Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Damas Manderson
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000135A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:11 You know, there are times, 00:12 that there's trouble in paradise 00:14 and you question your very sanity, 00:16 don't think you're gonna make it and our guest today, 00:19 a friend of mine, is gonna talk about just that time for him, 00:22 it's amazing story. 00:24 Welcome to Celebrating Life and Recovery, 00:25 I'm Cheri, your host, come join us at the cafe. 00:57 We talk about changes in paradise, you know, 00:59 we're going to this whole season, 01:01 "Victory in Jesus." 01:02 The book is amazing, 01:04 if you want any other programs on the series 01:07 or you wanna go in depth about what we've talked about, 01:10 just go to the website called 3ABN, 01:13 go ahead and get the book. 01:15 On our website, 01:16 we'll post some of the stuff that we've covered 01:18 but on this particular chapter, 01:20 we're looking at a radical interchange 01:23 and as some people think radical interchange, 01:25 what does that mean? 01:26 Well, it's really obvious what it means 01:27 if you're heroin addict and all 01:29 and you've got to change your lifestyle 01:31 and you've gotta change, you know, 01:32 you're not relying on drugs and all that kind of stuff 01:35 but what happens when you're more... 01:38 And I hate to say normal 01:39 'cause I haven't met anyone normal yet. 01:41 I keep thinking I'm going to but, you know, 01:43 you're more acceptable 01:44 as far as this struggles that you have. 01:46 So, you know, I have been invited a ton of times 01:52 to New Zealand and I love, the people I've met there, 01:56 the ministries, 01:57 the folks that I've been involved with are, 02:00 they're off the chart, incredible folks. 02:02 And there's a girl that I worked with, Michelle, 02:04 and Michelle, if you're watching this, 02:06 I adore you, I adore you. 02:09 She is on fire for God, 02:12 she's really involved in a community, 02:15 if she see somebody that need to change, 02:16 she wants to kind of put some together 02:18 that is gonna help them. 02:20 So we're running our program, Celebrating Life and Recovery, 02:22 14 week program, we've done a number of... 02:26 Had it run in a number of churches, 02:27 Salvation Army, Assemblies of God, 02:30 the Adventist churches, 02:31 community centers, we've run it in prisons. 02:34 At one point, there was a 163 baptisms 02:37 at the end of one of the cycles of evangelism, 02:41 that one of the church uses. 02:43 So we would, I mean, we would... 02:44 Having a great time. 02:46 So Michelle invites me back, I fly in, I love her, 02:50 you know, we have this reunion, we go to It is Written, 02:53 which is another ministry that we work for there, 02:57 it's incredible 02:58 and this guy comes walking across the parking lot 03:02 and I have to say, 03:03 I looked at him and he was just, 03:06 there was a presence about him 03:07 that was so powerful as a man of God. 03:10 There was something that... 03:12 It just took me back, you know, 03:15 this is an incredible man I've got 03:16 but he looked beat up. 03:18 I mean, he looked beat up in ways 03:19 that I couldn't even understand and so then Michelle says, 03:22 "Oh, my brother is coming." 03:25 And I thought, "Your brother?" 03:26 'Cause I'm thinking and I gotta just say, 03:29 welcome to the program. 03:31 'Cause, you know, I'm talking about you. 03:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 03:33 So as you start walking up, Damas said, that I think, 03:37 you know, something is really seriously happening in his life 03:41 and I can see it in your eyes. 03:42 One of the things I noticed when we first met 03:45 is that you almost look like you were walking dead. 03:50 Do you know what I'm talking about? 03:52 I was the walking dead. 03:53 I said to you, "How're you doing?" 03:58 And I think you said, "Fine" at first. 04:00 I, of course, it's the polite thing to say, 04:02 "I'm fine, thank you." 04:04 And I kind of stepped into your space a little bit. 04:08 Just a little bit. 04:10 And I said, "How're you doing, really?" 04:12 Yeah, yeah, you kept to the chase and you, 04:17 yeah and I said what. 04:20 He said something like, you know, what? 04:24 "Today, I feel like dying, 04:27 I would love to just kill myself." 04:29 Your sister, everything in her changed. 04:33 I watched her lose the color in her face, 04:36 I watched her look at me like, you know, 04:38 I'm inviting you into work with the community 04:41 and my brother just said that and I didn't know that 04:44 and so I said, "You know what? 04:46 I want you and I just to talk for a minute." 04:48 And so you and I spent some time 04:51 and then I asked you to join us later. 04:53 Michelle even said, you gotta come out, 04:56 we need to talk. 04:58 And so tell me, 04:59 do you remember anything about that day 05:00 and the reason I ask you that, that was not long ago. 05:03 No. 05:04 But I think that you were so lost in your depression 05:09 and your despair 05:11 that I don't think you were remembering a lot. 05:14 No, I was, you know, 05:16 when people say you're out to lunch, 05:18 I was out to breakfast, lunch and dinner. 05:21 I was gone and doing my best to try and keep it together, 05:27 I mean, I was completely beaten up, 05:28 I was severely depressed. 05:32 Tell us a little bit about what got you to that day, 05:35 'cause you were Very successful in your life. 05:38 Yeah. That one point. 05:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeez, where do I start? 05:43 No, I start where my mother tried to beat me up 05:45 in the stomach and... 05:47 Yeah. 05:48 You know, tried to abort me and trying overdose on salt 05:50 which is really funny because 'cause I love salt 05:52 and I didn't find out 05:53 until I meet her at the age of 27, 05:55 when she confess that to me. 05:57 She probably thought I could dry up the fluid 06:00 or somehow get rid of this child. 06:01 Yeah, yeah, she would beat up, 06:02 I mean, people said, 'abortion.' 06:05 I've just realized that was attempt to murder. 06:06 Yeah. 06:08 So I suppose, 06:10 I wasn't exactly in a loving environment 06:11 for nine months. 06:13 So when I popped out, of course, 06:14 I didn't know any different and then my mother left, 06:18 you know, few years later and abandoned me, 06:20 so the fear of rejection, 06:21 the abandonment and feeling beat up, 06:23 was my entry into this world. 06:26 You were raised by grandparents... 06:27 And my grandparents... Different places... 06:29 Yeah, my dad's parents. 06:31 Jim and Pat Manderson they brought my sister and I, 06:34 which is an absolute blessing. 06:36 However, it didn't take away the pain 06:38 that I couldn't actually put a name to, 06:41 just wanting my mummy and daddy around, 06:44 you know, and so yeah, 06:46 just the beginning of my life was about, 06:49 I would be happy go lucky. 06:50 At school, I was known as the clown and... 06:52 Nobody knew. No one knew. 06:54 And I love what you're saying, 06:55 is that nobody knew any of this. 06:57 So you were really good at hiding everything. 07:01 You over achieved in a lot of different areas. 07:04 Yeah, the teachers would always say 07:07 that I was a very intelligent person 07:09 but I wasn't very good 07:10 at applying myself academically. 07:14 I shouldn't be proud of the fact 07:15 that I was the first student 07:16 to ever get kicked out of Bible class. 07:18 Were you? At school, yeah. 07:20 I think it still stands on this... 07:22 And I can't even believe 'cause your grandma, 07:25 in just when I first met her, she's like, 07:28 "Cheri Peters on 3ABN" and she's kissing me. 07:31 So she's very religious, 07:34 you were raised in that kind of environment, 07:36 went to, did you go to Christian school? 07:37 Yes. And kicked out of Bible. 07:40 Yes. 07:41 Yes, for asking questions, 07:46 which I found out later, 07:49 I'm really happy to ask questions, 07:51 but yes, so anyway going from there, 07:53 just go through school 07:54 and yeah, just be the clown and be happy 07:56 and I wasn't the kind of person that would get outwardly angry 08:00 and take it out on other people. 08:02 Ironically, I would beat myself up internally. 08:05 So... 08:06 In what sense, what did that look like? 08:09 Look, I don't need you put me down, 08:11 I can put myself down enough, thank you very much. 08:13 Right, so when you looked in the mirror... 08:15 Yeah, yeah, I didn't know who I was. 08:18 I didn't know my identity 08:19 as a son or as a man 08:26 or as a boy growing up. 08:28 What I knew is that I had these feelings 08:31 that I really couldn't put, I couldn't describe my feeling. 08:35 I say if that was probably, set up 08:38 to allow me to get depressed somewhere down the line. 08:41 So I would chase things, 08:42 I would try and chase happiness and... 08:45 And make it happen. Yeah. And make it happen. 08:47 And the end, you know, I left school 08:51 and I did an apprenticeship in carpentry. 08:53 And all I knew is I wanted to build my own house, 08:56 have my own flash car and a boat. 08:58 Yeah. And that was my desire. 08:59 And I'll be happy. 09:01 And I'll be happy and even then, 09:02 when I did my apprenticeship in carpentry, 09:04 I didn't really know what I wanted to do 09:05 but it was good that I was able to work with my hands. 09:08 And then, you know, 09:11 then I got introduced to the world 09:13 of summer camps in America in 1990 09:17 and that was the beginning of transformation in my life. 09:22 So how did you get from New Zealand 09:25 to summer camps in America? 09:27 I was, I walked away from the church 09:31 'cause I didn't feel loved and accepted there 09:34 and I ended up DJing in the number one night club 09:37 in Oakland for a little while and I didn't realize it 09:41 but that's where I found a fellowship, 09:42 that's where I found acceptance. 09:44 I belong there. 09:46 I belong and in the late '80s, 09:48 that was a pretty radical move 09:49 because the club that I DJed in, 09:53 was accepting for heterosexual and homosexual people, 09:56 so it really was outside the box. 09:59 And we all... 10:01 Heterosexual and homosexual, we all had one thing in common, 10:04 we desired to be accepted. 10:07 And so I fit in perfectly as far as that culture 10:10 and ended up DJing and... 10:14 So let me get it clear for somebody 10:15 that may not have heard you, is that sometimes they'll say, 10:18 "Well, if you were in a bisexual, heterosexual, 10:22 homosexual club, you're probably gay." 10:24 So you want to say, "I'm not gay..." 10:25 No. 10:27 "I had the same issues as everybody there, 10:28 that we just wanted to belong, we wanted to fit in..." 10:30 Yeah. "We wanted to have fun. 10:32 and we didn't wanna think about not being wanted, 10:34 being rejected, 10:36 dealing with all that craziness and that place..." 10:39 Yeah. "Gave us that brake." 10:40 Yeah, thanks for clarifying that. 10:42 Now I didn't go in as a gay person or... 10:44 Wanting to even go down that road, 10:47 it was a place where it took my mates, 10:49 12 months to get me down there 10:50 and what finally got me down there, 10:52 is I see these beautiful celebrities 10:53 and models down there and I feel very safe. 10:56 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, "Okay." 10:58 "Oh, There you got me there." 11:00 And then I realized that we're all people, 11:02 we're all people on a journey 11:04 just trying to find out their place 11:06 and fit into society. 11:08 Trying to survive. 11:09 And I've got, still got some close friends today 11:13 who are gay and I support them very much. 11:17 Of course, in a "normal." whatever you say normal is, 11:20 that is not necessarily acceptable. 11:21 So that was another hit against me 11:23 as far as rejection and stuff 11:24 because I got called all those names. 11:26 I got too coward that I was that 11:27 because I associated with, 11:29 but something deep inside of me said, 11:31 "Don't let go of that. 11:32 Don't let go of the friendships that you've made. 11:34 Look beyond..." 11:35 Yeah, and I wanna just clarify another thing 11:39 and the reason I do this 11:40 is that I don't want to lose anybody 11:41 that's kind of listening but we, yeah, 11:45 one of my best friends has been in the gay lifestyle 11:49 most of her life 11:50 and she asked me what do I think about gays 11:53 and I said, you know what? 11:54 I have, it's not my issue 11:55 and I have a ton of other issues 11:57 but what I think is God is just trying to get us home. 12:00 He's just trying to save us, 12:01 He's just trying to get us in our own skin. 12:03 So if anybody's gonna judge anybody on anything, 12:07 it's gonna be God Himself. 12:09 Everyone else, really has all our own thing 12:13 that we're gonna have to kind of answer for us. 12:16 So you're in this club, you're deejaying, 12:19 you finally find a place to fit and what happened from there? 12:24 'Cause you've really got successful in your journey. 12:27 Well, it actually, 12:31 what started me on my track back, 12:32 is I did a summer camp program 12:34 in the Blue Ridge Mounts of Virginia 12:36 and it was Christian, 12:38 the very thing I didn't wanna be around 12:40 but I ended up there. 12:42 The movies that we saw in New Zealand 12:43 were pretty good about summer camps, 12:45 you know, people got up to mischief 12:46 and had a little bit of fun and, you know, 12:48 push the boundaries 12:49 and that's why I felt summer camp was so perfect. 12:51 I'm just gonna act out and go skiing, waterskiing. 12:52 Where it's this fun. Yeah. 12:54 Yeah, and so I ended up at this camp 12:57 and that was the beginning of transformation of my life, 13:01 then I went back, I've got serious about business, 13:02 I mean, you know what? 13:04 If I wanna keep going back to the States 13:05 and giving my "little peace back" 13:07 or learning more about Jesus, then I need to. 13:12 Can I ask you, at summer camp, 13:14 what happened that all of the sudden, 13:17 got that attention of that kid, what happened that you're like, 13:21 you know, maybe there's something to this God thing? 13:25 You mean like, 13:27 what took me out of that environment 13:28 and enter into the camp environment? 13:30 Yeah, when you came back changed. 13:33 I came back changed, it was a battle. 13:37 For me, it was ten steps forward, 13:40 nine steps back. 13:41 Ten steps forward, 11 steps back, 13:43 ten steps forward, one step back. 13:44 That's been my journey in trying to discover who I am 13:49 and who I am in Jesus. 13:51 But that was enough to trigger me 13:52 into really entertaining 13:54 the entrepreneurial spirit in me 13:57 and I went on. 13:58 And when I meet Dina in '95, then I got really serious. 14:03 And Dina, explain who she is? 14:05 Dina is my wife and... 14:08 You fell in love? 14:09 Yeah, we fell in love, 14:10 I asked her to come back to New Zealand 14:12 to see if we're compatible for marriage 14:13 and eight weeks later, we eloped, that Christmas. 14:17 So we went back to the States and I asked her father 14:19 if I could marry her and he said, "Yes" 14:21 and then I said, "I got something to tell you." 14:23 And he said, "What?" And I said, "We're married. 14:26 But I'm glad we got the blessing first." 14:28 Yeah. 14:29 Of course, Dina's mother was upset 14:31 'cause she wanted the church, you know, the church thing... 14:33 In the white dress. 14:35 So one year later, we had it in America, 14:37 in La Porte, Indiana, 14:38 where my wife is from and we had a beautiful wedding. 14:42 I don't recommend doing it the way that we did 14:44 but, you know, we truly loved each other 14:46 and we're 20 years last year... 14:47 She's amazing. Twenty one years in August. 14:49 Yeah. Oh, she is amazing. 14:50 Yeah, yeah, to put up with me, especially. 14:52 Yeah. 14:54 So you guys get married, you get serious about, 14:57 you know, I really want to drive myself, 15:00 be successful. 15:02 Yes, and but the success, it was brilliant. 15:08 I mean, property development, 15:11 I started off buying and selling houses, 15:13 then I started renovating houses 15:15 and then I started doing speck houses 15:16 and then I went into, 15:18 going on to doing consultancy 15:20 and then doing little sub-divisions, 15:24 many sub-divisions. 15:26 And then I was able to consult other big developers in Oakland 15:29 and Oakland's the biggest city in New Zealand. 15:32 Things were going really good, I was very driven, 15:36 doing it for the right reasons, I thought... 15:39 You're right, successful in what you were doing. 15:40 And successful. 15:42 I got used to... 15:44 I loved the property development, I always, 15:46 having a wonderful relationship with Jesus 15:48 as I thought... 15:50 I got to just say, 15:51 I'm listening to your friend of yours one time 15:53 and because this is so far out of my realm 15:57 as far as thinking 15:58 but they were talking about developing some property 16:00 and so is John, John... 16:02 So John talked about developing property 16:05 and getting roads and water and all that kind of stuff 16:08 and if we could do this, this and this, 16:11 this five million dollar property, 16:13 ends up paying for itself and we could just move in there 16:16 and I'm like, "That is genius." 16:18 So it really is a different world. 16:21 But everything has to be considered 16:23 while you're improving the area, 16:27 how you're gonna get all that permits that you need, 16:29 all the roads that you need and all that kind of stuff. 16:32 But it's high energy, high intensity 16:33 and what I hear you saying 16:36 is, "I was very good at that, I loved it." 16:39 If could say so, yeah, I was passionate about it, 16:44 the whole development mindset of looking at something 16:47 and then visualizing 16:48 what it could end up looking like. 16:50 And then you implement the systems 16:52 and the strategies to get from A to Z 16:55 and I love that whole process. 16:57 And I realize, being a visionary, 16:59 I could actually see the end product 17:02 but then I knew, 17:03 end products only works with good details to start, 17:05 you know, the fist step. 17:07 So that's how I, that's how my business grew 17:10 and I ended up being a sort of a conundrum in the industry 17:14 'cause I had the local knowledge, 17:16 I had the respect of well to do developers, 17:20 they're like my IP. 17:22 And so life was good and I've had, you know, 17:27 the Lord blessed big time, He blessed the skill set 17:30 that He gave me 17:32 and then I was able to implement it 17:33 and through that, it came into a lot of good investments 17:39 that I held on to, along with selling others 17:41 and so by 2003, 17:43 when my second child came along, 17:45 I was with a few million dollars 17:47 and that felt really good. 17:49 Everything is right. Everything is right. 17:50 I have the boat, I have the house, 17:52 I have beautiful wife, my children... 17:53 Actually, you know what? 17:55 I didn't do the boat and I didn't do the house... 17:56 You did not do the boat... And I didn't do the car... 17:58 You're wait... 17:59 No, I thought, "Well, I can wait." 18:01 You know, I'm on a role here... 18:02 You're in New Zealand. 18:04 Yeah... You need a boat... 18:05 I know, I was thinking that's crazy. 18:06 But I was, I suppose delayed gratification 18:09 if you want to quote. 18:11 I would put it back into investments, 18:12 I'll put it back into my business 18:14 and I was serious about creating residual income. 18:17 I wanted to retire early, so I could go about, 18:20 at that time, I convinced myself or I can just go 18:22 and minister any where in the world for the Lord. 18:24 But once I get to this... Once I get to this point... 18:26 Once I have this much in the bank. 18:27 Once I get that point, you know, and yeah, 18:31 and that's what I found myself doing. 18:33 Just been very focused. 18:35 You are and I know I push you 18:38 when I even have you talk like this 18:41 but did you have a specific number, 18:43 once I get this much in the bank, 18:45 I actually can then pull back 18:48 and work for God, do ministry. 18:52 I did but the goal post keeps changing. 18:54 Okay. 18:56 So once I hit that particular million dollar figure. 18:59 Right, then it was two or five? 19:02 At that point it was five. 19:04 It just wasn't enough, I found myself thinking, 19:07 "Well, I can make that work more, 19:09 just a little bit more, just a little bit more." 19:11 So... 19:12 So when, man, I hope this makes sense 19:17 but there are times in our lives 19:19 when we are driven to seek after power 19:23 or that kind of thing, 19:25 from a place of power listeners as a child, 19:29 I don't think it ever really gets mad. 19:31 Like you said, it keeps changing on you. 19:34 But as a child I'm wondering If do I fit, 19:38 does anybody want me. 19:39 And now I'm able to do this, make a difference politically, 19:43 people know who you are, all that kind of stuff 19:46 but it doesn't, it's not enough. 19:48 You know, there was always anxiety, 19:50 there was always journey with me in this, 19:53 my business model and I couldn't shake it. 19:58 And, of course, that would depend 19:59 to a little bit of depression every now and then 20:01 but nothing, nothing major, 20:03 I could deal, just push through it. 20:05 But it was never, I found myself in a place 20:07 where it was never good enough 20:09 but I could justify myself in saying, 20:10 "Well, I'm doing it for the right reasons." 20:13 You know, I'm wealthy enough to stop 20:16 and live of my investments but now I just, 20:19 "Okay, Lord, let's work on the next deal. 20:21 Shall we?" 20:22 And I was very good at convincing myself 20:24 to think that on the surface level, 20:27 it was, "I, okay? 20:29 It was acceptable." 20:30 Literally, I'm taking this piece of land 20:32 and providing homes for families 20:35 and Income for the city and, you know, I mean, it's... 20:38 you know, I'm doing fair market, 20:39 I'm doing less than fair market value. 20:41 I'm actually doing society a favor. 20:43 I mean, yeah, I was really driven not to think 20:48 that my drive came from a very insecure place, 20:51 I didn't go there. 20:52 Right. 20:54 I learnt that afterwards but yeah, I felt completely... 20:56 I hope I wasn't the first one to tell you that? 20:58 You were. 21:00 I knew, you were gonna say that and it's really crazy... 21:03 You just wouldn't get away from me. 21:04 I wouldn't. 21:05 And what's really crazy to me is when you, 21:09 when I see the enemy just strategically drives us, 21:14 we are driven and we're driven by our anxiety 21:18 and our fear and whatever and it looks successful. 21:21 I mean, to me, I can't even imagine 21:25 the respect that you had in the community 21:27 and how successful it was 21:28 and how almost you could taste it 21:31 but not quite. 21:32 Not quite. Not quite, so what happens? 21:35 'Cause things start to turn. Things turn. 21:38 Well, in that process of getting into that point, 21:43 my son was born in 1999 and just quickly, 21:48 he was born and diagnosed with Down Syndrome. 21:51 And yeah, that was, that was... 21:54 I can't even imagine. 21:55 No, yeah, it took a long time and what was amazing 22:00 is our church stopped from the Friday night live program 22:04 and they all prayed 22:05 when we shared the news with them 22:06 and we're still at the hospital. 22:08 Cut that long story short, my son was anointed 22:11 and he is healed to normal today. 22:14 So I'm like, wow. Yeah. 22:17 You know, yeah, miracles do happen. 22:20 Right. 22:21 So talk to somebody, 22:22 I'm sure there was a good message 22:24 and something to learn from that 22:25 and maybe, I didn't quite get there at that time... 22:27 Right. 'Cause life continued. 22:30 But it was definitely a very real moment. 22:34 A very real moment. 22:36 When my son came out lifeless and then he was anointed 22:40 and he had cried for the first time 22:42 and that was like hours later and it was like the cry of joy, 22:44 it was like the cry of life. 22:46 I take him, I pick him up 22:47 and carry him over and give him to Dina 22:49 and it's like Dina and Miles were glowing. 22:52 And Miles, hours old, is able to lift up his hand 22:56 and started stroking Dina on the face 22:58 and to me it was saying, 22:59 "The comforter is with you, the Holy Spirit." 23:01 You know, Holy Spirit is in this room. 23:04 And we had that peace, 23:05 that transient little understanding 23:07 and I was like, wow, 23:09 and my mother was there and Michelle was there, 23:11 of course, Dina mom and I won't even forget that day. 23:14 It was, I walked away thankful and undeserving. 23:18 Well, get this, four years later, 23:20 life is good, business is going strong, 23:22 I'm at the pinnacle, you know, I'm in the position 23:25 where I can pick and choose what I want to do, 23:26 done the hard yards, victory for me. 23:29 Kennedy Rose is born, 2003 and she cries like a kitten, 23:35 you know, and that felt, "Oh, so gorgeous" 23:37 not realizing that she was born with a rare syndrome. 23:42 So they said to us that she has Cri-du-chat syndrome 23:47 which means cry of the cat, well, 5P minus. 23:50 And she's in the severe range of desolation, 23:53 so you can expect her 23:54 to have a maximum rate of mentality 23:56 of a three to four-year-child. 23:58 In her whole life? Right. Her whole life, max out. 24:01 Autistic spectrum, aggressive behavior, 24:03 she won't walk, she won't talk, you know, 24:06 she'll be tube feed, health and heart problems, 24:09 oh, and by the way, spontaneous death. 24:12 And I'm... 24:14 And you're standing there growing, 24:15 I can buy and sell most things, 24:17 I can literally change everything 24:20 but I can't change this. 24:22 Can't change this. 24:23 So I walked out of there thinking, 24:26 "Okay, anointing, yeah." 24:29 Right. 24:30 So had her anointed and nothing, 24:34 they get her anointed again, nothing. 24:36 Anointed again, nothing. 24:38 By this time I'm like, "All right, God, 24:42 are You in the lottery business? 24:44 "Because the last time I checked, 24:45 you healed my son. 24:47 Now you're not healing my daughter 24:48 and on top of that, 24:50 she's got a syndrome that is so, 24:52 it's just worst than Down's. 24:54 If you give me a choice, 24:55 I would choose Down's over this one. 24:57 I mean, my daughter can die anytime, 24:59 I mean, come on for real" 25:01 and I started getting angry, 25:03 my whole world started falling apart. 25:05 At that point, we were going over to the States anyway to, 25:08 I was gonna be Assistant Director 25:11 at a summer camp, Christian program, 25:12 in Virginia again. 25:14 I was very just addicted to youth, family, 25:16 restoration camps and... 25:19 And now when you say addicted, 25:22 I know that you loved what you did. 25:25 You believed in family, 25:27 you believed in all that kind of stuff. 25:28 So this was not that I did this just because I could 25:31 and it was that this is what you believed in. 25:35 Oh, yeah, I mean, any chance we could. 25:37 Dina and I and the family, 25:38 we were always at the time, 25:39 we would always go back to the States 25:41 and give our part back to youth ministries 25:43 and family ministries. 25:44 I believe in the core of the family 25:46 to have their happiness in Christ. 25:49 I just didn't realize that mine was quite superficial 25:53 until we had this, yeah... 25:58 Crisis. Yeah, the crisis. 25:59 You know, everything and what's incredible to me 26:05 is when you said, "Is it a lottery? 26:07 You know, where are you God?" 26:08 That kind of anger. 26:10 When you're saying to Him, "What's up with this?" 26:13 I was. You need to answer to me. 26:15 Yup, yup, which is the first clearer. 26:19 I know, but we say it... 26:20 But at the time, I mean, I had a hard time, 26:24 I mean, I went to the States and we did that. 26:28 Here I'm thinking, I didn't wanna go to America 26:31 to pursue medical treatments for my daughter. 26:35 So what ended up is going there for two month vacation 26:37 and doing the youth ministries. 26:40 I ended up in a search of medical support 26:44 for my daughter 'cause geneticist said, 26:47 "New Zealand is not big enough to support this syndrome, 26:49 we have eight documented of which four are alive today, 26:53 ever at the time and four have passed away." 26:57 And I went, if it's supposed to be, 27:00 you know, spontaneous death and sort of, 27:03 can happen but it's rare, 27:04 50 percent of the cases had died, 27:08 knowing that's not good enough for me, 27:10 I tried to get private help, no private help. 27:12 Everything's... 27:14 It's socialized medicine and stuff and probably, 27:16 it's just very busy. 27:17 And so my wife being American, we went over there to... 27:21 We'll find a specialist in the State. 27:23 In the pursuit of happiness, yes. 27:24 Yeah, and we ended up and when we went back, 27:28 we did the Virginia thing and I thought, 27:29 "I can live in Virginia." 27:31 So Virginia didn't have the base program and I said, 27:33 "Lord, I'll go anywhere in America 27:35 expect La Porte, Indiana. 27:37 Please not Indiana, I'm sorry." Well, guess where He puts me? 27:40 La Porte, Indiana. Absolutely. 27:42 And I'm like, "Okay, so I got from beautiful hills 27:45 and ponds and lakes and oceans to corn fields 27:47 and soybean fields." 27:50 Which was the beginning of my journey 27:52 of being completely and totally broken. 27:56 I would like to stop there and just and take a break 27:59 and come back because when you are at that place 28:04 and it's not broken 'cause I can't pay for this, 28:07 it's not broken 'cause I don't have the means, 28:09 it's broken 'cause I literally don't know 28:12 how to breathe next. 28:13 I don't know how to speak into my wife who is looking, 28:19 I don't know how to speaking to my family, 28:20 I don't know how to do any of that kind of stuff. 28:22 So we're gonna come back and find out what happens 28:24 because it absolutely is amazing. 28:27 But if you are struggling with wondering if, 28:30 "God, this is a lottery to you?" 28:32 What I learned bout God is He says, 28:34 "I promise you, I plan evil for no one, 28:37 this was not my fault, this was not my issue." 28:40 And so we're gonna come back 28:42 and talk a little bit more about that. 28:43 So stay with us, it's amazing, it's an amazing journey. |
Revised 2016-11-07