Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Mike Carducci, Wayne Blakely
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000011A
00:09 Is it possible to be gay and Christian?
00:12 The answer may surprise you in this edition of Coming Out.
01:04 Welcome to part 11 of Coming Out,
01:06 a special series dealing with gay,
01:08 homosexual, lesbian and biblical issues.
01:12 The title of our program
01:14 and the question that we're asking is,
01:16 "Is it possible to be gay
01:18 and Christian at the same time?"
01:21 I'm here with Mike Carducci
01:23 and Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministries.
01:25 We have-- they have and I do and the Bible does.
01:29 We have a lot to say about this but first of all,
01:32 let me just pose the question to you.
01:34 Aren't there a lot of people today
01:36 that would answer that question
01:38 with the resounding Y-E-S, yes?
01:42 Certainly, you know there is a-- there's a whole--
01:45 there are many denominations one out there
01:47 today is the Metropolitan Community Church
01:50 which has a-- their main congregation
01:53 is made up of gay Christians.
01:55 I went there for years.
01:56 You went there for years, where is that, what city?
01:58 Well, Orlando. Orlando, Florida.
02:00 It has other branches and satellite churches.
02:03 Yeah, all across the world, right.
02:05 Okay, so they would answer that question.
02:06 How would they answer that question
02:07 if you walked into that church?
02:09 Uh, you know, for me it was the only way
02:12 that I could bring my belief in God together
02:16 with my sexual identity and you know it was amazing
02:19 because I came out when Aids came out.
02:21 And here I'd be sitting in the congregation
02:23 and it was basically the same people
02:25 that I was in the bar with the night before.
02:27 And you can see them, you know, struggling,
02:29 they had Kaposi sarcoma on their face
02:31 and you know they had very life threatening diseases.
02:34 You know, you would see the drag queens there,
02:36 you know, dressing their pantsuits and their high heels,
02:39 but you know what was interesting is
02:41 I was impressed by their sincerity,
02:44 they're like me that there were other people
02:45 that wanted to be right with God
02:48 and we're seeking that sincerely.
02:50 Also in many denominations stay Lutheran, Presbyterian,
02:55 I think Methodist too and more and more being added
02:59 that are changing their doctrine.
03:00 And so they also have a component of the church
03:04 would refer to themselves as gay Christians.
03:06 Yeah, there are ordained gay pastors.
03:10 There are-- so you have, you know,
03:11 we have Christianity on the one side,
03:13 we have gay community on the other side.
03:15 And there is a sort of a hotchpotch
03:18 in the middle of churches
03:20 like the one that you went to where
03:22 there are openly practicing gay pastors and people.
03:27 We have "Christian gay"?
03:33 Community but it's definitely real,
03:34 I mean it's out there
03:36 I recently read this book the Gay Gospel,
03:39 How Pro-Gay Advocates Misread the Bible
03:42 by Joe Dallas, by Joe Dallas.
03:44 This book is a fascinating book
03:46 and Joe went to one of these churches for quite a while.
03:50 And he has a number of quotes here
03:54 and he used to believe this.
03:56 Here's a quote from gay author Mel White
03:59 where he says "I have learned to accept
04:01 and even celebrate my sexual orientation
04:04 as another one of God's good gifts."
04:07 Here's another one from Pastor Troy Perry who is--
04:10 that's the church that we've been talking
04:12 about the Metropolitan Community Church.
04:14 He said, "How could we go on being ashamed
04:15 of something that God created?
04:17 Yes, God created homosexuals and homosexuality."
04:21 And then gay priest Malcolm Boyd said,
04:23 "I thank, I offer thanks to God for the gift of being gay."
04:28 So this certainly is the position of many people
04:32 of an increasing amount of people even within our own,
04:34 our own denominations, our own church
04:36 there is a segment that believes this
04:40 and they would answer that question.
04:42 "Is it possible to be gay and Christian?"
04:45 Definitely they would say yes.
04:47 Now before we go farther and try to offer
04:50 some biblical clarity on this topic.
04:54 Mike, I want to really focus on your experience
04:57 and you guess my question is,
04:59 can God work in such a situation,
05:05 you know was he working in your life at that time.
05:08 Just tell us a little more about that
05:09 I think it's brighter.
05:11 Yeah. It's just revealing.
05:13 It's amazing because when I got baptize
05:17 I got it that the Lord love me for who I was
05:20 and all I knew was that I was a gay person.
05:23 I tried to change as a young person,
05:24 I left church culture because I couldn't blend,
05:27 I couldn't get answers from my-- my sexual attractions
05:31 and my religion and so I left that totally.
05:33 Well, coming back in at 40 years old,
05:35 I got it that Jesus love me for who I was
05:37 and I thought that included my gay identity.
05:40 And so I got baptized with a boyfriend
05:42 and a sexual addiction.
05:43 So you were still--
05:44 you were still living with your boyfriend?
05:46 Or you're living with him or just had a boyfriend?
05:47 We weren't living together but we were--
05:48 Okay, but you had a boyfriend and so you were baptized.
05:51 You had sincerely given your heart to Christ.
05:53 Right, the night before I got baptized.
05:54 As best you could.
05:55 Yeah, my sister said what are you gonna about your boyfriend?
05:57 And adamantly I just said, I'm gay, I was born this way,
06:00 I tried to change.
06:01 I asked God to change me that never happened?
06:04 I said all I know is that Jesus loves me for who I am
06:06 and that's why I'm getting baptized.
06:08 And my sister she stopped the pastor didn't know,
06:11 nobody in the church knew I was fearful to expose
06:14 what I was-- what I was coming into the church for fear
06:17 I'd be rejected of kicked out.
06:19 But I was only following Jesus Christ
06:21 and my faith was like a piece of dental floss.
06:24 The God I believe was able to work with that
06:26 and as I didn't come up out of the water straight
06:28 and I thought things might change
06:30 but this was going to be a process of beginning
06:33 that relationship from the moment
06:34 I made the public expression to be baptized.
06:37 Yeah, today you are one of the cofounders of Coming Out.
06:41 And so-- again tell us a little bit more,
06:45 you-- you were, you accepted Jesus Christ.
06:48 And I can't, my conscience will let me say to myself
06:54 that when you accepted Jesus Christ
06:57 before you are baptized.
06:58 You know and you had a very simple faith,
07:00 just like you know the song that says
07:02 that Jesus loves me this I know,
07:03 for the Bible tells me so.
07:04 Yeah. You know.
07:05 Well, then Bible started to tell me differently.
07:07 Okay but first-- I guess my question,
07:10 you know, I want to zero in on this first.
07:11 'Cause I think it's important. Yes, yes.
07:13 That you had accepted Christ
07:15 and you know is it correct to say
07:19 that you were a Christian when you accepted Jesus Christ?
07:22 Without a doubt.
07:23 I know that my conversion experience
07:25 happen that night that I gave my life to the Lord.
07:27 You know Isaiah 58:8 or 55:8 says
07:30 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
07:32 neither are your ways my ways."
07:34 And that to me, it helps me to understand
07:37 that God knew that I needed to make
07:39 that public expression of my commitment to him.
07:42 And he wasn't worried about all of the other things,
07:44 the sexual addiction and the boyfriend
07:46 that wasn't the issue.
07:47 The issue was understanding in how to relate to a God
07:50 that called Himself father and also a God
07:53 who called Himself my savior and my friend and my brother.
07:57 I didn't know how to relate to men
07:58 and all of that was broken.
08:00 But all Jesus needed for me to do
08:01 was to make my stand for him
08:03 and he was going to do the rest.
08:05 This was the work that I couldn't do
08:06 but as I cooperated with that little bit of faith
08:09 that I had, he was able to move me
08:12 and to grow me and while it cost him a lot,
08:14 Steve, and it was messy.
08:16 What was incredible was that I realized
08:18 according to 1 John 1:9, that He is faithful.
08:22 He was the one that was gonna cleanse me
08:23 from all unrighteousness.
08:24 My job was merely to confess my sin.
08:27 So you were, you know, in my mind
08:29 I think of you has as a baby Christian at that time.
08:31 You were just a new born and you were just,
08:33 you know, baby's come out and they--
08:35 they don't know a lot and they're just little babies
08:38 and you were, you know you had given your heart to Jesus
08:41 and He was at work in your life
08:44 but as Pastor Ron said it during a previous program
08:47 which I think, we all I know, we all agree with,
08:50 God takes us where we are
08:51 but he doesn't leave us where we are.
08:54 You know, you said,
08:55 you mentioned cooperation with God
08:57 and I'm thinking about cooperation
08:59 with the Holy Spirit and you know
09:02 I was hanging out with my best friend
09:04 who was practicing gay man like myself at the time
09:08 and one day before we were going garage sailing
09:10 he said to me, hey we have to have church first
09:13 and I'm like, I hadn't been to church in years.
09:15 And I was like what are you talking about?
09:16 People like us don't usually get considered as someone
09:19 who would still believe in God
09:21 or go to church or anything so he turns on the TV
09:24 and there is Joyce Meyer and she is preaching
09:26 and she said I got this amazing message
09:29 and my heart is just thrilled
09:30 and connected all of the sudden,
09:32 and I said to my friend Dave afterwards
09:33 and I said, how is that you can suffer
09:37 from the alienation from your parents
09:41 and from your brothers and sisters and from the church
09:44 and still have a connection with God.
09:46 And he said, Wayne, you can't let anything come
09:49 between you and your relationship with Jesus Christ.
09:52 And from that day forward, I began to start praying
09:55 and communing with Jesus Christ.
09:57 And God takes us where we are,
09:59 where else can He find us?
10:01 But where we are?
10:02 So, Mike, I want to go back to you as after your baptism.
10:06 Where they didn't know about your secret other identity
10:10 or your secret identity.
10:12 It was only a secret to them, everybody else knew.
10:14 Yeah, okay.
10:15 But anyway afterwards then what did
10:17 God show you as your--
10:19 as your journey continued on as you-- as you grew up.
10:24 In your Christian life,
10:26 eventually to bring you to where you are today?
10:29 In this, you know, you are cofounder of Coming Out.
10:34 What happened is when I started to read the text
10:36 about how the Bible calls homosexuality and abomination.
10:40 I was deeply offended by that.
10:42 How could you say that you love me
10:44 and then call me in abomination.
10:45 You know, haven't I given you my life,
10:47 haven't I given you my heart
10:48 but this is something that I can't change.
10:51 And what I said is-- I said
10:52 if you want me out of that relationship,
10:53 you're gonna have to do it yourself
10:55 because I'm digging at my heals,
10:56 I'm gonna prove to you
10:57 that we can be this mighty team for you.
10:59 And so again God took me my word and He said,
11:02 great you just gave me permission to work
11:04 and within a few weeks my boyfriend broke up with me.
11:06 And I was at home and I remember this
11:08 desperation coming over me is like,
11:10 what you mean to tell me that I'll never know
11:12 what it's like to love someone again.
11:14 That I'll never know what it's like to be held
11:15 or to be comforted or to love
11:18 and I cried out for weeks by myself
11:21 because I couldn't share with my sister.
11:22 She would have been overjoyed and I was in misery.
11:25 And I couldn't share with my straight friends
11:27 because they would have told me I was a fool
11:28 and go back to my boyfriend.
11:30 It was just me and Jesus Christ alone
11:32 and He held me while I sobbed.
11:35 And then what happened is
11:36 He started to put other men in my life
11:38 that were struggling with homosexuality
11:40 and they were along the same path with me.
11:42 Some of them in different areas,
11:44 some thought that if they had a monogamous relationship.
11:47 Others were still addicted to pornography as I was
11:50 and sexually acting out.
11:52 And what happened is like God created this community
11:54 and He started to bring in resources of testimonies
11:57 that we saw of men and women
11:59 that had come out of their gay lifestyle.
12:00 And one testimony particular of this man
12:03 that was so feminine, I was so offended
12:05 when I started to watch his testimony.
12:07 But as he shared his story
12:08 I saw the Holy Spirit working through him
12:10 and I finally at the end of the-- the testimony
12:13 tears are coming down my face and I realize
12:15 that if God could help that a feminine man
12:18 that He certainly could work with me.
12:20 And you know what, that started to change my understanding.
12:22 He was slowly giving me food
12:25 that I could understand and digest,
12:27 but He couldn't give it to me all at once,
12:29 it would have been overwhelming.
12:30 But what He did is He was willing to make
12:32 that commitment to me that this was gonna take a while
12:34 and 2 Peter 3:9 says
12:36 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise,
12:38 as some understand slowness.
12:40 Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish,
12:44 but that everyone should come to repentance."
12:46 And so I got baptized and ended up realizing
12:49 that I had to make this-- this decision
12:51 was I going to hang on to Jesus Christ
12:53 which was becoming everything for me
12:55 or was I gonna hang on to my identity
12:57 and I came to a crossroads
12:59 because every time I would act out,
13:00 I would feel the separation from the loving God
13:03 who nurtured me and satisfied me
13:05 in a legitimate way.
13:06 And so I would come running back to God
13:08 and say no Lord, I want you but this calls me right.
13:12 So eventually I had to make this decision,
13:15 I couldn't live without Jesus Christ
13:16 and that was when I had to close the door
13:19 on everything that I understood,
13:20 everything that I felt, everything that I thought
13:23 that I was even entitled too and as I followed Jesus Christ
13:26 and gave Him more and more of myself.
13:29 He was able to address not only the reasons
13:31 why this had happened,
13:33 but also the ways out of the sexual addiction
13:35 and bondage that I hooked in even in my ignorance.
13:40 He's a good guy. So He worked with you.
13:43 Where you were, step by step,
13:46 and He progressively changed you.
13:49 You know, as I think about the word,
13:51 I mean I know a lot of people would answer this question.
13:54 Is it possible to be gay and Christian?
13:56 Many people would say yes.
13:58 And my thought is that--
13:59 it certainly is possible as you are exhibit A
14:02 if they had to for a person to be gay
14:05 and yet to respond to the love of Jesus Christ,
14:09 and to accept Him into your heart
14:12 to become a Christian and to begin the journey.
14:16 And as you begin the journey, the Lord continues His work.
14:20 There is a Bible verse it says,
14:21 "He who began a good work, will finish it."
14:23 That's right.
14:24 And He doesn't leave us where we are,
14:26 He takes us step by step.
14:27 And eventually He Brought clarity to your mind
14:30 that you could not continue to be a genuine real Christian
14:36 and still be practicing a gay lifestyle,
14:40 isn't that correct?
14:41 Yeah, He brought that clarity to you
14:44 and that you know and I think about
14:45 the word Christian itself to be a Christian
14:49 is to be a follower of Jesus Christ.
14:50 That's right. And Jesus Christ had no sin.
14:53 Jesus Christ gave us the Bible. He's the center of the Bible.
14:57 The Bible certainly tells us in Genesis what's God plan is,
15:01 since we've already covered for a man and a women.
15:04 It tells us about the fall, it talks about sin,
15:06 it talks about the deceitfulness of the devil
15:09 and of our own hearts and of the flesh
15:10 and the things that we fall into.
15:13 And the Lord's goal as it says in Daniel 12:10
15:19 "is to purify a people
15:22 and to prepare them for his coming."
15:24 And so I guess I would say that a baby Christian,
15:28 it's possible for them to be a Christian
15:31 and to be have taking the first steps
15:33 and have not really got it yet
15:37 about what the Bible says about this.
15:39 But I think that, you know, in your case
15:41 and I think you're a perfect example
15:43 that when a person continues to follow the Lord
15:45 and is honest with themselves
15:47 their consciences in with the Bible
15:49 that a mature Christian or a growing Christian
15:54 will eventually have to realize that in order to continue
15:59 to be a genuine follower of Jesus Christ
16:04 that lifestyle has to go, it has to go.
16:08 Wayne, you have any comments on that?
16:10 Isn't that resonate with what your--
16:13 your burden is, I know that.
16:14 Yeah, I fought well, you know five years
16:16 after my beginning to pray to God,
16:19 you know God confronted me or I confronted God
16:22 and I said, you know, I don't know--
16:26 or God said to me, you can't just keep blaming me
16:28 for something when you don't sincerely know Me.
16:30 And the only way to know Me is to get into My word
16:32 and to communicate with Me and I began to find
16:36 that God was opening up the doors for me
16:38 to learn more about Him and if I-- why,
16:40 what I had believed for so long
16:43 was the only way that I could believe
16:44 and He begin to reveal Himself to me.
16:47 And pour me out of what I thought was something
16:51 that was acceptable to Him.
16:52 So you realize that what you thought
16:54 was acceptable really isn't acceptable.
16:56 Correct, yeah. Not to Him.
16:57 You know, Steve, I don't want to minimize in any way
16:59 that it was a matter of like oh, well, this has to go.
17:02 It wasn't that cavalier for either of us.
17:05 It came with great deliberation.
17:07 And again Jesus never yanked it out of our hands
17:11 or wrestled with us about it.
17:13 It was always our choice to do. Sure.
17:15 But what was so incredible, Wayne, right?
17:16 Is that when we let that go,
17:18 when we gave Him the freedom the work
17:20 what He gave us instead was something beyond anything
17:23 that I never could have imagined the peace, right?
17:26 Incredible. Yes.
17:27 Peace. Yes, it satisfies.
17:29 A clean conscience, an empty heart.
17:31 I will keep them in perfect peace.
17:33 Whose mind is state on me because He's trusting me.
17:36 And I had to learn how to trust God all over again.
17:39 I've been used by men all my life.
17:40 I used men and so I couldn't relate to a God
17:43 who called himself love but as he showed me
17:46 that he was there faithfully for me
17:47 and every time I fell that He said get back up,
17:49 Michael, I still want you.
17:51 Then I was able to start learning
17:53 how to trust Him incrementally at first
17:55 and as that grew also, then I could realize
17:57 that I could trust Him with everything.
17:59 Yeah, amazing, I want--
18:01 Then God gave me a new identity.
18:02 Now that's right. In Jesus Christ.
18:04 Well, yeah, He did you know I talk about Paul--
18:09 you know people said that He want you a gay Christian
18:11 and I'm going, you know, I'm really not,
18:12 I had to really research that
18:14 because I'm not identified by my temptation.
18:18 And I used the example about Paul,
18:19 you know, when Paul was on the road to Damascus
18:22 and God intervened with him.
18:24 He said, Paul would you stop killing Christians
18:26 and become one.
18:27 And he did and he praised God
18:30 but he didn't continue to identify
18:31 as a Christian killing Christian.
18:33 Sure, yeah, that's right.
18:34 And so God showed me 2 Corinthians 5:17
18:39 and said that if you repent "therefore he says
18:44 you know if anyone is in Christ,
18:46 he is a new creation; old things have passed away,
18:49 behold, all things have become new."
18:51 And so I have a new life, a new beginning with Jesus.
18:55 Revelation Chapter 14 to me
18:58 really speaks to this whole issue.
18:59 Revelation 14 is a prophecy of three angels
19:02 that give messages to the world before the return of Christ.
19:05 And in verse 7 there's a call
19:08 to worship Him that made heaven,
19:10 and earth and the sea, and the fountains of waters
19:13 which is a call to worship the creator.
19:15 And that points us back to the garden.
19:16 In fact it points back to Genesis
19:19 and to God's plan for men and women in the garden,
19:22 His original plan.
19:24 And then the second angel in verse 8 talks about Babylon,
19:27 it says that Babylon the great has fallen,
19:30 has fallen and Babylon,
19:32 the word Babylon means confusion
19:34 and it says that she's made all the nations
19:36 drink the wine of her fornication
19:38 and it is a religious conglomeration that's confused
19:42 and it's joining the world with apparently
19:46 trying to join the world with Christianity
19:48 is called fornication.
19:50 And it's then giving the world
19:51 its wine, its confusing doctrines.
19:54 And in Chapter 18:4, God says to His people,
19:57 come out, come out of that.
19:59 Don't participate in that mixture,
20:02 that blend of the world and the church
20:05 or religion or true Christianity.
20:07 You just can't blend the world
20:10 and the Lord, it just doesn't happen.
20:12 And then in verse 12 the third angel
20:14 makes an appeal to a group of people to become saints.
20:19 It says here are they that keep the Commandments of God
20:22 and the faith of Jesus.
20:23 And when you look at the Ten Commandments,
20:25 honor your father and mother,
20:26 no adultery, children you know respect your parents
20:30 and it's very clear that the Ten Commandments
20:33 support marriage
20:35 they support men being men, women
20:36 being women not committing adultery.
20:39 Not having any form of sexual deviation
20:42 but becoming a pure people
20:43 who follow the commandments of God
20:45 and it seems to me that God's call in these last days
20:47 doesn't seem to me I know that based on Revelation
20:50 God's call to his people is to come out of this confusing
20:55 blending trying to blend, you know,
20:58 the things of the world with the things of the Lord.
21:01 And to get real clarity on this that from God's perspective,
21:06 you cannot answer to the question.
21:09 I believe from the Bible and from God's perspective,
21:12 you cannot continue to be a practicing
21:18 gay person living a life that is contrary to scripture
21:23 and yet still be a genuine follower of Jesus Christ.
21:29 You know, it's just, you know. When I came back--
21:31 Mixed in rolling water. Right.
21:33 When I came back to the Lord,
21:34 I followed Jesus Christ as a young person
21:36 and at 20 years old I still knew
21:38 that He was a savior of the world,
21:40 but I just figured that ain't include homosexuals.
21:43 And then when I came back at 40 during the 20 years
21:45 that I was in that lifestyle and gone,
21:47 even in the church culture that I went to,
21:50 Jesus Christ was nothing more to me than just a good person.
21:53 I got it that He was kind and loving and fair
21:55 but He didn't seem as a savior with the ability
21:58 and the power to overcome every sin.
22:00 And I believe it that is some of what
22:04 we're saying that if we go against God's word
22:07 because He made a plan to me that--
22:09 that it was not in his plan for me
22:11 but if we go against that and say that,
22:13 that God will ignore that or overlook at them.
22:15 Basically that's the biggest insult is that we're saying it,
22:18 Jesus Christ is not powerful enough to save us from our sin
22:22 and so then I can understand why we would just say,
22:24 well, He's got to accept me as I am
22:26 because He can't change me.
22:28 And, you know, and we can also deceive ourselves
22:31 to becoming the people that Jesus describes in Mathews 7
22:35 who say to him Lord, Lord but who do not do
22:39 what he says, he says many will come to me on that day
22:42 and they'll say, Lord, Lord
22:43 you know didn't we this and this--
22:45 Or how about Isaiah 4, where it says,
22:48 "We'll take your name but we'll eat our own bread
22:50 and we'll wear our own apparel."
22:51 Meaning our own righteousness not yours,
22:53 and I believe it that was a real struggle for us.
22:56 Wayne, you have this saying that you say a lot about,
23:01 you know, do we need a savior?
23:03 You know when people come in
23:04 and they want to baptize their sin
23:06 or go against God's word.
23:09 Yeah, why do you need a redeemer?
23:11 You know if you are going to justify your sin,
23:14 then why do you need a redeemer for.
23:16 Mike, if I would have been your pastor,
23:18 when you came into the church at that time
23:21 I would have hoped
23:22 you know looking back kind of the ideal situation
23:26 if I would have been your pastor,
23:27 I would have hoped that you would have sensed
23:28 enough love in me and safety in me
23:31 that you could tell me
23:32 what was going on your life and that if I knew that
23:36 you know I would pray with you, I put my arm around you.
23:39 But I would gently postpone your baptism,
23:42 I would--I would post--
23:43 That would have been unusual, Steve,
23:44 because I think that, that's what a lot of people
23:47 that struggle with homosexuality are fearful of
23:50 because they have been rejected.
23:52 One night I was in a gay bar
23:53 and five of us were talking about
23:55 how we've been kicked out of church,
23:57 how we've been treated by the church,
23:58 our parents and so that's--
24:02 And I would hope that I would be the pastor
24:04 that you wouldn't feel that way for me,
24:06 that you wouldn't feel rejected
24:07 but that you would still understand that,
24:09 you know, in Acts 2 Peter verse 38 says
24:12 "Repent and be baptized" that there are things
24:15 that we do need to give up and it doesn't mean
24:17 God doesn't love me, doesn't mean I don't love you,
24:18 doesn't mean the churches love you,
24:19 doesn't mean we don't want you here.
24:20 We want you to keep coming, you know,
24:22 God's working in your life
24:23 but still in order to be baptized,
24:26 you really do need some more preparation--
24:28 Well, Steve, because you went there--
24:29 And that would be my position.
24:30 Because you went there, Steve, God had to go with plan B.
24:33 And like he said, He takes us where we are, they didn't know.
24:36 They didn't know, they didn't know
24:38 but God knew and He still worked with you.
24:41 Praise God, He still worked with you.
24:42 He still loved you, we serve at big God,
24:45 a wonderful God.
24:46 You know, we're not without warning.
24:48 You know, Paul has given us a number of warnings that come
24:52 and one is about a new gospel, a different gospel.
24:55 And that's in Galatians 3:1 that says,
24:58 "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you,
25:02 that you should not obey the truth,
25:04 before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrait,
25:08 among you as crucified."
25:10 Yeah, that's right.
25:11 It's a bewitching based on the Bible
25:13 to believe that you can, to believe you can be
25:16 an openly practicing homosexual or lesbian
25:21 and still be a follower of Jesus Christ
25:23 at the same time to believe that really is a delusion.
25:26 Right it says, "Whomever is delivering the message
25:29 that is different than the original gospel
25:32 may he be cursed."
25:33 That's right.
25:35 But again thank up, thank the Lord,
25:36 He works with us in our delusions to get us out.
25:38 That's right. Thank you.
25:39 Praise the Lord. Hallelujah.
25:41 Let me-- we have just a little bit of time left,
25:43 I want to go to one more text here.
25:46 The next chapter from the new creature text
25:48 that you used is in 2 Corinthians 6:14
25:56 Paul says, "What fellowship has righteousness
25:58 with unrighteousness?
26:00 What communion has light with darkness?
26:03 What concord has Christ with Belial or Satan?
26:07 What agreement has the temple of God with idols?
26:10 For you are the temple of the living God,
26:12 as God has said, I will dwell in them,
26:14 and I will walk in them, and I will be their God,
26:16 and they will be my people."
26:18 And then verse 17 says,
26:19 "Wherefore come out from among them,"
26:21 like it says in Revelation come out of Babylon,
26:23 as your ministry is all about, come out.
26:26 You come out of this things. Into marvelous light.
26:29 That's right, come out from among them
26:30 and be separate says the Lord
26:32 and I will receive you and I will be a father to you--
26:37 And that's what I was missing.
26:38 And that's what you needed. That's right.
26:40 "And you will be my sons and my daughters,"
26:42 says the Lord almighty.
26:44 Wow. This is God's plan.
26:46 The Bible's very clear that God loves us.
26:48 He takes us where we are but He doesn't leave us there.
26:50 He purifies us, He leads us along step by step
26:53 to be a mature and genuine
26:55 and true followers of Jesus Christ,
26:58 whose mission is to save people from their sins.
27:04 May God help us to hear his voice
27:07 to be honest with our consciences,
27:09 accept the message of the word of God
27:12 and to come out from every form of sin
27:14 as we get ready for the soon return of Jesus Christ.
27:21 If you would like to order the 13 part Coming Out series
27:24 for $34.95 plus shipping, call 1-800-782-4253.
27:29 Or write to White Horse Media, PO Box 1139,
27:32 Newport, Washington, 99156.
27:35 Pastor Ron Woolsey, Dwayne Blakely
27:37 and Mike Carducci are each available
27:38 to conduct a seminar in your area.
27:41 To schedule a speaking engagement,
27:42 contact Coming Out Ministries by calling 360-936-8514,
27:48 or visit comingoutministries.org.