Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Mike Carducci
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000002
00:09 When most boys grow up at some point
00:10 they start liking girls
00:12 and as most girls grow up at some point
00:14 they start liking boys.
00:16 But it doesn't always happen that way.
00:18 We're gonna talk about this
00:20 on the next edition of Coming Out.
01:06 Welcome back to part two of Coming Out
01:09 special series produced by White Horse Media
01:11 and its dealing with homosexual issues,
01:14 lesbian issues, the Bible, Jesus Christ
01:17 and God's love and grace for all.
01:21 I'm here now with Mike Carducci who is also a cofounder,
01:26 one of the cofounders of Coming Out Ministries.
01:29 He's traveled quite a ways to get here
01:31 and we just want to again--
01:33 as I welcome Wayne I welcome you.
01:35 Thank you for joining us for this special program.
01:39 Thank you, Steve. It's awesome to be here.
01:41 Yeah it's awesome to have you.
01:42 We don't know each other that well but feel a connection.
01:45 Oh, you will.
01:46 A connection in Christ. Right.
01:48 We don't have the same background
01:50 but there is a verse in the Bible in Romans 3:23
01:55 that says that "all have sinned,
01:57 and come short of the glory of God."
01:58 So whatever sin we fallen into we all have a common bond
02:03 whatever it is that we are sinners
02:06 and that we need, we need a Savior.
02:08 Amen. Amen.
02:09 Mike, one thing I want to ask you
02:10 which I was going to ask Waynee
02:12 but I forgot and that is,
02:14 is this kind of content really appropriate for kids?
02:18 I'm sure there's parents that are watching this
02:21 and maybe they're wondering,
02:22 you know, should I let my ten-year-old
02:24 or my twelve-year-old
02:25 or my eight-year-old sit in on this series?
02:28 So what's your thought on that?
02:30 Well, one thing I found Steve,
02:31 is you know the more places that I speak
02:34 and we even spoken at a grade schools,
02:37 you know, seventh grade and younger
02:39 but what we found is that
02:40 the kids are getting an education
02:42 whether you're in charge of that or not,
02:43 you know, from the school and the things that they,
02:46 you know, handheld devices
02:47 that have access to the Internet
02:49 and what we found is that
02:50 if a parent is willing to watch this
02:53 and to encourage dialogue afterwards
02:56 what you start doing is taking the dirtiness out of it
02:59 and the child can actually find a connection to the parent
03:02 to start being open and to, you know,
03:04 start to get healing if they've been defiled
03:07 and also to give them tools that if something does happen
03:10 or if they start to have questions or temptations
03:13 that they've already got this established relationship
03:16 where they can open a dialogue with their parent.
03:18 I think would be very beneficial
03:20 but of course maybe a parent would want to view the--
03:22 The content first. Sure.
03:24 And obviously,obviously
03:25 parents have to make their own decisions.
03:27 We certainly leave it up to your conscience
03:28 but think the reality is that
03:31 there's a whole host of kids out there
03:33 that are already being exposed two things that are not good
03:38 and are not being presented in a biblical way.
03:41 And so for a large percentage for kids
03:43 we think that this is something
03:45 that they probably really do need to hear
03:48 and we will do our best by the grace of God
03:51 to keep things as clean as possible.
03:53 You know, we all have that dirtiness in our past
03:56 that we don't want to you know take a bath in
03:59 but there are things we do need to talk about
04:02 because we need to relate
04:03 to our fellow sinners in the world
04:05 who struggle with things that are very real
04:07 and that need to be talked about.
04:10 So that's why we're doing this.
04:12 So again thank you for being here
04:13 and Mike, why don't you just, you know, go back
04:16 and start telling us your story.
04:18 I know that with-- in Wayne's case
04:21 as he looks back he had a very difficult time with his mother
04:25 and understand that with you it was really your father.
04:29 So time is yours just start talking.
04:33 Well, when I came back to God I-- I wanted to know
04:36 why this thing had come to me and you know I thought
04:39 that I was born gay from my earliest moments.
04:42 I remember on liking to do what girls like to do.
04:45 I like dressing up in my mom's clothes
04:46 and playing with dolls and I had three sisters.
04:50 So basically when I put that to God
04:52 He started to answer me through different sermons
04:55 that I was hearing and going to camp meeting
04:57 and one of the things that, that I found was
05:01 this thing called defensive detachment.
05:03 And so they talk about how every child
05:05 is born with wet cement.
05:06 You know they're--
05:07 they have no identity masculine or feminine
05:09 but what happens as a little boy turns to like a year old
05:12 between a year old and three years old
05:14 what happens is the little boy
05:15 starts to identify that he doesn't have
05:18 you know the same parts that mom has
05:19 but he has the same parts that dad has.
05:21 So in a healthy relationship
05:23 the little boy starts wearing baseball caps backwards
05:25 because that's what his dad wears
05:27 or he starts wearing cowboy boots
05:29 because that's what dad does.
05:30 And so he starts to make this connection or transference
05:33 from the mother to the father
05:34 and that helps to harden the cement in the masculine.
05:38 For a boy. Excuse me.
05:40 Right and so the girl it's different, it's different
05:43 but some of the same gender identity
05:47 mix-up happens I think at an early age.
05:50 For me what happened is when my father was around
05:52 he was in the Navy he began--
05:54 What state, what state were you in?
05:56 Where did you grew up? South Carolina.
05:57 South Carolina. In Virginia.
05:58 And you had a mother
06:00 that was in your home and your father
06:01 but you didn't see him as much?
06:02 Right, dad would be gone sometimes
06:04 three to six months at a time on a cruise
06:06 and so at a time when I needed that
06:08 that example he wasn't available.
06:10 So for me even though the reality was he was,
06:14 you know, providing for his family
06:15 and doing what his job was for me
06:17 I view that as abandonment.
06:19 But then when my dad was home he was as hot headed Italian,
06:22 he was abusive in his discipline
06:23 and so for me I looked at that
06:26 and I thought if that's my gender identity no, thank you
06:29 and the only are option I had was my mother.
06:32 So I had the three sisters
06:34 there was no other male in the home
06:36 to give me an example of what that look like.
06:38 And so there was this deficit but I did know how to fix it
06:42 and so I reverted back to my mother.
06:43 I start playing with dolls and I believe that
06:46 what happened is my cement became affirmed in the famine.
06:49 And so I didn't know how to change it,
06:50 I don't know how to fix it
06:52 and so then when I went to school
06:53 and the kids started to see that
06:55 you know, how the kids got some issues
06:56 and they started to call me sissy, queer, faggot,
07:00 you know all those terms.
07:01 What that did is that pushed away masculinity even further.
07:04 And what age would you say that was?
07:06 From the earliest I can remember.
07:07 I can't even give you an age.
07:08 And was this an Christian school?
07:11 No, not necessarily.
07:12 No, public school. You went to public schools.
07:13 Right, I didn't go-- I didn't become a Christian
07:15 until I was about 14 but I knew who God wise
07:19 and I believe that God was there.
07:21 I even prayed that God would change me.
07:23 I prayed that the next morning I would wake up as a girl
07:25 and I thought well, that would be the problem fixed.
07:28 But he didn't understand
07:29 how this gender identity was something
07:32 that was broken and how to fix it.
07:34 And so for a little kid I was just going
07:35 through the motions, very frustrated,
07:38 unable to relate to not only my gender
07:40 but knew that I was different.
07:42 So you felt like you should have been a girl?
07:46 And I'm just curious
07:47 I'm certainly not an expert in this area
07:49 but I know people say well, some say
07:51 it's your genes some say
07:54 it's what's going on with mom and dad
07:56 and then others say well, you know
07:57 maybe it not might be either one of those
07:59 but as you grow older when you get to be,
08:01 you know, teenager you're exposed
08:02 to more of the influence of Hollywood
08:04 and you just, you check it out.
08:06 So there's various opinions about
08:09 why a person has same-sex attractions.
08:12 In your case as you look back
08:14 do you see it as really a father issue
08:18 that that was that contributed to your feelings for a man
08:22 and wishing that you were girl is that?
08:25 It became so clear to me, actually in my 40s
08:28 after I had come back to the Lord
08:30 and was walking in church culture
08:33 it was all of a sudden that I started to realize that
08:36 that from my earliest thoughts
08:37 I remember now not necessarily being gay,
08:41 not having an attraction to same-sex
08:43 but I-- the feeling that I wanted to be a girl
08:46 that I thought that I should have been a girl
08:48 and if I to had a sex change at an early age
08:51 what they are doing now 14, 15-year-old
08:53 boys are having sex changes into a girl
08:55 and vice versa if that would happen for me
08:58 because what happened is when I came out
08:59 into the gay culture at 19 years old and 20
09:03 all of a sudden all of that gender dysphoria left me.
09:06 I realized that masculinity was more valuable in gay culture
09:11 then they're not and so if I had a sex change
09:13 I can't even imagine how much more complicated
09:15 that would have been for me
09:16 but I do realize that there was this change
09:20 and I didn't know how it came
09:22 but as I ask God to show and to reveal that to me
09:24 I realized that that this was something
09:28 that happened before I was even conscious
09:30 and I wasn't in charge.
09:31 And that was incredible insight that that--
09:35 Did you-- as you were growing up
09:37 were you reading the Bible or did you go to church,
09:39 did you hear scripture?
09:41 You said that you were praying
09:43 and asking God to change you into girl
09:47 and you thought if He would just do that
09:48 then all my problems will be solved.
09:50 Where did you learn about praying?
09:52 I mean, I look at back in my life
09:54 growing up in the Hollywood Hills
09:55 and I really, I pretty much connected with my mom
09:58 and then definitely connected with my dad
10:00 and when I became a teenager
10:01 I was definitely attracted to girls
10:04 but I was having a hard time controlling that.
10:07 As I got into my teenage years
10:08 because we didn't have the Bible,
10:09 we didn't pray, we didn't, we didn't talk about Jesus
10:11 and also I was pretty much on my own
10:13 to deal with all these emotions and these feelings and desires
10:16 that pretty much got the better of me
10:18 until I was 20.
10:19 Then I read the Bible
10:20 and that's when everything changed.
10:22 So I'm interested to know well, how did the Bible get in,
10:25 I didn't even know how to pray.
10:26 I wouldn't have known to pray when I was 12-years-old.
10:29 Well, I was raised as a Catholic as a young person
10:32 and I went to catechism every weekend
10:35 I really didn't join the Protestant church
10:37 until about 15.
10:39 My father had an affair with a backslidden Christians
10:43 and they got together
10:44 and that's kind of how we got into--
10:46 how the Protestant message got into our family.
10:49 But I did know God at an early age
10:51 and I saw Him as punitive, arbitrary
10:55 just kind of like I saw my dad.
10:57 Dad wasn't really available to me
10:59 and so the only way that I could relate to a God
11:01 who called himself father was I guess
11:03 He had the same attributes as the father that I had.
11:06 So even though I prayed that he would change my gender
11:11 I still saw him as arbitrary, judgmental the same things
11:14 that I had rejected from my father.
11:16 I saw God that way.
11:18 I always knew the God existed and I believed in Him
11:21 but I basically thought that He didn't care much for me.
11:24 He wasn't very appealing.
11:26 Yes, and He wasn't unavailable to me.
11:28 He is just an authority out there
11:30 that you better do the right thing or else there is no,
11:32 there was no compassion in His heart for you.
11:34 You didn't feel that. No.
11:36 You know, well, another question,
11:39 personally I wish that in this series
11:42 you know we interviewed Wayne
11:43 we are interviewing you, we have Pastor Ron Woolsey
11:46 who'll be coming next sharing his story.
11:49 I wish that we had a lady that it just didn't work out
11:52 but to have her, share her story
11:54 because homosexuality, lesbianism
11:57 I know that women are complicated
11:58 but do you think that
11:59 there's some of the same issues going on with women
12:02 who as they're growing up eventually
12:04 they choose or feel attraction to another woman
12:09 and with men with men you know,
12:10 I would like to just ask you a question.
12:12 Right, I can't really speak specifically
12:15 but I have other friends
12:16 that have come out of the lesbian lifestyle.
12:18 And one story that that impresses me
12:20 in particular is this girl was raised
12:24 not receiving the love from her father
12:26 but the father lavished
12:27 a lot of attention on her older brother
12:30 and so she thought that if she was a better boy
12:33 that her father would love her more.
12:35 And so that started to do this
12:36 gender dysphoria for her as well.
12:38 She started to become, you know, more boy like
12:41 and wearing boys clothes
12:43 and had the same gender dysphoria
12:44 that I had experienced.
12:45 And so you each one of us
12:47 has incredibly different scenarios
12:50 or you know experiences that shaped us
12:52 and yet some other things are very similar as well.
12:56 You know, I also understand that there was a moment
12:59 or an event of major trauma for you
13:02 that contributed to your eventual plunge
13:08 or choice diving in to a gay lifestyle
13:12 and just elaborate on that a little bit
13:14 this traumatic event that you--
13:15 Okay. Told me that you had.
13:17 Yeah, will the traumatic event was actually
13:20 when I was a junior in high school in a boarding school
13:23 and the roommate that I got--
13:26 I didn't know anyone at the school
13:27 and so the roommate I got was
13:28 experienced in juvenile detention
13:30 and he was there basically court-ordered
13:33 and he recognized things in me
13:35 I'm sure and you know one night
13:37 the wrestling turned into something more
13:39 and I had my first homosexual experience
13:42 there in this Christian boarding school
13:44 and remember what was so traumatic for me
13:46 Steve, was that when I went to bed that night
13:48 I realize that indeed I was the one thing
13:50 that everyone that accused me of being
13:52 that I gone to bed that night
13:53 and it referring to me that I indeed was gay
13:57 and that God couldn't help me or He didn't help me.
14:00 I remember going to bed and thinking
14:03 that it actually satisfied something in me.
14:05 It actually-- I think what was
14:07 so shocking was that it affirmed to me
14:09 that I indeed was attracted to this.
14:13 And so I remember you know
14:15 going into the next Bible conference
14:18 that they had at the school,
14:19 I gave my heart to the Lord I got a girlfriend,
14:21 I started to do all the right things,
14:22 my roommate got kicked out.
14:24 But even at 17
14:25 I prayed that the Lord would take my life.
14:27 I said, I don't want to live like this
14:29 and I asked Him take my life right,
14:31 if that was as close as we were gonna get.
14:32 So it was a conflict and you recognize
14:34 that you part of you liked it
14:37 but another part of you said I don't want this.
14:38 Right, right.
14:40 Lord, take it out of me
14:41 and you still had desires to follow Jesus.
14:44 Right, but I was still addicted to,
14:47 to masturbation and fantasy
14:49 and that had happened at 13 years of age.
14:52 And so because it not only was that same-sex attracted
14:55 but I believed that I wasn't,
14:58 I believe that that actually was something
15:01 that was keeping God from being able to help me even more
15:03 because the process wasn't about becoming straight
15:06 I was praying for the wrong thing.
15:08 What I wanted, what I needed
15:10 I believe was that I needed to understand
15:12 and to be affirmed by masculinity.
15:15 I needed to know what masculine affirmation was
15:18 and gender identity was that wasn't sexualized.
15:21 And so by the time I was 20-years-old
15:23 I went out into the gay lifestyle,
15:25 I was so desperate to have this affirmation this,
15:31 this intimacy with the man whether it was sexualize or not
15:34 I was definitely seeking it.
15:36 And Proverbs 27:7 it talks about to somebody
15:38 that just had a full meal that you don't need dessert
15:41 but to somebody who's starving
15:43 even something bitter will taste sweet
15:44 and so that was the driving force for me.
15:46 I had this demand to be filled by masculine love
15:49 because I didn't know how to get it in a legitimate way
15:52 I ended up going into the gay bars
15:54 and my first experience with the first boyfriend
15:57 that I had was actually that I was raped
16:00 and I didn't even realize that into my 40s
16:02 after coming out of all this realizing
16:04 that I was so desperate for any time
16:06 or attention that this person gave me
16:08 that I actually was willing to be submitted
16:10 to this rape several times
16:14 and I didn't even realize the connection
16:15 until after coming out of it
16:17 that regardless of this drive that had within me it still,
16:23 it still turned out to be this rape.
16:25 So how many years would you say you openly lived that life.
16:29 Twenty years. Twenty years.
16:30 And as we got near the end to the 20 years
16:34 what happened to end those 20 years
16:36 and begin a new period in your life?
16:38 Right, I was hoping to have a monogamous relationship.
16:41 I thought that that if I could have
16:42 a monogamous relationship
16:43 that God would bless it and that that would be the best
16:46 that I could do because--
16:47 With a man or a woman? Yes, with a man.
16:49 Okay, you wanted a monogamous relationship with a man.
16:52 And so the first relationship that I was in it was a guy
16:55 that was about nine years older than me
16:56 and he introduced me to all kinds of sexual behaviors
17:01 and eventually within-- I'd say within two years
17:04 I become a sexual addict.
17:05 Acting out sexually in the five relationships
17:08 that I was in, in the 20 years I was never faithful
17:11 and what was this driving force
17:14 all I really wanted to be was affirm by a man
17:17 but what happen is it got twisted somehow
17:20 and the enemy was able to use that
17:22 and to create this addiction that
17:25 that I was never able to brake,
17:26 never able to be monogamous
17:28 in of the relationship I was in--
17:30 So what changed what, what change that?
17:32 Well, a lot. So anyway--
17:34 One short version. Right, right, right.
17:36 So anyway the night before I got baptized
17:38 I made my stand for the Lord.
17:40 Now how you decide to get that done?
17:41 Oh, it's a long time.
17:43 My sister had got remarried to her ex-husband.
17:46 I saw the Holy Spirit in him I came back to Florida,
17:49 my other sister invited me to an evangelistic series
17:52 and I didn't realize about my sisters had been praying
17:55 and to anyone who-- who is praying
17:58 for their loved ones or whatever
17:59 I just want to really encourage them
18:00 that intercessory prayer it works
18:02 because it pulled me out.
18:04 So anyway I was in a relationship
18:05 with this millionaire good-looking guy
18:09 that had big blue eyes and a convertible Mercedes
18:11 and I mean, I was at the top of my game
18:13 and what happened is
18:15 my sister invited me to an evangelistic series
18:17 and I don't know why but I went.
18:19 And so on the last night of the evangelistic series
18:21 I made a stand to be baptized
18:24 and my sister asked me outside in the parking lot
18:26 what I was going to do about my boyfriend.
18:28 Man, I looked to her and I said I'm gay.
18:29 I was born this way, I tried to change,
18:31 I asked God to change me that never happened.
18:33 I said, all I know is that Jesus loves me for who I am.
18:37 I said and that's why I'm getting baptized.
18:39 And my sister stop and the next day
18:41 I was baptized with the sexual addiction
18:43 and a boyfriend
18:45 but I began this journey with Jesus Christ
18:47 and even in my ignorance and even in everything
18:50 that happened to me
18:52 it's like the Lord was very slowly revealing to me
18:55 the different things that had defiled me,
18:57 the different ways
18:58 that the enemy had put knots in my ropes
19:01 and very slowly the Lord was able to unravel those knots
19:04 and it took, it took time.
19:06 There was no, you know, bing, magic wand over my head
19:09 and I was straight and ready the date, mate
19:11 and all that kind of stuff so process.
19:13 It wasn't an instant cure?
19:15 No and you know Steve, I really struggle
19:16 because I thought that I was doing
19:19 something wrong again thinking
19:21 that I had to be perfect with that, I had to be good.
19:24 I didn't recognize there was Christ goodness in me
19:27 that gave me victory and that took a long time.
19:30 Yeah, I've read recently that the Christian life is not,
19:33 it's not an elevator where you get in
19:35 and you go to the top floor.
19:37 It's a stair, stairway. So you go step-by-step.
19:40 God takes you where you are and even though
19:42 we're all messed up in lots of ways all of us
19:45 God works with us step-by-step
19:47 and He changes as maybe not as fast
19:50 as we would like to be changed
19:51 but if we stick with it and keep trusting Him
19:54 and keep following the Bible and choosing that we want
19:57 Jesus more than some of our own desires
20:01 which may not be right.
20:02 Right so Steve, where was that information?
20:05 I could have used that because I thought
20:06 that I needed to get baptized again
20:08 or maybe I needed to get anointed again
20:10 because I was looking for this instant change.
20:12 I didn't realize that this was a process
20:15 because God knew that it was going to take time
20:17 to change my understanding about Him and about the Father
20:20 and so He couldn't give it to me all at once
20:22 because I couldn't handle that.
20:24 So He gave it to me as I could handle it.
20:26 That's right, and it was always my decision.
20:29 You know, a lot of people, you know, in other ministries
20:32 or whatever look at my colleagues
20:34 and I and they say that we're still gay.
20:36 And you know that's not the case
20:37 because this has always been my decision
20:39 God never forced me to choose.
20:41 You know what it be easier to just stay
20:43 at the way that I was but what was so incredible
20:46 as I walked with God He only gave me
20:48 what I could handle and at my decision
20:51 it was always my choice to continue or to not
20:54 and what's incredible
20:55 Jesus always respected my right to choose.
20:58 And so today, now you went 20 years
21:02 you grew up and went 20 years
21:04 and then it's been how long since you came out?
21:07 Thirteen. Thirteen years?
21:09 So and now today God has continued to change you,
21:13 He is doing wonderful things in your life
21:15 and you are now part of Coming Out Ministries.
21:17 Just tell us in a nutshell what is Coming Out Ministries,
21:21 you know, from your perspective,
21:22 your heart, what's your burden,
21:23 what's your message, what are you doing now?
21:26 And give us just a quick recap.
21:30 So when we started this ministry
21:33 and the Lord started moving me
21:35 just by invitations to come and speak just about
21:37 my history of coming out of the homosexual lifestyle
21:40 what I realize now is that homosexuality is no different
21:44 according to the Bible then than any other sexual sin.
21:47 And what we've done in Christian societies
21:49 we taken homosexuality out
21:51 and we've made it this entity of its own.
21:54 But basically from what I understand in the Bible
21:56 and the responses that I get when I speak
21:58 is that homosexuality is no different
22:00 and it ends up back in the lump with all the other sexual sin
22:04 and that God has to have the answer for that.
22:06 Because my struggle was not only
22:08 for just homosexual feelings and identity
22:11 but it was also over sexual sin the pornography
22:14 and the addiction the sexual addiction.
22:17 Whenever I speak I speak to pastors,
22:19 I speak to young men, young women,
22:21 older men, older women,
22:23 singles ministries, men's ministries,
22:25 academies and universities
22:26 and what I find is the same issue
22:28 that I had is the same issue
22:30 that many young men and women of any age have
22:33 is the struggle with sexual sin and what a find
22:36 is that the answer is still the same.
22:38 And so it isn't specific to one area or another,
22:42 what I find is that
22:43 this ministry really speaks to all of us.
22:45 You know, are you really different today
22:50 than what you were 30 years ago?
22:54 You are not the same man? No, no.
22:56 You are genuinely changed. Right, right.
22:58 Now you are probably not done,
22:59 you know, I heard somebody once say that
23:01 God doesn't take a side to the oven half-baked.
23:04 He has a lot of work to do with us
23:05 and He is working with me and He is working with you
23:07 but you know in your own mind and in your heart
23:11 that you made a lot of progress.
23:13 Steve, the hardest thing has been this,
23:16 this constant surrender.
23:18 I have to surrender myself every day.
23:20 I don't have the luxury of surrendering myself
23:22 once in the morning
23:23 and being good for the rest the day.
23:25 I have to surrender myself constantly
23:27 throughout the day to my thoughts, my feelings
23:30 and Philippians 2:5 is for me.
23:33 You can hang most of my home ministry on that verse alone.
23:36 With does it say?
23:37 It says "Let this mind be in you,
23:40 which was in Christ Jesus."
23:41 And to me that's invitational.
23:43 It's saying give me permission to let my mind inside Your mind
23:47 and so whether that has to do with thoughts of masturbation
23:51 or pornography or even same-sex attraction.
23:54 What happens is if I give God permission
23:56 and that's what I've been practicing is I will say
23:58 Lord, I'm giving You permission to take these thoughts
24:01 because if You don't take these thoughts
24:03 I know that they're gonna take me to place
24:05 that You say I shouldn't go.
24:06 And so when I give Him permission--
24:08 one time that had happened
24:10 I was stepping into the shower and the thought to,
24:12 you know, to indulge in sin came
24:14 and just then the Holy Spirit spoken said,
24:16 why don't you claim that promise?
24:17 And I said, I'm giving You permission
24:19 Lord, to take these thoughts because if You don't
24:21 I'm gonna indulgence in sin, right.
24:23 And what was on incredible is my next thought
24:25 was about baseball and I hate baseball.
24:28 What was so incredible
24:29 is that God took me immediately where I was,
24:32 He gave me victory immediately.
24:34 I didn't have to step out of the shower
24:36 and fast for five days and look up,
24:38 you know, scriptures for an hour
24:40 to get the relief that I was seeking.
24:42 He was an immediate God on to Him
24:44 who is able to keep you from falling right.
24:46 The present help in time of trouble.
24:48 So Mike, are you happier now today than you were
24:53 when you lived an openly gay lifestyle.
24:56 Well, it almost seems it doesn't seem
25:00 even genuine to just say, yes.
25:01 Its Steve, infinitely better
25:04 is my life now than it's ever been before
25:06 and even though I'm under incredible scrutiny
25:09 and criticism I can still tell you that
25:12 I would rather be in the arms of Jesus now
25:14 than the arms of the gay lifestyle.
25:17 Well, when Wayne was here
25:18 and we were discussing his story
25:19 I could hear you in the background
25:21 before we were on that camera with Wayne
25:24 I could hear you singing and humming your,
25:26 you know, Christian songs like
25:27 my little boy he his nine-years-old
25:29 and I heard him just singing about
25:31 Jesus around the house the other day
25:32 and through it my heart like
25:33 I heard the same thing from you.
25:35 So it just shows me that you are genuinely
25:38 happy with your life and happy to be here,
25:41 happy to share story
25:43 and that this is very real to you
25:45 and that God is real to you and is that you know,
25:47 if you put it in nutshell your message now
25:49 is you're out there in colleges,
25:51 universities, academies,
25:53 young people, older people,
25:55 with pastors sharing your story.
25:57 What in a nutshell would you say your message is?
26:01 The message really is about getting to know God.
26:04 It's invitational.
26:06 He is wanting us to know Him on such an intimate level
26:08 and you know what, when I started to see Him
26:11 on an intimate level then it started to give me
26:14 the desire to want to let go the things that define myself.
26:18 And as I saw Him more and more what happened is
26:22 things started to fall off no matter where I went
26:24 and I started to see the victorious life
26:26 that I could have been Him and I thought
26:28 that it came at a huge sacrifice
26:29 to give up the things that I love
26:31 but really when I started to let those go the things
26:34 that I received Steve, they were more powerful
26:36 and better and stronger than I had ever experienced before.
26:39 So God is not just a the father figure
26:42 you used to think of Him as being
26:43 but now he is God of love who has changed your life.
26:46 Well we're winding down here with program two,
26:49 we got another testimonial.
26:51 Pastor Ron Woolsey will be next.
26:54 I can't help but go back to this verse
26:56 so I want to go back to the verse in 1 Peter 2:9
26:59 that talks about God who has called you,
27:02 He's called you out of darkness and into His marvelous light.
27:08 I got Mike story.
27:09 Mike has his story, Wayne has his story,
27:12 Pastor Ron has his story.
27:13 There are many others stories that we can share that we know
27:17 and other people can share about how God is good
27:21 and that His light is marbles.
27:24 He can change our lives, He can heal us,
27:26 He can forgive us and give us
27:28 peace and power to live for Him.
27:31 So don't go away
27:32 we've got another program part three of Coming Out.
27:35 So join us again.
27:38 If you'd like to order the 13-part
27:40 Coming Out stories for $34.95 plus shipping
27:43 call 1-800-782-4253
27:46 or write to White Horse Media,
27:48 PO Box 1139, New Port, Washington 99156.
27:52 Pastor Ron Woolsey, Wayne Blakely
27:54 and Mike Carducci are each available
27:56 to conduct a seminar in your area.
27:58 To schedule a speaking engagement
27:59 contact Coming Out Ministries by calling 360-936-8514
28:05 or visit comingoutministries.org.