Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Richie & Timari Brower
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000133B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:13 Welcome back. 00:14 You were talking about marriage 00:16 and we're talking about healing in the end, 00:18 you know, a lot of us come, I know that I did, 00:21 came from such a really wounded dark place 00:24 and I step into a relationship 00:25 and we believe if I can only love or be loved, 00:29 all of that goes away 00:31 and you guys have been talking about that today, 00:34 is this that and that was your belief, 00:36 is that once I fall in love, once I have a partner. 00:39 Even, Richie, when you said that a little while ago, 00:42 everything in you said, I will never be alone again. 00:45 Everything changes 00:46 and what you found out is that's not true, 00:49 all of this stuff just come up to the surface. 00:51 Yeah. 00:52 So I can start it all over again and, you know, 00:55 the story didn't stay there. 00:56 Fortunately, we wouldn't be here talking today 00:58 but I was such a blind contributor. 01:02 Cheerfully blind, 01:04 I would say willingly blind... 01:05 Wanting to be blind. 01:07 Oh, yeah, because it's much easier for me 01:09 to see the fault in her and none in me 01:12 and that played out in some pretty ugly unfortunate ways. 01:16 I remember specifically, 01:18 one time as Timmi was starting to meet with her mentors 01:22 and starting to get a new vision of what 01:23 a healthy relationship looked like, 01:25 she started to say thing like, you know, 01:27 "This can't all be me." 01:29 And I remember looking at her and my response, 01:32 out of my chosen blindness 01:33 and my zero compassion score, 01:35 all of those combining, 01:37 my response was to her to say, 01:38 "You know, I can see 01:40 how it would be really difficult for you 01:42 to accept the responsibility for the chaos of our marriage, 01:45 after all these years, 01:46 I can see how that would be hard for you to carry that, 01:48 why you want to transfer some of that blame to me." 01:51 Notice the compassion on his face right now. 01:52 Yeah. 01:53 But even when you say that 'cause, you know, 01:55 but you were saying, 01:57 "As a man of God, I wanna enlighten you. 02:00 This is you." 02:01 Yes, honey, let me tell you how it is. 02:03 "Got it now. 02:04 I've got this figured out it's still you." 02:05 It's you. 02:07 This is your problem. Yeah. 02:08 So as he's speaking, 02:09 you know in your heart of hearts, 02:11 this is not true anymore. 02:14 You're having hope for the first time. 02:16 Maybe, it is not about only me and maybe, 02:19 we can actually work this out 02:21 but somebody does that 02:23 and what is the first feeling that you have? 02:25 What do you wanna say? And don't lie to me. 02:29 I will not lie to you. All right. 02:31 Well, I would say, I mean, truly as he's saying, 02:33 there was confusion rising, so I'm like, 02:35 wait a minute and there was, I mean, 02:37 I was starting to speak back in ways, 02:41 I was still, 02:42 I had to learn to be respectful. 02:44 You know, tactful occasionally, 02:46 but there was I guess a inner fortitude 02:50 that was rising of... 02:51 This is not on me. 02:52 This isn't on me and I'm not gonna act, 02:54 like I'm okay with it being that it is and I think, 02:57 I started getting angry... 02:59 up till that point I would say, Richie had been angrier. 03:02 But that started a season of me being more angry too. 03:05 It's like, "No, I'm not gonna take this anymore, actually..." 03:09 And I have to say 'cause a lot of times people will say, 03:12 I've had people that have come over my house 03:14 and we've just spent a week together just, kind of, 03:17 processing some other stuff. 03:18 But I have people that come over and they say, 03:20 "Well, if I get angry, is that rebellion?" 03:22 And it really isn't. 03:24 It's like being able to say that, 03:25 for the first time in your life, 03:27 somebody needs to be angry for this child 03:29 and confront those lies and say, not anymore. 03:33 And that is, kind of, 03:34 a seed of healing even though 03:36 it doesn't sound like it at the time. 03:38 Yeah. Yeah 03:39 Or feel like it. It doesn't feel like it. 03:41 Especially to you. That's right. 03:42 You're like, What happened to my sweet little wife 03:45 and why are you saying this to me? 03:46 Yeah. 03:48 She's talking back to me all of a sudden. 03:49 'Cause clearly... 03:50 I'm the spiritual leader of the house... 03:52 That never happened before. 03:53 I think something that we've learned even recently 03:56 about anger though, 03:57 is that anger is a God given emotion 04:00 for the purpose of righting wrongs, 04:03 it's about injustice, 04:05 where it gets confused and mixed up is, 04:07 when it rises in me 04:09 because I'm feeling that 04:10 an injustice is being done to me 04:12 but that's not necessarily what's truth, 04:14 and the lies I'm believing are wrapped up in that. 04:17 That's where anger gets really destructive, you know, 04:20 but anger for the purpose of justice, 04:23 is I think, I mean, 04:25 that's what Jesus did in a temple. 04:26 It was, this is an injustice of what they were doing 04:29 to His Father's house 04:30 and that's why His anger wasn't sin 04:32 but ours is not usually... 04:35 Quite as righteous. It's not righteous. 04:37 And I think that, you know, for us. 04:39 I know for me, a lot of... 04:42 might be for both of us, 04:43 the anger that came up was very self protective, 04:45 you know, very... 04:47 "I'm not gonna be stepped on any more" 04:49 kind of, an attitude. 04:51 And that while maybe, maybe, better than the alternative, 04:55 maybe not. 04:56 It's still not that I would say, I'm partly... 04:57 Like better than the silence 04:59 It's still dysfunction. Right. 05:00 It's just a different side of maybe, 05:02 a similar coin and so... 05:03 But for a lot of people including yourself, 05:06 it definitely is a stage not to be afraid of. 05:10 You know, be careful and in the stage, 05:12 even as I'm listening to you guys. 05:14 It's like... 05:15 it's really incredible to have God to journal to 05:18 or go back to and say, 05:20 'cause I remember there were times 05:21 that I was so angry 05:23 and I was so looking at Brad in his arrogance, 05:25 at times, in his own issues at times 05:28 and just journaling with God 05:29 and I would start out those journals horrible, 05:31 like, no, no, no, no, no. 05:33 And by the time 05:35 He worked with me through the Holy Spirit. 05:36 I was saying, "Okay, how can I be hurt by him?" 05:39 So it really is, don't be afraid of it but don't... 05:42 you've got to step into that stage. 05:44 So you're right there. 05:45 You're starting to look at the injustice. 05:47 You're starting to say, 05:48 " Hey, this is not all about me." 05:50 Did he hear you at all? 05:52 Did you hear me at all? No. 05:55 I knew that was gonna be the answer. 05:56 It's like, "No, not at all." 05:58 No, total push back for me. 06:01 And like I already said, you know, 06:02 I can see why, you know, 06:04 this would be a heavy burden for you to carry 06:06 the responsibility of what you're 06:07 bringing to our marriage. 06:08 That was really my posture for a couple years... 06:12 Yeah. 06:13 But you are bringing the chaos in that house. 06:15 Yeah, but because I wouldn't back down. 06:17 It actually escalated the war in our home 06:22 because I wouldn't just go, 06:24 "Okay, fine" and go back to my corner anymore. 06:27 I said, "Nope. It's not on me." 06:28 And so then Richie's anger started getting higher too 06:32 and that found us in a pretty difficult position 06:35 'cause we were both pretty angry. 06:37 All of this while we're both in full time ministry. 06:40 Right. 06:41 So all of this is our reality, 06:42 while we were putting on our happy face 06:44 and I'm standing up to preach 06:45 or she's going to serve women at the shelter. 06:47 What I wanna say to both of you is, 06:49 I'm sorry that you didn't find enough people 06:52 that you could just be honest with. 06:53 I pray that's changing, 06:55 that we start to be able to talk to each other 06:57 and I know that you found mentors. 06:59 But, you know, 07:00 I wanna say even to somebody that's breaking denial 07:02 and there are some incredible men 07:05 that I know that had to go through exactly 07:07 what you had to go through, 07:08 is that as they're breaking denial 07:10 and seen all that kind of stuff. 07:11 The anger does escalate 07:13 'cause they wanna control everything, 07:14 they wanna contain everything. 07:16 If it's out of control, 07:18 am I gonna be left by myself again? 07:19 What's gonna happen? 07:21 What are people gonna think about me? 07:22 What about my ministry? 07:23 I mean, all of that kind of stuff 07:25 and we just try to fight to control. 07:26 Right. Yep. 07:28 And what you're finding out, in this crazy time, 07:32 is that didn't work. 07:33 No, no. It didn't. 07:34 So what worked? 07:36 'Cause something eventually worked. 07:37 Well, I think, you know, 07:39 what worked for me was, you know, 07:42 we've talked previously about the mentors 07:44 and starting to take at my own journey and look at, 07:48 where's the saying you're coming from 07:50 and looking at my story 07:51 and walking back into my story 07:53 and connecting with that and saying, 07:54 "Oh, that needs to be grieved, I mean, that's sad." 07:58 And so I need to take time to be sad 08:00 and grieve these elements in my story. 08:02 There were tragic and as I've done that 08:05 and I'm not done... 08:07 So let me just go back and somebody will say 08:09 and they've said it to me a number of times is do we, 08:12 do I have to go back to my past and relive that stuff? 08:16 And I wanna say, you're past, you're dragging that right now, 08:19 this is not your past. It's in every pocket. 08:21 You know, it's destroying every relationship 08:24 and so I don't think we ever have to go back to our past 08:26 but if we're dragging that anger with us every day. 08:29 That fear, that loneliness, that contempt, 08:31 all of that kind of stuff. 08:33 God says, "I can't even teach you about love 08:36 because you have this stuff that you're dragging." 08:39 And there's amazing research, you know, 08:41 brain research that talks about like, 08:42 our limbic system. 08:43 It knows no past or future. 08:45 Everything is present tense in our limbic system. 08:47 So when we're triggered by something that happens 08:49 relationally or trauma or whatever, 08:52 it's all right now. 08:53 And the same thing, 08:54 other research showing that our body remembers, 08:57 our body carries memories, so none of it's past, 09:00 it's all with us and it comes out 09:01 as physical maladies, 09:04 it comes out on relational brokenness... 09:06 And even when you say that, when I said, 09:08 Brad's breath on my face and neck, 09:10 all of the sudden, 09:12 I'm three years old and being molested, right? 09:14 So when you say, your body remembers. 09:17 And God says, you know what? 09:18 When you bring that stuff to me, 09:20 I promise you, 09:22 I will bring healing 09:24 but give it the time and energy that it needs. 09:27 You can't skip the work. 09:29 Right. No, no. 09:31 So it's really connecting the dots 09:32 in the storytelling and getting in touch with my own story, 09:35 our stories, that for me, 09:38 the anger began to come down 09:40 and part of that was definitely going to God in prayer, 09:43 changing the way I prayed for me... 09:45 The way you spoke to her? 09:46 Yeah, well, I'd prayed for eight years, 09:48 that God would change to me. 09:52 And my mentor said, 09:53 "Hey, why don't you pray 09:55 that God will teach you to love her well?" 09:58 That was like a new idea and again, 10:00 another prayer that God's excited to answer 10:02 and so that's how the journey began to change and the anger 10:05 for me was beginning to connect with my story and say, 10:08 "Oh, when she does this, 10:10 it reminds me of when I was a little boy and this happened" 10:13 and that's connecting there. 10:14 And as I made those connections, 10:16 the power started to come out of the stories 10:17 and the anger started to come down. 10:19 And the lies... 10:20 the lies start to change. That's right. 10:23 We will be destroyed by the lies 10:25 that we tell ourselves, 10:27 until we believe the truth and then the lie is voided out 10:30 and so it's like, 10:31 I think I love the fact that when you said, 10:33 "When I started looking at my own stuff, 10:35 when I started to love her well." 10:37 That whole paradigm shift. 10:38 I'm shifting and you started to feel that shift. 10:42 It's not about you anymore, it's not your fault anymore. 10:44 Yeah, and I think, 10:45 part of that is choosing to be on each other's team. 10:48 You know, because we can blindly trigger each other 10:52 and just, kind of, be indifferent about it. 10:53 Well, just stop it. 10:55 Well, I can't just stop it. 10:57 You know, and, you know, for Richie, he tells, 11:01 in other show he told about a story about his mom 11:04 just leaving for long periods of time... 11:06 After she threatened to kill herself. 11:07 Right, exactly. 11:08 Well, there are times martially, 11:10 I don't really wanna be in his space. 11:12 And so my desire is to just leave the house. 11:16 Well, what's that gonna trigger in him and so but then, 11:20 it's how do we balance our needs 11:21 'cause the reality is, 11:23 I do need to get away from the space we just created 11:26 and he needs to know in his heart 11:29 that I am not leaving him. 11:31 And so we know we've had times where I will say, 11:34 I need to leave. 11:36 I will be gone for X amount of time 11:39 or whatever, you know, 11:40 but I'm not leaving you. 11:41 I'm... 11:43 where this is not a re-enactment 11:44 of your childhood. 11:46 I need to take a walk. 11:47 I'm coming back and, you know, 11:48 and that kind of thing 11:50 and I think that's ways that we can be... 11:51 when we start knowing each other's stories... 11:53 That's powerful. It is. 11:54 Because I know his stories well enough to know that 11:57 I never wanna step into that space 11:59 and cause that little boy, pain. 12:01 No, not to the place of denial 12:02 or enabling or any of those things but, 12:05 I mean, there's ways I can go about things 12:07 that don't have to include hurting him. 12:09 Right. 12:11 Even when you're saying that, is being able to, 12:13 at one point say, "Can I care about that, 12:15 that what happened to you?" 12:17 Yeah. 12:18 And then can we step into our relationship. 12:21 So I can't change it. I can't pay for it. 12:23 I'm not your mom. 12:25 But I do care about that and I love you saying that 12:28 'cause we cannot disconnect each other 12:32 from the reality of our lives 12:35 but I can be aware of it. 12:36 Yep. 12:38 And something that I think like, 12:39 that I learned, 12:41 that made a difference for her is 12:42 as we were starting to learn new tools is, 12:45 I get angry, things that happen, 12:46 I still get angry lot of time but I've learned... 12:48 Your default is. Yeah. 12:50 And I've learned though that 12:51 if I get angry and leave 12:54 and don't talk to her 12:55 and then come back and act like nothing happened. 12:56 That's destructive. 12:58 But if I say, "I'm feeling angry, 13:01 I need to take a walk. 13:02 I'll be back in 30 minutes and we'll pick this up." 13:05 She knows I'm not leaving. I'm coming back. 13:06 We have an appointment 13:07 and I'm not gonna slip it under the rug. 13:09 I can go, talk to God and pray 13:11 and complain about this woman He's given me 13:13 and come back, 13:15 with Him having spoken to my mind and say, 13:17 usually, you need to go, listen to her 13:19 or whatever and we start at a whole different place 13:22 but that was a skill that began to take the energy out 13:25 of the fights, 13:26 for me and for her 13:28 as that was a way I can minister... 13:29 And even when you're saying that, 13:31 is that she's from a divorce home. 13:33 Everybody's gone their own way 13:34 and she goes from place to place 13:36 and everybody acts like nothing happened. 13:37 Right. 13:39 So for you to act like, in her own home, 13:40 for this pattern to follow her, 13:42 it's almost like both of you would just be screaming inside. 13:46 "I can't live out this pattern for the rest of my life." 13:49 So when we decide to do the work, 13:51 when we decide to love each other well. 13:53 When we decide to get the tools 13:54 and stay present and care about each other. 13:57 It's almost like those wounds get to heal finally. 14:02 Well, it's kind of a rewiring of the building, you know, 14:04 we've got this in building that has been, you know, 14:08 through both fault and no fault been wired poorly 14:11 and now we bring it into marriage 14:13 and it's sending up sparks all over the place. 14:15 You know, when Richie says, 14:16 I'm really feeling defensive and angry right now 14:19 and I will be back in half an hour. 14:22 And the first time he did that, 14:23 I went "What was that?" 14:26 Because, I mean, 14:27 that wasn't part of our dynamic, 14:29 that's not part of our cycle. 14:30 He goes, you know, 14:32 frustrated out the door 14:33 and I'm left stewing in my own juices 14:35 and we come back and tiptoe around each other 14:36 for a few days and then, 14:38 "Okay, enough time is gone by. 14:39 We'll act like everything's good." 14:41 So when he left saying, "I will come back, 14:43 I want to reengage this with you 14:45 but I'm not doing it productively." 14:47 And then he did and I could, 14:48 you know, we as wives, 14:50 we can sense the space our husbands are in it. 14:53 For Richie, there's a usually a scowl right there. 14:55 If he's frustrated and, you know, 14:59 he came back in, that particular time 15:01 and his face was calm and he said, 15:05 "I don't think I've heard you yet. 15:07 Would you please start..." 15:09 Oh, shut up. I know... 15:10 That is still sweet. No, I was floored. 15:12 I know. I was like, wait a minute. 15:15 Is this is a trick? Exactly. 15:16 Actually, that was part of my question but, 15:20 you know, I could sense that it wasn't, 15:22 he was the gentlemanly asking, you know, 15:25 "Can you tell me again 'cause I didn't get it." 15:28 And I'm like, and, you know, 15:30 when he came so humbly like that, 15:32 it takes all the fire out of me. 15:34 I don't feel the need to shoot him up 15:35 because he's coming, you know, 15:37 humble actually. 15:38 He actually wants to hear you. He does. 15:40 And I think that when we started doing that, 15:42 that's one thing, you know, doing our own work, 15:45 our story work and then giving each other space 15:48 but with a timeline, 15:50 so that we would come back. 15:52 That was really helpful. 15:53 That's amazing. 15:55 I wanna get back to this 15:56 but I know we have some incredible people at the cafe, 15:58 that probably have some questions for you. 16:00 So I wanna say, "Man, what do you think?" 16:03 And can we start here, with you, Christina, 16:08 and do you have any comment or question, 16:10 there you have for our guest? 16:12 Absolutely. 16:13 I come from a broken home too. 16:15 My question for you guys... 16:17 your determination to stay together is so strong. 16:21 Do you believe that's 16:23 because you came from broken homes, 16:26 both of you, 16:27 you don't want to repeat that pattern, 16:28 so you're determined no matter what, 16:30 you're gonna stick this out and make it work? 16:33 It's a great question, Christina. 16:34 I think we've asked ourselves some times. 16:38 Where did that come from? 16:39 And I don't know that we know the whole answer. 16:42 We made some commitments before we were married. 16:45 We said we will never use the D. word in our home. 16:49 And I think we've pretty well stuck to that 16:52 but there have been times, 16:53 when sometimes me, sometimes Timmi, 16:55 you know, we've gone, "I don't know. 16:58 I don't know if I want to take anymore." 17:02 And I think for me at least, 17:08 that determination comes from a couple of places. 17:11 God keeps calling me back 17:13 to right here is where you need to be for my growth. 17:17 I need to stay in a relationship 17:18 with this woman 17:19 because that's who God picked to help me grow up, 17:21 spiritually. 17:23 And the people that I have around me, 17:28 do not give me a pass and so I am, 17:31 I personally am supported by men who will say, 17:34 "So what's your part in this again? 17:36 And how are you gonna love to me while through this? 17:38 And that builds or buttresses my commitment 17:43 when it may lag for me, personally. 17:45 And I love when you say that and Christina, 17:48 I love the question 17:50 because there's a lot of times 17:51 where we have to make those commitments with each other. 17:54 I'm gonna grow through my relationship with Brad 17:58 and I don't wanna run. 17:59 I don't wanna run. 18:01 He doesn't wanna run and so many times, 18:03 it would be easier to do that, 18:04 it would be easier to just say, 18:06 you know what? 18:07 We made a mistake and head out of the door 18:10 but I really believe that there is a God above, 18:12 that says, you know what? 18:14 I can actually get you through that 18:15 and I'm not talking about somebody 18:16 that's in obvious abuse, 18:18 being beat, you know, 18:19 having that all that, kind of, craziness, 18:21 get yourself into a safe place 18:23 but I'm talking about most of us. 18:26 God says, "I can work with that." 18:28 You know, I know that you have a question. 18:32 I've been in a dating relationship 18:33 for a little over a year 18:35 and I was wondering 18:36 what advice you would have for someone 18:38 in my situation, me personally, 18:40 I wanna know for myself 18:42 but specifically on the issue of connection. 18:46 I like the partner story 18:47 where you guys said you really connected a lot 18:48 while you were dating, 18:50 you've dreamed together 18:51 and things like that but then it, 18:53 kind of, stopped, 18:54 when you got married and I just want to know 18:56 like how do you start that process 18:59 when you're dating 19:00 and to know how to put, you know, 19:02 have it better when you're married to connect? 19:05 Good question. 19:07 That's a good question. 19:08 I think, you know, 19:09 finding ways to play together is really important 19:12 from a bonding standpoint. 19:14 You know, we sometimes take that for granted. 19:16 I think, you know, of course, 19:18 we are going to do things together but, 19:19 you know, really intentionally, 19:20 find ways that build your relationship 19:22 that are just playful 19:24 because that will be something to help carry you, 19:26 even from a neuro biological standpoint, 19:30 it releases oxytocin 19:33 and other bonding chemicals 19:35 and as you go into marriage, 19:37 when the times get hard 19:38 and there's stress and adrenaline, 19:41 having that platform or foundation of connection 19:44 chemically as well as actionally, 19:47 really, really helpful 19:49 and then choosing as you get married, 19:51 you know, remember, how we used to do that? 19:53 We liked that. 19:54 We need to do that even 19:56 if you don't like each other so much at that moment, 19:58 to choose to do it anyways 20:00 'cause it kind of brings some of that fun 20:01 and connection into the hard times 20:04 'cause every relationship is gonna hit 20:06 hard times period. 20:08 And so to have tools already in place especially, 20:11 if you're intentionally saying, we're building this tool, 20:13 so if we ever get married someday, 20:15 we'll have it in our tool box. 20:17 I think that's a really important thing to help 20:19 maintain a connection for the long haul. 20:21 And we really have people around you too, 20:24 when you play, 20:25 especially if you're dating, play as a group, 20:28 get some young adults or folks around you. 20:31 And Brad and I, we do road biking, 20:34 we play golf and we ski together. 20:37 You know, all of that kind of stuff 20:38 and I didn't realize this 20:40 until I actually started to work 20:42 with couples more and more, that part of... 20:44 for men, they feel connected 20:48 definitely, intimately, 20:49 when we're in that intimacy but when they are playing, 20:53 when you are doing sports 20:55 and I had to find out from Brad. 20:56 We get a bike and I'm thinking, "How fun is this. 20:59 We could ride and talk and whatever 21:01 and he's thinking 'talk,' 21:03 we're doing, you know, 21:05 we're going from pole to pole to see how fast we can go 21:07 and we're gonna try to do these, 21:09 we did a hundred miles around like... 21:11 We wanna do it in this amount of hours and I'm thinking, 21:13 we're gonna talk and every time I talk, 21:15 he gets irritable. 21:16 So even find out how your partner plays 21:19 'cause they're gonna play different than you. 21:21 So it's a communication, it's just such a big thing as, 21:24 "Who are you? Who am I?" 21:26 And every once a while, 21:28 when I make sure that we're doing, 21:30 you know, trying to get our fastest time. 21:32 There are times that Brad will look at me and say, 21:34 "Let's just ride and talk and I'm like, look at you." 21:38 I love you. 21:40 But it is that learning to communicate. 21:42 Yeah, it is. You bet. 21:44 I was thinking too that, you know, 21:46 if it's not natural for you already 21:48 to have some of these big dream conversations, 21:51 then do it unnaturally 21:53 but make a habit of sharing your dreams together. 21:55 So you're gonna write down, I mean, do you know... 21:57 I mean, obviously, 21:59 some of these questions would be more appropriate 22:01 in different phases of your relationship, 22:03 say if you're engaged. 22:04 I mean, do you know 22:06 what he thinks about a big family 22:08 or small family? 22:10 You know, how do you want spirituality 22:13 to look like in your life? 22:14 How do you want career and family to interface? 22:16 Have these conversations about what life is about. 22:19 What's important and make that a habit 22:21 that you carry on into marriage. 22:23 And that keeps you dreaming forward about 22:25 what life could be 22:26 in this beautiful vision for life together 22:28 because that vision might carry you through 22:31 some rougher spots, 22:32 when it's not like you were hoping it would. 22:34 And, you know, you talked earlier about, you know, 22:37 there are times that red flags come up. 22:40 Don't ignore those, 22:41 if you get a red flag and that flag says, 22:44 "You know what? 22:45 He wants to be single and live in, you know, 22:50 this part of the world and I want to have three kids 22:53 and settled in this part of the world." 22:56 That's a red flag and you guys have to really process that. 22:59 I loved when you guys talked about, you know, 23:01 about the red flags. 23:03 We just cut the top of that flag off, 23:05 so we didn't even see him anymore. 23:07 You bet. 23:08 And, you know, there were red flags 23:10 when we were dating. 23:12 Large ones actually, 23:13 and we actually didn't entirely ask the right people. 23:16 We asked people who... 23:17 we said, you know, "Hey, should we get married? 23:19 What do you think?" 23:21 You know, we had people speaking into our lives 23:23 but we didn't actually ask our friends, 23:25 who actually did lie with us 23:27 and there was several times where people in our peer group, 23:32 as opposed to older peers. 23:34 Yeah. 23:35 You know, who were like, 23:37 what are you guys thinking? 23:38 Run. 23:40 You are doing bad stuff to each other. 23:41 You guys just clash like nobody's business and I'm like, 23:44 "Oh, but when we make up. 23:46 It's good." Right. 23:47 Yeah, not the best pattern. 23:50 "No, what do you know?" 23:51 And we really, 23:52 I know there was at least two friends, 23:54 I dismissed them out of turn and said, 23:56 "You just don't know the beauty that we create 23:58 when we're doing good." 23:59 Which was true, when we were doing good, 24:01 we were doing really good 24:02 but when we were doing bad, we were just awful. 24:04 And so... 24:06 Painfully so. 24:07 Yeah, and I should asked better questions of them 24:09 and think, "So what do you see? 24:11 What's it like?" 24:12 And actually taking in what they said, 24:14 instead of just dismissing them and saying, 24:15 "Yeah, what do you know?" 24:17 And that was like 24:18 the cutting off of the red flags. 24:19 So I love what you're saying is that, you know, 24:21 put a lot of people around you, 24:23 get that input from them 24:25 and even saying that, "Man, I am so glad, 24:30 you guys didn't run from each other." 24:32 'Cause what you give now is very real 24:35 and it's very intense. 24:36 So, you know, 24:37 we're kind of coming to the end of our time together 24:40 and so I want you to talk about 24:42 what is the coolest things that have happened in your life 24:49 as you have been more respectful to each other. 24:52 Allowed healing to happen, 24:54 dealt with anger and contempt 24:56 and all those kind of things. 24:58 What are some of the richness in your life because of it? 25:01 You know, one of the things that I think of, you know, 25:06 several years into the turn around 25:08 as we call it, 25:09 I realized that, you know, 25:11 my greatest desire was to have connection and intimacy 25:15 and not be alone or rejected 25:18 and I realized through all the work 25:20 that we've been doing, 25:21 there was such incredible connection. 25:24 Emotional, relational connection 25:26 and I thought, "Wow! 25:28 This is, I mean, 25:29 there were still challenge of the physical intimacy 25:32 but I literally said, 25:33 if you never got any better than this. 25:35 I'm a happy guy 25:37 because I feel so connected to you emotionally 25:39 and this is great stuff," that was a high day to realize, 25:44 "wow! 25:45 something amazing is happening here." 25:47 And even for... 25:48 as you're speaking, 25:50 I can see that little boy in you saying, 25:52 you know, I'm not gonna be alone. 25:53 I'm actually gonna feel what it feels 25:54 like to be loved in this life. 25:58 That's you. It's a miracle. 25:59 I think the other thing is realizing 26:01 that we really fight for each other 26:03 and we still fight each other. 26:04 True 'cause we're human. 26:05 'Cause it gives and that's the truth. 26:07 It is the truth. 26:08 You know, on bad days. 26:09 I just have to not be ashamed 26:11 to even call you up as my friend 26:12 and say, you know what? 26:13 Brad and I are just at each other. 26:15 Can you spend some time with us? 26:17 Okay. 26:18 I don't have to be ashamed of that anymore. 26:20 No, no, 26:21 and but to realize that 26:24 we're fighting for each other like, 26:26 so there's been times where we are not seeing eye to eye 26:30 and instead of going, "You are my enemy going. 26:32 No, we have an enemy and he is not gonna win here." 26:35 Right. 26:37 You know, and sometimes that only that 26:39 one sentence is what's needed... 26:40 Amen. 26:42 To switch things around and go, 26:43 "I don't like you. You are not my enemy." 26:45 Yeah. 26:46 And then to switch that, 26:47 so that we know we're on each other's team. 26:49 We had a classic example of this just recently, 26:51 you know, we've made a lifelong commitment 26:54 to keep working on growing our marriage. 26:56 So, I mean, so we still have a counselor 26:58 and we work with her regularly. 26:59 So let's look... 27:01 I wanna stop and say, let's come back to that 27:02 'cause we're gonna come back for the close. 27:05 I'd like you guys to join me. 27:06 I think that what you're gonna say 27:08 right now is gonna be so important for us to hear. 27:12 So stay with us and we'll be right back and man, 27:16 you do have an enemy but it's not each other. 27:18 I love that. 27:20 We'll be right back. Stay with us. |
Revised 2016-10-31