Participants: Zeno Charles - Marcel, Don Mackintosh
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000074
00:44 Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime.
00:47 I'm glad that you've joined us today and I'm also glad that
00:50 Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel is with us.
00:52 Welcome, Doctor.
00:53 Thank you, it's good to be here.
00:55 We're going to be talking today about a subject that really
00:59 touches the lives of many Americans,
01:01 that being heart disease.
01:02 And heart disease, I believe, is the number one
01:05 killer in America, is that right?
01:06 It is the number one killer, that is correct.
01:07 But today you're probably saying "We've heard a lot about
01:09 heart disease. "
01:10 Not today's program you haven't heard about!
01:13 Because we're going to be talking about heart disease and
01:16 little known factors that relate to heart disease.
01:19 We're going to review some of the regular ones but we're going
01:21 to look at some little known ones and it will be well worth
01:23 your while to stay.
01:25 Now if you're watching today and you need to have information
01:27 about how to get a hold of the Lifestyle Center of America
01:30 one of the best ways is over the internet -
01:33 www. lifestylecenter. org or you can call us here at
01:40 Three Angels Broadcasting Network and we can give you
01:43 the contact information over the phone.
01:45 But that's fairly easy to remember - lifestyle center.
01:49 You treat heart disease there as it relates to lifestyle.
01:52 Isn't that right?
01:53 That's correct.
01:54 And we have the principle of working with first things first.
01:57 So lifestyle is very important in preventing and in treating
02:01 heart disease - particularly the atherosclerotic heart disease
02:05 which is the kind that is responsible for most of the
02:09 death in this country.
02:11 So you are a doctor of internal medicine, that means you deal
02:14 with a lot of patients that are very acute situations, ICU or
02:18 intensive care, or cardiac care units, in hospital settings,
02:23 those types of things.
02:24 Then you also do things that can help people avoid that.
02:27 And the thing that has come up recently, probably within
02:30 the last 40 years or so has been this whole idea of
02:33 risk factors.
02:34 What is a risk factor and what are the common risk factors
02:37 for heart disease?
02:38 A risk factor is just some thing or some attribute that a person
02:41 may have or maybe in contact with that increases the person's
02:45 likelihood of getting a disease or getting a condition.
02:49 The typical risk factors that most people would already be
02:53 familiar with for heart disease include things like:
02:57 cigarette smoking, lack of exercise or what I call
02:59 slothfulness, high cholesterol, some of their family history,
03:06 so if they have a parent or a brother or sister who has
03:11 premature heart disease then they are at increased risk
03:14 for having heart disease as well, obesity, diabetes,
03:17 high blood pressure.
03:18 These are all typical risk factors.
03:21 How many risk factors do you know of?
03:23 Someone told me there was over than 20 now that they have
03:26 Actually there are over 20.
03:27 Some of them are major risk factors and some are
03:30 minor risk factors.
03:31 What I would like to do today is to talk a little bit about
03:36 some of the less well known but still very important
03:39 risk factors.
03:40 Well, let's talk about those.
03:41 What are some of the less known but very important risk factors?
03:44 One of them is homocysteine and that we could have one or two
03:49 programs just talking about that.
03:50 But high homocysteine levels in the blood is a risk factor
03:55 for heart disease.
03:56 This was known around the same time that cholesterol was coming
03:59 on the picture, on the screen.
04:01 But cholesterol kind of eclipsed the homocysteine stuff and
04:07 that didn't reemerge as a serious problem until just a
04:11 few years ago.
04:12 None the less homocysteine is an amino acid or one of the
04:15 building blocks of the proteins that can build up in our blood
04:19 and it is associated with an increased risk of heart attacks
04:23 and of strokes.
04:24 So what does it do?
04:25 Your homocysteine is in your blood and it's cruising around
04:28 in it's little car - what does it do?
04:29 Does it slam into the wall, break the windows, got a
04:33 sledge hammer in it's hand - what does it do?
04:35 As far as we can tell, what it does it irritates the lining
04:38 of the blood vessel walls and penetrates the blood vessel
04:42 wall to set up a reaction in there.
04:44 And that reaction then is an atherosclerotic reaction or
04:49 it develops a plaque.
04:51 That plaque then can rupture and cause a stroke if it's one
04:54 of the arteries in the neck or in the brain or if the artery is
04:59 is in the heart then it can cause heart attack.
05:01 So are there like foods that we eat that are high in
05:04 homocysteine or what is it that causes it to elevate?
05:07 There are some foods that are high in another amino acid
05:10 that then leads to homocysteine being high.
05:12 Those foods are foods that are high in the
05:16 amino acid methionine
05:18 Now methionine is found abundantly in foods of animal
05:23 origin or flesh foods - so meats, milk, cheese, and eggs -
05:27 they tend to be higher in methionine than foods of
05:31 plant based.
05:32 Now that's the methionine side.
05:35 But there are some other factors such as lack of some of their
05:39 vitamins like vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folic acid.
05:42 If you don't have this in your diet or it's not adequate in
05:47 the diet, then that can lead to an accumulation of the
05:50 homocysteine which is produced by the methionine.
05:53 Ok, so let's talk about that a minute.
05:55 The B12 then being something that many times we hear
05:58 vegetarians don't get enough of are those who are on
06:00 plant based foods.
06:01 Does that mean they are at more risk for their homocysteine
06:04 going up?
06:05 Some people it would be if they absolutely aren't getting
06:10 vitamin B12 enough in their diet and not supplementing it either.
06:14 Those people would be at increased risk of having higher
06:17 homocysteine levels.
06:18 What people usually don't realize is that the body
06:21 does not make vitamin B12.
06:23 Animals don't make vitamin B12.
06:26 We have to get vitamin B12 from something that we ingest.
06:29 For people who eat meat, when they eat the meat they get the
06:33 vitamin B12 from the meat or they drink milk and they get
06:35 it that way.
06:36 For people who are total vegetarians the best way
06:42 to get it is to supplement it in the diet using one of these
06:46 little easily available supplements that will be
06:49 dissolved in the mouth.
06:50 So like a B complex vitamin?
06:54 Actually I don't recommend using B complex vitamins because
07:00 those are usually in pills that people swallow.
07:02 B12 to be most effective ought to be best
07:06 dissolved in the mouth.
07:08 So there are B12 preparations either liquids, some are sprays
07:12 or some are just these little dots that you can crush, and
07:16 the amount that you need is really very small,
07:18 very little bit.
07:19 It's. 1 micro grams per day somebody needs and that's
07:22 a really small amount.
07:23 One of the ways that I tell patients that they can take this
07:26 is to get some B12 supplement, crush it, keep it in a little
07:30 vile on the dining table or kitchen counter and once a day
07:37 take a clean toothpick, stick it into this crushed tablet,
07:43 whatever is stuck on the toothpick that's about how much
07:45 you need for the day.
07:47 And then of course you discard the toothpick.
07:49 What about these other substitute milks and different
07:54 things that have B12 in them?
07:55 If they have the B12 supplemented then of course
07:58 that's a way to get it as well.
08:00 Now, just a question, and we're asking because it relates to
08:05 Because if you're low in that then that elevates, like you
08:08 mentioned, in the blood stream.
08:10 Where do the animals get their vitamin B12?
08:13 They get their vitamin B12 from the bacteria that they have or
08:18 if it's a carnivorous animal it will get it from animals
08:22 that it eats.
08:23 Ok, just wondered where they got that.
08:26 So, homocysteine then needs to be low.
08:28 Do you at the Lifestyle Center of America
08:31 check for homocysteine?
08:33 We check just about every patient that comes through our
08:35 center who is at risk for a coronary artery disease or
08:40 We check their homocysteine levels which means most of the
08:42 people who come there.
08:43 We also have a good track record in terms of what happens even
08:49 within 7 days of the homocysteines being lowered
08:54 significantly in most of the people who come through
08:57 just by changing their lifestyle to the way we do.
09:00 This was published in the
09:01 Journal of the American Medical Association
09:03 back in 1997.
09:05 Is that right?
09:06 If you're wanting to lower that homocysteine level
09:10 the Lifestyle Center of America or a program similar to that
09:13 would be helpful.
09:14 What are some other less known but very important risk factors
09:17 for heart disease?
09:18 Another one that has emerged recently was kind of suspected
09:23 maybe 10-15 years ago and more and more we see greater evidence
09:27 of that, is infection by an organism called
09:31 Chlamydia pneumonia.
09:33 Now this is a bug that we can pick up in a variety of ways.
09:38 The most important being through sexual transmission.
09:42 This bug then sets up an inflammatory response on the
09:48 person's arteries.
09:49 Then responding to this inflammation develops
09:55 So extra marital affairs of the heart are bad for the heart.
10:00 That's correct.
10:01 Ok, you put it that way. - laughter -
10:02 Besides then the sexually transmitted diseases, which
10:07 I think they're a very large problem in America.
10:10 I know that when I worked in an emergency department
10:12 as a nurse, we saw a lot of people with Chlamydia.
10:15 How big a problem is this Chlamydia in America?
10:19 It's a fairly sizable problem.
10:21 Most people who are working in the field realize that
10:25 herpes is probably number one and Chlamydia is a close
10:30 number two.
10:31 Now, Chlamydia, then what does it do?
10:32 Does it get into your heart?
10:34 It doesn't have to get into the heart necessarily, but it
10:37 circulates in the blood.
10:38 And its circulation in the blood somehow triggers the
10:42 inflammatory response so the body is reacting against the
10:45 Chlamydia actually is what seems to stimulate the production of
10:52 atherosclerotic plaque or hardening of the arteries.
10:54 Now we have been able to isolate Chlamydia type particles in
11:00 atherosclerotic plaque as well as finding other markers of
11:06 inflammation of the inflammatory response in the blood.
11:08 The higher these markers are for inflammation often times the
11:12 higher the risk of heart disease.
11:15 So I'm sure the sexually transmitted diseases of course
11:18 probably effect a lot of ages, but probably those that are
11:22 young that are just starting out thinking about those kind of
11:25 things, they probably just don't understand that what they could
11:29 do as a young person can be affecting their heart.
11:31 They can develop heart disease from it.
11:32 That's correct.
11:33 My advise to any young person is the best way is
11:38 the Bible way.
11:39 That is you stay away from sexual activity until the
11:43 appropriate time which is when you are married.
11:45 We have about 2 minutes and you have a another couple here.
11:50 What are the other less known but important factors before
11:53 we go to our break?
11:54 Well, one of the issues, and perhaps we can spend a great
11:58 deal of time talking about this one is stress.
12:02 In the past, people knew about the Type A personality and so on
12:06 and the fact that people are under a lot of stress seemed
12:09 to have more problems with coronary artery disease
12:13 or atherosclerosis, heart attacks and others.
12:15 This has been shown to be not quite as true
12:19 as it was thought before.
12:21 So just because I get things done and I'm driven and all that
12:24 doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to have heart disease?
12:26 That's correct, it doesn't mean that you're going to have
12:28 heart disease...
12:29 The CEO's, the Leo Koko types, or the others that are in charge
12:32 of the big corporations are they usually in good health?
12:34 Well, some of them actually have very good health programs
12:40 in that they follow a very disciplined pattern -
12:43 they exercise, they eat more appropriately.
12:46 You'd be surprised that the health of many of the executive
12:52 types is actually quite good because these people are paying
12:57 attention to what keeps them in tip-top shape so that their
13:00 minds can be clear so they can be thinking and making critical
13:03 decisions as best as they can.
13:04 So everybody really should be thinking like a CEO.
13:08 You are in charge, your are the chief executive officer
13:12 of all those cells in your body, over the one billion neurons
13:16 in your brain, you are important.
13:18 Ok, so stress then is important but it's more as it relates
13:22 to different factors other than Type A personality and what not.
13:25 That's correct.
13:26 In 1972 there were two researchers that came up with a
13:30 Type A issue.
13:31 That was found a few years later to not really pan out.
13:35 And another group, the Western Kilometer Study Group, actually
13:39 demonstrated that there's another set of factors
13:44 within the set of individuals who have Type A personality
13:47 that actually might be the thing that produces the heart disease.
13:53 We're talking with Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel
13:55 and he has some other factors that are very important that
13:59 he has not revealed to us concerning heart disease.
14:01 They're very important and so we hope that you join us
14:04 when we come back.
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15:07 Welcome back.
15:09 We're talking with Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel
15:11 from the Lifestyle Center of America
15:13 there in beautiful Oklahoma positioned right there on the
15:17 top of that beautiful mountain and all those trees
15:20 and different things.
15:21 People just get healthy even seeing pictures of that
15:24 So we're told.
15:25 And you get to live there and to minister there.
15:29 We've been talking about heart disease, about risk factors that
15:32 all of us know about - high blood pressure, obesity,
15:36 diabetes, all these different kind of things.
15:39 But then you started to identify some less known but very
15:44 important risk factors, those being Chlamydia, homocysteine,
15:48 inflammatory processes that are involved with that, and then
15:52 we introduced stress.
15:53 But there was something about stress that we kind of left
15:56 that's very important.
15:58 What is that very important thing that we can't be involved
16:04 with if we want to avoid heart disease?
16:06 Let me set the stage a little bit.
16:08 Let's suppose, the viewers at home, let's suppose you had a
16:13 very important appointment and you had to take a flight before
16:19 you got to your appointment to get there in time.
16:21 Now you schedule the flight so you get there a half hour
16:26 You had arranged for somebody to pick you up and take you to
16:28 your important appointment.
16:30 Ok, I think I've been there before.
16:33 Alright, so everything is working alright.
16:35 They call for people to enter the plane on time...
16:39 This must be not like my normal carrier - laughter -
16:42 Everything is working out fine except as you're getting on the
16:47 plane, you realize that they are having a little scurry because
16:51 someone who is supposed to be on the plane is running late.
16:55 Oh, and they tell you that.
16:57 And you find out, you hear them talking, and when you see
17:01 here comes this person coming along with multiple packages.
17:05 Those in the overhead bin and underneath and underneath
17:09 your bin...
17:10 I mean much too much.
17:12 I have met this person! - laughter -
17:14 Have you ever been that person?
17:15 Ohhh - I hate to say I think I probably have! - laughter -
17:20 So here comes the person and the attendants try to expedite
17:25 the situation.
17:26 You have gone on the plane.
17:28 You're sitting down.
17:29 You know it's time for them to close the doors.
17:32 The person comes on the plane.
17:35 They're not finding a seat.
17:37 They're trying to stuff things up over the overhead bins.
17:40 They're trying to stuff things underneath and things just
17:43 aren't working out.
17:45 Now I have been in that flight!
17:48 Now how are you feeling as I'm talking about this?
17:51 Ahhh... I'm feeling a little anxious!
17:56 Ok, a little bit anxious.
17:57 I'm feeling a little bit frustrated!
17:58 All right, finally the person is sat down...
18:02 And they sit right next to you!
18:03 Maybe! - Laughter -
18:05 And now the plane backs out.
18:10 You head down the runway and as you're taxing out you stop.
18:15 The plane broke?
18:18 The plane stopped... no, nothing broken.
18:19 You wait.
18:20 So you're not hearing anything from the pilot - nothing.
18:24 You look at your watch.
18:26 Minutes are ticking by.
18:28 You don't hear anything.
18:29 Finally the pilot comes on and the pilot says something like
18:34 this, "Ladies and gentlemen, we're sorry to inform you but
18:39 because of our delay in pushing back from the terminal we lost
18:44 our slot and it looks as though it's going to be about
18:46 15 minutes before we can get back into the queue. "
18:48 And you say?
18:50 15 minutes plus we already lost some time!
18:55 How are you feeling?
18:57 "Perfect peace have they that love Thy law and nothing
19:01 shall offend them. "
19:03 I'm looking at those texts right now and I'm
19:06 claiming those promises.
19:08 So the flight takes off and everything is working all right.
19:10 The pilot says, "Look, it looks as though we have a tail wind.
19:13 We're going to be getting there actually on time.
19:16 So what we lost, don't worry about it, we're going to be
19:19 getting there on time. "
19:20 How does that sound to you now?
19:21 Ohhhh, I'm feeling much better!
19:23 Oh, relief!
19:24 I'm saying, "Why did I spend all of that energy being upset?"
19:26 If there's a difference between how you're feeling now
19:28 and how you were feeling when we were talking about what was
19:34 going on, you know the delays, that highlights that there is a
19:37 difference in what's going on physiologically
19:40 on the inside of you.
19:41 You see, stress is not an external thing.
19:43 Stress is actually an inside job.
19:46 Now, what the researchers have been able to demonstrate
19:49 is that this thing that's inside of us...
19:52 That knot in the stomach.
19:54 It is actually a greater predictor of your dying of a
20:00 heart attack than all of the other risk factors combined!
20:06 So that knot in the stomach, that feeling of frustration,
20:08 and all that, if that happens a lot you are
20:11 setting yourself up.
20:12 You are setting yourself up.
20:13 You see the issue is not just what we eat,
20:15 it's actually what's eating us!
20:18 The issue isn't just one of hardening of the arteries.
20:23 But it is actually one of hardening of the heart.
20:26 Because this thing that's inside of us, if I ask you, "Where does
20:30 it come from," what would you say?
20:32 It's got to be your mind.
20:33 Yes, it's just generated in there.
20:35 Now we can learn how to take care of it in the sense we
20:39 can learn to change our behavior.
20:41 In other words, we don't stomp up and down in the airplane.
20:44 And if the person sits next to us we don't just turn our backs
20:47 to the person.
20:48 We actually talk to them and try to calm down.
20:50 So we might learn how to behave even though the situation may
20:54 not be an optimal situation.
20:55 But it doesn't negate the fact that this thing
20:58 is on the inside.
20:59 Now let me ask you a question.
21:00 You are a Christian physician.
21:02 And so I assume you read your Bible and believe in Christ.
21:05 That's correct.
21:07 Did Christ have that kind of anger when He saw the
21:09 money changers in the temple and they were doing things
21:13 in church they shouldn't have done?
21:14 I believe not.
21:16 I believe what He had, this righteous indignation, was one
21:20 that was mixed with compassion.
21:22 He had compassion for the people who did not know that what they
21:28 were doing was wrong.
21:29 See, on the cross one of the things that He said was,
21:31 "Father for give them. "
21:33 Now He could have been very upset with what they were doing
21:36 that was very unjust.
21:37 But He said, "Father forgive them. "
21:39 The issue with this thing that we have inside, it has been
21:44 characterized, scientifically, as hostility.
21:47 And there are 3 components to the hostility that is
21:50 associated with atherosclerosis and hardening of the arteries.
21:53 If you have these you know that you have the
21:54 wrong kind of thing going on.
21:56 What are those three?
22:00 Those three things are: anger - actual rage,
22:06 aggression - that is when we act out...
22:10 So you're going down the road, you get angry at that person and
22:13 you swerve your car - and that's aggression?
22:14 That's aggression.
22:16 And the third is cynicism.
22:20 In other words you get there and you say,
22:21 "Well, I just had a great trip today. "
22:23 Or you don't believe.
22:25 You're not believing that everything
22:28 is going to go all right.
22:29 You're cynical - This flight?
22:31 No, this flight is not going to get there on time
22:33 because it never has.
22:34 If you have those elements that's damaging your heart?
22:37 That's damaging your heart, that's correct.
22:38 Now the issue then becomes one of how do we change that?
22:42 I don't know too many people that are really able to change
22:46 their minds for themselves.
22:48 Now we say we change our minds all the time, that is we tarry
22:52 between two decisions and we choose one or we choose another.
22:55 But to really change your heart on the inside,
22:58 that's something that requires special care.
23:01 See, we need a surgeon to do our heart surgery.
23:05 That surgeon is actually the Holy Spirit.
23:08 He can change our hearts and take out our stony hearts
23:12 and replace it with a heart of flesh.
23:15 And then we're able to look at these situations not with anger,
23:20 ire, frustration, and aggression but actually we're able to have
23:27 peace - peace that passeth understanding.
23:29 You are a scientist.
23:33 Change the hats now.
23:35 Just a couple minutes ago I said you're a Christian physician
23:39 and I asked you about that anger.
23:40 But now I'm saying you're a scientist.
23:42 Is there science behind what you just said - the Holy Spirit,
23:45 forgiveness, those type of things?
23:46 While there isn't science to state that we can prove the
23:51 Holy Spirit by science and things like that, what we can
23:54 see is that we have evidence of people whose lives are changed.
24:00 We know that, for instance, part of the issue with
24:05 hostility, anger, and aggression it's associated with a
24:09 characteristic that people have that is identifiable
24:11 scientifically provable, that is people who have a difficult
24:15 time forgiving.
24:16 Now I have to ask, where does this desire to forgive,
24:21 where does forgiveness come from?
24:23 And scientifically we can't prove where it comes from.
24:26 All we know is that people either are able to forgive
24:30 or they're not able to forgive.
24:32 Now we have to go to extra scientific resources to find out
24:37 about this thing of the heart.
24:39 And in the Bible account we find out that forgiveness actually
24:43 comes from God.
24:44 As we are forgiven, as we understand that we are forgiven
24:48 it is much easier for us to forgive.
24:50 Do you see a lot of people in your practice there at the
24:53 Lifestyle Center of America that really the issue is
24:56 lack of forgiveness and this kind of anger?
24:59 I wouldn't say a lot but a significant number.
25:02 And what do you do?
25:03 What are the things that you do?
25:04 I'm that person now, what would you say to me and why?
25:08 The thing is you may come with a question and say, "Here I am
25:13 I'm working out, I'm eating right, etcetera, how come I
25:17 just had a heart attack?"
25:18 Now the easy way to explain this is to start off with
25:21 the fact that you have genetic predispositions as well
25:25 to having heart disease.
25:26 But after getting through that and we talk about genes
25:31 and so on, you tell me, "Look my dad, he's 93 years old
25:36 with no problem, my mom she's 87 with no problem.
25:39 I have no one in my family who ever had heart disease.
25:42 My cholesterol is normal, my homocysteine is normal,
25:46 I have no C-reactive protein elevation in my blood, my
25:50 Chlamydia titer is very low, so what's the deal?!"
25:54 And while you're sitting there and you're talking to me,
25:57 I can sense, I can see that you have difficulty.
26:02 Now I can give you a written test of 46 items that's a subset
26:08 of the MMPI or the
26:10 Minnesota Multiphase Personality Inventory.
26:13 And how you respond on that test will tell me whether you
26:17 have high hostility, whether it's primarily in the anger,
26:21 aggression, or whether it's in the cynicism range.
26:24 And if that is the case, then we have to deal with it.
26:28 And the way we deal with it is I will have to ask you, "Are you
26:32 willing to forgive this person or that situation?"
26:37 Because you will have stories of things that are really
26:40 bothering you.
26:41 That's how people are.
26:42 They would have these things that they are carrying around.
26:45 It might have been something that mom did when you were a
26:49 little boy or something like that.
26:50 And we don't have to get into all the
26:52 psychoanalysis of those details.
26:54 But what we need to do is...
26:55 We need to identify them.
26:57 They need to be specific things, specific issues, you help them
26:59 identify those perhaps and talk about them.
27:02 Is it true that the situation, that is the other person,
27:11 that you talk about, may not change
27:13 but you can in fact change.
27:14 That's correct.
27:16 You see forgiveness is actually something that you can have
27:20 that liberates you and liberates the other person as well.
27:23 Forgiveness is really a matter of love.
27:26 Thank you Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel.
27:29 We've been talking with the doctor about heart disease
27:32 and things that really we don't usually talk about as related to
27:35 heart disease.
27:36 Today we've really focused in on the last half of this
27:38 program on anger.
27:39 Are you angry?
27:40 Are you struggling with something?
27:42 Is there someone you need to forgive?
27:43 Or some situation, some person you need to forgive?
27:47 We encourage you to do that and do it now.
27:50 If you need more information about how to do that, contact
27:52 us here at 3ABN or the Lifestyle Center of America.
27:55 We hope that as a result that you'll have health that will
27:58 last for a lifetime.