Participants: Pr. William Lee (Host), Brandon Dent, Colin King PhD
Series Code: FGO
Program Code: FGO000024
00:01 Hi, welcome to "For Guys Only", a program that's designed
00:04 to meet the needs of the urban man.
00:06 I'm Pastor William Lee and I'm so grateful
00:08 that you joined our program on today.
00:10 Today, we're gonna talk about part two of
00:12 "Talk to me about substance abuse in alcohol."
00:16 Stay tuned as we go right into our broadcast.
00:32 All right, gentlemen,
00:33 it's so good to see each one of you
00:34 all here for another broadcast of "For Guys Only."
00:37 I'm so thankful once again that we have
00:39 another great topic for our viewers on today.
00:43 As we get started let's kind of introduce ourselves once again
00:46 and tell our audience a little about yourself
00:49 and then we'll go forward.
00:50 My name is Colin King, I am a clinical psychologist
00:54 and a certified therapist in counseling and substance abuse.
01:00 I have a wonderful wife and two teenagers
01:03 and I'm happy to be in the show today.
01:05 All right, very good.
01:07 Hi, my name is Brandon Dent
01:08 and I am a retired automotive executive, retired early.
01:14 And I'm running my own marketing company now.
01:18 I am married, have been for 27 years.
01:21 I have two grown sons and a teenage daughter at home.
01:24 All right, very good.
01:26 And I'm Pastor William Lee, I pastor at the capital city
01:29 Seventh-day Adventist church in Indianapolis, Indiana.
01:32 Married for eight years, have two children,
01:34 six year old as well as a year and a half year old as well.
01:38 So we're grateful to be here to discuss this topic.
01:42 Dr. King, why don't you give us a word of prayer, get started.
01:44 Father, we are so grateful for this opportunity.
01:47 We are aware that substance abuse is a huge issue
01:51 in our nation and around the world.
01:53 And so we ask Your guidance, we ask Your blessings
01:57 and we pray that we will propose healthy, practical,
02:01 useful solutions in Jesus name, amen.
02:04 Amen. Amen. All right.
02:06 So we kind of want to start for the text today,
02:08 kind of bring our springboard for our discussion today.
02:11 And it comes from 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20,
02:16 where the Word of God reads as such.
02:18 Starts off with a question by saying, "What?
02:20 Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost
02:23 which is in you, which you have of God,
02:26 and you are not your own?
02:28 For you are bought with a price,
02:31 therefore glorify God in your body,
02:33 and in your spirit, which are God's."
02:37 Wow, Bible tells us that, we don't belong to ourselves,
02:39 that we ought to glorify God in our body
02:42 and that our body again is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
02:46 You know, gentlemen in our last broadcast, you know,
02:48 one of the broadcast we talked about a substance abuse
02:51 and alcohol and one of the things
02:52 that we really dealt with was our children.
02:56 And children, you know, are key as in teenagers knowing
03:01 that substance abuse and alcohol
03:03 are detrimental to their health.
03:06 But yet, you know, they still--
03:08 they still do it, you know,
03:09 they are still drinking across campuses,
03:12 people are, you know, at young age
03:14 we're seeing that they are trying all types of drugs.
03:18 The question I have for you is know--
03:20 if they know it's so bad why do they continue to do it?
03:24 Why they are still experimenting at this point?
03:27 You know, that's a good question.
03:29 You know, we in our previous talk on this subject matter
03:34 we talked about people who are caught up in addiction
03:38 and you can almost understand
03:43 why someone who is addicted would continue in it.
03:48 But someone who has never started,
03:51 they have all the data and the facts,
03:53 they know it's bad,
03:54 they know it can go somewhere bad.
03:57 It can be a little baffling why they would get started
04:01 on something that they are not even addicted to.
04:05 One of the main answers
04:06 I think we all know and agree to is peer pressure.
04:11 And it's very easy to throw peer pressure out there.
04:14 But sometimes I think we don't fully get
04:18 that it is so strong that it will cause a child
04:22 to do something that they don't even want to do.
04:25 Not interested in doing, for that things sake.
04:30 All right, but it gets transferred,
04:32 their interest gets transferred
04:35 of of the detriment of the drug,
04:37 what they want to do,
04:38 what they know is right or wrong
04:40 and it gets transferred to their social needs.
04:43 Okay. Being accepted.
04:45 You know, it's sort of like it,
04:46 well, I'll hit this thing but I wont inhale.
04:50 Right? Right? Yeah.
04:52 I want these guys to accept me and think I'm a part of them.
04:55 You can see there is a conflict.
04:56 I really don't want to do this thing
04:58 but yet the social dynamics are pulling me into it.
05:02 Okay. Okay, so peer pressure then is one of those main--
05:05 Main avenues that a kid has been exposed to.
05:08 Yes, and in the experience that I had, personal experience
05:12 comes through my mind when I was--
05:14 when I was a kid, I was playing football
05:17 with some friends, myself and my brother.
05:20 They didn't go to church
05:22 and we were the so called "church boys."
05:25 And in the huddle they would pull out a joint,
05:28 light it up, pass around when the play was done,
05:32 last guy pulled it out, put it in his pocket.
05:34 The rule was, next huddle
05:36 we had to line up in the same order, right.
05:38 'Cause they would light it up from there
05:39 and keep passing, right.
05:41 And I had decided, you know, we can't--
05:45 we can't look weak to these guys.
05:48 You know, sometimes looking weaker
05:49 could get you beat up, right.
05:53 Maybe I'll just hit this thing and not inhale, okay.
05:56 When my brother, my brother, my older brother
05:58 who was positive influence on me, he broke the protocol.
06:03 And I'm almost certain that he knew he needed to get
06:07 in front of me in this thing, when I think back on it.
06:11 But he broke the protocol and he lined up out of order,
06:15 before this joint got to me.
06:16 And when it got to him,
06:18 he said, "No, man, we don't do that."
06:20 Okay. We don't do that kind of--
06:21 "We" he spoke for the both of us.
06:24 So and, you know, I was both disappointed
06:27 and relieved at the same time. All right.
06:29 I said, "Well, he's blown our cover."
06:31 But you know, it's out there now.
06:33 And it's easy-- We don't do that.
06:35 That's right. To stick to my convictions.
06:38 And I think that for me and I look back on it,
06:40 it really speaks to the strong social needs
06:43 that we can have as teenagers that call us into things
06:47 that we don't even want to do.
06:49 You know, I love what you just said about,
06:52 you know, your brother stepped in and he kind of broke it up.
06:55 He broke it out some.
06:56 That's something that our young people
06:58 need to understand, I like that.
07:00 You know, just because everybody is doing something
07:02 doesn't not mean that you have to do it as well.
07:04 Yeah, absolutely. You know, dare to be different.
07:06 Dare to dream, dare to think larger.
07:08 Don't just settle for what everybody else is doing,
07:11 especially when you know better.
07:13 When you know better, do better
07:15 that's what I use to tell all the time.
07:17 Now I want go-- shift a little bit because,
07:19 it's one thing we talk about our teenagers
07:21 experiencing drugs and substance abusing
07:23 and hooked on to that young age.
07:25 But there's another thing for our adults and adults,
07:29 sometimes we mask it you know, even in the church is mass.
07:33 But I think this is a real issue that we find
07:36 in our churches as well, substance abuse and alcohol.
07:41 Talk to me a little bit about adults
07:43 and their-- their habits as well.
07:46 You know, with-- talk to sort of a little different
07:49 even though some of the issues are the same
07:51 because there is also peer pressure with adults also.
07:55 But there is a lot of social cues,
07:58 you know, adults go to various functions.
08:02 You know, especially if you are in the entertainment business,
08:05 you know, we see this in Hollywood.
08:08 And we see this at wedding receptions
08:10 and parties and so on and so forth.
08:13 We're-- the thing is this is what you do,
08:16 you know, they are not drinking too excess.
08:19 You know, they're just having a toast.
08:21 They are just doing something under down below and why not.
08:27 And so adults fall into that same trap
08:30 and have to use some of the same strategies
08:32 that Brandon's brother used because we know that
08:38 in some studies about 10% of people
08:41 who try substances will become addicted to it.
08:45 And the problem is you just don't know
08:47 if you are part of that 10%.
08:50 And so why want to risk when you know
08:53 how far reaching their consequences could be.
08:57 And, you know, only recently
08:59 we've had a number of public figures, celebrities
09:05 who were fallen prey to some of these substances.
09:10 And the problem is, you know,
09:11 as we mentioned in the earlier broadcast,
09:13 once you get on and the drug hijacks your pleasure center.
09:18 There is no telling where it's gonna end up.
09:21 That's right. You have no idea.
09:23 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
09:24 You know, just drinking alcohol alone just, you know--
09:27 I have never drunk, I never drunk before
09:29 and I'm proud to say that, but just looking at
09:32 you know, someone, you know, that's drunk,
09:35 you know, just walk down the street, just sloppy drunk,
09:37 you know, they cant walk, they can't process,
09:40 you know, they start to seeing stuff that,
09:41 you know, it's not there and lot of times
09:43 they just make poor decisions
09:45 so many times when you are drinking.
09:46 You know, women start looking better, so to speak.
09:49 When you're drinking you are just out of your mind.
09:51 So talk a little bit about being
09:53 about the psychological effects
09:56 of this chronic imbalance that's happening.
09:59 You know, we know that some of these drugs for instance
10:03 like alcohol and by the way, alcohol is a drug.
10:06 Okay. Some people don't see it as a drug.
10:09 But the definition of a drug is anything
10:11 that is mind or mood altering.
10:15 So alcohol falls in that category,
10:17 it's not a stimulant.
10:18 It depresses the central nervous system.
10:21 And so that is why ordinarily people are not able
10:24 to do certain things or say certain things.
10:27 But once they begin to take a drink,
10:29 now they become disinhibited.
10:32 So it's easier to see and do certain things
10:35 and you're right, you know, women look different to the guy
10:38 who is under the influence of substances.
10:42 And so those are some of the pitfalls.
10:46 I don't know if I've answered your question but...
10:49 Yeah, I think that is key.
10:51 Brandon, again you mentioned before,
10:53 you know, your brother stepping in
10:55 and I think that's absolutely critical.
10:57 Talk about the need for us as men to step in to other men,
11:04 other brothers who we see are going down a different--
11:08 a negative track as well.
11:09 How important is that? It's very important.
11:11 As a matter of fact it's in the Word of God.
11:13 He said, you know, well--
11:16 I'll put it this way with Cain and Abel all right,
11:19 Cain said "Am I my brother's keeper?"
11:21 The implication really is that you are.
11:24 We are our brother's keeper.
11:27 And so when we see that our brother is struggling
11:30 or in trouble, we have a moral, spiritual,
11:35 and ethical obligation to try and step in and help in
11:39 as much as that help is welcomed and appreciated.
11:44 Obviously you can't force something
11:47 that someone does not want.
11:49 But it's very important when the Bible talks about
11:55 that the people of God should not
11:57 forsake their gathering together.
12:00 And we talked about that on a previous episode.
12:03 We talked about the support and the surety
12:06 that we can be to each other
12:09 and we come to these situations
12:12 in all kinds of different places.
12:14 But God has always equipped someone
12:16 to minister to someone else.
12:18 And if He has equipped me today, it's my obligation.
12:23 It's my divine obligation to get in motion
12:26 and do that work and minister to my brother.
12:28 I agree with Brandon
12:29 and as we get in to do the work,
12:32 you know, we need to come with solutions,
12:35 because sometimes we don't quite understand
12:39 the struggles of the addicted person.
12:42 Because what they are doing is totally irrational.
12:45 Like you know that your marriage is on the rock,
12:48 you know that you're about to lose your job.
12:50 You know that you're spending too much money
12:53 chasing the drug or trying to find pleasure.
12:56 So those things are totally irrational.
12:59 But the person maintained those habit
13:02 and sometimes it's easy to kind of want to condemn
13:06 that person or the activity without fully getting a grasp
13:09 as to what this person is dealing with.
13:12 So we've got to be prepared to come with solutions.
13:15 You know, how do I help this person?
13:18 So it may mean as a lay person I may have to educate myself.
13:22 What are some of the physical consequences
13:25 for instance of substance abuse,
13:28 cirrhosis of the liver,
13:30 that's a huge one
13:31 and if you have ever seen anyone
13:33 with cirrhosis of the liver, it's not a pretty sight.
13:36 Their abdomen is swollen because the liver
13:40 now is retaining water and is not functioning
13:43 and is essentially becoming hardened.
13:47 You know, those are some natural consequences.
13:49 High blood pressure, it's one of the big killers among people
13:53 and among people of African descent.
13:57 Heart disease, stroke and as we discussed earlier,
14:01 alcohol and other drugs
14:02 restrict blood flow to the brain.
14:06 So there is an early onset of dementia and Alzheimer's.
14:10 So when we come with information
14:12 and solution to help the person to understand,
14:15 this is not worth it.
14:17 You know, a moment of pleasure
14:19 for a life time of pain is not worth it.
14:22 Okay. You're right.
14:23 You know, that reminds of a situation I had
14:25 with a neighbor, a young guy, he and I--
14:30 he wanted to have a discussion with me about whether or not
14:35 from a religious stand point, it was okay to drink
14:38 as long if you didn't get sloppy drunk.
14:41 I mean, in his Christian faith, they could drink casually.
14:46 And he didn't take too kindly to my position.
14:52 And so we just agreed to disagree.
14:55 It was quite interesting that Alice and I--
14:59 we moved and we kept in touch.
15:03 And about five years later he called me to tell me
15:09 that his father had passed from cirrhosis of the liver
15:13 and he over did the drinking piece
15:16 and that was-- you know his end.
15:19 I mean, he was so broken,
15:21 of course I had to really fight everything I had
15:24 within me to try and restart that subject matter,
15:28 or to not restart it in a way that might be inappropriate
15:31 or offensive or its bad timing.
15:35 But it was kind of interesting, his father was in the 60s
15:38 and he always regarded the health of my father
15:41 who was a lot older, probably 15 years older than his father.
15:46 And I have to sometimes wonder if some of that conversation
15:51 that we had five years earlier came back to them,
15:54 I would like to think that the Holy Ghost
15:56 brought some of that back to them.
15:58 Okay, okay. That's good.
16:01 Let's just talk about this little bit as well, the--
16:03 the challenge again with our church members face,
16:07 this is a topic that typically we don't--
16:11 we don't hear a lot about.
16:12 You know, we-- we, you know, members come in
16:15 and you have no idea, you know, what's in their cabinets.
16:18 You know, what's in their homes
16:20 and we're gonna talk about this a lot.
16:22 Talk about the recovery stage or the help stage once again,
16:25 other programs, you know,
16:27 I know people hear about like a 12 step program.
16:30 Is there a parallel connection
16:31 between 12 steps and biblical spirituality?
16:34 You know, how should we get help?
16:38 You know, talk about that a little bit as well.
16:39 You know, one of the things that we've got to realize I'm--
16:43 when I say we, I'm talking not about church folk,
16:46 it's that we don't get to design our pleasure centers.
16:51 You know, we did not get to design our brain structure.
16:54 Those were given to us by God.
16:57 And so it is reasonable to assume
17:00 because we didn't design it
17:02 that there are substances that could hijack it.
17:06 So irrespective of whether you are a Christian
17:09 or a non-Christian or what religion you belong to,
17:12 you are vulnerable.
17:14 And so we've got to realize as a church
17:17 that there is a high probability
17:19 that we have a number of members who are hurting.
17:21 And so we've got to be solutions focused.
17:24 So that's-- that's one stance.
17:27 The other one is that the church has Jesus.
17:31 You know, we believe in God
17:32 and we believe that God can help us.
17:35 We also need to understand that your outside resources
17:39 that God can lead us to utilize.
17:41 For instance you mentioned a 12 step program,
17:44 which really is found to have a high degree of success.
17:47 It actually parallels the principles of the Bible.
17:51 You know, I am powerless. This drug is greater than me.
17:56 There is a power greater than myself.
17:59 And I need to be honest with myself
18:01 and I need to turn it over to God.
18:03 I have never forgotten an experience I had while running
18:06 some substance abuse groups in one of the inner cities.
18:10 This young man was caught using and trafficking crack cocaine.
18:15 And so he went before the judge
18:18 and it actually was his second offence.
18:21 And so the judge said to him three strikes and you are out.
18:27 He said, "If I ever see you in my court again,
18:31 I'm gonna give you 18 years
18:33 and that's from your last offence
18:36 and then I'm gonna sentence you
18:37 from your current offence, okay.
18:41 And I'm thinking, wow, that should be a deterrent. Okay.
18:46 So he went before the judge again
18:49 and he was sentenced to prison, but the judge was lenient.
18:54 The judge gave him I think about a year and a half
18:57 and gave him the same speech.
18:59 I happened to have picked him up when he was released
19:02 and that very night he was hitting the crack pipe again.
19:08 So that's how powerful and seductive the drug is.
19:13 And so we have got to develop a network
19:18 that is geared towards helping people.
19:20 So if the resources are not available in the church
19:24 and they are available outside the church,
19:27 then we need to utilize those resources,
19:30 the expertise of people.
19:32 Some people may need a trial of medication
19:34 to help with the cravings.
19:37 You know, before they are strong enough
19:39 to kind of break that habit.
19:41 Okay, so there is a-- okay the 12 step program then,
19:44 you know, resources, name-- give us some more avenues.
19:48 You know, counseling. Counseling okay.
19:50 Counseling you know, we-- especially as men we feel
19:53 that if we have to go to counsel
19:55 and there is something wrong with us.
19:56 You know, if there is some type of weakness in us
19:59 and we should not be doing that but certainly there is
20:01 a number of substance abuse counselors who are available.
20:06 For some people, they may have to go into a treatment program
20:10 for an extended time, so they can be physically removed
20:15 from the cues in the environment,
20:17 before they can be strong again.
20:20 Some people need a support of network
20:23 in the church of prayer warriors.
20:26 People praying for them, people encouraging them,
20:29 people cheering them on.
20:30 So it should be sort of a multi faceted approach
20:34 as opposed to just saying, I'm just gonna pray to God
20:36 and everything is gonna be all right.
20:38 Okay. Okay.
20:39 That was the point that support group within the church
20:46 and the reason why I think that's a very strategic piece
20:49 is because the church has a unique challenge in that
20:54 because of everything that it stands for.
20:57 All right, the person that is abusing
21:00 substances or alcohol or drugs is gonna hide.
21:06 So you've got to first figure that out.
21:09 Now when there is and when I say support group,
21:13 it starts with just basic relationships in the church.
21:17 And through those relationships you can begin to learn
21:20 and uncover some things and realize that your brothers
21:23 is in trouble, your sister is in trouble
21:25 and that they may need some help.
21:27 But that whole relationship piece is huge.
21:30 Because of this particular dynamic of,
21:34 you know, that's associated with church.
21:37 Okay. All right, Good, good, good.
21:39 I want, you know,
21:40 brother you had to be honest though with yourself.
21:42 Let's talk with that honesty piece again that,
21:45 recognizing, I think like the first step
21:47 in the 12 step program is that, hey, I have a problem.
21:49 There is something that's going on that I need help with.
21:52 And we may ask the issues,
21:54 we only create a deeper problem.
21:56 I want to-- I want to share with you a--
21:58 and our viewers a--
22:00 it's called the Autobiography in Five Chapters.
22:03 It's written by author by the name of Portia Nelson.
22:07 And Portia Nelson is very profound, she says this.
22:10 This is her Autobiography of Five Short Chapters,
22:13 chapter 1 says, she says, "I walked down the street.
22:16 There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I fall in.
22:19 I am lost, I am helpless. It isn't my fault.
22:23 It takes me forever to find my way out."
22:26 Chapter 2 says, "I walk down the same street.
22:28 There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
22:30 I pretend I don't see it. I fall in again.
22:34 I can't believe I am in the same place.
22:37 But it isn't my fault.
22:38 It still takes a long time to get out."
22:40 Chapter 3, she says, "I walk down the same street.
22:43 There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
22:45 I see it there.
22:47 I still fall in, it's a habit by now.
22:51 My eyes are open. I know where I am.
22:54 It is my fault.
22:56 And this time I get out immediately."
22:59 Chapter 4 says, "I walk down the same street.
23:02 There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
23:04 This time I walk around it." There you go.
23:08 Chapter 5, the last chapter says,
23:10 oh, I got it "I walked down another street."
23:15 I walk down another street now.
23:16 And you said pour me that our biography of five chapters
23:19 into say that a lot of times
23:21 the reason why we don't have victory,
23:23 the reason why we keep on, you know,
23:25 going to substance abuse and alcohol
23:28 or eating certain foods or whatever you're--
23:31 it is-- it's because we keep on walking down
23:34 the same street over and over again.
23:36 You keep falling in the hole and then you say,
23:40 well, it's not my fault but you got to come
23:42 to the realization that it is.
23:44 There are some things that you haven't done,
23:46 there are some things that have been in your background
23:48 that has happened and then victory does come
23:51 when you take ownership and say,
23:53 "You know what, it is my fault."
23:54 And I'm gonna make a deliberate decision not to walk down
23:58 that same street but hey, there are many other roads
24:00 that we can journey on,
24:01 many other paths that we can go on.
24:03 And to obtain victory
24:05 I think that's absolutely critical for us.
24:08 Yeah, also what I like about that is the person didn't go
24:12 from falling into the hole the first time
24:15 to walking down the street the very next time.
24:19 They were honest about the process
24:21 that they went through.
24:23 The denial piece, the excuses, habit. Right.
24:26 As they said, but they-- they acknowledged
24:30 this process that we go through as humans.
24:34 But they stayed on a path that eventually got them to victory.
24:38 Okay, all right.
24:39 Let's kind of, talk about that
24:40 in the last two and a half minutes or so.
24:42 Let's talk about that victory, you know, we always believe
24:45 as Christians that there is victory in Jesus Christ.
24:48 And we say that with everything no matter
24:51 whether it's substance abuse, whether it's alcohol,
24:53 whether it's overeating, blast whatever--
24:56 you know, whatever you're-- it is again.
24:58 We always believe that there is victory.
25:01 Now we don't take away of course going to counseling
25:03 and getting help and everything else
25:05 but let's talk about you know,
25:08 what should our step be to obtain this victory in Christ
25:12 as He wants to deliver us
25:13 because we have seen in the Bible,
25:15 we see Christ deliver demoniacs
25:18 who that were possessed with demons,
25:20 we see people that issues blood, you know,
25:21 God does amazing things, you know,
25:24 how then do we position ourselves
25:27 to obtain the victory from Christ.
25:29 I understand that this thing is bigger than I'm,
25:33 I'm powerless, I need to turn to someone bigger than I am
25:39 and the only person that I know is Jesus Christ
25:42 and Jesus Christ doesn't always
25:45 instantaneously perform a miracle.
25:48 You know, some as I mentioned before He may lead us
25:50 to significant people or significant pathways
25:54 or to different streets.
25:55 All right.
25:56 So that we reviver how we think and we reviver how we feel
26:02 and how we behave and also to understand that
26:06 with some folk it's gonna be an ongoing struggle
26:09 for some folks its gonna be a day by day experience
26:13 and as we realized we got to stay close to Jesus Christ
26:17 and that in and of itself is victorious.
26:20 That's good, that's good. Brandon?
26:21 Yeah, I would also say, flank yourself with some folks
26:24 who have your best interest spiritually in mind.
26:28 They could be people who have maybe been down that path
26:30 and gotten victory
26:32 so they can provide good advice, good council.
26:35 There may be people who have never gone down that path
26:38 but have your interest at the top of buying
26:42 and also see above that these people need to be spiritually,
26:46 they need to be able to be resolute in their,
26:50 their relationship with Jesus Christ.
26:53 And so if you hang out with these people
26:57 that thing becomes contagious.
27:00 And people who can be real, be real.
27:04 Because this is real hard for you to come along
27:07 if you're being drug along by people
27:09 who you see as next to God.
27:14 You immediately give yourself at excuses
27:16 and say, I can't be like that.
27:18 So people need to be real as well.
27:20 Good, good, good.
27:22 I love the Word of God because it gives you so much hope.
27:25 You know the Bible says, "We can do all things
27:28 through Christ who gives us strength."
27:30 You know, no matter what way it is
27:32 we can, we can obtain victory.
27:33 The Bible says without me though Jesus says in John 15:5
27:37 without Me, you can do absolutely nothing.
27:41 The reality is that when we submit ourselves to God,
27:44 I tell you what God does so much work.
27:46 The Bible says is God that works in you both to will
27:49 and to do His good pleasure.
27:51 There's no doubt in my mind that when you give yourself
27:54 to Christ as you submit to Him every similar day Paul says,
27:57 crucify with Christ is no longer
27:59 I that live but God that lives in me.
28:02 I challenge you submit to Him
28:04 and see what God would do in your life.
28:06 I'm Pastor William Lee until next time
28:08 may God richly bless you as you continue
28:10 to put your hand in the hand of our God.