Participants:
Series Code: HHJ
Program Code: HHJ000019S
|
00:01 ♪ ♪
00:15 Well hello everybody. I'm Stephen Bohr, president of 00:19 Secrets Unsealed and I'm here this afternoon with two 00:24 distinguished individuals. One of them is the associate speaker 00:29 for Secrets Unsealed. The other person is a guest but soon not 00:34 to be a guest. I have with me C.A. Murray who is associate 00:38 speaker for Secrets Unsealed. We're very pleased to have you 00:42 here for this interview C.A. because you are an experienced 00:46 person at this. We also have with us James Rafferty who has 00:53 has been actually working at Light Bearers Ministry for eons. 00:58 Thirty-five years. 00:59 Thirty-five years and up till this point he has been kind of 01:06 in limbo for a little while but he is now part of Secrets 01:11 Unsealed. Amen. He's going to be another associate speaker for 01:14 Secrets Unsealed, praise God, and we want to find out a little 01:18 bit today about the life of James before he knew 01:22 the Lord, after he knew 01:23 the Lord and what some of the plans are. And so we want 01:27 to have a word of prayer and then we'll get right into our 01:31 interview. I'd like to ask C.A. if you would have a word of 01:34 prayer please. 01:35 Certainly. Father God we thank you so very much for this 01:40 ministry, for what you are doing to it and through it. And we are 01:44 thankful Father to add another piece to the puzzle, another 01:48 individual to help lift the load and lift up the mighty and 01:51 matchless name of Jesus. Amen. How thankful we are for 01:54 the call that has 01:56 come to each of us to join hands with you in the greatest work 02:00 ever given the feeble and frail hand of men and women and that 02:04 is sharing the gospel, warning men and women that Christ is 02:08 coming soon. So bless us now as we talk a little bit, learn a 02:11 little bit more about our friend and fellow preacher, fellow 02:14 laborer in the cause of Christ. Be the center and circumference 02:18 of all that we do and say on this program and we thank you 02:22 in Jesus' name, Amen. 02:24 James, just to start off, we've almost watched you grow up on 02:31 television for 35 years, after Light Bearers and I remember 02:36 years ago watching 02:38 you and Ty work together. You were all so much 02:42 younger then. So we've sort of seen you grow up. We know 02:46 your theology, we know that you're a student of the word. 02:49 But we don't know much about you personally. So let's go back and 02:52 pick it up from the very beginning. I know you're a 02:55 military kid but give us some sense of growing up. 03:00 Christian home? 03:01 Brothers and sisters? Talk to us a little about that. 03:04 Yeah, well I was born in the states but raised in England. My 03:07 mom is from Ireland and my mom and dad were both in the 03:12 military. They were both in the Marines when I was born. Camp 03:14 Pendleton. My sister and I are twins. And that was in '62, '60s 03:22 And my father was black, my mom was white and so my mom didn't 03:25 think that this was a good place to raise us in those days. So 03:29 she took us back to England where she had a home and where 03:34 her family was, my grandma, her mom especially. We were raised 03:38 there for 10 years. And we were raised Catholic, Roman Catholic 03:41 my mom would say. Irish. She was born and raised in Ireland and 03:45 Irish on my mom's side so all our family was Roman Catholic 03:49 on my mother's side. We lived in England for 10 years. So when we 03:53 were 11 we moved back to the states. I was raised in Catholic 03:58 schools, I was an altar boy, I said my prayers every night, an 04:02 our father, a hail Mary, God bless the world. So it was a 04:07 home that believed in God but I didn't know Jesus as my personal 04:11 Savior. I didn't know the Bible at all. So we moved back to the 04:14 states and things were tough you know. My mom and dad tried to 04:18 get back together. That didn't work, that lasted about six 04:21 months. He was in Hawaii at the time. He came state side and 04:24 lived in Idaho, then Montana and then in Washington. And that's 04:29 when my mom ended up going back to England and I was here in the 04:33 states by myself. It was my senior year in high school. So I 04:35 16 when she left, 17 in that last year and I just ended up 04:41 getting into partying. And I had already had that in my life. 04:46 There was a lot of alcohol. My mom was an alcoholic. I was onto 04:50 alcohol when I was a kid. She went to AA. My dad was an 04:54 alcoholic, my grandma was an alcoholic, my aunt was an 04:57 alcoholic. So there was a lot of alcohol. To me it wasn't, it was 05:01 a natural thing and I just drank And then the more I was on my 05:05 own and dealing with life and had no parents and had no 05:09 direction the more I got into drinking. And I found myself at 05:14 age 19, 20 having blackouts and just not an alcoholic but 05:19 just on that road. But I remember thinking to myself and 05:23 even you know having times where my friends where we would bet. 05:26 You know, let's stop drinking and see who can last. Fifty 05:29 dollars you know whatever. And we would last you know a few 05:32 weeks to maybe a couple months and then it was you know, it was 05:34 back into partying. So I had no control and I realized that and 05:37 I didn't want to be the way I saw other people's lives that 05:42 were consumed with alcohol but were older than me. I just didn't 05:46 want that. But I had no way of getting out of it and I didn't 05:49 find any strength in religion. I didn't find strength anywhere. 05:53 So one night I... 05:55 Let me just stop you for a second because I want to mind 05:57 this for just a moment because my thinking is even with this 06:00 military background because when you think of military you think 06:03 of regimented, you think of control. 06:05 Is there much use of alcohol in the military? 06:09 Is that something you inherited from your parents or 06:10 that you saw in the home and around the home? 06:13 Not really. I mean my dad drank a lot but I didn't live with my 06:16 dad. I never knew my dad until I was 11. So he had three tours in 06:21 Viet Nam and one in Korea and so there was a lot of alcohol. 06:24 He even made a sweat suit out of Crown Royal bags. And my mom 06:31 in England alcohol was natural. You just went to the pub, 06:34 families went to the pub, you sipped a little wine, you sipped 06:37 a little of this, so you know being Catholic, going to 06:41 communion it's just part of... So I wasn't afraid of alcohol 06:44 it wasn't something you were told Oh don't do that. It was 06:47 something that you just did. And if you couldn't control it then 06:50 it got... and that's where I was. I was at the place where I 06:53 could control it but it was slowly taking over 06:56 and I felt that. 06:57 And so I was at work when this guy that I worked with started 07:04 witnessing to me about Jesus. 07:05 And you know as a believer in God you'd think 07:08 that's not a big deal but to talk about Jesus in public was a 07:11 big deal. Like you don't do that like that's weird. Like okay 07:15 okay I don't know what happened to you. And he told me how to 07:18 accept Christ as my Savior. He used to party with me. He was 07:21 completely turned around. Different. He wasn't partying 07:24 anymore, he was just a different guy and that kind of 07:28 spoke to me. And then my sister who'd come back from 07:31 England and she was there with my mom, she moved in with me for 07:34 a while and she couldn't handle my life style and she moved out. 07:37 She was studying and getting into religion too. 07:38 My mom was even 07:40 worried about her. So both of those influences were kind of 07:44 there. I think people were praying for me. In fact, I know 07:45 they were because on a Friday night I was sitting at my house 07:50 with my party roommates and there was Coke on the table 07:54 and there was drugs and there was real loud music and I was 07:57 looking out the window thinking there's got to be more to life 08:00 than this. And Saturday night I got on my knees and I just 08:04 prayed the prayer that Dan told me to pray even though I wasn't 08:08 listening to him. 08:09 And he was witnessing to me. And I just asked Jesus to come 08:12 into my life and I said that there was no way that I could 08:15 quit drinking and if you wanted me to be a Christian that he 08:18 would have to do that. He would have to give me the power to 08:22 quit drinking because I couldn't do it. 08:23 So at this point you were prepared for that change, I mean 08:26 you had sunken so low that you were really ready. 08:28 I'd sunk real low but I had no idea what was going to happen 08:32 and I wasn't even expecting... I had expectation but the 08:36 decision to accept Christ in my life was like what clothes 08:41 should I wear today. I know it's going to make a difference to 08:44 have these clothes on because they're nice or not, you 08:46 know what I mean? 08:47 But it wasn't like, I didn't think it was going to be like 08:49 life transforming. I just thought I'll give it a shot. 08:52 Maybe something will happen, you know, I don't know. But I was 08:55 sincere and I was really searching for help and help came 09:00 I didn't feel any kind of lightning bolt or any kind of 09:03 emotional thing. I just had a sense of expectation. And I got 09:09 off my knees and I just said I wonder what's going to happen 09:11 in my life now that I've done this. And I went to work Sunday 09:15 night, I worked the grave yard and I took a patient to 09:20 radiology for x-rays. That's what I was an orderly, what we called 09:23 nursing techs. I was in Spokane working at Deaconess Hospital 09:27 and I took a patient to the radiology department. There was 09:31 a young lady there and we just started talking and it was Linda 09:34 And we're talking, chatting along and just getting along you 09:37 know and right in the middle of our conversation she says Ah 09:42 Jim, she says, I want you to know something. I said what's 09:45 that? She said, I'm a Christian. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I 09:49 don't go to bars. And I thought in my mind I thought what, why 09:52 is she telling me this? I didn't know this but her and Dan were 09:55 good friends and Dan had told her about me. He used to party 09:58 at my house. So he had told her about me. He said, I'm thinking 10:00 it was something like, you need to pray for Jim. He's really in 10:03 a bad way. He needs prayers. I've been witnessing to him. We 10:07 need to pray for him. I think he's open. Now who knows what 10:09 they were saying. 10:10 It's amazing how the Lord puts you in contact with people right 10:12 at the right time, isn't it? 10:14 I'd never met her before in the whole hospital I'd never 10:16 met her before. That was amazing. Yeah, That was amazing. 10:19 And so I paused for a second and then I said to her, so am I. She 10:24 said I'm a Christian and I said so am I. She looked at me like 10:29 No you're not. Dan told me about you. Don't give me that line. 10:33 And then I told her my testimony I said last night I accepted 10:38 Jesus as my Savior and I've just been praying about what to do 10:40 I don't know what to do but I just accepted him. And she got 10:43 wide eyes and she said, You need to come to my church. And so 10:46 her and Dan just took a hold of me. Dan would take me to his 10:48 church, Calvary Chapel, and then she took me to her church but 10:52 it was a Pentecostal church. So she didn't want me to kind of 10:54 go in there with all that stuff going on so she took me to the 10:57 youth group. And I hung out with the youth group on Wednesdays 11:00 and Sunday afternoons and I hung out at Calvary Chapel on Sunday 11:04 mornings with Dan and my roommates didn't see me for six 11:08 weeks. My whole life just turned upside down. 11:10 Now let me ask you this then because you're talking about a 11:13 fully dramatic change in a number of hours from the time 11:17 you get on your knees and are talking to the Lord and now the 11:20 Lord brings somebody into your life. Were you able to discern 11:24 a pattern. Were you kind of wide eyed about this. Did you see 11:26 what God was doing? 11:28 I was like wow. This is amazing. I was just so happy right now 11:31 I was in a little bit of awe. I was like really? Six weeks later 11:37 really, I mean I was thinking this is God. This is how God 11:41 answered my prayer. He got me. I didn't even want to drink 11:44 anymore. It was a different sense of not wanting to drink. 11:47 Oh so you didn't have to struggle to give up drinking? 11:49 No he took it away. And my roommates realized. They were 11:52 like what is going on with you. You're different. We haven't 11:55 seen you in six weeks. What have you been doing? You're not 11:56 partying with us. Here have some beer. I was like no thanks. 11:59 What's wrong, what's going on? And so it was a whole 12:02 different... and I just didn't like it. I just didn't want it. 12:05 But I'd seen that, I'd had that idea in my brain. I don't want 12:10 this anymore but I'd never had any power to actually walk away 12:12 from it. And this was the walking away from it. And the 12:16 thing that I really want to emphasize in all of this that 12:22 started really changing my life after that was the word of God. 12:26 It was vital for me to get into the word of God. And the way 12:33 that happened was really unique. And that's the burden I 12:35 have for people is to get them into the word of God because the 12:38 word of God is where the power is. What happened is you know 12:41 is my sister found out that I was changed and she was so 12:46 happy. She came over and she was just talking to me about... You 12:49 know and she said I want you to come to my church. And I said 12:52 yeah you come to my church. And she said well let's do it next 12:54 week. And I said well at me or your church next Sunday and she 12:58 said well we can do both. And I said how can we do that. And she 13:01 said well I go to church on Saturday. And I said you go to 13:06 church on Saturday? Why do you go to church on Saturday? Sunday 13:08 is the day you go to church. And she says no, that's not what the 13:11 Bible teaches. And I was like oh. And right that moment I was 13:17 a little bit put off because my mom had called me and she was 13:22 worried about my sister because I wasn't in contact with her and 13:26 she didn't want to be around me and my mom and her were in 13:30 contact and she was writing my mother these letters and in 13:33 these letters my sister was just talking about Jesus. She was 13:36 talking about Jesus. Yeah. When she moved in with me some 13:44 Adventist person, some Adventist door-to-door person put a door 13:47 knocker on my door and she got it. It was a VOP or something 13:51 like that and the Bible studies. And that's how it started with 13:54 her. And then when she was doing those Bible studies she was 13:58 staying away from me, but after she heard I became a Christian 14:00 she came over and she wanted to witness to me. She wanted to get 14:03 me straightened out on what she was learning in these Bible 14:05 studies. Because we were really both raised in the same home. 14:08 We didn't know anything about God except for the Lord's prayer 14:10 We memorized that. Our father which art in heaven and hail 14:13 Mary full of grace. So we knew those two things. That was it. 14:16 When she told me about Saturday I said unh-huh that's not what 14:20 the Bible teaches. 14:22 I have to ask that question because some people settle into 14:25 Sabbath very naturally very quickly. Other's it's like 14:28 a slap in the face 14:30 with a wet rag. I mean it really kind of stops you in your 14:34 tracks kind of thing Saturday. You've got to be kidding. 14:37 That's right. That's how it was with me. I'm like no. I resisted 14:40 immediately. I didn't know thing about the Bible, not a 14:43 thing about the Bible. I resisted that immediately. 14:46 And the reason I resisted that was because I thought the whole 14:49 world goes to church on Sunday. That can't be what the Bible 14:52 teaches because if it was everyone would go to church on 14:56 Saturday. So it can't be. That's my reasoning. But it was after 15:01 that that my sister came over and noticed that I still had my 15:05 drum set in my living room and I was still listening to rock 15:07 and roll music and she asked me about that. And I said yes I 15:10 listen to rock and roll and she says you know rock and roll is 15:12 of the devil. And I said well it doesn't matter what music you 15:16 listen to. You know, I'm a Christian and I love Jesus and I 15:19 go to church and I read my Bible It doesn't matter what music you 15:22 listen to. And so she kind of let that rest. And then a little 15:26 while later she came over for lunch. 15:28 Here we go. 15:31 She's telling me about the health message. How she didn't 15:36 eat meat. You don't understand. That's all I ate. Rise (Reesee) 15:39 my wife, still calls me her meat and potatoes vegetarian 15:42 So I didn't touch vegetables hardly at all. You know, I might 15:46 eat a coleslaw with my Kentucky Fried Chicken. You know what I 15:49 mean but there was... And so when she told me that I thought 15:52 well mom is right because my mom was worried that she was getting 15:55 involved in some kind of cult. And back then, you know that was 15:57 in the '80s so that Jonestown had just happened, Guyana, and 16:02 so my mom was writing me these letters, I mean my mom was 16:05 talking on the phone saying my sister was writing these letters 16:06 and all she talks about is Jesus and I said well that's all I 16:09 can talk about too. So I wasn't worried. But then when she 16:12 started telling me about going to church on Saturday and not 16:15 listening to rock and roll music and not eating meat I thought 16:19 maybe my mom's right. I need to go down to this church wherever 16:24 is where my sister is going I need to check it out 16:26 because I'm her 16:27 brother and I need to protect her, so that's what I did. I 16:30 marched down to the Seventh-day Adventist church in Spokane 16:33 Valley and met the pastor. And you know my sister set that all 16:36 up. But she didn't know why I was doing this. I didn't tell 16:41 her. I said, Yeah I'd like to meet your pastor, I'd like to 16:43 check out your church. Now in my mind I was just thinking yeah 16:46 I'm going to find out what he's... I'll ask him questions 16:49 and I'll go back to my pastor at Calvary Chapel and I'll get the 16:52 answers and I'll get my sister out of this. So that was my plan 16:56 What the pastor offered to do was have Bible studies with me, 16:59 not him but a Bible worker. There was a Bible worker back 17:01 then in the church. And at first I was kind of hesitant and I 17:05 thought oh no, no, that's a great idea. I'll study with 17:07 these guys and then I'll really find out what they believe and 17:10 then I can get my sister out of this thing. 17:12 Interesting, how many, and you know this, how many baptized 17:16 Seventh-day Adventists started out with the mind set I'm going 17:22 straighten out some Adventist that is off on the 17:23 wrong you know. 17:25 I have good friend who said give me everything you got. I'll take 17:27 it to my priest. I'll be back here on Monday and we'll 17:30 straighten you out. He never came back. The priest said leave 17:35 leave them alone. Don't touch those Adventists because they 17:38 know what they're doing and they're deep in the word. 17:40 There another thing that's very interesting. That is that people 17:45 can be converted to the Lord but they still need instruction. 17:48 You'd given your life to the Lord but you didn't understand 17:51 everything that's involved. That's why Jesus said baptizing 17:55 them and then teaching them to observe all things that I have 17:59 commanded you. So you know you're growing little by little 18:03 and what happened next? 18:06 There's a lot of people that I think really are converted 18:12 even they don't know a lot necessarily about the Bible. 18:14 or about but they are having a genuine experience with God. 18:18 That's a really good point and I think that's why I think we 18:20 need to be so careful not to judge people because we can't 18:22 read the hearts you know of individuals. 18:25 You obviously were a seeker. I mean Isaiah I think it's 18:28 chapter one verse 16 says cease to do evil, learn to do good. 18:32 You got to learn what it means to do good. 18:35 I wanted to know, I always wanted to read the Bible and my 18:40 mom had sent me a Bible a year before that. In 1982 she sent me 18:43 a little King James Bible and she said King James 18:46 don't read any other 18:48 version but the King James. I don't know why she was that way 18:52 but I opened that Bible up and I started reading the book of John 18:55 John chapter one. By the time I got to the end of chapter one I 18:57 couldn't even understand anything, nothing. I just put 19:01 it down. I said that must be for the priest. There's no way 19:02 I can understand this. So a year later now in 1984, I'm going to 19:07 start having these Bible studies and you know they come over to my 19:11 house my roommates are partying. There's beer cans everywhere 19:14 but this Bible worker comes in and she's an older lady and 19:18 she's very experienced and she doesn't... You know I'm a little 19:21 uncomfortable, not sure about this, I've never done it before. 19:23 And she gives me these lessons these 20th century Bible study 19:28 lessons. 19:29 Good lessons, excellent lessons. 19:31 And what the lessons did... So I started the first 19:34 one and I wasn't into it because I wanted to learn. I was into it 19:38 because I wanted to get my sister out. So I didn't really 19:40 finish. She came over with the second. She said did you finish 19:41 I said no. She said, we can finish together. So we finished 19:44 together and it was good because she was showing me how it worked 19:47 Ask a question, give you a Bible verse, read the Bible verse, 19:51 write down the answer. I was like wow. This is the way to 19:56 learn how to study the Bible. And so I said can I have two 19:59 lessons? So she dropped off two lessons. I was just thirsty, I 20:03 was just going through it. And before I knew it I was going on 20:06 Bible studies with her. She said would you like to come on Bible 20:09 studies with me? I hadn't even gotten through the lessons yet 20:11 and I said yeah, I'd love to. She could just see that I had 20:13 this hunger and at this point my mission to get my sister out 20:18 was kind of just on the back burner. I was like I just was 20:22 wanting to learn and the more I was learning the more I wanted 20:24 to learn. And DeAnn was noticing this and Linda was noticing this 20:28 because I told them I'm going to get my sister out of this church 20:32 and okay you know. And they were wondering how I was doing. 20:35 They said it seems like you're becoming an... Because I was 20:37 telling them stuff. They said you're becoming an Adventist. 20:41 And I said to them, listen don't worry. I'm not going to become 20:47 an Adventist. All I want to do is follow the Bible. Whatever 20:50 the Bible teaches, that's what I want to do. And I had no idea 20:53 the Bible was going to lead me to be an Adventist. I honestly 20:56 just wanted to follow the Bible. And so in time... I mean my 21:00 sister was baptized I think in July of that year and I was 21:04 baptized just a few months after her. And you know the whole 21:10 experience could be summed up and I came home one day and I 21:13 looked at my drums and there was dust on them and I said wow you 21:17 know I haven't played these in a long time. And so I went over 21:19 to stereo to play a cassette tape, back in the day, you know 21:24 the cassette tapes. And I pulled out one and I was looking at 21:30 you know the different sides to see which side to play. You know 21:32 how that works, you can't paly the whole thing so I was going 21:35 through the songs and the cassette band, the rock and roll 21:38 band was Van Halen. 21:40 As I went through the songs one of the songs was entitled 21:42 Running With the Devil. That was one of their songs. I was like 21:48 I'm not running with the devil. 21:50 And in that moment I just was convicted you need to dump this. 21:57 I just took the whole case of a hundred rock and roll cassettes 22:01 of my favorites, all my favorites, took the whole case, 22:03 took it outside, put it in the garbage can. Not because my 22:06 sister told me to. You know you shouldn't listen to rock and 22:08 roll. Not because the pastor told me to. If you want to be 22:11 baptized you can't, you know, you got to get rid of your rock 22:12 and roll and your drums. No, it was because of the words of that 22:16 hymn, Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face 22:21 and the things of this world will grow strangely dim in the 22:24 light of his glory and grace. That was my experience. I was 22:27 just hungering for the Bible and everything else was just 22:30 dim, just dim. Sold my drums, ended up becoming baptized. 22:35 Bought a bunch of Spirit of Prophecy books. Spent all night 22:38 I mean just going through the Conflict of the Ages Series with 22:41 the Bible. Dan and I would play this Bible game at work 22:44 between... because he worked the swing shift and I worked 22:49 the graveyard. So we had a couple hours together and when 22:51 things were slow we played this Bible game. You'd go around the 22:54 advancing this Bible trivia thing and every time we got to 22:57 the Old Testament I would knock it out because I was reading 23:01 Patriarchs and Prophets and Prophets and Kings and Dan would 23:04 always strike out. Like he got so upset... How come you always 23:08 answer the Old Testament questions and I can never get 23:10 them. I said, because I'm reading the Old Testament, I'm 23:12 reading the commentary. It's excellent. So that was the 23:17 journey into Adventism. The whole idea of going on a Bible 23:22 study with this Bible worker before I was even baptized is 23:24 what really introduced me to ministry. 23:27 So what were you doing in terms of your secular employment or 23:31 study. What were you doing at the time when you became a 23:34 an Adventist? 23:35 So at the time I was working in the hospital. In high school I 23:37 had taken pre college but my mom left. I had no motivation, 23:42 no one to guide me. So I just ended up working full time at 23:44 the hospital. It was full coverage health, 80 percent 23:47 dental. I had three weeks paid leave. I worked there since I 23:49 was in high school and I worked there for seven years. And I 23:53 moved up from the cafeteria supervisor and then moved into 23:57 nursing tech which I was all over the hospital. I knew the 23:59 whole layout. And they loved having me there. In fact when I 24:04 quit I went to the personnel department, they asked me to 24:07 come and talk to them about it the lady that hired me. She 24:10 was so upset. She said, you can't quit. This is ridiculous. 24:14 What are you going to do? Because I was just like, I'm 24:17 done. I had gone from working full time to working two nights 24:19 a week. I was in nursing tech and I really wanted the Sabbath 24:22 off. I really wanted to do ministry. 24:24 That's the question I was going to ask you. Were you running 24:26 into Sabbath issues which you tend to do in the hospital. 24:29 Yeah you can. But you know my boss who was alcoholic. The 24:32 whole department were a bunch of party animals, right. Me and 24:35 Dan were the only ones that stepped out of that. And my boss 24:37 was like hey there's a lot of Adventists here, because I 24:39 I wanted Sabbaths off. He said a lot of Adventists work Sabbaths. 24:41 I'm not going to give you the Sabbath off. And I said, well I 24:44 know that, I know you have to work in the hospital on Sabbath 24:46 but I don't want to. I want to do ministry. And he had no, no 24:50 even any inclination to grant me that favor. So I went to the 24:54 guys. I said hey guys I said you know the worst shift in a 24:58 hospital is really about week ends. It starts Friday night. 25:01 Mine started Friday night 11:30 always did and all the guys we 25:04 were always like, okay it's your turn to work graveyard because 25:08 Joe would schedule us on these different weekends and I said 25:10 hey guys I'm willing to work graveyard weekends every single 25:14 weekend starting Saturday night 11:30 and working Sunday night 25:17 11:30 for one favor and they said what's that. I said 25:21 someone's got to cover me on Friday night if Joe puts me on 25:24 the schedule. And they said Done! They were just like Done! 25:28 So we had this nice arrangement and when Joe put me on the 25:34 schedule someone else would show up and it worked perfectly. So I 25:38 just worked those two days and it turned into 12 hour shifts 25:42 but that worked really well too. So I worked those two days and 25:44 the rest of the time I did ministry. And I had one foot out 25:47 the door. You know I was ready to go. Then it didn't take long 25:52 before you know I met Ty. We were both young men. I was 21, 25:57 just turned 22. He was 20 just turned 21 and he was doing Bible 26:02 studies and door-to-door work and that's exactly what I wanted 26:04 to do and we just started doing it. Before we knew it we were 26:08 just doing meetings, doing weekends, talking to different 26:11 people. The thing that really floated us were there were two 26:15 things within those first couple years was number one just young 26:19 were converted and on fire for God. No one want's to listen to a 26:21 young person, converted and on fire for God. 26:22 Then the second thing was we were just drinking down the 26:28 Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy I mean just swallowing it down 26:31 They were asking me how long you... We said two years. Man 26:34 you know more Spirit of Prophecy Man how did you learn all that? 26:37 We said I don't know, we just read it. We would tithe our time 26:41 and we would spend 10 percent of our time in the word and 26:44 the Spirit of Prophecy and just listen to all the stuff. I mean, 26:47 I went through all Joe Crews' library. I went to England in 26:50 '85 to convert my family, that's a whole different story. 26:55 All his library, I just marked all through my Bible, every 26:57 Bible study, everything before I got... That sword was sharp. 27:00 And I started cutting people's ears off and I didn't understand 27:03 why they couldn't hear what I was saying. Sure. Just slicing 27:06 people's ears off. So that was the start and I felt like it 27:09 launched, you know just launched But unfortunately, we came into 27:13 the church at a time when there was a lot of negativism and 27:18 independent ministry and a lot of separation from the church 27:22 and we ended up in that group. You know, we rode that wave. 27:26 And when Light Bearers started Ty and I as co-directors together 27:30 we both were in an independent ministry. Ty was receiving and 27:36 baptizing people, doing our own home churches. The church is in 27:40 apostasy, we don't care what they think. Who are they to tell 27:44 us anything. You know, that kind of stuff. But it didn't take 27:47 long for us to realize, wait a minute. Because you read the 27:50 Spirit of Prophecy you're not going to miss it. This is God's 27:54 church. This is the one object on earth upon which he puts his 27:57 supreme regard and it's the church militant, not the church 28:00 triumphant. And there's wheat and tares, there's good and bad, 28:02 there's Judas and Peters. Don't hurl your thunderbolts 28:05 against God's church militant. 28:07 And we were so convicted and realized that and 28:11 sure enough we started reconciling even were rebaptized 28:16 Not for a moral fall, but because we had missed the mark and 28:19 so many had stumbled over that... 28:22 I want to pause you because pastor you recall back in the 28:25 mid '80s there were a lot of off shoots and a lot of... 28:28 And there's one thing to be an independent ministry, there's 28:31 one thing to be a supporting ministry. They're both 28:33 independent but their relationship to the body is very 28:35 much different. We had a lot of people leaving and starting 28:39 their kind of things. 28:41 Hope International was one of the big... 28:43 We were with them at that time and Heartland at that time 28:46 and Steps to Life, and Countdown Ministries. 28:50 They were four big ones and Light Bearers. We were all in 28:54 that together. 28:56 The trinity of independent business. We were just in it... 28:57 Praise the Lord that your hearts were sincere and I think where 29:08 there's sincerity the Lord accepts what you have and what 29:10 you bring, you know, so he has a platform to kind of bring you 29:13 back. So you didn't stay out. You saw that the church was 29:18 still God's church and you had abandoned it... 29:22 Dr. Agatha Thrash had a lot to do with that. She would come 29:25 to our camp meetings when we were independent every year. People 29:28 would criticize her and she would say no those boys are 29:30 honest. I believe their honest. She just influenced us and spoke 29:33 to us, and met with us and counseled us. Sure enough, in 29:37 time. I remember the 1992 G.C. we talked with her and she just 29:40 said well, she said you know she was just so peaceful and so you 29:45 know. It just depends, should we work with the church, it just 29:48 depends. If you want to 29:49 have a big ministry and little influence just keep doing what 29:53 you're doing. But if you'd like to have a bigger influence in 29:55 the church even though you may have a smaller ministry, you 29:59 know financially etc., etc., she said work with the church. And 30:02 I just never forgot that. It was like yeah, you're right. Are we 30:05 in this to have bid stuff for ourselves or are we in this to 30:08 have more of an influence you no outward influence doing the 30:11 evangelism etc. So right after that we started working with the 30:15 church. We went down to what was called the West Point School of 30:17 Evangelism. Mark Finley had just moved to It Is Written with 30:22 Teenie and they started this 10-day evangelistic instruction 30:27 and education thing and we were there. George Vandeman was still 30:33 alive. Ken Cox was there. Mark and Teenie. Don and Margie Grey, some 30:37 of these names. And we got our training and if we promised to do 30:42 three evangelistic meetings in the next three years, one a year 30:46 we'd get a full set of the slides, the slides, remember the 30:51 slides. Click, click, click or wait a minute, put another one 30:54 in. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick yeah, sometimes it would get stuck. 30:58 And we were so excited to have the slides. 31:02 And we started doing evangelism and it was just 31:07 it was just our thing. ( Praise the Lord.) I mean it was the 31:10 place to be. And it pulled us away from 31:11 spending of all our time on the church and all the issues 31:14 in the church and more into... When you're doing evangelism and 31:16 try and reach out to souls You have a completely different 31:19 perspective on the way we focused. And you realize, you're 31:23 bringing people in and they come into these churches and you don't 31:25 want people clobbering them over the head and telling them all 31:28 the stuff they know that a fourth generation Adventist 31:31 mind knows. Know what I mean? You want to bring them in gently 31:34 and lead them along and you want people in the church to 31:36 understand that and try to work together and then you have a 31:38 completely different perspective Because we came in... I think 31:42 God said okay these guys are just you know gung-ho, but not 31:46 everyone comes in that way. I mean you could have told us 31:48 anything. Anything Ellen White said, anything the Bible said 31:50 Yeah, I'll take it, let's do it. But not everyone comes in that 31:53 way. A lot of people come in and it takes them time. I remember 31:57 hearing about a couple that took them a year. I said what took 32:00 took you so long? Well we had questions and we needed to know. 32:03 In my mind I couldn't realize that. As soon as I learned the 32:06 truth I'm into it. But as soon as I learned... That verse that 32:09 really hit was Daniel 7:25: He shall think to change times and 32:13 laws. And when that verse was explained to me in relation to 32:16 the history, I was just like wow God, you knew about all of this. 32:20 That's it for me, that's it. I mean a lot of research. I was 32:24 still... even though I was still skeptical you know to some 32:27 degree but the Bible just was there, verse after verse after 32:31 verse. And that's my burden, the word of God. We're losing it 32:35 right now. We're losing touch as Adventists with the word of 32:39 God. And it's being transformed, it's being changed, it's being 32:44 you know minimized. All kinds of stuff is happening to the 32:47 word. But we've been told this in the Bible and Spirit of 32:49 Prophecy we've been 32:51 told an attack's going to take place on the word. 32:52 Fundamental belief number one. 32:54 We've got to hit that because that's what 32:57 transformed my life and I think that's what's going to transform 32:59 the lives of everybody out there that's open to the truth. 33:02 The point you just made is very important, it's being minimized. 33:06 No one is bold enough to just discount the word but we're 33:11 giving it less relevance, we're giving it less relevance. 33:13 It doesn't mean exactly what it means 33:15 or it doesn't mean that it applies to me 33:18 exactly as it says. So it's being minimized. It got to ask 33:21 you because your sister actually began ministering to you before 33:25 she was baptized. If I doing the timeline correctly. 33:28 Yeah, yeah, it was before she was baptized. 33:29 Yeah. Did she stay in the church Is she still in the church today 33:32 She's not in the church per se. She's a believer. She believes 33:36 the truth but she ended up moving back to England and her 33:40 experience in England is a lot different. The church over there 33:44 is a lot different. The dynamics is a lot different. And she 33:48 really struggled with that and then she ended up having three 33:53 boys, not being married, so you know she went out for a while 33:57 and she tried to get back in, you know she came back to the 34:00 church. Yeah, it didn't work too well you know being a single mom 34:03 with three boys. There were a lot of people that loved her 34:07 because I'd go over there and I'd meet with her church family 34:09 whatever and do meetings there but there were other people 34:13 that didn't and you know there's the influence there from various 34:21 nations of England is not all English people but some of the 34:26 influences there, very conservative backgrounds and 34:30 very toe the line type of atmosphere. And she went into 34:34 that and it was hard for her. And it was hard for her 34:36 especially since she had been so up here, then she'd backslidden 34:40 and fallen and then coming back in. She remembered how she was. 34:43 And so it was hard for her to really make that transition. So 34:46 she's not going to church right now but when I talk to her you 34:50 know God is number one, praying, reading the Bible, believing all 34:56 that she's learned over the years. 34:59 This is the hope that I have and I know both of you share that 35:02 hope that's it's in there you know it's in there and before 35:06 Christ comes again we are going to be surprised by the 35:12 reconversion, if I can use that term, of those who have 35:16 sort of fallen away but they never lost it. 35:18 It's still in there. I hold onto 35:21 that hope. I've got some family members who once were, not quite 35:24 now, but it's in there and if you talk to them long enough you 35:28 can tell it's in there, they're just not doing it. I think a lot 35:31 of people before Christ comes again are going to step back up 35:34 and step on and come back to the Lord. Yeah. 35:36 So then you were cofounder of Light Bearers Ministry and that 35:45 ministry has existed what 35 years? 35:47 Yeah, we started in '85, that was the time of our first camp 35:51 meeting, Final Preparation camp meeting, in Nero, Washington and 35:55 at the time Light Bearers was located in Spokane and it 36:01 started under Lamp Lighters. Lamp Lighters was a home school 36:05 ministry in Walla Walla and we were under the umbrella but you 36:08 know it grew really fast in those days. We had about 36:12 I mean it was about 300 people. That was fast. I remember 36:16 we'd hand write you know 36:17 out all of our... And so they asked us, hey you need to start 36:21 your own thing. So someone came up with the name you know we 36:24 can be Light Bearers 36:26 in the World and so we officially incorporated in 1986. 36:30 We became Light Bearers Ministry and then in '87 Ty and I kind of 36:34 separated from another person who was really into home school 36:38 and really into like a book store type thing and we moved to 36:43 another location and focused on publishing. And we started a 36:46 branch of Light Bearers which was the publishing ministry. 36:49 We did publishing, we did health, we did the school, 36:51 we had a two week step fast Bible study school. 36:53 That's how I met Rise, she came up for that in '88 but 36:57 in time we had too many brands in the fire and we kind of 37:02 backed away the health focus and the school focus and focused 37:07 on publishing. We connected with people in third world countries 37:11 who needed literature and back then you could send end boxes. 37:14 End boxes was just a box that was put at the post office in a 37:18 canvas bag and shipped anywhere for pennies. And when 37:21 it got there it was 37:22 all beat up but there was stuff that would survive. And so 37:25 we did that in '87 and in probably '88 or '89. We shipped 37:31 a container of literature with a pickup truck in it to Africa and 37:36 it just started taking off. Our ministry primarily became a 37:41 publishing ministry. 37:42 Now who did your printing for you. Did you print your own 37:44 material? Did you get presses and what not, did someone print 37:46 for you? Because this is a big undertaking. 37:48 We went to a lot of different press type people and asked for 37:53 counsel. Many of them told us don't do your own thing, it's 37:57 going to be a hassle, it's going to be hard. So we worked with 38:01 these guys on some of our little books but we didn't have a lot 38:04 of money and it was so expensive so Ty and I just basically said 38:07 you know what these guys must be in business for some reason. 38:10 So we said we think we can do this. And we actually bought 38:14 you know we thought it was a press. It was actually what they 38:17 call a duplicator. We bought one of those. We worked on it all 38:20 night. I mean we were up all night and when the guy came to 38:23 train us the next morning we were asking questions that he 38:26 was like I've never had these questions. We had a flyer we had 38:29 all kinds of stuff taking place and he was like... So we told 38:32 the story and he said Ah well these are great questions. So 38:35 we started buying used, we bought a new one and then we 38:38 bought used equipment. It would break down. We didn't know 38:40 anything about presses. We learned as we went. Ty actually 38:42 ran it, to begin with, and then we had other people that would 38:44 run them. But we just kept doing that and finally we bought a 38:47 brand new press, 1.3 million dollar press. And it was a huge 38:52 venture and we still have that press to this day and it's 38:55 what's called a Perfecter. It does roll, it does both sides 38:58 by the time it comes out. It had six towers so it would do four 39:02 colors if you needed it too. And we stopped doing magazines and 39:06 booklets and anything like that and all we did was tracts, just 39:09 printed tracts by the millions. I mean the last year I was there 39:13 we sent out I think 20 containers which is probably 39:17 around 40 million pieces of literature. Many different 39:20 different languages, all over the world. Lots of stories I 39:23 could tell you about that but it just became the thing, 39:26 publishing and then preaching, publishing and preaching. 39:29 Now were you funding this? Offerings? Donations? 39:31 It was just donations and offerings. We were a self 39:35 supporting ministry. We weren't agitating for tithe in any sense 39:39 of the word. We were just telling people that you know 39:42 work with the church and send your tithe to the church. We 39:46 would receive offerings but there were people who had a 39:49 heart for publishing, for getting the printed page out. 39:52 There's certain counsels we're given about the publishing work 39:56 and the impact it's going to have and that would work on 39:59 people's hearts and we would get huge donations for publishing 40:03 only and we would just designate them. And every year in the last 40:05 few years I became the publishing house manager, sole 40:08 publishing house manager focusing on just getting our 40:11 literature out. And we ended up getting a donation for a million 40:15 dollars and we just bought Bibles, as many Bibles as you 40:18 could buy, just filled the warehouse full of Bibles because 40:21 that was the deal. So once you got the literature out and Bible 40:23 studies out then people are like they don't have a Bible. We 40:27 would have to put the Bible verses into our studies so that 40:29 they could read them because there's no Bibles in some of 40:32 these places where this literature was going. And then 40:34 we started shipping the Bibles out and that to me is a huge 40:41 ministry that is going to reach a lot of people in the end of 40:43 time _ end of time. 40:45 I want you to just sort of comb back in your mind a little bit 40:48 You talked about that million dollar donation. You let that 40:51 slide by kind of fast. But that's sizable. How during those 40:56 early days you knew that this was of God by the miracles that 41:00 he was doing to you, for you, with you, through you. Is there 41:04 anything that stands out that said to you, that verified yeah 41:07 God is in this, this shows me that God is part of this? 41:11 Well we went through some really difficult times 41:13 especially when we started working with the church because 41:15 we lost of support from people who are like antichurch and so 41:18 they were just giving us money because... So we lost a lot of 41:21 support and the thing that really hit home with me was the 41:26 inspired instruction we were given. And one statement that 41:30 wasn't from the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy that was from a guy 41:34 by the name of Hudson Taylor. He was a missionary to China. 41:38 And he worked under very dire circumstances financially. 41:41 In fact I think he even lost his support and he was over there 41:44 from his home land and struggled financially. One of the things 41:49 that he said, I read his book and he said God's work done in 41:52 God's way will never lack God's supply. So it was reading these 41:58 statements, this counsel, the blueprint about publishing. 42:03 I was shown 7T, 140 that the work of that other angel who 42:07 comes down from heaven and lightens the earth with his 42:09 glory will be done primarily through the publishing work. 42:11 And then looking at our publishing institutions all over 42:14 the world seen one after another fail and close, fail and close. 42:19 And then more recently even seeing our publishing here 42:21 closing and failing and realizing that for decades even 42:25 in Ellen White's time we haven't been publishing what God wants 42:27 us to publish. We haven't been putting the material out that 42:30 God wants us to put out. And so realizing that and doing that 42:35 and seeing God bless that and talking to people and realizing 42:38 that God, his Spirit is moving on their hearts, because they 42:41 have the same burden, that's what got us through. I think 42:44 that is the key; to follow God's blueprint, to trust him in his 42:48 work in his way will never lack his supply. And then you just 42:51 leave it. You can't be stressed about it... 42:54 Do you think James that perhaps the counsels that Ellen White 43:00 has in principle in this age would apply to DVDs and 43:07 television and some TV for example. 43:09 Absolutely. 43:10 You know getting the message out Because there's a lot of people 43:12 that don't read these days. You know they're too much in a rush 43:16 they're in a hurry. It's hard to get people to watch a one hour 43:20 sermon too you know. This age you know when everything changes 43:23 just like this. So I think the principle that Ellen White wrote 43:27 applies also to not only publishing ministries, 43:31 ministries like Secrets Unsealed where we get out the message 43:34 through social media, through television and also through the 43:39 printed page but not as much. 43:40 So it's interesting because there was a time when you 43:44 couldn't really reach a lot of people in the world except 43:47 through the printed page if you could get it to them and now you 43:51 go into some of these rural areas where there are grass huts 43:54 and you go by and there is a television in a grass hut. 43:56 You know what I'm saying. 43:58 And these countries are wanting to get the media in 44:03 there and they want at that communication. I go to Zimbabwe 44:06 and everyone's got a cell phone. Some their cell phones are 44:08 further ahead of our cell phones that's true. So we've seen that 44:14 transition take place and it's for other purposes. You know 44:17 the devil wants to get media into every country and every 44:21 home because he wants to get his message in there. And God is 44:24 going to overrule that just like you said and he's going to get 44:27 message in there through this means. 44:30 So you have administrative experience, vast administrative 44:35 experience and also experience preaching. You've taught also 44:41 in other supporting ministries of the church. Could you tell 44:45 us a little about you know your travels and where you've 44:49 preached and where you've taught 44:50 Well like I have a real burden for teaching, not just because 44:54 I met my wife in a school and fell in love. 44:57 Which we will come back to. 44:59 My mom was a teacher and so I think it's a thing that's in me. 45:03 My son's a natural at that too. When I had the Bible study 45:08 school my burden was to especially do the Bible so I was 45:11 called AFCO had to come down and do a how to study the Bible 45:14 course at their school and then for years we had a school but it 45:18 kind of faded away. So there were a couple of schools... My 45:22 love is Daniel/Revelation so there were a couple schools, one 45:26 is in Florida and another one on the west coast that were 45:31 teaching and training young people. I just had a burden for 45:33 young people so I would go there and do the Revelation series. 45:35 And I still do that. There's another school on the east coast 45:38 that just started up recently. I did the Revelation for them. 45:41 And then in 2011 Light Bearers and Arise came together and that 45:50 was like yeah, all right, let's get back into the school. You 45:54 know we'd been doing the publishing, we've got that down 45:56 now, that's going. Let's get back now and start educating. 45:59 We need to pass on our knowledge and experience to the next 46:02 generation. And so that was just it. And as the Arise program 46:07 picked up and really took off we saw a lot of the students 46:12 coming in for three months and then falling flat on their face, 46:14 coming in for three months and falling flat on their face, 46:16 especially the young people. They weren't grounded. Three 46:19 months wasn't enough. So two of them came to us and said hey 46:24 we need to do something. We've got an outline here what we 46:27 think is needed and it was basically discipleship ministry. 46:30 A six month to one year follow-up ministry. And the guys said we 46:35 can't do that, we travel, we're not available. And I said I'll 46:37 do it. I said, I'll stop traveling and I'll do it. I said 46:40 I just have a burden for that. So they were just like whoa. So 46:43 I stopped traveling and I just started doing a discipleship 46:46 ministry. I had three interns that were senior interns that 46:49 had been interns for a year, worked with them, 46:51 organized it and we just started just pouring 46:54 into these students and they then 46:57 would do outreach in the community. Their outreach would 47:00 be based on what they felt God was calling them to do. But in 47:04 the context of all of that, you know, you travel around. I've 47:07 traveled to every continent. In Africa, Europe, Asia, Pakistan 47:15 three times. That was very interesting. That was like going 47:16 to another world almost. And in all of those places, especially 47:20 in Pakistan the thing that I ended up doing other than 47:22 evangelism was an educational teaching. In Pakistan I was 47:28 asked to teach a class on Revelation in the afternoon in 47:32 Pasha. And there were 12 pastors there. And one of them 47:37 was a little Pentecostal pastor by the name of Zeta Zeroach. 47:40 And he had 120 pastors under him and he wanted me to come back 47:45 and teach them. He said because you've just opened up the book 47:48 of Revelation like I've never seen it before. And he said I 47:51 don't live here in Pasha. I live in not Karachi but ah 47:59 another city I don't remember it now. It was a more moderate 48:03 city. And so I went from Pasha to some city the next year. 48:08 And there were 220 pastors there And then we didn't finish. 48:11 I have to tell you the story but I know we're running out of time 48:13 So the next year they wanted me to come back and teach Daniel 48:18 and Revelation, the rest of Daniel and Revelation to more 48:19 the rest of the Dane Revelation, there were 300. 48:22 There was a Catholic priest in there. 48:24 And that Methodist pastor became an Adventist pastor. And 48:27 they were just loving the truth. They'd never heard Daniel and 48:32 the 2300 day prophecy and the 70-week prophecy. They'd always 48:35 heard it from the left behind view, never heard it in the view 48:39 that we presented. And they just loved it. They had me go over it 48:43 twice because it was just new to them. And so traveling from 48:47 place to place... Went to Soluci University in Zimbabwe. I had 48:53 great experience there but I went in there to teach the three 48:55 angels message to a bunch of Adventists, right. Well there 48:58 were 2000 students there and there were only I think 400 49:04 Adventists. I didn't know that. I thought they were all 49:06 Adventists. No. They had recently become the second 49:08 largest university in Zimbabwe and they had opened the doors 49:12 to everyone. Well Zimbabwe is a largely Catholic country and 49:17 most of these students were Catholics. And when I hit 49:20 when I was reading through the everlasting gospel, fear God 49:22 give glory to him, worship him. When I hit Babylon, the mark of 49:26 beast they went ballistic literally threatening me. They 49:32 had a body guard cover me and and they came after me. 49:34 I went into this question and answer time 49:35 and these four girls came in and 49:36 they were just ready to throw their chairs at me. It was such 49:39 a good experience with that crowd because I just went to the 49:41 word of God. And it was funny because... Let me tell you this 49:44 one story. You know they didn't have Bibles and they were like 49:49 how dare you come here and tell us that we're worshiping on the 49:51 wrong day. And I said well I totally understand where you're 49:55 coming from. I was raised Catholic. I get it. It's a 49:58 struggle. I went through the same thing. I smiled but they 50:01 were not smiling. And I said let's open our Bible's to 50:03 Genesis. So they opened their Bibles. They had one Bible 50:05 between four of them. I said read it. She started reading. 50:08 You know God created... the evening and the morning were 50:11 the first day. She got a pencil. She wrote down Monday. And she 50:17 looked up at me and she said who's to say it wasn't Monday? 50:19 I said it was Monday the first day was Monday. You know, you 50:22 know where we're going with this I'm thinking oh no. So I'm 50:27 praying. I don't know what to do. I've never done...You know 50:30 how you have a situation. Nothing like that's ever 50:32 happened and I'm thinking what. And so then the Lord impresses 50:36 with Luke. And so I said let's turn to the book of Luke. And as 50:42 we turn there what day did Jesus die on? And they said Easter 50:45 Friday, I mean not Easter Friday good Friday. I said 50:48 what day was he 50:49 resurrected on? On Easter Sunday I said okay now read these 50:52 verses. And they read the verses She read the verses. Now every 50:54 time she'd read a verse she'd have this cock... She read these 50:57 verses and her head was just buried in the Bible. She 51:00 wouldn't lift it up. She wouldn't lift it up. Conviction 51:04 was just there. She exploded okay, okay you're right, Okay 51:08 it's Saturday. Okay I get it. But you Adventists are this 51:12 and you Adventists are that. She was still having this 51:14 conversation and whatever. It was just good. But it was the 51:16 word of God. People don't know the word of God. My aunt, 51:21 Catholic you know. Why are you going to church on Saturday? 51:23 Well it's the seventh... How do you know the seventh day's not 51:26 Sunday. So I went and got a calendar and I said what day is 51:28 the seventh day on this calendar And she's like wow I never 51:31 noticed that before. And so now they changed the calendar of 51:34 course. 51:36 And of course it gets confusing Pope Francis calls 51:38 Sunday the Sabbath 51:40 People get totally confused. I've found two different kinds 51:43 of reactions when people hear for the first time about Babylon 51:47 and the mark of the beast. I've had people who were Catholic 51:52 say how is it that I've been deceived for so long? And yet 52:00 others that get angry with the person who's teaching them. 52:02 I was upset. After I realized it I was upset with the church. 52:07 Yeah, how could they do this? This isn't right. It bothered me 52:12 It's shocking to spend so many years to be so steeped in 52:15 something and to realize it's not biblical and it's error. 52:20 That is really something that can set you back. Now time to 52:23 give you_. Quickly. 52:24 We only have five minutes. 52:26 Yeah. We need two minutes on how you met your wife and who 52:29 popped the question first. Then you got to bring you here 52:31 because this is where you are. 52:33 That is a hard thing to condense but basically she came to the 52:38 school and I noticed her but at that time I had finally come to 52:41 the place where I was open to get married. For the first 52:43 couple of years as an Adventist I was like the Lord's coming 52:46 soon. There's no time for marriage no time for kids. I 52:48 wouldn't even go to a wedding. And Ty was just like man James 52:51 comes over to my house and riles up my kids. He needs his 52:53 own wife, he need his own kids. So he was looking me earnestly. 52:56 He had failed big time twice and so he'd lost all credibility. 53:02 Well Rise came and I 53:04 thought she had a boyfriend so I wasn't like even looking that 53:07 way. But he invited her and her mom over to his house and he 53:12 was asking all these questions and he found out all about her 53:14 but he wasn't going to say anything to me. So she came and 53:17 she left. And about a week or so later I got this Bible in the 53:21 mail and it was a Bible that had been purchased out of 53:24 school. It had the wide margin with a navy cover. Rise had 53:28 purchased a Bible like that, put it in a navy cover and this one 53:32 was not hers. She accidentally they'd stopped on the way back 53:36 to Loma Linda where they were living. They'd stopped at some 53:37 friends' house and she had actually grabbed the Bible of a 53:40 guy a young man who'd been at the school with her also. This 53:44 Bible that she grabbed happened to have my name in it. No one 53:47 had ever asked me to do this before and I don't think one 53:49 person's ever asked me since. Would you dedicate this Bible 53:51 you know dedicated by and so I wrote my name. He didn't write 53:53 his name in it yet, but I wrote my name in it. So she sent it 53:56 to me because she'd never be able to figure this out. And Ty 53:59 was all about Rise and me getting together but he wasn't 54:03 willing to broach me on it unless I brought up the name. 54:09 I wasn't going to bring up her name. She's got a boyfriend and 54:11 she's off she's gone. But I had this Bible and it was like to 54:13 Rise I should write her back. And I said naught I better not. 54:16 Why can't I make up my mind? I mean this is silly. Will she 54:21 get the wrong impression. What am I thinking. So I said ah I'll 54:24 ask Ty. That was it. I asked Ty. And he said who? And I said Rise 54:28 and he said okay James I prayed about this. This is an answer to 54:32 prayer. This is the woman you need to marry. Dah, dah, dah, 54:33 dah, dah, dah. I was like what? He had forced me to write her 54:38 a letter basically and just tell her how serious I was and she 54:41 had just been reconverted and she had given up on guys. She 54:45 was just ready to follow God figured she'd be an old maid 54:50 and I got this letter from you saying hey I'm interested in 54:53 seeing if it's God's will for us to connect. And I had said 54:57 _, and that was it. The rest is history. 54:59 The matchmaker. I didn't know that Ty was a matchmaker. 55:04 Now since our time really slipping away we got to let you 55:07 answer this in your own way. Walk us through the steps that 55:11 the Lord took you through to bring you here. 55:15 To Secrets? 55:16 To Secrets and you've got to do it in two minutes and 44 55:18 seconds. 55:19 Well we started and continued to be a very 55:24 conservative ministry Light Bearers and I felt over 55:29 the years that 55:30 that was changing and we were moving in a little bit of a 55:33 different direction. And you know I think Ty felt that too. 55:36 The thing was that I was reluctant to move in some areas 55:43 in that direction, more reluctant I think than Ty was. 55:45 I don't want to say this. Our church is filled good honest 55:50 Christians but they see things a little bit differently. And so 55:53 we can't read the hearts and judge the hearts, but we did 55:55 know, Ty and I both realized that there was tension between 55:59 us over a lot of ministry things and he broached the subject and 56:04 he did right after Rise and I prayed about me resigning 56:08 from Light Bearers. 56:10 I just felt there was a growing apart and a tension 56:13 and some things that were happening that I wasn't very 56:15 comfortable with. And so I prayed with Rise and Rise was 56:19 shocked and say I prayed and the next day I got this email from 56:23 Ty basically saying hey I think either you need to resign or I 56:26 need to resign or we need to figure this out and he came over 56:30 and I said Yep, I'm ready to resign. We worked for a few 56:33 months, we talked whatever but the more we talked the more we 56:35 talked the more we realized we were just going in different 56:38 directions. And so I just followed through with the 56:40 resignation. After that I said I'm going to take one year off. 56:43 And it was a few months later that I got a call from Secrets 56:47 and they said hey we heard. What's going on. And I said well 56:50 I've got a statement that I can send you, a resignation 56:53 statement. Send it. So I sent it. And then that's when you and 56:57 I started talking. And you just said, Hey James here's our 57:00 history. We've been looking. We're actually open. 57:02 Could you pray about this and we'll pray about this and boy 57:06 we received a number of calls but when I talked to Rise about 57:09 it this was the one that really felt right. 57:11 And then when we came down here 57:13 that was it. It was like wow this is just a great atmosphere. 57:17 I love this. I love the atmosphere. I love the focus, 57:21 the conservative focus with the relaxed atmosphere, you know the 57:25 vibe, everything, the spirit of God and I'm just eager and 57:29 happy about the whole thing and my wife is too. We just want... 57:32 We've been sitting around idle for a year basically, I shouldn't 57:36 say that Pastor Bohr that we're just ready to go. 57:39 Praise the Lord. I am so thankful that you decided to 57:42 come to Secrets Unsealed. We are looking forward to a great 57:47 relationship and doing things that I couldn't do or C.A. 57:52 couldn't do but you can. I think that you're going to do for 57:55 example a series on the 28 fundamental beliefs in just a 57:59 couple of months and we're looking forward to that and we 58:03 got to make you official James. Okay. To be official you have to 58:10 wear this cap it says sub PD I like this hat. And then also 58:15 you know I think it's Thursdays here that we wear I think this 58:25 Sun TV T-shirt. By the way, if you want to get one, those who 58:29 who are watching, these are available from Secrets Unsealed. 58:33 I'm going to put that on right now too. 58:35 Welcome. We're glad you're here. 58:38 It's good to be here. 58:39 And we look forward to having Rise. I know she didn't come 58:41 with you on this trip but we're looking forward to having her 58:43 come as well. She has a Master's degree I guess in nutrition. 58:47 And we want to have her do a program as well. I think that 58:51 the Lord is going to work wonderfully and powerfully 58:53 through you here at Secrets Unsealed. Thank you for 58:56 listening to the voice of God. 58:58 Amen, thank you Pastor Bohr. Thank you C.A. 58:59 Any last words C.A.? 59:01 Well we hope that you have enjoyed our time together to get 59:06 to know a little bit more about James. He comes with a wealth 59:09 of experience, a lot of potential. He's done a lot of 59:13 things for the Lord, yet the Lord had much more for him to 59:15 accomplish. Thank you for joining us, 59:17 We'll see you again next time. Bye-bye and God bless. Amen 59:21 ♪ ♪ |
Revised 2021-06-17