Participants:
Series Code: GFF
Program Code: GFF000011S
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00:01 ♪ ♪ Subodh K. Pandit, M.D.
00:55 Now we are in Session Ten overall with the second session 01:00 comparing the founders. In this one I'd like to go a little 01:05 slower so go with me as we take the steps. I asked this question 01:12 and I'm going to read it out to you. How did your life, 01:16 Mr. Founder, 01:17 match with your own teachings? Did you provide the message in 01:21 word only or in actual practice in life? You wanted the people 01:26 to bring their behavior and practice into line with your 01:29 teachings. Did you do that yourself? That is the question. 01:34 And I consider this to be a true acid test of your claims. So you 01:40 know what I was trying to do was check and see whether the 01:45 meaning of what they were saying was not only in their words but 01:50 actually in their lives I really felt this was a true test to 01:55 these founders. Now because I'm trying to look for faults it 02:02 it will be a little negative in that sense. I don't mean to put 02:06 any of the religions down. I do not mean to say that the 02:09 doctrines and philosophies are are false or negative or bad. 02:13 What I mean to say is that we are asking a very specific 02:17 question and because of the nature of the question I had to 02:21 look for the faults in each of the founders. So I had to comb 02:26 through the writings to do that. And I don't mean, once again, 02:30 I do not mean to put you down, the other religions. I just 02:34 mean to ask this question as an inquirer. So join me in asking 02:39 this question: Mr. Founder, did your life match your own 02:45 teachings? Here's Hinduism. "When a man gives up all 02:49 varieties of desire for sense gratification...then he is said 02:54 to be in pure...transcendental consciousness." "A person who is 02:59 not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires can alone 03:02 achieve peace." These words, sense gratification and flow of 03:09 desires actually mean sensuality and sex. If you read all these 03:15 religious writings invariably, sometimes quite explicitly, they 03:21 do describe that. And that is because it is understood even 03:26 from the truth of each religion that this question of sensuality 03:31 and sexuality is a big part of our lives. Nobody escapes that. 03:37 But what they do say is that no matter how powerful the effects 03:42 of that part of our life, we must not let it dominate. 03:47 In other words, it's there for a good reason but if it gets to be 03:51 too much then we cannot carry on the true part that the founders 03:59 are trying to describe for us. In other words, yes, it is there 04:03 but do not let it dominate. Now with that in mind, let's see 04:08 what the words are in the description of some of the 04:12 Hindus. Here is what Gautama Buddha said as a Hindu, when he 04:17 was a Hindu, "...Our Holy books tell us of gods, sages and 04:22 heroes who, though high-minded were addicted to sensuous 04:27 passions." Now that is quite a confession to make. And it is in 04:33 writing. They were addicted. Not only did they indulge but they 04:37 were addicted to it. Do you know one of the glaring examples of 04:42 this, of going against this teaching, that you must not let 04:47 it dominate, keep it down to its place, is in the life of Krishna 04:53 who was the eighth incarnate of the god Vishnu. And in some 04:58 circles he is called the supreme personality of the godhead. 05:01 Now in his life in the traditional writings they 05:05 describe him as being playful. But the word playful does not 05:10 really depict the true picture. When you read what really 05:14 happens it is ahh picture that is questionable. You see he grew 05:22 up in a place called Randovna and his companions were only 05:27 girl cowherds called Gopis. He was the only guy. And he used to 05:33 play his flute beautifully. So in his treatment of the girls 05:40 and his behavior with the girls he would play the flute and the 05:44 traditional writings say that he would seduce them. That is not 05:49 a good picture. He described yes, playful, but the 05:54 playfulness was not really all that innocent. There was a time 05:58 when the girls had gone for a bath to the river, he went there 06:02 and picked all their clothes and climbed up a tree and he said 06:05 If anybody wants your clothes come and get them from me one by 06:08 one. Whoa. That's not a good picture. He also had his 06:14 favorite one called Radha and here is what a traditional 06:18 writing says: When Ayana Ghosh [who is the husband of Radha] 06:24 heard of Radha's adultery, he went in search of the couple. 06:28 [So who is Radha with? Krishna] However, Krishna assumed the form 06:33 of a goddess and they thereby escaped Ayagosha's wrath." 06:37 There are multiple such stories of his behavior. In fact, in a 06:42 royal meeting of opposing forces in those days they would meet 06:47 together before the war, and chide each other and challenge 06:51 each other. During one of those royal meetings Shishupala, one 06:56 of the opposing princes turned to him and chided him, chided 07:02 Krishna, for his behavior with women, for taking their clothes. 07:06 Why? Because that was part of the story that was spread about. 07:09 So he really did not keep up to that strong teaching that you 07:17 have to push it aside so that you can be in pure 07:20 transcendental consciousness. In some traditional writings he is 07:24 claimed to have had 16,000 wives Now even if this number is only 07:29 figurative, it does confess to his way of life. He is said to 07:34 have fathered 180,000 sons! That is not in line with the 07:39 principle of abstaining from sensual activities so that you 07:44 have the mind focused only on transcendental meditation. So it 07:50 doesn't look like the life had come up to the teaching in real 07:55 practice. How about Buddhism? Gautama Buddha said these words: 08:00 "Here venerable gentlemen are the four rules about the 08:04 offenses which deserve expulsion Expulsion from the monastery. 08:08 Number one: If a monk should have sexual intercourse with 08:12 anyone. The other rules were if you stole, or if you murdered, 08:18 or if you claimed to have supernatural powers when you 08:22 didn't, then these four rules would cause expulsion from the 08:27 monastery. So the first one was no sex. But how about him and 08:32 his own life? The fact is he was married and he did have a 08:36 son. So he did have sex. The other story is really in the 08:42 traditional writings. You see his father was a king, His name 08:46 was Suddhodana. His mother was a queen. So he was a prince. When 08:50 he was to be born a prophet from the foothills of the Himalayas 08:55 his name was Asceta came to the father and said you're going to 08:59 have a son and your son will either be a great world emperor 09:04 and ruler or he will leave town and go into the world looking 09:07 for light, half-clad, naked and an ascetic life. Which one would 09:12 you like? Well the father said I want him to be a prince and a 09:16 king and an emperor. Well Asceta then told him on this 09:20 condition he might become a world emperor; if you make sure 09:25 that he does not set his eyes on old age, disease, suffering, 09:31 or death. So the father, King Suddhodana, took up the 09:35 challenge. He'd built palaces, different palaces, in which he 09:41 placed Gautama Buddha. At that time his name was Siddhartha, 09:45 the son. And he did not let him come down to the palace grounds 09:49 or the town because he might set his eyes on those forbidden 09:53 things. So from the age of 16 to age of 29 he was kept on the 09:59 upper stories of the palaces, never allowed to come down. 10:02 Now how do you think they kept him busy and entertained out 10:06 there? Well we don't have to guess. The writings say this: 10:11 He was kept busy up there, entertained with women minstrels 10:16 "They entertained him with wanton swaying...butterfly 10:20 kisses and seductive glances. Thus he became a captive of 10:23 these women who were versed in the subject of sensuous 10:27 enjoyment and indefatigable in sexual pleasure." For how long? 10:32 Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after 10:36 year for 13 years. This was the story that was going on. And 10:40 that's why in later years when he was looking for light. By the 10:44 way, at the age of 29 he left that. Walked out into wilderness 10:49 looking for light exactly as the prophet had said. So this is 10:54 what he said while he was looking for light: 10:56 "In fulfillment of my vows I have plucked out the hair of my 11:00 head and the hair of my beard ...have gone down to the water 11:04 punctually thrice before nightfall to wash away the evil 11:09 within." I didn't use the word evil. It is right there in the 11:15 writings. And if he had to go punctually three times a day 11:20 to wash away the evil then that evil must have been a certain 11:26 good amount. You wash it once still there. Wash it again, it's 11:32 still there. Three time a day. In other words, it permeated his 11:36 life. And what was most of the evil? We don't know but 11:39 certainly it was the question of having sex, because that was his 11:43 story for all those years, 13 years. So really when you look 11:49 at the story and at the teaching the life story is not matching 11:54 with the teaching. So even Gautama Buddha does not seem to 11:59 have fulfilled his own teachings in his life. How about Islam, 12:04 the story of Muhammad? 12:05 Now Muhammad is considered to be the perfect man 12:09 and in traditional Islamic circles they do accept him as 12:13 that and I think we should accept him. But look at what the 12:16 Quran says. For example, in chapter four. Then you may marry 12:21 other women who seem good to you: two, three or four of them. 12:24 Muhammad had two basic parts of his life. One was in Mecca and 12:31 next half was in Medina. In Mecca he had only one wife. 12:34 In Medina, when he went, he had shifted out from being not just 12:38 a messenger of god, but to be a statesman, a general in his 12:44 army. Now he had power, a different kind of power, and he 12:48 wanted to maybe make alliances so he had so many wives. Here 12:52 it says four. It is said in the writings that he had anywhere 12:57 from 11 to even 19 wives. So he really didn't match this 13:03 teaching. How about 13:05 the next verse? It's found in chapter 48: "We [Allah] have 13:08 given you [Muhammad] a glorious victory so that [Allah] God may 13:13 forgive your past and future sins." And in chapter 93: "Did 13:18 he [Allah] not find you [Muhammad] in error and guide 13:22 you?" So we acknowledge that Muhammad was the perfect man 13:26 but the perfection in Islamic tradition still allows sins and 13:32 errors. So yes, perfect, good, but really you cannot be an 13:39 example if you have exceptions like the exception was given to 13:43 him to marry more than four. So either example or exception, 13:48 not both. So did Muhammad keep up to the teachings. Well to a 13:54 good extent but still there were faults. How about Judaism? 13:59 The words here are: "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not 14:03 commit adultery." "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Let's 14:07 look at the three Hebrew greats: Abraham, Moses and David. 14:13 Here's Moses: "So he looked this way and that way and when he saw 14:16 no one, he killed him and hid him in the sand." What's that? 14:20 Murder. And the story of Abraham "So he went in to Hagar and she 14:25 conceived." He had sex with Hagar. Hagar was not his wife. 14:29 So that's adultery. And then when you go to the neighboring 14:32 town he tells the king that his wife, Sarah, is actually his 14:38 sister. Well that was a lie. So this big towering prophet still 14:42 indulged in falsehood as well. How about David? The words are: 14:47 "...David sent messengers and took her." Who is her? Bathsheba 14:51 Bathsheba was not his wife. That's committing adultery. And 14:55 then to cover up his actions he takes this husband who's a 15:02 member of his army, sends him into battle specifically to be 15:06 killed. It says: "Set Uriah [the husband] in the forefront of the 15:11 hottest battle...retreat from him that he may be struck down 15:14 and die." Cold-blooded murder. So no Hebrew great ever came up 15:22 to the top of the teachings that they themselves claim and 15:27 proclaimed. Then we come to Christianity. Jesus was accused 15:33 of the sin of blasphemy. Here are the words: Then the Jews 15:37 took up stones to stone him... 'for blasphemy... [and this is 15:41 why they wanted to stone him] because you being a man make 15:45 yourself God.'" So the question is did he break the law. The 15:49 Jews said so; but the writings of John actually claim the 15:54 opposite. They say that he was God. So if he was God, it was 15:59 blasphemy. In fact, John says in John 1:1 "The word [that is 16:04 Jesus] was God." And thus the writings on which we base our 16:08 assessment they stand by him even though he was accused. 16:12 So the accusation was there but it was not upheld in the 16:18 writings themselves. So we'll set aside the question of 16:22 blasphemy. He was accused but it was not sustained in the 16:26 writings. And now we go to 12 statements in the writings to 16:29 see how they pan out. Here is the first statement by Pilot: 16:35 Now Pilot was a Roman governor. Romans and Jews were not exactly 16:40 friends. In fact, they hated one another with a passion. And yet 16:45 this is what Pilot, a Roman governor, is talking about a Jew 16:50 Jesus. "And indeed having examined him in your presence 16:54 I have found no fault in this man." And in the book of John 16:58 it said: "I find no fault in him at all." And then he endorses 17:04 that and quotes Herod by saying Herod also found no fault 17:08 because he sent him back. So these two were the first in our 17:14 list. Number three: Pilot's wife During the trial she sent a note 17:18 to Pilot. She said, watch what you are doing about this man who 17:22 is in your court. I've heard about him and in fact I saw in 17:29 a dream, this man is a just man. The word just means good, 17:35 blameless. Number four: The Roman centurion. These hardened 17:42 soldiers knew what criminals looked like and he was in charge 17:46 of the crucifixion. And when he saw the way Jesus behaved his 17:50 words, his whole demeanor. Boy! This was different. And so at 17:58 the point of his death when he saw how he died, what happened 18:01 around him, these are his words: "Certainly this was a righteous 18:07 man." The thief on the cross: Jesus was crucified between two 18:14 thieves. One of them turned to Jesus and said, Hey if you are 18:18 the Son of God and a Messiah and have tremendous power and a 18:25 energy and authority why don't you come down from the cross and 18:28 also take us down. The other thief turned to him and chided 18:34 him and said, Look you and I are dying here, crucified, because 18:40 of what we did which was wrong and evil. And then he says these 18:45 words: "But this man [pointing to Jesus] has done nothing wrong 18:51 Now all these five saw him from a distance. So from a distance 18:57 well yeah, he appears to be okay. What about those who were close 19:02 to Jesus? You know there's a tradition in the east between a 19:07 rabbi and his followers who was called a talmidim. And in India 19:11 we have the guru and the follower who is called a shishya 19:14 The relationship is very strong and peculiar. The talmidim, the 19:20 the follower of a rabbi has to leave home to follow the 19:25 master. Why? Because he must follow him to the extent of 19:30 becoming like him and here's one of the prayers that the parents 19:35 prayed over the son who was now going to be a follower of this 19:39 rabbi. It was great honor the family if a rabbi came by and 19:44 said I would like your son to be a follower of mine. So this is 19:48 the prayer they would say. May the dust of your rabbi cover 19:54 your garments. The dust coming from his sandals cover your 20:02 garment. What's the meaning? May you follow so closely your 20:08 rabbi that in the end you will be like your rabbi. Go close to 20:13 him. The sandals' dust that comes up must come onto your 20:16 garment. In other words, watch him. As he speaks, so should you 20:22 speak. As he walks, you will walk. As he eats, you will eat. 20:26 Compare, copy him in all his mannerisms and all his teachings 20:35 and all his philosophy. In other words be close to him at all 20:39 times. Jesus, as a rabbi, had talmidim and they followed him 20:46 day after day. So here's one of them. John, who watched Jesus. 20:50 Now John obviously wants to be like Jesus so he watched him 20:54 from morning till evening, day after day, week after week, 20:58 month after month, year after year for three and a half years 21:02 continuously. And at the end of that continuous close 21:08 observation here is his assessment: "...in Him there is 21:12 no sin." How about Peter, another talmidim, another 21:17 follower: He said "Christ... without blemish and without 21:21 spot." Disciple another one, Paul: he "...was in all points 21:28 tempted as we are [and] yet without sin." Can you see a 21:34 tendency with all these people? They seem to be looking at him 21:38 examining him and not really finding that which discredits 21:42 him. Well these disciples were his good ones. How about a 21:47 disloyal disciple? Judas. He had betrayed him. And then when he 21:53 realized his mistake he went back to the priests and he threw 21:55 the money back at them and said No I don't want this money 21:59 because is I who have sinned, I have betrayed this man who is 22:04 innocent. He used the words innocent blood meaning this man 22:07 was innocent. So we have nine stating the same thing. The 22:12 tenth one is quite peculiar and quite powerful. Jesus is the 22:18 only founder of a major religion who is referenced in the 22:22 writings of another major religion. He is referenced 90 22:27 times and more in the holy Quran the book of Islam. Sixteen times 22:37 he's identified by his mother's name. In those days it was 22:40 usually a father's name. Son of so and so. But here Jesus and he 22:46 also was called Jesus the son of Mary. And in the Quran is says 22:50 Eesa ibn Maryam more than 16 times, Jesus the son of Mary. 22:55 and more than 10 times he is given the title al-Maseeh, the 23:02 Messiah in the Quran. And there are other words in the Quran 23:06 about the life of Jesus. In chapter three and verse 46: 23:10 It says, "He shall lead a righteous life." And the one who 23:16 spoke to his mother, the angel, described his life: "Holy and 23:22 blameless son." Remember this is the same Quran that acknowledged 23:27 that Muhammad did 23:29 have sins and errors. And here the same Quran is saying that 23:36 he is a righteous life, blameless Son. How about his own 23:41 conscience. Now how many of us, you and I, can look into our 23:45 lives and say everything is fine we never made a mistake in our 23:48 lives. Nobody can say that. But there was a time when Jesus 23:55 faced his bitterest critics, those who were thirsting for his 24:00 life and he turned to them and said Which of you can show one 24:05 sin in my life, the words actually "Which of you convicts 24:08 me of sin?" In other words, can you prove sin in me? You know 24:12 what the response was? Silence. Now, look through history. How 24:17 many public figures can you find who would look at their 24:22 bitterest enemies who are thirsting for their death and 24:26 challenges them to find one mistake, and the response is 24:31 silence. I believe you will not find any. On the screen is the 24:36 word K'ung Ch'iu. That's his Chinese name. His western name 24:39 is Confucius. Now if you know anything about Confucius he was 24:45 a wonderful man, generous, benevolent, loving and kind and 24:48 everything that goes to make a person wonderful and yet look at 24:53 his own words: "How dare I claim to be sage or a benevolent man?" 24:57 So even Confucius agreed that he was not up to the mark. But when 25:02 you look then at Jesus who said there seems to be nothing in my 25:06 life, in my whole conscience. It's amazing. Number 12: In the 25:11 Sanhedrin they asked him this question: "Are you then the Son 25:15 of God?" And they put him to death for that question. 25:18 Now in a trial 25:21 you don't put them to death because of their claim as to who 25:25 they are. You put them to death because of what they did or did 25:28 not do. Now in that trial they did bring witnesses over and 25:32 over, and they could not find any reason to put him to death 25:36 could not find a fault. So the chief priest shifted 25:40 out the question 25:41 from what did you do or what did you not do to who are you. That 25:47 shift tells me that his life was perfect, what he did, what he 25:52 did not do met the highest standard. In other words, 25:56 15 million minutes of life on this earth, in the midst of a 25:59 wicked and corrupt generation - and every thought, every deed 26:02 every purpose, every work, privately and publicly, from the 26:05 time he opened His baby eyes until He expired on the cross, 26:08 were all approved of God. Never once did our Lord have to 26:12 confess any sin, for He had no sin." "He alone carried the 26:18 spotless purity of childhood untarnished through youth and 26:21 manhood." "Christ's self-conscious purity is 26:24 astonishing." "Sinless perfection and perfect 26:27 sinlessness is what we would expect of God-incarnate, and 26:30 this we find in Jesus. The hypothesis and facts concur." 26:35 In other words, what we would expect is what we find. Amazing. 26:39 Now look at the consistency of his life. He said he was God. 26:46 And when he came down from being God, he said I bring the message 26:52 in myself. I am the message. If he came from there of course 26:56 he would be the message. And if he really was the message, then 27:01 we should expect that that life would be permeated by the 27:06 message to the extent that there would be no mistake at all. 27:11 And that's exactly what we find here. God incarnate bringing the 27:18 message in himself so that he himself is the message and 27:21 living it out to perfection. An amazing record. 27:26 Is that another red marble? 27:29 If you have enjoyed this presentation with Dr. Subodh 27:33 Pandit and wish to watch more of this unique 13 part series for 27:38 free online visit the website GodFactOrFiction.com. That's 27:44 GodFactOrFiction.com. If you would like to order this 27:47 fascinating series on DVD it is now available from White Horse 27:51 Media... 27:58 Dr. Subodh Pandit has written two eye-opening books entitled 28:01 Come Search With Me: Does God Really Exist? and Come Search 28:06 With Me: The Weight of Evidence which further explore the topics 28:09 of evolution, theism, atheism and religion. 28:13 ♪ ♪ |
Revised 2021-09-01