Participants: Pr. John Carter (Host), Fazale Rana, Hugh Ross
Series Code: CR
Program Code: CR001315
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00:08 From Arcadia, California, the Carter report presents
00:11 "The Living Word" around the world. 00:19 Hello, friend, I'm John Carter. 00:21 Welcome to the Carter report. And we got a show for you today. 00:26 We are going to talk about 00:28 "the glory of God 00:31 and making sense of our incredible universe" 00:35 we have two distinguish guests with us, 00:38 both eminent scientists, 00:41 Dr. Hugh Ross and also Dr. Fazale Rana, 00:45 they both come to us from Reasons to Believe 00:48 here in Southern California. 00:50 Welcome to the program. 00:56 Jesus said, "Go into all the world 00:58 and make disciples of all nations, 01:00 baptizing them in the name of the Father, 01:02 Son, and Holy Spirit." 01:04 The Carter Report team has therefore 01:07 accepted the challenge of worldwide evangelism. 01:10 Million in Russia, Ukraine, the Philippines, 01:13 Africa, India, Australia, the United States, 01:17 and the Isles of the Sea 01:19 have heard the good news of Christ. 01:21 As John Carter has proclaimed God's Living Word. 01:25 You are invited to be a part of the Carter team 01:28 by praying and by giving and when God calls by going. 01:32 Write a note now to Pastor John Carter. 01:35 PO Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, California 91358 01:41 or to PO Box 861, Terrigal, 01:45 NSW 2260, Australia. 01:49 Jesus said, "With God all things are possible." 01:58 Our program today is 01:59 "Making Sense of Our Incredible Universe and the glory of God." 02:05 We have with us two great scientists Dr. Ross. 02:09 Welcome today from Reasons to Believe. 02:11 We are glad that you joined us. 02:13 It's a privilege for us to have you with us 02:15 and the same to you Dr. Rana. Thank you for inviting me. 02:18 You are a biologist, why is a biologist 02:22 also interested in astronomy because you are. 02:25 Well, you know astronomy is the study of universe 02:28 and life exists within the universe 02:31 and it's interesting that astronomers have discovered 02:34 that the universe has to be exquisitely fine-tuned, 02:37 very carefully put together for life to be possible. 02:41 But also evolutionary biologist claim that life 02:44 which is so elegant in its designs 02:47 emerge through evolutionary processes 02:50 and one way that we can critically evaluate that idea 02:53 is to look at-- when does life originate. 02:57 What are the resources available to it, 03:00 to life when it originates. 03:02 You know, so in another words, 03:03 life's history is in the context 03:06 of the universe's history. Yes, yes. 03:10 How did you get interested Hugh in astronomy, 03:13 because you are great astronomer, 03:15 you have done lot of work down at Caltech, 03:19 one of the great universities in the world. 03:22 What drove you to become an astronomer? 03:24 Well, my parents say that I was a born scientist, 03:27 I had this innate curiosity, 03:29 I was doing experiments when I was a toddler. 03:31 You were? Yes. 03:32 Just a little guy. 03:33 Just a little guy almost burned down 03:35 my grandmother's house in the process, 03:37 so got into lot of trouble. 03:39 But I was at age seven, that I really got fascinated 03:42 about stars and galaxies 03:44 and I was reading everything that I can find on them. 03:46 I knew from the age of eight 03:47 that astrophysics would be my future career. 03:50 Kind of amazing you must have been called to do this? 03:53 I think so, I mean I just had to know 03:56 what was going on in the universe 03:58 and every year I would study 04:01 a different discipline of astronomy. 04:03 And that's what kind of led me to give my life to Christ. 04:07 And so, both of you men 04:10 you deal with the same subject but at the opposite extremes. 04:15 You are into biology, you talk about the cell, 04:18 which is incredibly small and incredibly complex. 04:23 And you deal with the universe 04:24 which is incredibly large and incredibly complex. 04:30 Just tell me, the complexity of a cell. 04:36 How complex is a cell? 04:39 Well, the analogy that I like to use 04:42 particularly to somebody who doesn't have 04:43 a lot of familiarity with biological system. Like me. 04:47 Would be a city, a cell is like a city, 04:50 it's an incredibly complex system. 04:53 We have molecules that are carrying out 04:55 all kinds of different processes 04:57 and those processes are network together 04:59 and each process is contributing 05:01 to the overall benefit of the cell. 05:04 There are systems that are generating energy, 05:06 systems that are like assembly lines 05:08 making molecules and machines. 05:11 Molecular level machines in the cell 05:13 that are carrying out operations, 05:15 there is a control center. 05:16 And so when you see the complexity of a single cell, 05:21 you used it on one of our programs 05:24 an analogy is like Los Angeles. Yes. 05:26 And you said it's better organized. 05:29 It's better organized 05:30 especially the trash trucks are better organized. 05:33 And not so many pot holes. 05:35 And but you do have freeways and everything don't you. 05:37 Yeah, there is these highway systems inside the cell 05:40 that are track ways that molecules will walk along 05:44 and move along carrying cargo 05:46 from one place to the other in cell, 05:49 these are called molecular motors 05:50 or molecular machines that carry out these processes. 05:54 Tiny they are so small so small, so complex 05:59 and we are told by some cleaver people 06:03 that they sort of self originated. 06:06 Yeah, and that's to me, very, very difficult to accept. 06:09 Hard for me to believe this. 06:11 I'm highly skeptical because when you look 06:13 at the scientific explanations 06:16 for how life comes from non-life. 06:18 Those explanations leave a lot to be desired. 06:21 They are lacking robustness. 06:24 They don't have strong support. 06:27 So, atheistic evolution 06:29 that says that life came from non-life 06:33 in relatively short period of time, relatively. 06:36 Yes. It seems absurd. 06:39 What astronomy tells us is that we don't even have 06:41 the building blocks and the life originates 06:44 on planet earth in a short window of time. 06:47 But the basic building blocks you need are there 06:49 but physics says they're not allowed to be there. 06:52 And so you are very comfortable 06:54 as scientist with faith in the Bible. Yes. 07:00 What would say to a young guy or a young girl 07:02 and they have gone to hear Professor Richard Dawkins 07:06 or somebody like this at Oxford University 07:09 or one of some other great university. 07:12 And they told this no God because we don't need Him. 07:16 I heard one famous man say recently, 07:19 he said well, it's not a case of talking about God, 07:22 we don't need Him. He doesn't exist. 07:26 What would you say to a young person? 07:28 What would you say? 07:30 Ah, often times I think people who take that position, 07:34 who are atheists, who are agnostics 07:37 that deny the existence of God 07:39 or are not convinced that God exists 07:42 are really operating with other reasons 07:45 that are motivating that position 07:47 and they try to use science 07:49 as a way to justify their atheism. Yes, yes. 07:52 And it's almost the philosophical commitment 07:54 ahead of time to an atheistic worldview 07:57 and then everything in nature is viewed from that perspective. 08:00 So thinking doesn't happen in a vacuum, does it? 08:03 No, it doesn't. 08:04 Now, there are many, many factors 08:05 where people take certain view points, 08:08 theological or scientific. 08:12 How big now, we know a cell is very, very small. 08:16 How big is the universe? 08:18 Well, thanks to the Hubble Space Telescope, 08:20 we know that the observable universe. 08:23 It's a universe that we can see 08:25 and theoretically see it contains about 08:27 two hundred billion medium and large galaxies. 08:33 Two hundred thousand million? 08:36 Yes. Two hundred billion. 08:38 Right. Galaxies. 08:40 Where each galaxy contains about 200 billion stars. 08:45 So we are looking in above 50 billion trillion stars 08:48 total if we add in all-- How many stars again? 08:50 50 billion trillion stars in the observable universe. 08:53 50 billion trillion stars? Right. 08:55 And then you got other stuff out there too 08:57 like comets, black holes. 09:00 But black holes are not black holes 09:02 usually the very center of the galaxy. 09:05 They can be the big ones are, 09:06 there are also smaller black holes 09:08 that are scattered throughout the galaxy 09:10 and they are basically burnt out stars. 09:12 And when a big star burns out, it will leave a black hole. 09:15 Because it collapses upon itself. Right. 09:18 Everything falls in. 09:20 And then black holes can merge together 09:21 to make bigger black holes 09:23 that's how you get the super giant black holes. 09:25 Now, in the Milky Way system that we can see every night 09:30 except if you live in Los Angeles. 09:32 In the Milky Way system, 09:36 is it not true that at the center of our system, 09:39 which has what two hundred billion stars or something? 09:42 It's above 400 billion stars now. 09:43 It's gone up now. It's gone up a bit. 09:45 I need to keep my reading up to date, 400 billion stars. 09:49 There is a black hole in the center. Yes. 09:51 And everything goes around that? 09:54 Yes, and it is consuming mass at a very slow rate. 09:58 It's about three million times a mass of our star, the sun. 10:01 How far is planet earth from this uncomfortable black hole? 10:06 Because if we got close to the black hole 10:09 is it not true we'd go in, we'd be sucked in? 10:12 If we got very close. How close? 10:14 Well, I mean-- Close enough. 10:17 If we go within a few trillion miles you would be in trouble. 10:19 Within a few trillion miles? Yeah. 10:20 That's close. That's close. 10:22 It means that the universe is somewhat very big, isn't it? 10:24 A lot bigger than that, 10:25 a light year is six trillion miles. 10:28 So how far are we from the center of the universe 10:31 of our galaxy the center from this black hole? 10:35 We are about, you know, 27,000 light years 10:39 away from the center of the black hole. 10:41 So we are safe distance away. 10:46 Is it true that we are strategically placed? 10:51 Yes, we are. 10:52 We're at distance from the center of the galaxy 10:56 where the spiral arm structure rotates at the same rate 11:00 that the sun revolves around the center of the galaxy, 11:03 which means that we cross spiral arms 11:06 only about once every billion years. 11:08 And right now, we are a half way 11:10 between one spiral arm crossing and the next 11:14 and that's a safe zone for advanced life. 11:17 and if you are bacterium 11:18 you can handle crossing a spiral arm, 11:20 but if you are an advanced life form, 11:22 you don't want to be at that time. 11:25 Also to if we were in another place 11:28 would we be exposed to excessive amounts of radiation? 11:34 That's true, if you are closer to the center of the galaxy 11:36 you'd be exposed to radiation. 11:38 If you are close to spiral arm, 11:40 you will be exposed to deadly radiation, 11:42 but if you are too far away from the center, 11:44 you will not have the elements you need to make life 11:48 and so we are at the exact spot within the universe 11:52 where advanced life is possible 11:54 and that same spot is the only spot in our galaxy 11:57 we actually get to see outside of our galaxy. 12:00 Now, let's break this down. 12:02 We are at a spot in the universe 12:04 where we are safe from the spiral arms, 12:08 we are safe from excessive amounts of radiation, 12:12 but you are saying we are in a spot we can see out, 12:15 what does that mean? 12:16 Well, there is only one location in our galaxy 12:19 where we actually get to see 12:21 the entire observable extend of the universe. 12:24 It actually be able to directly observe 12:26 the cosmic creation event, 12:28 but to somewhere else in the galaxy 12:30 there will be too much light illuminating our sky. 12:32 It's like driving into the sun. 12:35 If we are in a spot where, 12:37 we weren't in a dark spot. Right. 12:41 If we were in a bright spot 12:43 it will be difficult to see at it, is it? 12:44 Other way to burn it is, 12:45 we are living in the darkest life 12:47 conceivable location in our galaxy 12:50 and it's because we are in that darkest possible spot, 12:53 we can see the entirety of the history of universe 12:56 and actually read the whole story book of the universe. 12:59 So we can see the cosmic story from planet earth? 13:03 From planet earth we can see the story 13:05 from the very beginning of the creation of the universe 13:08 right up to the present moment. 13:10 But we couldn't see this if we were popped in some other place? 13:13 Or we were at a different time. 13:15 If we were put here any earlier, we would only be seeing 13:17 a portion of a history of the universe. 13:20 Likewise we were put here any later, 13:22 we only be seeing a portion of the history of the universe. 13:25 What does that-- what does that tell you Fazale? 13:28 Well, to me it says 13:30 that there is an incredible design in the universe 13:32 that there is a purpose to the universe 13:34 and the purpose to human life. 13:36 So this could not have happened by itself? 13:39 Or God wanted us to read the whole book 13:41 from start to finish. Yes, yes. 13:43 And there is only one spot 13:44 and one time where we can read the whole book. 13:47 What an incredible truth, what an incredible observation. 13:51 We are at a spot in the cosmos 13:54 where we can look at and look back through time. 13:58 We are in a place where we are protected 14:00 so whether you go from the smallest to the biggest, 14:04 it seems to be that there is a guiding hand 14:11 and a great mind that has planned it all. 14:15 So it's pretty hard to be an atheist 14:18 or even an agnostic and believe this stuff. 14:22 Well, the heavens declare the glory of God. 14:24 They declare His righteousness 14:26 and God want us to see all that glory and righteousness. 14:30 We will be back after this short break. 14:33 We are talking about how big is the universe. 14:37 We are talking about the evolutionary idea. 14:40 We are talking about the great God who made the stars. 14:44 We have two great scientists with us. 14:47 We will be back in a moment. 14:53 Hello friend, I am John Carter in Colombia. 14:57 Behind me is the great city of Bogota, 15:00 the capital of this amazing country. 15:04 This city is a city of more than eight million souls. 15:10 It's up more than 8,000 feet in the Andes. 15:16 And we've come here today with one purpose in mind 15:19 to preach the everlasting gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15:24 We are here because we have a commission from God. 15:28 Jesus said, "Go into all the world 15:32 and preach the everlasting gospel, 15:35 baptizing them in the name of the Father, 15:37 and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." 15:40 The people here need the Gospel of Christ. 15:45 And I am asking you today come with us, 15:47 if not in body but come with us in spirit. 15:51 This has been a very, very dangerous city. 15:54 A very dangerous part of the world, 15:57 but we believe that we are safe 15:59 when we are in the hands of God. 16:02 Therefore I am beseeching you in the name of Christ 16:06 and in the names of these eight million plus 16:10 inhabitants in the city of Bogota 16:13 to come and help us to preach the word of God. 16:17 Please support the preaching of the word of God in Columbia. 16:21 Please write to me, John Carter, PO Box 1900, 16:26 Thousand Oaks, California, 91358. 16:29 In Australia, write to me at the address, 16:32 Terrigal, New South Wales, Australia. 16:36 Jesus said, "Work while it is day 16:40 the night is coming when no man can work." 16:43 Please write to me today. 16:45 Thank you, and God bless you. 16:54 Welcome back. 16:56 We are talking to Dr. Hugh Ross 16:57 and also Dr. Fazale Rana, two eminent scientists. 17:02 And we are talking about making sense of the universe. 17:07 You were describing the vastness of the universe. 17:11 Now you have--you got your doctorate in astronomy. 17:15 Got your doctorate in biology. 17:18 You both come at the-- 17:20 at the subject from different poles from extremes. 17:24 You come from the very smallest, you come from the very biggest. 17:29 We talked a little moment ago 17:31 about the complexity of the single cell 17:35 and how it seems utterly incomprehensible 17:37 that a cell could have made itself. 17:39 I think it absurd 17:41 for people to think that cells can make a cell. 17:43 Now we are talking about the universe, 17:47 talk to me and we've discussed this in other occasions, 17:49 but for the sake of people who are just tuning in now. 17:53 Talk to me about the Big Bang, the Big Bang Theory 17:57 and its relationship to Genesis Chapter 1. 18:01 Genesis 1 in the beginning 18:02 God created the heavens and the earth. 18:05 That phrase, the heavens and the earth 18:07 means the entire universe. It's the cosmos. 18:10 It's the cosmos. 18:12 As the Hebrews understood 18:13 it was all of everything we can see or measure, 18:16 so it's encompassing all matter, energy, space and time. 18:21 And if we go to the New Testament 18:22 you actually find passage is very explicit 18:25 about the universe being the beginning of space and time. 18:29 Let's talk about this for a moment. 18:33 You are saying that there was a time when there was no time. 18:37 Well, I think time is bigger than cosmic time. 18:40 I prefer to use to the term temporality 18:43 before God created cosmic time the time dimension 18:47 to which we are constrain God was in relationship. 18:50 There are three members of the triune Godhead. 18:52 They were in relationship with one another. 18:55 And they were making plans, mean it tells us 18:57 in Timothy and Titus that before God created time, 19:01 He was already setting into affect the grace 19:04 that He was going to bestow upon His human followers 19:07 which He had not yet created. 19:09 So God was in a planning environment 19:11 before He created time. 19:13 So God was experiencing temporal phenomena 19:16 before He created cosmic time. 19:19 But notice what the thing about cosmic time, 19:22 its only one dimension and time cannot be stopped or reversed. 19:27 That's the ideal property of time 19:30 you want for a universe 19:31 where people are still struggling with sin and evil 19:36 and God has actually used that cosmic time 19:38 to bring about the end of all evil and suffering. 19:42 And will enter into a new creation 19:44 where we'll be delivered from the restrictions of cosmic time. 19:47 When do you think this great creation event took place? 19:51 We are talking about the creation 19:54 of all the-- all the cosmos? 19:57 How long ago? 19:58 Well, in our cosmic time 20:01 that would measure to be 13.8 billion years ago. 20:05 13.79. Yeah, all right. 20:08 Plus or minus .05. 20:13 Fazale, what is your concept of this God? 20:16 He must be an awesome God, 20:19 he must be, He must be a big God. 20:21 We know, typically the conception of the God 20:24 of the Bible was that He is all powerful, 20:26 all knowing and all good. And all wise. 20:29 All wise, He is eternal and as you begin to look at 20:32 what we're learning about the cosmos, 20:34 we are learning about the structure of life 20:37 at its most basic level. 20:38 You just get a-- a glimpse as to the knowledge 20:43 and the wisdom and the power and the glory of that Creator. 20:47 The creation is only just giving us 20:49 a taste of God's grandeur and God's glory. 20:53 He must be a huge massive person, 20:58 I'm not talking about physical form, 21:00 but we are talking about a universe 21:03 that's 13.8 billion years old. 21:08 Often, Christians have had the idea of a God 21:10 who made the universe a few thousand years ago. 21:14 But this opens up a completely new field, doesn't it? 21:17 It expands our minds to realize that this God 21:21 is such a huge and a big God 21:25 and as you said He is all goodness. 21:28 It will be awful if we woke up one day 21:30 and find that this is not going to happen 21:32 but imagine if God was-- was an awful person. 21:36 He is cruel and malicious. 21:38 Or there's something about the universe that tells us 21:40 that we human beings must have extremely high value 21:44 mean the very fact that He had--He made a universe 21:47 and so incredibly large and so old tells us, 21:51 look at the resources He put into effect 21:54 in order to make our existence possible. 21:57 And astronomers have discovered 21:58 they have gave the laws of physics that God choose, 22:01 it's impossible to bring human beings 22:04 upon the cosmic scene in less than 13.8 billion years. 22:09 But the window of time in which we can exist 22:11 in a civilized state can't be longer than 40,000 years. 22:16 It's which called the entropic principle inequality. 22:19 So it's a fine tuning that is beyond our comprehension. 22:26 The universe was made long, long time ago 22:30 and was made in such a way and so finely tuned. 22:35 Put me right if I'm wrong. 22:37 It was finely tuned for God to make the human race. Right. 22:41 Now, describe to me because I want the audience 22:45 to get a concept of the vastness of this universe. 22:49 Briefly tell me about black holes 22:52 and dark energy and dark matter. 22:55 Now, dark matter and dark energy, 22:57 these are relatively new concepts. 23:00 But tell me a little bit about these things? 23:03 Okay, well, stars and galaxies we see 23:05 make up about a quarter percent of the universe. 23:08 And then in addition to that 23:10 we got what's called ordinary dark matter. 23:13 There will be matter made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. 23:16 It's so disperse that they don't really emit any light 23:20 but more than 90 percent 23:22 of all the ordinary matter is called dark. 23:25 And so when we look at pictures from NASA 23:31 and from other astronomical societies. 23:35 We see these incredible galaxies. 23:38 The word is awesome, it's incomprehensible, 23:42 it's so glorious but that's, that's less than one percent 23:46 of what is out there because of the dark stuff. 23:50 Well, it takes a halo of ordinary dark matter 23:53 surrounding our Milky Way galaxy 23:56 to help stabilize the spiral structure 23:59 and beyond that you need a halo of exotic dark matter. 24:02 Now, there's six times as much exotic matter 24:05 as there is ordinary matter. 24:06 What I mean by exotic matter 24:08 is matter made up of fundamental particles 24:11 that do not interact well with photons. 24:15 Protons, neutrons and electrons do the exotic stuff doesn't. 24:19 But it takes that exotic stuff 24:21 to really make possible the kind of spiral galaxy 24:25 where advanced life can possibly exist. 24:27 So our family celebrates Thanksgiving, 24:30 we thank God for the exotic dark matter. 24:33 Because without that we wouldn't be 24:34 able to enjoy our dinner. 24:39 You have been studying astronomy for so long 24:41 and you have been studying biology for so long. 24:45 I'm impressed by your integrity 24:48 and your honesty in your scholarship 24:50 and it's a privilege for us to have you here today. 24:57 What do you think about when you think about God, Hugh? 25:00 What is God like to you? 25:03 Well, God is a being that's created this whole universe. 25:06 He created me, He created me for a purpose. 25:10 I'm not just here to live. 25:12 You know, God gave me attributes that tells me 25:15 and to use that to satisfy God's demands upon my life 25:19 and that this universe isn't the end all. No. 25:23 Absolutely, I say amen to this but if you were to meet God. 25:30 What would He be like do you think? 25:32 Well, we are told in the Bible that He is not physical, 25:36 He is spiritual. Of course. 25:37 So He doesn't have a body 25:40 but He also has given us the spirit 25:42 because we have a spirit, we can relate spirit to spirit. 25:46 So we are promised that when this physical life is over, 25:50 we are gonna have a relationship with the spiritual being. 25:53 Can we have a relationship with Him now? 25:55 Yes, our spirit can relate to His spirit right here 25:58 and now and there's proof of that. 26:00 This what got to me when I gave my life to Christ. 26:03 There is a promise in the Bible that that will set 26:06 and affect the Holy Spirit giving you the desire 26:09 and the power to live the Christian life. 26:12 And you've seen that happening in my own life. 26:14 I'm seeing how God was bringing people into my life 26:17 in supernatural ways gives me added evidence 26:21 in addition to what I see in the universe 26:23 that God is alive, 26:25 He is a personal being and He cares very deeply about me. 26:28 And is it not true to say, Faz, 26:31 that if you want to see God 26:33 and we can't comprehend His greatness. 26:35 When we talk about the stars and everything is beyond us, 26:39 but we can somewhat comprehend Jesus, 26:42 because God became a man in the person of Jesus 26:46 and Jesus said "He that has seen Me has seen the Father." 26:51 And He was a pretty nice person, wasn't He? 26:54 He was kind, He was gracious, 26:57 He was forgiving, He was a marvelous person. 27:00 And God in Christ created all of the universe 27:06 and all of the cells everything 27:09 and it's no wonder they wrote that hymn, 27:12 "How great thou art." 27:14 Because He certainly is a wonderful God 27:17 and He wants us to know Him. 27:20 And I want you to write to me or write to my friends here today, 27:25 Dr. Rana or Dr. Ross. 27:28 Write to me at the Carter Report PO Box 1900, 27:31 Thousand Oaks, California 91358. 27:34 And please write to Reasons to Believe 27:37 if you want to ask questions concerning the purpose 27:41 and the greatness of the universe. 27:44 It's been wonderful having you with us right now 27:48 and we will be back and we will be talking to you more 27:51 about these marvelous things about the stars. |
Revised 2014-12-17