Health for a Lifetime

Hypertension

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Don Mckintosh (Host), David DeRose

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Series Code: HFAL

Program Code: HFAL000173


00:49 Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime.
00:50 I'm your host Don Mackintosh.
00:52 We're glad you've joined us today out of your busy schedule.
00:55 There's a big problem in America called hypothyroidism and to
00:59 talk with us about this today is Dr. David DeRose.
01:01 Dr. DeRose is from Oklahoma.
01:04 He has a ministry that couples both ministry's spiritual
01:08 aspects and actual treatment of physical conditions called
01:13 compasshealth. net
01:14 Dr. DeRose is both board certified in internal medicine
01:21 and preventive medicine.
01:22 He spent his life looking at natural and also medical
01:26 approaches to many of the diseases.
01:28 But also you're interested in the spiritual aspects too.
01:30 No question, I mean, the Lord got my attention early in my
01:35 life as a college student.
01:37 When He turned my life around He really opened my mind up
01:43 to caring for my own health.
01:45 I was not a very healthy person.
01:47 I didn't have a good level of health.
01:50 It wasn't like I was in the hospital a lot but I had plenty
01:53 of problems even as a relatively young person.
01:55 The Lord ministered to my life and He's given me the privilege
02:00 of ministering to many people through medical practice.
02:03 This venture of compasshealth. net
02:05 that puts your whole family together.
02:08 You're all involved in ministry.
02:09 I think your wife is a physician, is that correct?
02:12 My wife is a physician.
02:13 She's actually the business manager of the company.
02:15 So she's more behind the scenes.
02:17 CompassHealth takes on a number of evangelistic projects,
02:21 at least one major overseas project each year.
02:25 That's part of what we do.
02:26 We do that as a family.
02:28 That's what we've done the last couple of years.
02:30 Wonderful!
02:31 Today we're going to talk about hypothyroidism.
02:34 Some of the things we talked about you'll probably have up
02:36 on your website.
02:37 If people go to compasshealth. net
02:40 they'll be able to read more details about what we're
02:44 covering.
02:45 What is hypothyroidism and how big a problem is it?
02:48 Don, it's a huge problem.
02:50 Hypothyroidism effects some 2% of women across the board
02:55 in our country.
02:56 Only about a 10th as many men but once we get to be over 60
02:59 those figures jump dramatically about 6% of women and 2% of men.
03:04 So we're talking about a large problem.
03:06 The other part of your question what is it, hypothyroidism
03:11 is really all that the term means.
03:12 Hypo means low, thyroid has to do with production of a hormone
03:17 from this gland at the base of our necks.
03:19 So it's low production of an important metabolic hormone
03:23 known as thyroid hormone.
03:25 Thyroid hormone is kind of like maestro - it coordinates
03:28 a lot of different things.
03:29 That's right.
03:30 If your thyroid hormone function is low it is going to tend to
03:33 slow down a variety of functions in your body.
03:37 Your pulse can be slower, your energy level can be lower,
03:40 you can tend toward depression, you can be frankly depressed,
03:44 constipation, all these things can go along with
03:46 low thyroid functions.
03:48 So what's this hoarseness and thickening of the tongue?
03:50 Is that true?
03:52 Yes, actually hoarseness can be vocal changes.
03:54 There can actually be in bad hypothyroidism.
03:57 There can be a build up in the tissues, a thickening
04:02 of the tongue as well as changes in the skin of the legs.
04:06 A number of things can occur in a condition called myxedema.
04:09 Hair loss?
04:11 Hair loss, yes.
04:13 And you look at my head, Don, and you laugh
04:16 But the hair loss that you get is a classic pattern.
04:19 You tend to loose the outer portion of your eyebrows.
04:23 You're exactly right.
04:29 If a woman, remember it's more common in women about 10 times
04:33 more common in younger women than younger men, so if a woman
04:37 is noticing lot's of hair coming out this could be a sign of
04:40 hypothyroidism.
04:41 Usually going along with lower energy level.
04:44 Weight gain, huge issue in our country.
04:47 Many people have weight problems.
04:49 Part of their problem is a thyroid problem and many times
04:52 it's undiagnosed.
04:53 Is it reversible?
04:54 Well, it's a good question.
04:56 The answer is one of those classic medical answers
05:00 "It depends. "
05:01 It depends on what?
05:03 It really depends on what the cause of the hypothyroidism is.
05:06 There are a variety of things that cause hypothyroidism.
05:10 The single most common cause of hypothyroidism in children
05:14 over 8 and all the way into adulthood is something called
05:17 Hoshimoto's Thyroiditis.
05:19 Hoshimoto's Thyroiditis is an autoimmune destruction of the
05:28 thyroid gland.
05:30 So the body is attacking this gland, it's being wiped out.
05:34 That is basically an irreversible scenario.
05:37 It doesn't mean that you have zero thyroid function the minute
05:41 it's diagnosed, but once the body is attacking the thyroid
05:45 you're not typically going to regain that function.
05:48 But there are many other causes of hypothyroidism
05:51 caused by a virus, for example.
05:53 Or following a viral illness.
05:55 After pregnancy, classic cause of hypothyroidism,
05:59 postpartum hypothyroidism is what we call it.
06:03 Many times that's fully reversible.
06:06 So, you've terrified some of us.
06:09 Just with the name Hoshimoto's? - laughter -
06:12 No, with hypothyroidism and seeing the dangers.
06:15 How can I tell if my thyroid then is normal?
06:19 If you read books in the health food store,
06:22 they'll tell you all kinds of things.
06:23 Same with the internet.
06:25 I believe the Lord's way of dealing with thyroid control
06:31 in our body is the best way to get an insight into how
06:35 our thyroid is doing.
06:37 Ok, that's good, but how do I tell if it's normal?
06:39 And then I want to talk about that.
06:40 Well, I'm going to answer your question by telling you
06:43 how it works.
06:44 The thyroid is not just an autonomously functioning organ.
06:50 It has control.
06:51 The Lord has made us so there are other parts of our body
06:54 to talk to our thyroid.
06:55 One of those parts of the body is called the pituitary gland
07:01 laying at the base of our brain.
07:02 I'd point to it but it... well right there in the middle...
07:06 you see the intersection. - laughter -
07:07 Right at the base of your brain and then above that
07:10 in the brain itself is the hypothalamus.
07:13 These regions of the body are monitoring thyroid function.
07:16 Now, Don, I know you're a parent.
07:19 Maybe I shouldn't ask you this on international TV but I'm
07:23 going to stick my neck out.
07:24 Do your children always come immediately
07:27 when you call for them?
07:28 Well, judging between mine and yours - yes - laughter -
07:33 No, no, they don't.
07:35 They may not have heard you the first time.
07:36 That's right!
07:38 So what do you do if your kids don't come when you first call?
07:40 I call them again.
07:42 Maybe a little bit louder.
07:43 Maybe, some.
07:45 That's what the pituitary does with your thyroid.
07:47 If the thyroid is not making enough hormone, it's failing
07:52 the pituitary calls out to the thyroid to work harder.
07:56 Have you ever heard your pituitary talking
07:58 to your thyroid?
07:59 If I did we'd have to do another program!
08:02 That's right! - laughter -
08:04 You're right it does not speak audibly.
08:08 The Lord has the pituitary send a chemical message.
08:11 That chemical message is called TSH.
08:14 If the TSH level is normal that means the pituitary is telling
08:19 the thyroid you're doing a good job, keep going,
08:21 keep up the good work.
08:22 But if it's not listening, not obeying, it's not producing the
08:25 thyroid it needs to, the pituitary starts speaking louder
08:29 THYROID WORK HARDER!
08:31 and the TSH level keeps going up.
08:35 Thyroid Stimulating Hormones - TSH
08:39 So what we want to do if we want to see if the thyroid is failing
08:43 we do a blood test.
08:44 We see what the body says is going on with itself.
08:48 If that TSH level is elevated that's going to indicate
08:52 thyroid failure or thyroid sluggishness.
08:55 So if you have any question or any of these signs or symptoms
08:58 that you talked about just a simple blood test can
09:01 tell you where you are?
09:02 It can make a huge difference.
09:03 I got to tell you though, Don, because of this very
09:07 exquisite control, if your pituitary is failing
09:11 and isn't making TSH, that will also cause your thyroid
09:15 to be sluggish.
09:16 The problem is not with the thyroid now, the problem is
09:19 with the pituitary.
09:20 So you can't just draw TSH level necessarily and assume
09:24 everything but that's the best indicator.
09:27 You got to have a doctor to order the test anyway.
09:30 So work with your doctor if you've got a question.
09:33 Get the TSH test and then they can work with you
09:36 on interpreting.
09:37 You have a list probably on your website compasshealth. net
09:40 that goes through all the causes: Hoshimoto's, painful
09:44 sub acute Thyroiditis, painless sporadic Thyroiditis,
09:47 all of these different things where you can look into.
09:50 That's right.
09:51 There's a variety of different causes of hypothyroidism
09:53 and we point out there on the website how reversible they are
09:57 by nature of the cause.
10:01 So you've talked about how we can diagnose TSH and talked
10:05 about how that can also be indicative a problem
10:10 with the pituitary.
10:11 But how high does this TSH need to be before someone gets
10:17 concerned?
10:18 What are the normal's?
10:19 Well, you know that is one of the challenges that we have.
10:22 I could show you study after study, I have some of the
10:25 references on the website, but different people are actually
10:29 looking at different cut offs.
10:31 But let me tell you what works for me.
10:35 The standard units that are reported are what we call
10:38 micro units per liter - MU/L.
10:42 Those are the units that we use here in our country.
10:45 Don, here's what the challenge is.
10:48 If you look at the laboratory normal range it's going to
10:52 usually be up to about 5, maybe 4.5, maybe 5.0,
10:56 maybe 5.5.
10:57 But a lot of thyroid specialists are starting to say,
11:01 "Well, you know what, a lot of people are hypothyroid
11:05 and by just looking at what the average is may be misleading us.
11:10 An optimal TSH level may be more like 2 or below.
11:15 Now you don't want to get too low because then that would
11:17 indicate you are hyperthyroid.
11:20 Your TSH levels get very low because your body -
11:22 your pituitary is afraid to say anything -
11:24 any little word it gives to the thyroid it starts producing
11:27 more hormones.
11:28 Just kind of dramatizing it a little bit there.
11:32 But what the point is lower TSH levels actually maybe
11:38 somewhat better.
11:39 When you get too high a level then you start getting into
11:42 risk of osteoporosis and heart rhythm problems.
11:44 So people shouldn't just willy-nilly be taking thyroid
11:48 hormone just because their wife has it the husband
11:52 shouldn't take some to help him loose weight.
11:53 Ok.
11:55 We're talking about Hypothyroidism.
11:58 But some people can have too high a thyroid as well,
12:02 isn't that true?
12:03 That's right, that's Hyperthyroidism.
12:06 Hyper and Hypo - you're exactly right.
12:09 It's not as big a problem in our country as far as the numbers
12:13 effected but it's still a significant problem
12:15 and it is something to be kept in mind.
12:17 If it's true that the thyroid can be knocked out
12:22 a lot of people take like Synthroid and or these
12:25 different things you're not advocating in this program
12:29 that they go off that.
12:30 There's no way really to go off it once that happens,
12:32 is that right or wrong?
12:33 Is it reversible in other words?
12:35 Many of the causes are.
12:37 Hoshimoto's is the most common cause, is not reversible.
12:41 Those people will need to be on thyroid replacement.
12:46 Are there some exceptions?
12:48 Perhaps early in the course of the condition - yes, but I'll
12:51 tell you in my experience if you have an autoimmune type of
12:55 thyroid problem you're going to need the thyroid hormone
12:59 replacement.
13:00 To me that is not a drug, it's replacing a natural body hormone
13:03 that the Lord designed for you to have but you're not making.
13:07 But, come back to the train of thought we had a moment ago,
13:12 as far as what's the normal range?
13:13 Any doctor, if you get above 10 micro units per liter, they're
13:20 going to tell you that you're hypothyroid.
13:22 5 to 10 range they might say it's a little gray but most
13:26 doctors it seems are leaning if it's above 5 to 10 range
13:29 even if other indicators of thyroid in the blood, if they
13:33 measure the free thyroid in your blood - we can do
13:36 that now - if that's normal they're going to say
13:38 you have subclinical hypothyroidism.
13:41 Maybe you don't have a full-blown disease, maybe the
13:44 blood levels are ok of the thyroid hormone but the brain
13:47 and the pituitary are saying the thyroid is not working right.
13:50 Many of these people, the evidence is suggesting, they're
13:53 benefited by treatment as far as energy level, cholesterol
13:55 level tends to come down because when you're hypothyroid
13:58 cholesterol can rise and help the blood pressure, a number
14:01 of things can be related to hypothyroidism.
14:03 So if it's equal or above 10 your doctor is going to say...?
14:07 Yes, that's very clear cut.
14:10 Above 5 many doctors will treat and the evidence suggests that
14:14 that is probably prudent.
14:16 That's the way things seem to be moving at least from
14:18 my reading of the literature.
14:19 So if it's on the high side of normal and you're gaining
14:22 weight and fatigued you're going to benefit?
14:25 Usually we'll find that people TSH levels 6, 7, they benefit
14:30 by getting their TSH levels down 4, 3, 2, by taking some
14:35 T4 replacement whether it's the Synthroid or Levoxyl
14:40 or some other form of what we call L-thyroxine.
14:43 My wife is expecting our third child right now and you've been
14:47 through a number yourself.
14:49 Let's say someone has just had a baby and they got the
14:53 thyroid problems that come after having a baby.
14:55 What should they do?
14:56 Definitely they want to have it diagnosed first.
14:59 Don't just jump to a conclusion if you're feeling fatigued
15:02 that it's from the thyroid because there's also that
15:04 condition postpartum depression.
15:06 It's very important that if a woman after pregnancy is
15:11 feeling very low energy level that she has things evaluated.
15:14 If she is hypothyroid many times what happens,
15:17 I've seen this before.
15:19 I remember one woman very vividly some years ago
15:22 came into my office.
15:23 She had postpartum hypothyroidism.
15:25 She was started on thyroid and she was never taken off it.
15:29 She saw me probably 20-25 years later.
15:31 We were able to gradually taper her off the thyroid.
15:34 And her thyroid was fine then.
15:36 She didn't need to stay on the thyroid replacement.
15:38 It was a momentary thing.
15:41 It was short-term needing help.
15:43 Now some people with postpartum Thyroiditis they will have
15:46 irreversible, long-term thyroid problems.
15:48 We're talking with Dr. David DeRose.
15:51 He's a physician from southern Oklahoma.
15:53 He has a ministry called compasshealth. net
15:58 We hope that it's given you some direction so far
16:02 with hypothyroidism.
16:03 We hope that you join us when we come back
16:05 to talk a little bit more about this important subject.
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17:10 Welcome back.
17:11 We've been talking with Dr. David DeRose.
17:12 We've been talking about your thyroid
17:14 That little gland right underneath your Adam's apple.
17:18 Of course, Dr. DeRose, my name is Mackintosh so maybe we can
17:22 say, "It's right underneath your Mackintosh!"
17:24 Ok, well, however you want to remember it, that's where it is.
17:27 You have a ministry called CompassHealth.
17:29 Many things we're talking about are on that website
17:32 compasshealth. net.
17:34 This is very useful to us because as we've said thyroid
17:39 problems afflict a large amount of women and to a lesser extent
17:44 men but more after they get over the age of 60.
17:46 We've talked about how it can crop up after a pregnancy
17:50 but what about the patient that has cancer and develops
17:54 thyroid problems?
17:55 The most classic form of cancer that causes thyroid problems is
18:00 thyroid cancer.
18:01 Typically the treatment for thyroid cancer involves
18:06 total destruction of all thyroid tissue -
18:10 first with surgery.
18:13 If surgery cannot remove all the thyroid tissue they'll give
18:18 a radio active iodine following the surgery that will destroy
18:22 any remaining thyroid tissue.
18:24 Thyroid cancer, by the way, is one of the very
18:27 treatable cancers.
18:28 Most types of thyroid cancers are very treatable and do not
18:31 kill many times.
18:33 If you had to choose a cancer thyroid cancer is one
18:37 of the better ones to choose.
18:38 But what I think you're getting at in the question is what
18:42 happens after you've had that thyroid wiped out.
18:45 Is that correct?
18:46 Right.
18:47 Just one thing before, and I know this is maybe not your
18:49 area of specialty, when should you be concerned and how
18:52 could someone know they have thyroid cancer?
18:53 All those same signs and symptoms are kind of going
18:56 haywire or what?
18:57 No, usually the first sign of thyroid cancer is a
19:01 growth in the neck.
19:02 Ok, so it's an enlarging of that gland.
19:05 Yes, it typically starts with just a nodule, or a lump,
19:09 or a bump in the gland.
19:10 Sometimes people will notice it on their own, other times
19:14 they won't.
19:15 I had a woman call me just a few weeks ago.
19:21 She went to one of these free ultrasound screenings.
19:26 As they were screening her carotid arteries, and the
19:29 ultrasound tech who was doing it actually looked at her thyroid
19:33 and saw some nodules there.
19:35 That was fortunate.
19:37 It is fortunate but the unfortunate thing is if you
19:40 screen enough people that way probably 30-50% us have nodules.
19:45 But she had some big nodules that were palpable.
19:47 They could be felt.
19:49 She just hadn't noticed them.
19:50 She ended up apparently having cancer.
19:52 So, yes, a lump in the neck, swollen lymph glands, if the
19:57 cancer is more advanced it's become infiltrated or spread
20:02 you may have changes in your voice,
20:04 and other things like that.
20:06 So all those can be indicators.
20:07 Let's say they've been diagnosed and then the thyroid has been
20:09 radiated or eradicated through surgery or radio active iodine
20:16 what do you want to say about their levels?
20:19 Well basically they're going to have zero
20:20 thyroid production capacity.
20:24 So they're going to have a life or death need to take
20:25 thyroid replacement.
20:26 It's a good question because it's a way of saying what is
20:30 the total thyroid need for anybody?
20:32 No thyroid function, someone with cancer, all their thyroid
20:36 tissue is gone.
20:37 The average adult, middle aged 100-150 micro grams per day.
20:46 That's going to be the replacement range.
20:49 As we get older, up in years, that drops to about half.
20:54 So 50-75 micro grams a day.
20:58 Then in young children and pregnant women the needs
21:03 are often higher, maybe 175-200 micro grams.
21:08 That's something to work with your doctor on.
21:10 Definitely!
21:11 They'll be monitoring the TSH to see what the pituitary is
21:14 saying about the amount of thyroid your taking.
21:16 Let's say I'm taking this thyroid replacement therapy,
21:21 some people say I should avoid certain foods
21:24 like soy or these other things.
21:25 Is there anything to that?
21:26 Well, there's no question that in soy products and in other
21:30 plant products there's some naturally occurring goitrogens.
21:34 Goitrogens - the same thing we call a goiter?
21:38 Yes it comes from the same term.
21:40 These compounds actually do have a mild adverse effect
21:47 on the thyroid.
21:49 But we've got to put that in perspective.
21:51 If you look at the foods that has some of these goitrogens
21:53 these are nutritional powerhouses - the soy foods,
21:56 cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli and cauliflower.
21:59 I can imagine there are some of our viewers saying, "Hey, great
22:03 I've been waiting for my excuse to not eat broccoli, soybeans,
22:08 or tofu.
22:09 But actually, here's the issue.
22:12 If you're on thyroid replacement that is not going to make a
22:18 whit of difference.
22:19 You're still going to have to take a pill.
22:22 The bigger concern when it comes to dietary things are some very
22:25 potent things that can be blocking thyroid function
22:28 and these are man made compounds.
22:30 Such as what?
22:32 Things that you'll find in herbicides and other toxins
22:37 that are in the environment.
22:38 And of course no one goes out and says, "I'm going to get
22:40 myself herbicide and toxins!"
22:41 Those are like occurring in fish.
22:45 The higher you go up in the food chain, and what we mean by that,
22:50 I know you know what we mean by it, but for those who are not
22:53 familiar with our description of this.
22:55 Basically low on the food chain is the sources...
23:00 plants
23:01 yes, the plant.
23:03 But I was going to make it a little more dramatic,
23:05 more colorful, but since you cut right to the chase
23:08 we'll just say the plants - the very simple things
23:11 the Lord created.
23:12 Then what eats those?
23:14 As you go up higher in the food chain you've got
23:15 the vegetarian animals and then higher up on the food chain
23:20 are the carnivorous animals, etcetera.
23:22 The higher you go up on the food chain the more
23:24 toxic and concentrated.
23:26 So the big fish, long living fish, these scavengers,
23:30 these kind of things can have higher toxin levels
23:32 they'll concentrate many of these compounds.
23:34 The one strategy is try to avoid animal products.
23:38 This is a much more important issue from my looking at the
23:41 data then trying to avoid soy or broccoli.
23:43 You're better off eating more soy and broccoli and less
23:46 milk, meat, eggs, and cheese.
23:48 So check where you are on the food chain is the big thing.
23:50 If you have any questions go to compasshealth. net and they have
23:54 a food chain there probably and you can see what's
23:56 important for you.
23:57 Let's say I'm already a vegetarian.
24:00 Is there anything else that I should do or not do?
24:05 Well, one of the things we're very concerned about are the
24:07 things that are finding their way into our water supply.
24:09 And the things that are put into plastics.
24:16 One of the classic cases - plastic is kept flexible even
24:21 if it's somewhat rigid by plasticizers.
24:23 These are compounds that are not part of the plastic itself.
24:27 In a sense they can leach into the food easily.
24:30 So if you are putting plastic material into your microwave
24:35 for example and microwaving plastic is not a good idea
24:39 because you're increasing the amount of these chemicals
24:42 that are getting into the food.
24:43 Styrofoam?
24:45 Styrofoam, I don't know.
24:47 That's a good question.
24:48 It's a plastic so don't put it on your plastic plate
24:51 and heat it up.
24:52 Or your plastic container.
24:55 I don't want to mention any brands.
25:00 I was avoiding trying to do that.
25:02 It's better to just put it on a glass plate.
25:07 Glass is the best - glass or other inert materials
25:10 for storing and for microwaving.
25:13 The other place where we find these toxins
25:15 is in our water supply.
25:17 I encourage people to do something with their water
25:20 whether it's reverse osmosis or distillation plus
25:25 charcoal filtration - don't forget that.
25:27 In other words water supply can have a lot of these chemicals
25:34 which can cause problems with the thyroid.
25:37 The reason I make the point with distillation is because
25:42 many of these compounds are volatile.
25:46 That means if you boil the water, that's what's being done
25:48 in distillation, along with the water vapor is going to come
25:51 some of these toxins.
25:52 So when you pass this water first through a charcoal filter
25:57 that gets out those toxins so then the distillation
26:00 is a more purer product.
26:03 Two things - can exercise help this and what would you say
26:08 as a Christian clinician would be a spiritual approach?
26:11 There are some very interesting things that we've got to keep
26:13 in mind about this.
26:14 When it comes to exercise one of the most interesting
26:18 things in the athletic literature is that over exercise
26:22 suppresses thyroid function.
26:24 I don't think most of our viewers have a problem
26:26 with that.
26:27 Yes, that's why I'm smiling. - laughter -
26:28 But you know what, Don, in some of the research we've done
26:31 even people who are sedentary starting on an exercise program
26:35 we've found some evidence that they may be doing too much
26:39 exercise.
26:40 The bottom line if someone's not active, they want to
26:42 exercise, listen to their body.
26:45 We're not saying if you've been exercising 20 minutes a day
26:47 cut it down to five.
26:48 Still do the 20 minutes but don't...
26:51 Look if you're 60 years old guy and you haven't been exercising
26:55 for years don't go out to the track and see if you can beat
26:58 some 30 year old woman around the track whose out there
27:00 running it's just unwise not only for your heart
27:03 but also for your thyroid.
27:05 Ok, so that's an interesting connection.
27:07 What would you say spiritually as a thought
27:10 as we close the program?
27:11 One of the precious promises in the Bible that I think speaks
27:16 to this is in Psalm 103.
27:18 David there is praising the Lord.
27:20 "Bless the Lord oh my soul, and all that is within me,
27:23 bless His holy name.
27:24 Bless the Lord oh my soul, and forget not all His benefits. "
27:27 He speaks of some of the great things that the Lord does
27:30 and one of them is healing disease.
27:33 The Lord may not always heal disease in this life but we can
27:36 trust Him to help us to get on a program of health and
27:39 ultimately have true healing in eternity.
27:42 Thanks so much for joining us and helping us with a rather
27:45 complicated subject today, Doctor.
27:48 Thank you for joining us.
27:49 You can get some of this information on
27:50 campasshealth. net.
27:52 We're glad you joined us for Health for a Lifetime
27:54 and we hope your thyroid is healthy as a result.


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Revised 2014-12-17