Participants: Pr. John Carter (Host), Fazale Rana, Hugh Ross
Series Code: CR
Program Code: CR001316
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00:08 From Arcadia, California, the Carter Report presents
00:11 "The Living Word" around the world. 00:18 Today we are talking to two eminent scientists 00:21 Dr. Hugh Ross and Dr. Fazale Rana 00:24 from Reasons to Believe 00:26 an organization here in Southern California. 00:29 We are going to talk today about evidence 00:32 for the great creator God. 00:34 Are we simply the product of time 00:37 plus matter plus chance? 00:40 Join us today and welcome. 00:46 We believe in the public proclamation 00:48 of all the mighty truths of God's saving 00:51 and transforming Word. 00:53 Around the world, in Russia, Ukraine, India, Africa, 00:56 the Philippines, Australia, America and the Isle of the Sea. 01:01 Millions have been powerfully touched 01:03 by the Spirit of God 01:04 as the true gospel has been proclaimed. 01:07 Please be a part of the Carter Report team 01:09 by praying, giving, and when God calls by going. 01:12 Please write today to PO Box 1900, 01:15 Thousand Oaks, California, 01:19 or to PO Box 861, Terrigal, NSW 2260, Australia. 01:26 Your gift will light a candle in a dark place. 01:29 Your gift will bring the Gospel of Christ to a lost soul. 01:32 Please write today. 01:47 I have two special guests here today 01:49 and you are going to enjoy what they got to say. 01:53 Dr. Ross, glad to have you with us today. 01:55 It's always a privilege. 01:57 Dr. Rana, its a privilege and a pleasure 02:00 to have both of you here today. 02:01 Thank you. 02:02 And today we are going to talk about 02:04 "Footprints in the sand, 02:05 evidence for the great creator God" 02:08 and we are glad to have you with us. 02:10 I want to talk about Darwin. 02:13 Darwin talked about the transitional life forms. 02:19 I think he used the term 02:21 if my memory is working well today 02:24 in his book "Origin of Species" 02:25 I think he spoke about the emerge 02:27 or the discovery of a innumerable. 02:31 I think that was the word innumerable. 02:33 That's right. 02:35 Missing links that would be found 02:38 because of those missing links were not found. 02:42 If they didn't exist it would mean 02:44 that the whole idea of evolution was some how fatally flowed. 02:53 Have they found them? No, they haven't. 02:56 You know, it's interesting 02:58 Darwin when he wrote, the Origin of Species 03:00 actually devoted a couple of chapters 03:03 to objections to his theory 03:05 or he raised objections to his own theory. 03:08 So he was pretty honest as a scientist. 03:11 He was groping for light, wasn't he? 03:13 He was and he pointed out that the fossil record 03:17 at known in his day just simply didn't match 03:20 what you would expect if his theory was valid. 03:22 As you said, he expected innumerable transitional forms. 03:26 But he said they are going to be found, 03:28 we haven't found them yet 03:29 because we haven't had enough time. Right. 03:32 The fossil records is incomplete 03:33 which was a legitimate rational in his day 03:37 because paleontology what's in its infancy. Yes. 03:41 But here we are a 150 plus years later. 03:43 Yes, yes and on time. 03:44 And fossil records still looks the same 03:46 as it did in Darwin's day. 03:48 An absence or near absence of anything 03:50 that could be considered genuinely a transitional form 03:53 and we see sudden appearances. 03:55 Every time there is innovation in life's history 03:58 it happens explosively without any kind of 04:01 evolutionary history preceding it. 04:03 And so we see sudden appearances 04:05 and absence of evolutionary change. 04:07 The patter of the fossil record doesn't match 04:10 Darwin's expectations. Amazing. 04:13 And Dr. Ross, I'm gonna read you a statement 04:15 and I would like you to comment on it. 04:16 This is from Dr. Ian Tattersall, 04:19 the curator of Human Evolution 04:21 at the American Museum of Natural Histories. 04:24 He says, if the transformational notion were accurate, 04:28 histories of continuity should clearly show up 04:31 in the structures of the paleontological record. 04:36 And if the truth be told the fossils themselves 04:39 had never really born out this expectation. 04:44 Indeed, Darwin himself had been well aware 04:46 that the record was right with discontinuities. 04:52 He had however explained way this hope 04:54 would affect with now familiar claim 04:57 that the expected intermediaries 05:00 had simply not yet been discovered. 05:03 In Darwin's day, with a much more 05:06 limited record than we have now 05:08 this was at least attainable position. 05:12 But it's-- the doctor here has said 05:14 we are a 150 years down the road. 05:17 But well, over a hundred years 05:18 and many millions of fossils 05:20 later the accentual picture has not changed at all 05:25 quoted from his book "The Monkey in the Mirror." 05:29 It's a good title isn't it? Would you comment on that? 05:34 Well, we would now have an understanding 05:36 why the fossil record looks that way. 05:39 Thanks to astronomy 05:40 we realize there will be frequent interruptions of life 05:44 here on planet earth. 05:45 We call them mass extinction events or supernova explodes 05:49 or a meteor collides with the earth 05:50 or some there's some kind of climate catastrophe 05:53 that's initiated by an astronomical event. 05:56 What we see in the fossil record 05:57 every mass extinction event has followed 06:00 by a mass speciation event 06:02 and the mass speciation event happens quickly 06:05 after the mass extinction event 06:07 and also happens where the species of life show up 06:10 on the terrestrial scene with optimized ecologies. 06:14 There is no developmental time in the optimization of ecology 06:18 its there right away 06:20 and it's exactly what you would expect 06:22 from the creator God of the Bible 06:24 that tells us in Psalm 104, 06:26 it's property of all light to die off 06:28 but God recreates and renews the face of the earth 06:32 and from an astronomer's prospective 06:35 that's exactly what we would expect. 06:37 So now, from the view point of a biologist 06:43 had you see all of this working together? 06:47 Now the evolutionary process 06:50 as we all know is that you go back to non-life 06:54 and then over billions of years 06:57 you have the simple becoming the complex. 07:03 How do you feel yourself about the-- 07:05 the theory of Darwinian or Neo Darwinian theory? 07:10 Well, I'm highly skeptical of the evolutionary paradigm. 07:13 The idea that life can come from non-life 07:17 that life can create itself if you will. 07:19 I'm highly skeptical of the idea 07:21 that once you have life present on the planet 07:24 that one major group can generate another major group 07:28 that innovation is possible for this evolutionary mechanism. 07:33 It doesn't mean that there is no evolution at all. 07:36 There is a phenomenon called Microevolution 07:38 where species adapt to the environment. 07:41 All Christians believe in. 07:42 Right, and so we are not rejecting this idea 07:46 that there is limited evolution 07:48 but to say that evolution can explain 07:50 the origin of life or the history of life on earth 07:52 I'm highly skeptical of that idea. 07:54 Yes, yes, because the evidence doesn't seem to point to it. 07:57 Yeah, my skepticism is driven by the science 08:00 not my commitment towards scripture says. No, no. 08:04 Didn't Darwin made some other interesting comments. 08:08 He pounded the problem 08:10 of the trust worthiness of the human mind. 08:13 Now his argument basically was this, 08:16 if this thing between our ears is the product of blind chance. 08:22 If we are the product of time plus matter plus chance 08:27 then how can we trust it? 08:29 I think Darwin again was very honest 08:33 about the potential objections to his theory 08:36 and the problems with theory and this to me is, 08:39 is what is self refuting if you know about Darwinism. 08:44 In that you brought that point up 08:46 is that if our mind evolved 08:49 then our mind is not about discovering truth 08:51 or what's real about the world. 08:52 It's simply giving us some kind of flame work 08:56 that allows us to survive. 08:58 So what we learn may not be true 09:00 or just may be suitable in that for us to survive. 09:04 If that's the case then how do we know 09:06 that Darwin's theory is valid? Of course. 09:09 How do we know that anything is valid? 09:10 How can you trust anything? 09:11 It completely undermines the capacity of human beings 09:14 to have the ability to discover truth. 09:18 So if a person is going to cling to evolution 09:22 he is got to be prepared to look at this terrible doubt 09:27 and this terrible doubt throws 09:28 everything in doubt, doesn't it? It does. 09:31 If you believe that things came from nothing. 09:33 And this is the power of the Christian faith 09:36 is that because we take what scripture tells us 09:40 and we are made in God's image 09:42 it means that we have this capacity 09:45 coming from a Creator who cannot lie. 09:48 He had this capacity to discover that which is true 09:51 and that we can be confident that our conclusions have truth 09:54 if we have done our homework appropriately. 09:57 And this is very different again 09:58 then in evolutionary framework or an atheistic framework 10:02 and in fact this is what makes 10:04 science itself possible ironically 10:06 is to believe that we have the facilities to discover 10:09 that which is true about the universe. 10:12 And so in a sense 10:13 Darwin is not only undermining his own theory, 10:16 he is undermining science itself. 10:18 I have a statement here from the great professor Leakey. 10:22 He said, "If pressed about man's ancestry, 10:27 I would have to unequivocally say 10:29 that all we have is a huge question mark. 10:32 To date, there has been found nothing to truthfully purport 10:38 as a transitional species to man, including Lucy. 10:44 If further pressed, I would have to state that 10:46 there is more evidence to suggest 10:49 an abrupt arrival of man 10:52 rather than a gradual process of evolution." 10:58 So the great Leakey who found our so called 11:02 "Human Ancestor Lucy" in Africa 11:07 he says when I say that she was our originator 11:12 or she was one of our common ancestors. 11:15 He says I was wrong and though 11:20 he said the big problem is now for us 11:22 is at that the human race it appears arrived suddenly. 11:27 The fact of the matter is he is right. He is right. 11:31 I mean when you look at the fossil record 11:33 there's clearly a fossil record 11:35 and these creatures are called Hominidaes 11:37 but nobody knows how the Hominidaes 11:40 relate to each other in revolutionary sense 11:43 or which them could be 11:44 part of the human evolutionary linage. 11:47 In fact many of the key cast of characters 11:50 that are presented to us in biology textbooks 11:53 when it comes to human evolution, 11:55 Neanderthal, Homo-erectus, Homo-habilis, 11:58 Lucy the Taung child and the list goes on 12:01 and on and on are all considered 12:03 to be evolutionary side branches 12:05 and dead ends and are no longer considered 12:07 to be part of the human path way. 12:09 And so nobody can tell you how human evolution happened. 12:14 So why would we think that had happened 12:16 if we don't know how it happened? 12:17 It makes you think 12:19 that this book just might be true. 12:22 And when we comeback 12:23 I'm going to ask you the question, 12:25 was there an Adam and was there an Eve? 12:31 And we will be back after this message. 12:37 The Carter report is a self supporting ministry 12:40 with the global mission. 12:42 We believe that the most important thing 12:44 that we can do in this tremendous hour 12:47 is to tell people about the Lord Jesus Christ 12:50 because Jesus said, 12:51 "I am the way, the truth and the life." 12:55 We do not believe that this is business as usual. 12:59 We believe that we are living in the closing hours, 13:02 in the history of this world. 13:04 Bless your heart, friend. 13:05 Look at the signs that are being fulfilled almost every day. 13:09 The signs of the times are shouting at us, 13:12 and they're saying, "Jesus is coming soon." 13:16 I want you to be my partner in global mission. 13:19 I want you to be my partner 13:21 in helping to tell the world about the coming of Jesus. 13:24 I want you to be my partner in the preaching 13:28 of the distinctive truths of the Three Angels' messages. 13:32 Please check us out 13:35 at the New Carter Report website, cartereport.org. 13:40 We have a special section whereby you can ask questions 13:44 and I will give you the answers 13:46 from the living word of the living God. 13:50 That is the cartereport.org. 13:55 My friend, we want you to join us in the mission 13:58 to preach the gospel in China, 14:01 in India, in Australia, in Africa, 14:05 in the United States of America. 14:07 Wherever people are lost 14:09 and wherever people need to hear 14:12 the good news that Jesus saves. 14:16 Please check us out the new Carter Report 14:18 website cartereport.org. 14:22 I want to hear from you today. 14:39 Welcome back to the program. 14:40 We are talking about the origin of the human race, 14:44 evidence for the Creator. 14:46 My guests are Dr. Hugh Ross and Dr. Fazale Rana. 14:51 Thank you for joining us today. 14:53 Thank you for having us. 14:54 Was there an Adam and Eve? 14:57 The Bible says, but we are talking-- 14:59 trying to find evidence today 15:02 to say to people, look there is incredible evidence 15:06 in the scientific world while we can trust the Bible. 15:09 Was there an Adam and Eve? 15:11 This is something that is absolutely mind boggling 15:15 that evolutionary biologists who are trying to explain 15:18 the origin of humanity through evolutionary means 15:22 have unwittingly uncovered evidence 15:25 for the historicity of Adam and Eve 15:27 is being the progenitors of all humanity. 15:30 And what the scientists are doing is 15:32 they are looking at genetic variability of people 15:35 around the world. 15:36 And from that genetic variability 15:38 you can infer be in for the very early history of humanity 15:42 and it looks as if humanity had a recent origin 15:46 in a single location close to where we think 15:48 the Garden of Eden would have been. 15:49 Who believes this? 15:51 This is-- this is the scientific data. 15:54 So whether or what is an evolutionary biologist 15:56 or what have you this is what the data says. 16:00 Humanity originates recently 16:02 a single location close to where we think 16:04 the Garden of Eden would have been 16:06 from the very small population of individuals 16:09 and using a special type of genetic marker 16:12 called Mitochondrial DNA. 16:14 You can literally trace the origin of every person 16:16 on this planet back to a single sequence of DNA 16:21 which is called Mitochondrial Eve 16:23 in the scientific literature. 16:25 And the same thing is true for like chromosomal DNA 16:28 which reflects the paternal lineage of humanity 16:32 every man on the planet can trace an origin back 16:35 to a single ancestor sequence of Y-chromosomal DNA 16:39 called Y-chromosomal Adam 16:41 which I would take as the biblical Adam 16:43 and the biblical Eve 16:44 that there is scientific evidence 16:46 for a recent origin or humanity from a prime modular earth. 16:49 So there is solid scientific reasons 16:53 why we can believe? 16:54 Well, a scientific literature is now compelled 16:57 to use biblical terminology to describe the discoveries. 17:00 This sort of blows the mind, doesn't it? 17:02 Yes, referred to as a Garden of Eden hypothesis 17:05 and they talk about these Y chromosome Adam 17:07 and Mitochondrial DNA Eve 17:10 and they are talking about dates 17:11 that are consistent but the biblical date 17:13 for the origin of the Adam and Eve. 17:15 Is truth discovered in a vacuum? 17:20 No, people have philosophical presuppositions 17:24 they are bringing for the table. 17:25 All the time. People had life experiences. 17:28 I find many people who are atheists 17:31 using science as an intellectual excuse 17:35 to reject the faith but there's other issues at play 17:38 often time's they are angry at God 17:41 or they are angry at Christians or Christianity 17:44 they have been hurt by Christians 17:46 or they have been abused by Christians. 17:48 Yeah, abused by some pedophile in the church. 17:52 Therefore they say God doesn't exist. 17:55 I would argue that the passion of the atheists argues for God 17:59 because if there really is no God 18:01 they should be treating the existence of God 18:03 like they were the tooth fairy. 18:04 Yes, of course. 18:05 But the fact that there is so passionate 18:07 against the existence of God tells me 18:10 they believe He exists but they don't like Him. 18:12 So truth is not discovered in a vacuum 18:16 is it not true that the great Darwin 18:20 basically went down the road to unbelief 18:24 because of the death of his daughter. Yeah. 18:28 He was in an Anglican family, you know, 18:32 the Church of England and there were sometime 18:35 when he was even very much interested in theology. 18:39 He studied to be minister. 18:41 Yes, to be an Anglican priest but he prayed honestly 18:46 that his daughter would be okay. 18:48 But she wasn't okay 18:50 and this lead to the terrible doubt 18:52 what can God be like if my daughter dies. 18:58 And so, I have discovered in my experience 19:01 as a pastor for many, many years now 19:04 that truth is not done in a vacuum. 19:09 People reach theological ideas as well 19:12 as well as scientific ideas 19:14 because of what's happen to them, 19:16 because of their background. 19:18 And we were talking during the break about a scientist 19:22 who shall remain anonymous who was abused in his church 19:29 by a pedophile and since that time 19:32 his thinking has been beyond being agonistic 19:37 but a militant atheistic and when ever he talks, 19:42 he talks about the bad things that Christians have done. 19:45 He doesn't talk about the bad things 19:46 that atheists have done. 19:48 That makes you think that a lot of his thinking 19:52 he takes the facts that you and I talk about 19:55 but he turns them 19:59 to somehow fit in with the hurt that he has gone through. 20:05 Have you found this? 20:06 Yeah, that's true and along those lines 20:09 when you make an argument for design 20:11 many times people will point out 20:13 what they claim to be bad designs in literature 20:16 and try to use this as a way to undermine the design argument 20:21 and but in a sense its kind of a an embodiment 20:24 of this very issue that we are talking about 20:27 is that people see God 20:30 as some how having disappointed him 20:33 and they see bad things as a possess to God's glory 20:36 when you look at this nature. 20:37 So there is a lot of anger there. 20:38 Yes. And sometimes-- 20:40 There's also the opportunity to put it to the test. 20:42 They are saying hey, this is a bad design in nature 20:45 let's study at more depth. 20:47 Every time we have done and a scientist 20:49 who we thought was a bad designed 20:51 turned into a very elegant design. 20:53 It's a great way to learn things 20:55 you don't already know. 20:56 And so again let's put our atheistic belief 20:59 to the test and see. 21:01 If your atheism is right and more scientific research 21:04 will give you more evidence for your belief. 21:06 But if the Christian view is right, 21:08 more understanding is gonna increase 21:10 the evidence for the Christian faith. 21:12 So let's get back, tell me more as a biologist 21:16 tell me more about evidence for the human race. 21:21 Now this sort of captures my imagination 21:24 I'm astounded that the Bible says 21:28 the human race appeared suddenly upon the human sea. 21:33 Wasn't along drown out evolutionary process? 21:37 They came in a certain place 21:39 that was called the Garden of Eden 21:40 and we can some what get an idea of where that is. 21:45 They didn't appear as human beings 21:49 seven billion, million years ago. 21:52 They certainly were not related to Lucy. 21:56 Give me more evidence 21:57 that there was an abrupt beginning for the human race? 22:01 Well, another way to think about this 22:04 has to do with the concept of the image of God. 22:07 You know, we are made in God's image 22:09 and we are uniquely made in God's image 22:10 according to scripture. 22:12 And what's interesting is 22:13 when humans show up on the scene there is what's called 22:16 the socio-cultural big bang the human revolution 22:19 the great leap forward these are different ways 22:21 it's described where suddenly you have these creatures 22:25 that are behaving unlike anything else 22:26 that is ever existed on the planet 22:28 including Neanderthals, including Lucy, 22:31 Homo-erectus and Homo-habilis. 22:34 You had creature capable of symbolism, 22:38 creatures capable of making art in music, language, 22:42 advanced sophisticated societies emerge. 22:46 This is evidence I believe that human beings bear God's image 22:50 in the fact that it shows up suddenly 22:52 and coincidentally with humans. 22:54 Again its consentience with what you would expect from scripture. 22:58 Even evolutionary biologist studying human origins 23:02 acknowledge that humans seem to stand distinct 23:06 that were unique in these special ways 23:09 that I think finds explanation 23:11 in what the biblical text tells us. 23:13 And so we have taken quite a journey. 23:16 We have gone from astronomy down to the cell 23:20 out in the stars we see amazing balance complexity 23:27 the odds if it all happening one in so many trillions. 23:32 We talked about the complexity of the single cell. 23:35 The utter impossibility of a single cell making itself. 23:42 There seems to be an overwhelming evidence 23:45 that we should believe in God and believe in the Bible. 23:49 And you men do, don't you? Yes, we do. 23:52 And you believe in the Creator and you trust in God. 23:54 How do you explain the genetics similarity 23:56 between humans and chimpanzees? 23:59 Well I think the Bible gives us a clue. 24:03 It tells us that Adam was made from the dust of the earth 24:06 and that God breathe the of life into him. 24:08 Genesis 2:19 says, the animals were made 24:11 from the dust of the earth as well and so that tells us 24:14 that we are made out of the same stuff as the other creature. 24:18 So you would expect there to be biological similarities. 24:21 There have to be. 24:22 But what's also interesting is it also tells us 24:24 that humans uniquely received the divine breath. 24:28 I think that our mission is intentional 24:30 we are made in God's image. 24:32 And so what distinguishes us from other creatures 24:34 isn't our biology but rather it's our spiritual make up 24:40 the fact that we bear God's image. 24:41 And we have the capacity to worship. 24:44 Yeah, and so the genetic similarity 24:45 just simply reflects the fact 24:47 we are made out of same building blocks. 24:49 Now what I have discovered is this, 24:52 that the chance of life 24:54 and I'm talking from the view point of evolutionist 24:58 which I'm not but an evolutionist says, 25:00 that life is got to arrive and get going and thrive 25:07 in a very short period of time on this planet. 25:10 Even if its hundred million years 25:12 in the evolutionary cycle. 25:14 That's not even a watch in the night, 25:16 it's so very quick isn't it 25:20 and so you have these arguments from the evolutionists 25:24 but and because of those arguments 25:27 there is a new theory that we've talked about before 25:31 it's called Transpermia, is that right? 25:34 What is that mean? Yeah it's Panspermia. 25:36 Oh, Panspermia. 25:37 Yeah, it's the idea of-- Of attitude. 25:40 Well, it's Tanspermia in the sense of their saying 25:42 that there is dust that's come to us 25:45 from other planets and embedded in that dust 25:48 are either bacteria or the crucial building blocks 25:51 like the sugars and the DNA and the RNA. 25:54 Is this not an argument of desperation? 25:57 It is an argument of desperation, 25:59 it is an argument that's basically been refuted 26:01 in the scientific literature 26:03 because we know can determine 26:05 number one that dust cannot travel across in just our space 26:09 although being so thoroughly destroyed 26:11 as to be useless in the origin of light paradigm 26:14 but it's basically showing that one 26:16 from a naturalistic perspective, 26:18 we can't explain the origin of life on the earth, 26:21 we can't explain in any solar system bodies, 26:24 it can't come from another planetary system, 26:27 it can't come from cosmic dust. 26:30 Yeah, we are at an origin of life research conference 26:32 where a gentleman came to the microphone 26:35 and said we rule that all possible explanations 26:38 the origin of life except one alien came here in spaceships 26:42 and brought life here to planet earth 26:44 3.8 billion years ago. 26:46 And these people laugh at Christians. 26:47 Pardon me. They laugh at Christians. 26:50 They do but we are kind of at that conference saying, 26:53 I said to Fazale he is getting close to right answer. 26:56 Yes, I know. 26:57 There came alien it is intelligent 26:58 but it's a being from beyond matter, energy, space and time. 27:02 Yeah, so can we agree today 27:06 and I'm sure we do that we can trust the Bible? Yes. 27:12 And we can trust in God 27:13 because He made us in His own image 27:16 and the great truths of the Bible are in harmony 27:20 with the best discoveries of science 27:23 whether it is in biology that you rightly represent 27:28 or in astronomy that you rightly represent. 27:33 And so we would have a message 27:34 to the people watching today whether they are young or old, 27:38 whether they go to university they don't go to university 27:42 you can believe in God and you can believe in the Bible. 27:49 There are--there's a million reasons 27:52 why you can believe 27:54 and the God who made you loves you 27:57 and He gave His son Jesus to die for you. 28:01 Please write to me John Carter, 28:03 PO Box 1900, you see it on the screen, 28:06 see the address in Australia 28:08 also feel free to contact these eminent scientists 28:14 at Reasons to Believe 28:16 and their address is 818 South Oak Park road, 28:22 Covina, California 91724. 28:26 Thank you for joining us today 28:28 and until next time, God bless you. |
Revised 2014-12-17