Participants: Senez Rodriguez (Host), Tom Shepherd
Series Code: HPOV
Program Code: HPOV000034A
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00:16 Welcome to Heaven's Point of View.
00:19 My name is Dr. Senez Rodriguez and we are discussing 00:22 with Dr. Shepherd from the university seminary 00:28 as a professor of New Testament Interpretation, 00:32 on the topic of love, marriage, sex and divorce 00:35 according to the New Testament. 00:38 So that is our topic for today. 00:40 Now, Dr. Shepherd, last time you talked a great deal 00:44 about the problem of premarital sex 00:47 and pornography here in the United States. 00:51 How do you see 1 Corinthians 6 addressing these issues? 00:55 Okay, last time we noticed that there have been big shifts 01:01 in the United States over the last 50 years 01:04 with increasing levels of premarital sex of-- 01:09 we have now unmarried people living together 01:13 quite openly actually and the increase in pornography 01:17 especially through the internet. 01:19 And these characteristics of shifting sexual mores 01:24 has a rather interesting parallel 01:28 to what was going on in ancient Corinth. 01:31 And we looked at the Corinthian church 01:33 and its establishment by Paul, it was set up by Paul. 01:37 And how the church had so many problems going on within it 01:43 including such thing as all kinds of disputes 01:48 or misunderstandings about doctrinal issues. 01:51 But then there were also issues of practice 01:55 where they had somebody living with his father's wife, 02:00 they had, so they had incest, 02:02 they had probably people going to prostitutes. 02:06 They had some people who were probably saying 02:08 that sex was something 02:10 that you shouldn't even do in marriage. 02:12 And just all kinds of disputes and problems, 02:16 people taking others to court and really, really sick church. 02:21 So Paul has in correspondence with this church. 02:24 And 1 Corinthians 6 02:26 is a very interesting transition point 02:28 in the Book of 1 Corinthians. 02:31 Commentators dispute exactly what's going on in this chapter 02:35 as we will see particularly at the end of the chapter. 02:39 But if we start at the beginning of the chapter, 02:41 the first eight verses 02:44 are about the subject of lawsuits between believers. 02:47 And Paul is just appalled by the idea 02:52 that they would take one another to court 02:55 and he says and that before the unbelievers. 02:57 So they're exposing the church to shame by, 03:03 you know, going to a law court 03:05 where one brother can't get along with another 03:08 and he describes the situation, the lawsuits that are going on 03:11 and he says, "Don't you have some people who can, 03:15 you know, take care of disputes within the church 03:17 without having to go to people outside the church. 03:21 Then he comes in verses 9 to 11, 03:24 he talks about 03:25 "the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God." 03:29 And he goes into a list, we call it a vice list 03:33 where he list off a groups of people 03:36 that will not be in God's kingdom, 03:38 he says, "the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, 03:42 men who practice homosexuality, thieves, the greedy, 03:46 the drunkards, revilers, the swindlers." 03:49 He says, "They will not inherit the kingdom of God." 03:51 And he says, "Some of you were like that. 03:55 But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified 03:58 in the name of Lord Jesus Christ 03:59 and by the Spirit of our God." 04:01 That's the first section. 04:03 The first two sections, the lawsuit 04:05 and then this whole thing about the unrighteous and reminders 04:09 that you have to be faithful to God 04:12 in order to be in His kingdom. 04:14 Some people want to give the idea 04:16 that it doesn't matter what you do in your life, 04:18 God will save everybody, we call that universalism. 04:21 Well, it's certainly not a biblical idea. 04:24 It's certainly not here in Paul's writings. 04:27 In verses 12 to 20, 04:29 Paul comes to the question of sexual ethics. 04:32 Now the major issues about this passage 04:35 that we're going to spend several times, 04:37 several programs looking at of 1 Corinthians 6:12-20. 04:44 The major issues revolve around 04:45 whether Paul is attacking Corinthian slogans. 04:50 And, you know, describing those 04:52 or whether he is expressing his own statements 04:56 and just adding fine touches to his teaching 05:00 for the Corinthian believers. 05:02 So we're gonna look-- 05:03 We're gonna be Bible detectives today. 05:05 Okay. 05:07 We're gonna look for clues to try to understand 05:10 just what he is saying. 05:13 But we can easily see that either way 1 Corinthians 6, 05:17 1 Corinthians 7 deal with sexual ethics 05:20 which is the topic we're now in our program discussing. 05:25 This passage, 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 05:30 comes at a crucial point in the Book of Corinthians. 05:34 Paul is shifting his discussion from matters 05:38 that were brought to his attention 05:40 by oral reports 05:42 that came to him to discussing matters 05:46 that he got a letter from them about. 05:49 So he'd gotten oral reports about problems in the church 05:52 and he talks about some of those. 05:54 But in Chapter 7:1, he will say, 05:57 "Now concerning the matters about which you wrote." 06:01 So this Chapter 6:12-20 06:07 is at the transition point. 06:10 And has a, you know, 06:13 kind of this important transitional role 06:16 that it plays. 06:17 It actually is filled with theology, 06:22 this little section about sexual ethics. 06:25 You think that perhaps on sexual ethics, 06:27 Paul would just say, "Don't do that." 06:30 You know, "Don't do this immoral behavior." 06:33 Do this, don't do that. 06:35 But actually he fills the whole thing 06:37 with a lot of theological themes. 06:42 He-- In fact the theological themes 06:45 look back to earlier portions of the book 06:48 and they look forward to later parts of the book. 06:51 So it's very transitional, 06:53 it's very tight to other aspects of the book. 06:57 It recaps the ideas and it rings the bells 07:01 that he will sound later in the book. 07:04 For instance, the word, the concept of food 07:07 for some reason comes up in this passage 07:09 we'll look at that, but it reappears in Chapter 8. 07:14 Members of the body of Christ appears here. 07:18 He calls them you were members of Christ body 07:21 that will reappear in Chapter 12. 07:24 He talks about the Holy Spirit 07:25 that will reappear in Chapter 12 and 14. 07:28 He talks about the resurrection 07:30 that will reappear in Chapter 15. 07:32 He talks about eschatology that we'll talk, 07:36 it'll reappear in verses 13 to 15. 07:37 So he has some that goes back earlier in the book 07:41 and he looks also forward. 07:42 So we shouldn't be surprised actually 07:45 that 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 07:48 contains multiple strands of very profound theology 07:55 that's applied dynamically 07:57 to one of the most pressing problems of Paul's church. 08:01 The parallels of the Corinthian culture 08:03 and the situation to our day are actually very striking. 08:08 And so this passage so filled with power, 08:11 this is actually my favorite passage to talk about 08:13 when I teach the class on love, marriage, 08:16 sex, and divorce at the seminary. 08:18 And it is so filled with power, I'm just overwhelmed 08:23 with how much Paul has put in here 08:25 and the way that he's drawn together 08:27 the different lines of theology 08:30 to address a particular problem. 08:33 So we should read the passage, 1 Corinthians 6:12-20. 08:38 Why don't you read that for us? 08:40 "All things are lawful onto me, 08:43 but all things are not expedient. 08:46 All things are lawful for me, 08:49 but I will not be brought under the power of any. 08:54 Midst for the belly and the belly for midst 08:58 but God shall destroy both it and then. 09:03 Now the body is not for fornication 09:07 but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 09:12 And God had both raised up the Lord 09:15 and will also raise up us by His own power. 09:21 Now ye know that your bodies are the members of Christ? 09:26 Shall I then take the members of Christ 09:28 and make them the members of an harlot? 09:32 God forbid. What? 09:35 Now ye know that he which is joined 09:39 to an harlot is one body. 09:43 For two, said he, 'shall be one flesh.' 09:47 But he that is joined on to the Lord is one spirit. 09:53 Flee fornication. 09:55 Every sin that a man does is without the body, 10:00 but he that committed fornication 10:03 sinned against his own body. 10:06 What? 10:08 Now ye know that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost 10:13 which is in you, which ye have of God, 10:18 and ye are not your own. 10:20 For ye were bought with a price, 10:24 therefore glorify God in your body 10:27 and in your spirit, which are God's." 10:32 It's a beautiful little passage. 10:33 Beautiful, interesting 10:34 and sometimes problematic for some people. 10:36 It's true I think you were telling me 10:39 about on email that you've gotten on this topic. 10:41 Yes, they were someone 10:43 who wrote on electronic communication 10:46 discussing the issue of the law and addressing this passage 10:51 as suggesting that, you know, everything is lawful to me, 10:56 you know, there was no problem with, 10:58 there is no law in other words. 11:00 It is up to me to choose what is good 11:03 or what is not good. 11:05 Very interesting interpretation. 11:07 Sure. 11:08 And that's part of this passage 11:10 that confounds people as they look at this 11:13 and they try to scratch their heads. 11:14 Now for those of us who believe in God's law, 11:20 we might be a little worried about this passage in saying, 11:24 wait a minute what does Paul mean, 11:25 all things are lawful for me? 11:27 For those who think that the laws done away with, 11:31 they look at this passage say 11:32 exactly that's what Paul is trying to tell us 11:34 that the law has been done away with, okay. 11:36 So they look at that. 11:38 But when we take a look at the passage 11:41 a little more carefully kind of trying to understand 11:45 Paul's argument in his reasoning. 11:49 The passage we could divide 11:51 and we will in this series of discussions, 11:54 divide the passage in kind of two parts topically in a way. 12:00 The other session we'll spend a lot of time 12:03 looking at these phrases when Paul says, 12:05 three different times it says, 12:06 "Don't you know, do you not know." 12:09 That phrase in Paul's writings 12:12 typically refers to Christian teaching 12:16 that everybody should know 12:17 or just some truth that everybody should, 12:20 you know, just take for granted. 12:22 So he's gonna be referring to Christian teachings, 12:24 you know, but before we get that to that point, 12:27 we have to look at his, 12:28 particularly his argument of verses 12 to 14. 12:32 We'll also look down at verse 18 12:34 because there's an interesting thing there. 12:36 Now if we look at these passages, 12:40 if we say, he starts off, let's start with verse 12. 12:43 He says, "All things are lawful for me, 12:47 but not all things are helpful." 12:49 So what does that last part suggest, 12:52 the last part of that phrase, 12:54 but not all things are helpful to me. 12:57 Does that mean that 12:59 what he said at first is true 13:04 or is it is he modifying it or did you-- 13:08 what do you think about that. 13:09 "All things are lawful for me." 13:12 As if everybody can do whatever they want, 13:14 but I don't think that he is. 13:16 In other words, you are responsible 13:18 for your own choices. 13:19 So if you decide to do what you know 13:23 or should know that it is not correct. 13:26 Well, you are responsible for that. 13:27 Okay, so you could do it, you could do it 13:30 but it might not help you. 13:32 Exactly. Yeah. 13:33 And then that the second part he says, 13:35 "All things are lawful for me, 13:36 but I will not be enslaved by anything." 13:39 So, you know, again-- 13:41 It sounds like a contradiction. 13:43 It does sound a bit like a contradiction. 13:45 So if it's lawful, 13:47 if it's all things are lawful then you are free. 13:51 But then he turns around and says, 13:53 but I won't be enslaved by anything. 13:56 So are you free? Are you not free? 14:00 Is he talking about freedom? 14:03 That's not where the problems end 14:05 when you're trying to figure this thing out. 14:07 If you go to verse 13 he says, "Food is meant for the stomach 14:13 and the stomach for food." 14:16 All right, your says meat I think. 14:17 The word here as I recall is bro'-mah 14:20 in which is a general word for food in Greek, all right. 14:23 So what kind of an idea does that suggested, 14:26 "food for the stomach and the stomach for food." 14:29 Is as if you could eat whatever you want doesn't matter, 14:34 but it's like a proverb that they used to talk about. 14:38 Yeah, it sounds like some kind of a proverb 14:41 and if you said, "Food is meant for the stomach 14:45 and the stomach is meant for food," 14:47 it's almost as though there is some kind of a design 14:53 that the two fit together, I mean it's like 14:55 people will say, why do you have hands? 14:57 Hands are for shaking. Right. 15:00 Why do you have ears? Ears are for hearing. 15:02 Why do you have a stomach? 15:03 Well, stomach is for food, all right? 15:05 So it's an argument from design, all right. 15:10 But then you say, okay, 15:12 there's an argument from design, that's interesting 15:14 and why he would bring food up here 15:17 that seems so little odd maybe. 15:19 But then he says, "And God will destroy 15:22 both one and the other." 15:26 Well, if its food is for the stomach, 15:29 and if it's gonna destroy it, 15:32 why does Paul mention being destroying it, see. 15:36 Now it even gets worse 15:39 as you go into the rest of verse 13, 15:41 he says, "The body is not meant for sexual immorality 15:45 but for the Lord and the Lord for the body." 15:47 He said, wait a minute. 15:49 I thought we were talking about food. 15:51 Now suddenly he is talking about sex. 15:54 Why does he, why did he do that. 15:56 And if you notice at beginning verse 13, 15:59 "the food for the stomach 16:01 or the stomach is designed for food." 16:03 But then he says, 16:05 "The body is not meant for sexual immorality." 16:07 But for the Lord just like 16:09 the body is designed for the Lord. 16:12 And so that seems to go against what he just said almost, 16:18 it's very strange. 16:19 And then verse 14 he says, "And God raised the Lord 16:23 and will also raise up us up by his power." 16:28 Resurrection. 16:29 Now Paul, why are you talking about the resurrection? 16:36 Why are you bringing that up? 16:38 It seems to have nothing to do with what he just talked about. 16:42 If you go down to verse 18, read verse 18 again. 16:46 Verse 18 says, "Flee fornication. 16:52 Every sin that a man does is without the body, 16:57 but he that committed fornication 17:00 sinned against his own body." 17:03 All right, so it starts off and it says, 17:05 "Every sin that a man commits is outside of his body." 17:12 Right. 17:13 Now my translation actually says, 17:15 "Every other sin a man commits or person commits 17:19 is outside the body." 17:21 But actually the word other is being supplied by translator 17:26 because in Greek there is no word other, 17:28 it's not there. 17:30 So your translation presents it correctly, 17:33 "Every sin that a man commits is outside the body." 17:36 But then he says, 17:38 "But the sexually immoral person 17:40 sins against his own body." 17:42 Now wait a minute, Paul? You can't have it both ways. 17:46 If the sin is outside the body, 17:49 how can sexual sin be against the body? 17:52 So that's why some people want to use the word other there 17:56 and then they'll say, 17:57 well, every other sin is against the body. 18:01 But the sin, sexual sin that's worse because it, 18:06 you know, the others are outside the body, 18:08 but sexual sin is against the body. 18:12 And this raises a question that people will raise 18:14 when they'll say the questions like well, wait a minute. 18:18 What about alcoholism? What about drug addiction? 18:20 Well, I mean, back in the ancient world 18:22 the alcohol and drinking of alcohol. 18:23 What about alcoholism? 18:25 Isn't that a sin against the body? 18:27 Is that really less of an addiction 18:29 than sexual addiction? 18:31 Is that worse for you? Is that less bad for you? 18:35 Then promiscuity has nothing to do with you, 18:38 it doesn't affect you. 18:40 So these kinds of questions, 18:42 you know, have really got people 18:44 scratching their heads about this passage. 18:47 And it has led, it has led a number of scholars 18:54 now actually the majority of scholars 18:56 to think that there's something else going on here. 18:58 Because this additives are confusing 19:01 to some people right people, like you know. 19:02 Yeah, they don't-- 19:04 it doesn't seem to make sense of what's going on. 19:06 Now the interesting thing 19:09 as the people have suggested that the-- 19:12 what Paul is doing as he's quoting slogans 19:15 of the Corinthians. 19:17 He's quoting slogans of the Corinthians 19:19 and then responding to them. 19:22 Quoting them and then responding to them. 19:24 Of course the problem is knowing where the quotes are. 19:31 How do you know, you know, 19:34 that Paul was actually quoting those slogans? 19:36 How do you explain them? 19:38 That's part of the problem because in the ancient text 19:41 there were no quotation marks, 19:44 in fact there were no chapter divisions, verse divisions, 19:47 there were even no divisions between words. 19:50 There were just a line of capital letters 19:53 that went through it. 19:54 So it really becomes an issue of interpretation to do this. 19:59 So somebody might say, oh, that sounds rather squishy, 20:03 that sounds like, you know, 20:05 make it say whatever you wanted to say. 20:07 No, it depends on the logic of Paul's presentation, 20:11 he was very logical in his presentation. 20:15 So that we noticed, 20:16 we were kind of following the pattern of saying. 20:19 Well, what about those who take the position 20:21 that this was about libertinism he is saying. 20:24 These are Paul's word all things are lawful 20:26 and food for the stomach, stomach for food 20:29 and every sin is outside the body. 20:31 When you take those to be Paul's words 20:34 the problem is that the, the text doesn't make sense. 20:39 There is no logic to it. 20:41 And you can't assume that Paul was illogical, 20:44 you have to start from the concept 20:45 that the writer knows what he's doing is logically. 20:49 When you take these as quotations 20:52 from the Corinthians, 20:54 suddenly everything falls into place, 20:58 it's incredible. 20:59 So that's how we should then interpret that passage. 21:02 Yes, let me explain how this works. 21:05 Now we have a little, we have a little table to show 21:10 that kind of illustrates this 21:11 and I put a number of words they kind of summarizes it 21:14 and you'll be able to see that on the screen. 21:16 But let me just walk through this talking 21:17 about these different verses, okay. 21:19 In verse 12 he says, "All things are lawful for me." 21:22 That's actually the Corinthian statement. 21:27 Then Paul responds "But not all things are helpful." 21:31 "All things are lawful for me," says the Corinthian. 21:34 "But I will not be enslaved by anything." 21:37 Now how does that work, okay? 21:39 Usually we think of Paul being little bit more forceful, 21:43 you know, he's not gonna say, yes, 21:45 but not everything is helpful. 21:47 You expect him to be more forceful 21:49 except that he had a problem with a Corinthian church, 21:53 they didn't get along too well. 21:55 So you can't just tell them, you have to persuade them. 21:59 So what better way to persuade them 22:01 than to start with their own argument. 22:03 You know, if your take their premise 22:05 and you show that it doesn't work, 22:06 then you've proved them wrong to their own satisfaction. 22:10 Right, so, "All things are lawful for me." 22:12 He says, okay, okay, 22:13 let's just go down that street for a while, 22:15 that libertine street that you have. 22:17 That but certainly not all things are helpful. 22:21 Okay, they might say, okay. 22:22 "All things are lawful for me" but he said, 22:24 "but I will not be enslaved by anything." 22:27 You see a libertine kind of a lifestyle 22:29 leads to the most abject slavery. 22:32 That's right. 22:33 A libertine lifestyle leads to the most abject slavery. 22:35 There's old saying in Chinese, a man takes a drink, 22:41 a drink takes a drink, a drink takes a man. 22:44 It comes to control him. All right, we got to press on. 22:48 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food" 22:51 and the continuation of the quote, 22:52 "and God will destroy them both." 22:54 Okay, now if you look at the little chart you'll see, 22:57 "All things are lawful for me was a libertine perspective." 23:00 Paul says, "I'm not gonna be enslaved by that." 23:03 His theology is a theology of liberation 23:05 not of libertinism. 23:07 All right. 23:08 Then they say, "The stomach for food 23:09 and food for the stomach." 23:11 That's an argument from design. 23:13 They're arguing 23:15 that the stomach is designed for food 23:18 and actually this is euphemism. 23:19 They're saying, sexual organs are designed for sex. 23:23 You should use it for sex. Paul says, "Wait a minute. 23:25 Now the Lord, the body is made for the Lord, 23:28 the Lord is for the body and the body for the Lord." 23:31 So he counters each of their arguments 23:34 and that's how we recognized 23:35 that what's going on is that he's quoting them 23:38 and then he's responding to their arguments. 23:40 His teleology, his argument from design 23:42 is not hedonistically theirs, 23:45 they say it was designed for pleasure. 23:47 Paul says, "No, it was designed for the Lord." 23:50 It was designed for sanctification. 23:53 They say, this is still part of their quote probably, 23:56 "God will destroy both one and the other, 23:58 so they have an eschatology. 24:00 But it's an eschatology of destruction, 24:02 God's gonna destroy all these things." 24:04 Paul says, "Waite a minute. 24:06 God raised up the Lord, he raised up the Lord Jesus 24:09 and He will raise us up as well." 24:11 So that's an eschatology of resurrection. 24:14 This is why he talks about the resurrection, 24:17 he is countering their argument. 24:19 They say like, well, it's all gonna be destroyed anyway, 24:21 so it doesn't matter what you do with it. 24:23 And Paul says, "No, it does matter 24:25 what you do with it." 24:26 Because your body is going to be raised in the last day. 24:29 See he's a holistic view of anthropology 24:33 of the human being. 24:34 So he says, "It will be raised up, 24:36 so it does matter what you do." 24:38 I tell the students this in class 24:39 kind of blows them away. 24:41 That the resurrection is one of the great reasons 24:42 for not being involved in promiscuity. 24:45 Why? 24:46 Because the resurrection 24:48 is what's gonna happen to your body, 24:49 what you do with it now has an affect. 24:51 You see and you mustn't do with that now 24:52 because it will be raised up in the last day, okay. 24:55 Now the other thing is down in verse 18 where they say, 24:59 "every sin is the man commits is outside the body." 25:02 That's their slogan, okay. 25:05 So that's a harmatology and wonderful word 25:07 meaning a doctrine of sin, a harmatology of dualism. 25:12 Really doesn't matter what you do with the body 25:15 because God's gonna, you know, do away with that. 25:17 And so your actions don't really affect your soul. 25:24 You can go sleep around and that's okay 25:27 because it doesn't really affect your soul. 25:29 The body and the soul are separated 25:31 and the soul is eternal but the body will pass away. 25:35 Paul says, "Sexual sin is against the body." 25:39 So he links back into his anthropology of wholism 25:43 that you don't have a soul, you are a soul 25:46 which we talk about is the state of the, 25:48 state of the dead, right. 25:50 But it has characteristics that link into our life, okay. 25:54 So tit for tat you could say Paul response to their, 25:59 you know, their take on the meaning of life, 26:02 they have this little slogans that they use, 26:05 I can do whatever I want. 26:07 My body is designed for pleasure 26:09 I should use it for that 26:10 and it doesn't matter what I do with it 26:12 because the sin doesn't affect my soul. 26:14 So Paul was patiently educating the church between that 26:19 to see the difference between the life they had 26:22 and the life that they are expected to have 26:24 when they accept Jesus Christ. 26:26 Right, when you look it back at Chapter 6, the beginning, 26:28 from beginning from Chapter 6, you know, 26:30 he's made these kind of well, in 6 don't go in lawsuits 26:34 but then you know this whole vice list 26:36 where you cannot do this 26:37 because that's not gonna be in the Kingdom of God. 26:41 So he starts to bring together 26:43 a whole series of theological arguments 26:46 to counter these false teachings. 26:48 And what we've seen in this one is 26:51 he has a theology of liberation, 26:54 countered, you know, 26:56 countered to their theology of libertinism. 27:00 He has a teleology of sanctification 27:02 countered to their teleology of hedonism. 27:05 He has an eschatology of resurrection 27:08 countered to their eschatology of destruction. 27:10 He has a harmatology of wholism and anthropology of wholism 27:14 countered to their anthropology of dualism. 27:16 Dualism. 27:18 So back and forth he goes, helping these people to see 27:22 that what they were doing 27:24 was so destructive of Christian life, 27:26 so totally out of step. 27:28 And this helps to give an answer to the person 27:30 who wrote to you within-- 27:32 with a conviction that it was okay to do, 27:36 you know, whatever they want. 27:37 No, that's not what Paul is teaching. 27:40 Yeah. 27:41 Well, my friends, 27:42 these has been a pleasure to have Dr. Shepherd with us. 27:46 Time is very rapidly running out, 27:50 but we thank you for paying attention to this series. 27:54 And we invite you to continue discussing 27:58 and looking at these interesting presentations 28:02 that are going to be so helpful to you and to all us. 28:07 Thank you. |
Revised 2018-08-24