House Calls

Hell, Pt. 2

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Lomacang (Host), James Rafferty

Home

Series Code: HCL

Program Code: HCL120012


00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible and a friend
00:03 and sit back as we explore God's word together
00:05 on this edition of "House Calls."
00:22 Welcome to another edition of the "House Calls" program
00:24 that you've tuned in last time too.
00:26 And hopefully if you're not new,
00:28 you are enjoying this program.
00:30 Well, my name is John Lomacang and I have to my right,
00:33 the "Son of Thunder," James.
00:35 Good to have you here, James. Good to be here, John.
00:37 You know, if you haven't caught that there's James and John,
00:39 the two Sons of Thunder.
00:41 And the only thunder we're gonna bring to you
00:43 is a thunder of the word of God today.
00:45 We're not gonna rain on your parade.
00:46 But get your Bibles, get your pens,
00:49 get your family members and sit down for the next hour
00:51 and walk through the Bible with us.
00:53 This is a program that we absolutely love.
00:56 I mean how many times do people get a chance to sit down
01:01 in soft comfortable chairs
01:03 and share the Bible for an hour, really?
01:06 That's a blessing, isn't it?
01:07 It's a perfect situation for all of us
01:09 because we love the word of God.
01:11 We love to study the word of God.
01:13 We are motivated by our viewers, the audience, you,
01:16 with the questions you bring in here to "House Calls,"
01:19 to open our Bibles and search for answers
01:22 and understand what God's word
01:23 is speaking to us and to you, to your hearts.
01:26 And it's our privilege.
01:27 It's a blessing to be here. It's a blessing to be--
01:29 and then again we have the comfortable chairs so that's--
01:31 That's right. It makes a big difference.
01:33 But now that we have all the aesthetics in place,
01:35 we need the spirit of God to guide our hearts.
01:37 So, James, have a prayer for us? Amen.
01:39 Father, again, we open Your word
01:41 and we do it with thanksgiving,
01:43 with praise, and with reverence,
01:45 we recognize that Your word
01:47 is the sole answer to our questions,
01:49 the questions of the viewing audience.
01:52 And that You have promised Your spirit to give insight,
01:55 understanding, to instruct us and show us things to come.
02:00 We praise You for this.
02:01 We ask for the presence of Your spirit.
02:03 We ask for Your cleansing, for Your anointing.
02:05 And we thank you for this gift
02:07 that is freely bestowed upon us
02:09 because of the goodness and righteousness
02:11 and the merit of Jesus Christ.
02:12 We pray in His name.
02:14 Amen. Amen.
02:16 Praise the Lord for that.
02:17 You know, friends, we always like this part of the program.
02:19 We always begin with your questions and your comments.
02:23 Sometimes you do send wonderful comments.
02:25 Sometimes the comments are hard
02:27 to figure out where you're headed.
02:29 So try to make those questions and comments
02:31 as clear as you possibly can.
02:33 But if there's something going through your mind,
02:34 that we may have just brought to the surface,
02:37 you can send those questions or comments
02:39 to housecalls@3abn.org That's housecalls@3abn.org
02:44 O-r-g, I guess stands for organization.
02:46 And we do believe in organization here.
02:48 I guess that's what it means, right?
02:49 That's what it means, yeah.
02:51 And com is commercial, e-d-u is education.
02:54 Anyway, just remember o-r-g.
02:56 And we'd appreciate whatever you send to us.
02:58 Now we do have some questions.
02:59 Do you have one or two questions today?
03:01 I have one question today.
03:02 Well, I'll start with one and so we can go back and forth.
03:04 A very wonderful question.
03:06 I think the time is right that this question get answered
03:08 because we're living in a day and age
03:10 where certain things that are true and good in the Bible
03:13 are being misused and put in a improper context.
03:17 Let me lead into it with a story.
03:19 Many years ago, there was the little,
03:22 I don't know, nursery rhyme or whatever you call it the,
03:25 "Little red riding hood?" Remember that? Mm-hmm.
03:28 She's supposed to-- is this the one
03:30 where she was supposed to go to grandma's house? Mm-hmm.
03:31 And when she got there,
03:33 what does she find again, you remember?
03:34 A wolf dressed up in grandma's garb.
03:36 Oh, I tell you.
03:38 So she found the right house.
03:40 She found the right garb, but it wasn't her grandma.
03:44 Wrong person. Wrong person.
03:46 So with that story, now all clear in your mind,
03:50 here's the question,
03:52 "If a pastor who calls himself a prophet
03:57 says he has a message for me, should I believe him?"
04:02 Let's start with that part first.
04:04 That's good. That's a good question.
04:06 Well, you know, the reason
04:07 why this is a very important question is today,
04:10 there is a-- there is an explosion.
04:14 I was gonna use the word dearth,
04:16 but that's not the right word.
04:17 There is an explosion of people calling themselves
04:21 prophets and prophetesses.
04:23 And these terms are being used
04:24 more and more in religious circles.
04:27 There are television programs where people are saying,
04:30 "I could send you-- I could sell you this course
04:32 and you could learn how to be a prophet or prophetess."
04:35 And I was--one evening, I was--my wife and I,
04:39 we were just thumbing through the channels
04:41 and we saw the word prophet and we turned back.
04:44 And there were these three individuals sitting down
04:46 and one guy, he was Master Prophet.
04:50 And he had two women with him that were Master Prophetesses.
04:54 And they wanted to sell them the program.
04:56 How you can learn how to be
04:57 a master prophet or master prophetess?
05:00 And I discovered that they didn't want us to be a--
05:05 they were not talking about p-r-o-p-h-e-t.
05:09 They were talking about p-r-o-f-i-t. Oh!
05:12 Profit. Okay.
05:14 These prophets were concerned about profits. Yes.
05:18 And so, many of the self appointed prophets nowadays--
05:23 When the Bible uses the word "prophet" in the New Testament,
05:26 it doesn't use a word prophet very, very much.
05:28 But it uses the word preacher.
05:30 You know, when you pray for gift--
05:35 pray for the gift of prophecy, but prophets and preachers
05:40 were synonymous in the New Testament a lot.
05:43 But prophets in the Old Testaments
05:45 were not always same as prophets in the New Testament.
05:47 And what I mean by that is Daniel wasn't a preacher,
05:52 but he was a prophet.
05:54 God had given him prophecies that which will unfold
05:57 under whatever domain he was in,
05:59 whether Babylon or the reign of the Medes and the Persians.
06:03 But he wasn't a preacher
06:05 like Peter, like James, like Paul.
06:09 He wasn't an itinerant preacher traveling from place to place.
06:13 But the answer to the question,
06:14 be careful that a person who calls himself a prophet
06:18 or a woman who calls herself a prophetess,
06:21 measure what they say by the word of God.
06:24 The word of God is the standard.
06:26 And do you know, James--
06:28 I wanna read a few passages here.
06:29 But there are some individuals nowadays that will say,
06:31 "God just gave me a prophecy for you."
06:34 Have you heard of some of those?
06:35 Yeah, and I think it's really important for us to recognize--
06:39 Some of the points you made here, John,
06:40 for example, the idea of profit, f-i-t versus prophet, h-e-t.
06:47 There was a man by the name of Simon Magnus
06:49 who wanted the gift of the Holy Spirit.
06:52 And the reason he wanted the gift the Holy Spirit was
06:53 because it was powerful.
06:55 He wanted the power of the Holy Spirit.
06:57 The Holy Spirit is the one that designates prophets.
07:00 The one that designates teachers, and preachers,
07:02 and pastors, and evangelists.
07:04 According to Ephesians Chapter 4,
07:06 it is the gift of the Holy Spirit
07:08 in our hearts that designates our calling.
07:11 And so Simon Magus wanted this gift
07:14 and he wanted to pay for it.
07:15 So right there when you're listening to--
07:17 when you're taking in the idea
07:21 that if you pay a certain amount of money, I can give you this.
07:24 Paul rebuked him.
07:25 He was rebuked for wanting to pay
07:27 for the gift of the Holy Spirit.
07:29 We can't do that.
07:30 God anoints, God gifts.
07:33 The very word itself implies freely.
07:35 And so a gift is given,
07:37 bestowed not because we want to great,
07:39 not because we want to make money.
07:41 In fact, in the context of the Bible,
07:43 one of the greatest prophets, Jesus said,
07:45 "The greatest prophet that ever lived,
07:48 was a very poor man, his name was John the Baptist."
07:51 And John the Baptist, the Bible says,
07:53 was dressed in a camel's garment and he ate locust and honey.
07:58 Locust bean--the locust bean of the area of the middle-east,
08:02 even today the locust bean could be made into bread,
08:05 it's called St. John's Bread.
08:07 And if you had to eat locust which was--
08:10 normally the locust bean was something
08:12 that was fed to animals.
08:14 And it was said that if you had to eat the locust bean,
08:16 you really needed to repent
08:17 because God was not blessing you.
08:20 And so John was a poor man.
08:22 He was a humble man.
08:24 And yet he was the greatest of the prophets.
08:27 So just that that indication right there of making prophet,
08:31 well, we know that Jesus even said,
08:32 "I have no place to lay my head"
08:34 tells us, should tell us
08:35 what is the purpose of the pastor?
08:38 What is his message for you in relation to the Bible?
08:41 How does it relate to the Bible?
08:43 How does it correlate to the word of God?
08:44 And that's important. The measuring rod is the key.
08:46 You know, when you want to say,
08:48 "Well, how wide should this wall be?"
08:52 You don't stand back and estimate it
08:53 when you're building somebody's house.
08:55 I mean really there may be somebody on this planet
08:57 that has that skill. I haven't met him or her yet.
09:00 But the Bible says, "Beware."
09:02 Let's look at a couple of passages.
09:03 First of all Matthew 7:15.
09:06 The Bible says, "Beware of false prophets,
09:09 who come to you in sheep's clothing."
09:13 Now this is really important
09:15 because sheep's clothing is in fact--
09:18 if you put--I saw a picture of somebody, they drew a wolf.
09:23 Everything about the wolf looked like a sheep
09:25 except--this part of the face. The snout.
09:27 The snout and the eyes.
09:29 You know, the eyes that the wolf has.
09:30 But if it was walking away from me,
09:32 you'd think as a sheep except the ears and right here.
09:36 And it says, "Beware of false prophets
09:39 who come to you in sheep's clothing,
09:42 but inwardly they are ravenous or raving wolves."
09:46 And so when you think about a raving wolf,
09:48 not just a wolf, but a raving wolf.
09:51 Peter talks about how there will be those wolves
09:55 that will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
09:58 And there are lots of people
10:00 that have been led astray by false prophets.
10:02 But they are-- in many cases as Matthew says,
10:05 "False prophets and false Christs will rise
10:07 and will deceive many," Matthew 24:24.
10:09 So you have people that are prophets
10:11 in their own appointment. But they are not prophets
10:14 when it comes to God's appointment. Amen.
10:16 And ravening wolves, I like that because
10:19 ravening wolves are seeking, looking for victims.
10:23 And many times, they prey upon the weakest.
10:25 Right. They don't prey upon those who are strong.
10:27 So, friends, if you want to guard yourself
10:30 from false prophets,
10:31 become strong in the word of God.
10:33 Allow the word of God to be the foundation
10:35 of everything you believe and everything you follow.
10:37 And God will not allow
10:39 those of us to be led astray by false prophets.
10:41 Now in Matthew 24, Jesus warns us of false prophets
10:44 three times and He says, "It's possible that even
10:47 the very elect could be deceived."
10:49 But God will not allow us
10:51 to be deceived by false prophets.
10:52 If we will ground ourselves in the word of God,
10:54 become familiar with the word of God,
10:56 make Jesus our best friend and our sure counselor.
10:59 That doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to a message
11:01 but we need to test it. That's right.
11:02 We're going to hear all kinds of different messages.
11:04 And the Bereans were so faithful
11:06 that they even tested the words of Paul. That's right.
11:08 When Paul preached to them, they said, "Hmm,
11:10 this sounds, eh--this sounds pretty reasonable.
11:12 This sounds pretty--" "Let's go check it out."
11:14 "Let's go back and check it out and see if it's true."
11:16 And today, James, there are so many people,
11:18 they just don't check out the word of God.
11:20 One of the things I'm perturbed by is the fact
11:22 that people will say, "My pastor said,"
11:26 rather than the word of God says.
11:28 Or "My church teaches," rather than the Bible teaches.
11:31 And so what we have nowadays is we have the cereal aisle.
11:35 Churches have become nothing more than a cereal aisle.
11:37 In a grocery store? In a grocery store. Okay.
11:39 You go down that aisle, you know, you want
11:41 some post super sugar crisp, somebody else want,
11:44 you know, corn flakes,
11:45 somebody else wants Captain Crunch,
11:47 somebody wants hot cereals, somebody wants--
11:49 Fruit loops. Fruit loops.
11:51 Okay, there are some profits out of eating fruit loops.
11:55 Okay, I got that picture in my mind now.
11:57 But truly they're-- it's sugar coated.
12:00 But there is no nutrition there.
12:02 And so to take the fruit loops to its ultimate extreme.
12:05 There are messages that make you feel good,
12:07 but there is no scriptural nourishment at all.
12:11 And so I remember,
12:13 I was giving a prophecy seminar--
12:14 and I'll go back to some Bible verses here.
12:17 I was giving a prophecy seminar
12:18 and when I started this Revelation seminar
12:20 just about a week later in the time
12:22 that I was giving a series of meetings,
12:24 five other churches started a meeting.
12:26 And the largest church in town said they were having
12:29 a prophet come to town.
12:30 Well, on one of our nights off, I went to hear
12:32 what this prophet had to say.
12:35 It had nothing to do with word of God.
12:37 It had to do with just calling people out of the audience
12:40 and saying, "Is there a James Rafferty
12:43 in the audience today? James Rafferty?
12:45 God told me that He is gonna anoint you with power
12:49 from on high and you're gonna be a powerful instrument
12:53 in the hand of God."
12:55 Oh, wow, you needed to have traveled
12:57 180 miles just to tell me that.
12:59 You know, now, sounds good... Yeah.
13:03 But what happens is they consider that a prophecy
13:07 when in fact--
13:09 It's a flattery. It's a flattery.
13:10 And people say, "Oh."
13:12 Then there's somebody else-- and I went to another church--
13:14 Benny Hinn, you remember Benny Hinn?
13:16 He is very popular. When he was in Florida,
13:17 my mother-in-law lived about a mile away from his church.
13:20 On the way back from a store, my wife and I--
13:23 my wife and her cousin and I, we just--all these cars,
13:26 so we pulled in, let's just go peek.
13:28 You know, we didn't go-- we are not by the way going
13:30 to Benny Hinn services to see what's going on.
13:32 Whew! And you get me worried there for a second, John.
13:35 I was starting to worry about you.
13:36 So let's go peek to see what's going on here.
13:38 So we went in.
13:39 In the back of the church, it was just--it was just
13:42 replete with wheelchairs and people on respirators,
13:46 you know, people that couldn't move
13:47 and they would-- just all contorted.
13:49 And this was a healing miracle service.
13:52 The people that were being healed or people--
13:55 "Come up and I'm gonna touch your ear and from this day on,
13:57 you're gonna able to hear God as He speaks to you.
14:00 I'm gonna touch your voice, so you can sing
14:01 more songs to the glory of God."
14:03 And I'm thinking, what ever happened
14:04 to these people in the back here?
14:06 That really need healing.
14:07 Not one of them were invited forward.
14:09 Not one of them.
14:11 They were all sent back home
14:12 in their wheelchairs as they came.
14:14 False prophets.
14:15 But now let's go to the other side of that,
14:17 because sometimes false healings will take place.
14:21 Yes. Look at Matthew 24:24. Read that for us.
14:25 Matthew 24. Yeah, Matthew 24:24.
14:28 Verse 24. Yeah.
14:32 It says here, "For there shall arise false Christs,
14:34 and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders,
14:38 insomuch that, if it were possible,
14:40 they shall deceive the very elect."
14:42 Great signs and wonders, just like Revelation 13.
14:46 They perform miracles, signs, and wonders,
14:48 and people think, "Well, aren't signs and wonders
14:50 an indication that God is with them?"
14:52 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, I want to read that with you.
14:56 And this is a powerful passage.
15:00 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, I'm gonna go ahead
15:03 and bring this up in the King James Version here
15:09 so that we could read that together.
15:11 I want to be able to stay on the same page with you.
15:13 Here we are.
15:15 Deuteronomy 13 beginning with the verse 1,
15:18 "If there arises among you a prophet,
15:23 or a dreamer of dreams, and-- giveth thee a sign or a wonder."
15:29 Usually that's all people want.
15:31 Even the Jewish had to show us a sign. Right.
15:33 "And the sign or the wonder come to pass,
15:37 wherefore he spake unto thee, saying,
15:40 Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known,
15:44 and let us serve them." Get this.
15:47 "Thou shall not hearken unto the words of that prophet,
15:50 or that dreamer of dreams,
15:51 for the Lord your God proveth you."
15:54 Or is testing you.
15:55 "To know whether you love the Lord your God
15:58 with all your heart and with all your soul.
16:00 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God,
16:02 and fear him, and keep his commandments,
16:04 and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him,
16:07 and cleave unto him." Read verse 5 down to--
16:11 "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams,
16:13 shall be put to death, because he has spoken
16:16 to turn you away from the Lord your God,
16:18 which brought you out of the land of Egypt,
16:20 and has redeemed you out of the house of bondage,
16:22 to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord
16:26 thy God commanded thee to walk in.
16:28 So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee."
16:35 Isn't that just amazing?
16:37 So what's happening here is a lot of times
16:39 when people come up with these prophecies,
16:41 here is a big text.
16:43 This is a powerful text, 1 John 2:3 and 4,
16:47 "And hereby we do know that we know him,
16:50 if we keep his commandments.
16:52 He that saith, I know him,
16:53 and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,
16:56 and the truth is not in him."
16:57 Prophet, are you a commandment keeper?
17:00 No. Then you're not a prophet.
17:02 Wow, that's pretty cut and dry.
17:05 Isaiah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony,
17:09 if they speak not according to this word,
17:11 it's because there is how much light?" No.
17:13 "No light in them." Zippo.
17:16 So what happens nowadays, people calling themselves
17:19 prophets are not in fact prophets
17:23 as God's word measures them.
17:25 One more thought, John. Sure.
17:27 And this just came to my mind as you were talking.
17:30 Would it be fair to say that most of the prophets
17:34 of the Bible brought a message of rebuke
17:38 rather than a message of flattery?
17:40 Would it be fair to say that? Wonderful, wonderful.
17:42 God raised up prophets for a specific person.
17:44 God raised up prophets to bring a message to His people
17:47 because they were going in a wrong direction.
17:49 They needed guidance. They needed help.
17:51 They needed to be awakened.
17:52 This is John the Baptist, of course. That's right.
17:54 Jesus was also not just the son of God, a Messiah,
17:56 but he was a great prophet.
17:58 And so when you look at the Old Testament,
17:59 you see Elijah, you see Jeremiah, you see Ezekiel,
18:01 you see Isaiah, you see Amos, you see Hosea,
18:04 you see Moses, you see all of these great prophets.
18:07 And what was the basis of their emphasis in their ministry?
18:11 It was to correct, to rebuke, to exhort
18:13 with all longsuffering and doctrine,
18:15 and which is what we were told in the New Testament,
18:17 "Preach the word."
18:18 And so the characteristics of a prophet,
18:22 biblically speaking, is a man, a woman
18:25 who is going to be directing to the law into the testimony.
18:27 A man and a woman who is going to--
18:29 is raised up to correct and rebuke and admonish
18:33 God's people and help them, to not to flatter them.
18:37 Very rarely if ever-- I'm just trying to think,
18:39 I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think.
18:41 Where is a prophet in the Bible that is flattering?
18:43 I know that the false prophets-- all through the Old Testament,
18:46 the false prophets consistently flattered. Right.
18:49 Consistently say, "Oh, yes, King,
18:51 you're the greatest and all.
18:52 Yes, you do that. God is gonna bless you
18:54 and He's gonna give you victory."
18:56 These were the false prophets.
18:58 But the true prophets of God, many times lost their lives,
19:01 had to flee for their lives because their message
19:03 was so direct and so strong and rebuking and chastening,
19:10 the leaders or those people they were speaking to.
19:13 That's right. And so you have to be very, very careful
19:15 that the message you're getting is one
19:16 that of a butterfly sugar-coated,
19:20 "Oh, huh, I feel really good."
19:21 And running in the opposite direction if a prophet says,
19:24 "God has sent me with a message to make you
19:27 wealthy and rich and famous if, in fact, you buy my program
19:31 for five easy payments of $150."
19:35 You know, that's where it really comes down to.
19:38 And they rake people.
19:39 I don't want to start mentioning names.
19:41 There are those who go to-- and I think you've made
19:43 a very important point I want to revisit.
19:45 Many people that are not scripturally sound,
19:49 many people that have not become familiar with their Bible
19:51 become easy prey-- Yes.
19:53 For these people. With much fair speech,
19:56 the Bible says they deceive the simple.
19:58 And that's what happens. So a guy comes
20:00 and throws a single verse
20:01 and then he just for the rest of the night
20:03 makes a person's foot, like, re-grew
20:05 or they throw away canes and all these.
20:07 So be very careful. And lastly, there is a story.
20:11 It's in the Book of 1 King.
20:12 It's just simply under the category of the Man of God.
20:16 God sent one of His prophets,
20:19 The Man of God, He sent Him with a message to go on an errand.
20:22 He said "When you go on the errand and you deliver
20:24 this message, when you come back,
20:26 don't stop at anybody's house.
20:29 Don't eat with them. Don't talk to them.
20:33 Don't entertain them.
20:36 It's not gonna be good if you do that."
20:37 Just go straight home.
20:38 Go straight home. Just go straight home.
20:40 I remember that story. That's a good story.
20:41 And so I preach the sermon entitled,
20:43 "I am prophet also".
20:45 In this story, He met a man along the way
20:48 and the Man of God said to him,
20:50 "But the Lord told me not to go home with you,
20:53 not to eat bread with you, not to talk with you,
20:56 not even-- not to go to your place.
21:00 That's what God told me to do." And here were the words
21:02 that were used to deceive this prophet.
21:05 He says in verse 18 of 1 Kings.
21:08 1 Kings 13:18, he said unto him,
21:13 "I am a prophet also, as you have said.
21:17 I am a prophet just like you are.
21:20 And an angel," now the reason
21:22 I brought this up is because people often say,
21:25 "I got a divine prophecy. An angel gave me a prophecy."
21:30 Well, Paul dealt with that. What did he say?
21:32 If a gospel comes--
21:34 Yeah, "With an another angel,
21:35 another spirit preaching another Jesus."
21:37 Right. "Don't believe it.
21:38 I'm afraid that you will, but don't. Don't accept it."
21:41 So when they start citing a divine origin
21:44 that contradicts the word of God,
21:47 don't believe it.
21:49 This prophet said, "An angle spoke to me
21:51 by the word of the Lord."
21:54 It wouldn't sound like I'm preaching.
21:56 Yes, but that you are and we need to because
21:58 again Jesus warned us three times
22:00 in the Book of Matthew, Signs of the Times,
22:02 End Time Events, false prophets, false prophets, false prophets.
22:05 And one of the words there is religious teachers
22:08 those who feel like they are anointed in the Lord.
22:10 And I like the process here in 1 Kings
22:12 because his first reply was no.
22:15 "I may not go back with you", verse 8.
22:17 And then in verse 16, he softens a little bit.
22:20 In other words, friends, sometimes these people,
22:23 these false teachers, these false religious leaders,
22:25 they're gonna be working on you, working on you.
22:27 And if you keep going, I mean I'm glad that, John,
22:29 you only went to that meeting once.
22:31 Because you keep going and keep going
22:32 and you could be taken in by all of the power
22:34 and the influence and the crowd.
22:36 That's why I like Jesus' voice,
22:38 because it's like the voice of a multitude.
22:39 That's right. It's like the voice
22:41 of many waters, symbolic of people.
22:43 Jesus' voice is strong enough to help us to resist
22:45 the multitude and the crowd that come against us many times.
22:48 That's right. And so then he weakens,
22:50 verse 16 in 1 Kings 13. He said, "I may not return."
22:55 First, "I will not," then, "I may not return."
22:58 And then in verse 18, you know, He says,
23:01 "Well, I am a prophet also."
23:03 So there is the new light, you know, the new--"oh,
23:05 I didn't realize-- you're a prophet?
23:06 Oh, there are some more-- oh, okay.
23:08 "And then as He moves on--
23:10 End--look at the end of verse 18.
23:11 What does it say at the end of verse 18,
23:13 the last five words? "But He lied unto Him." Mm-hmm.
23:15 "But He lied unto Him."
23:16 And then of course verse 19, "He went back."
23:19 "He went back." That is a sad,
23:21 sad story right there because that tells me that this prophet
23:25 was not willing to live by the truth
23:27 that God had given him. He went back.
23:29 He backslid on the strong statement that he had made,
23:34 "I will not go."
23:35 And God wants us to hold to His word
23:38 and not allow anything to come in, test,
23:41 but not allow anything to come in that would cause us
23:43 to turn back from the word that He's given us.
23:46 That's right. And so be very, very careful.
23:47 So--in a nutshell, you asked the question,
23:49 we gave you this tremendously long answer,
23:51 but very important, very imperative.
23:55 Should I listen to a person who says he is a prophet
23:57 and he has a message from God?
24:00 Measure what that person says by the word of God
24:03 and not the single scripture
24:04 but many places put it all together.
24:08 Amen. And then measure with somebody else
24:11 because that's what the word of God is for,
24:12 it's for to some--
24:14 it's for proof, for reproof, for correction,
24:18 for instruction, and righteousness.
24:19 For doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
24:21 for instruction, and righteousness.
24:23 Measure by the word of God. If at all it conflicts,
24:27 that man is not a prophet of God.
24:29 And must--and then secondly he must be a commandment keeper.
24:33 All right. What you have for us, James?
24:35 Well, this question is coming to us
24:38 from a listener in South Africa. Wow.
24:42 He says, "I've hit a proverbial wall
24:45 and look to you to help me breakthrough.
24:46 I've read the verses of Revelation 19-21
24:51 over and over again and there is something
24:54 for the love of me that I am missing.
24:56 The verses read as follows, 'And I saw the beast
24:59 and the kings of the earth and their armies
25:01 gathering together to make war against him
25:03 who sat on the white horse and against his army.
25:06 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet
25:09 who worked signs in his presence by which he deceived those.'
25:12 Keyword right there, 'Deceived those who received
25:15 the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image.
25:18 These two, the beast and the false prophet,
25:20 were cast alive into the lake burning with brimstone.
25:25 The rest were killed with the sword which proceeded
25:27 from the mouth of him who sat on the white horse,
25:29 and all the birds were filled with their flesh.'
25:31 Then he goes on.
25:33 "My dilemma is, 'These two which were thrown alive
25:36 into the burning lake.'
25:38 They are there that is in that burning lake
25:41 before Satan is thrown into the lake as my Bible reads."
25:45 "The devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire
25:49 brimstone with the beast and the false prophet are."
25:51 Keyword again, "The devil that deceived them."
25:53 That's Revelation 20:10. Right.
25:56 "So as you can see there's something that I'm not seeing.
25:58 I've written before on this subject,
26:00 haven't received your reply.
26:01 And I was looking forward to hearing your answer to this.
26:04 Kind regards, David from Gordon's Bay, South Africa.
26:07 Okay. Very good question.
26:09 And I would like to just give a summary answer
26:13 and then look at a few Bible texts. Right.
26:15 The summary answer is this that the false prophet
26:19 and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire before Satan
26:24 is because their deceptive power is broken before Satan's
26:29 deceptive power is broken. That's right.
26:31 Fire in the Bible-- the lake of fire in the Bible,
26:33 while it's literal, it's also symbolic.
26:35 And what we're seeing here is that when Jesus comes,
26:38 the deceptive power of the false prophet
26:41 and the beast are broken.
26:42 The world sees that they have been deceived.
26:44 However, it is not until after the 1,000 years
26:48 that the deceptive power of Satan is broken
26:50 because we are told that after the 1,000 years,
26:52 he goes out to deceive the nations even again.
26:55 That's right. And so it's not till after that 1,000 years
26:59 that the deceptive power of Satan is broken.
27:01 And therefore, Satan is thrown into this lake of fire,
27:03 this lake of judgment.
27:05 It's a full revelation of the judgment of God.
27:08 Now the first verse that I'd like us
27:09 to look at is in Romans.
27:12 John, if you want to read these,
27:14 these verses, Romans Chapter 12.
27:16 Romans 12:19-21, I think will be good.
27:22 Okay. It says, "'Beloved, do not avenge yourself,
27:26 but rather give place to wrath.
27:29 For it is written, vengeance is mine,
27:31 I will repay,' says the Lord.
27:34 'Therefore if your enemy is hunger, feed him,
27:36 if he thirst, give him drink.
27:38 For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.
27:43 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.'"
27:48 Okay. This verse is pointing out that fire
27:53 is not always literal in the Bible. Okay.
27:56 The heaps of coal. I think I got that.
27:58 Now this verse also tells us
28:00 that this is a verse of judgment,
28:03 of vengeance, of wrath.
28:05 There is a judgment and vengeance and a wrath
28:07 that is going to come upon the beast and the false prophet.
28:10 The lake of fire, they are going to be cast
28:11 into that lake of fire.
28:13 They are going to experience this judgment,
28:15 this burning at the second coming of Jesus Christ.
28:18 They experience that before the devil.
28:21 The devil is still left off the hook so to speak.
28:24 It's not that they're in a literal lake of fire
28:26 burning for 1,000 years. That's true.
28:27 And then at the end of the 1,000 years,
28:29 the devil joins them.
28:30 It's that their deceptive power is broken.
28:32 They are judged by God.
28:34 They experience His vengeance and His wrath
28:36 and they do this, notices Revelation Chapter 20--
28:41 no, Revelation Chapter 17.
28:43 Revelation Chapter 17 and verse--begin with verse 17.
28:48 Let's read Revelation 17.
28:50 Actually begin with verse 16.
28:52 Revelation 16 and 17.
28:57 John, would you like to read those verses?
28:58 Okay. "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast,
29:02 these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked,
29:08 eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
29:12 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose
29:16 to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast,
29:20 until the words of God are fulfilled."
29:23 Okay. So here we see very clearly
29:26 that those who support the beast,
29:28 those who support the false prophet,
29:30 are gonna burn her with fire.
29:32 That's right. They're gonna eat her flesh.
29:33 Now that's not literal.
29:34 That's not talking literally, of course.
29:36 What we're seeing here in conjunction
29:37 with Romans chapter 12 is a judgment.
29:40 According to verse 17, God is putting his will
29:42 in their hearts to fulfill His will.
29:45 So as judgment is taking place and what Revelation Chapter 20
29:49 is telling us is that judgment comes first
29:51 to the beast and the false prophet.
29:53 They are unmasked.
29:55 Their deceptions were seen.
29:56 The kings of the earth see and they turn against her.
29:59 They bring judgment against her.
30:01 In fact, in Revelation Chapter 18,
30:03 it talks about Babylon's fall.
30:05 And it talks about how that she is rewarded,
30:07 verse 6, double. In other words, not only
30:10 is she going to receive this judgment at the second coming
30:13 but she's also going to be in the lake of fire
30:15 and receive a full judgment after 1,000 years is finished.
30:19 So we have this judgment, verse 8,
30:21 "Then her plagues shall come in one day,
30:24 death, and mourning, and famine
30:25 and she shall be utterly burned with fire
30:28 for strong is the Lord God who judges her."
30:30 What verse are you in?
30:31 That's Revelation Chapter 18:6 and 8. Okay.
30:36 Revelation Chapter 18: 6 and 8.
30:38 So, you have this representation of judgment
30:41 in the context of fire, the lake of fire.
30:43 It's not the literal lake,
30:45 you know, let's take our boat out to the lake
30:46 and let's go to lake. Right.
30:47 This is symbolic in a sense.
30:49 There is going to be literal fire
30:50 but the fire also symbolizes God's judgment
30:53 that will come to the beast and the false prophet
30:56 before it comes to the devil.
30:58 It will come to the beast and the false prophet
30:59 at the second coming of Christ prior to the 1,000 years.
31:03 Just at the beginning of the 1,000 years
31:04 and then after the 1,000 years, they're resurrected.
31:07 The beast and the false prophet are resurrected
31:09 but it's the devil that goes forth to deceive the nations.
31:12 They've been neutered if you will.
31:14 They've lost their ability to deceive the nations.
31:17 The nations have burnt them with fire.
31:20 The judgment has come to them
31:21 but the devil still has that power.
31:23 All right, they've meet the arch deceiver,
31:25 the one that used them will now his final deception.
31:29 You know, that's an amazing but a sad thing
31:32 because when you realize that you've just been unmasked
31:36 and your power has been broken
31:39 yet the power over you hasn't yet been broken.
31:43 That's a really amazing thing.
31:44 A person will get delivered from something
31:46 they have to recognize that the power that they're--
31:48 the power that has been taken from them
31:51 has not always been taken from those around them.
31:55 That's why some people that go to they get incarcerated,
31:58 they serve time for selling whatever,
32:02 some illegal substance.
32:04 And they come out and they may have been rehabilitated
32:08 but they put themselves in the same environment.
32:11 For around people that have not lost that power,
32:13 that have not lost that
32:15 tenacious desire to still deceive.
32:18 And before you know it they're back on same boat again.
32:20 So those who are-- the false prophet,
32:22 their power has been broken
32:24 but there's got to be one last unity,
32:28 the branch and the wines.
32:32 You know, the root and the branch to be very clear.
32:35 Satan, the root and the branch is all those,
32:38 they connect in this final hurrah.
32:42 So, in fact, be very, very careful
32:44 because the judgments of God are very true.
32:47 That was such a good illustration, John.
32:49 That prison incarceration illustration of coming out.
32:54 You know, the people after the 1,000 years,
32:56 they've come out of the deception
32:58 of the false prophet and the beast,
32:59 and now they're coming to the influence of the one
33:02 who used them to deceive. Right.
33:04 And again, because they are in that same environment
33:06 they refuse to remove themselves
33:08 in the environment of these powers
33:10 and accept Jesus Christ as their savior.
33:12 They again go forth under the deception of Satan
33:14 one final time against the city of God.
33:16 We don't want anyone of you
33:18 to be a part of that group of people,
33:20 we want each one that's listening right now
33:22 to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior
33:25 and to be free from the bondage
33:26 and the influence that takes us in that direction of deception.
33:30 Entangled once again.
33:32 And the ladder end shall be worse for them
33:35 then in the beginning. So be very careful.
33:37 I think we'll probably stop there.
33:39 I had one about what happens to souls after death.
33:42 But I think we'll get a chance to cover that in our topic.
33:43 Okay. We're gonna talk about that
33:45 but thank you for your questions and comments.
33:47 We do appreciate that and as you can see we spent some time today
33:50 on two very important questions.
33:51 Both of them significant in context to eternity
33:55 as well as what's happening in a very deceptive world today.
33:58 If you've anymore questions you'd like to send to us,
34:00 send those questions to housecalls@3abn.org
34:04 housecalls@3abn.org and we do appreciate all you do
34:09 for this ministry to continue going forward.
34:12 And even if we've said something
34:13 that you want further clarification on,
34:16 say, "Remember when you said such and such,
34:18 could you make that even clear for me?"
34:20 We do appreciate that very, very much. Amen.
34:22 Well, James, take us into our topic.
34:24 We've been talking about hell and its context,
34:31 and whether or not the devil is in charge of it
34:34 and what's going to happen to people.
34:36 Are there gonna be souls withering in the fires of hell.
34:39 Just kind of catapult us into that.
34:40 I think one of the key verses
34:41 that is misunderstood in this subject
34:43 is in Revelation Chapter 14. Okay.
34:46 It's in the context of the Three Angels messages.
34:48 Revelation Chapter 14 brings us the everlasting gospel.
34:52 I call it God's last message for the world.
34:55 It has a message that comes through Three Angels.
34:58 And these Three Angels connect together.
35:01 We're on Three Angels broadcasting network
35:03 and so we find a very close connection
35:06 with the messages of Revelation Chapter 14.
35:09 But there's a little bit of difficulty with one of them
35:12 that people have because of the wording,
35:14 the verbiage of the message.
35:17 It's Revelation Chapter 14
35:19 and we're going to begin here in verse 9.
35:22 And I am going to read this
35:23 and I want you to listen very carefully
35:25 to what these verses are saying
35:26 because I think you'll catch the context of it.
35:29 I think you'll catch the message if you listen very carefully
35:32 and then as we explain this throughout the Bible.
35:36 Revelation Chapter 14:9,
35:37 "And the third angel followed them,
35:39 saying with a loud voice,
35:40 'If any man worship the beast and his image,
35:44 and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand.
35:47 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
35:49 which is poured out without mixture
35:51 into the cup of his indignation,
35:53 and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
35:57 in the presence of the holy angels,
36:00 and in the presence of the Lamb."
36:03 Verse 11, "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up
36:08 for ever and ever, and they have no rest day nor night,
36:14 who worship the beast and his image,
36:16 and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'
36:21 That's right. Now these are difficult texts, John.
36:23 I mean when you read them right out you think,
36:25 "hmm, they're gonna be tormented for ever and ever."
36:27 If you just read the text and just take a simple
36:29 plain view of the text, you can conclude that hell,
36:34 the place where people are burned,
36:35 you know, the place that Satan is in charge of,
36:38 where he's stoking the fire, hell is gonna continue
36:40 for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. Right.
36:43 Is that really what the Bible is teaching here? No.
36:46 And the concept of the stoking of the fires of hell
36:48 by Satan is even a misunderstanding
36:51 or misapplication because Satan himself is gonna be affected
36:55 by the fires of hell rather than
36:57 in charge of the fires of hell. Yes.
36:59 Thank God he's not in charge of anything. Amen.
37:03 I like it when Jesus called him
37:04 the prince of the power of the air.
37:08 He was in fact-- he did display much of his power
37:11 though when he poured out his wrath
37:12 upon the household of Job. Yes.
37:15 The tornados, the hurricanes, the fire that fell,
37:18 and many times--and the reason I cite that briefly is,
37:21 lot of times, even the insurance companies call
37:23 those the "Act of God."
37:25 Well, in fact, God is not a God
37:27 who sends destruction, not in that context.
37:30 Now, one day the destruction will come,
37:32 the strange act of God to destroy sinners and sin,
37:36 and repopulate earth and restore to its original condition.
37:41 And you know something, John, there's a difference
37:43 between the way that God works
37:44 and the way that Satan works. That's right.
37:46 Anytime God sends a judgment, He warns first.
37:49 Always, warns first. And it's redemptive.
37:51 Noah and the flood, the angels to Sodom and Gomorrah.
37:53 It's redemptive.
37:55 And even now He's warning of the plagues.
37:57 These are the last plagues in the wrath of God.
37:59 But Satan in Job--
38:00 Satan does it without warning. Destructive.
38:03 Just comes and destroys without any warning whatsoever.
38:06 God, it's redemptive.
38:07 In fact, there are times when God warns
38:09 and if we will respond, Jonah and Nineveh,
38:12 He forgoes, He pulls back.
38:14 Satan would never do that.
38:16 So there's a clear difference here
38:18 between God and Satan.
38:19 Like a new-- like any loving parent.
38:21 You know, you have children, don't you?
38:22 There are times when you say,
38:24 "Okay, don't do that or else..."
38:27 they don't do it, then the "or else..."
38:28 And I don't like the "or else."
38:30 Exactly. They don't like the "or else"
38:31 but I don't like the "or else" either.
38:32 I saw something the other day.
38:34 I forgot what it was, where two little girls
38:37 were just really at each other, at each other,
38:38 at each other, at each other and they were too young
38:40 to understand what the parent-- so the parent put together
38:42 some very artistic way of keeping them disciplined.
38:45 They said, "If you can't get along as cousins...
38:48 okay, that's it, I am calling the cousin police
38:51 and they're gonna arrest you for disobedience."
38:53 And these girls are too young,
38:55 "No, we don't want to go to jail. No, please."
38:59 "Then are you gonna love each other?"
39:00 "We're gonna love each other."
39:01 They ran to each other and hug each other and just say,
39:03 "I love you, cousin. I love you, cousin."
39:05 So, "Cousin police, I don't think we need you now.
39:09 I think they..." They were too young.
39:11 It was, so to speak, their Santa Claus.
39:13 But the parents use that in a redemptive way.
39:15 Yes, in a redemptive way.
39:16 They say, "You ought to love each other."
39:18 And they made up their own way,
39:19 you know, we'll hold the switch up as parent or
39:21 belt or say, timeout.
39:22 But they used the "cousin police."
39:24 And I can relate to that.
39:26 Especially the timeout one because my kids were different.
39:29 And what worked for one did not work for the other
39:31 and for one very social, very outgoing,
39:34 timeouts were huge punishment, you know?
39:36 Physical, no. Spanking, no.
39:38 No, just got firm-- but a timeout,
39:41 "Oh, no, no." So, yes.
39:43 I remember that. Yes.
39:44 Because timeouts are not--
39:46 "Well, you've got 40 more minutes."
39:49 "Mom, Dad, please." "Nope, that was your decision."
39:53 And so when you think of the fires
39:54 that are talked about here in Revelation,
39:57 the process is so vitally important for us
39:59 to continue to think in this context.
40:02 The process of the judgments that will be poured out,
40:05 the wrath of God, the fires that will consume the wicked,
40:09 the process is not eternal. The results--
40:13 Are eternal. Are eternal.
40:15 I would cite the Book of Jude,
40:17 some may be familiar with this passage,
40:19 but in the Book of Jude, only having one book,
40:23 it speaks about the eternal nature
40:25 of the judgments of God. Jude 1:7.
40:29 Just before Revelation. Right before Revelation.
40:32 "As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them
40:36 in similar manner to these, having given themselves
40:39 over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh,
40:44 or set forth as an example,
40:47 suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
40:51 Now you'll find in some translations
40:53 as eternal punishment.
40:55 That's exactly what it is.
40:57 It's not eternal punishing, it's eternal punishment.
41:00 Because we know today that Sodom and Gomorrah
41:03 are not burning any longer. Yes.
41:05 So the process is not what's eternal,
41:08 the results are eternal.
41:09 And I like this too because the context of Revelation 14
41:13 tells us that hell does not take place
41:16 under the supervision of Satan.
41:18 Hell takes place in the very presence of God
41:21 and the angels. That's right.
41:22 So this destruction is not something
41:24 that Satan is in charge of.
41:26 This destruction, this punishment,
41:28 this judgment is something that God is in charge of.
41:31 It is in the presence of the Holy Angels
41:33 and in the presence of the Lamb.
41:36 And this is really significant because we are going to be
41:39 in the presence of the Holy Angels
41:41 and in the presence of the Lamb for all eternity.
41:44 So this verse cannot be telling us
41:46 that hell is an eternally burning place
41:49 because that would mean that those who are lost
41:51 are going to be in the same place
41:53 that the saved off for all eternity.
41:55 The fires of hell, the experience of hell,
41:59 the judgment of hell is something that takes place
42:02 in God's presence because it is His presence
42:04 that to sin is a consuming fire.
42:07 To sin whatever found, God is a consuming fire.
42:09 In fact, we're told that in the Book of Hebrews chapter 13.
42:13 So I like this, this idea of the place of hell
42:16 and also the idea of the-- the extent,
42:20 in other words how long hell lasts,
42:23 for ever and ever and ever.
42:25 You know, I like this phrase because why we misunderstand it
42:29 sometimes that Bible clearly defines it,
42:32 I think about, for example,
42:34 the Book of Jonah. Oh, yeah.
42:36 Jonah and the whale.
42:37 Jonah and the fish and-- I say whale
42:39 because the whale is the biggest animal
42:41 that we think could have swallows Jonah.
42:42 We just--the Bible just says simply it was a fish.
42:45 But if you look at the prophecy of Jonah
42:47 and that book is found in the Minor Prophets
42:51 which are just before Matthew.
42:52 So if you get to Matthew
42:54 and you start looking for the Book of Jonah.
42:57 Going backwards, you're gonna go to Malachi,
42:59 and you gonna go to Zachariah, and Haggai,
43:01 and Habakkuk, and Nehemiah, and Micah
43:04 and you're gonna find the Book of Jonah.
43:06 It's right there, going to left of the Book of Matthew.
43:09 And Jonah is swallowed by this fish.
43:11 He is down in the belly of this fish
43:12 for three days and three nights.
43:15 But that's not the way he describes it.
43:17 He doesn't describe himself being in the belly of this fish
43:20 for three days and three nights.
43:22 You know, what he says?
43:23 He says here in verse 6 of Jonah Chapter 2.
43:27 He says, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains,
43:31 the earth with her bars was about me forever."
43:35 Now what's interesting about this is verse 2.
43:39 Jonah is praying to the Lord in this context.
43:42 And he said, "I cried by reason of mine
43:44 affliction unto the Lord, He heard me,
43:46 out of the belly of hell cried I,
43:49 and You heard my voice."
43:51 So Jonah is using the word hell in connection with forever.
43:56 And the New Testament
43:57 specifically the Book of Revelation
43:59 which is heavily saturated with Old Testament
44:02 symbolism and analogy is borrowing
44:06 from this experience of Jonah
44:08 and showing us what hell is like.
44:11 Hell is like an experience that is so bad,
44:14 that if you have to go through it for three days,
44:16 it's gonna feel like forever.
44:17 Right. Very good analogy.
44:20 We often go through experiences, John, don't we?
44:22 Where, because of the discomfort of the situation,
44:26 because of the environment that's surrounding us,
44:30 we feel like-- The intensity of it.
44:32 The intensity, "This is taking forever."
44:34 Might only take a few minutes. Right.
44:36 "This is taking forever."
44:37 Have you ever been in the situation
44:39 where you, for example--
44:40 Like an MRI. An MRI.
44:43 Or you're sitting in line
44:44 at the airport and it's taking forever.
44:46 You know, your plane's gonna leave
44:48 and you're anxious about it and this is taking forever.
44:50 Well it's not literally taking forever.
44:52 Right, and it's --
44:53 It--so many stories come to my mind
44:56 when you talk about taking forever.
44:57 It always seems like you're taking forever like--
45:01 they said there are three categories of impatient people.
45:04 Those wanting to get on a plane,
45:07 those wanting to get off a plane.
45:09 Those are the two categories
45:10 and those wanting to leave a restaurant
45:12 after they finish eating.
45:14 There are some people they just want to go out here
45:15 and all of a sudden the waiter that has come by
45:17 a number of times away just,
45:19 "How is your meal? How is your meal?"
45:20 It seems like when it's time for the check, they disappear.
45:22 Have you noticed it? I have noticed.
45:24 "I got to get back to work, I'm gonna be late."
45:26 And all of a sudden, "Is there's a person
45:28 by the name of Jenny that works here?"
45:30 "I think she left."
45:32 "Well, I need my check, I need to get out of here."
45:33 And so this impatience
45:35 and then to just take this to the next level,
45:37 sometimes while people are going through the suffering,
45:39 they are going through the difficulty,
45:41 the pain, the heartache, the tragedy of the moment,
45:44 they say, "It was like going through hell." Yes.
45:47 And C.D. Brooks, one of my favorite preachers,
45:50 he says that word hell is such a word
45:52 that has been given so many definitions.
45:54 For those who live in Alaska and it's a terribly cold winter.
45:57 They'll say, "It was cold as hell."
46:00 That's what he said.
46:01 Then he said for those who live in Brazil
46:03 and they have an usually hot summer,
46:04 "It's hot as hell."
46:07 And so you use that term so loosely--Loosely.
46:10 That people have lost the understanding
46:12 of what hell really is all about.
46:15 Hell is not something that we create in our own environment
46:18 but hell has specifically been designed by God
46:22 for the devil and his angels. Yes. I love that.
46:25 So when you think about hell,
46:27 it's no reason for us to even-- I always say,
46:29 there's no reason for us to break into their destruction.
46:33 I won't even say celebration.
46:34 There is no-- God has not ordained hell
46:36 for any of his children.
46:38 And that's where that-- isn't that, John,
46:40 how we connect the devil to hell.
46:42 The devil is connected to hell
46:43 because hell is a place that's been reserved for him.
46:46 The hell has been a place
46:47 that's been reserved for the angels.
46:49 And it's the devil that's sending out the invitations.
46:51 It's the devil that wants us to join him in hell.
46:53 God never intended that any human being
46:56 would ever experience that.
46:57 And I like that the fact that we can relate to it
47:01 in our experiences on this earth.
47:03 Because when I look in Revelation,
47:04 for example, chapter 21.
47:07 It talks about the new heaven and the new earth.
47:10 And this is a beautiful picture that God has given to us.
47:13 In Revelation Chapter 21:1, it says,
47:16 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
47:18 for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away,
47:20 and there was no more sea." That's right.
47:22 "And I, John, saw the Holy city New Jerusalem
47:23 coming down from God as a bride adorned
47:26 for her husband, out of heaven."
47:28 And then it goes on to say that God is going to dwell with us
47:31 and be with us--and then in verse 4 it says this,
47:33 "And God shall wipe away all tears
47:36 from their eyes." That's right.
47:37 "And there shall be no more pain--
47:39 excuse me no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying,
47:42 neither shall there be any more pain,"
47:43 I knew that was there,
47:45 "for the former things are passed away." That's right.
47:48 There is a lot of pain in this world
47:49 that reminds us of hell.
47:52 That reminds us the experience of hell.
47:55 In other words, the discomfort,
47:57 the intensity what Jonah went through
48:00 reminded him felt like hell,
48:02 felt like that experience of hell.
48:03 But ultimately when we think about the experience of hell,
48:08 we need to look to the cross of Calvary.
48:10 We need to look to what Jesus Christ experience
48:13 on the cross because He experienced for us,
48:16 the death that we deserved.
48:18 In Revelation, it's called the second death. Right.
48:20 And the lake of fire is called the second death.
48:23 And ultimately that symbolism
48:25 while we know it's literally in the sense,
48:27 2 Peter Chapter 3 tells us
48:29 that this world is gonna be consumed
48:31 with this fire and made new.
48:32 We also need to recognize that that represents
48:35 the anguish, the torment of separation from God.
48:39 When Jesus was on the cross, friends, He said,
48:41 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
48:44 He had a full realization of God's love,
48:46 God's acceptance through His entire life,
48:49 His entire existence, we can't even comprehend that.
48:51 And now He is separated from the Father,
48:53 from the one person who knows Him,
48:55 who understands Him, who sympathizes with Him,
48:57 who has been with Him, who has helped Him.
48:59 Now He is separated from the presence of the Father.
49:02 He doesn't feel as though God is with him.
49:04 And in that agony, He tastes, He experiences hell.
49:08 He experiences the second death.
49:10 The second death is a terrible thing.
49:12 You know, when we think about-- I mentioned a moment ago,
49:15 how hell is not designed for God's people.
49:17 There is also this concept that the soul will survive hell.
49:25 There's only one way that people can come up
49:27 with the idea that you'll be burning
49:28 for ever and ever and ever and ever
49:31 is that they believe that the soul somehow is eternal.
49:35 There is a passage, James,
49:36 it's often used to try to buttress that point.
49:40 But if you read the verse, in its entirety--
49:43 you know, a lot of times the first part of the verse
49:44 could say one thing
49:46 but when you read the whole verse
49:47 the story is actually the opposite. Yes.
49:50 Matthew 10:28, I want us to look at that very briefly.
49:54 Turn to Matthew 10:28 or even write that one down
49:56 because this is a passage that people often read and say,
50:00 "See, I told you that there are gonna be souls in hell
50:03 that will not be destroyed."
50:04 And I said, "No, read the whole verse."
50:08 Here is the part that is often read
50:10 and somebody read this to me
50:12 once over the phone and said,
50:13 "well, now do you--,"
50:15 don't forget this is the second part.
50:16 "And do not fear of those who kill the body
50:19 but cannot kill the soul."
50:21 They say, "see there. Soul will never die."
50:24 But now read the rest.
50:26 "But rather fear him which is able to destroy
50:29 both the soul and body in hell." Okay, okay.
50:34 Is the soul eternal? No.
50:36 Ezekiel 18:4, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
50:42 So this whole idea that-- go ahead.
50:44 Oh, I was gonna say in Genesis 2:17,
50:48 "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die."
50:50 Surely die. So there is no eternal soul.
50:54 There is nothing about us that's eternal.
50:57 As a matter of fact, the one of the passages
50:59 that's often left out when it comes to things
51:00 that are eternal, my favorite one, Romans 6:23.
51:05 Romans 6:23 is kind of like another John 3:16.
51:09 Romans 6:23, it says, "The wages of sin is death.
51:16 But the gift of God is eternal life
51:20 through Jesus Christ our Lord."
51:22 Now get it, the wages of sin is death,
51:25 not the continuance of life in hell.
51:28 The gift of God is eternal life.
51:30 Point, how can you burn forever if you can't live for ever.
51:35 Good point. I love this.
51:37 I love this and from Genesis to Revelation
51:39 we get the picture.
51:40 Genesis, tree of life,
51:42 parting of the tree of life gives you eternal life.
51:45 Only God is in Himself immortal. Only God.
51:49 So eating of the tree of life gives us eternal life.
51:52 So Adam and Eve sinned, what happened?
51:54 We were taken out of the garden.
51:56 The way was barred by angels with swords, why?
51:59 So we could not partake of the tree of life
52:01 because in partaking of the tree of life as sinners,
52:03 we would immortalize sin. Right.
52:05 So then you go through the whole redemption story,
52:07 you get to the Book of Revelation,
52:09 the very last chapter, Revelation Chapter 22:1.
52:12 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life,
52:15 clear as crystal, proceeding
52:17 out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
52:19 In the midst of the street of it,
52:20 and on either side of the river,
52:22 there was a tree of life,
52:23 which bare twelve manner of fruits,
52:25 and yielded her fruit every month,
52:27 and the leaves of the tree
52:29 were for the healing of the nations."
52:30 Friends, the tree of life
52:32 is going to be restored. That's right.
52:33 And the immortality, the immortal life
52:36 that we're given in God is connected to this tree,
52:39 to the fruit of the tree of life that we partake of
52:43 and therefore we are restored to the eternity
52:46 that God intended for us to experience when He created us.
52:50 For some reason-- and I have seen
52:52 this resistance more in the Christian world
52:54 than in an non-Christian world
52:55 because people that are living an unrighteous life,
52:59 they don't want to be talking about the eternal fires of hell.
53:02 That's not their favorite topic. No doubt.
53:04 But for some reason, some Christians seem unhappy
53:08 that we would say,
53:10 "Well, sinners are not going to burn forever."
53:13 So let me pose the question.
53:17 Why do we sense that in many denominations
53:21 there is this persistent refusal to accept the fact
53:26 that the fires will go out?
53:29 Why is it that God seems to be the one
53:31 that is being maligned rather than
53:36 being exalted as a God of love
53:38 who doesn't want sinners to be destroyed?
53:41 You read Ezekiel 18, Ezekiel 33,
53:43 you'll find-- He says,
53:44 "I have no pleasure--" No pleasure.
53:46 "In the death of anyone who dies,"
53:49 says the Lord, therefore turn and live
53:52 but if they're burning forever and ever, it's opposite.
53:55 He does have pleasure.
53:56 I think part of it, John, part of the reason
53:57 for that the question you're asking is because
54:00 Christians for some reason are afraid
54:03 that if we don't teach eternally burning fire,
54:06 we're going to lose motivation for salvation
54:10 and for being in heaven
54:12 and for getting people to accept Christ as their savior.
54:16 That this is part of the motivation factor
54:19 that is used in witnessing and evangelizing people
54:23 that we tell them,
54:25 "Hey, you're gonna burn for ever and ever."
54:26 You don't want to burn for ever, do you? Right.
54:28 I remember-- and he's not a Christian.
54:30 He is actually a Muslim.
54:32 But I remember Muhammad Ali, in Readers Digest,
54:35 he had an article
54:37 and he gave an illustration.
54:38 He had a match and he lit it.
54:40 And he put to his finger.
54:42 And he said, "Ouch! That burns."
54:44 He says, "I don't want to burn like that
54:46 forever and ever and ever."
54:48 And so here's this motivation but here's what the Bible says,
54:52 in contrast, 2 Corinthians Chapter 5:14.
54:56 It says, "The love of God constraints
55:00 or motivates us." That's right.
55:01 So a transition has to take place.
55:03 At some point every single person in this world,
55:06 Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist,
55:09 at some point every single person in this world
55:11 has to transition from being afraid of God
55:15 to understanding the love of God.
55:17 Not a God who wants to burn people forever and ever
55:19 if you don't follow him and obey him,
55:21 but a God who himself received
55:23 and experienced the torment of separation,
55:26 the hell of being separated forever from life
55:29 and from the God who loves us
55:31 and was willing to pass out of an existence in our place,
55:35 a God who motivates our hearts because He loves us
55:39 and draws us to Him because of His great love
55:41 rather than a God who warns us
55:44 and causes us to fear him and therefore by fear
55:47 and trepidation move us into the kingdom of God.
55:49 You know what's amazing about that?
55:51 God is not setting up this fire escape religion,
55:54 this concept that there is gonna be
55:57 this eternally burning hell
55:59 and there is nothing you can do it to get out of that,
56:01 He has come to give us life
56:03 and to give it to us more abundantly.
56:05 As a matter of fact,
56:06 you know, the passage in the Bible that really moves
56:09 on my heart so much is not just John 3:16,
56:13 but John 3:17, "For God sent not His son into the world
56:17 to condemn the world but that the world
56:19 through him might be saved." Amen.
56:22 And so often people are brought into this idea
56:25 that God wants to condemn us,
56:26 God wants to destroy us.
56:28 But He wants to give us life
56:29 and give it to us so much more abundantly.
56:31 Yeah. I like this again Roman-- Revelation, excuse me,
56:34 chapter 15 describes the redeemed understanding
56:38 on a sea of glass mingled with fire. Okay.
56:42 A sea of glass mingled with fire.
56:44 The fire escape idea is that we're escaping
56:47 from this fire that is different or separate from God.
56:50 Now God himself is a consuming fire to sin
56:52 and we're gonna dwell in his very presence.
56:54 But only those who have accepted the Christ,
56:56 put their trust in him can dwell in the very presence of God
56:59 in the fire of God's presence in the fire of His love.
57:03 I never thought about that but satan,
57:05 before he fell, Lucifer, before he fell he walk back
57:09 and forth in midst of the fire of God.
57:11 Now when we are perfect we will be able to exist
57:14 in the midst of a God who is a consuming fire
57:17 but he is only consuming our sinfulness
57:20 so that we could have His righteousness eternally.
57:23 What a wonderful topic to talk about,
57:24 the glory and the righteousness of Christ
57:27 and, friends, when Jesus comes to make a house call
57:30 we pray that you will be found in His righteousness eternally.
57:34 May God bless you.


Home

Revised 2014-12-17