Participants:
Series Code: FGOY
Program Code: FGOY000002S
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00:01 Welcome to For Guys Only.
00:02 A program that deals with topics 00:04 specifically targeted for the urban man. 00:07 Today, we have a very exciting topic. 00:09 Today we're going to look at why men run. 00:28 Gentlemen, welcome once again. 00:30 It's so good to see each one of you all here today. 00:32 Before we get into our discussion today, 00:34 I want to, as always, begin with a word of prayer. 00:37 And, Brandon, 00:38 I'm going to ask you to pray for us today. 00:40 Sure, let's bow our heads. 00:41 God in heaven, 00:42 we thank You for this opportunity 00:44 to come together, 00:45 to discuss very important subjects 00:47 that will be a blessing to men everywhere. 00:52 We just ask that You bind us together in Thee, 00:54 that all will be done 00:56 by Thy name's honor and glory, we pray. 00:58 Amen. Amen. 00:59 Amen. 01:01 All right, Brandon. 01:02 Let's kind of introduce ourselves 01:04 to our audience today. 01:06 We'll start with you. 01:07 Yes, my name is Brandon Dent. 01:09 I am a retired auto executive 01:12 and I'm running my own marketing company now. 01:15 And I'm also doing work at my church as a local elder, 01:20 and some work in the community as a mentor 01:22 for a program called Be Men. 01:25 Married 27 years, 01:28 2 grown sons and a teenage daughter at home. 01:31 Okay, good. 01:32 Certainly. 01:33 My name is Colin King, I'm a clinical psychologist. 01:36 I've been practicing for the last 17 years. 01:40 I have two wonderful children. 01:43 And I'm married to the same person. 01:45 I am very active in my church, 01:47 and I'm just excited to be here today. 01:49 All right, good. 01:51 My name is Muta Mwenya, 01:53 executive director for Elijah 3 Ministries. 01:56 Married, two children, 01:58 and I'm also quite involved in my church 02:02 locally, working with the youth. 02:04 Okay, good. 02:05 And I'm Pastor William Lee, of course, married seven years, 02:08 two children, local pastor, Lake Region Conference. 02:12 Currently pastoring at the Capital City 02:14 Seventh-day Adventist church. 02:15 All right, let's kind of, you know, 02:17 jump into our discussion 02:19 by looking at what the Bible says. 02:21 I want to begin with a text here. 02:23 We kind of always begin to see what God says first, 02:25 as we go into our broadcast. 02:27 Joshua 24:15, the Bible says this, 02:31 "If it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, 02:35 choose you this day, whom you will serve, 02:38 whether the gods which your father served 02:40 that which were on the other side of the flood, 02:42 the gods of the Amorites, 02:44 which were in the land you dwell," 02:45 but it says, 02:46 "But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." 02:51 We will serve the Lord. 02:53 Our discussion is why men run. 02:57 Why men run? 02:58 And I kind of want to get kind of a historical perspective 03:01 on this question. 03:03 And we're specifically talking about 03:05 why men run from responsibility, 03:06 why men run from fatherhood, 03:09 sometimes white men run from financial responsibilities 03:13 in all of the rest. 03:14 So, Dr. King, you can kind of give us 03:16 a historical perspective on this subject. 03:18 Sure. 03:19 When the black male was taken from Africa 03:23 he was brought over for really two purposes. 03:27 One was to work, work, work, work, 03:30 and more work and also to procreate, 03:32 to just to make children. 03:34 As a matter of fact, 03:36 the black male was taken from plantation to plantation 03:40 to breed children. 03:41 And that act of making children 03:45 and being unaccountable for the upbringing 03:50 has sort of trickled down 03:52 or as float down even down to today. 03:55 And there's a lot of financial, emotional, 03:59 and social implications for the black male 04:03 who continues that same habit of just running, 04:07 making children all over, 04:09 there's several implications for that. 04:11 Okay, okay. 04:12 There's in our society today 04:15 there is a need for more fathers. 04:20 I think it's easy to be a baby's daddy, 04:22 you know, we have a whole lot of babies daddies 04:25 but too few fathers. 04:27 And we see in our society today 04:28 that there is this fatherlessness syndrome 04:31 where as you just, you know, 04:33 told sort of from Africa where the, you know, 04:36 the man was the breeder, 04:37 you know, he worked and he bred, 04:39 you know, provided children. 04:41 Fatherlessness is something 04:43 that is happening over and over again, 04:46 and it's really devastating the black family, 04:51 what can we do, you know, 04:53 as men to promote fatherhood 04:56 or to bring the family back together again 04:59 and build in that kind of vein right there, fatherlessness, 05:02 do you all see a problem with it? 05:04 And if so, let's address it right now. 05:06 Well, you know, 05:08 let's look at the financial implication. 05:12 The more children you make, 05:15 the more you become financially responsible for them. 05:18 So if you keep making a number of children, 05:20 boys and girls all over, then you need to support them. 05:24 And how is that even possible? 05:27 Currently, we have about 38% of children, 05:31 black children, that is, 05:33 who grow up in dual parent homes. 05:35 So therefore, 05:37 we've got about 62% of black children 05:41 who grow up in single parent homes, 05:43 and they're mostly raised by their mothers. 05:46 And if the mother doesn't have a viable job, 05:50 then she cannot take care of the needs of her children. 05:53 And if the black male keeps making these children, 05:57 and he cannot take care of them, 05:59 and they cannot take care of themselves, 06:01 then this whole idea of being dependent on social services, 06:06 dependent on others 06:08 is just perpetuated from generation to generation. 06:12 So I think it's important for us 06:13 to kind of stop and take stock 06:15 and look at the issue and see how we can fix it. 06:18 Okay. Okay. 06:19 Yeah. 06:21 I'm a big proponent of education. 06:23 Education, education, education, 06:26 and the right education at the right time. 06:29 A lot of times, we were closing the barn door, 06:32 as they say, after the horse is gone. 06:34 Okay. 06:36 What I've noticed in mainstream society, 06:39 if they find out that 06:40 they're starting to have a systemic problem, 06:43 they will find out 06:45 what the grassroots education element is 06:49 and apply that. 06:50 So they'll go into elementary schools, 06:52 they'll start changing curriculums, 06:55 they will have movements 06:56 that church groups and youth groups 06:58 can latch on to and make the message pervasive. 07:02 So I think this message has to start being taught 07:06 and addressed in programs 07:08 such as the kind that you deal with, Muta, 07:11 because you're dealing and engaged with young people 07:14 early on in mentoring programs that I'm involved in, 07:17 perhaps clients that you have 07:19 that are coming in at a young age 07:21 and are dealing with issues, emotional issues, 07:24 that are just an outgrowth of the circumstance. 07:28 I think we try to look at a more comprehensive 07:30 and pervasive and systematic way 07:32 of starting, getting the education going. 07:35 And then from there, 07:37 you can certainly have some fruit. 07:39 Okay, okay. 07:41 Education, that's good. 07:42 Muta, from your perspective as well, 07:45 especially in the ministry that you're dealing with, 07:47 you know, do you see a lot of children 07:50 that are coming from, 07:52 as Dr. King said, from single parent households, 07:55 and what's some of the implications 07:57 that you've seen there if that's so? 08:00 Definitely, 08:01 I would say about 90% of the young people 08:04 that come through our programs 08:07 or anything that we're working on, 08:09 or coming from single parent homes, 08:11 or dual parent homes, 08:13 where the father may still be in their life 08:15 in some way, shape, or form, 08:17 but they don't see them the majority of the time. 08:22 I'll agree with Brandon, I think it's education. 08:26 It's really important. 08:27 One thing that I believe is 08:29 the ages 14 to 18 is a very integral point 08:31 in somebody's life, especially young men. 08:34 And what we try to do is make sure that 08:40 I take, for example, again, I have a son, 08:43 I make sure these young men see me around my son, 08:47 and I carry my son, 08:49 to do things with them so that they understand 08:52 this is what a father does, you know, 08:56 it's really effective. 08:57 The major effect that I've seen is 08:59 when it comes to church 09:00 and the relationship with spirituality is 09:05 they don't know how to navigate that. 09:09 When we're speaking about God as the Father and, you know, 09:12 He's your Heavenly Father. 09:14 They don't know what a father is. 09:16 So attaching to this being, 09:18 which is also not present visually, it's... 09:24 This just reminds me of my dad, he's not around. 09:26 So why do I have to, you know, worship him? 09:31 He's not around, he's not in front of my face. 09:33 I need him right here. 09:34 So that's what I always say. 09:36 You know, Muta, that's an excellent point. 09:41 Some of the things that I was thinking about 09:43 when this subject came up 09:45 was the fact that 09:47 the devil has put some special effort 09:50 on destroying the image of the father 09:55 because it does make it difficult for us 10:00 to conceptualize a Heavenly Father. 10:04 And He is very insidious and very subtle 10:08 but very impactful 10:10 in trying to dismantle, right, the love, the image, 10:15 the value of God to His children. 10:18 That's good. 10:20 That's powerful. 10:21 So what happens when the man is not in home, 10:26 kids tend to drop out of high school faster, 10:29 they tend to get involved in gang type activities, 10:33 they tend to be defined to the authorities 10:35 as well as to their mothers. 10:37 So there's a lot of implications 10:39 when the male is absent. 10:41 Oh, you know, Dr. King, from a clinical, you know, 10:44 psychologist standpoint, 10:46 and of course, not sharing all the intimate details, 10:48 but of course, 10:50 do you see people, you know, 10:52 it may be in the office or just, you know, 10:54 society that are dealing with these issues, 10:56 especially men of fatherlessness, 10:59 whether it is the man is just not there, 11:01 and I want you 11:02 to kind of break that down a little bit, 11:04 drill down a little bit deeper into, 11:06 you know, some of the effects, 11:07 especially as it relates to the law. 11:09 You know, men have problems with the law, 11:11 even again with other women, how they treat them. 11:15 Sure, sure. 11:17 When the man is not in the home, 11:19 especially for our boys, 11:20 so there is no mentoring, there is no spiritual buttress, 11:26 and so as a result, 11:28 we have maybe about 6% to 5% of boys 11:32 who drop out of high school, 11:34 who want to become involved 11:35 with the law in some way, shape, or form 11:38 because daddy is not in home. 11:41 Incidents of abuse, domestic abuse, 11:45 violence against women 11:47 tend to increase when daddy's not in a home 11:50 because there's now little respect for mom 11:54 or for my sister. 11:55 And even if there is, what can they do, you know, 11:58 there is nothing that they can do to me 12:00 because I maybe 15 or 16, 12:03 but I see myself as a grown man. 12:06 And so we see an increase in violence 12:09 and increase in abuse, 12:11 an increase in legal issues. 12:14 Higher incidents, as I mentioned before, 12:17 substance abuse, and then depression, 12:20 and then it just begins to go into that cycle 12:23 that is never ending, 12:25 and then these boys now tend to make babies faster 12:29 and earlier at an alarming rate, 12:32 and they perpetuate that same cycle 12:34 over and over and over again. 12:36 Wow, wow. 12:38 You know, as I sit here listening to this, 12:39 I had said the thing to myself, well, how blessed, you know, 12:42 that I really am, 12:43 to have a father and a mother in a home, 12:46 you know, as I was growing up. 12:47 I can recall, 12:49 my bedroom was right next to the driveway, 12:54 and at night, you know, 12:56 with my mother there 12:57 and my brother in the house as well, 12:59 but when my father was working, providing for us, 13:02 my bedroom being right next to the driveway, 13:05 when my father parked his car, 13:07 I would sense this type of void, 13:10 you know, that I don't even know what it was, 13:12 you know, growing up, I was just, you know, saying, 13:14 "You know what, boy, you know, 13:15 when would that car pull into the driveway" 13:17 type of thing. 13:18 And then when the car finally did pull into the driveway 13:21 and I can hear my father, 13:23 you know, knowing there's my father coming in, 13:25 I mean, I can go to sleep now. 13:27 I can rest now because dad is home. 13:31 I felt secure, you know, I felt like, 13:33 "You know what, okay, 13:34 everything's gonna be all right." 13:36 And now I can look back on that I can say, 13:38 you know what, there's something to this, 13:40 you know, even as a father right now 13:42 that I recognize that I gotta be there, 13:44 you know, for my sons as well, 13:46 you know, they're very young, 13:48 but I got to make sure that I'm there, 13:49 you know, from the start. 13:51 But let's kind of, you know, talk a little bit of father, 13:53 you know, there are some boys right now 13:55 that are feeling like I felt, 13:57 you know, they don't feel secure, 13:59 they don't feel as if, you know, 14:02 dad is ever going to come in the driveway. 14:04 And a lot of times, reality is, as we already been saying, 14:05 dad never comes in the driveway. 14:08 I mean, he's just absolutely absent. 14:10 So how does that, you know, affect our men as leaders then, 14:16 you know, as the leadership role 14:17 because I mean God has called us, 14:19 you know, to step up to the plate, 14:21 not to run from our responsibilities. 14:24 How does that affect us 14:25 from the leadership side of things, 14:27 even leadership in your family or leadership at work 14:29 or wherever it is? 14:32 Well, as a leader, particularly in the church, 14:38 and you have to be careful with this 14:39 because it's not like it used to be. 14:41 When I was a kid, any man could lay hands on me. 14:45 Yeah. 14:52 If it was like the fathers and the mothers of the church 14:56 had an understanding, a system, if you see him... 15:00 And then, you know, it was double jeopardy 15:02 because if you had to be punished 15:05 by someone else, 15:07 they were going to come and tell my parents. 15:10 And then when I got home I was going to get it again. 15:13 So it was double jeopardy. 15:15 So we have to be careful with that. 15:17 But I still think we have a spirit 15:19 and responsibility in the church 15:21 to reach out, to educate in love, 15:24 to correct in love, 15:25 to communicate to others 15:27 who might be responsible for a child 15:29 who might be having some concerns, 15:31 to plug ourselves into various ministries 15:33 and to youth ministries, AY, Pathfinders, 15:37 and you don't always have to be officially a part of the team, 15:40 any church ministry I know will gladly welcome volunteers. 15:44 Now break that down a little bit, 15:46 drill down because you just use a couple words, 15:47 you said AY, and you said Pathfinders, 15:50 explain to us because there might be someone that's, 15:52 you know, not familiar with that. 15:53 Yeah, I'm talking about specific programs that 15:57 that may not be a part of all denominations. 15:59 But there is a denomination, 16:02 it's a Seventh-day Adventist denomination 16:03 that has a program called Pathfinders. 16:06 It is a youth scouting and leadership program 16:09 where young people earn honors. 16:12 They learn marching and drilling, 16:14 most of all, they learn to build their characters, 16:17 and to help finish the work of God 16:20 in this generation. 16:22 AY is actually a specific program 16:23 called Adventist Youth Society. 16:26 And it's special programming 16:28 that goes on in the afternoons on Saturday evenings, 16:33 Sabbath evening we call it, 16:35 and it just provides enrichment programming 16:39 for our young people. 16:40 And you don't have to call it these things. 16:42 You can do these programs in your church, 16:45 in your communities, where you find yourself. 16:47 So what Brandon is saying, and, you know, 16:50 I wholeheartedly agree that it takes a village, 16:53 it takes a village to fill that void. 16:56 Two very quick examples. 16:59 I have a friend of the family, 17:01 we call her the Facebook police 17:03 because in this day and age of Facebook, 17:06 and Twitter and MySpace, 17:09 if parents are not able to monitor 17:11 the activities of your children online, 17:14 we need someone to do it for us. 17:16 So my friend was a Facebook police, 17:17 if he sees something on Facebook, 17:20 she will call me and tell me 17:21 or she'll call the mom and tell her. 17:24 And if that child, 17:26 you know, I'm not sure how they do it, 17:28 but if they remove her from their contact, 17:30 she calls them, and she says to them, 17:32 "Put me back, put me on contact." 17:35 So it takes a village. 17:36 A friend of mine, 17:38 I saw his daughter who's a new driver, 17:40 you know, I thought I knew that 17:42 she was not supposed to be driving with friends. 17:44 So I saw her in a car with friends. 17:46 And I called her and I said, 17:49 "I'm gonna tell your dad. I'm not snitching on you. 17:53 But you know that you're not supposed 17:54 to be driving with friends in your car 17:56 because you're a new driver." 17:57 And so I called him and told him 17:59 and she got in trouble. 18:00 So I'm looking out for his daughter. 18:02 So we need to step up 18:04 and begin to parent children 18:06 who are not necessarily our children. 18:09 Okay. 18:10 I love that. 18:11 I love that concept that you said, 18:13 that you just shared that 18:14 it kind of says that we are our brother's keeper. 18:16 Absolutely. 18:18 We got to look out for each other 18:19 and that's what I really think that 18:21 if manhood and if black men 18:24 are really going to be what God calls us to be 18:26 "Hey, I'll look out for you, man." 18:28 If you're falling, 18:29 if you're slipping, I gotta say, 18:30 "Hey, Muta, come on, man, 18:32 you know, let's do it the way that God wants it to be done." 18:34 I think that means a whole lot if we look out for each other. 18:37 It takes a village. Yeah. 18:38 That's key. 18:40 What about, you know, for instance, you know, 18:41 men run from their home responsibilities 18:44 sometimes, for instance, 18:46 you know, we're all married 18:48 and, you know, our wives, 18:49 you know, have things that they want us to do. 18:53 You know, or even, you know, the guys not married, you know, 18:56 they are supposed to be watching us right now, 18:57 even their girlfriend, you know, 18:59 they have some responsibilities. 19:00 You know, what happens 19:02 when we don't meet those responsibilities at home, 19:05 especially with our wives or even with our girlfriends 19:08 we've been with. 19:10 Running is easy. 19:11 You know, you can shirk the responsibilities 19:16 and that is the easy way out. 19:19 So what happens? 19:21 Relationships falter, problems surface, 19:26 disagreement, anger, discord. 19:32 So running has its consequences. 19:34 And we need to be aware of that. 19:35 If I'm going to run, 19:37 I need to be able to deal with the consequences. 19:39 And a lot of times, 19:40 we are not prepared to deal with the consequences. 19:43 So we've got to face up, own up, man up, 19:47 and start addressing the issues as to why we're running. 19:51 You know, this comes full circle because, 19:54 you know, we talked about in a previous episode about 19:57 "Adam, where are you?" 19:58 And this whole question of, you know, God looking for Adam, 20:01 but God knows where Adam is, you know, geographically, 20:04 but He knows that spiritually as well. 20:06 And the reality is, it's been said for, 20:08 "You can run but you can't hide." 20:11 Eventually, these things are going to come back 20:13 and to haunt us, if we don't really do it well. 20:17 You know, one of those consequences 20:21 as Dr. King was sort of talking about 20:24 wanting to or needing to be aware of the consequences 20:29 because we make decisions 20:31 based on our understanding of the consequences. 20:35 So when you don't understand the consequences, 20:37 you make that decision more loosely. 20:39 One of the consequences is divorce, 20:42 not taking care of responsibilities. 20:46 Taking out the trash, 20:47 keeping the wife's car in good running order, 20:51 paying something on time, 20:53 you know, when we don't do these things, 20:57 then there are consequences, 20:59 major inconveniences sometimes, a car breaks down. 21:03 And now somebody's got to come up with extra money. 21:06 And that's one of the top 10 reasons for divorce, 21:10 someone perpetually living with someone 21:12 who is so irresponsible that it makes life unlivable. 21:16 One of the top 10 reasons. Wow. 21:18 I'll say something to piggyback off of 21:22 what everybody's saying is security. 21:26 I was taught growing up, I too had a father in the home, 21:30 which I'm so happy about, you know, 21:32 it helped me out a whole lot, 21:34 gave me a step up where others didn't have, 21:36 but the security a woman needs. 21:41 And what her view of a man is after that. 21:46 So if men don't do some of these small things, 21:50 insignificant, as we may see them, 21:54 there is that security blanket 21:56 that's starting to become removed 21:57 and say you're not willing to take care of me. 22:00 And now the lady's view of the man is distorted. 22:06 I have to take care of business 'cause men don't step up. 22:10 And that's why we have so many women, 22:12 angry black women who are mad at the men 22:15 because these small things 22:16 that we think are so insignificant, 22:19 actually have greater impact, 22:21 and security is a major thing that I see. 22:23 Okay. 22:25 Yeah, I couldn't agree more 22:27 because the small things turn into big things. 22:31 And, you know, as Brandon quite rightly said, 22:33 it's 1 of the top 10 reasons for divorce. 22:36 As a matter of fact, 22:37 the best predictor of divorce is contempt. 22:40 Not necessarily anger but contempt. 22:43 And contempt comes about as a result of little things 22:47 just adding up over time, not taking out the trash, 22:50 not taking the car to get a carwash, oil change, 22:55 not making the bed, leaving your clothes all over, 23:00 pay your bill on time. 23:02 After a while, 23:03 that person becomes very, very contemptuous. 23:06 And that is the best predictor of a divorce, contempt. 23:09 Okay, okay. 23:11 You know, we called this program 23:13 Why Men Run? 23:14 And, you know, we don't want men to run. 23:16 That's what we're talking about. 23:18 We want men to stand up. 23:20 And as, you know, Joshua 24:15, says, 23:23 "As for me and my house, " 23:25 I mean, "we are going to serve the Lord." 23:29 You know, guys, in the moments that we have left today, 23:32 kind of share a little bit, 23:33 some of the things that you have made up your mind 23:36 that, you know, whether it was consciously, 23:38 you know, or some things that's in your subconscious 23:40 that you say, 23:41 "You know what, I'm going to do, 23:42 because I don't want my family to suffer 23:45 or I'm going to do this because 23:46 I want to be pleasing in God's sight." 23:49 What were some of those decisions 23:51 that you made along the way 23:53 that caused you not to run from your responsibilities? 23:58 Well, you know, I realized very soon that 24:01 I don't have to be perfect. 24:03 I will never be perfect, but I have to be real. 24:07 And so when I stumble, when I make a mistake, 24:11 I know that I can pick myself up, 24:14 I can dust myself off, and I can try again. 24:17 And so just knowing that has given me hope 24:21 and has given me the momentum 24:22 that I needed to kind of keep on moving. 24:25 That's powerful. That's powerful. 24:27 Yeah, my dad used to say, 24:28 "Son, if you want your marriage to last, 24:33 don't get divorced." 24:35 Don't get divorced. 24:37 And so just extending what Dr. King said here. 24:42 I had to get out of thinking 24:44 that my situation had to be perfect, 24:46 that my wife had to measure up, 24:48 that my kids had to measure up to this. 24:50 And so if they didn't, 24:52 I would get frustrated and be more apt to take off. 24:58 But first of all, 25:00 I got my father here saying 25:02 none of this other stuff matters, 25:04 what matters is the decision. 25:06 Don't make that decision 25:08 if that's not the outcome you want. 25:10 And don't let a non-perfect situation 25:12 'cause that's all situations, 25:14 be the thing that pushes you in that direction. 25:17 Wow, okay. 25:19 I will say, 25:20 the decision that I think is most significant to me 25:23 is not to lie to my wife. 25:26 And this goes beyond what we may think of it. 25:30 But even when I'm weak, 25:33 I cannot act as if nothing's wrong. 25:38 My wife has to know for we believe, 25:42 as men we grew up thinking weakness is unmanly. 25:46 But no, I think lying is unmanly. 25:49 Okay. 25:50 I think we have to step up to responsibility and say, 25:53 "Hey, you know, babe, 25:55 I'm weak at this point in time, you know, 25:57 things are a little rough, 25:59 but I will stand and do what I need to do 26:04 if you'll stand with me," 26:06 or I'll just stand if I have to, 26:09 you know, by my myself, but yeah. 26:12 That's a good word. 26:13 That's a good word, to stand, to stand no matter what. 26:16 I'm gonna wrap it up, you know, in this last minute. 26:19 And, you know, 26:20 I really want the man 26:22 that's listening to us right now 26:24 or even the woman 26:25 that's listening to us right now, 26:26 to understand that, 26:28 with God, all things are possible 26:31 that well, you know, we have responsibilities that, 26:34 you know, drag us this way, 26:35 or take us this way or the other. 26:38 When God becomes our top priority, 26:41 we want to make God really as the Bible says, 26:44 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God 26:47 in all of His righteousness." 26:48 The Bible says that all these things 26:50 shall be added on to us. 26:53 My friend, my brother, who's listening, 26:56 I really want you to seek God first. 26:58 I really want you to surrender yourself to God, 27:02 even if there was not a father in the home. 27:04 The Bible says that 27:05 God really will be a father to the fatherless. 27:08 He'll build you up, He'll give you the confidence, 27:10 He'll give the assurance, 27:12 you will recognize that you are more than a conqueror 27:15 when Jesus Christ comes into your life. 27:18 So, my brother, hang in there. 27:20 It's gonna be alright 27:21 when you put your hand in the hand of our God. 27:24 Hey, until next time, 27:26 I'm Pastor William Lee, 27:27 and my co-hosts today, 27:29 I appreciate you all and I thank you all. 27:30 Let's continue to stand strong in the Lord. 27:32 Absolutely. 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Revised 2023-04-13