Participants: Pr. John Carter
Series Code: CR
Program Code: CR001207
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00:08 From Arcadia, California, the Carter report presents
00:11 "The Living Word" around the world. 00:18 Hello friend, my name is John Carter. 00:21 Welcome to the Carter Report. 00:23 We have a great program today 00:26 with my friend Dr. Randy Younker, 00:29 the Director of the Institute of Archeology 00:33 at Andrews University. 00:35 There have been new discoveries made 00:37 and we're going to ask and answer the question. 00:42 Can a thinking scientist really believe the Bible? 00:46 Stay with us. 00:50 Jesus said "Go into all the world 00:52 and make disciples of all nations, 00:54 baptizing them in the name of the Father, 00:57 Son and Holy Spirit." 00:58 The Carter Report team has therefore accepted 01:01 the challenge of worldwide evangelism. 01:04 Millions, in Russia, Ukraine, the Philippines, Africa, 01:08 India, Australia, the United States 01:11 and the isles of the sea have heard the good news of Christ. 01:15 As John Carter has proclaimed God's Living Word, 01:18 you're invited to be a part of the Carter Team, 01:22 by praying and by giving and when God calls by going. 01:26 Write a note now to Pastor John Carter, PO Box 1900, 01:31 Thousand Oaks, California, 91358. 01:35 Or to PO Box 861, Terrigal, NSW 2260, Australia. 01:43 Jesus said, "With God all things are possible." 01:51 Doctor Younker, we're delighted to welcome you here 01:54 to beautiful Southern California. 01:56 And Pastor Carter, it's great to be back here. 01:58 I'm enjoying the weather a lot. 01:59 Yeah, you told me that was one of the reasons 02:01 you came to get out of Michigan. 02:02 Absolutely, any invitation 02:03 at this time of the year will be welcomed. 02:05 How is Michigan at this time of the year normally? 02:08 Actually, we usually have a lot of snow 02:10 but this year we're having a mild winter 02:11 and so we're enjoying that. 02:12 I'm not having to shovel so much. 02:14 But today, in the middle of winter 02:16 in Southern California it's around 80 degrees. 02:19 80, well this is little unusual. Yes. 02:23 We often have snow on the mountains back here, 02:25 you know, behind our church. 02:26 Yeah, so I'm concerned about water for the future I bet. 02:28 Yeah, that's a little bit of a problem. 02:31 Minimalists, who are minimalists? 02:34 Oh, within biblical studies 02:36 minimalist are a group of scholars. 02:38 It's a movement that's been growing over 02:39 the last couple of decades just about now. 02:42 They believe that very little, 02:44 a minimal amount of the Bible story, 02:47 particularly the Old Testament 02:48 is historically reliable or historically accurate. 02:51 So they don't really take this book 02:53 as the inherent Word of God, do they? 02:57 Oh, absolutely not. No. 02:58 For them most of the Bible is sort of a pious fraud 03:01 that coined in earlier 19th century. 03:02 Critic says, is a pious fraud 03:03 and most of it was not written until 03:05 well, after the Persian period, 03:07 maybe even at the Greek period. 03:08 So the Bible is composed very, very late 03:10 according to the minimalist. 03:11 And it's full of mistakes. Full of mistakes. 03:13 A lot of it is just contrived history. 03:15 And there is no contemporary witness to the people 03:18 or the events of the Bible describes 03:20 according to the minimalist. 03:21 So the Bible really isn't 03:22 an accurate account of ancient history. 03:25 Oh, where did you do your doctorate? 03:27 I did my work at the University of Arizona. 03:30 Who is the professor? 03:31 Our Professor William Dever, 03:32 he is well known in Syro-Palestinian archaeology. 03:34 Yes, indeed. 03:35 Now as a qualified archeologist 03:40 what is your considered opinion of the scriptures? 03:43 What would you say to our young person 03:46 who is being bombarded by atheism and gnosticism? 03:50 What would you say? 03:51 Can a thinking person believe the Bible? 03:55 Well, I think they can. 03:56 You know the interesting thing among archeologists, 03:59 minimalism doesn't have that much of an impact. 04:01 The people who are actually out there 04:03 working with the artifacts 04:05 that are they're excavating out of the ground, 04:06 who are studying the ancient manuscripts, 04:08 they tend to have a higher degree of confidence 04:10 in the basic historicity of the Bible. 04:12 So I'm of course a professing Christian, 04:15 I have a great confidence in the Bible 04:16 not just as a historical source but as the Word of God. 04:19 But even my colleagues 04:21 who don't believe in the Bible as a Word of God, 04:23 recognize that much of the historical events 04:25 that people that are talked about-- 04:27 they really were people who existed in the history 04:29 and that the events that are discussed, 04:31 the conquest of Jerusalem for example. 04:33 These are events that really happened. 04:34 And so among archeologists 04:36 it's actually a fairly high degree of confidence 04:39 in the basic historical storyline. 04:41 Tell me about the discovery of the camels that you made. 04:45 Well, I can remember when I was in graduate school-- 04:48 my master's degree here in California actually. 04:50 One of my professors said, one of the reasons 04:52 that we know that the Bible is not historically accurate, 04:55 it's full of anachronisms, things that just don't fit there 04:58 the time period the Bible discusses 05:00 and this Exhibit A, I remember 05:02 when we were in the class was the Bible says 05:04 in the time of the patriarchs there were camels. 05:06 And we know that camels were not domesticated until you know, 05:09 centuries after the time of Abraham or the patriarchs, 05:12 maybe in the time of the David or even later. 05:14 And my discovery was when I was in the area north of Mount Sinai 05:18 a number of years ago with some colleagues. 05:20 We were actually looking for some ancient inscriptions 05:23 that are called Proto-Sinaitic inscriptions. 05:25 So you're down in the Sinai. So we're in Sinai. 05:27 We're at the traditional St. Catherine's-- 05:29 the traditional Mount of Sinai. 05:30 This is the great part of the world. 05:32 Well, it is a wonderful part of the world. 05:33 You like it there. Ah, when I have lots of water. 05:36 Yes, it's a hot warm place but it's beautiful. 05:39 But the Bible land is getting you blot down. 05:41 Oh, of course, yeah, 05:42 there is sort of we described it has a romantic feeling. 05:45 not the sense of romance but to say. 05:47 But it's just this feeling of emotion 05:49 the grandeur of the Mount of Sinai are very impressive. 05:51 So we're in that very region, right 05:53 where the mountains are the biggest 05:54 where many people believe the tradition Mount Sinai 05:57 reflects the story of the Moses and Israelites. 06:00 And as we're driving looking for his inscriptions, 06:02 we had actually parked our jeeps 06:03 and we climbed up to this pass in these granite mountains 06:08 and we found the inscriptions we were looking for-- 06:10 real examples of alphabetic writings. 06:12 That itself was interesting because many people say, 06:15 "Moses could not have written the Bible 06:17 because the alphabet hadn't been invented yet 06:19 In the time of Moses 06:20 and so this is a little piece of light on that issue 06:23 but while we were looking at these really alphabetic scripts. 06:25 Before yougo on, what are these scripts like? 06:27 What are they look like? 06:28 Well, they kind of for example the equivalent of the letter 'A' 06:32 or alpha that looks like an ox's head, 06:36 kind of like a triangle with a couple of horns sticking out. 06:39 And if you look at the evolution of that letter 06:42 or through literally centuries, 06:43 it turns into our modern letter 'A'. 06:45 And the Hebrews adapted it also, 06:47 it became the first letter of their alphabet. 06:50 So we were looking for the-- 06:51 they kind of look like the animals. 06:52 The 'B' looks like a house, it's just a square box. 06:54 And that would become the 'B' for a beth, 06:57 that's the Hebrew word for house. 06:58 So we found these early inscriptions 07:01 and I was showing them to my students 07:03 but just a few meters away 07:04 this had not been reported in scholarly literature, 07:07 I found a petroglyph. 07:09 A petroglyph is where an ancient person 07:11 took some sharp object and they carved something 07:13 on to the rock on to the stone Petra. 07:16 And they remove kind of the old patina, 07:19 the old dark layer of the rock 07:21 and that leaves a lighter color underneath. 07:24 Well, as we were looking at these petroglyphs, 07:27 these old carvings of often of animals or different things, 07:31 I saw a picture of a man leading a camel. Goodness. 07:34 And that was quite exciting. Yes 07:36 Because according to the context. 07:38 He shouldn't have been there. 07:39 He shouldn't have been there 07:40 because this is a domesticated camel code 07:42 because the man was leading the camel by a rope. 07:45 And it was next to these late Bronze Age 07:48 which is getting close 07:49 to the time of the patriarchal period 07:51 these really alphabetic scripts. 07:54 And not far from that 07:55 we also found a XII dynasty Egyptian text as well. 07:59 So these depictions of the animal, the camels 08:02 seems to be back there in the Bronze Age somewhere, 08:05 we're not sure of the exact date 08:06 but its not too far off from the patriarchal period. 08:09 And so here it was concrete literal stone evidence 08:14 of man being with camels, domesticating camels. 08:18 At the time the Bible says that was happening. 08:20 Now Dr. Younker, the issues are momentous 08:23 because can a person believe this book or not? 08:27 Can a person believe in Christ? 08:29 Can a person believe in Moses? 08:32 Our western civilization is a civilization 08:37 that had been based upon a strong belief 08:41 in the authenticity of Holy Scripture. Right. 08:45 Now this goes-- if this is the foundation 08:48 and if it goes every thing else goes. 08:52 And this seems to be happening in today's world. 08:56 Now people are not so much immoral as amoral. 09:00 People don't know what to believe or what they believe. 09:04 You know, I live in the Los Angeles society, 09:09 not very far from Hollywood. 09:11 And so many people in this society 09:15 are adrift on the currents of unbelief and popular opinion. 09:22 Now you're an Old Testament scholar. 09:25 You've been trained in the Old Testament. 09:28 You're quoting the Hebrew alphabet. 09:31 Aleph, beth, Gammal, Dalet. 09:34 How am I doing? You're doing great. 09:36 You've been to seminary training. 09:40 That's about as far as I can get. 09:45 Sin Shin Taw, that's how it ends, 09:48 that's how it ends. Okay. 09:49 I got the beginning and the end. That's okay. 09:54 You believe obviously in the Old Testament. 09:57 Yes, while there is two levels when you talk about belief. 10:00 And this is an important question to say for this age 10:02 because so many people are adrift. 10:04 We live in the age of post modern, modernism. Yes. 10:08 Everything seems to relative, 10:09 everyone finds truth in their own eyes. 10:11 And questions like was there really a Jesus Christ? 10:13 Was there really a Moses? 10:14 Did he really gave Ten Commandments? 10:15 Do these really come from God? Yeah. 10:17 At a certain level I feel that the historicity of the Bible 10:21 has been a well established the basic timeline. 10:24 Although I have to admit 10:25 that doesn't answer the ultimate questions. 10:27 You know, did God actually speak to Moses? 10:30 Archeology doesn't prove that part. 10:31 No, no, no. So there is combination-- 10:33 We're talking about the historicity of these events. 10:35 So when we look at the historicity, 10:37 yes, archeology can be very helpful. 10:39 It seems like the basic facts, 10:40 the people that we find in the Bible were real people. 10:43 Kenneth Kitchen wrote a book recently 10:45 just a few years ago entitled, 10:46 "On the Reliability of the Old Testament" 10:48 A massive book. A very thick book, right. 10:50 And he basically, his basic point is that 10:53 from archeological records and ancient textual records, 10:56 we can establish quite well that the basic storyline make sense. 11:01 That the events that are said have happened did happen. 11:03 They happened at the time the Bible said they happen 11:05 and the people involved really seem to have been in existence. 11:09 So including the audience wants to hear this friend. 11:13 If you're a young person or an old person 11:16 and you're tempted to give up your faiths. 11:18 You think there's no evidence for God, 11:20 no evidence for the Bible, then listen up 11:23 because today we're going to give you some hard cold facts. 11:30 We're going to be talking about facts. 11:34 The Book of Genesis, it's the book of beginnings. 11:39 Now I personally as a Christian I believe 11:43 I have just been interviewing a famous astronomer 11:46 who lives here in Southern California. 11:48 He used to lecture or work at Caltech 11:52 and I have talked to Hugh Ross. 11:56 We've been talking about evidences for a Creator God. 12:02 I believe with all my soul 12:05 that the evidence points to a great Creator God, 12:08 who spoke the universe and the earth into existence? 12:12 I believe in a personal God who loved us so much 12:15 that He gave Jesus to die for us on the cross. 12:18 That's what I believe. Right 12:20 But its one thing to have that faith and to say you believe 12:24 that is another thing to have that faith based upon evidence. 12:28 And this is what I want you to hear, friend. 12:29 I want you to hear the evidence. 12:33 How seriously do you take the Book of Genesis 12:37 and the story of Abraham and a Joseph who goes down, 12:44 you know, into Egypt 12:46 and who becomes the prime minister 12:50 and then you have the story of the children of Israel 12:56 being treated as slaves 12:59 and then the coming of the deliverer Moses, 13:03 who was rescued as a baby by a girl 13:07 who goes down to the River Nile. 13:10 You know that great old story Right. 13:13 You're an archeologist and you're a scholar. 13:16 How seriously should we take these stories, 13:19 is this pious myth or is this is true? 13:23 I think it's true. 13:24 There is-- I remember Yigael Yadin 13:26 famous Israeli archaeologist 13:28 as he looked and reflected on his archeological career, 13:30 and he was asked the similar question 13:32 about the historicity of the Bible. 13:34 He said, you know, really I can't find 13:36 anything that archeology is disproving. 13:38 For him there are little problems, 13:39 little issues here and there 13:40 but basically the story is intact, 13:43 there is nothing that contradicts the historicity. 13:45 For example of Abraham, people bring sometimes 13:48 some preconceptions to the text 13:50 and they will say, no, no, I can't believe that. 13:51 When you look at questions 13:52 examples like the camel question. 13:55 Well, that can't be true about Abraham, 13:56 because it says he had camels, he didn't. 13:57 But now we're finding more and more evidence like camels. 13:59 Yeah, camels. Yeah. 14:01 Well, it says that they live in tents 14:02 but we know back in the 2nd millennium 14:04 or 3rd millennium they didn't live in tents 14:05 but now we're finding text, ancient text 14:08 and discuss how people lived in tents back in Israeli times. 14:10 So the places where archeology can test 14:13 seem to be in harmony with the Bible story, 14:16 the historicity of the Bible. 14:18 It does not really flat out contradict anything. 14:20 So I believe both as a Christian and as a scholar 14:22 that we can believe in the Bible. 14:24 We can believe in these stories. 14:25 Four years ago I had a most memorable experience 14:30 because I traveled through the great land of the pharaohs 14:33 with the Dr. Younker. 14:35 We'd quite a good time, didn't we? 14:36 We had a great time, that was wonderful. 14:37 Yeah, we took our television crew. 14:39 It was better going then, than it is now I believe. 14:42 Yes, situations have changed. 14:44 Yes, I'm glad we went when we went. 14:45 The Bible tells the story of Joseph 14:48 going down into Egypt and it talks about 14:51 the times of plenty and the times of famine. 14:55 Is there any evidence at all 14:58 that would suggest that Joseph and the story of the famines? 15:04 Yeah. What could you tell us? 15:06 Well there's at least three things I can think of. 15:08 Fist of all we've studied the environment 15:11 of modern day Israel or Palestine. 15:14 And we know that in antiquity famines were common phenomena 15:18 in the land of Canaan as the Bible discusse at that time. 15:21 Even today rainfall coming at the wrong time of the year 15:25 messes up the agriculture production. 15:26 We work from modern year irrigation techniques. 15:28 People would have a rough time getting food 15:30 and even today water is a problem in the Middle East, 15:33 so famines are common occurrence and we read about them. 15:36 Not just for that part of the world 15:37 but down in Egypt there is a couple of examples. 15:39 Saqqara, there is a picture of people 15:42 who are starving to death. 15:43 Literally, they're all skinny, 15:44 their bones are staring out of their ribs. 15:46 This is dated to about 2600 BC and clearly images of famine. 15:50 The Egyptians were aware of the problem of famine 15:52 down near Aswan in one of the islands here. 15:55 There is an inscription that talks about 7 years of famine. 15:59 The same amount of time 16:00 that the Bible talks about in the case of story. 16:02 So the numbers, the concept of famine 16:05 was a very familiar problem. Yeah. 16:07 So I-- there is no reason to doubt. 16:08 This is completely credible. 16:10 It's completely credible, right. 16:11 And then you read the story, you know, 16:14 it's a wonderful story just to read it in the Book of Genesis. 16:19 It talks about the Moses' period. 16:22 And the children of Israel were being oppressed 16:25 by these villainous rulers. 16:30 The pharaoh said, "Get rid of all the people, 16:33 get rid of all the little boys let the girls live." 16:38 And so they became slaves. 16:43 Is there evidence for Israel being in Egypt? 16:46 Now your old professor, I think 16:49 did he talked about this a lot? 16:51 Not so much although he did. 16:53 One of his students, Michael Hasel actually 16:55 talked about the Merneptah Stele. 16:57 And there's a book being written called "Israel in Egypt." 17:00 Yes, by James Hoffmeier, correct, uh-huh. 17:04 What is your considered opinion concerning the historicity 17:07 of the oppression of the Israelites in Egypt. 17:10 Where they-- is there good evidence 17:13 that the Israelites were actually in Egypt. 17:15 Because you'll talk to skeptics today and generally a person 17:20 who is a skeptic is a person who doesn't know. 17:23 But he hasn't any really good reason why he doesn't know 17:27 because of the culture of the times it's just smart to say 17:30 I don't believe as it is to say I do believe. 17:33 And in that culture today people will say 17:35 for all types of reasons for morality or lack there off. 17:39 I have chosen not to believe 17:41 and my opinion is as good as yours. Right. 17:44 I don't believe that my opinion is as good as yours 17:47 if I don't know as much as you do. 17:50 So is there evidence for Israel being in Egypt. 17:53 Tell me please, Randy? 17:54 Jim Hoffmeier's book actually shows that 17:56 the story is extremely credible that all the elements, 17:58 there are certain Egyptians names, 18:00 certain Egyptians customs that are described 18:03 into the biblical story particularly with the part-- 18:06 the Book of Exodus and it all fits, 18:08 there is nothing really, no reason to doubt the story. 18:11 In terms of Egyptian behavior towards people, 18:13 there's many ancient Egyptian documents 18:15 that talk about the enslavement of variety of peoples. 18:19 Israel is not mentioned it has a slave group 18:21 but there are a couple of very intriguing discoveries 18:23 that do talk about Israel by name. 18:26 And one of the more well-known it's been known for actually 18:29 a long time found by Sir Flinders Petrie stone 18:31 called the Merneptah Stele. 18:33 And on this Stele, near the bottom 18:35 you can see it today in the Cairo museum. 18:37 We saw it, didn't we? 18:38 We saw when we were visiting there. 18:39 And it talks about a campaign by an Egyptian pharaoh 18:42 Merneptah in this case. 18:44 And he discusses different peoples 18:46 or cities that he has conquered 18:48 and among the peoples is the name Israel. 18:51 And so that seems to be most scholars agree 18:53 the first reference to biblical Israel. 18:55 However just recently this is literally just over the last-- 18:59 it's been a couple of years since it's been known 19:00 but just getting out to the public for last few weeks. 19:03 In the Berlin Museum pedestal that is dated to about the time, 19:07 it's kind of like the foundation 19:09 for may be a statue or something. 19:10 A pedestal was found 19:11 that has some Egyptian hieroglyphics on it. 19:14 And three Egyptologists just published it 19:16 and the three names are Ashkelon 19:19 which is a well known biblical city near the coast 19:22 where the Philistines lives. Yeah. 19:23 Then Canaan which is of course the name for the land 19:26 that the Israelites were conquered 19:27 and then the third one was the name Israel. 19:31 And these five Egyptologist now so far that have conform 19:34 that that's the actual name of the people. 19:36 And this dates back to about the 18th dynasty of Egypt 19:41 which is about the time when the Bible suggests 19:43 that Moses would have led the Israelites 19:45 out of slavery into the Promised Land. 19:47 And the interesting thing is that the name Israel appears 19:50 in a special named ring and this name ring shows 19:55 the picture of a person with arms bound behind him. 19:58 They're enemy of Egypt. 20:00 So clearly apparently-- It's significant. 20:02 It's very significant than the 18th dynasty already 20:05 just after the time perhaps of Moses, 20:07 the Egyptians were recognizing 20:08 that a people of Israel apparently were their enemy 20:12 and was a group that they were having contentions with. 20:16 So this seems to support the idea that Israel 20:19 was an ancient people group as the Bible suggest. 20:22 It's a very significant discovery. 20:23 I think it's a very significant discovery. 20:26 Can you hear that, friend? 20:27 Here's a discovery that goes back-- 20:30 what years would you say? 20:31 Well it will be about in the 15th centuries 20:34 or the 1400 BC at least. 20:36 Yeah, there is a debate about maybe that early 1300 BC. 20:39 And here Israel is seen, 20:41 Israel is seen as an enemy of the Egyptians. 20:46 Right, yeah, right. What does the skeptic say? 20:48 Well this is so new that there hasn't been much reaction. 20:51 He hasn't quote on it. 20:52 One person who is actually sympathetic 20:54 to the historicity of the Bible in fact it was Jim Hoffmier, 20:56 he was a bit skeptical that it said Israel. 20:59 I think he was being cautious. 21:00 But there's been at least five other Egyptologists 21:02 they've looked at this from every angle in terms of all, 21:05 you know, the technical aspects of the language, 21:07 the orthography, spelling and everything. 21:09 And they're quite convinced this does indeed say Israel. 21:12 And so the reaction hasn't even set in yet from the scholars. 21:15 There's certainly a preconceived biased 21:19 not to believe rather than to believe, isn't that. 21:22 Yeah, that's the normal 21:23 and scholars tend to be reticent we're conservative. 21:26 We don't like to get too far out until we have all the facts 21:28 and all the data in so we can make a good conclusion. 21:32 So on these new discoveries 21:33 we tend to hold back until okay, we'll see. 21:37 You and I with our crew went into a, into a tomb 21:43 and it showed us I think Semitic slaves 21:47 being beaten by their masters. 21:49 Where they Semites? 21:50 Yes, it's believed I think in the caves 21:52 of the pictures we were looking at they were from Syria. 21:54 They were Syrians who have been enslaved by the Egyptians. 21:56 You can see Egyptians taskmasters. 21:59 They're hitting them, 22:00 they are having to make the bricks to put in. 22:01 What was the tomb? Rekhmire, was it? 22:03 Rekhmire, yeah, that's what the tombs. 22:06 And that was not far. Near the Valley of the Kings. 22:11 And we actually took pictures of these people with beads 22:16 being beaten by these slave masters. 22:20 That's correct. 22:21 There are some inscriptions that give us 22:22 a good indication of who these people were. 22:24 They date you know, in an early period 22:28 not too far from the time 22:29 the Israelites would have been slaves there. 22:31 And Genesis or rather the Book of Exodus 22:33 talks about the oppression of these Israelites, 22:37 or all these Semites. 22:38 Right. Yeah. 22:40 And the Egyptians are treating these other people groups, 22:42 in this case the Syrians in the same way. 22:43 So the picture gives us a good figure 22:45 of the what the Israelites slavery would have looked like. 22:48 Now if we believe that 22:51 the Exodus took place in the 15th century, 22:53 you believe that, don't you? Yes. 22:57 This latest discovery would seem to bolster that idea. 23:00 It does because up until this discovery 23:02 the earliest reference to Israel was in 1207. 23:05 Merneptah which would be the late 13th century. 23:08 Others scholars have suggested 23:09 and you know it doesn't have anything to do with your faith 23:12 or whether you're good Christian or bad Christian. 23:14 But they have suggested perhaps 23:15 the story should be dated in the 13th century. 23:18 There are other scholars they suggested 23:20 no, the story didn't happen at all. 23:21 I mean Israel got there in other way 23:23 but finding this suggest that the Egyptians 23:26 were having an antagonist relationship 23:28 with the people name Israel 23:29 back in the 15th century perhaps. 23:32 So this certainly makes the biblical story 23:34 and the biblical chronological information look more credible. 23:37 So it's gonna open up a whole new discussion on this issue. 23:39 Is there not a text in the Bible in 1 Kings 6:1? 23:44 Yeah, 1 Kings 6:1. And it talks about 480 years. 23:47 That's correct, uh-huh. 23:49 That would seem to point the Exodus 23:51 to the middle of the 15th century BC. 23:54 That's correct, it says from the 4th year 23:56 of King Solomon's reign back to the year of the Exodus. 23:58 That's from 1 King 6:1. 24:00 And so if you date King Solomon's 4th year 24:03 to about 966 or 978, get you back to about 1445. 24:06 If we accept that text in some other evidence. 24:10 This would make and you know the authority here 24:14 the pharaoh of the Exodus would be Thutmose's III. 24:19 We have a couple of candidates it could be Thutmose III pen in 24:22 with Egyptian chronology. Or Amenhotep? 24:25 It could be Amenhotep II or perhaps there was a coregency. 24:29 Some conservative scholars have suggested both scenarios. 24:32 I have favored Thutmose II. 24:33 I like Thutmose III the best 24:35 because I have got the best pictures of him. 24:37 I see, okay. 24:39 There is one Egyptian chronological scheme 24:41 that has Thutmose III dieing in 1450. 24:45 Now this isn't accepted by all Egyptologists. No. 24:47 But if that's accurate that would fit very nicely 24:49 with the biblical information-- Talk to me about that? 24:52 Thutmose III dying in 1450 BC because that if that could be-- 24:58 if that would true it is almost, its almost sensational isn't it. 25:06 It is, we have to be careful as scholars, 25:09 you know, as we can explore this 25:10 but there are at least three major Egyptians chronologies. 25:13 Now you're the scholar, you see. 25:14 I'm just an old beat up evangelist. 25:17 Right, but I have a little bit my concern-- 25:20 what can I say conservative scholarly mode here so. 25:23 So we have to be careful but it's perfectly possible 25:26 if we use a mixture of the high chronology 25:28 with one of the lower chronologies for later on 25:31 that you can come out with the date 25:32 of Thutmose III dying about 1450. 25:34 And number of scholars accept that. 25:36 And I think they have a good reason for doing so. 25:38 So when you superimpose that 25:40 with the biblical information of 1 Kings 6:1. 25:42 It does seem to come together. Yes. 25:43 When you add this new discovery 25:45 of Israel being around about that time or shortly after. 25:49 It starts making-- it seem quite credible. 25:51 Remember, the night we spent with the queen. 25:54 Yes. What a night that was. 25:56 And I have advertised this, so you can see him. 25:57 A nice museum. 25:58 I know I have advertise it my night with the queen. 26:02 Yes. In the Cairo museum. 26:05 And doctor Hawass that famous character of-- 26:08 In charge of antiquities. Yes, yes, yes. 26:11 Dr. Hawass, graciously he showed us 26:15 through the royal mummy room. That's right. 26:18 That was an unforgettable experience. Yes 26:20 And we saw there Ramesses the great. Yes. 26:24 Imagine seeing Ramesses the great, 26:27 one of the greatest of the pharaohs. Yes. 26:30 And I think we saw Thutmose I 26:33 and I think we saw Thutmose II. Several. 26:37 We saw Seqenenre, he was the gentlemen 26:41 whose skull was broken in as he was leading a rebellion. 26:46 How is my Egyptology going? Pretty good. 26:49 No too bad for an old evangelist. 26:51 No too bad for an old evangelist. 26:53 Now we also saw a lady there. Yes. 26:57 Tell us about the lady 26:58 because I want you to hear this my friend, 27:01 we saw a lady-- listen to me 27:05 we saw a lady in the Cairo museum 27:08 whose mummy or her body 27:11 had been lost for almost 3,500 years. 27:14 That's right, the mummy was missing. 27:16 Yeah, tell us the story. 27:17 Well, they found a cache of mummies. 27:19 Tell us her name. Yeah. 27:20 Well, that would be Hatshepsut, that was the-- 27:22 They weren't sure actually of the identity of the female mummy 27:25 they could easily tell it was a woman. Yeah. 27:27 But they weren't sure exactly who this woman was. 27:30 There have been some other woman found 27:31 but, you know, usually you find in these cachets 27:34 the mummies of the pharaoh who would be male typically. 27:38 Yes. And their top officials. 27:40 So this woman was intriguing. 27:41 Who was this special woman 27:42 that was with all these other royal or important personages? 27:45 And they suspected it might be Hatshepsut 27:48 but they couldn't be certain. 27:50 In the vicinity not far from 27:52 where they found the cache of mummies 27:53 they found a box as I recalled 27:55 it had a name of Hatshepsut on it. 27:57 There's cartouche and they found a tooth 27:59 among other things inside the box 28:01 and they were able to 28:02 as they looked at the mummy of this woman, 28:04 they saw that there was a tooth missing. 28:06 And when they checked does this tooth fit into that gap. 28:09 Dr. Hawass told us the story. 28:11 He told us the story about that in the interview. 28:13 And so that seemed to be a major indicator 28:16 that this was indeed Hatshepsut 28:18 who was the wife of the Thutmose II 28:22 and the stepmother of Thutmose III. 28:25 A possible candidate for the Exodus story 28:28 according to many scholars. 28:30 And if one goes according to the chronologies 28:33 that are being suggested here today 28:36 and this new discovery makes it 28:38 somewhat more tenable, doesn't it. 28:41 Then she could well have been the girl 28:45 that went down to the River Nile 28:48 and she saw there a little basket 28:51 floating on the River Nile. 28:54 It would be the princess who found Moses, 28:56 that's a potential scenario. Yes. 28:57 And there have been a few scholars 28:59 have suggested that very thing. 29:00 And she brought in the basket and she opened up the basket 29:04 and the baby, she said, it's one of the Hebrews. 29:07 Yes, yes. 29:08 And the Bible says she named him Moses. 29:14 Moses. What does Moses mean? 29:16 Well, there is different explanations of that. 29:18 Some people associate it 29:19 with the son of a certain deity for example. 29:23 Someone who is born off of a certain deity, 29:26 others suggests, the Hebrew suggested 29:27 because I drew him out of the waters. 29:29 It could be, could be both. 29:30 Yeah, and so it's possible it could have-- 29:32 be a play on words. 29:34 But it is fascinating that the suffix Moses 29:37 was very common of pharaohs of the 18th and 19th dynasties. 29:39 Yeah, tell me about this? 29:41 We have Ramesses for example, a person born of the God Ra. 29:44 We have Thutmose. Yeah, the sun god. 29:45 Sun god. Exactly. 29:47 We have Thutmoses and Ahmoses and Kamoses, Ramoses. 29:52 So in the case of the biblical Moses, 29:54 his name seems to fit the names 29:57 that most of the pharaohs of this period of time had, 30:00 except the front end is missing. 30:01 We call that the Thea IV Calvin. 30:03 That's name for the Egyptian deity. 30:05 And that's not surprising because in the Bible 30:07 it's not likely that the writer of the story 30:09 is going to have Moses being born of an Egyptian God. 30:12 Oh, he could have been called Hapi Moses. 30:14 We don't know Happy Moses. 30:15 No, no, harpy, H-A. Oh, yes. 30:17 Because of the God of the Nile 30:19 Exactly. Yes. 30:20 You miss that subtle point, doctor. 30:22 I just did, I thought you were saying happy but you-- 30:24 No, no, no just that's my accent. 30:29 And so- So Moses' names fits, yes. 30:32 Yes, his name fits, the chronology fits. 30:35 And there is a good case and I'm convinced about it 30:39 myself that the girl who went down to the River Nile 30:42 is a beautiful young woman 30:44 is now today a mummy in the Cairo museum. 30:49 And she was one of the great leaders of ancient Egypt. 30:52 A great pharaoh. Right, a great pharaoh. 30:54 A woman who became king. Yes. 30:57 And what we're going to do ladies and gentlemen 31:00 watching this television program, 31:03 I want you to notice the message 31:05 we're going to give you now on the television screen. 31:08 We're going to have a little break. 31:10 And then we're going to come back and tell you 31:12 the amazing story of the bearded queen. 31:18 Why did pharaoh disfigure her face? 31:22 And our guest is the great scholar Dr. Randy Younker. 31:27 Join us, be back. 31:33 Have you ever dreamed of being a biblical archeologist, 31:36 ever wondered how you might help 31:38 stem the flood of secularism 31:40 that's sweeping away the foundations of society? 31:43 Dr. Randall Younker, Director of the Institute of Archeology 31:46 at Andrews University invites you to join him. 31:49 As he and his team continue to unearth evidence 31:52 that shows the truthfulness of a Bible. 31:55 Act now, write today to Dr. Randall Younker, 31:58 Institute of Archaeology at Andrews University, 32:01 Berrien Springs, Michigan, 49104. 32:05 Support our archaeologists as they dig for truth. 32:09 Write down to Dr. Younker, 32:10 Institute of Archaeology at Andrews University 32:14 or call the university at 269-471-3273. 32:19 That number once again, 269-471-3273. 32:33 Welcome back my friend. 32:35 My special guest today is Dr. Randy Younker 32:38 from Andrews University. 32:40 We're delighted to have you with us 32:42 and we're going to talk now about the bearded queen. 32:46 Why did pharaoh disfigured her face. 32:49 We're talking to Dr. Younker, about Queen Hatshepsut. 32:52 Correct, uh-huh.. 32:53 Now in the inscriptions she is shown with a beard. 32:56 That's correct. 32:57 Did she really have a problem or why did she have this beard. 33:01 Well, if you look on some of the statues there, 33:03 where you can see that there is actually a string 33:06 running from the beard up and over ear, 33:08 so it's a fake beard held in place. 33:10 Oh, I never knew that. Yes. 33:12 So that's an intriguing question now. 33:15 So you could see the string? 33:16 You can see the string holding in place. 33:17 So it was important for the king to have this special beard. 33:21 It was assumed that the king 33:22 would be a man at that time of course. 33:24 Now the interesting question is how did a woman 33:26 come to a position to be considered the king. 33:30 And why did she have to wear the beard. 33:31 Well that's obviously she had to be a male-- 33:33 at least appeared to be a male. 33:34 And so the statues really on her are carved that way. 33:37 But it's interesting 33:38 she was never intended to takeover the kingdom, 33:41 the idea after Thutmose II that was that his young son 33:45 who is too young to rule was Thutmose III 33:48 and Hatshepsut was sort of put in control, okay. 33:51 To keep an eye on things until he gained his majority 33:54 once he was 18 he would become king. 33:56 But she liked the job too much. 33:57 Maybe she liked the job too much, 33:59 we don't know exactly what was going on. 34:00 But it's interesting she starts having herself depicted as king, 34:04 she starts wearing the beard. 34:05 As her power becomes more secure, 34:07 you will notice the statue starts changing 34:09 rather than looking like a man. 34:11 In the latter part of the reign she starts looking like a woman. 34:14 So she is one of the first successful woman 34:15 who had certain authority. 34:17 And everything she did was somewhat on a megalithic scale. 34:22 It was big scale, she was actually a very good king. 34:24 Most of the ancient Egyptian kings 34:25 gained their fame and wealth by warfare, 34:28 by killing, by conquest. 34:29 She actually initiated trade 34:32 and had some very large expeditions. 34:35 She brought things from Egypt to other countries 34:37 and bought them from those countries in the Egypt 34:40 and she had a great building campaign. 34:42 She was a very productive leader. 34:44 And then she dies. Then she dies. 34:45 And Thutmose III becomes the king. 34:48 Yeah, it's correct. And he sits on the throne. 34:49 That's right. 34:50 And apparently and I want you to tell us about this. 34:54 An attempt was made to obliterate her memory 34:58 on everything she'd done, what happened? 34:59 An Egyptian believe to live forever 35:02 and the whole idea of pharaoh, they were to live forever 35:04 and take care of their kingdom in the afterlife so to speak 35:07 and so they went to this elaborate, you know, 35:10 amount of work to build either the pyramids earlier on 35:12 or later on they would hide the goods in these tombs. 35:15 So that the pharaoh could insure the good welfare of the kingdom. 35:18 Now in the case of Hatshepsut her name and her images, 35:23 many of them were obliterated 35:25 and this was considered a horrible thing 35:27 because it basically meant 35:28 you're killing both her and the afterlife. 35:30 And destabilizing the kingdom. 35:32 Why would someone do that? 35:33 Well, scholars argue about this but one of the candidates 35:37 or one of these suspects to put in Sherlock Holmes 35:40 probably was Thutmose III, her stepson. 35:42 And the reason would be hypothetically. 35:44 Yeah. He was angry. 35:45 Had good reason. He had good reason. 35:46 He wanted to become pharaoh and his stepmother 35:49 was keeping him off the throne. 35:50 It makes the Bible story credible, doesn't it? 35:53 It makes it. And exciting. 35:55 Some have even suggested that perhaps 35:57 if Moses is fit into this time period 35:59 that he was a character, a candidate. 36:02 May be Hatshepsut had the eyes on her own stepson Moses 36:06 to takeover rather than Thutmose. 36:07 We don't know that. No, no. 36:09 It can fit into the-- yeah. 36:11 Can we make a valid assumption 36:12 that Moses in the Bible could have been the pharaoh? Yes. 36:18 I mean the Book of Hebrew talks about-- 36:20 He was trained to be the pharaoh. 36:22 And of course, in Jewish traditions, 36:23 Josephine and so forth talks about how he was good scholar, 36:26 a great warrior has risen. 36:28 Actually ironically the famous 36:29 Charlton Heston movie produced here. 36:31 I guess in Hollywood. 36:32 It was More Moses and Moses. 36:34 It was More Moses and Moses, that's right. 36:35 And he had this rivalry and then in that case 36:37 he saw this with Ramesses II 36:39 because that was the prevailing thought. 36:40 But you have this rivalry 36:42 and so maybe something similar happened 36:43 between the real Moses and Thutmose III. 36:45 Anyway Moses, we know had to leave according the Bible 36:48 because of killing Egyptian officer. 36:50 Thutmose III may have been angry. 36:51 We don't know whether, you know, 36:52 what the reason must be. No. no. 36:54 But it does seem to be true 36:55 that Hatshepsut's images were destroyed 36:56 and her name was deliberately carved out. 36:58 Yes, we know that. 36:59 Someone was trying to destroy her. 37:00 So was that Thutmose III, there was revenge. 37:03 Amenhotep II the son. Exactly. 37:05 Every reason for him to hate her too. Exactly. 37:08 Because she was disrupting the line of succession. 37:11 Now, you and I went into the Valley of the Kings. 37:15 And we went into the tomb that it only I think 37:18 recently been opened up for public display, 37:20 the tomb of Thutmose III. That's correct. 37:25 Tell us about that tomb because we walked around there, 37:28 my son David was there 37:30 and we had a little television crew. 37:32 And we were allowed to take in this television camera. 37:36 The tomb seem to be-- 37:39 as some would say rough and ready. 37:41 Some suggested actually. 37:43 Again I'm not an art historian but I have read some accounts 37:45 were scholars have wondered 37:46 whether the tomb was quickly completed. 37:50 The art work doesn't always seem to be finished 37:52 to full potential of the artist. 37:54 So did he die prematurely? Yes. 37:57 Another interesting speculation the mummy that's labeled 38:00 as Thutmose III in the Cairo museum 38:03 actually seems to be of a man much younger 38:05 than what Thutmose III would have been 38:07 according to his own records. 38:09 And so people have wondered was a substitute body placed in, 38:13 you know, the burial tomb for Thutmose III. 38:16 And if that's the case what happened to Thutmose III? 38:18 Was he lost at the Red Sea? Did something else happen? 38:21 That they were not able to bury the actual Thutmose III. 38:24 So this is again raised lot of questions. 38:26 And what an exciting story. 38:29 Moses leads, the people have gone out through the Red Sea 38:33 or the Yam Suph is that what it's called? 38:36 Right, uh-huh. 38:37 And the Egyptians are destroyed 38:39 and the pharaoh possibly is also killed 38:43 and that is why the tomb of Thutmoses III is incomplete 38:46 and they finish it in haste. 38:48 It's a great story, isn't it? 38:49 It is a great story. It's a thrilling story. 38:52 And then remember we had the arm risk court 38:55 of about six or seven truckloads of Egyptians soldiers. 39:01 That's right. And we went into the Delta. 39:05 And we went to the old city of, 39:07 I think it was the city of Tell el-Daba. 39:11 Was that the place? Right. 39:13 Right next to, is it Avaris? 39:16 Yes, not far away from the traditional Avaris, right. 39:18 That used to be Hyksos capital, was it? 39:20 Correct. Yes. 39:22 And then also that was the place 39:25 that was called the city of the Ramesses. 39:29 That's right, many modern Egyptologists 39:32 believe that this is actually, 39:34 this is indeed the biblical Ramesses, 39:37 the city of Ramesses. 39:38 What is significant about the site of Tel El Daba 39:42 or the city of Ramesses which once was 39:45 one of the greatest cities of the world? 39:47 Well, it would have been, there's a number of reasons 39:49 why it would have been important 39:50 but it would have been the launching point 39:51 for when the Israelites left Egypt. 39:53 They of course built that city. 39:55 And the Bible says they left the city of Ramesses. 39:57 Yeah, it's the departure point for the Exodus story. 40:00 Of course, earlier on Israelite slaves had built that city. 40:04 We know that, don't we? Yeah. 40:06 Well from the biblical account we have that in Exodus, right. 40:09 Certainly, now it was thought 40:11 that if the city was named after Ramesses 40:13 that would be a 13th century time. 40:15 But not necessarily so. 40:16 But not necessarily so because they have 40:17 excavated remains from the 18th dynasty as well now. 40:22 And so its very possible later times 40:24 this was known as the city of Ramesses 40:25 but prior to that time 40:27 the Israelites could have lived there, 40:28 they could have built the city in the 18th dynasty 40:30 and used that as the starting point. 40:32 So it doesn't contradict the biblical story. 40:34 In fact it could fit in. 40:35 Now that's city, Dr. Younker, was really the city 40:38 that saw the birth of freedom, wasn't that? 40:41 Well, yes, literally for the Israelites 40:42 and that became a template for freedom for people. 40:44 The children of Israel actually left that place 40:47 which is a barren place now as far as the city is concerned. 40:50 It's only farming country. That's right. 40:52 All the ruins are underneath the cornfield stuff. 40:54 And they traveled through Yam Suph 40:57 and they made their way into the land of Palestine. 41:01 All of these discoveries as far as I'm concerned-- 41:05 these discoveries are a remarkable 41:08 confirmation of the Bible story. 41:11 It makes the Bible story so credible. 41:14 Would you agree? I agree, yeah. 41:16 Everything fits into the story. 41:17 There is no reason not to believe in the biblical story. 41:20 Many other pieces are out there. 41:21 And for an open minded person there is no reason 41:23 not to have confidence in the biblical story. 41:26 Remember, how we were escorted 41:27 by the Egyptians soldiers. Right. 41:30 Because they were afraid of terrorism and so forth. 41:32 That's correct. That was legitimate fear. 41:33 You know, yeah, legitimate fears particularly today. 41:37 It was a tremendous day and we saw some amazing things. 41:43 Hazor is up in the north of Israel. 41:45 That's correct, yes. 41:46 Now the children of Israel went to the city of Hazor. 41:50 And we visited Hazor and we discovered 41:53 something quite amazing in Hazor 41:56 because I think if my memory is still working today 42:00 it tells us that the children of Israel 42:02 when they invaded this part of the world they burned Hazor. 42:06 That's correct, yes. Tell me about Hazor. 42:09 Well, Hazor is again been controversial for archeologists 42:12 and if an archeologist is looking 42:14 for a 13th century Exodus. 42:15 They have tried and match up 42:17 their archeological layers with that. 42:19 It doesn't quite fit 42:20 but there is some evidence of burning about a time of a-- 42:23 you know, around 1400 or shortly there after about. 42:26 Yes, big burning. I have seen the ash. 42:28 Right, so there are again some conservative scholars 42:30 have pointed, hey, this evidence from Hazor 42:32 seems to fit the Joshua conquest. 42:35 And we also have some evidence for the later conquest 42:38 of the prophetess Deborah from Mount Tabor and so forth. 42:40 But every scholar would have been forced to accept 42:43 the truth that Hazor was destroyed by the Israelites. 42:47 Would you not? 42:48 Well, of course, when you come into the site archeologically 42:51 and you find the burned layer. 42:52 The burn layer is there and I don't know 42:54 if anyone who is disputing that 42:55 but it doesn't say burned by Joshua 42:57 so that's the difference we have to go to the biblical text. 43:00 I thought when I was there. 43:01 And you know, it's a while since I was there, 43:04 I thought the Israeli inscription said 43:06 it was result of Joshua's invasion. 43:10 Oh, I think the archeologist working there 43:12 have interpreted some of the finds that way, 43:14 so they probably have it on their explanatory site. 43:16 Although I think-- on their sign, I'm sorry. 43:18 But I think they're thinking of the 13th century conquest, 43:21 they are identifying a different layer. 43:23 We're suggesting maybe the lower burn layer 43:25 could fit the biblical account better. 43:27 Oh, it's an amazing discovery. 43:29 Yes. Tell me this. 43:33 Sometime ago we went into the Israeli museum 43:37 or one of the museums in Jerusalem. 43:39 And we saw there a tablet 43:41 that actually mentions that amazing character. 43:45 That charismatic character, King David. 43:49 Correct. Tell me about that? 43:50 Well, that's another very-- 43:52 And listen to this, friend, King David. Yes. 43:54 Resurrected, listen to this. 43:57 Well, a few years ago at site northern Israel called Dan-- 44:00 Tel Dan which is biblical,-- 44:02 ancient biblical age, the patriarchal period. 44:04 They were excavating and in the gateway 44:06 of the Iron Age level city from about the 9th century BC. 44:10 A one young lady as I recall found a stone there-- 44:13 as she pulled the stone out it was in the city gate complex. 44:17 She saw that on the backside it was flat 44:19 and as they clean it 44:20 they realized there was writing on it. 44:23 And it turned out it was ancient 44:24 Aramaic Assyrian language 44:25 to the north of the ancient Israelites 44:26 and it tells about the Assyrian king 44:28 conquering this Israelite city 44:30 And in the course of describing his conquest 44:33 he brags about conquering of this and that. 44:34 So it mentions the house of David. 44:36 Basically he had conquered the big Davi the house of David. 44:40 This was exciting because it was one of the-- 44:42 or the first I think archeological conformation 44:45 of histories to King David of the Bible. 44:47 And before this, this was dispute about the skeptic. 44:50 Oh, yeah, the minimalist and meticulous. 44:51 Minimalist said no, no, there is no King David, 44:54 he is no more historical-- 44:55 And a minimalist found it, isn't this so? 44:57 A Minimal student, yeah, 44:58 the student of a minimalist actually found it. 45:00 It was not something she necessarily 45:01 would wanted to find. No. 45:03 And of course most of the biblical archeologist 45:05 and already the Syro Palestinian archeologist, 45:07 they agreed this is indeed David, 45:08 it's the minimalist who have been trying to fight this. 45:11 Now when you where a student 45:12 and you were working with your old professor 45:14 from what, Arizona University? 45:16 Yes, right, University of Arizona. 45:18 And you are working with the great doctor. 45:20 You made a significant discovery. 45:23 Tell us about that how you said, let's keep on digging. 45:26 Well, it wasn't just me, it was my team 45:28 but I was working at the site of Gaza 45:30 and there had been big dispute about both the Solomonic period. 45:33 There the Bible said Solomon rebuild Gaza in 1 Kings 9 45:37 and then earlier in the account of Joshua it said just that 45:40 Gaza is the one of the cities that Joshua conquered. 45:43 Minimalist having been saying, 45:44 no, no, there is no archeological evidence for 45:46 you know, these events for occupation that really involved. 45:48 Yeah, its old pious fraud. Yeah. 45:50 It's old pious fraud written later, 45:52 so in the section he actually found good credible evidence 45:56 at the gateway the fortified gateway-- 45:58 And he's quite a scholar, isn't he? 46:00 He is quite a scholar. Yeah. 46:01 He is not necessarily agreeing with everything the Bible says. 46:03 No, no, no but a good, good archeologist, yeah. 46:05 Well known, but he found good evidence 46:07 at the 10th century construction of the gate 46:10 and the wall seems to fit in with the biblical account 46:12 that the Solomonic fortification were indeed there. 46:16 Over where I was working, we were trying to dig a wall 46:20 and as we were digging down on this wall 46:21 almost go back to the time of Joshua 46:23 and we could only find dates to Assyrian periods in 8th century. 46:27 And the skeptic saying that's what we accepted, 46:29 you're not going to find anything earlier. 46:30 And after digging for several weeks 46:32 we did not find anything earlier 46:33 but we got to what we thought was the bottom of the wall 46:36 and there seemed to be about 27 meters of dirt. 46:40 And it looked like, okay, there is nothing here 46:42 that dates earlier than the 8th century, 46:44 there's nothing back to Joshua. 46:46 Well I suggest let's go ahead and dig a little bit more. 46:49 Even though it doesn't make sense 46:51 and so my professors agreed, we came back started excavating. 46:54 And after about 20 centimeters 46:55 we found another wall down there that was a surprise. 46:58 And we started excavating it stratigraphically 47:00 and as we kept going down further we saw the dates 47:04 where the ceramics, the pottery up against the wall. 47:06 It kept getting older, and older, and older 47:08 and we got all the way back into the time 47:11 approximately of Joshua into the late Bronze Age. 47:14 Back to the days of Joshua. 47:15 So it was very exciting. And it is exciting. 47:18 And this is not what the skeptics were- 47:19 So we are talking about a book here that we can believe. 47:22 Right, again the archeological evidence, 47:24 skeptic said it doesn't fit but as you continue to work 47:26 and more and more pieces seem to suggest well maybe-- Yeah. 47:29 We have to pay attention to Biblical story. 47:31 Yeah, don't give up your faith. Don't give up on it, right. 47:33 Don't give up your faith 47:34 because the evidence is coming in 47:36 and the evidence says there is a God in the Bible is true. 47:40 You've just come back from the Jordan. 47:42 You seem to live there a little bit. 47:43 I spent quite a bit of time. How often times of the year? 47:46 I can't even keep track 47:47 I usually go once or twice a year for excavation. 47:50 May by 30 for 40 times. Probably so. 47:54 What are you doing in Jordan? 47:56 Well, right now we're excavating a site not far from Mount Nebo 47:59 about south east a few kilometers off from Mount Nebo. 48:02 Do you like that part of the world? 48:04 I do, I love that part of the world. 48:05 I love it too. I love Mount Nebo. 48:07 Yes, the whole region is fun. I love the modern culture. 48:09 I love the people there today and I love the- 48:11 Jordan is a magnificent country. 48:13 Really and the people are wonderful. 48:14 I think, you know, I don't know if I should say this 48:16 but its certainly my favorite Middle Eastern country. 48:20 It's a wonderful country. 48:21 Jordanians are warm friendly, the place is safe, it's clean. 48:27 And you know Petra and all of those places. 48:29 It's full of some wonderful places. Right. 48:32 But tell us about your archeological dig. 48:35 We are working at Jelore which is just south of Mount Nebo area 48:39 and it's in a location which could be 48:41 were the Israelites would have come through 48:43 on their leaving Egypt there wandering in the wilderness 48:46 and they come by Mount Nebo of course Moses goes to Nebo 48:49 and then they cross over into you know, the Promised Land. 48:53 And our site-- we're not sure 48:55 its one of the biggest sites in the area. 48:57 And it's been speculation is this 48:59 you know, biblical Hesban for example. 49:00 Oh, there is a Arabic site called Hesban 49:03 to the north where Dr. Horn excavated 49:05 but he didn't find any evidence for this earlier period. 49:08 But at Julore where we've have been digging 49:09 we do have material from late Bronze Age 49:11 from about the time of the conquest. 49:13 And so we're intrigued by that, 49:14 another thing that's fascinated just recently 49:17 was a discovery of a great big pool in our site. 49:19 In fact a series of pools-- the water system. 49:21 And that's fascinating because the Bible says 49:23 or at least King Solomon or the song of Solomon 49:26 it talks about his beloved eyes 49:28 being as beautiful as the pools of Hesban. 49:31 Oh, goodness. 49:32 And so here we found this series of pool. 49:34 This is really the romance of archeology. 49:36 The romance of archeology and so we are right now 49:38 in the process of excavating these pools. 49:40 There is a major reservoir that seem to been fed by a spring 49:42 and it ran and there's a big water channel 49:44 it runs to the city wall 49:45 into four large pools outside the city. 49:48 And so we're now dating those and we have some evidence 49:51 they might go back to Solomon's time. 49:53 If so, that could be another indication 49:55 that we have got maybe the site of Hesban. 49:58 A famous character is Nebuchadnezzar. 50:02 Right, Nebuchadnezzar. 50:03 Yeah, he is from the Book of Daniel. Correct. 50:06 And most folks have heard of old Nebuchadnezzar. 50:11 Is there anything new on Nebuchadnezzar? 50:15 Actually there is it was just announced not long ago 50:17 that a new stele of Nebuchadnezzar has been found. 50:22 Interesting, of all the Babylonian 50:24 and Assyrian kings we don't have many pictures of Nebuchadnezzar. 50:26 We have his name on lots of things. 50:28 He puts his name in every brick of the city of Babylon. 50:31 Is this not great Babylon that I have built. 50:33 And his name is on the bricks. 50:34 So there is no doubt about historicity. 50:36 And this recent stele gives some additional information 50:38 and it shows a picture of Nebuchadnezzar, perhaps-- 50:40 Goodness, a picture of Nebuchadnezzar. 50:43 Best one ever preserved. 50:44 I think it's only the 4th picture of him ever found 50:46 and this is probably the best. 50:48 It shows the sternness and the power of this great king. 50:52 And this is the man who is actually 50:54 mentioned over here in the Book of Daniel. 50:58 It says in the third year of the reign of Jehoi, 51:01 king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon 51:06 came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 51:08 He is not a myth, is he? 51:10 He is absolutely not a myth. No. 51:11 That's something no one disputes. 51:12 We have evidence of Nebuchadnezzar. 51:14 We have his cities. 51:15 We have his name in inscriptions 51:16 and we have a story in the Book of Daniel. 51:18 But if we hadn't found these things skeptic would have said 51:20 there was no such person as Nebuchadnezzar. 51:22 In the early days, yes, 51:23 there was a Sargon for example is a great case. 51:26 He said, look, 51:27 there's no archeological evidence for Sargon. 51:29 He wasn't really a king but then suddenly 51:31 the archeologist found an inscription with his name on it. 51:34 And Isaiah 20 was referring. 51:35 So we've actually got a picture now of Nebuchadnezzar. 51:39 Yes, we have a good-- 51:40 who became a friend of the Prophet Daniel. 51:42 That's correct. 51:43 And who ended up extolling the God of heaven 51:45 because of his amazing experience. 51:50 Jesus-- Yes. 51:53 You believe in Jesus? Absolutely. 51:55 There's two levels here. 51:56 I believe in Him historically, 51:58 I also believe Him as savior of course. 52:00 Let's have the two levels. 52:01 Why do you believe in Him historically? 52:03 Well historically, the phenomena of Christianity 52:06 exploded so quickly it's hard to deny 52:09 that there wasn't a person behind that. 52:11 But yes, we have references very close to, you know, 52:13 just after Jesus' death, Roman historians, 52:17 we have the Jewish historian Josephus for example. 52:20 We have Pliny the Younger a Roman historian, 52:22 we have Titicus, others 52:25 who actually make reference to Jesus. 52:27 Sometimes neutral, 52:28 sometimes what we were going to do with all these Christians. 52:30 So he is a man of history. So he is a man of history. 52:33 But on the second level? 52:35 Well, then also on the second level 52:36 is a spiritual level, when you open up the Bible 52:39 you read the loving story of Jesus. 52:41 How He came to die for our sins? 52:43 How He is savior for mankind? 52:45 When you combine the reading of that 52:47 with the power of the Holy Spirit, 52:48 which is a subjective experience on the heart and mind. 52:51 That also is a convicting power 52:54 for the existence of Jesus Christ. 52:55 But that's not something I prove archeologically. 52:57 No, no, but Jesus is your savior. Right. 53:00 And he is your Lord. That's correct. 53:01 And you have peace. Absolutely. 53:03 And you have meaning in your life. 53:05 Correct. Yes, the core, yeah. 53:07 And you teach a bunch of arch's students. Right. 53:10 And you try to communicate not only the facts of history 53:14 but the truth and the reality of the lordship of Christ. 53:17 Absolutely, 'cause that's-- 53:18 that's the centrality of the meaning of life. 53:23 We are honored to know you, Dr. Younker. 53:27 We are proud to be associated with you. 53:29 We believe that Andrews University is a great University 53:33 and we believe that your work that you're doing 53:36 is second to none we believe it's a great work 53:39 because it's giving people faith in the old book, 53:43 that points to God the creator. 53:47 And Jesus Christ our Lord. 53:50 I want to thank you for what you do. Thank you. 53:53 I want to thank you for coming all the way from Jordan 53:55 and from Andrews University. 53:57 You want to get home, I know. 54:00 We wanted you to stay for the weekend 54:02 but you haven't seen your beautiful wife. 54:03 and you go on your way home. 54:05 We say God bless you and thank you for ministry. 54:08 Thank you, thank you. 54:09 And I want to thank you for joining us today. 54:11 Please write to me. 54:13 John Carter, PO Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, CA, 91358. 54:19 Its right there on the screen. 54:21 In Australia, write to me at Terrigal. 54:23 There is the box number of the screen 54:27 and until next time keep your faith in God 54:29 Jesus is alive and may God bless you. 54:36 The Carter report is a self supporting ministry 54:39 with a global mission. 54:41 We believe that the most important thing 54:43 that we can do in this tremendous hour 54:46 is to tell people about the Lord Jesus Christ because Jesus said, 54:50 "I am the way, the truth and the life." 54:53 We do not believe that this is business as usual. 54:57 We believe that we are living in the closing hours 55:01 in the history of this world. 55:02 Bless your heart, friend. 55:04 Look at the signs that are being fulfilled almost every day. 55:08 The signs of the times are shouting at us 55:11 and they are saying, Jesus is coming soon. 55:14 I want you to be my partner in global mission. 55:18 I want you to be my partner in helping 55:20 to tell the world about the coming of Jesus. 55:24 I want you to be my partner in the preaching 55:27 of the distinctive truths of the Three Angels' Messages. 55:31 Please, check us out 55:34 at the new Carter Report website, catereport.org. 55:38 We have a special section whereby you can ask questions 55:43 and I will give you the answers 55:45 from the Living Word of the Living God, 55:49 that is the cartereport.org. 55:53 My friend, we want you to join us 55:56 in the mission to preach the gospel 55:59 in China, in India, in Australia, in Africa, 56:05 in United States of America, wherever people are lost 56:09 and wherever people need to hear the good news that Jesus saves. 56:15 Please, check us out, 56:16 the new carter report website, cartereport.org. 56:21 I want to hear from you today. |
Revised 2013-09-05