forward 25:38 and because we were already in ministry, 25:40 I was finishing college, 25:42 Richie was pastoring and I was commuting to school. 25:44 But we didn't, we didn't even know 25:46 how to ask for help. 25:47 We didn't know where to ask for help. 25:49 Who do you ask when you're the ones 25:50 who are supposed to be the, you know, 25:51 religious know it alls. 25:53 Yeah. 25:54 You know, where do you go and what do you do, 25:56 and we were at a complete loss. 25:59 So what that meant is we were trying really hard 26:01 reading more books because we're both readers. 26:04 You know, we're reading books 26:05 and we're trying to figure it out, 26:07 but we have no tools. 26:08 We don't even know how to put language around 26:11 what's happening to even tell someone about it 26:14 and yet we have to go out 26:16 and put on our happy ministry faces 26:18 so it was literally a... 26:20 I would like to say 26:22 this is a great time for us to take a break and come back, 26:25 because what I'm seeing is with everything 26:30 that you've described 26:32 as described as far as childhood, 26:34 all of the thing that led to this, 26:36 you're happy ever after, 26:38 all of the sudden is in question 26:40 and you are screaming out who do I talk to. 26:43 And we have taught people in ministry 26:45 to kind of just live in silence with that stuff, 26:49 and I know that that's not what you did. 26:52 So if you are at all looking at your own relationships 26:56 while they're talking is like good for you. 26:58 Good on you for that. 26:59 If you are, you know, 27:01 someone that is struggling, 27:03 just stay with us, 27:04 because this is actually an incredible ending. 27:08 And not even ending, because we're not done yet, 27:10 but this is just an incredible journey 27:12 so stay with us. 27:13 We'll be right back. |
Revised 2016-10-31