Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Tom Shepherd
Series Code: HPOV
Program Code: HPOV000030A
00:16 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and this is Dr. Tom Sheperd
00:19 from Andrews University Seminary 00:21 where he is the Professor of New Testament Interpretation 00:25 and he's also the Director for the Ph. D. in Religion Program 00:31 as well as the Th. D. in Religion, 00:35 so we're very pleased to have you here, 00:38 and what this series is titled is, 00:40 "Love, Marriage, Sex, and Divorce 00:42 according to the New Testament. " 00:44 This is... as we've said so many times... 00:47 a program that actually... 00:49 a class that you teach at Andrews University 00:52 and we've got a lot to talk about today 00:54 so we're going to hop right into it, 00:56 we've been talking about the instructions to wives 01:01 from Ephesians 5 where Paul was talking about 01:04 "wives submit to your husband as to the Lord," 01:08 and I would like, first, if you would, 01:12 just, kind of recap what we've talked about 01:14 in case someone has missed it. 01:16 Okay, we notice that in Ephesians 5:21, 01:21 Paul presents his thesis statement 01:22 where he says that you are to submit to one another 01:28 out of reverence for Christ. 01:29 And this becomes the thesis for the entire instruction 01:33 that he gives to the entire Christian family, 01:36 then we notice that he tells wives 01:40 that they are to submit to their own husbands 01:42 we indicated that "submission" does not mean inferiority, 01:46 it does not mean denying any personal relationship. 01:49 It doesn't deny a personal relationship with God, 01:53 and it does not suggest that the person is somehow 01:56 a doormat that people can just walk all over or abuse, 01:59 so, that's not what submission means, 02:01 we found that the focus of submission, 02:05 according to Paul in Ephesians 5 verse 22, 02:08 was to their own husbands, not to other people 02:12 and that the paradigm for submission was 02:14 the wife's submission to Christ. 02:16 We found that the center of power had shifted 02:19 actually from the husband to Christ... 02:22 it's as to the Lord... 02:24 and the wife has a personal relationship with Christ, 02:27 the submission to the Lord teaches how to submit 02:30 but also limits the submission 02:32 to only that which is consistent with the teachings of Christ. 02:36 Amen, I was just going to say, 02:40 so that's basically looking at the thesis statement 02:43 in verse 21 of Ephesians 5, "submit to one another" 02:47 now we've talked about 02:48 wives submitting to your husband as to the Lord, 02:51 that's verse 22, 02:52 so we're ready for verses 23 and 24. 02:54 Is that correct? That's correct. 02:56 So let's read those. 02:57 Ephesians chapter 5 and we look at verse 23, 03:02 "For the husband is head of the wife, 03:05 as also Christ is head of the Church; 03:08 and He is... " He... being Christ... 03:11 "... is the Savior of the body. 03:13 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, 03:17 so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. " 03:21 Now, what does Paul mean here by the word "head," 03:26 husband is the "head" of the wife? 03:28 Well, that's... 03:29 there is a huge fight over this issue actually 03:31 in New Testament Studies and the meaning of that term, 03:34 here we'll notice that the reason why the wife is to submit 03:40 is because the husband is the head of the wife 03:43 but what does that word, "head" mean? 03:46 It seems to... or seems to suggest 03:49 some kind of position of power or leadership, 03:51 but we need to look at this more closely 03:53 since it's a very hot topic, it's disputed a lot, 03:58 the Greek term is, "Kephalé," a term which means 04:03 both literally "head" 04:05 and metaphorically it's used in a variety of ways, 04:10 so Paul uses the term 18 times, so we can... 04:15 we can... you know... 04:16 when you find a passage like this 04:18 and you say, "Well, what does that mean, 04:20 what does he mean by this word, 'head' here?" 04:22 If you go and see the way he uses it in other places, 04:25 that may help you understand how he uses it here, 04:29 okay, so, we want to look at a few of these 04:32 in different places where Paul uses the term 04:35 the first is... the idea of a literal head, 04:39 like the head of your body, like... you know... 04:42 what caps on top of your neck? 04:45 Paul uses this term... we kind of wonder a little bit 04:49 but Paul uses the term over in Romans 12 verse 20, 04:54 if we can just read that verse. 04:55 Certainly, Romans 12 and verse 20, 04:58 "Therefore, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; 05:02 if he is thirsty, give him a drink: 05:04 for in so doing 05:06 you will heap coals of fire on his head. " 05:10 It's an interesting verse isn't it? 05:13 I really wish that everywhere in the world 05:17 where people were fighting, 05:18 that they would do what this verse says. 05:21 "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; 05:24 if he is thirsty, give him something to drink... " 05:27 Now, let me ask you if you've ever heard this 05:30 because I read it somewhere once and I don't know... 05:33 what I... because it used to... 05:35 you know, it almost sounds retributive 05:37 when you're saying that in "subduing" 05:40 you heap coals of fire on his head, 05:42 but what I heard was, during the time, 05:45 that they wore this "thing" on their head 05:47 and if they were in repentance, they put coals on top of the... 05:51 some kind of a platter on their head... and that... 05:54 in other words... by us feeding our enemy 05:57 and giving them a drink, 05:59 that it would cause them to repent. 06:00 Have you ever heard that story? 06:02 I haven't that story but that's an interesting idea, 06:06 I take it here, in terms of "burning coals on their heads," 06:10 that they'll be ashamed, it's painful when somebody is... 06:17 when you've been mean to them 06:19 and they're nice to you, 06:20 yeah, I'm giving the same kind of idea, 06:22 they're going to repent, 06:24 they're going to change their ways, 06:25 so this may be... it's almost metaphoric 06:27 but it's really, you know, "burning coals on the head," 06:30 that's like... this is the... your literal head. 06:33 Now, actually, there are a number of times 06:35 that Paul uses it in a literal way... 06:38 is not very common, 06:39 there's another passage that's also 06:41 very challenging to understand over in 1st Corinthians 11 06:46 but Paul talks about... 06:47 a man not wearing something on his head, 06:50 and the wife is supposed to wear something on her head, 06:53 that's a literal head even though in the passage 06:56 sometimes the term is used metaphorically. 06:59 But I wanted to go to some other passages 07:02 that are probably a little more easy to understand and grasp, 07:08 and when we come to the metaphoric use of this term, 07:11 there are three different concepts 07:14 that have been suggested 07:15 as the meaning of the word "head. " 07:19 One is the idea of source or origin 07:23 or even temporal priorities, something that comes earlier, 07:26 so if I said, "That head of the Nile... " 07:29 you're thinking the source... where it begins, 07:34 the head of the Nile, if I... 07:36 the second usage is the concept of something that's preeminent 07:39 or foremost or representative of others, 07:42 if I were to say, "the head of the human race," 07:46 we think of Adam, he was a representative man, 07:50 he was out there in front of us, 07:52 he's our great grandfather, all right, 07:54 the third term is to have authority over something, 07:58 like if we said, "The Head of the Company 08:00 is coming to our Department today" 08:03 okay, so he has authority over the Company, 08:05 so we have these three different concepts: 08:08 Source, Representative, and Authority. 08:11 So, the question, of course, we have is, 08:14 how does Paul use it in Ephesians 5? 08:17 But we mustn't be in too much of a rush 08:20 to find that, 08:22 we've got to look at how Paul uses it elsewhere, 08:25 and some of the best ways to look at that 08:28 is, "How does he use the term in the book of Ephesians, 08:32 that's our book, and how does he use the term 08:35 in the book of Colossians which is kind of a twin book 08:39 of Ephesians, you read the two books, 08:40 they have a lot in common with one another, 08:43 so we're going to read... 08:45 this is sort of inductive, we're going to start and say, 08:47 "Okay, so... what does this mean?" 08:49 So the first usage we're going to look, 08:51 and if people that are listening or watching, 08:53 have their Bibles, they can open with us 08:56 and follow along, Ephesians 1 verse 22, 09:01 Ephesians chapter 1 and verse 22. 09:04 We're talking about Jesus. 09:05 "And He, Jesus... " 09:07 I'm sorry, that's God... 09:08 and then... Jesus will be the subject... 09:10 Okay, "And He, God, put all things under His feet, 09:13 and gave Him, Christ, 09:15 to be head over all things to the church, 09:18 which is His body, 09:20 the fullness of Him who fills all in all. " 09:23 Okay, so He's the head over all things to the church, 09:28 now, does that sound to you like Source, 09:31 Representative or Authority over all? 09:34 You could almost use all three of these 09:36 but I would say, Authority. 09:38 Yeah, yeah, because He's the Head 09:40 over all things for the church, right? 09:43 Yes. 09:44 And so, it kind of has that sense that goes with it, 09:47 all right, let's go to the next usage which 09:49 is in Ephesians 4 verse 15. 09:52 Ephesians 4 and verse 15, 09:55 "but, speaking the truth in love, 09:59 may grow up in all things into Him 10:03 who is the head... Christ... " 10:05 So that would be the Source? 10:08 Ah, you might take it that way, 10:10 "rather, speaking the truth in love, 10:11 we may grow up into Him in every way 10:13 who is the head," now, if we keep reading, 10:18 keep reading in verse 16, 10:20 "From whom the whole body, joined and knit together 10:23 by whatever joint supplies 10:25 according to the effective working 10:26 by which every part does its share 10:28 causes growth of the body 10:30 for the edifying of itself in love. " 10:33 Hmmm... so that does have that sense of a source, 10:38 that the energy comes from Him, 10:40 but there's a relational kind of concept here, 10:42 it's the head and the body they're linked together 10:45 and it's from the whole, 10:47 from whom the whole body joined together, 10:50 so, "source," I think, is a good choice 10:52 in this particular case, 10:53 now, it's interesting... notice that Paul 10:55 doesn't use the word in the same way... each time. 10:57 Yvonne: Right. 10:59 Sometimes people get the idea, "he uses it this way, 11:01 he always has to use it this way 11:03 it's only used this way. " 11:05 Shelley: Okay. Tom: No... 11:07 You had me worried there for a minute, 11:09 I thought I was wrong when I said, "source," but... 11:11 It's okay to be wrong, when we study the Bible, 11:14 we shouldn't be saying like... 11:15 "You got to see it my way or the highway. " 11:17 Right, right... 11:19 So, we got to think together, all right, 11:20 now, let's turn... this is our passage... 11:22 Ephesians 5:23, 11:23 and this one you don't have to answer yet 11:25 because we'll think... but just read it. 11:27 I can guess what this one is, 11:30 "For the husband is head of the wife, 11:33 as also Christ is head of the church; 11:37 and He is... Christ... is the Savior of the body. " 11:40 Well, the husband is not the source of the wife 11:43 and we know that Christ is the ultimate authority, 11:46 so, he's not the "authority" of the wife, 11:49 but he is the "representative" in the family. 11:51 I think that "representative" is the right choice. 11:53 I would think so. 11:55 All right, let's just hang on to that thought 11:57 because this is text that we're really trying to figure out 11:59 so we won't jump on it too much first, 12:01 we'll kind of get the other ones 12:03 and then we'll come back here okay, 12:05 now, the next usage that we have is found in... 12:09 over in Colossians... 12:10 so there are three, we saw, in Galatians, 12:12 I'm sorry, in Ephesians, 12:14 and now there are three that we'll see in Colossians. 12:16 We'll turn to Colossians 1 verse 18, 12:19 and you'll start to see how these books are 12:21 verily similar to one another. 12:24 Colossians 1 and verse 18. 12:26 Talking about Christ now. 12:28 "And He, Christ, is the head of the body, 12:31 the church, who is the beginning. 12:33 the firstborn from the dead, that in all things 12:37 He may have the preeminence. " 12:39 Okay, what do you think about that one? 12:41 Which one does it suggest, "Source?" 12:43 Well, He's the beginning 12:44 so that would be the "Source," to me, the firstborn. 12:47 He is the Head, He is the beginning, 12:48 the firstborn from the dead, 12:50 and in everything he might have preeminence. 12:52 So that would make Him an Authority then. 12:54 Well, the Representative, preeminent, 12:57 He has foremost location, 12:58 and He's a Representative, so there might be 13:01 some of those ideas, 13:02 now, maybe sometimes you get some mix of ideas here, 13:05 always there's a "Leadership" idea... it seems like. 13:08 Turn to Colossians 2 verse 10. 13:10 Colossians chapter 2 and verse 10, 13:14 "And you are complete in Him, 13:17 who is the head of all principality and power. " 13:22 Okay, what does that sound like? 13:24 Well, I would think it's not "Source," definitely, 13:28 it's not Representative, it's Authority there. 13:31 Yeah, yeah, He's Head overall, 13:33 He's Head of all rule and authority 13:35 so He is above that. Shelley: He's Authority. 13:37 Yeah, this is part of... well Colossians has a big theme 13:43 about Christology and about who Christ is 13:45 and you don't add on to Him, 13:47 if you add on the Jesus you subtract from Him, 13:50 is kind of the message, 13:51 because He's the... 13:53 He's the primary one for us, 13:55 now, the last one there in Colossians 13:57 is in Colossians 2:19. 13:59 Okay, "and not holding fast to the Head, 14:03 being... Jesus... from whom all the body, 14:06 nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, 14:09 grows with the increase that is from God. " 14:13 Holding fast to the head, the source, 14:17 from whom... that would be "source?" 14:20 Tom: Yeah, very much "source. " Shelley: Okay. 14:22 So now, in some other cases 14:24 we might not always be able to nail it down particularly, 14:28 but probably, most often we can, 14:30 and here's the interesting thing, 14:32 we've looked at six different verses, 14:35 three in Ephesians, three in Colossians, 14:38 does he ever use the word to mean, "source?" 14:41 Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes. 14:43 Does he ever use the word to mean, "representative?" 14:45 Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes. 14:48 Does he ever use the word to mean, "authority?" 14:53 Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes. 14:54 Yeah, so, he uses the word all three ways. 14:57 Shelley: okay. 14:59 It comes out in all three ways, 15:00 so, there are phrases in the context 15:05 that actually help us to recognize 15:09 which of these meanings the Apostle has in mind. 15:12 And that's why it's so important 15:14 to always take things in context. 15:16 Yeah, when you come across a challenging text, 15:20 I don't call them "problem texts," 15:23 I ask my students sometimes I'll say, 15:27 "How many 'problem texts' are there in the Bible?" 15:28 Shelley: You always get it, don't you, the answer is zero. 15:32 Tom: The answer is zero. Shelley: Okay. 15:34 There are no "problem texts" in the Bible 15:35 because the Bible text, 15:37 the text in Scriptures is not the problem. 15:39 The problem is our understanding of it, right, 15:42 and so, but when you have a one 15:44 that you're really challenged to understand, 15:47 what you do is, you read the context 15:49 that's the words around it 15:50 and you look for relationships between the words 15:53 and here we notice 15:54 some of these relationships between the words. 15:56 Right, "from whom," definitely lets you know 15:59 that it's the "source. " 16:00 Yeah, yeah, when it says, "He is head over all things," 16:04 Ephesians 1 verse 22... Shelley: Authority? 16:06 Yeah, authority... rule and authority, 16:09 clearly that's the idea. 16:10 When it says that Christ is the Head of the Church, 16:14 it makes you think, 16:16 it might make you think of source, 16:17 but also... Shelley: It suggests authority? 16:20 Yeah, it suggests that 16:21 but then there's a relational authority 16:23 because it's the body. 16:25 Shelley: So "representative. " Tom: Yeah he represents the body 16:27 he's the Head... he would say, 16:29 we said, "He's the Head of the Church" 16:30 I think that one is the most difficult for me 16:33 because, like I said, "It could be all three. " 16:35 Yeah, it's a little bit, it's a little bit nuanced 16:37 in between there, but when we say, 16:39 "He is the Head from whom the body is nourished," 16:41 then we think of "source," yeah, everything comes from Him. 16:45 All right, so, now that brings us back, 16:49 that brings us back to Ephesians 5 verse 23 16:53 and with those three ideas in mind, 16:56 of Source, of Representative and of Authority over... 17:02 now we'll read verse... verse 20, 17:06 well, let's read 22 and 23. 17:09 And see, I jumped the gun a while ago, 17:10 but I still believe the same thing. 17:12 Ephesians chapter 5 and verse 22, it says, 17:16 "Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 17:20 For the husband is head of the wife, 17:22 as also Christ is head of the church: 17:25 and He Christ is the Savior of the body. " 17:28 So, here it says that the husband is head of the wife, 17:33 he's not the "source," 17:35 there's not "source" language in here, 17:37 it doesn't show that he is over her, 17:40 that doesn't show, like, an "authority," 17:42 so it would be a "representative" of the family, 17:45 he's the representative is how I would read it. 17:49 Yeah, and if you look at... 17:50 the husband is compared to Christ, 17:53 he isn't Christ, but he is compared to Christ 17:56 he says, "as Christ is head of the church: his body. " 18:00 So, that's the kind of relational concept 18:04 of representation and linkage that goes on here 18:07 and so, yeah, "representative" makes sense, 18:11 so, in that kind of a sense, what we would say is 18:14 that he is like, "Head of household," 18:16 he represents the household in the sense of 18:20 "one who represents them to other people 18:23 or to the world or in relationships. " 18:26 So the husband is not "head," in the Greco-Roman sense, 18:31 Paul has shifted from a Greco-Roman sense of 18:33 the "Pater familias," who had almost unlimited authority, 18:37 that would be "authority over," 18:38 Paul shifts it to more, perhaps, a relational idea 18:41 where the husband represents... but he's tied to the family. 18:45 And so, it's this priestly-type function in a way 18:50 that the husband is... I think of Job 18:54 and how he prayed for his family members 18:58 and this is something that there is that 19:01 I guess, responsibility and accountability to the Lord, 19:06 Tom: Yeah. Shelley: You agree? 19:08 Tom: Oh Yes, and we will see as we talk about... 19:11 we'll come, next time, to the discussion with husbands 19:13 and how they are to fill their role of Leadership 19:16 and it's not the kind of controlling thing 19:19 that sometimes, people get the idea of. 19:22 Here the paradigm for the husband is Christ. 19:25 Christ is the paradigm, 19:27 the Christian family cannot have a human representative 19:31 who is unlike Christ, who doesn't follow Christ's lead 19:36 so if he's acting in a way that's not like Christ, 19:39 he's not really acting like the head of the family. 19:42 And so, when we think about it, Christ is our advocate, 19:46 Christ is interceding for us all times 19:49 so, Christ is the lover of our souls 19:53 so the husband is to love and protect the family, 19:57 the wife and the children 19:59 just as Christ loves and protects the church. 20:02 Yes, yes, now notice that Jesus as 20:05 Head of the Church has a purpose, 20:08 and his purpose is to be the Savior of the body, 20:12 now, Paul intermingles here talking about the Christian home 20:17 and we'll see it more and more as we go on in this passage 20:21 when we specially get to the section on the husbands, 20:24 it's almost as though he forgets talking about the home 20:27 and starts talking about Ecclesiology, 20:28 that is, the doctrine of the church 20:30 and here he describes Christ as the Savior of the body. 20:36 Christ is the Savior of the Church. 20:39 But we should notice the distinction 20:42 between Jesus and the husband. 20:45 The husband is never called the savior of the wife. 20:49 Shelley: Right. 20:50 There's one Savior. and that Savior is Jesus, 20:53 okay, so the husband is never called the Savior 20:56 nor is the wife called the husband's body 21:00 as Christ, the Church is Christ's body 21:03 but the wife is not the husband's body, 21:07 so there is... there's a distinction between 21:09 there are limits to the identification 21:12 or parallel with Jesus. 21:13 The husband is not Jesus. Shelley: Amen. 21:18 And again, you know, when things are done 21:23 in the order that God created 21:25 and in the manner in which he has put into practice here, 21:30 it makes all of these relational positions very easy to follow, 21:36 it's easy to be submissive again to someone who... 21:39 to a husband who is doing things in God's way. 21:42 Yeah, he... like I said before, he takes and he turns things, 21:48 he changes things, he changes the power structures, 21:51 and really... puts everything in relationship to Christ. 21:55 So, you might think that in the Greco-Roman world 21:59 there was the husband, who was here on top, 22:01 and everybody was below him, 22:03 now, the husband is brought 22:06 into... He has a relationship with Christ 22:08 but so do all the members of the family. 22:10 They also have a relationship with Christ. 22:12 Shelley: They're all co-heirs. 22:13 Yeah, as long as the husband does what he's supposed to do, 22:16 that's fine, but when he steps away from that 22:20 when he becomes abusive, when he becomes controlling, 22:22 then the other members of the family 22:25 cannot follow his lead. Shelley: Yes. 22:28 They cannot follow in that kind of a pattern 22:31 and as Peter said to the religious leaders, 22:33 we must obey God rather than men. 22:36 Shelley: Yes. 22:37 Yeah, so now that brings us back to verse 24, 22:40 This is Ephesians chapter 5 verse 24, 22:45 "Therefore just as the church is subject to Christ, 22:48 so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. " 22:53 Now how does yours read in the... 22:55 Well, mine says, "Now as the church submits to Christ, 22:58 so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. " 23:01 Shelley: Okay. 23:03 But actually this word now, what does yours say? 23:06 Mine says, "Therefore. " 23:07 "Therefore," actually there's a word there 23:10 that can be translated to do that, "But... " 23:11 Shelley: Okay. 23:13 So it kind of presents a contrast, 23:16 we could translate it this way, 23:18 "But just as the church is subject to Christ, 23:21 so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. " 23:26 The "But" suggests a contrast, it may be included to suggest 23:31 that the husband is not exactly like Christ 23:35 as we already noted, 23:37 the husband is not the Savior of the wife, 23:39 he's not the... he's the head but she's not the body, 23:42 so Paul reiterates his call for submission 23:45 and describes its extent in verse 24, 23:49 he says, "in everything. " 23:50 Now, "everything" means everything but... 23:55 it doesn't mean everything, in the sense that 23:59 if a husband steps away from the line 24:02 from which God has asked him to be a Leader 24:05 and starts doing things that are out of line, 24:08 with what God calls, you're not to submit to that. 24:10 You're not to submit to that which is abusive, 24:13 you're not to submit to that which goes against Scripture, 24:15 because everybody in the family, 24:18 has an individual and personal relationship with God. 24:22 God is the Supreme Head, there is one Head of the Church, 24:25 and that Head is Christ. 24:26 And you know, in my way of thinking, 24:29 and tell me if you think I'm right, 24:32 there are so many Scriptures in the New Testament, 24:34 that imply "equality," that, 24:40 I think that God made the husband, "head," 24:44 as representative and also... 24:47 I look at it as he's a "Tie-breaker," 24:49 in other words when you think about Christ, 24:51 Christ doesn't control us, 24:53 the husband isn't to control the wife, 24:55 but there is that "Leadership," in our home, 24:59 there are decisions that I make that my husband allows, 25:03 you know, he has no interest in it, 25:04 he could care less, 25:06 there are decisions that he makes that I don't care about, 25:09 when there is a decision that we both have input on, 25:11 we will sit down and discuss it, and reason it, 25:14 now, if we got to that place where there's an impasse, 25:19 then, I would submit, finally, if he were to say... 25:23 I mean, we would sit and reason it, 25:24 but it's not, you know, and I would submit to say, 25:27 "Okay, you're the head of the house, 25:29 it's on you buddy," no... 25:32 No, what I'm saying is that, 25:34 I think I said this on an earlier Program, 25:38 "Any animal that has two heads is a freak," 25:41 and so in a marriage, if there are two heads, 25:44 it's not... God did this for some practical reasons. 25:47 Yeah, I agree with you that you reason things together, 25:50 you think things through, 25:52 you pray about it together, you talk about it together, 25:54 and actually if the husband is trying to do 25:57 what blesses the wife, 25:58 and the wife is trying to do what blesses the husband, 26:01 it's not hard, they come to some conclusion. 26:04 I like the idea of a tie-breaker like a decision maker 26:07 but if you're making decisions to bless the other people, 26:10 it's not hard to submit to that. 26:12 One of the texts that you were kind of referring to about 26:15 equality is in Galatians 3:27 and 28, 26:20 "For as of you as were baptized into Christ 26:22 and have put on Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, 26:24 there is neither slave nor free, there is no male nor female: 26:28 for you are all one in Christ Jesus. " 26:30 Shelley: Right. Tom: So, we're all one in Christ 26:33 it's very interesting that the same person who can write 26:36 Ephesians 5, is the same person who wrote Galatians 3 26:39 and we have to put the two together. 26:42 I'm always kind of disappointed 26:44 when people who take one side or another, 26:46 in some of these questions about male and female relationships 26:50 when they want to just focus on one passage 26:52 and they don't want to read all of them. 26:54 We have to read all of them 26:55 and Paul is saying that we're all equal, 26:58 but while we're all equal, 27:00 there are also different roles that we have. 27:01 He doesn't do away with our equality 27:04 or the importance of sharing... caring for one another 27:08 and being respectful of each other. 27:10 Amen... and I just... 27:12 I'm very excited about this entire series 27:15 and I can't wait to hear... 27:17 I know that J.D. is going to be... 27:18 We're going to be talking about 27:20 what God has to say to husbands. 27:21 J.D. is going to be co-hosting with you for the next few 27:23 to talk about what God has to say to husbands 27:26 and once again, Tom, the time has just flown 27:28 but that shows me how interesting it is 27:30 and I just thank you so much for being here 27:32 and thank you for bringing your 27:35 studies to us on this topic. Tom: Hmmm... hmmm... 27:41 For those of you at home, 27:42 I hope that you are having a wonderful time 27:45 listening to this and learning from it 27:47 and applying it to your life 27:49 because God has a plan for every life, 27:52 and He has the perfect pattern as well 27:55 and when it is followed, 27:57 you can count on many, many blessings. 27:59 Now, our prayer for you is that God will multiply His mercy, 28:04 His love and His grace to you. |
Revised 2016-03-29