Participants:
Series Code: FHDD
Program Code: FHDD000002S
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00:01 It happens a lot these days
00:02 where people are so discouraged and depressed 00:04 that they're just tempted to take their lives. 00:06 If you know what that's like, I do know what that's like, 00:09 and I want to tell you, don't do it. 00:11 There's hope for you. 00:12 So stick with us. We'll be right back. 00:36 Hi, and welcome back 00:37 to part two of a three-part series 00:39 called Finding Hope in Depression and Despair. 00:43 I am Pastor Steve Wohlberg 00:44 and my guest is Christy Christopher, 00:47 and we're here to share with you 00:49 what we've been through 00:50 and how God has rescued us and saved our lives, 00:54 and how he can save you too. 00:56 Christy Christopher works for a man, 00:58 at least as one of her jobs. 01:01 His name is Dr. Neil Nedley. 01:02 He is the head physician 01:04 and the director of a wonderful program 01:07 called Depression and Recovery program. 01:10 Actually, the full program is called anxiety. 01:12 How do you say it? 01:13 It's Depression Anxiety program. 01:15 That's right. Depression and Anxiety Recovery program. 01:17 He's written a book called Depression: The Way Out. 01:20 Christy Christopher is my guest. 01:22 She works for Dr. Nedley during his program. 01:26 She is a registered nurse in Texas 01:29 in the Fort Worth area in Dallas. 01:31 And the hospital you work again, 01:33 that's called Medical City? 01:35 Medical City of Dallas. 01:36 Medical City. Yes. 01:37 And, Christy, in our, in part one, 01:39 she shared her story 01:40 where she grew up in Pennsylvania 01:43 and made some, some poor choices 01:46 and got involved in the wrong crowd 01:49 and started also dealing with depression 01:52 and she had suicidal thoughts 01:54 and tried to take her life five times, 01:57 but each time miraculously she survived. 02:01 And so, Christy, 02:03 we want to continue on with the story. 02:06 Thank you for being here. 02:08 It's a privilege for having me. Thank you for coming here. 02:10 As I mentioned in part one 02:13 at the time when we're doing this, 02:14 when we're filming this, recording this, 02:17 we are in the Coronavirus crisis 02:21 and who knows how long this will go on 02:23 people that may watch this program in the future, 02:26 we may not be in this crisis. 02:28 We don't know, 02:29 but we do know that 02:31 whether we are or whether we're not, 02:33 there's going to be other crisis 02:35 people are going to be going through. 02:36 And that's just part of living in this sinful world 02:39 until Jesus comes back and gets rid of sin. 02:41 That's right. 02:43 So a lot of people are struggling with depression, 02:44 anxiety, fear, worry, 02:48 medications that they're on. 02:50 And it isn't true, Christy, 02:51 that generally speaking most of the time 02:55 when a person is depressed 02:57 and they go to their family physician, 03:00 that most of the time 03:02 they're just prescribed some kind of antidepressant, 03:06 is that right? 03:08 Sometimes women will have symptoms 03:10 where they will just cry for no reason. 03:13 And men typically have more of that feeling of emptiness. 03:17 And so the women will lot of times 03:19 go to the physician's office 03:21 and say, I don't know why I'm just crying. 03:23 And it's something simple may have happened. 03:25 And they just cry over something 03:27 that normally they wouldn't cry about. 03:29 And so a lot of times 03:30 their physician will prescribe them 03:32 an antidepressant at that point. 03:34 And what about the men? 03:35 The men do not seek treatment. 03:37 I don't have statistics on this, 03:39 but the men typically don't seek treatment 03:41 as often as women. 03:43 So it's actually underdiagnosed. 03:45 So, is that why, 03:46 at least from what we read in the last program, 03:48 we talked about the CDC 03:50 and the World Health Organization, 03:52 and they did say that 03:53 depression is more common among women than among men. 03:56 And is that simply because 03:58 the men don't get diagnosed as much? 04:00 In my opinion, I would suspect that. 04:02 So it's probably equal? I would think so. 04:04 It's probably underreported. 04:06 A lot of times, even with suicide, 04:08 men are more successful 04:10 because they will do more fatal means 04:13 to try to end their lives, so. 04:15 Really? 04:16 Do you think that a lot of people 04:18 who try to commit suicide, 04:22 if their attempt is unsuccessful 04:24 it's because maybe somewhere inside there, 04:27 they didn't try hard enough. 04:29 Whereas with the men, 04:30 you said they're often more successful 04:32 with the women, do they? 04:33 It's hard to say. 04:35 I know though they have done studies on patients 04:38 who have jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge 04:40 to try to commit suicide. 04:41 And a lot of them will have the thought 04:44 as they're falling that, why did I do this? 04:47 I wish I could take this back. 04:48 And so it's an impulsive act. 04:50 And so a lot of times it can, 04:52 you know, if intervenes in the right way, 04:56 it may not have to get to that point. 04:58 And I'm assuming that 04:59 people that jump off the Golden Gate Bridge 05:01 and have that thought on the way down 05:02 that they survive. 05:03 They survive. 05:05 Because you suicide and you make it or no. 05:06 Right, right. They had that thought. 05:07 Yes, exactly. 05:09 So, and thank God that there are a lot of times 05:11 that the attempts are not successful. 05:14 In your case, you've had five. 05:15 Yes. 05:17 And I'll share a little bit more later how 05:18 I never really tried to kill myself, 05:21 but when I went through one of my deep struggles 05:24 with depression and anxiety 05:26 and the medication that I was on, 05:28 the temptation was very strong 05:30 and it was just like this running voice inside my head, 05:33 you know, just take your life, take your life, take your life, 05:35 just, you know, end it all. 05:38 You don't have to worry about this much longer, 05:40 just, you know, I'd be driving down the highway 05:42 and this thought would come to me, 05:43 just, you know, the cars coming out of the way, 05:45 just go around the other side and just boom, you know? 05:48 And, but I never did that. 05:51 Good. Yeah. Praise God. 05:53 I'm thankful, very thankful that, 05:56 and that's behind me now, 05:58 you know, all that's behind me, I feel really good right now. 06:00 We got up both this morning and we texted each other 06:04 and you're staying not far from my house. 06:06 And so we got up and we met this morning. 06:08 We both went jogging and at about 6:30, 06:10 and we were just in, in North Idaho. 06:13 My dog ran with us 06:15 and we are both very thankful to be alive. 06:18 Amen. 06:19 We've both struggled with depression. 06:21 We've struggled with anxiety. 06:22 We've struggled with medication and suicidal thoughts, 06:26 but God has been good to us. 06:28 Amen. That's right. 06:29 Okay. So and we want to give people hope. 06:32 That's why we're here. That's right. 06:34 So let's go back to. 06:35 You mentioned that you had, 06:37 you know, you were married and your divorce 06:40 was real, very difficult for you 06:42 and you have seven year old boy, 06:43 and then you... 06:45 There was a failed suicide attempt in a hotel. 06:49 And after three days you woke up 06:51 and you survived and it wasn't long after that, 06:54 that your mother called you 06:56 and said that I'm about to meet Dr. Nedley 07:00 or he's standing right in front of me, 07:03 Dr. Neil Nedley. 07:04 And he connected you with him and you enrolled in his program 07:09 in Weimar, California, in Northern California. 07:12 And you told us also that you, 07:15 your mother told you, 07:16 you get to go to California and lay out in the sun. 07:19 That's not what happened. 07:20 That was her. 07:22 That was the way she enticed you 07:23 to go to the Dr. Nedley's Program. 07:24 That's right, 'cause I thought it was going to be fun 07:26 and games and you get to kind of lay out by the pool. 07:29 But that, that, that 07:31 found out that it was more like a mental health boot camp. 07:34 Yeah. 07:35 It's, so it was vastly different, 07:37 but it's what I needed. 07:38 I just didn't know at the time. 07:40 Yeah. So, okay. 07:41 So tell, let's just, let's just follow on with your story. 07:45 Just tell us about maybe your trip there 07:47 and then what happened when you got there? 07:49 So the trip there was, okay. 07:51 I mean, there wasn't a lot of event fullness. 07:53 I just flew to California. 07:55 From DFW. From DFW. 07:56 You've probably landed in Sac Central. 07:58 Right. Landed in Sacramento. 08:00 Sacramento International Airport. 08:01 I was smoking at the time. 08:02 So I had one last cigarette at the airport 08:04 before Daniel picked me up. 08:06 So... Daniel? 08:07 Daniel was the one that picked me up. 08:09 He used to do massage there for a day or two? 08:10 Yes. 08:12 Yes, he's the missionary pilot from Venezuela that comes in, 08:14 does the program. 08:15 He has an incredible story. He does. 08:17 He lives in the jungle, in the bush. 08:18 Yes. It's amazing. 08:19 And he helps kids. 08:21 I know he's incredible. 08:22 Him and his wife, both, they do a lot of mission 08:24 and outreach and things and he was, he was a very... 08:27 He was very kind, 'cause I was very difficult. 08:30 So Daniel picked you up at the airport? 08:32 Yes. 08:33 Drove you an hour north to Weimar Institute. 08:35 That's right. Yeah. 08:37 And he was trying to make small talk, 08:39 but I was pretty closed off. 08:43 Really my thoughts towards other people, 08:46 I just was pretty closed off 08:48 and just wanting to just isolate, 08:50 do my own thing. 08:52 You know, stick with my bad habits 08:55 and just, you know, everyone just kinda keep a distance. 08:58 And going to the program, 09:00 I didn't know really what to expect. 09:03 But I got there and it's not the poolside. 09:08 It was, you know, I had gone away from the church 09:11 and so I had a negative view about God in the church. 09:15 And so when I got there, 09:16 I realized it was a very spiritual atmosphere. 09:19 I was not going to be able to smoke 09:21 in that setting 09:22 and I just wanted out. 09:24 I was not onboard 09:26 with the program from the get-go. 09:28 I was pretty like, okay, I want out of here. 09:31 I didn't know where I was going to go. 09:32 I just wanted out of it. 09:34 And did you, were you still on medication at that point? 09:36 Yeah. 09:37 Do you remember what you were taking? 09:38 I think it was Clonazepam, 09:40 I was on the stair-step medications. 09:42 I was on Trazodone, Adderall, Cymbalta. 09:47 And there was something else that they had me on. 09:49 So I was on the five or six 09:51 different heavy duty pharmaceutical drugs. 09:54 And were you drinking at that point too? 09:56 At that point I wasn't, I've been sober. 09:57 Just smoking and no other drugs? 09:59 No other drugs. Yeah. 10:01 Only prescription. 10:03 And were you... 10:05 As far as your thoughts about God, 10:07 you said you just wanted 10:08 really nothing to do with Him at that point? 10:10 I didn't want anything, yeah. 10:11 And you weren't planning on any of that changing? 10:13 No, I was pretty... 10:15 I'm curious also where you, how about your sleeping, 10:17 where you, a lot of people that go through the program, 10:19 like when I went through it, 10:21 there was four days in a row, 10:23 four nights in a row 10:25 where actually I didn't sleep at all. 10:26 That was the worst of my insomnia 10:29 was four nights in a row, no sleep. 10:32 Yeah. It was awful. 10:34 So how about you, were you sleeping at that time? 10:36 Sometimes I'd stay up 24 hours 10:39 and then just hit the ground running 10:42 just, you know, 10:43 and there'd be times I was just... 10:44 I don't know, it was just adrenaline, 10:46 and I guess. 10:48 I had issues with sleep too, a lot of insomnia, 10:50 a lot of anxiety. 10:52 Sometimes I'd just lay there just with racing thoughts 10:55 and just, I didn't know how to turn my mind off. 10:58 I'm just like you are kind of turn against me in a way. 11:00 And I'm like, how do I turn this off. 11:02 Right. 11:03 Now, at that time you were still, 11:05 you are an RN at the Medical City Hospital, 11:07 correct? 11:08 At that time, I was at a level-1 trauma center. 11:11 So I worked in intensive care. 11:13 So there was... 11:14 We'd have care flights, flying traumas, 11:17 people, mass transfused. 11:18 So it was a lot of high intensity situations, 11:21 life and death situations at work. 11:24 You are on medication during that whole time? 11:25 I was on medication. 11:27 Yeah. Yeah. 11:28 Did that affect your ability to think? 11:30 I'm sure it did. 11:31 At the time I was able to still do, 11:34 you don't have good reviews at work by God's grace 11:37 and still be able to take care of patients, 11:39 but you know, 11:40 when Dr. Nedley saw the list of medications I was on 11:43 and what I did, he's like, okay, 11:46 he's like, your brain is operational. 11:47 We need to get you off of this stuff 11:49 and get it better. 11:51 We could optimize it. 11:52 So it was, it was hard. 11:55 And, so you were on medication and you were still smoking. 11:57 You didn't want God, 11:59 you didn't, you thought Weimar was going to be a vacation. 12:01 Yeah. 12:02 You didn't really know what you're getting into. 12:04 You're there because your mother wanted you to there. 12:05 She knew what you were going to be getting into. 12:07 Right, right. 12:08 And so, you landed there, 12:09 Daniel who's one of the massage therapists 12:11 picked you up, drove you 12:13 and you drove on the campus and then what happened? 12:15 Ooh. 12:18 I was upset. 12:21 You know, I think I took my cigarettes 12:23 and went down to the river or something 12:25 and I was trying to take these tests 12:27 'cause they have you take a bunch of tests 12:28 when you first come in, like, 12:30 you know, your PQ-9 and your DAT test. 12:32 And so I'm answering all these things and, 12:34 you know, I just was not a happy camper. 12:36 I just didn't want to be there. 12:38 So it was, it was hard. 12:40 I feel bad looking back 12:41 of how difficult I was to deal with. 12:45 And I feel sincerely sorry towards Dr. Nedley for, 12:48 you know, that was difficult. 12:49 The staff really was patient with me, 12:52 really, really patient. 12:54 They basically loved me back to life 12:56 is how I, how I term it. 12:59 So then, the Nedley program 13:02 you're, you're with how many about 19 other people 13:05 or 20 other people? 13:06 Twenty three other people. 13:07 And you're there for 10 days, 13:09 and you're pretty much isolated 13:10 from the rest of the world? 13:11 Right. And you're given a room? 13:13 Right. 13:14 I'm assuming at the Weimar in, you had a room at the end. 13:16 I had a room at the end 13:17 and then they have sort of an orientation 13:20 that kind of tells us what to expect. 13:22 You fill out some paperwork... 13:24 Right. 13:25 And you look around and you see other people 13:27 that are depressed and anxious and not sleeping. 13:29 And one thing they told me, 13:30 or they told the group that 13:32 when you get up in the morning, 13:33 if you're making friends 13:35 with the other participants 13:36 that they don't want you to, 13:38 you know, ask, like, if I saw you in the morning, 13:40 you know, how'd you sleep. 13:41 They don't want you to say, how'd you sleep? 13:43 How'd you sleep? How'd you sleep? 13:44 Because most, a lot of times people don't sleep well. 13:47 Right. 13:48 And they don't just, you know, 13:49 they'd rather just kind of keep that 13:51 under wraps at this point, not talk about it. 13:53 Right. They still say it. 13:55 So, okay. 13:56 So let's go on what... 13:57 It's 10 days and you got there, you got your room. 13:59 You didn't want to be there 14:01 and you started getting some blood tests... 14:03 Yeah. And keep going. 14:05 What they discovered in the program too, is 14:08 they do comprehensive panels on lab work 14:12 and they do something called the Walsh panel. 14:14 And that's not something that's typically done 14:16 in most other programs. 14:17 So that's something that Dr. Nedley trained on 14:19 specifically to try to help participants 14:22 with its epigenetics, 14:24 basically with epigenetics it said that 14:27 lifestyle loads the gun, 14:29 or no genetics loads the gun 14:31 and lifestyle pulls the trigger. 14:33 And so some things can actually be changed. 14:36 And so in looking 14:38 at some of the genetic profiling though, 14:41 that he did discover I have a metal metabolism disorder. 14:44 So what that is, 14:45 is typically we'll have cellular plasma in. 14:47 It's kind of the carrier for copper 14:49 that will draw that out of yourself. 14:51 If it does not do that, 14:53 there's some sort of dysfunction, 14:54 it can manifest itself with depression 14:57 and low norepine or high norepinephrine. 15:00 And basically like 15:02 you just don't take a lot of pleasure in life. 15:04 And so that's what I had. 15:05 And so there was a genetic component too. 15:07 So with the copper, 15:09 does that mean that there's more copper 15:11 floating around in your bloodstream? 15:12 Yes, precisely. So, yeah. 15:14 So it's, it's interesting that you have similar to what I had 15:18 'cause I, when I got to Weimar for the first time, 15:20 I... This was in the summer of 2017, 15:22 I was very depressed 15:24 and I was on Lorazepam 15:25 and I mentioned that last program. 15:27 That's why Dr. Nedley told me on the phone, 15:29 you've got to get down here. 15:30 And, and I went there and I was, you know, 15:34 all mixed up and messed up. 15:35 Didn't know if there was, if it was possible 15:37 that anybody could help me and they did the blood work, 15:40 just like they did with you. 15:41 And Dr. Nedley looked at my chart 15:42 and he saw that in my brain, 15:45 there was a very elevated norepinephrine, 15:48 just like with you. 15:49 And there was very elevated free copper, 15:52 just like with you and those, 15:54 you know, imbalances contribute to all kinds of problems. 16:00 And I've learned that, 16:02 you know, as we've talked about 16:03 sometimes people are depressed 16:05 because of some event 16:06 that happens in their lives, 16:08 or they don't have hope, 16:09 or they're just, you know, discouraged 16:11 because of finances or a marriage or whatever else. 16:15 And there are other times 16:16 that there's just a chemical issue 16:19 going on in the brain 16:21 for whatever reason, maybe it's genetics, 16:24 too much free copper, too much norepinephrine. 16:28 And that just helps contribute to the slide. 16:32 Right. 16:33 And that's, again, one of the wonderful things 16:35 about Dr. Nedley's program is that 16:37 he looks at all of these things. 16:38 He doesn't just, you know, diagnose you, 16:41 oh, you're depressed. 16:43 Let me give you a medicine. 16:44 But he looks at your blood work, 16:46 and he says, 16:47 Ah, here's all these things going on. 16:49 And let's see if we can give you 16:50 some supplements to help with this. 16:52 Right. Yeah. 16:54 And that's very helpful 16:55 for a lot of people too coming in. 16:57 And it was very hopeful for me to find that out 16:58 because then it's, it's one thing to be, 17:01 you know, having a label, 17:04 for instance, like, 17:05 'cause sometimes people can start to identify 17:06 with a label like, 17:08 oh, I'm depressed, that's my identity. 17:10 And it's not as much of an identity, 17:12 but a diagnostic criteria for other practitioners 17:15 to know that this is the cascade of symptoms 17:17 that we need to be on the lookout for. 17:19 So I think that can kind of blur. 17:21 So to have a solution was very, very good to have. 17:25 And so he did do supplements, zinc 17:27 because copper and zinc need to be a one-to-one ratio. 17:30 So it said that 17:31 if you give more zinc than copper, 17:33 then it flushes the copper out 17:35 and you have a more normalized balance. 17:38 And so that testing was done. 17:41 Then with the DAT testing, 17:42 there's the 10 different categories 17:44 that you're probably familiar with that Dr. Nedley 17:47 came up with the depression anxiety test. 17:50 So you can have genetic lifestyle. 17:53 I think it's exercise. 17:55 There's a... 17:56 There's 10 different categories that, 17:58 oh, I think in basically the home life. 18:02 So there's some different things 18:03 that cannot be changed, 18:04 but the good news is eight out of 10 can be. 18:07 So when I went through the program, 18:08 I had nine out of 10 hits, and so that was high. 18:12 Which sure it explained the fact with the depression. 18:14 Right. 18:16 You're depressed because boom, boom, boom, boom. 18:17 Right. Exactly. 18:18 And so we started to kind of, those started to change. 18:22 I was being taught as you go through the program, 18:25 there's a lot of lectures. 18:26 So they do the hydrotherapy. 18:29 I don't know if you touched on that, 18:31 but it's the hot and the cold. 18:32 We mentioned a little bit in the last program. Yeah. 18:33 Yeah. Hot and cold, hot and cold. 18:35 Some people love it, some people hate it. 18:36 Some people, yeah. 18:38 I was kind of a mixed, mixed bag. 18:39 When I first started, 18:40 I thought, how is this going to help? 18:42 I just, I had a bad attitude 18:43 about a lot of things coming from healthcare 18:45 and thinking that 18:47 these just sound like quackery methods. 18:49 And that's kinda what I was thinking in my head. 18:51 And then I started to see Dr. Nedley's lectures 18:54 and I saw the evident scientific research 18:57 that he was putting, that really resonated 18:59 because that's indisputable. 19:00 A lot of people want hard, cold scientific facts 19:03 and he delivered on that. 19:05 So I couldn't dispute that. 19:06 And plus I was seeing people around me getting better 19:09 and I wasn't fully engaged. 19:11 I tried to leave four or five times 19:15 and a one point basically I was... 19:17 You tried to leave four or five times? 19:18 Tried to leave the program. 19:19 How did you do that? 19:22 I called a taxi 19:23 and tried to leave outside the gate 19:26 and Nathan Hyde, I guess, intervened with the taxi. 19:30 And he went to the front gate 19:32 and was waiting for the taxi to come, and... 19:34 How did he know the taxi was coming? 19:36 It was, I think it was somehow intercepted on the phone 19:39 where they had figured this out. 19:41 Now, they take your phones away when you go through? 19:43 And I had my cell phone I wasn't supposed to. 19:46 At one point, like I kept it an extra day, 19:49 so I was not, not compliant. 19:51 I was one of the more difficult participants. 19:53 You were a rebel. 19:55 I was definitely, yeah. 19:56 But not for a cause, I don't know... 19:58 Yeah, more like Jimmy Dean. Yeah, I was. 20:00 Were you were like Jimmy Dean, rebel without a cause. 20:02 Without a cause, I just don't know 20:04 where I was gonna go. 20:05 But so that was a challenge, 20:08 but yeah, it was, it was an interesting ride. 20:11 So, Nathan found out that you had called a taxi 20:15 to pick you up and take you out of there. 20:17 Yes. 20:18 Where was the taxi going to take you? 20:20 I had like a hotel in Colfax where I was going to go. 20:25 And Dr. Nedley at one point, he caught wind of all this 20:30 and he's like, we know what you do at hotels, Christy. 20:32 We're not going to let you go there. 20:34 And so... 20:36 Oh, because you had tried to kill yourself in a hotel? 20:37 Yeah. 20:39 So he, he had, he's like, we're not going to let you go. 20:41 Now how many days into the program 20:43 did you call the taxi? 20:44 'Cause it's a 10-day program. 20:46 So was it the second day, third day? 20:48 That point there were some other times 20:49 that I had packed, 20:51 so I packed my suitcase and basically try to go. 20:56 But at one point Dr. Christina Harris, 20:59 I don't know if you've met her. 21:01 She tells her testimony at the program, 21:03 but she, her and I became like sisters. 21:06 I had said some things that stuck out to her 21:09 and the staff that she had also dealt with. 21:13 I said, I don't fit in. 21:14 I said, we're people with, well, she didn't say this, 21:17 but I was like, where all the people with tattoos, 21:18 I'm like, I can't relate. 21:20 Like, you know, I just want to relate to, 21:22 to people like that. 21:24 And so she was sent to my room and cried on my bed 21:28 because she did not want me to leave. 21:30 And at first I thought, this is crazy. 21:31 She doesn't even know me. Why does she care? 21:34 And she showed me empathy that day, 21:37 that someone loved me enough to say, 21:39 no, we're not going to let you do this. 21:41 And do you remember, was this the second day 21:42 or third day or fourth day or fifth day? 21:44 That specific instance, I think was the second day. 21:48 Second day, so early on. 21:49 And just to clarify for those that are there watching this, 21:53 the Weimar Nedley program, 21:54 it's 10 days 21:55 and there's about 20 people there. 21:57 And then they're surrounded 21:58 also by a very qualified group 22:03 of loving, very intelligent, 22:06 empathetic staff 22:08 who are watching over you at all times, 22:10 including Nathan Hyde and including... 22:14 Dr. Harris. 22:15 Dr. Harris and Daniel that's right, 22:19 and others. 22:20 And so they're always watching you. 22:21 And so somehow they intercepted your phone call 22:24 and found out about your phone call 22:26 to call a taxi and to go to a hotel. 22:29 And so Dr. Harris then came into your room 22:32 and pleaded with you not to do it. 22:34 Yeah. 22:35 This was a little further down the line. 22:37 With actually I... 22:39 There was nothing that was gonna work in my mind. 22:41 And so she called my counselor at the time. 22:44 I said, Flavio is not going to work. 22:46 I'm not going to work. 22:48 Dr. Nedley, you're going to have to get here 22:49 and help us out. 22:50 And so he came out of his office 22:52 and I had my bag packed. 22:53 I was on the third floor, lugging my suitcase down. 22:56 He stops me in the middle of landing there and says, 22:59 "Where are you going? What are you doing?" 23:01 And I'm like, "I'm going out. I'm going home." 23:03 And he's like, "Really?" 23:04 And so he's like, "Where are you planning to go?" 23:06 And he asked me a really poignant question 23:08 that I had no answer to. 23:10 He said, "What have we done here to harm you?" 23:13 And I had to stop and pause. And I said nothing. 23:17 And he said, "Where are you going to go?" 23:18 And I said, "Take me to the Psychiatric Institute 23:20 in Sacramento, I'll fit in there." 23:22 And he's, he had nothing to do 23:25 as a critical care physician. 23:27 He had to call over next of kin, 23:29 which is my mom and dad, 23:30 and let them know of a change in condition 23:32 like you would in a hospital setting. 23:34 And he half expected them to say, 23:36 you know, let her go. 23:37 We'll take her to the psych institute again. 23:39 And they said, 23:40 "No, Dr. Nedley, do everything you can 23:42 to keep her there." 23:43 So my parents were instrumental in this whole entire thing, 23:48 having the faith that I could get help. 23:51 And so they said to keep me there. 23:53 So it's by God's grace and my parents 23:55 and Dr. Nedley working together to keep me in this program. 23:59 So... Wow. 24:00 And again, just to clarify that 24:01 the program is a multifaceted program 24:05 where Dr. Nedley and others, 24:08 like Dr. Harris, Christina Harris 24:10 are giving lectures, 24:12 teaching about depression and anxiety and the causes 24:15 and the things to do to get out of this and suicidal issues. 24:20 So you have lectures. 24:21 You also have, you're given 24:23 a plant-based very healthy diet 24:27 for your meals. 24:28 Your phone is taken away 24:29 except for 45 minutes in the evening. 24:32 At least that's what it's supposed to be, 24:33 that you had, you had kind of circumvented that 24:36 with your phone. 24:37 Yeah. 24:39 And then you also have hydrotherapy, 24:40 which is hot and cold water treatments. 24:42 You get massage, 24:43 you have a very vigorous exercise program, 24:48 lights out at 9 o'clock. 24:50 I remember Daniel knocking on my door 24:54 at 5:30 every morning time to get up and exercise. 24:57 That's right. 24:58 And so, it's a very intense program 25:00 that, that deals with a whole host of things, 25:03 basically, to try to reboot your body 25:07 and your mind and your life along with the blood work, 25:09 and Dr. Nedley looking at all the details 25:11 that he sees in the charts and recommending supplements. 25:15 So it's this whole combination of, 25:17 it's kind of like a health boot camp 25:20 and all the, and the staff are all, 25:22 you know, committed to helping you get through this. 25:24 That's right. 25:26 That's what it's all about. Yeah, absolutely. 25:28 So Dr. Nedley stood there and stopped you? 25:31 He stopped me. Yeah. 25:33 I know, we kind of laugh about it today, 25:34 but you know, at the time 25:36 it was, I think I pulled something out of, 25:39 you know, I thought this was a voluntary program. 25:42 Let me talk to my lawyers and we... 25:45 Dr. Nedley and I have, 25:47 if we were sitting here we'd be laughing about it 25:48 and I've apologized 25:50 because I was just ridiculous. 25:52 And so he, you know, obviously had to do his due diligence 25:56 and call my family and all that. 25:58 So he was very gracious, allowed me to stay. 26:01 And Dr. Harris was like, 26:03 I asked her, I'm like, 26:05 well, what am I going to do in three days? 26:07 'Cause I had the three-day program 26:08 at that point. 26:09 She remembered the resurrection... 26:11 So it wasn't a 10-day program? 26:12 It was 10 day, but I wasn't engaged. 26:14 Like that was basically the pivotal point 26:17 is the last three days. 26:19 So that all happened with Dr. Nedley on the stairs 26:22 and wanting to leave on the seventh day. 26:24 And basically Dr. Nedley told his staff 26:27 though that legally we cannot keep her here. 26:30 She's in danger. 26:31 And you know, we don't have the staff 26:33 to keep her on site. 26:34 So we need to send her to Sacramento site, 26:36 unless you sleep outside her door 26:38 and take shifts 26:40 and cycle in and out and watch her all night. 26:43 And they did that. They did that? 26:44 Linda, the program director, it was Pilaar, one of the... 26:48 She helps with the program and then Christina Harris 26:52 and it might've been Priscilla, the nurse at the time, 26:54 actually, it might not have been Linda, 26:55 but the three of them basically cycled. 26:57 And they slipped outside your door? 26:59 They slept outside my door. 27:00 I had no idea this was happening. 27:02 Wow. Yeah. 27:03 I slept all night. 27:04 You know... Yeah. 27:06 I wonder how, I mean, I'm sure there's so many people 27:07 that struggle with these issues that if they had, 27:10 if they were in an environment surrounded by people 27:12 that were trying to help them, 27:14 you know, how many people would get out of this. 27:16 Yes, exactly. 27:17 And what we'll talk about at the end, 27:18 the last part three, 27:20 we'll go into the resources that are available to people 27:23 because they don't... 27:24 If they go through the 10- day program, 27:25 that's fantastic. 27:27 But some people can't afford that. 27:28 Right. And so there's other options. 27:30 There's a home program, there's a community program. 27:32 There's different programs, different ways. 27:34 So we'll get into all that. 27:36 But I want to, let's go back to, 27:40 you know, at what point did you feel like exercising 27:45 and eating a good diet 27:47 was beginning to actually help you to, 27:51 you know, when did you kind of get on board? 27:53 What was, I mean, Dr. Nedley stopped you, 27:55 but when did you, 27:56 when did you decide, 27:58 I really I'm going to give this a try? 28:01 It was the last three days. 28:03 I was very engaged, 28:05 but Dr. Nedley said, 28:06 well, you've had the three-day program. 28:07 You need to stay and you know... 28:10 What do you mean the three-day program? 28:11 You said, you've been there for seven days, right? 28:13 And then three days were the engaged days, right? 28:15 Right. 28:17 So, he considered really, like, 28:18 you went through a three-day program 28:19 because the first seven days you just weren't into it? 28:21 Exactly. 28:22 So I was trying to run 28:23 and I was coming off of medications. 28:25 And so I just wasn't able to rationally be present 28:29 for a lot of the, the lectures 28:30 just 'cause my mind was hurting. 28:33 Yeah. 28:34 And so he's like, you need to stay. 28:35 And so I told him, I would think about it. 28:37 Really I had a date with this millionaire 28:40 when I got home. 28:41 And so I was thinking about this 28:42 and I was going to go home. 28:44 So I told him, I think about it. 28:45 But there is a point in the program 28:46 where we have a burning 28:48 and basically you put all the different things 28:49 you may remember you put. 28:51 You can put misbeliefs and you can put medications. 28:53 It's whatever you want to put in there 28:55 that you just want to get out of your life. 28:56 Things you want to get rid of, 28:57 you write them on a piece of paper 28:59 and then burn them? 29:00 And then you put it on the fire 29:01 and you make you say it public testimony 29:03 and studies have shown that if you do that, 29:04 you're more likely to stick with it. 29:06 And so I stood up, I said, 29:07 I was going to put meat into the fire. 29:09 I was going to put my cigarettes into the fire 29:11 and I was going to put my relationship with men 29:13 into the fire. 29:14 And so I put all those things. 29:16 The staff was pretty happy about those. 29:18 They weren't expecting a lot for me. 29:20 They weren't sure 29:21 what I was even going to put in. 29:22 So they were happy about that. 29:24 But then I go home, 29:26 I have this date and I'm at home. 29:29 I'm jogging in my parents' neighborhood. 29:32 And I... So now you're done? 29:33 I'm done. 29:35 Now, you're subscribing at the end of the program, 29:36 you went home? 29:37 Yeah, and then I went home, so I didn't end up staying. 29:39 He's like, well, you know where we're at? 29:40 That's what Dr. Nedley said. 29:41 I said, okay. 29:43 So he was anticipating I would need to come back. 29:46 So I went home, I was following the program 29:47 as much as I could. 29:49 My parents saw a pretty big turnaround, 29:50 even in that short amount of time. 29:52 Now, did he take you off all the benzos 29:54 and all the meds that you were on 29:56 during those 10 days? 29:57 Everything, except Trazadone. 29:58 That was the last thing that he took me off of, 30:00 but all the other things I was off of. 30:02 And did you go through side effects? 30:04 Oh, yes, it was, it was rough. 30:07 A lot of feeling 30:11 kind of disconnected from my body. 30:13 It's kind of hard to articulate, 30:15 but just weird side effects. 30:17 I don't know if you can attest to what you had went through, 30:20 but just not feeling myself, just not thinking right just... 30:24 I mean, when I went through, 30:25 when I was there and I went through the... 30:26 I mentioned in part one 30:28 that I went four days without sleeping. 30:29 Yeah. 30:31 I think it was a part one, maybe I mentioned it part two, 30:32 four days without sleeping. 30:34 And I was getting off the benzo. 30:37 The Lorazepam was, was my benzo that Dr. Nedley took me off 30:41 and he warned me. 30:42 He said, you're going to have two weeks 30:43 where it's going to be a nightmare for you, 30:45 but you'll get through it. 30:46 Or maybe he said 10 days, 10 days or two weeks, 30:48 but you'll get through it. 30:49 And during those, 30:51 during the time when I was withdrawing 30:52 from that benzo, 30:53 I mean, I had all kinds of suicidal thoughts. 30:58 And I just, I remember kneeling and praying and just saying, 31:01 God, I'm right on the edge. 31:02 I'm on the edge of just going into a psych ward. 31:05 I've never had this happen to me before, 31:06 but my mind is just, 31:08 and I had all kinds of The devil, 31:11 I think, was putting all these thoughts in my head. 31:14 I'd get up in the morning after I hadn't slept all night. 31:16 And I'd hear this voice that says, ha-ha-ha, 31:18 you know, see you tonight, Wohlberg, see you, I got you. 31:20 I got you, Wohlberg, you're mine, you're mine, 31:23 all these thoughts. 31:24 And then I had this picture of my kids 31:26 on my, in my room, on my desk, my dresser 31:30 of Seth and Abby looking at me. 31:32 And I remember thinking to myself, 31:33 I can't kill myself. 31:35 What am I gonna do to my kids? 31:37 What am I gonna do to my wife? 31:38 You know, they're going to be devastated 31:40 if I take my life. 31:41 So I kept saying, no, no, no, I'm not going to do this. 31:44 And I do want to talk about more at some point 31:46 how it was, it was, it was promises. 31:49 There were promises in the Bible 31:51 that I would just cling to for my life. 31:54 You know, like the Lord is my shepherd, 31:56 I shall not want. 31:58 He makes me lie down in green pastures. 32:00 He leads me beside the still waters. 32:02 He restores my soul 32:04 and I would hold on to these promises 32:06 that God, You got to do this. 32:07 You got to help me. 32:08 You got to hold on to me, You got to restore my soul. 32:10 You got to bring my mind back to me 32:12 'cause I'm just going through the worst thing 32:15 I've ever been through. 32:17 And I kept saying, I'm not going to kill myself 32:18 because I don't want to hurt my family. 32:21 And Lord's just gotta bring me through this, 32:23 and praise the Lord He did. 32:28 So you went the program 32:30 and you, then you went home 32:33 and that's where things improved, right? 32:35 It improved to a point 32:39 because I was trying to keep up with the programs. 32:41 I was like jogging towards one of the physician's houses 32:44 that Don McIntosh, he's the spiritual advisor. 32:47 Yeah. You had spiritual counseling there too. 32:49 You had a true therapy from a counselor, 32:52 and then you had a spiritual counselor 32:55 pointing you to God's love and His Word 32:59 and that He loves you no matter what you're going through, 33:01 even though you're in the midst of all this. 33:03 And my thoughts were telling me, 33:04 you know, that the Lord doesn't love me anymore. 33:06 I've gone too far. 33:08 I'm on the devil side. 33:11 All kinds of thoughts. 33:12 And like I said, these Bible promises, 33:14 I just kept clinging to these. 33:15 And I kept telling myself, 33:16 I can't rely on my mind. 33:18 I can't rely on my thoughts. 33:20 I've got to rely on these thoughts. 33:22 These are true. Right. 33:23 When Jesus says, 33:24 "Come to Me, I will give you rest. 33:26 Take My yoke upon you learn of me." 33:28 And God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son 33:31 in Jeremiah 31, I think it's verse 3. 33:35 Jeremiah 31, 31:3. 33:37 "I loved you with an everlasting love." 33:40 Romans 15:13 about 33:42 "The God of hope 33:44 will fill you with all joy and peace in believing." 33:47 There was all these different promises. 33:49 Micah 7:8, that says, 33:50 "When I sit in darkness, 33:52 the Lord will be a light to me." 33:54 And these promises, 33:56 this is what I clung to 33:58 with a little bit of faith that I had, 34:00 that God still loved me. 34:02 He still cared for me 34:04 and He was going to bring me through. 34:05 Amen. 34:07 And did you go through anything like that? 34:08 I started to get interested in the Lord 34:12 when Priscilla, the nurse of the program 34:14 gave me Bible studies... 34:16 During the 10 days? 34:17 It was the second half of when I came back. 34:21 So you didn't just go through it once? 34:23 I had some extra credit. 34:26 Had some extra credit. Yeah. 34:29 But I did go through what you're saying though, 34:31 that, that spiritual darkness 34:33 and looking back on it now 34:36 I see it as a great controversy experience 34:39 and a lot of participants do come in 34:41 with that same battle and it's a spiritual battle. 34:45 And I'm not saying that's the answer. 34:48 I mean, there's a lot of brain chemistry and things, 34:50 but Jesus is a solution 34:52 to any of our problems here on this earth. 34:55 And to not accept that 34:56 is doing oneself a great disservice 35:00 because He's the one that, 35:01 He's the only one that rescues us 35:03 and He promises to save us. 35:05 And so that was pivotal in my recovery 35:08 was accepting the Lord. 35:10 And was that, so there was the first 10 days 35:12 then you went home. 35:14 When did you reaccept the Lord? 35:16 Or when did you discover that 35:17 this was really a spiritual battle? 35:19 Because you said that in the last time that when you, 35:23 the last program went, that when you got to Weimar, 35:26 you were not interested in God, you had left the Lord, 35:29 you had left the church, you weren't praying anymore. 35:31 Right. 35:32 You had all these bad habits 35:34 and you weren't really interested in God. 35:35 That's right. 35:36 So at what point did you start to think, 35:38 well, I'm going to give you another chance. 35:41 I see His hand over the whole entire thing. 35:46 But like kind of back to 35:48 what led me back for the extra credit. 35:50 And then that kind of factored in. 35:51 And how long ago was that? 35:52 How far when you, when you left and you went back to Texas, 35:55 how many, was it days, weeks, months 35:57 until you went back to Weimar? 35:59 It was about a week. 36:00 I think it was about seven days. 36:01 And so, I was trying to do all this stuff on my own though, 36:04 thinking, ah, you know, I've got all this program, 36:06 algorithm, I've got this figured out, 36:08 you know, I could do this at home 36:09 and not realizing that I still had more work to do. 36:12 And I believe as a physician and I'm not. 36:14 And I was trying to go on my own understanding 36:16 and do what Christy wanted 36:17 and not what the professionals recommend. 36:19 I don't recommend that. 36:21 But basically I was jogging towards the doctor's house 36:24 that Pastor Don had tried to set me up 36:27 with because nutritionally, 36:28 they do a lot of the lifestyle, 36:31 you know, plant-based diet and things like that. 36:32 And so... 36:34 This doctor was in Texas, right? 36:35 Yeah, and he lived in my friend's neighborhood. 36:37 So, he set you up, doesn't mean he was trying to connect you 36:38 to as the boyfriend? 36:39 No. No. 36:41 And he was trying to basically have them be influence. 36:42 Connect you with the resource. Yeah. 36:44 For you in, so from Ken Northern California, 36:48 Pastor Don connected you with the doctor in Texas 36:50 that you could... 36:52 Right. So then I'd have more resource. 36:53 Yeah, more resource. 36:55 And so I was running and I see his house 36:57 and I turned around the other direction. 36:59 So I'm like, I don't want to go there. 37:01 That reminds me of Weimar. 37:02 And so I go back to, 37:04 there's a water tower that says Bethesda, 37:06 and as I'm turning the corner, it says SDA. 37:10 I'm like, okay, God, I can't outrun you 37:13 because wherever You go, there You are. 37:14 This was in Texas? And this was in Texas. 37:16 And so just everything God was just saying, 37:19 just go back, just go back to Weimar 37:21 that's, where you had health and healing. 37:23 So when you said SDA, 37:24 that means Seventh-day Adventist? 37:26 Seventh-day Adventist. 37:27 And you actually grew up in the Seventh-day Adventist. 37:28 And Dr. Nedley's the Seventh-day 37:30 Adventist physician. 37:31 So you saw that onto, 37:32 running to the other doctor's house 37:34 in the neighborhood. 37:36 You saw these little signs 37:37 that you thought this is God talking to me. 37:39 Yes. I need to go back. 37:41 Okay, all right. Go back. 37:42 And so by God's grace and Dr. Nedley being gracious, 37:45 they had me come back. 37:46 And so I got to stay another two weeks. 37:49 In that two weeks, 37:51 the nurse gave me Bible studies. 37:52 And this is kind of how that factored in. 37:53 Dr. Harris? This was Priscilla. 37:55 Oh, Priscilla. 37:56 Priscilla, she's actually in Loma Linda 37:58 getting her doctorate right now, 38:00 but she was the nurse of the program 38:01 that I went through. 38:03 And her and I, her and I to this day 38:04 are like sisters as well, 38:05 because I do believe a brother is born out of adversity. 38:08 This is in Proverbs. 38:10 And I claim that 38:11 'cause some of my best friends 38:12 are as a result of some of these tumultuous times. 38:16 God even blessed that. 38:18 So you had Bible studies the second time, part two? 38:20 Yes. Part two. 38:21 And what were the... 38:23 What were the topics and what were, 38:24 what really affected you the most? 38:27 The sanctuary message is what really brought me back. 38:31 She had some pretty in-depth Bible studies 38:33 and even just seeing the simple outline 38:36 of how God wanted to come as close as He could to us, 38:40 although He couldn't co-exist with sin, 38:42 but He wanted to be that close to us 38:44 because He loves us that much, 38:45 that He did everything He could to be that close 38:48 and invite us into His house. 38:50 And that whole model... 38:51 In the sanctuary, the sanctuary, 38:53 being the temple service in the Old Testament 38:55 and you, you saw the model and you saw, 38:58 God wants me inside that temple spiritually 39:01 so I can recover. 39:03 Right, right. 39:04 And that just the whole model just made sense, 39:06 practical sense. 39:08 And it's, and so that brought me back 39:10 and then I've asked to be baptized. 39:12 And so I got baptized on Moses rock there at Weimar, 39:15 dedicated my heart and my life over to God. 39:18 And I've never looked back 39:20 and I praise God for that experience. 39:22 And I mean, there's ups and downs. 39:24 Life is not perfect. 39:25 You know, I still struggle. 39:27 But compared to where I was compared to today, 39:31 it's a dramatic change. 39:32 And I give all glory to God 39:34 for the way that He had His hand over 39:35 that whole entire thing, 39:37 so it's His grace. 39:39 So, I'm curious, what, what was the point 39:42 where you realized from when you first got there? 39:45 You said you didn't want God or any of this 39:48 to the point that you realized that 39:50 there, this is a spiritual battle 39:52 that I'm going through. 39:54 This is not just a chemical thing. 39:57 You know, the cloud I've been under my depression, 39:59 whatever else, the suicidal thoughts 40:01 that this is all a battle, like you said between, 40:04 it was a great controversy between God and Satan 40:07 and you were in this war. 40:09 You're not just dealing with, you know, flesh and blood, 40:11 but you're in a war. 40:13 Right. 40:14 So, when did you, was, did you realize that 40:16 when you, when you saw SDA that you thought, 40:18 you know, God's talking to me, 40:20 or when did you realize that? 40:22 You know, I don't know 40:23 if I was ever consciously aware 40:25 during that process, 40:26 but then hearing the backstory from the staff 40:31 and it's hard to see outside of oneself. 40:34 And so it was difficult to know how to articulate that, 40:37 but what they said, 40:39 that when they saw how difficult things were 40:42 and how, you know, 40:45 these things that would help, 40:47 you know, if one is not willing to do these things, 40:50 I mean, there's something that's disconnected there. 40:52 So they prayed, they pray over participants. 40:56 I mean, and just knowing that now working in the program, 40:59 we'll get together as a staff 41:00 and have prayer over individuals specifically, 41:04 and then seeing God's hand 41:05 and how He brings people out of that darkness 41:07 and breaks the chains 41:09 because Satan promises, you do, do whatever you want, 41:11 you know, do your own will. 41:13 And then he snares you because it has a hook on it. 41:17 Anything addictive, it has a hook, 41:19 it's going to snare you 41:20 and it's not going to lead you to life or to a solution, 41:23 and God says, 41:25 follow these commandments, follow Me. 41:26 And He wants us to be happy. 41:28 And there's so many other things we can't do. 41:29 It's just 10. 41:31 And so He wants us to follow Him out of love. 41:34 And these are boundaries and guidelines of our life 41:37 that bring us health and happiness 41:39 and to not do them is Satan's trick that, 41:42 you know, something better is going to be beyond them, 41:44 but they're not. 41:45 So it just was a real understanding in, 41:48 you know, it's a daily walk 41:50 and recommitting to God every day 41:52 and seeing where He leads. 41:54 So it's a struggle, I think, as you said, 41:56 I think you had referenced how these are, 41:59 these are not new to a certain man 42:00 that we all struggle with something. 42:02 And so we need to help one another. 42:05 That's right. 42:06 So when you say it's just 10, 42:08 you're referring to the Ten Commandments. 42:09 Ten Commandments, yeah. 42:10 Right that, yeah. 42:12 And the basic idea is that 42:15 God has given us Ten Commandments 42:16 and following those Ten Commandments 42:19 are what's best for us. 42:21 Right. 42:22 We function better when we don't lie, 42:24 when we, you know, we're faithful 42:28 morally sexually to our spouses, 42:31 or if we're not married 42:33 you know, putting God first, 42:34 not anything idols, no idols, 42:36 honoring our parents, 42:38 just those basic principles. 42:39 And ultimately God's laws are law of love. 42:41 Love Him and love your neighbor as yourself. 42:43 And that's kind of like the safety zone. 42:45 And when we stay in the safety zone 42:48 we're much less likely, 42:52 you know, to encounter the devil, 42:53 although the devil hits us anyway, 42:55 but we have that strength to say no. 42:57 Right. 42:59 But, but when we step outside of God's will, 43:01 then we're asking for trouble 43:04 and we then get exposed 43:06 to a lot more of the enemy's attacks. 43:10 And he messes us up 43:12 and then the good news of the gospel 43:14 is that Jesus has come 43:16 to take all those sins where we've stepped out 43:19 and He's paid the price, 43:21 He's suffered for us 43:22 because He loves us anyway. 43:24 Right. 43:25 And then He wants to forgive our sins, 43:27 come into our hearts, change our lives, 43:28 and then bring us back into the safety zone. 43:31 Right. 43:32 Right? Right. 43:33 That's the way it is. 43:35 Yeah. Yeah. 43:36 So for me, when I got to Weimar, 43:40 I mean, I didn't have to, 43:41 I didn't get there thinking to myself. 43:43 I don't want God. I don't want to be here. 43:45 I was craving help. 43:49 And I believe I believed in Him and I still believe in Him, 43:54 but it was the worst crisis of my life. 43:56 And I just, I didn't understand 43:57 why I had insomnia and I couldn't sleep. 43:59 And then I went on the medications 44:01 to try to help me sleep and they made things worse. 44:03 And then I went on the Lorazepam 44:05 and then I told Dr. Nedley about that on the phone. 44:07 And then he said, you need to come to Weimar 44:09 and we need to help you with this. 44:10 So when I got there, I knew I was in a great controversy. 44:13 I mean, I knew the battle was on 44:14 between God and the devil, 44:15 between right and wrong. 44:17 And I felt it just intensely intense, intense, 44:20 like, I mentioned 44:22 I would hear these voices inside my head, 44:24 you know, saying, ha-ha-ha, 44:25 Wohlberg, you're mine now, I've got you. 44:27 You're never getting out of this. 44:29 And I kept saying, no, no, no, I don't believe that. 44:32 I can't believe that. 44:33 And I just would rely on the Bible, 44:36 on God's promises. 44:37 And, you know, one of the things 44:40 that somebody wrote recently 44:43 that I want to address is the issue of, 44:47 you know, why doesn't or why, if God is good and loving, 44:52 why does He allow His people to go through these things? 44:57 And why doesn't He just take them away 45:01 sometimes right away? 45:03 Yeah. 45:04 Do you have any thoughts on that? 45:06 And also, are there specific verses 45:09 that really meant a lot to you 45:11 as you, you know, went through this journey? 45:14 Yeah, I do have some, 45:16 I have a couple that I still cling to, 45:19 to this day. 45:21 But some of the thoughts, 45:23 I guess, referring to Spirit or Prophecy, 45:25 there is something that resonated with me. 45:26 And I believe it's in Ministry of Healing 45:29 that it talks about 45:30 how God doesn't just put worthless ore into the fire. 45:34 He tries His precious jewels under the fire of affliction. 45:38 And so you... 45:41 My thought is, I don't believe God 45:43 is the cause of anything negative. 45:46 I believe that is a opposing force at work, 45:49 and that would be what I call Satan. 45:51 And so, there's this controversy, 45:54 it's a very real battle. 45:55 We battle not against flesh and blood, 45:57 but against principalities and things in high places. 45:59 And by putting Ephesians 6, 46:02 armor on, we have this protection, 46:05 but there's also things that 46:08 even like in the story of Job, 46:10 He allowed Job to go through these things. 46:12 And He called upon Job knowing that 46:15 he would still choose Him in the end. 46:17 And so like, Daniel went into the fire, 46:20 even if God did not save him, 46:21 he still would purpose his heart to the Lord. 46:24 So there's a real, a real battle. 46:27 But I guess in saying that it would be more, 46:29 I'm thinking of like, 46:30 He's trying His precious tools into the fire, 46:33 it's building our characters. 46:35 That's my thoughts were. 46:36 What are your thoughts on that? 46:38 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 46:39 I finally learned, it took me a while, 46:42 like there's one verse. 46:44 There actually is a lot of verses, 46:45 but let me share a verse in 1 Peter, 46:49 this verse really helped me 46:50 because I went through this for months 46:54 and I kept, you know, thinking, 46:55 Lord, why are You allowing me to go through this? 46:59 If I am surrendered to You, I'm trusting You. 47:04 Why is this still here? 47:05 Why am I still depressed? 47:08 Why am I still... 47:10 I don't have an appetite. I'm losing weight. 47:13 I'm not sleeping, like I need to be sleeping. 47:15 I'm still having thoughts 47:16 that the enemy is harassing me to take my life. 47:21 You know, I don't understand why this is happening. 47:27 And there, it's been a number of verses 47:29 that really helped me, 47:30 but one of them 47:32 was 1 Peter 5:10. 47:37 It says, 47:38 "But the God of all grace 47:40 who has called us to His eternal glory 47:43 by Christ Jesus, 47:45 after you have suffered for a while, 47:50 He will make you perfect, 47:54 He will establish you, 47:55 He will strengthen you, and He will settle you." 47:59 And I read that and I thought it says 48:01 after you have suffered for a while. 48:04 So I thought, well, 48:06 I don't know how long a while is, 48:08 but I need to trust Him in the midst of this, 48:12 because this is not going to go on forever. 48:15 It's a while. 48:17 And I've concluded that God allows us 48:20 to go through these sufferings 48:23 as you said, to develop our characters, 48:26 to teach us, 48:27 to trust Him even in a crisis, 48:31 even when things go south, 48:33 even when things are really bad. 48:35 And I believe that when the final crisis comes 48:39 that those who have learned this lesson 48:42 will be able to trust God, 48:43 no matter what, no matter what happens, 48:46 we need to be able to trust Him. 48:48 And that He ultimately that He's good 48:52 that He cares for us. 48:53 He wants what's best for us. Right. 48:55 He's gonna bring us through this 48:57 and we're going to learn lessons 48:59 all along the way. 49:01 And when it's all over, 49:04 we'll be glad that we went through this. 49:07 I mean, I've been through, 49:08 I mean, to me, it was, as you went through, 49:10 I, my struggles were just to me, 49:12 they were cataclysmic. 49:15 And, but now that the Lord has brought me through them 49:17 and my mind has snapped back 49:19 and, you know, I can get up 49:20 and go jogging with you this morning. 49:23 And, you know, I've got a wonderful relationship 49:26 with my wife and my children 49:28 and I, you know, 49:29 things are going good right now. 49:31 And I look back and I just say, 49:34 you know, it was, it was worth it. 49:35 I wouldn't trade it 49:37 because the lessons I've learned 49:38 so that the next time, whatever comes my way, 49:41 some terrible thing or whatever, 49:43 I'll be able hopefully by the grace of God 49:45 just to trust Him and say, 49:46 Lord, we've been through this before, 49:48 and I don't know how long it's going to take 49:50 for this to change, 49:52 but I'm going to trust You anyway. 49:54 Yeah. 49:57 And so I just, I think the bedrock issue 50:00 of whether God is good 50:03 is, is just fundamental 50:05 that He is a good God 50:08 and that He wants what's best for us. 50:09 That's right. 50:10 And so that's, you have that same conviction? 50:13 I feel the same. 50:15 This may sound counterintuitive 50:17 and may not make a lot of sense, 50:18 but I'm grateful for my depression. 50:20 I would not have been in that program. 50:23 It changed my life. 50:25 I've had promotions at work by being transparent. 50:29 I've had actually better life satisfaction. 50:34 I'm happy. I find joy in little things. 50:37 You know, today we went for that run. 50:40 I was super happy. 50:41 My serotonin probably went up to here 50:43 just watching the sunrise, 50:45 I'm thinking, wow, God, 50:46 look at Your blessing in abundant. 50:48 It's a snowfall and there was some deer 50:51 that ran across the path, 50:53 and there's just so many good things 50:55 to think about. 50:56 And I'm like, ah, just, 50:58 there's so many beautiful things 51:00 to be grateful for and to give thanks for. 51:01 So I'm just so grateful for that experience, 51:04 not for the suffering, 51:05 but I do believe it led me to better things. 51:08 And so Romans 8:28 is the promise that I think of, 51:11 that all things work for the glory of those 51:13 who love the Lord. 51:14 Jeremiah 29:11, 51:15 "I have plans to prosper." 51:18 Plans for a hope and a future. 51:20 And that's true for each one of us. 51:21 My case is not a special case. 51:24 God wants that for each one of us. 51:26 And so, that's so hopeful. 51:28 And I just, I'm so thankful for that. 51:31 So... 51:32 Yeah, Jeremiah 29:11 was a big text for me too. 51:35 'Cause it says, I know the thoughts, 51:37 I think toward you says the Lord, 51:39 thoughts of peace. 51:41 And when I'm having all these thoughts 51:42 and the devil, he tries to, 51:44 I'm convinced that a lot of it is, 51:46 is Satan and his angels. 51:47 And I know that there's a blending between, 51:50 you know, our thinking and his temptations. 51:53 And it's hard to kind of, you know, 51:55 gets kind of murky as to where one ends 51:57 and where the other begins. 51:58 But I know that the enemy is involved in all this. 52:01 And Dr. Nedley once said, 52:03 when you add depression to antidepressants, 52:06 you said, that's the devil's playground. 52:08 Oh, definitely. 52:09 And honestly I remember that. 52:10 And so, you know, when you're going through all this, 52:14 we have to realize that there's a spiritual battle 52:16 and that God is the one that can get us through this, 52:18 that we need, we need God, 52:20 we're fighting an enemy and we need strength. 52:23 And a lot of times this battle is manifested in our thoughts 52:26 where we're thinking negative thoughts. 52:29 And so like, at Weimar, they teach you 52:31 to counter the negative thoughts with truth. 52:35 And the truth is what the Word says. 52:37 So like the verse that you said, 52:39 where God says, I know the thoughts, 52:40 I think toward you. 52:42 These are thoughts of peace and not of evil, 52:44 to give you hope in the future. 52:45 And a lot of times I'd be thinking 52:47 the negative thoughts. 52:48 And then I think, no these are, these are not God's thought, 52:50 these are just my thoughts. 52:52 And so I'd rely on that verse 52:53 that says, God says, I know the thoughts, 52:55 I think towards you, thoughts of peace. 52:57 Is that on your booklet? 52:59 I don't remember if that text is there or not, 53:01 but there's a lot of, a lot of Bible verses, 53:03 a lot of stories, a lot of struggle. 53:07 And then there's the victory that God gives us. 53:10 So, any other promises 53:12 that are precious to you in Jeremiah, 53:14 you said 29:11 is it really important to you? 53:17 I claim them daily. 53:18 There's a resource online 53:20 I believe it's revivalformission.org 53:23 that Melody Mason 53:24 is our prayer minister at the GC, 53:27 but she has a resource 53:28 that can be printed out for free online. 53:30 And people can cut these out. I've done this. 53:33 And then you refer to them in the morning 53:35 and it sets the morning. 53:36 It sets the tone and there are promises, 53:38 they're like blank checks for His kids. 53:40 And so we can claim these 53:41 and trust that He's going to honor them. 53:44 So, it's, there's not another specific one though per se, 53:47 but that's a resource that I use. 53:48 He promises, yeah, I have, I think I showed you this. 53:51 And I have my, my little one of the things 53:54 when I went through Weimar. 53:56 They've recommended that 53:57 I get these little three by five cards 53:59 and I write different thoughts 54:02 that are good thoughts 54:04 and different sayings and different promises. 54:07 So like, I've got this one, Luke 10:18, where Jesus said, 54:11 "I've given you power to tread on serpents and scorpions 54:14 and over all the power of the enemy 54:16 and nothing shall by any means hurt you." 54:19 Amen. So I've got that one there. 54:21 And I have other, other little things, 54:23 like, one of them says that 54:25 don't expect instant healing, trust in grace, 54:30 grow in grace 54:31 take one day at a time. 54:34 And so these little, I have all kinds of little... 54:36 Those are valuable. Little things. 54:39 Yeah. 54:41 I do trust Jesus, even though my faith is imperfect. 54:45 Here's a quote from Ministry of Healing, 54:47 "In every trial, Christ will give us help." 54:50 And I just went through these one by one. 54:53 Here's another one that says, 54:55 I don't like it when I lose sleep, 54:56 but Jesus still loves me. 54:58 His grace is sufficient. This too shall pass. 55:00 And He uses trials to teach us to trust Him. 55:04 So I've got all my little... 55:06 Did they give you little cards like this 55:07 when you went through? 55:08 They didn't do that when I came through the program, 55:10 I kind of wished they did, 55:11 but they're doing that now. 55:13 That's standard. 55:14 That's very helpful. 55:16 Yeah. 55:17 So the bottom line is we're kind of getting down 55:19 toward the end here for this part two, 55:23 is that one of the greatest resources 55:24 that we've learned 55:26 that brought us both through is the promises of God. 55:30 It's His Word. We're in a battle. 55:31 We're in a great controversy between good and evil. 55:34 And God loves us, and He wants to help us. 55:37 He wants to lead us, lead us through. 55:40 So I'll just read, I'll just share this text again 55:43 from 1 Peter 5:10. 55:46 It says, 55:47 "The God of all grace 55:50 who has called us to His eternal glory 55:52 by Christ Jesus. 55:53 After you have suffered for a while, 55:56 will himself make you perfect 55:59 and establish you 56:01 and strengthen you and settle you." 56:03 There's another verse. 56:04 I'm sure you are familiar with this one in John 10:10, 56:07 where Jesus is talking. 56:09 And he said, 56:10 "That the thief does not come, 56:12 but to steal and to kill and to destroy." 56:14 The thief, being the devil. 56:15 But then he says, 56:17 "I have come that you might have life 56:20 and that you might have it more abundantly." 56:23 And that tells us that 56:24 the character of Satan is to destroy us. 56:26 And the character of Jesus 56:27 is to give us life more abundantly, 56:29 to help us to heal us and to save us. 56:31 So we recommend Jesus Christ. 56:33 He loves you and whatever you're going through, 56:36 He'll bring you through. 56:37 Thank you. 56:41 This three-part series, 56:42 Finding Hope in Depression and Despair 56:44 is now available on DVD from White Horse Media. 56:47 To order simply call 1-800-782-4253 56:51 or order online at WhiteHorseMedia.com 56:54 To learn even more about how you can overcome anxiety, 56:57 fear, discouragement, and depression, 56:59 White Horse Media recommends 57:00 these two easy to read pocket books, 57:03 Help for the Hopeless, and Secrets of Inner Peace. 57:06 In Help for the Hopeless Steve Wohlberg reveals 57:09 personal details about 57:10 an awful trial he passed through 57:11 during the summer of 2017. 57:14 How God brought him 57:15 through the horror of deep darkness 57:17 and how you can find help too whatever your struggles. 57:20 In Secrets of Inner Peace, 57:21 Steve explains how deep lasting peace 57:24 is only possible 57:25 through discovering the love and goodness of Jesus Christ, 57:28 the Prince of Peace 57:29 and through the power of His Word. 57:31 Both of these small pocket books 57:32 are easy to read, heartwarming, encouraging, 57:35 and great for sharing with your loved ones friends, 57:37 and even with strangers. 57:38 This three-part DVD series 57:40 Finding Hope in Depression and Despair. 57:42 And both of these enlightening pocket books 57:44 are now available from White Horse Media 57:46 by calling 1-800-782-4253. 57:50 That's 1-800-782-4253. 57:53 A fully illustrated eBook version 57:55 of Secrets of Inner Peace 57:57 can also be purchased immediately on the website. 57:59 SecretsOfInnerPeace.net 58:02 That's SecretsOfInnerPeace.net |
Revised 2021-06-10