Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Ron Woolsey, Mike Carducci
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000009
00:09 "Can you Pray the Gay Away?"
00:12 That's our topic next on Coming Out.
01:02 Welcome to part nine of Coming Out.
01:04 This is a special series that we really hope
01:07 is something that will help to heal hurting hearts,
01:11 that's what this is all about.
01:13 And I'm Steve Wohlberg, and I'm here
01:14 again in our studio
01:16 with Pastor Ron Woolsey and Mike Carducci,
01:19 they are cofounders of the ministry called Coming Out,
01:23 that is really a multifaceted ministry, it's--
01:25 it's designed to speak to the public,
01:28 to educate the church
01:30 and to help those that are involved in gay issues,
01:33 to find real solutions to their issues
01:39 that will genuinely gain peace to their hearts.
01:42 And so here we are again guys, this is it,
01:45 number nine we got lot to do and you know,
01:48 as I look at the sequence of the programs that we've had,
01:51 I can honestly say that I think this is
01:54 possibly one of the most important of them all
01:57 and we need to summarize a little bit where we been.
02:01 You have told your stories of coming out of a gay lifestyle.
02:06 And what is happened to you, which is invariable to us,
02:11 you know, just to hear what you have to say
02:14 and we've also looked at the Bible.
02:16 We have said without apology that we believe in this book.
02:22 We believe what the Bible says, that we believe in God of love,
02:26 but God of love who also tells us the truth.
02:30 He has given us a revelation of His plan,
02:33 in the Garden of Eden
02:34 for a male and a female to be united in marriage.
02:39 We believe in that plan,
02:40 we see that plan all through out the Bible
02:42 and we've also seen verses that tell us
02:46 that there are deviations from His plan that well,
02:50 He may love, He does love people,
02:53 He does not approve of those deviations.
02:58 And I know it's a-- it's a tough text,
03:01 many people don't like us sharing this,
03:02 but we believe that there is a whole lot of people out there
03:05 that really need this information
03:07 as part of their healing.
03:09 Romans 1:26, 27 talk about
03:14 men a burning in their hearts with a--
03:17 with desires for other men and women go against nature,
03:22 Romans 1 says.
03:24 And burning in theirs hearts with desires for other women,
03:28 and I we've also mention that those two verses
03:32 are in a context of whole host of verses
03:35 that deal with actually 24 different sins,
03:37 and whether it's you know, this sin or that sin
03:40 or whole host of other sins
03:42 really ultimately we're all in this together.
03:44 Because whatever direction or flesh goes
03:47 we all have the similar problem and that is sin,
03:51 and we need-- we need a solution,
03:54 and that's what we're here to talk about
03:56 today about the solution,
03:58 is there really hope for real change
04:04 to those that are struggling with this issue?
04:08 Can you pray the gay away that's our--
04:13 that's our topic
04:15 and so I'm gonna turn this time over to you
04:18 'cause you got a lot to say.
04:20 Well, I think pray the gay away has become
04:23 such a cliché, but in my experience I prayed plenty
04:27 that God would you know, make me straight and that my--
04:30 my thoughts would be straight
04:31 and I didn't know how untwist this--
04:33 this rope that it gotten so knotted up for me, and so I--
04:38 I resonate with people that say the same thing
04:41 and you know, they been documentaries done about it
04:44 and basically the answer is no, you can't pray the gay away,
04:47 but I would say that it's more than that,
04:49 it's more than just praying the gay away.
04:52 There's many steps in the process
04:53 of coming out of that lifestyle more than just praying.
04:56 I had to not only pray
04:57 but I also needed to cooperate with--
05:00 with what the Lord was bringing to me,
05:01 through His word and through the--
05:04 through the experiences of other people.
05:06 So I mean, at first--
05:08 at first I would just want to affirm
05:10 that you believe and I believe that real change is possible.
05:13 I know that there are many that say, you know,
05:15 if you're born that way, that's just way you are,
05:17 and nothing is really gonna change you.
05:21 Pastor Ron, you can relate to that
05:23 because that's part of--
05:25 that's actually the title of your book.
05:26 That kind can never change, can they?
05:29 And you are proof that-- Exhibit "A."
05:33 Yeah, that statement really isn't correct.
05:35 Hey we're all exhibit "A" aren't we?
05:37 But you know, on this--
05:38 this question of praying the gay away
05:41 I really sympathize with those who have
05:44 tried to pray the gay away
05:46 and have been disappointed because that's my experience.
05:50 When I was first--
05:52 when I was young and I was married
05:54 and I was the father of two little children
05:58 and I was being just overwhelmed
06:00 with these desires and temptations,
06:04 and tendencies that I had not acted on
06:08 and I prayed relentlessly that the Lord would take that away.
06:12 I wanted to be-- I was a spiritual person,
06:15 I wanted to be a faithful husband,
06:18 I wanted to truly love my wife, I wanted to be a good father,
06:22 and I prayed relentlessly that the Lord would take this away
06:26 and He didn't.
06:28 And when I eventually fell into the gay life,
06:31 and as I've said in earlier programs,
06:34 I went angry and bitter against God,
06:37 but there is just so much I did not understand--
06:41 about this whole issue.
06:43 There is as Mike said, there is much more to--
06:46 to this issue than just praying,
06:49 in fact, we'll talk about it later.
06:51 There are many steps that can be taken.
06:54 That in praying--
06:59 I eventually became so frustrated,
07:01 I stopped praying.
07:03 And when I stopped praying that's when I fell into it.
07:07 I didn't realize that as long as I was praying,
07:10 I was resisting and I was resisting temptation
07:14 and I had not fallen into it.
07:16 But when I stopped praying,
07:18 gave up on God, became angry with God,
07:21 I had no defense whatsoever, and then I fell,
07:24 fell headlong in to it.
07:27 So the first time around ultimately, you know,
07:31 you didn't have all the information I guess.
07:33 And it didn't really work for you,
07:35 at the first time-- time around,
07:36 I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that
07:37 although you were, you were still by praying,
07:42 you were making progress but--
07:43 I was resisting.
07:44 Yeah, you were resisting, but there is still
07:46 where a whole a lot of things you didn't understand.
07:48 And then second time around things you really,
07:51 you made even more progress
07:52 and something really big did happen.
07:54 Oh, yes. Well, I think this--
07:55 This I know this is where I made the mistake
07:58 and this is where many people make the mistake.
08:00 They say, well, if God didn't want me to be this way,
08:04 He wouldn't have made me this way.
08:06 And at any time He wants, He can take it away.
08:09 But that just eliminates any participation on our part,
08:13 any exercise on our part and it really gives an excuse.
08:19 And we talked about excuses earlier and blaming
08:22 because God doesn't answer my prayer and just take it away.
08:25 Then He must want me to be this way.
08:27 I mean that's the argument you hear all the time.
08:30 But there is much more to it
08:32 then just praying and sitting back
08:34 and waiting for the Lord to do what we should be doing.
08:37 Okay, so Ron, I really identify with that statement
08:40 because God isn't gonna wrestle anything away from me.
08:43 So even the Bible says that everything permissible
08:45 but not everything is beneficial.
08:47 And so you know, by saying Lord,
08:49 if you want to change me You can, you know.
08:51 He needs my permission to work in my life
08:54 because He gives us the--
08:55 the freedom of free choice, right?
08:58 And so He is not gonna just take it away.
09:01 He has to have our cooperation in that
09:03 because He is not a God that's forcefully,
09:05 He doesn't push His way.
09:07 That was awesome, I really appreciate that comment.
09:09 And so I, you know, both of you have been there
09:12 and now you are out,
09:13 I mean you are cofounders of Coming Out,
09:17 and you have a mission and a message
09:20 to a whole lot of people
09:21 and I guess what I really want to--
09:23 what I really want to focus on that I guess,
09:25 but what I do on a focus on
09:26 and I'm sure a lot of people are probably wondering
09:29 this is what was it really if you put the details together,
09:35 make it practical, you know, what worked for you?
09:38 Because obvious to me, I mean, I know both of you,
09:41 your lives are happy,
09:43 you know, Ron, we have breakfast together
09:45 and you're a happy man.
09:47 And Mike, you know, we can hear you singing
09:50 and humming in between these programs,
09:53 you know, as you walking around the building,
09:54 and you are just, you're a happy person.
09:57 And so, you know,
09:58 a lot of people that are struggling with these issues
10:00 they are not happy,
10:01 they are conflicted, they are confused,
10:03 they are tormented, they bothered,
10:05 they looking for help
10:06 and so we are looking to you now to tell us
10:10 what worked for you and how is it possible
10:13 to have that real, genuine transformation take place?
10:19 Well, I can I assure you
10:20 that prayer was a very major part of it,
10:23 but what worked for me, I actually itemized in my book.
10:27 Can I just go to those steps and just name them?
10:30 The last chapter of my book is called
10:32 "You Too Can Be Made Whole"
10:35 and what I basically did was I listed these steps.
10:39 I felt the Lord led me through to victory,
10:43 and to sustain me in victory.
10:44 And of course I written paragraphs about each of these,
10:47 but I will just name the steps.
10:49 First of all, I came to realize
10:50 God's love for me in my fallen condition,
10:53 I realize that He love me immensely.
10:56 That gave me value, and so with that value
11:00 I been faced myself.
11:03 I just had to take honest look at myself
11:05 and what I saw was not pretty and then I acknowledged
11:11 that what I was dealing with was a sin issue,
11:14 that was the third step for me to acknowledge
11:17 that this is a sin issue then and Jesus can save me from sin.
11:23 Number four,
11:25 I went through and I listed every abomination in the Bible
11:28 to put them all together in paragraph
11:30 that gave me great hope that salvation was for me too.
11:35 Mine was not the abomination, it was one of many
11:39 and God can save us from any abomination.
11:43 Then I realized that the cause of homosexuality
11:46 which we've discussed on this program was really a relevant.
11:49 It doesn't matter what the cause was,
11:52 if I'm drowning in the sea,
11:54 what difference does it make how I got there?
11:57 Do I accept the hand of the lifeguard
11:59 or do I keep making excuses for drowning.
12:03 Number six, I had to learn to forgive.
12:06 I had many people to forgive,
12:09 but not only did I have to forgive,
12:13 I had to ask forgiveness as well
12:15 because I had heard people.
12:17 Number seven,
12:18 I acknowledge that this really is a matter of choice
12:21 and I had resisted that all my life
12:23 saying that it was not a matter of choice.
12:26 But if God gives us a way out and we don't take it
12:30 then it is a choice.
12:32 Number eight,
12:33 I studied and realized that temptation was not sin,
12:37 and I didn't have to carry around the burden
12:40 of this temptation is my identity.
12:43 Yeah, you didn't have to feel guilty
12:44 just because you were tempted.
12:46 His feeling are flowing through you,
12:48 but unless you're choosing to go with them--
12:51 There is no sin, there is no guilt,
12:54 it's just temptation.
12:55 And I think that would be--
12:56 that should be a huge wait for some people,
12:59 to just realize that-- that critical point.
13:02 Yeah, that was a very, very critical point for me
13:05 to realize that I didn't have to be identified
13:08 by the nature of the temptations
13:10 as Satan had designed for me.
13:13 Number nine, I realize I needed to walk with God.
13:17 I needed to develop a relationship with Him
13:20 and number ten, to protect my environment.
13:22 I uprooted myself and move from California to Arkansas,
13:27 to do my next 40 years in the wilderness.
13:31 To protect my environment,
13:34 to stay away from the bad influence--
13:37 somebody once said something like
13:39 one way to win the war is to avoid the battle.
13:43 That you know, we need to get away,
13:44 Jesus said that we should pray lead us not in to temptation,
13:48 so part of overcoming temptation
13:50 is getting away from temptation as much as we can.
13:54 Right, number 11, I learned to personalize scripture
13:58 and I have an article that I put together called
14:00 a Rainbow of Promises.
14:02 And I would insert my name in the promises.
14:05 So as I reading the promises
14:07 I'm reading them to me personally.
14:09 That was a very powerful tool.
14:12 And number 12, I learned to act on God's word.
14:15 Yes, I prayed, but then I acted--
14:19 I learned to act to answer my own prayer,
14:22 I would take God it is doing. At what part do you pray?
14:24 And do my part I would act up on it
14:27 and trust the Lord to do His part and give me strength.
14:30 And number 13,
14:31 which I found to be very helpful is to just be grateful
14:34 for what God has given
14:36 and not try to you live outside of what He has given me.
14:40 He has given us marriage between a man and a women,
14:44 I need to be grateful for that,
14:45 and not covet the fruit on the other side of the fence
14:49 or the fruit on the wrong tree in the garden.
14:52 And number 14, the last one, that I have my list is that--
14:57 the secret to over coming sin
14:59 is helping others to overcome sin.
15:01 And upon my conversion
15:02 I was immediately launched into ministry just like you,
15:05 just like Wayne.
15:07 Excuse me, just like Wayne,
15:09 and we overcome the accuser by the blood of their lamb
15:12 and by the word of our testimony.
15:14 By sharing what the Lord has done for us
15:17 we are constantly having positive reinforcement.
15:20 Thank you, thank you, Pastor Ron. Mike.
15:23 And so as you were reading those
15:24 and kind of explaining them,
15:26 Ron, you know, for me it was a little bit different than that,
15:29 and I think that what so wonderful is
15:31 that we serve a personal God.
15:34 And so you know, for some people it isn't necessary,
15:36 you know, how they ended up there,
15:38 and that God, you know, can bring you out of anything.
15:41 And yet for me when I gave my heart to the Lord
15:43 and I read these--
15:44 these horrible verses that said that I was in abomination
15:47 and yet I believe that God made me gay,
15:50 you know, I put it to Him I said,
15:51 I want to know why?
15:53 I want to know how this thing happened?
15:54 And because there weren't any resources
15:56 and there wasn't anyone that I felt safe
15:58 to talk to in-- in church,
16:00 even though I was going to church
16:02 and I was following Jesus Christ.
16:04 What was so tendering and compassionate
16:05 from my Savior is that
16:07 He started to put me in front of sermons
16:09 that started to give me clues and ideas
16:12 that there are hereditary tendencies,
16:14 as well as cultivated things that of course that I had
16:17 you know, engaged to myself, but it helped me to understand
16:20 that at the earliest moment that I thought I was gay,
16:23 it wasn't because I'm inherited gay tendencies
16:26 it was because of the sexual sin
16:27 that had gone on for there and four generations behind me
16:30 and then not only to understand that,
16:32 but also to start to understand the way out.
16:34 I didn't want to give up my boyfriend.
16:36 I didn't want to give up my sexual addiction.
16:38 And so it was a slow process for me,
16:40 where is Ron, for you within a year you already married,
16:44 but how good is God that He is so personal,
16:47 that He is willing to take whatever our situation.
16:49 I love this one personally, a author says.
16:51 Yes, she says that God takes into account
16:53 from cause to effect,
16:55 and the one that's most inclined to air,
16:57 the one that's most inclined to hurt and be hurt
17:00 is the special object of his focus.
17:03 And I believe that,
17:04 that is more than just praying the gay away.
17:06 I had two sisters that were praying for me for years.
17:09 God didn't rip out the-- the road from underneath me
17:12 and I wasn't laying in a gutter somewhere,
17:14 you know, as alcoholic and drug addict,
17:16 I was at the top of my game
17:18 and yet God was still able to reach me
17:20 through inner sensory prayer my sisters.
17:22 So can you pray the gay away?
17:25 May be not totally,
17:26 but it's definitely in my opinion
17:28 a vital part of the process out of the gay life.
17:31 So it's not the only thing. No, but it's vital. Yes.
17:34 But as far as the gay going away, that can't happen.
17:38 Right, but--
17:39 okay, you know, if God could have just wave that magic wand
17:41 and just hit me over head and boob now,
17:43 I'm straight, you know. So doesn't happen over night?
17:46 But what had denied me was the opportunity to go through
17:49 the process of looking at all the pain
17:51 and all of the damage that have been done to me
17:53 and what was so kind of God,
17:55 as He gave it to me slowly at a time that I could look at it,
17:59 I could process it, and I could hand it over to Him.
18:02 And as He was able to do that over a course of years,
18:04 which was always my choice to--
18:06 to choose to do or not do
18:08 but He was patience and He was long suffering
18:10 and it was messy on my part,
18:12 but as I was willing to do that He was faithful,
18:15 He stood right by me and every time I fell,
18:17 and I fell a lot, He said Mike, get back up.
18:19 I still want you, I still love you
18:22 and I believe that all of that was part of the process
18:24 of coming out of that lifestyle.
18:26 Wonderful, how important was the community
18:29 that you told me that,
18:31 the church your involvement in a good church
18:34 and a healing church, where people didn't just go,
18:38 you know, I'm just--
18:39 But you know, Steve, the shame is I experienced both.
18:43 I remember going in to one church
18:45 and you know, even the--
18:47 even one of the head elders that was on this board meeting
18:50 told me that he didn't want to run around on the woods
18:52 like a bunch of homosexuals and you know,
18:55 was making a pitch to have a men's ministry.
18:57 But when I moved to another church,
18:59 this simple man, you know, asked to wash my feet
19:02 and as he was washing my feet he just poured over me with--
19:05 with love you know, we appreciate you being here
19:07 and we're grateful that you chose to come here,
19:10 what a blessing you've been.
19:11 And when he prayed for me
19:12 every man in that room stood up,
19:15 walked over and put their hands on me.
19:16 I didn't even realize the power of healing
19:19 that was coming through those men.
19:21 They didn't know what they were doing,
19:22 they were just following the Holy Spirit urges
19:25 to affirm me, to include me
19:27 and part of that was also part of the healing
19:30 and the restoring to my masculinity.
19:32 Wow. Praise God. Yeah, so God has many--
19:36 So His people has a role, His--
19:38 His people that Christians need to reach out
19:43 and not be repulsed.
19:45 I mean, I know that you know, sin whatever it is.
19:47 It is repulsive and some people say well,
19:49 you know, I just can't-- I can't do that.
19:51 I can't love you, I can't talk to you,
19:53 I can't minister to you, I can't be your friend.
19:55 You know, because there is just a sin.
19:57 But as I thought about that,
19:58 you know, I think about to Jesus, all sin is--
20:04 you know, I just He-- He-- the Bible actually says,
20:08 in His heart He has a heart of love,
20:10 but there is one thing
20:12 that the Bible does say that He hates.
20:13 It's in Hebrews Chapter 1,
20:14 it says you have hated lawlessness, He hates sin.
20:17 He loves righteousness, He hates lawlessness.
20:19 He hate sin because He knows
20:21 how harmful sin is to His universe.
20:24 Because of His love, He hates what's evil,
20:27 but at the same time
20:29 when He look at the sin down here that He hates
20:31 He chose to come down here.
20:33 He chose to work with all of us.
20:37 So whether we have you know,
20:39 same sex attraction, temptations
20:41 or opposite sex attraction temptation
20:44 or pornographic temptation or alcohol or drugs
20:47 or tobacco or pride,
20:50 which we're all, you know, stuck in we often don't see.
20:54 God needs really deal with us in that.
20:56 Whatever the issue is,
20:57 lying gossip the whole list of Romans 20,
21:00 Romans chapter well there is 24 of them.
21:02 Whatever it is, you know,
21:04 Jesus chose to come down here in the midst of all that
21:08 and to take all those sins into His own mind
21:10 and into His own heart to pay the price,
21:12 so He can reach out to sinners like you,
21:16 you and like me and get a hold of me
21:19 and get us out because He loved us.
21:22 And the church needs to play that role of reveling that--
21:27 that grace. That grace.
21:29 Imagine if we could see that--
21:31 that transformation in our churches
21:33 and part of what we talk about is not just educating
21:37 or calling people out of homosexual sin,
21:39 but really we want to educate the church
21:42 to create a safe place
21:43 where people can come from the community inside,
21:46 but you can't give something that you haven't received.
21:48 And so if a church still--
21:50 you know, struggles with prejudice or--
21:52 or with not being able to really deal with the issues
21:55 that people struggle with inside the church,
21:57 how are they gonna be effective
21:58 to deal with the issues on the outside?
22:00 That right. You know, there is a verse that just,
22:03 I feel like I got to share this.
22:05 It came to me earlier.
22:06 It's in Psalm 104:20, I remember I was--
22:11 I'm sorry not Psalm 104, Psalm 107.
22:13 I was holding a series of meeting once in Canada
22:16 and there was a lady that was coming to the meetings
22:17 and she-- her life was all mixed up.
22:19 She had all kind of addictions and problems
22:22 and anyway she came to meetings
22:23 and she talked to me after one of the--
22:25 one of the meetings and I opened my Bible
22:27 and I show to this verse.
22:29 Psalm 107:20 that says
22:31 "He sent his word, and healed them,
22:35 and delivered them from their destructions."
22:38 Amen. Wow, and she--
22:40 She took this verse, she enlarged in her--
22:43 in her mind and she told me later that as she drove away
22:47 she kept thinking about this verse.
22:48 He sent his word, and healed them,
22:51 and delivered them from their destructions.
22:52 And she realized that she was driving,
22:53 she told me later, she said that I had--
22:55 I had all this destructions in my life that were destroying me
22:59 and she believe that God had brought her to meetings
23:02 and send His word to heal her.
23:05 And she just knew that she said
23:06 I'm gonna keep going to those meetings
23:08 and at the end her life was changed.
23:10 Because God's word has power to heal
23:12 and to deliver from whatever destruction we're dealing with.
23:16 You know, I found another verse
23:17 while we just talking James 5:16 says
23:20 "Confess your faults one to another,
23:21 and pray one for another, that you may be healed.
23:24 The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
23:28 And so not only are we talking about an individual prayer,
23:31 prayer for ourselves, but also what if we had that--
23:34 that model example in our church
23:36 where we could come and say,
23:37 hey, Steve I'm really struggling
23:38 with some thoughts in my head and can you help me?
23:41 Yes, Mike, you know, let's get the church together,
23:43 let's pray for Mike.
23:44 Because if we can create a safe environment
23:46 in our churches where people can come with their--
23:49 their dirty laundry and not in a sensational way,
23:51 but in a sincere way to really give you strength
23:55 and to hold you and boaster you up.
23:57 I believe the God's word is powerful
23:59 and prayer does have its place, right?
24:01 Sure, of course.
24:02 And promises you know, claming these promises.
24:05 I have another important factor to consider in prayer,
24:09 it is the pray of the others
24:10 and I know this is the case with all of us.
24:14 We had people praying for us
24:16 where were not praying for ourselves.
24:18 And I know my parents prayed all of those years
24:21 that the Lord would do whatever it took to get my attention
24:24 that He would give me no rest day or night.
24:27 He was-- they were
24:28 constantly giving the Lord an invitation
24:31 and permission to go
24:33 where I was not giving the Lord an invitation or permission.
24:37 And so He-- Tell the story--
24:39 tell the story about your dad when he was reading your book.
24:42 When, my dad was reading the manuscript for my book
24:45 he came across that part and he started laughing
24:47 and I was curious as to why he was laughing
24:50 reading my testimony.
24:52 And so I challenged him on that
24:53 and I said there is nothing funny in there.
24:55 And he says, well, look here he said
24:57 right here you wrote in your testimony,
24:59 in your manuscript the Lord gave me no rest day or night.
25:04 And I said yes, and what so funny about that?
25:07 He said, Ronny, your mom and I prayed for 16 years
25:10 that the Lord would give you no rest day or night.
25:13 There is our prayer and our answer in black and white.
25:17 So the effectual fervent prayer of righteous people
25:20 does avail much.
25:22 In inner seeding for before people dealing with this issue,
25:26 as well as any other issue.
25:28 Wow, that's says this. Praise God.
25:30 Now as we are getting down here--
25:32 a close here I want to look at one more verse
25:34 which to me I thought about this from my perspective,
25:38 it just seems that Matthew 1:21,
25:42 when we-- when we you know, say can we pray the gay away
25:45 or maybe prayer itself is not enough
25:47 like you said we need more,
25:48 we need to understanding, we need education,
25:50 we need to learn from the Bible,
25:51 unrealistic expectations can be very damaging,
25:55 but we still need to believe in the power of God
25:58 to do what He is promised to do.
26:03 is where the angel Gabriel spoke to Joseph about the baby
26:07 that was gonna be born through Mary
26:09 and this verse says the angel said
26:12 "She shall bring forth a Son,
26:15 and you shall call His name Jesus."
26:18 And the word Jesus means Savior and then the angel said
26:22 "For he shall save His people from their sins."
26:28 And really the issue is Jesus Christ.
26:33 His name means Savior.
26:36 He is the one who says, I can save you from your sins and--
26:41 and get you out and change your life
26:43 and make you new person.
26:44 And the issue is really can Jesus do what His name--
26:48 what His name says?
26:50 Is He who He says He is
26:53 and there are millions of people who can testify Him?
26:55 Yes, He can.
26:56 If we give our life to Him,
26:58 if we make the choice and surrender everything Jesus,
27:01 He can do it.
27:02 He can save you, He can save me,
27:04 He can bring us into the heaven--
27:06 the heaven of rest
27:08 where we can experience salvation, deliverance,
27:11 freedom, peace and love forever.
27:14 And that is what we are offering to you
27:16 through this book in Coming Out.
27:21 If you would like to order
27:22 the 13 part Coming Out series for $34.95 plus shipping,
27:26 call 1-800-782-4253
27:29 or write to White Horse Media, PO Box 1139,
27:32 Newport, Washington, 99156.
27:35 Pastor Woolsey, Dwayne Blakely and Mike Carducci
27:38 are each available to conduct a seminar in your area.
27:41 To schedule a speaking engagement,
27:42 contact Coming Out Ministries by calling 360-936-8514
27:48 or visit comingoutministries.org.