For Guys Only

Financial Management

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Pr. William Lee (Host), Brandon Dent, Colin King, Muta Mwenya


Series Code: FGO

Program Code: FGO000012

00:01 Welcome to "For Guys Only."
00:03 A program designed to meet the needs of the urban man.
00:06 I'm Pastor William Lee and I'm so thankful
00:08 that you've joined us for yet another broadcast.
00:11 Today, we have a very interesting topic.
00:13 Today, we're gonna talk about "Financial Management"
00:16 for the urban man.
00:17 Stay tuned as we go right into our broadcast.
00:36 Gentlemen, welcome once again to "For Guys Only."
00:40 Of course, the program that specifically targeted
00:42 to meet the needs of the urban man.
00:45 As we get started today let's just kind of briefly
00:48 introduce ourselves to our viewers all today.
00:51 I'll start with Brandon today.
00:54 Yes, my name is Brandon Dent
00:55 and I'm a retired auto executive
00:58 and I'm running my own marketing company now.
01:02 I'm just came off of a three year tour of duty
01:06 as a treasurer for local chamber organization
01:10 and I'm the financial presenter for the Lake Region Conference,
01:17 Family Life department.
01:20 All right, thank you so much Brandon.
01:22 My name is Colin King.
01:23 I'm a clinical psychologist even though I do have
01:27 a bachelor's degree in a business administration
01:31 and I have two teenagers, I'm married
01:36 and I'm pleased to be on the show once again.
01:39 All right, welcome, Dr. King.
01:41 My name is Muta Mwenya,
01:43 executive director for Elijah 3 Ministries.
01:46 It's urban youth evangelism ministry.
01:49 I'm married, I have two children
01:52 and just excited about the topic today.
01:54 All right.
01:56 As always I'm Pastor William, the pastor of the capital city
01:59 Seventh-day Adventist church in Indianapolis, Indiana,
02:02 part of the Lake Region Conference
02:03 of Seventh-day Adventist.
02:05 Married for seven wonderful years,
02:08 two children and looking for to the great move of God.
02:13 Especially as we talk today about finances.
02:17 This is a subject especially as we named it now
02:21 financial management for the urban man,
02:24 for the urban man.
02:26 So many times we don't necessarily put finances
02:30 at the very, you know,
02:31 nearly top of our to do list of our,
02:35 you know, way into be very successful at.
02:37 Sometimes we have mismanage finances, sometimes you know,
02:42 we find ourselves to be in debt but we want to--
02:45 you know our viewers say to have some hope, you know,
02:48 to be understand that as a urban man,
02:50 especially as African-American man that we can be successful
02:54 and that our money can be in order as well.
02:59 Brandon, in your introduction you mentioned
03:00 that you have been working with finances for longer time
03:05 as I'm as a retired business executive.
03:07 Look side as well, helping out in running chamber of commerce.
03:12 Well, now help us understand some of these principles
03:15 as we relate to responsible financial management.
03:18 Well, responsible is the key word.
03:21 One of the things we have to first realize is
03:24 that money is a divine trust, a divine trust.
03:29 One of my favorite writers wrote
03:31 that we must ever remember
03:32 that we will give an account in the judgment
03:35 for how we use God's resources.
03:37 So what I've found in all these areas
03:40 that I've worked where you see responsible practice
03:43 that's exactly what you see.
03:46 You see people who take money seriously,
03:49 whether its for spiritual reason or not
03:52 but they take it seriously.
03:54 They account it and they make sure
03:56 that there are--
03:57 they are accounting for its use.
04:00 So that's an important piece.
04:02 Now we talk about the urban man,
04:05 let's talk about the African-American community.
04:08 In 2010 I'll say 2010,
04:14 African-American's spend about $910 billion,
04:18 almost a trillion dollars on cell phones, electronics,
04:23 clothing, and other items
04:25 that bring no real future value.
04:29 If we were own country, if that was our GDP
04:32 we would be the 16th richest nation on the planet.
04:37 Wow.
04:38 But because we are stratified
04:41 and don't have a real unified system
04:43 of the use of our money one that brings value to our
04:48 own community then, you know, it's a nice,
04:52 it's an interesting statistic
04:53 but we are not been offending from it.
04:56 Okay. Okay.
04:57 So we have to be responsible but, you know, as you say,
05:00 you know for African-Americans that we, you know,
05:02 we will not spend all of our money on material prosperity
05:06 or material thing like cell phones,
05:08 we are not, we should, you know-- should we invest,
05:11 you know, money or-- you know, what should we really do
05:14 with the money that God has given us?
05:17 Because, you know,
05:18 money is really is a stewardship principle.
05:21 It's sound stewardship principle.
05:22 What should we do, how should we be responsible
05:24 with the resources that God has given us?
05:27 What you said, should we invest?
05:29 And I know that's a question at sometimes is hardly debated
05:32 among Christians because some see investing as gambling.
05:37 Every day of life is a gamble.
05:40 We make the best decisions each day of life that we can.
05:45 In praying and asking the Lord
05:47 to give us the best possible outcome.
05:49 And even the parable of the talents
05:53 which was a parable of money,
05:56 in that we see that God expects for us to grow the money,
06:02 the talents, the gifts that He puts in our charge.
06:07 When we, when we invest we should be careful.
06:15 There are investments that are safer than others.
06:18 We can try investing into gambling
06:21 by being very reckless,
06:22 by taking, putting money into things that have bad payoffs
06:27 but if they come through then they are high
06:30 and then there are more conservative and safe.
06:32 I have a lot of money in instruments
06:36 that have guaranteed returns,
06:38 guaranteed returns only way that they won't return
06:41 as of the entire US economy collapses
06:43 and it's possibility but,
06:46 you understand that I'm trying to be responsible
06:50 with the resources that God has put in my charge
06:54 and try to multiply them so that they can be fruitful
06:57 in the work of the gospel and all those things
07:00 that I put my hand to do for His calls.
07:02 Okay. Okay.
07:04 Dr. King, kind of give us the perspective as well
07:06 as it relates to responsible financial management.
07:09 Certainly.
07:10 We do have some African-Americans
07:14 or some blacks or some people in urban cities
07:17 who have done very well,
07:19 who have made very wise financial decisions.
07:23 So I don't want to say
07:24 that every black person is not fiscally responsible.
07:28 We have some very successful people
07:30 and I'm very happy to announce that actually.
07:33 You know, let us sort of put things in perspective thought.
07:36 In 2004, we had roughly about 24.7 percent
07:41 of African-Americans
07:42 we are living below the poverty line.
07:45 You know, average income
07:48 when compared with whites whose average income
07:51 was roughly about $54,000.
07:54 Today, you've got 15 percent of Americans
07:58 who live in below the poverty level
08:01 and now we have 27 percent of blacks
08:04 who are living below the poverty level.
08:07 So our situation has actually worsened.
08:11 And Brandon alluded to the way how we spend our money
08:17 with cell phones and gadgets and so on and so forth.
08:23 Someone quite rightly said that we borrow
08:27 or we spend money that we don't have to impress people
08:33 who don't even like us anyway.
08:36 You know, some of the decisions that we make bury us.
08:42 And for me as a rule of thumb, I think it was Brandon
08:45 who said this on a previous episode,
08:47 when you are going to make a purchase
08:50 ask yourself to question
08:52 is this an asset or is this a liability?
08:57 Is this an asset or is this a liability?
09:00 And quite often it's not an asset it's a liability.
09:05 Okay. Okay.
09:06 Just as for clarification an asset is something
09:08 that actually brings money to you
09:10 and a liability is something that takes it away from you.
09:12 Okay.
09:13 One other thing that,
09:15 if you look at the profile of the wealthy
09:18 they don't take on bad debt,
09:21 but they don't shun on debt.
09:25 They will take on debt for the purpose of purchasing
09:28 an asset that will quickly eradicate the debt
09:35 and then bring them profit.
09:37 But they think it is deplorable for one to take a loan,
09:42 take on debt to purchase a liability.
09:46 Televisions, big screen TVs don't bring money today.
09:50 So that's it, it say that's a liability.
09:51 It's a liability. Okay.
09:53 Because it cost you the money,
09:54 the money goes out in order for you to get it.
09:56 Now it sits there and it brings no money in
09:59 and makes it a liability.
10:00 Okay. But what's a asset though?
10:01 And asset would bring you money.
10:05 All right. For example rental property.
10:07 Okay.
10:08 You know, you buy some property and it appreciates in value,
10:12 that's one it brings you money and then you can rent it.
10:15 You get the monthly rents off of it.
10:17 That brings you money.
10:18 A honorable bill could be what they call a depreciating asset,
10:23 if you use it for purposes of gaining income or wealth.
10:29 Okay. Okay.
10:30 I just want to make a comment on that.
10:33 If you're making $40,000 or $50,000 a year
10:38 why in the world would you go out
10:40 and buy a brand new car for $30,000?
10:44 Why? Okay.
10:46 To boast out.
10:47 That's to be honest you know, to look good.
10:49 It's unseen. It's unseen.
10:50 It makes absolutely no sense at all.
10:53 It's unseen. Okay.
10:54 Okay, yeah.
10:55 And Muta, you know,
10:57 I know you are kind of community
10:59 where Dr. King just said that sometimes happen.
11:03 The income maybe of $40,000 but, you know,
11:06 and in your experience you may see people that do buy
11:09 a $30,000 or even a $40,000 car.
11:13 Kind of share some right on, just your experience working
11:15 in the urban community as it relates to seeing
11:18 how people are using their resources in a positive way
11:21 or even negative way.
11:25 Well, the sad thing is that sometimes you are not even
11:29 making $40,000, they are making $15,000
11:33 and still buying that $30,000 car
11:35 hoping they will able to keep up
11:37 with the payments at least.
11:38 Its not gonna happen.
11:40 Its not gonna happen, that's reality event
11:42 that's why you know,
11:44 a lot of times you are not living in homes
11:47 that are suitable because all their money
11:50 is gonna go to these liabilities
11:53 that they have trumped up.
11:55 Education is big.
11:57 I think not only for just the--
12:01 those who are living in urban cities
12:03 but young, young men, young black men like you and I,
12:07 you know, getting a good financial coach.
12:11 Getting somebody who maybe
12:13 who is a mentor at your local church.
12:15 I know, Brandon said he works with his local church.
12:18 Find somebody in your church who is experienced with this.
12:23 Ask for some advice.
12:24 Don't try to do it by yourself especially when you have
12:27 no knowledge about it.
12:29 Find somebody.
12:30 That's good. That's good.
12:31 You know, I want to be very practical
12:33 and be very real about, you know,
12:34 as I look at, you know, especially, you know,
12:36 the urban mindset, the urban you know, context is that,
12:39 you know, sometimes and Dr. King I want to,
12:42 you know, reverse what you said before but you know,
12:44 a lot of times we don't see the access, you know,
12:47 where there is a lot of money just flowing.
12:49 You know you are able to do a lot of different things.
12:51 We praise God for that full success stories
12:53 but what about for the man
12:55 that's watching us right now
12:56 and they are thinking to themselves, you know what,
12:58 I don't have money to put away.
13:00 You know, I have all these bills, I have debt,
13:02 I have this and that.
13:03 You know, what can they do
13:06 to maybe turn their situation around
13:08 so that, you know, they will be able to, you know,
13:11 keep a little bit that money and use it for as a purposes
13:14 that can build their assets.
13:17 What do you thing?
13:18 Well, the first thing you have to do
13:20 is you've got to learn
13:22 how to put together a budget, okay.
13:24 You are never going to get control of this thing
13:27 if you don't have measuring it
13:30 and that's what the budget does.
13:31 The budget, first of all identifies
13:34 what your financial obligations are
13:36 and it stacks that up against your income
13:39 and it shows you reliability to handle your bills.
13:42 A lot of people figure they can't handle their bill
13:45 and when we sit down we find out that they can
13:48 but they just never put it all on paper
13:50 and looked at it and said, okay,
13:52 I mean, this is the plan.
13:53 This is how I keep I, this is how much I will spend
13:56 each month on these items
13:57 so that every month my bills are paid,
14:00 I'm putting away a little of something,
14:02 as another will characteristic some of the wealthy
14:05 no matter what their situation is month over month.
14:08 They treat themselves like a bill.
14:10 They put something away for themselves
14:12 and they build that into their budget.
14:15 Once you have that then what you want to do is work on
14:17 getting the debt out of the picture.
14:20 Now there is a technique that is very effective,
14:22 a lot of well known financial specialists promote it
14:29 and that they might is by as the snowball method
14:33 of getting out of debt and it speeds up exponentially
14:37 in time just like the snowball grows
14:38 as you roll it down a hill.
14:40 What you do is you take all of your debt and you put it
14:43 in ascending order according to balance.
14:45 So the one with the smallest balance first,
14:47 high balance less.
14:49 Don't worry about interest rate.
14:50 Doesn't work as well if you
14:51 try to pay the highest interest rate off first.
14:54 Take all of-- expect for the first debt
14:57 and take all of those payments to minimum
15:00 but take all the money that you been paying on them,
15:03 stratifying your money across
15:05 all of these debts for having no real impact in anyone area.
15:08 Take all of that and add it to the payment of the first one.
15:11 Now you've got a pretty nice size payment on the first one
15:14 and you got a small balance.
15:16 It's gonna go away really fast.
15:18 Then you take all of that money,
15:21 add it to the minimum payment of the next one on the list,
15:24 now you've got, you know,
15:26 all the money that you were paying on the first one
15:28 which also includes the minimum.
15:31 So you bring even more money to the second item
15:34 and adding it to the money, that's with the second item.
15:36 So the payment gets much bigger
15:39 and that one gets paid off quick.
15:41 And I did scenarios where people who had 30 years lefts
15:47 on their cars were able to pay them off in ten months.
15:50 People who had ten years left on their student loans
15:56 were able to pay them off in three years.
15:59 It works and it is absolutely phenomenal.
16:02 You just continue that process
16:03 until you get the last debt paid off.
16:06 You know, Brandon is absolutely right
16:08 because if nothing changes, nothing changes.
16:14 Okay. That's so powerful.
16:18 It there's nothing changes, nothing changes.
16:21 You can continue to make the minimum payment if you want
16:24 and think that well, Brandon is crazy.
16:26 It will never work but then nothing is gonna change.
16:29 Consider this, if you have $8,000 in debt,
16:34 at an interest rate of 18 percent
16:37 which is about average and if you only make
16:40 the minimum payment it will take you 25 years
16:45 to pay off that debt and you will have paid out $24,000.
16:52 Okay. Yeah $8,000 debt.
16:55 Eighteen percent. Eighteen percent.
16:57 You make the minimum payment for five years
17:01 and you will be paying $24,000.
17:03 Wow.
17:05 So if nothing changes, nothing changes.
17:08 Got you. I got it.
17:09 That's deep. Man, I appreciate that.
17:12 Let's kind of talk about, you know,
17:13 God have a lot to say about financial management,
17:18 responsible financial management.
17:19 I mean, the Bible is replete with the example other example
17:22 where God calls us to accountability
17:24 as we raise to our finances.
17:26 Let's kind of discuss out a little bit
17:27 because again it is spiritual thing
17:30 that God really cares about us being
17:33 responsible with our money that God has given us.
17:36 So what does that Bible say about this?
17:39 Well, if you go to Proverbs 22:7
17:43 and its talking about debt here.
17:46 There it says "The rich ruleth over the poor,
17:50 and the borrower is servant to the lender."
17:55 And so what the Bible is saying
17:56 is basically debt is economic slavery.
18:00 Economic slavery and we should avoid it.
18:05 The Bible also says in John 1 and verse-- 3 John 1:2 it says,
18:11 "Beloved, I wish above all things
18:12 that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
18:14 even as thy soul prospereth."
18:17 God is not just interested in making you wealthy
18:20 for the sake of wealthy.
18:21 Okay.
18:23 If your soul does not prosper
18:24 you cannot be trusted with wealth
18:26 because wealth is not for us to just be large and in charge.
18:30 It is really for us to be God's stewards
18:33 in getting His work done.
18:35 So as your soul prospers
18:37 God can trust you with more wealth
18:39 because He knows that you will sponsor programs like
18:43 "Dare to Dream" and "For Guys Only"
18:45 and things of that nature.
18:46 Yeah. Yeah.
18:48 Getting the gospel done it takes money to do the gospel.
18:52 It takes money to plant churches.
18:55 It takes money to have dynamic youth ministries and its--
19:01 we are the ones who have to be conduits of God's blessings
19:06 to those programs if they are to get done.
19:09 That's as good. What about tithing?
19:11 You know, we hear this concept, you know,
19:13 throwing around especially an idea
19:14 that we were talking about tithe.
19:16 And we are gonna ask that tithe definitely you know,
19:19 from Genesis, you know,
19:20 and in that situation as well.
19:23 How important is tithing
19:25 and as a pastor I'm asking you all this but,
19:27 you know, how important is that concept?
19:29 You know, forget the biblical perspective of it.
19:31 Let us, let us just see
19:33 if this was not an instruction from God,
19:34 which of course it is
19:36 but let us just ignore that momentarily.
19:39 The mere act of setting aside a portion of your paycheck
19:45 to give it to someone else makes perfect sense.
19:49 What it does, it makes you now,
19:50 it makes you a more disciplined person.
19:53 It makes you, it makes you pay attention,
19:56 it makes you more responsible.
19:58 Now you add a spiritual aspect to that, God said,
20:02 this is what I want you to do.
20:04 In fact, He said, or in fact
20:06 we believe that not just tithing that is important
20:11 but also in giving a generous offering
20:15 it forces you to budget,
20:17 it forces you to be responsible.
20:20 I've never seen a person
20:22 who tithe faithfully in financial problem.
20:27 Yeah, it's interesting because those who do believe that not
20:30 paying tithe is robbery, when they go back
20:33 and read Malachi starting at verse 8
20:36 it is very clear that not paying
20:39 the offering is also robbery.
20:42 And all the people just kind of,
20:44 they see the tithe as a obligation
20:47 because the percent is spelled out.
20:49 But because there is no offerings percent,
20:52 no specific percent spelled out for offering a lot of people
20:55 think as a optional.
20:57 But God says, where in have
20:58 you robbed Me in tithe and offering.
21:01 So we need to do both in order to not be robbing God.
21:05 And of course God says prove Me.
21:08 I like it when he says that. There's a challenge.
21:10 Yeah, absolutely. He says, prove Me--
21:11 Bring it on. In order what bring in on.
21:13 Yeah, they see if had opened up
21:15 the windows of heaven and bless you.
21:17 And that's why I like, that's what I love about God
21:19 is that God does challenge.
21:21 You know, He says prove Me.
21:22 He does say and see what I do.
21:24 One of the concepts I think is
21:26 so important for us to understand
21:27 because Bible talks about us being stewards is that
21:30 we need to understand that we don't, we don't pay God.
21:33 We don't pay the church.
21:35 You know, we don't,
21:36 we don't even give to God a gift to the church
21:39 but the Bible says that you need to return to Me.
21:44 So what God is saying first
21:45 and foremost is that He was us--
21:47 He was our heart, you know.
21:49 For the Bible says that where a man's treasury is
21:53 that's where His heart will be also.
21:55 So more than, you know,
21:57 the finances that God is requiring,
21:59 God says I want your heart first
22:01 and then the finances will fall on line as well.
22:03 That's right.
22:04 And they also well, look at this text well where Malachi,
22:07 you know, spells out and God says you know,
22:10 "I will open up the windows of heaven."
22:13 I want to think about first, how many windows do you have
22:16 in your home as opposed to doors?
22:20 You know, most people just have a front door, a back door,
22:24 maybe a side door,
22:25 two or three doors in their homes.
22:27 But the Bible says that God
22:29 will open up the windows of heaven.
22:34 Now I don't have more than you know, one or two windows,
22:37 you know, in my home, I have number of windows in my home
22:39 and God says that He will pour out a blessing that there shall
22:42 now be room enough to receive.
22:44 So we know that God does not need our money.
22:46 You know, Bible says,
22:48 "God, own the cattle on a thousand hills."
22:50 You know, the God is not leasing the hill.
22:52 You know, it belongs to Him.
22:54 But it's a faith walk that God is asking us to be involved in,
22:59 to really put God to the test and see where not God
23:02 do what He says.
23:03 He will do absolutely.
23:06 I have a couple of just
23:07 experiences from returning tithe
23:10 and having that struggle because for some people,
23:13 it's a struggle.
23:16 Lord, I have to pay this bill.
23:18 I have to do this
23:19 can You spot me until next week.
23:22 Can I just use it for this
23:25 and just double up next week or what not?
23:28 And the Lord has been really kind.
23:31 I remember one time, I was in one of those struggles
23:34 and we really wanted to go to church that morning
23:36 and we just like ah--
23:38 I said, Lord, we don't really have that much gas
23:40 but I know if I hold on to this money
23:43 it will burn a hole to my pocket.
23:44 So let me return it back to You.
23:46 Okay.
23:48 So we got the family ready and I said Lord,
23:50 that gas that I have in the car is enough to get us to church,
23:52 I don't know how we are gonna return home.
23:55 Anyway we get to church, I have my tithe money in my pocket,
24:00 well the Lord's tithe money in my pocket
24:03 and I finally just commit Lord, this is Your money
24:07 I'm returning back to You.
24:09 At that moment I get the inclination
24:10 to reach my hand in my suit jacket
24:14 and I don't know why,
24:15 because I even battled with it why do I have to stick--
24:19 I put my hand in my suit jacket and felt a piece of paper.
24:23 I thought it was receipt.
24:25 Something said, open that piece of paper up.
24:28 Put my hand in my pocket, I pulled up.
24:31 The exact same amount of money I was about to return to tithe
24:35 was assurance reimbursement cheque that we had received
24:38 90 days ago it was two days away
24:41 from being expired, Monday.
24:43 Come on now. Come on now.
24:44 So the Lord provided exactly what I was gonna give to Him.
24:49 And He said, get back to him and He just said, you know,
24:52 this is what I'm talking.
24:53 All I want you is to trust me, I will take care of things.
24:56 And then sometimes it may seem like nothing is happening,
25:00 you return the tithe the bills don't get paid,
25:03 something happens but the Lord always finds a way to come back
25:07 and you will see it and say that my Lord, thank you,
25:11 thank you.
25:12 Yeah, David said that I Psalms 37:25,
25:15 and he says "I have never seen the righteous forsaken,
25:19 or his seed begging bread."
25:21 Yes. Yeah.
25:22 Some quick practical solutions
25:25 agree to live within your means.
25:27 Okay.
25:28 If you can afford a car
25:32 buy one for $15,000.
25:34 Do not live above your means, live below your means.
25:40 For the ladies, even this is a show for guys
25:43 avoid killing time at the mall.
25:46 If you gonna go to the mall to exercise to walk,
25:49 leave your money at home.
25:51 Don't take it with you. Yeah.
25:54 Practical solution, use a weekly allowance method.
25:59 And when that money is finished it is finished.
26:03 Take your lunch to work. Okay.
26:06 Very simple, very practical solutions.
26:09 Yes.
26:10 So wives can be assets or liability.
26:15 That's right. That's right.
26:17 Absolutely, absolutely.
26:18 Now our time is running now
26:20 and I just want to kind of you know,
26:21 to get us to back again to, you know,
26:24 disgusting one last time for that person who is struggling
26:27 right now with their resources, they want to give--
26:31 I should say, they want to return,
26:32 they want to be faithful to God or not,
26:35 you know, how do we really encourage this man-- all right,
26:39 you said before a woman
26:40 especially the man though that's struggling.
26:43 We have a minute and half left, kind of Brandon,
26:45 just kind of wrap it for us and tell us what we can do.
26:50 Well, we talked about the Word of God
26:53 and God has been clear on His promises.
26:56 It takes a measure of faith.
26:58 If what you been doing is not working
27:01 you have nothing to lose.
27:03 Try Him, prove Him as He says and I guarantee you
27:07 He will bless you.
27:09 That's good. That's good.
27:10 You know, a text came to my mind as well that encourages me
27:14 and that's from Luke 6:38 where the Bible says,
27:18 "Give, and it shall be given unto you,
27:21 good measure, pressed down,
27:23 shaken together, and running over,
27:25 shall men give into your bosom.
27:27 For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be
27:30 measured to you again."
27:32 Amen. Amen.
27:34 Press down, shaken together, and running over.
27:38 Bible says that God loves a cheerful giver.
27:42 My brother, I challenge you, you know,
27:44 even though the resources maybe tight right now or maybe you
27:47 are in abundance right now the reality is that
27:50 you are blessed to be a blessing.
27:52 Be faithful to God and won't you see
27:54 that God will be faithful to you every step of the way.
27:57 This has been another just outstanding episode.
28:00 I praise God for just this topic today.
28:03 Let's live responsible for God.
28:06 Until next time I'm Pastor William Lee,
28:08 we look forward to seeing you again "For Guys Only."


Revised 2015-09-28