Participants: Don Mackintosh (Host), John Clark
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000196
00:01 The following program presents principles
00:03 designed to promote good health and is not intended to
00:06 take the place of personalized professional care.
00:08 The opinions and ideas expressed are
00:11 those of the speaker. Viewers are encouraged to draw
00:14 their own conclusions about the information presented.
00:50 Welcome to Health For A Lifetime.
00:51 I'm your host Don Mackintosh. We are glad
00:53 you are with us today, we are gonna be talking
00:54 today about Arthritis. Dr. John Clark
00:58 an orthopedic surgeon from Maine is with us to talk
01:01 about this. You've been practicing about five years
01:03 in orthopedics, do you see a lot of people
01:05 with Arthritis. Oh I do, a lot of people come to me
01:08 with that very diagnosis, and so they come,
01:12 they are hunched over there, like you know my uncle
01:15 was saying once and its not really funny,
01:16 but it's gonna graphic he says who is that person
01:19 sneaking in air, you know, they are kind a hunched
01:21 over they are and almost does look like
01:24 they are sneaking in if you will, but its really
01:26 because of the Arthritis. That's right it's quite
01:29 crippling and causes deformity, people will get
01:33 bowlegged or not need as they get older and the CDC
01:38 has designated Arthritis as one of the leading
01:41 causes of disability in America.
01:44 So, centers for disease control CDC, that's right,
01:47 says this is a leading cause for disability and that,
01:50 what else the statistics about it, you know,
01:54 give me the numbers. About 20 percent of Americans
01:57 have been diagnosed with arthritis,
02:00 but there is another 10% of Americans that have it,
02:04 but have never been to doctor to get that
02:06 particular diagnosis. Is this, you know,
02:10 this is watched around the world, is this is just
02:11 an American phenomena or is Arthritis something
02:15 it affects other cultures as well?
02:17 Arthritis has become so prevalent that they have
02:20 designated the decade from 2000 to 2010 as the bone
02:24 and joint decade to raise awareness about arthritis
02:28 around the world, because it is such a world wide
02:31 problem. Now, I can't help but think that
02:34 you are probably gonna share with us,
02:36 that there is some way to prevent arthritis
02:38 from developing to begin with.
02:41 That's right if we couldn't prevent it I guess
02:43 that wouldn't be a whole lot of reason to talk
02:45 about it. What there, yeah we just say hey we give up,
02:48 right. Well, there is a couple of things
02:51 about joints that are important to think about
02:54 when you think about preventing arthritis.
02:57 Okay, number one is circulation
02:59 and number two is illumination.
03:02 The circulation is getting the blood to the joint
03:06 and the blood away from the joint
03:08 and illumination has to deal with removing
03:10 the metabolic products from the joint
03:13 as they build up so they don't stack up
03:16 and cause trouble. So, circulation, circulation,
03:19 circulation, oh that's right, that's exactly right.
03:22 Anything else. Well as you think about circulation
03:26 there are several factors that effects circulation
03:29 and number one is how much water you drink,
03:33 if your blood gets too thick
03:35 you won't be able to circulate it
03:37 and so water is very important.
03:39 Now the water not only is circulation in the blood,
03:42 but water has to circulate to the joint,
03:46 apart from the blood it has to soak-in and soak-out
03:50 that's because cartilage has no blood supply.
03:54 May we can put up our first graphic here,
03:57 where we talk about that the blood supply
04:00 to the joint is dependent upon
04:03 blood flowing by the joint. Is this a knee?
04:06 This is the knee, the green part of the graphic
04:09 are the bones, the pink along the side
04:13 there is a vessel that I have drawn very large
04:16 and at the top you see a blood cell.
04:18 You see the blood cells come flowing by the joint,
04:21 nutrient has to soak across the blood vessel,
04:25 across the joint capsule, across into the joint space
04:30 some people talk about having water on the knee,
04:33 well everybody has a little bit water on the knee,
04:35 the water on the knee then has to soak
04:37 into the cartilage and that is one of the few ways
04:40 that cartilage can get nourished
04:43 and then the waste products have to soak back out,
04:46 we call it diffusion out of the cartilage back across
04:51 the joint capsule and then back into the bloodstream,
04:56 where they are taken out through the kidneys.
04:58 I always thought that a vessel was
05:00 kind of a little bit more firm than
05:03 that and I don't think things leaking through
05:04 and leaking backend, but that actually happens.
05:07 That is the way you get nutrition to all
05:09 your tissues is that the blood cells flows down
05:13 the blood vessel and its squeezes off nutrients
05:17 as it goes through a capillary,
05:19 those nutrients cross across
05:21 the blood vessel wall and then into the tissues.
05:25 So, for arthritic people they are not having
05:28 this type of soaking, they are not getting what
05:32 they need in and they are not getting it out,
05:34 that's right, okay. Nutrition is not getting in
05:37 and waste products are piling up inside the joint.
05:40 Okay, so we need water and then what else we need.
05:43 The next thing we need is exercise,
05:46 believe it or not exercise is important for the joints,
05:50 if you don't use them you tend to loose them
05:53 and then nutrition is very important.
05:56 Okay, so water, exercise, nutrition,
05:59 and the solution to this pollution is dilution,
06:02 you are saying, well there you go,
06:03 that's a good way of putting it.
06:04 Okay back to water anything else you want to tell us
06:07 about why water is important.
06:09 Yes, the cartilage is kind of a spongy material.
06:13 Its actually made up of 65 to 80 percent water,
06:18 that water not only carries nutrients into it
06:21 and nutrients or waste products out of it,
06:24 but that water acts kind a like a shock absorber,
06:27 it also makes that cartilage very slick,
06:30 its kind a like the linoleum in your house.
06:32 If you get it wet it gets slick,
06:34 we like the cartilage to be wet and slick.
06:37 So my ears, is that cartilage right?
06:40 That is cartilage, but that is not the quite the same
06:43 as what's in your joint, it's similar.
06:45 The cartilage in your joint has an open space
06:50 with synovial fluid flowing against it.
06:53 The cartilage in your ear is very similar in make up,
06:56 but it has skin around it. Okay, exercise.
07:01 Our joints you know usually you would think
07:03 well my joints are hurting me in different things
07:06 maybe I just need to stay off for a while,
07:08 but you are saying we keep moving anyway.
07:11 Yes, if you don't use your joints you tend to loose
07:14 them and why is that? The cartilage since it has
07:18 no blood supply depends on cyclic loading to pump it,
07:22 it helps pump nutrients in and waste products out
07:27 if you don't pump it, it will accumulate waste products
07:30 becomes acidotic and the acid like the gas
07:33 and other acids tend to make the cartilage cells
07:36 very unhappy and maybe even die.
07:39 It helps degenerate the cartilage matrix,
07:41 it makes the sponge degenerate pretty soon,
07:44 you start loosing joint space if you walk you
07:48 pump the joint, if you walk you keep more
07:51 oxygen coming in your system
07:53 to get to the cartilage and then cartilage is much,
07:56 much happier. Okay,
07:57 so walking can get kind a squeezed off
07:59 in squeezed off out like that, that's right.
08:02 You know, we have talked about exercise, nutrition,
08:06 and all these different things that maybe
08:08 could prevent, but I have heard that
08:11 arthritis is sometimes autoimmune,
08:13 there is an immune element to that is that true?
08:16 That's exactly right, there is autoimmune arthritis.
08:20 And you are not talking about those in this
08:22 or are you? We are talking mostly
08:26 about osteoarthritis, but some of the principles
08:29 that we cover in nutrition will also affect
08:32 the arthritis called autoimmune
08:34 or rheumatoid arthritis.
08:36 Okay, so even if you have rheumatoid arthritis
08:38 you should be out there walking
08:40 and doing all those things, don't just give up.
08:42 That's right. Okay, I have heard you know
08:45 what HFAL saying you are what you eat,
08:47 you have talked here about water,
08:49 you have talked about exercise,
08:50 but what about nutrition in arthritis.
08:54 Nutrition is very important for your joints,
08:57 I would like to talk about foods in five different
09:00 categories as the way they affect your joints.
09:02 Okay, I would like to talk about foods
09:04 that are refined. Okay, refined foods,
09:07 what will they do? Refined foods, an refined foods
09:12 would be like sugars, oils, alcohols
09:14 these kind of things, things you don't necessary
09:17 find out nature that they have been processed.
09:19 The effect of refined foods is that they make all
09:24 the blood cells stick together
09:26 and when they all stick together they don't
09:28 drop off nutrients to the tissues like they should,
09:32 what happens is in normal situation
09:35 you have a capillary that is about
09:37 half a diameter of a blood cell.
09:41 When the blood cell reaches that capillary
09:43 it actually folds over and then
09:45 it goes down the capillary and it squeezes off
09:49 its nutrients to the surrounding tissue. Well,
09:52 if you eat refined foods it tends to stick all those
09:56 blood cells together kind a like the Michelin Man,
09:59 you know this guy with all the tire stuck together,
10:01 okay, that's what your blood cells do and
10:03 when they all stick together they come to the capillary
10:06 and they can't make it through and so they
10:09 don't drop off nutrients, they don't pick up
10:11 waste products, and the joint is starved
10:14 for nutrition and it's basically based in waste
10:18 products. So, you know these big sediment rolls
10:22 and all that, that's probably gonna not help
10:24 your joints. I told my staff one time all about
10:28 this gave them my lecture on this topic and whenever
10:31 we went out to eat after that they go ahead
10:33 and order something they knew that wasn't good,
10:35 they start to eat and they say oh,
10:37 my knee is starting to hurt. Okay, so refined foods
10:44 you said that's one group, is there another
10:46 type of foods in terms of nutrition
10:48 you want to bring to our attention.
10:49 Yes, you talked about the autoimmune arthritis,
10:53 we call them the inflammatory arthritis,
10:55 but there are also foods that are specifically
10:58 inflammatory for people.
11:01 I had a patient come to my office not long ago
11:04 and they were a high school track star,
11:07 they were a runner, they like to go out
11:09 and run six miles a day, that's a lot.
11:12 I want to do that if I am really afraid of somebody.
11:15 Oh, yes. Well, when we run and then they start
11:19 developing this pain in the ball of their foot.
11:22 It was hurting, it was swelling,
11:24 and they came to see me.
11:25 Well, I set up them up on our program to take care
11:29 of that, but then the mom who was along
11:31 with the young person asked me what,
11:33 how did they get this, what the,
11:36 what causes this? I said well we don't always know,
11:39 but sometimes people have in their diet things
11:42 that are inflammatory. She says well like what?
11:45 I said well there are things that we know are
11:47 inflammatory to everybody and some things are specific
11:51 for certain people. But in this case I told her
11:53 that there is, the most animal products
11:56 especially dairy especially foods that have had
12:00 a rotting process used to create them,
12:05 and she said what's that she asked? Cheese.
12:08 Yes, this would be like cheeses, wines, alcohols,
12:14 and vinegars; she says vinegar?
12:17 I said yeah vinegar, and she says wow well
12:19 he drinks about a half a cup of vinegar a day.
12:23 I said, what really? I didn't know why that was,
12:28 but I asked him well you think
12:29 you could try something else to drink for the next
12:32 couple weeks while we see if we can get you over
12:34 this inflammatory problem and he said yes,
12:37 so he came back in a couple of weeks,
12:39 he done all the things that I told him,
12:40 some hydrotherapy and so forth, drink in lots of water,
12:43 but he had stopped the use of large amounts of vinegar
12:48 and the inflammation had gone away
12:50 he went back to his track. So, the list of these foods
12:56 that are inflammatory, you've mentioned vinegar,
12:58 you've mentioned cheeses or you know
13:01 animal product foods, anything else along
13:03 those inflammatory lines.
13:05 Yes, any food that has been created by rotting,
13:09 but also foods that have had molds growing on them
13:13 when the mold grows on the food it produces aflatoxins.
13:18 Aflatoxins are especially toxic to the system,
13:21 the body reacts to them.
13:23 The way the body reacts all these inflammatory foods
13:27 is that these capillaries that we talked about that
13:30 have to have nutrients move across the capillary wall
13:33 and waste products back those capillaries
13:36 become inflamed and they become thickened,
13:38 the wall of that capillary may actually thickened
13:42 four or more times as usual thickness
13:46 then with a thick capillary wall
13:48 you can't get nutrients across the capillary wall
13:51 is too thick and you can't get waste products
13:54 back out of the tissues back into the bloodstream
13:57 across that thickened capillary wall.
14:00 So, we talked about refined foods,
14:01 we talked about inflammatory foods,
14:03 you have down here also vasoactive foods.
14:07 Vasoactive foods will definitely affect
14:09 your joints. You see vasoactive foods are foods
14:12 that change the way your blood is flowing through
14:16 your system, they regulate the vessels in ways
14:20 that they won't necessarily supposed to be regulated,
14:23 what happens is when you take a vasoactive food
14:27 it tends to clamp down the vessels in the arms
14:31 and legs in order to push blood to the heart
14:34 and brain to make you think you are awake
14:36 like caffeine, like nicotine, like theobromine
14:40 like a different vasoactive amines contained in cheeses
14:44 and wines. We are talking with John Clark,
14:48 we are talking about the foods that can really cause
14:51 or lead to arthritis and we are talking about,
14:55 you know, if you can avoid those or other things
14:57 you can improve maybe reverse better yet prevent
15:01 arthritis and we are gonna talk more
15:03 about this when we comeback.
15:04 maybe reverse better yet prevent arthritis
15:05 and we are gonna talk more about this
15:06 when we comeback.
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16:06 Welcome back we have been talking with
16:07 Dr. John Clark, he is an orthopedic surgeon
16:10 and he has a concern about people's bones
16:13 and their joints and we have been talking about
16:15 arthritis and how it is disabling crippling disease
16:19 for millions of Americans, you said that the CDC said,
16:22 it's the number one cause of disability not
16:24 only here, but around the world and you've
16:27 also said that there is reasons for that.
16:29 Summarize some of those reasons and then we
16:32 were working through a list of foods that are
16:34 kind of toxic foods. We want to get back to that,
16:37 but summarize a little bit where we have been,
16:39 you know so people can catch up with us.
16:41 Arthritis is a big problem for people because most
16:45 of things we do, we depend on our arms
16:47 and legs to get around and of course our arms
16:49 and legs have all these joints in them.
16:53 The workplace example, people who get
16:55 arthritis in the knees or hips are basically
16:59 going to be out of work and if this happens
17:00 in their elderly years when they are already
17:03 when they are already headed toward retirement,
17:04 the company is just gonna say well why
17:05 don't you retire early or just you know
17:08 they lay him off, so keeping your bones
17:10 and joints in good shape to the end of your
17:13 life is very important. So, you talked about water,
17:17 exercise, nutrition, talked about circulation
17:20 and illumination and then having this pumping effect
17:23 of the cartilage because we keep moving
17:26 and squeezing things in and squeezing things
17:29 out that's how our cartilage works
17:30 and then we were going through this list of
17:33 foods we said refined foods, inflammatory foods,
17:36 vasoactive foods and slow, well we didn't get
17:40 to this next one. You want to talk about slow
17:42 transit foods. I can kind a get figure that out,
17:45 you know it sounds like peanut butter
17:47 or something, but what exactly is a slow transit
17:49 food. That's right, Don, we wanna talk about
17:52 slow transit foods because they do effect
17:55 the joints by slow transit we mean it takes a
17:58 longtime to get from the mouth out of the system.
18:02 These foods are foods that are usually high in fat
18:06 and low in fiber. The effect is that as the food
18:11 is a longtime in the system, the bacteria have
18:15 heyday they say oh poor guys look what's coming
18:18 and they get longtime to work on it.
18:20 Now bacteria multiply at a fast rate,
18:23 they double every so many minutes
18:25 and if you give them a lot more minutes
18:28 they will overpopulate, they will overgrow.
18:31 Bacteria have a bad habit, they don't clean
18:34 up after themselves and as those bacteria sit
18:37 there they put off toxins, those toxins are
18:41 reabsorbed into the system and they do all
18:43 the things we have talked about so far just like
18:46 the refined foods, the inflammatory foods,
18:49 and all the foods that cause trouble for
18:52 the joints. They create real low or hypercoagulation,
18:56 they create inflammation and they act in the
18:59 same vasoactive ways of the vasoactive foods
19:02 with those toxic mediators, once more since
19:05 the food sits around so long the body,
19:07 you know, what isn't sent out right away tends
19:10 to sit their and reabsorbs some of these things
19:12 you are trying to get rid off and so the body
19:15 has all this accumulation of waste products
19:19 and bacterial toxins. So, slow transit foods
19:22 would be like things that are high in fat,
19:24 they don't move through quickly, that's right,
19:26 any, what are some other slow transit foods?
19:28 Slow transit foods anything that's usually high
19:31 in fat and low in fiber. You look at fast foods;
19:36 usually there are no fiber and lots of fat,
19:39 so like French Fries 70% fat, they just hang out
19:42 for a longtime. That's exactly right,
19:44 other foods that hang out for longtime
19:47 are animal products, usually high in fat and
19:50 no fiber. Animal products are the favorite food
19:54 of bacteria too and so they have a heyday on this.
19:58 Other foods anything that's usually deep fat fried,
20:03 foods that have been refined and that goes
20:05 back to our refined food list.
20:07 People in America usually have about a
20:11 72 hour transit time, where as people on
20:14 a high fiber diet from some of the other
20:17 countries, where refining hasn't become the habit,
20:20 have a less than 30 hour transit time
20:24 and they have less osteoporosis in those
20:25 countries, and less low back pain too and
20:29 less arthritis. That's a very stimulating thought
20:32 to think, you know usually we think,
20:33 well the foods out there on the table better
20:35 covered up, so the flies don't get on it.
20:38 But we don't often think about hey you eat
20:40 certain kinds of food and they go through slow,
20:41 you got all these little bacteria, little flies in
20:44 the body they get out as well. That's right.
20:46 Well that's fascinating. Now, plaque forming
20:49 foods. We usually talk about plaque forming
20:51 foods is being related to, you know,
20:53 the heart and all those different things,
20:55 but how are they related to arthritis.
20:58 You know, the other day I put up an x-ray,
21:01 I was looking at it, and there was actually more
21:04 calcium in the blood vessels in that x-ray of
21:08 a leg then there was in the bones
21:11 because of all the plaque that it formed in
21:14 those blood vessels and I have seen lot
21:16 of patients who came in because they are
21:18 diabetic or they were otherwise they have
21:21 been smoking or something and had developed
21:24 this plaque and they were loosing their limbs
21:26 they had to have amputations,
21:27 while this process also effects the joints.
21:31 You see if the joint can't get blood by it
21:35 then it can't get nutrition and it can't get rid
21:39 of its waste products. So, plaque affects
21:41 joints the same it affects your heart,
21:43 same way it affects strokes in brains,
21:46 it affects the whole body. Refined foods,
21:51 inflammatory foods, vasoactive foods,
21:53 slow transit foods, and plaque forming foods.
21:57 Plaque forming foods, and those foods are
21:58 foods that are usually high in fat,
22:01 high in cholesterol, high in trans fats,
22:05 any food especially that has had oils that
22:09 have been super heated; these foods are
22:12 specially plaque forming. The worst of course are
22:15 foods where cholesterol has been mixed with air
22:20 such as ice cream or even pancake mixes,
22:23 where eggs have been dried and put in the mix,
22:25 so all you have to do is add water.
22:29 You know these foods that you have gone
22:31 through, I mean these are foods that people
22:34 out there you know there is huge restaurant
22:36 chains built around the best pancakes.
22:39 That's right, built around the best this or that,
22:42 I mean each one of these, I could probably put
22:45 a restaurant or food chain, you know next
22:48 to it, there are junk food firms that you know,
22:51 that we could mention, but we won't.
22:54 I mean but they are built around these things,
22:57 so how are you, you know, how you gonna
23:00 impact a culture, I mean the culture is
23:02 being impacted, you are saying they are
23:04 getting arthritis and their bones are falling apart,
23:07 but how could we turn that around?
23:09 Well, we got to get everybody back to the
23:12 garden, that's where the food is the best
23:15 the closer you can eat to the garden the
23:17 better off you will be. If we think about each
23:20 of these areas that I have talked about the
23:22 refined foods and inflammatory foods,
23:25 slow transit foods, vasoactive foods,
23:28 and plaque forming foods, if you eat food
23:31 from the garden you will combat all
23:34 those problems. Refined, if you eat nice
23:37 leafy grains and eat your beans and you know
23:40 your rice and your grains and you eat everything
23:43 close to the garden you get your fiber with
23:46 the food and you end up with more nutrients.
23:49 You know, people that eat lots of meat
23:51 have to be very careful that they get all
23:53 their nutrients and vitamins, those are very
23:57 important for the joints as well.
23:58 Now, when you think about this like the oils;
24:02 people who are on refined oils tend to eat
24:05 a lot more oils that are Omega-6s
24:07 or saturated oils. People on a vegetarian diet
24:12 tend to have a balance between their
24:14 Omega-3s and their Omega-6s. Omega-3 oils
24:18 have been shown to help the blood flow easier,
24:22 to be anti-inflammatory for the joints,
24:26 and also to be good for a lot of problems
24:29 that are caused by oils that are too saturated,
24:33 it's a better alternative. So, we are moving
24:36 from foods that we have to avoid the things
24:37 that they can help us. Yeah, when you talked about
24:40 all those restaurant chains we might be,
24:43 you know, in trouble with, I thought we better
24:45 move to good foods. So, you said there are all
24:48 actually top things you can do that are
24:50 actually good, that can turn things around,
24:52 one thing you have listed here is the
24:54 nutrition what's you are talking about now,
24:56 yes, what about water and all these other
24:59 things you have listed? Because the joint is made
25:03 up of 65 to 80% water, if you dehydrate
25:08 the joint is going to start squeezing down,
25:12 the cartilage is going to get flatter,
25:14 but if you start drinking lot more water it
25:17 helps the joint because it washes out
25:19 the inflammation, it washes out the waste
25:23 products and it helps the joint to recover
25:26 its ability to take on nutrition, the more water
25:30 you can drink up to a point the better off
25:32 you are for your joints. We always tell people
25:34 drink eight to ten glasses of water a day,
25:37 we always talk about other parts of the body
25:40 that they helped, but it's especially important
25:42 for the cartilage. Exercise? Exercise you know
25:46 the best exercise people can do is to go
25:49 walking outside in the open air,
25:52 you get this negatively ionized air,
25:55 fresh air and its actually better than running,
26:00 if you walk the level of oxygen in your system
26:03 is much higher and that oxygen also helps with
26:07 the blood flow, the walking helps with the
26:09 blood flow, the walking helps pump the cartilage
26:12 and you are out, where you can let your stress
26:14 go, you can think about wonderful things
26:17 like God made all these trees and you know
26:20 the sky is blue represents his love for us,
26:22 there are lot of things you can think about,
26:24 as you go outside and walk that actually help
26:28 you in ways you may not be able to put a
26:29 mechanism to. Arthritis most debilitating
26:34 thing it can be what you are saying is avoided
26:38 and perhaps in someway is reversed.
26:40 That's exactly right, I had a babysitter for
26:45 my kid when I was in a school, who was in her
26:50 70s and she had bone on bone arthritis,
26:53 that means you will never recover the
26:55 cartilage, but as long as she was on a good diet
26:58 and she made sure she avoided certain foods
27:02 that were particular to her, she get walk up
27:04 and down the mountain behind her house
27:06 with no pain. If she ate a junk food diet,
27:09 she would be crippled up in no time at all.
27:11 She had figured out what would work for her
27:14 and had put herself on a good diet.
27:17 We have been with Dr. John Clark,
27:19 we have been talking about arthritis.
27:21 We are thankful that you are with us today,
27:23 thank you for taking time from that busy practice
27:26 and your wife and your family and we are also
27:28 thankful that you have been with us today,
27:30 we hope that you have discovered some things
27:31 that can help you know how to help people
27:33 that have arthritis, help you not get arthritis
27:36 yourself if you don't have it or if you do have it
27:38 figure out how to find those toxic foods maybe
27:42 you are drinking a cup of vinegar a day like a one
27:45 example and whatever it is and to reverse that
27:47 replace it with positive foods. We are glad you
27:50 have joined us; we hope that as a result of
27:52 today's program you and your joints will
27:55 have health that lasts for a lifetime.