Carter Report, The

Is Liberty Threatened in America, Part 2

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Pr. John Carter

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Series Code: CR

Program Code: CR001413


00:07 From Arcadia, California, the Carter Report presents
00:10 The Living Word around the world.
00:17 Hello friend, my name is John Carter.
00:20 I'm the president of the Carter Report.
00:22 And I'm so glad that you joined us today
00:25 for this animated discussion on religious liberty.
00:30 My special guest is Alan Reinach.
00:33 You'll be glad you joined us today.
00:40 I wish you'd come with me
00:43 to a land of more than a billion souls
00:48 all in need of hearing the gospel of Christ.
00:50 Did you know this my friend,
00:53 it is the duty of the Christian
00:56 to take the gospel of Christ to our lost world?
01:00 And the lost world I'm talking about right now is India,
01:05 land of millions and millions are pagan god's
01:10 but more than a billion lost souls.
01:15 India cries out for God.
01:18 We are now back on India TV
01:21 by broadcasting on primetime in India.
01:24 We need your prayers, we need your support.
01:28 Is it easy in India? No.
01:30 It's the hardest place we've ever worked.
01:33 Harder than Russian? Harder than Russian.
01:36 Harder than America? Harder than America.
01:38 Harder than Australia? Harder than Australia.
01:41 Because it is a land that's given over
01:43 almost totally to demonism.
01:47 Now I could tell you about those demons.
01:49 I could tell you about the false gods,
01:51 but I want to tell you today
01:52 is about the true God and the true God who told us,
01:55 go into all the world
01:57 and preach the gospel to every creature.
01:59 We're back in India.
02:02 Yes, we're back in India
02:03 and by the grace of God we're back in India to stay.
02:07 We want you to come with us.
02:08 We want you to pray for India.
02:10 We want you to give for India and do it today.
02:14 Please write to me,
02:15 John Carter, P.O. Box 1900,
02:17 Thousand Oaks, CA 91358.
02:19 Write to me at Terrigal, Australia,
02:21 email me, contact me and say
02:24 "yes, I'm going to stand with you
02:26 in the preaching of the gospel to the lost souls of India."
02:30 Thank you in Jesus name and God bless you.
02:41 Alan, we're honored and delighted
02:43 to have you here today
02:45 and we're glad that you joined the Carter Report
02:47 for this animated discussion on religious liberty.
02:51 The privilege is mine, John.
02:52 Glad to be with you.
02:54 Alan, what is the most important,
02:57 the individual or the state?
03:00 Here in America, we have always believed
03:04 that it's the individual.
03:05 Amen.
03:06 Is it true today?
03:08 No, sorry to say we live in the national security state.
03:14 Everything has changed, the individual,
03:16 I mean its, look-
03:18 Do you think Americans know about this?
03:20 No.
03:22 If you are in China and you're in a country
03:26 where you're trying to hold together
03:27 a society of 1.3 billion people,
03:31 I can understand where you're looking
03:33 at keeping the whole thing together
03:36 is more important than each individual.
03:39 But the whole premise of the United States
03:42 has a Protestant foundation.
03:45 And you know the Protestant genius
03:48 was to rediscover a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
03:52 That Christ died for each one
03:54 and wants to have a relationship with you
03:56 and that you can have our relationship with God
04:00 through faith in Jesus Christ.
04:02 You can read the Bible for yourself
04:04 out of the revolution
04:06 that was the Protestant Reformation
04:08 we discovered that the individual
04:10 has real significance,
04:12 not just the community of the church
04:15 or the community of the state
04:17 and out of that when Protestant's came to America
04:21 we have our constitution and Bill of Rights
04:24 designed to reverse the idea
04:27 that you know the king has divine rights.
04:30 And he rules over the people,
04:32 now the people are sovereign.
04:35 Its government of by and for the people is able to-
04:38 I'm saying, I'm saying amen, amen, amen.
04:41 This is great theology and this is the genius
04:45 of the United States of America.
04:47 But you're telling me and you're an attorney
04:49 who is a professional in these areas.
04:52 You're saying, this is actually being threatened today.
04:55 Look, we'll are-
04:56 Or beyond being threatened?
04:57 We're living on borrowed Protestant cultural capital,
05:01 Protestantism, terms of its legal influence is dead.
05:05 I would suggest you that Protestantism
05:07 in its cultural and religious influences
05:09 is largely dead as well.
05:11 I think this is true.
05:13 And I say that in the sense of the emphasis
05:16 on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ,
05:19 the emphasis on the individual, we are-
05:23 Protestant America is now
05:25 very much Catholic America in this sense.
05:29 Historic Catholicism, you're standing before God
05:34 dependent upon your standing in the religious community.
05:36 Yes.
05:37 Today in America,
05:40 the state and the security of the community
05:43 is more important than any individual.
05:46 I can see what you're saying,
05:47 I can hear what you're saying,
05:48 I'm listing with both ears
05:52 but if this is so then we are really seeing
05:54 Bible prophecies being fulfilled today.
05:57 One of my favorite Bible commentators,
06:00 Ellen White observes of America and prophecy
06:04 that she will repudiate
06:06 every principle of her constitution,
06:09 both Protestant and republican,
06:12 "small r" republican principles.
06:14 Now republic means,
06:16 government of by and for the people.
06:19 A republic is a system of government
06:22 where the people are sovereign.
06:23 Today, its, its hardly,
06:26 I mean you know I take a Bill Moyers quipped that no,
06:29 I think it was Stephen Colbert who said
06:31 "well, now that corporations are people,
06:33 we finally have government of by and for the people."
06:36 Say that again.
06:38 Well, you know the Supreme Court
06:39 famously decided in the Citizens United case
06:42 that corporations are persons
06:44 who have first amendment rights.
06:46 And so the television comedian, Stephen Colbert was-
06:51 now that you know corporations are persons
06:54 we have government of by and for the people at last.
06:59 I get it.
07:02 So we're moving away from the great constitution
07:05 that made America the greatest force in the world for good.
07:08 We really are.
07:09 We have shredded wholesale,
07:11 whole portions of the constitution.
07:14 When we have SWAT teams that go in,
07:16 you know we have a militarized police force.
07:19 We have militarized drones coming to a city.
07:22 No, no, everybody wants to hear this.
07:24 Well, whether you want to hear it or not it's happening.
07:27 I want to hear it, tell it to me.
07:28 Let me have it.
07:30 Well, we have an NSA that is monitoring
07:33 far more than George Orwell ever imagined
07:37 when he wrote 1984.
07:39 We're way passed in Orwellian kind of oppressive society.
07:43 You see, I've been teaching from the Bible
07:46 for more than 50 years,
07:48 Alan and I used to preach the prophecies of the Bible
07:52 and you know those prophecies like Revelation 13,
07:55 and Revelation 13 actually describes
07:58 a coalition of church and state.
08:00 Correct.
08:01 And the setting up a totalitarian system
08:03 that'll take religious freedoms from the people.
08:05 Right.
08:06 So, can you see this happening?
08:09 It is happening, but I think that many
08:12 who even study the prophecies
08:14 they don't know what they're looking for.
08:17 Mark of the Beast religion is the dominant force
08:21 in religion in world today.
08:24 Because the kind oppressive religion
08:27 that Revelation 13 talks about
08:29 is what most people believe that God will kill you
08:33 if you don't tow the line,
08:35 "it's my way or the highway" approach
08:37 and this is true regardless
08:39 of whether your worship is you know
08:43 Islamic fundamentalism or Christian fundamentalism.
08:46 So the people who are watching this television program today
08:49 would be wise if they would wake up.
08:53 Because the vast majority of the people
08:55 I talk to are of totally oblivious
08:57 to the fulfillment of Bible prophecies
08:59 and when they see things happening
09:01 in the United States of America,
09:03 they say "so what."
09:05 So liberties go to save their securities.
09:10 I think it was Ben Franklin,
09:12 who said those who would trade eternal liberty
09:15 for temporary security deserve
09:18 neither liberty or freedom, liberty or security.
09:23 And you would say from your experience
09:25 that this is taking place today
09:28 in the United States of America.
09:29 Franklin has been so off quoted in the last decade
09:33 because we realize that this is happening.
09:36 We have created the national security state
09:39 and you know by fighting a- so called war on terrorism,
09:45 you know, I mean more Americans die on our highways.
09:49 More Americans die
09:51 because they put a smoking stick in their mouth
09:55 than die from terrorism
09:57 and yet we're giving away our freedoms
10:00 because of the fear of terrorism.
10:02 Wouldn't some people say
10:04 that what you're teaching is dangerous, it's subversive?
10:09 Well, I could be arrested by the military
10:13 and locked up for a long time because-
10:14 But, why?
10:16 I'm dangerous and subversive for questioning authority,
10:19 but my generation
10:20 was the questioning authority generation.
10:22 We're taught to do that weren't we?
10:24 Of course and doesn't the Bible teachers to do that?
10:28 Doesn't Jesus tell us to search out for the truth?
10:32 Doesn't the Bible teach us
10:33 the importance of the individual?
10:35 John-
10:37 That the individual is more important in the state.
10:39 I thought that religion teaches you
10:41 to leave your mind at home
10:43 and just believe what the Church teaches you.
10:45 Well, that's what a lot of people believe,
10:47 check you- you come to church.
10:48 Check your brain at the door.
10:50 Check your brains at the door.
10:51 You know John, I- we talked about
10:53 my own spiritual journey in another program.
10:56 I was raised as a devout secular humanist.
10:59 I was thought to use my brain to rely on reason and logic
11:04 and when I did that I came to the conclusion
11:07 that belief in Jesus was the only thing
11:09 that made sense in this world.
11:10 Absolutely, and I say amen to this.
11:13 Is torture including water boarding
11:18 ever justified to save us?
11:22 No.
11:23 Never justifies.
11:24 The short answer is no,
11:26 but I think there is so much longer answer that's needed.
11:29 There are Americans who think
11:31 and have been deceived by the propaganda
11:34 the torture can be useful.
11:36 I've had church members come to me time after time
11:40 and they've said to me
11:41 "we believe it is justified to carry out torture."
11:46 And I've said to them what about
11:48 what happened in Germany?
11:50 And they've said one lady even said to me
11:52 "if I had been living in Germany in those days,
11:55 I would have gone along with it."
11:58 Yeah, they probably would have.
12:01 You know the FBI has found
12:04 that their interrogation techniques
12:07 which do not use torture are much more effective
12:12 and the latest that's come out in the senate report
12:16 is that the early reports of great successes
12:20 with the use of torture were fabricated.
12:22 And remember this,
12:24 we believe as Protestant Christians
12:27 that the end it does not justify the means.
12:30 I mean, if you want to talk about morality,
12:32 what happened at the golden rule.
12:34 Oh, yeah, I'll torture you
12:37 'cause I don't mind if you torture me, sure.
12:40 Of course, we know that is completely false.
12:43 But the Bible teaches that we should not do evil
12:47 so that good might come.
12:49 That is the teaching of anti-Christ the idea
12:52 that the end somehow justifies the means is abhorrent
12:57 and wrong and therefore
13:01 because we see what is happening in the world today
13:03 and what is happening in America,
13:05 we see that these are fulfilling signs
13:09 a Bible prophecies.
13:10 Bible prophecies are coming to parse.
13:13 They are John, and you know
13:16 it may be that countries to evil at times
13:20 in pursuit of their national ends,
13:23 but one of the biggest problems
13:25 that I see in America's approach to torture
13:28 in the last decade is the attempt to justify it
13:32 and say that it's legal.
13:34 You know a lot of countries will break the law
13:38 and do things that they think are immoral
13:40 and follow this ends justify the means approach
13:43 but they know that they're doing things that are black.
13:46 That are immoral- They're evil.
13:48 That are illegal. Yes.
13:49 Okay, and they make those hard choices
13:52 and they hope that they don't come to light.
13:54 We're doing in the light
13:56 and we're trying to justify what cannot be justified.
13:58 But we have stopped it now.
14:01 So we say, I hope so.
14:04 I would sincerely hope and pray so,
14:06 because torture is abhorrent.
14:09 It goes against the constitution,
14:12 it goes against everything the Bible teaches.
14:15 Alan, would you agree with me
14:17 that our greatest need here in America
14:20 is returned to the faith of our fathers.
14:22 There's no question, spiritual revival
14:26 is absolutely our greatest need.
14:30 Now, we don't want you to go away
14:32 because we got more stuff coming with Alan Reinach
14:36 and its great stuff and you need to hear it
14:39 because we're talking about your religious liberty.
14:42 Now my friend, here is a magazine
14:44 that you want to get and we'll send it to you free.
14:48 It's not going to cost you anything
14:50 but please support the work of God.
14:52 You can have this magnificent magazine
14:55 that talks about many of these issues,
14:57 it is called Ebenezer.
14:59 Please write to me John Carter,
15:01 P.O. Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, CA 91358,
15:06 in Australia write to me at Terrigal,
15:08 email me, I even take emails these days,
15:12 so please write to me, stay in touch.
15:16 And we're going to be back after this break
15:18 and we're going to be talking about
15:20 some of the greatest issues that you've ever heard about
15:24 your religious liberty threatened, here in America.
15:31 Did you ever have a sense of destiny?
15:34 Did you ever feel that God has put His hand upon you
15:37 for some tremendous task, that you really got a purpose,
15:42 that God has called you for such a time as this?
15:46 I have that sense, that conviction today
15:49 because God is opening up
15:51 doors for us in Latin America
15:54 and in Latin America my good friend,
15:57 there's a revolution going on.
16:00 It's not a revolution in the streets,
16:02 it is a revolution in the hearts
16:06 of men and women.
16:09 That's why the Carter Report is going to go to El Salvador.
16:14 We're renting an outdoor stadium
16:16 with room for more then 60,000 souls,
16:21 and we're planning a baptism in the-
16:23 on the Sabbath afternoon
16:25 of more than 5,000 born-again souls
16:30 in El Salvador, in Latin America
16:34 where there's a revolution going on,
16:36 where the Holy Spirit is being poured out.
16:39 Don't you want to be a part of this great purpose,
16:45 this great task,
16:46 this God designed outreach for Latin America?
16:52 Would you please write to me John Carter,
16:54 P.O. Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, CA,
16:57 tell me I'm going to support you.
17:00 Write to me in Australia tell me
17:02 I'm going support the preaching of the gospel.
17:05 Write to me today and support the preaching
17:08 of the Word of God around the world,
17:12 but right now in Latin America,
17:15 thank you and God bless you.
17:32 Welcome back friend, to a super program,
17:34 exciting stuff we're dealing with here today
17:37 with Attorney Alan Reinach.
17:39 We're talking about religious liberty
17:41 and how your freedoms are being threatened right here
17:45 in the land of liberty
17:46 in the United States of America.
17:48 Alan, what made the USA different to those countries
17:54 that had religion in their constitutions?
17:57 For instance, what made American different
18:00 to Catholic spying under Franco,
18:05 Catholic Columbia,
18:07 Muslim Saudi Arabia, Muslim ISIS?
18:12 Very simply John,
18:14 the separation of church and state.
18:15 Tell me about it.
18:16 Well, the basic concept is simple
18:19 and it's not what a lot of Americans think.
18:22 The basic concept is religion
18:25 is not the business of government.
18:28 The government has other responsibilities
18:31 and they have no expertise in matters of faith and belief.
18:35 And so the idea is the state
18:37 stays out of the business of the church
18:39 and the church doesn't govern the state.
18:42 They have their unique spheres
18:44 that they are free to a function end.
18:46 This was the genius
18:47 of the United States of America, am I right.
18:49 And it was a principle of religious freedom.
18:52 Today too many see separation of church and state
18:55 somehow as a threat to religious freedom
18:57 but not as it was originally understood.
19:00 But the church never prospers
19:02 when the state gets involved with it.
19:04 You know, it's basically a form of socialism.
19:07 And if you think about,
19:08 you know our attitudes about welfare
19:11 and how it's sap initiative and vitality.
19:14 Which it does.
19:15 Well, when you put the church on the public dole
19:19 and have tax dollars pay for the church well,
19:22 the church is like a welfare cheat.
19:25 Now you take ISIS
19:26 they want set up a Muslim state.
19:28 Yes. We believe its evil.
19:30 What real difference is there from those Christians here
19:35 in the United States of America
19:37 who want to have a Christian American state.
19:40 Well, I certainly don't think that there are many Christians
19:45 if any here in America
19:47 who are prepared to tell nonbelievers
19:50 that they have to convert or die.
19:51 Oh, no, of course not.
19:53 I don't think that Americans who are there yet.
19:54 No, no, no, but what about
19:55 talking about a Christian state.
19:58 Well, I do think in principle
20:01 we should take a page from Saudi Arabia
20:04 and other countries like Iran
20:06 where church and state or mosque and state
20:09 are very much are working together
20:12 to realize that the freedom that we have
20:15 is because we don't give the state jurisdiction
20:19 over the church.
20:21 Alan, this is a tough one and the answers
20:23 you're giving are not good,
20:25 they're very good and I do appreciate them.
20:31 Is the US government entering into the realms a religion
20:35 when it declares itself the gay marriage,
20:39 the man having sex with man
20:42 and women having sex with women?
20:45 Is it pontificating in matters that belong to the church
20:51 or does the government have the right to tell people
20:55 what they ought to do in these things?
20:57 You know, this is a very confusing area
21:00 for many people, John.
21:01 And I think there's a difference between
21:04 the religious freedom analysis
21:07 and the moral and social policy analysis.
21:11 Let's start with this,
21:13 because we have relationships that dissolve
21:17 and financial needs, needs of children.
21:20 The state has jurisdiction over marriage.
21:23 Civil rights.
21:24 You know marriage initially began
21:26 as a holy religious institution but,
21:30 you know, you talk to people
21:32 when their relationships dissolve
21:35 somebody's got to come and decide
21:38 is somebody gonna support the other one.
21:40 How are the kids going to be supported,
21:42 who has custody of the kids?
21:44 So the state has legitimate jurisdiction
21:47 over the subjective marriage.
21:49 Now one of the problems,
21:51 when the states began to vote in the courts actually
21:57 at first began to bring in same-sex marriage
22:00 is they would spend hundreds of pages
22:03 describing the fundamental right to marry,
22:06 which nobody disagrees with.
22:07 There is a fundamental right to marry.
22:10 The problem is they never really decided
22:12 what is marriage in the first place?
22:14 And here's the crux of the thing,
22:16 in order for us to have are stable healthy marriages
22:21 as the building blocks of society
22:23 we need a culture that supports marriage.
22:26 Now our culture with no fault divorce
22:30 with the welfare society that means
22:33 that when men lose their jobs
22:36 and become unemployed the women and children
22:39 don't get support unless the men
22:41 move out of the home with the bringing
22:44 in of same-sex marriage and turning marriage
22:48 into a matter of sexual pleasure
22:51 of convenience rather than principle.
22:54 We have, as a society greatly destroyed
22:57 the culture of marriage.
22:58 So this is the secularization of society?
23:01 Yes.
23:02 So it not so much the government is it?
23:04 No. And society?
23:06 Well, government really
23:07 if you think about it the State is following suit.
23:10 It's reflecting society.
23:12 Correct.
23:15 But of course, you and I as Bible believing Christians,
23:18 we believe in the marriage
23:20 that is taught in the scriptures
23:22 between a man and a woman.
23:23 That's what marriage is.
23:25 And the State can try to redefine it
23:27 but that doesn't change the reality.
23:29 So same-sex marriage is an oxymoron?
23:31 Yes, it is.
23:32 But having said that, we love gay people,
23:36 we respect them,
23:38 and we believe they should have their civil rights.
23:41 But as Christians,
23:42 we believe that we've got some rights also.
23:45 And you know the crux of the problem,
23:47 when it comes to religious freedom
23:49 is that it's become a zero-sum game
23:51 where either the society is going to protect
23:54 the rights to the LGBT community,
23:57 Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Community
24:00 or the rights of religious freedom but not both.
24:03 And that really both,
24:05 there's now kind of a war going on
24:07 whether it's gonna be religious freedom or sexual freedom.
24:10 Yes, and so this is an indictment,
24:13 I think of our society
24:15 and I believe these things have been prophesied in the Bible.
24:18 Do you believe that Christians
24:21 and other believers Jewish believes,
24:23 Muslim believers and so forth
24:24 have the right to practice their faith
24:26 without government interference
24:29 and I asked this question because, Dr. Billy Graham,
24:32 who has been called "The Conscience American"
24:35 said a little while ago
24:37 Christians can expect to be persecuted
24:40 by their own government here in the United States.
24:42 Look, basic principle of religious freedom
24:46 is everybody has the right to their belief,
24:48 to their worship, to practice their faith.
24:51 But we also have the saying
24:53 you know my rights end
24:54 when my fist approaches your nose.
24:57 Absolutely.
24:58 The question is,
24:59 is my practice of my religion harming somebody else
25:03 and at times rights do come into conflict
25:07 and the courts have to figure out
25:09 can we protect everybody's rights and if not,
25:12 how do we resolve conflicts.
25:15 Now we're gonna run out of time,
25:17 so I'll need to get a quick answer to this question
25:21 Revelation 13 talks about a situation
25:27 that arises in the world
25:29 where church and state come together
25:32 and an image to the beast to set up
25:35 which we believe is the coalition
25:37 of church and state.
25:39 Do you believe that this could be coming soon,
25:44 is it just around the corner?
25:46 Yes, is the short answer.
25:49 I started with this illustration
25:52 from the roadrunner
25:53 that the constitutional foundations have disappeared.
25:55 It's gone, it's gone.
25:57 So the courts and our legislatures
26:01 here in America are all too willing
26:04 to see the government involved in religion.
26:08 It's just that simple.
26:10 And so we ought to be saying today
26:13 to the American people and the Australian people
26:15 and everybody else watching,
26:18 it's time for you to get back to God,
26:19 it's time for you to read the Bible,
26:21 it's time for you to stand up for the faith
26:24 that was once delivered to the saints.
26:26 Amen to that, John.
26:28 And Alan, it's been a privilege to have you with us today
26:31 and it's been a privilege to have you to my friend,
26:34 watching out there in television land.
26:37 Please write to me, would you?
26:39 Write to the Carter Report P.O. Box 1900,
26:42 Thousand Oaks, California, 91358
26:45 write to me at Terrigal in Australia or email me.
26:50 Ask for our magazine.
26:52 Hey, this is a great magazine,
26:55 it is called Ebenezer.
26:58 It is full of terrific stories.
27:01 Let me tell you some of the articles
27:03 can bad be good,
27:06 nothing too hard for God, signs of the times,
27:10 my warning from the pope,
27:12 why they buried the bishop on the sidewalk,
27:15 amazing health secrets,
27:17 miracles in a communist prison.
27:21 Friend, please write to me today,
27:24 we want you to become part of the Carter Report family,
27:28 we believe in preaching the Bible truth.
27:31 We believe in the faith
27:33 that was once delivered to the saints.
27:35 We believe in evangelism,
27:38 in taking the pure gospel of Jesus Christ
27:42 right around the world.
27:43 And so please write to me today,
27:47 please email me.
27:49 It's been a tremendous privilege
27:51 having you with us today.
27:53 We are living in tremendous days,
27:56 we're living in that time
27:58 when the Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.
28:01 And Alan, we believe that Jesus is coming soon.
28:06 Amen.
28:07 Jesus is coming soon.
28:09 Please write to me. God bless you.
28:12 It's been great having you with us.
28:14 Goodbye for now.


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Revised 2015-03-26