Participants: Senez Rodriguez (Host), Tom Shepherd
Series Code: HPOV
Program Code: HPOV000047A
00:16 Welcome to Heaven's Point of View.
00:18 Again, my name is Dr. Senez Rodriguez 00:21 and we have our Special Guest and Host, Dr. Tom Sheperd, 00:26 Professor of New Testament Interpretation 00:28 at Andrews University. 00:30 We have been discussing different topics 00:33 on the series of "Love, Marriage, Sex, and Divorce" 00:37 according to the New Testament. 00:38 Now, Dr. Sheperd, last time, 00:41 we saw how Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus 00:46 on the questions of divorce. 00:47 Yes, that's right, we saw that 1st Corinthians 7 00:50 verses 10 and 11 parallels Mark chapter 10 00:54 where Jesus talks about the permanence in marriage, 00:57 "What God has joined together, people should not separate. " 01:01 We noticed that this is the reason why Paul says, 01:04 "The Lord, not I... " in describing the teaching. 01:07 We also saw that Paul describes the situation 01:11 where the permanence and joy seemingly had deteriorated 01:14 because it says... it speaks of a woman who 01:17 separates possibly from her husband 01:19 "but even if she separates," he says... 01:21 the surprise might be that Paul says 01:23 that she should stay single 01:25 or be reconciled to her husband and then he adds 01:27 that the husband should not divorce his wife. 01:30 We notice, actually, 01:31 that this parallels the words of Jesus 01:34 when he said that divorce, 01:35 for any other reason than adultery, 01:37 plus remarriage equals adultery, 01:39 the separation itself was not counted by Jesus 01:42 as adultery... nor by Paul. 01:45 So it sounds like Paul actually echoes 01:47 the teaching of Jesus here. 01:51 Yeah, pretty much, and that's the important phrase, 01:54 "pretty much," because Paul goes further 01:57 in verses 12 to 16 01:59 and we want to look at those verses now. 02:01 Okay, so we want to open to 1st Corinthians 7 02:04 verses 12 to 16. 03:14 Hmmm... hmmm... okay, thank you for reading that passage. 03:17 So, we've noticed before that... 03:22 why Paul says, "Not the Lord, but I." 03:26 Hmmm... hmmm... 03:27 And that is that... in this particular situation 03:29 that Paul describes, 03:31 he didn't have the saying of Jesus. 03:34 So he's not talking about levels of inspiration... 03:37 they're both inspired statements 03:39 one... the inspired words of Jesus, 03:41 the other, the Apostle Paul... led by the Holy Spirit. 03:44 But, we're actually talking about a situation 03:48 which Jesus had not described. 03:51 It's a situation where 03:53 a believer is married to an unbeliever... 03:56 when you read the words of Jesus back in the gospels, 04:00 He is describing a situation of believers. 04:03 So, when Paul says also, "to the rest... " 04:06 he's talking about others in the Christian community 04:10 not covered by the previous verses, 04:12 we saw that in verses 10 and 11, he was talking about 04:15 people who are believers... both believers... 04:18 and how they were married to each other. 04:21 But here he's talking about somebody else 04:24 and the question would be, of course, "Who?" 04:27 Paul describes both the case of a brother 04:30 which, of course, means... a Christian... 04:33 who has an unbelieving wife and on the other hand, 04:37 he talks about a Sister... a Christian woman... 04:40 who has an unbelieving husband. 04:43 So, this is where Paul has a new situation that he's describing. 04:50 Now, why do you think that 04:53 a believer be married to an unbeliever? 04:56 Doesn't Paul, himself, advise against that? 04:58 He actually does, very much, 05:00 over in 2nd Corinthians 6 verse 14, 05:04 we should take a look at that, just flip over there real quick 05:07 to 2nd Corinthians 6 and verse 14, 05:13 he says, "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers: 05:16 for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? 05:19 and what fellowship has light with darkness?" 05:21 In fact, he is using the exact same term, which is, "apistois" 05:30 which means "unbeliever" 05:32 that he used over in 1st Corinthians 7 05:36 verses 12 to 16, it seems completely incongruous 05:41 that he would here say... "Don't be unequally yoked" 05:45 when you think of yoking... 05:46 you think of the "marriage thing" 05:48 which Jesus says, "What God has yoked together... 05:50 what God has joined together... " 05:51 over here he talks about, 05:53 "if you're married to this unbeliever... " 05:57 It doesn't make any sense except for one fact 06:00 and that is, Paul is talking to those 06:03 who are already married, 06:05 so in verses 10 and 11, he speaks to those who are 06:10 husband and wife that are Christians 06:12 and for them, he says, 06:14 "you should not divorce and if you separate, 06:17 you should seek reconciliation or stay single, 06:19 a change of heart is what you need 06:22 rather than a change of partners 06:23 a change of spouse... " 06:26 but he says, he starts in verse 12 06:28 "To the rest... " and that addresses... 06:30 suggests that these people are different 06:33 from those in verses 10 and 11, "To the rest... " 06:36 Different in what way? 06:38 Well, they are still a group of married people, 06:41 since he speaks of married relationships, 06:44 the way they are different is 06:46 that one of the partners in the marriage is a believer 06:49 and the other partner is an unbeliever. 06:52 And we say, "Well, how did that happen 06:54 in light of Paul's strong counsel 06:57 not to link up with unbelievers?" 06:59 Well, it happened because the person was already married 07:03 before they became a believer, 07:05 they were converted after... 07:09 after they were already married 07:12 and so then... but only one of them became a believer, 07:15 not the other one and so what you have is 07:17 a situation where one believes and the other doesn't 07:20 and that's the situation that he describes. 07:22 So, this really leads me to a question I want to ask you, 07:26 you're a Clinical Psychologist and you talk with people 07:29 in marriage situations... I'd like to hear from you: 07:33 Why is it important for an Adventist 07:37 to marry another Adventist believer? 07:41 Well, that is a very important question, 07:44 first of all, the question that I will ask is, 07:49 "Do you... " asking to the person, 07:51 "Do you really want harmony in your marriage?" 07:55 "If you do, if you want harmony, 08:00 then you need to look for all of those qualities 08:03 in the other person that connect with yours 08:06 so that the opportunity for harmony is increased. " 08:10 The greater the level of differences between you 08:13 in different ways, 08:15 the more the probability of having lack of harmony. " 08:19 But don't they say to you... 08:21 "Yeah but, he's not a believer 08:23 but he's very favorable towards... " 08:24 Senez: And he loves me... 08:26 Tom: "He loves me" that's right, "He loves me. " 08:27 "He loves me and love... love can do everything. " 08:31 Well, that opinion is likely to change very quickly 08:34 after the honeymoon when the real thing... 08:38 when the "yoke" becomes more heavy 08:40 with the conflicts and the problems that arise 08:44 as a natural consequence of living... two people together... 08:49 it doesn't matter how good each of them are, 08:52 any time that two people begin to live together, 08:54 there is going to be conflict. Tom: Hmmm... hmmm... 08:56 And so, when you marry someone 08:58 who does not believe like you believe, 09:00 doesn't want to go to the church as you would like to go, 09:04 when you have to receive the Sabbath, 09:06 they don't sit down with you, 09:08 when you want to read the Bible, they want to do something else, 09:11 when they want to go to the Baseball game on Sabbath, 09:14 you want to go to the Sabbath School, 09:15 is that leading to harmony... or the opposite? 09:21 And then, that's the moment or the time when... 09:24 then they wonder whether they made a mistake 09:27 and that is exactly what happens so... 09:31 and then when the kids come, 09:33 do you want the kids to have the education 09:36 that you want for them? 09:37 Do you want the kids to worship together with mom and dad? 09:43 So, again, the greater the difference 09:46 between the two of them, 09:48 the greater the probability of having conflicts. 09:51 Well, why do you think it is that 09:53 so many people have difficulty seeing that? 09:56 Because they fall in love with their eyes. 09:59 In other words, with their heart instead of 10:02 with the brain. Tom: Yeah. 10:04 So the eyes look at what is in front of you 10:07 but God looks at... what? 10:09 Tom: In the heart. Senez: The heart. 10:11 So we need to pray to God for guidance 10:13 and seeking the counsel of those who have more experience 10:17 so that then... we can be aware of the things 10:21 that may be problematic down the road 10:24 so, prevention is much better than 10:28 trying to resolve a problem 10:29 that was created in the first place for your choice, 10:32 and every choice has its consequences. 10:35 Okay, good counsel, thank you so much 10:38 but Paul does have counsel for somebody who's married 10:45 to an unbeliever, it seems like, 10:46 like we said that they did not get in this situation... 10:51 in a way... they didn't "choose it to be this way" 10:54 it's just that their spouse didn't believe 10:57 and he gives two different counsels to these people 11:02 we'll see the first of these in the discussion this time, 11:07 and then... in our next discussion 11:09 which is the last in this Series, 11:12 we have his counsel to the other aspect or other condition. 11:18 The counsel here on this... is to stay in the marriage 11:22 if the unbeliever is willing to dwell with the believer, 11:27 he applies the teaching to both the male believer 11:31 with an unbelieving wife 11:33 and to a female believer with an unbelieving husband. 11:35 It's impressive to me to here in 1st Corinthians 7, 11:38 the way Paul continues his emphasis on mutuality, 11:41 we saw it at the beginning of chapter 7 11:44 where he was describing this sexual relation 11:47 and the idea of not touching a woman 11:49 was... not using her as a sexual object 11:51 and then he goes on to emphasize 11:54 that the husband has conjugal rights, 11:56 the wife has conjugal rights, 11:57 and you respect each other, 11:59 it's that expression of the "agape love" 12:02 that we've been talking about all through this Series 12:04 and here he continues to talk 12:06 about this kind of idea, he doesn't just say, 12:08 "Well, if the man has an unbelieving wife?" 12:11 he also mentions a woman 12:12 that would have an unbelieving husband 12:15 and that can be very, very challenging, 12:18 he applies the teaching to both the male believer 12:21 and the female believer in the different circumstances. 12:24 It is simple, direct counsel that Paul gives. 12:28 The Christian is not to be the one to break up a marriage. 12:32 The Christian is not to be the one... to break up a marriage. 12:37 This is in keeping with the teaching of Jesus 12:39 actually in the gospels. 12:41 Thus, so far there is no departure or addition 12:48 to what Jesus has said, actually, 12:49 even though the situation of the believer 12:53 is somewhat different from what Jesus described, 12:55 Paul is applying the teaching of Jesus in this new situation 13:00 and he follows the principle of staying together. 13:04 You know, Jesus said, 13:06 "What God has yoked together, let man not separate," 13:09 He said, "the two become one. " Hmmm... hmmm... 13:11 But it's so important that it almost supersedes saying, 13:18 "But what if I am yoked with an unbeliever?" 13:23 Some people might have gotten the idea, 13:24 "Well, maybe that means I should separate from them, 13:27 maybe I should... maybe I should divorce them... " 13:30 You see, sometimes people will rationalize 13:36 they'll say, "Well, my situation 13:39 isn't really like what Jesus described. " 13:42 That's really not what my situation's like 13:44 and they'll set His teaching aside, 13:47 because they think their situation is different 13:50 or shall we say, 13:52 "They want their situation to be different, 13:54 and they don't want to do what Jesus has said, perhaps. " 13:57 Paul isn't like that, he prefers to see 14:01 how Jesus' teaching applies in the new situation. 14:05 How Jesus' teaching applies in the new situation... 14:09 and the position Paul takes 14:11 is in keeping with Jesus' overall teaching 14:13 that Christians should stay in a marriage, 14:16 "What God has yoked together, man should not separate. " 14:20 The other thing is that some people get the idea 14:23 that if you are married to an unbeliever, 14:25 it is acceptable to leave the marriage 14:28 because you should not be linked to something "unholy" 14:31 and so they... like we said a little bit before 14:35 they think it's okay to walk out of that. 14:39 That sounds like what verse 14 is all about. 14:43 It's true, if... let's read verse 14 again 14:46 so we just have that... clearly. 14:48 "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, 14:52 and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband 14:57 else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. " 15:02 Yes, now this is really interesting. 15:05 The "For" at the beginning of that verse, 15:08 indicates that it's a supporting reason 15:11 for what he said in verse 12 and 13, 15:14 so in verses 12 and 13 he said, 15:15 "If you're married to an unbeliever... 15:17 you're a believer... you're married to an unbeliever, 15:19 you shouldn't be the one to go away, 15:21 it doesn't matter whether it's the husband or the wife, 15:24 you should stay in that situation. " 15:26 And so... he indicates that 15:31 the Christian should stay in the marriage 15:34 as long as the unbeliever is in agreement, 15:38 the reason Paul gives is that the unbelieving spouse, 15:42 is "sanctified" or made holy by the believer. 15:46 Now this is really... 15:48 this is an idea we have to delve into 15:51 we have to try to understand this better 15:53 because it seems a little odd to us, 15:56 what does the word, "holy" mean? 15:58 Well, this word is actually what we call a "cultic concept" 16:04 cultic... I know today people think... "oh, it's a cult" 16:10 but this is different, 16:13 when we're talking about a cultic concept, 16:15 we're talking about something that links a person or an object 16:21 to divinity... to that which is divine 16:24 okay, that's a cultic concept, 16:27 the "cultus... " is the worship of the god... 16:30 whether it's... the true God of heaven 16:33 or in the ancient world that they were worshipping other gods 16:36 the cultus... is the service they have in their temple, 16:39 that the cultus... okay... 16:40 so, to be holy means to be dedicated or consecrated 16:45 to the service of God, all right... 16:49 it means "to be pure or perfect 16:52 or worthy of God... that which is holy... " 16:55 or even the Sanctuary... 16:57 the verb has the idea of "consecrate or dedicate" 17:00 it includes a person in the inner circle 17:04 of what is "holy-able... cultic" 17:07 and the moral associations that go along with it, 17:09 so, that word... if you hear that and say, 17:12 "My! you mean that just being married to an unbeliever 17:15 does that... to this unbeliever? 17:17 You know, the believer makes them 'holy' somehow?" 17:21 Well, Paul uses the verb "to make holy" 17:25 three times in 1st Corinthians. 17:27 He uses it in chapter 1 verse 2, chapter 6 verse 11 17:31 and chapter 7 and verse 14. 17:33 In chapter 1 verse 2, 17:35 he refers to the sanctifying work of Christ 17:38 in setting the Christians apart to belong to God. 17:40 It is a perfect tense that's used there 17:44 so it means... a past action that has ongoing results 17:49 they are holy, they are sanctified 17:51 that they are set apart for God, okay, 17:53 and that's because of what Christ has done in their lives. 17:56 So, it talks about this "act of God" 18:00 over in chapter 6 verse 11, the verse says, 18:04 "Such were some of you: but you are washed, 18:07 but you are sanctified, 18:10 but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, 18:13 and in the Spirit of our God. " 18:14 It sounds fairly similar to what we said in chapter 1 verse 2, 18:20 there's a different kind of "tense" here... 18:25 it's called the "aorist" it's kind of a simple past tense 18:27 in most cases, 18:29 the "aorist" tense points more toward the event of 18:32 crossing over from outside... to inside the church, 18:36 okay, so, "you were washed... you were sanctified, 18:40 you became a Christian," we would say, 18:42 "you were baptized," okay, 18:44 then he says, "You were sanctified... " 18:47 suggested that it's not something you did to yourself, 18:50 it was something that God did in your life, 18:54 again, this is connected with Jesus, 18:56 in whose name they were washed 18:58 and sanctified and justified, 19:00 so the Trinity is at work together there to save us, 19:04 the Jesus Christ, the Spirit of God, 19:07 the activity of God. 19:09 Some of the other uses in 1st Corinthians illustrate 19:13 the call to a holy lifestyle, if anyone destroys God's temple, 19:18 Paul says in 1st Corinthians 3 verse 17, 19:20 God will destroy him... for God's temple is holy 19:23 and you are that temple. 19:24 So, Paul is battling factions 19:28 in the Corinthian church in chapter 3, 19:30 there's this very unseemly division 19:34 between groups in the church instead of unity, 19:36 and he calls on the Christians to be unified 19:39 and to not destroy the church by their divisions, 19:42 oh! amen... they still do that today. 19:46 Holiness is... being set apart for God 19:50 it's the reason... one must not break the community apart. 19:53 And that's another thing 19:55 further we should think about in the church, 19:57 there's a reason why we shouldn't break it apart 19:59 because the church is holy and that's dedicated to God. 20:02 In 1st Corinthians 6:19, we've studied before 20:05 "What? do you not know 20:07 that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit within you, 20:09 whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" 20:12 Our bodies are to be kept holy, undefiled with illicit sex 20:16 as a temple of the Holy Spirit. 20:18 So, what do these all mean in 1st Corinthians 7:14? 20:24 Yeah, all right, so, there we... 20:26 first we talk about the unbeliever, 20:28 these are... there are only two verses in 20:32 1st Corinthians where both the verb, "to make holy" 20:36 and the adjective, "holy," appear together, 20:40 and those two verses are in 1st Corinthians 1 verse 2 20:44 and our verse here, 1st Corinthians 7 verse 14, 20:48 in chapter 1 verse 2, as we saw... 20:52 the Perfect Tense of the verb indicated 20:53 that it was a past action that God performed 20:56 by means of Christ, which set His people aside 20:59 on a new path in which they are to live out 21:02 what they're set apart for 21:03 so you're "set apart for God, now, live like that" 21:06 show a holy life. 21:08 In chapter 7 verse 14, there's an interesting parallel. 21:12 The unbelieving husband is "sanctified" and that's again 21:16 a Perfect Tense, "has been sanctified" 21:19 it was something that happened in the past somewhere 21:21 and presumably, God was acting 21:25 and the means is, by the believer, 21:28 so the question is, "how can this be so?" 21:32 Well, there are three concepts from the Old Testament 21:36 and from Judaism that help to explain 21:39 what Paul is saying here 21:42 in 1st Corinthians 7:14, 21:44 this is just another one of those illustrations 21:46 that... when you have the background information 21:48 it helps you understand things better. 21:50 The first is the idea of holiness being transferrable. 21:53 Senez: Hmmm... Tom: Exodus 29 verse 37, 21:56 it says, "For seven days 21:59 you shall make atonement for the altar, and consecrate it; 22:01 then the altar shall be most holy: 22:02 and whatever touches the altar shall be holy. " 22:06 Senez: Hmmm... 22:08 If it touches the altar, it's holy. 22:09 Holiness is a relationship more than a static state 22:12 or an attribute, the "altar" is set apart for God 22:15 and it's the place of sacrifice and when it's most holy... 22:20 when you touch... you put something on it, 22:22 it makes it holy, it's transferrable, 22:24 all right, that's the first idea, 22:26 the second idea 22:28 comes from Judaism which is very interesting, 22:30 it has to do with "betrothal practices. " 22:33 Now, this is where you would, you would get engaged 22:36 and in the ancient world 22:37 getting engaged was a bigger deal 22:39 than what we do today. 22:41 If you get engaged today and you break it... 22:43 oh, people are sad and they're saying, 22:45 "But... okay... well, maybe it wasn't the right person" 22:48 but then... back then... if you get engaged... 22:50 it's like... you're like... you're married 22:53 and if you did break it up, it's like divorce. 22:55 This is what happened with Joseph and Mary 22:57 when he wants to... he's going to "divorce" her... 23:00 they've never slept together, they've never been together 23:02 but they're betrothed to be married. 23:05 Jewish marriage documents were going through a transition 23:07 in this era and at the time of Paul 23:09 and were altered from saying that the man acquires the woman 23:12 to saying that he sanctifies her. 23:14 "You are made holy to me," is one of the sayings, 23:20 it's in one of the documents, 23:22 the term may also be connected 23:23 with the ceremony of purification 23:25 which was part of the betrothal 23:26 or a marriage ceremony, 23:28 so, sanctification, in Judaism, even had this idea 23:33 that it was a part of marriage. 23:35 The third idea is: "the two become one flesh" 23:38 as we've already studied in Genesis 2 verse 24, 23:42 that Paul describes in 1st Corinthians 6:16, 23:45 "the two become one flesh. " 23:47 Because the believer is sanctified 23:49 by connection to Christ, anyone who touches the believer, 23:52 now, this isn't the touch we were talking about 23:54 in the beginning of the chapter, 23:55 but more of the idea of the transference of holiness, 23:58 becomes holy and is sanctified as well, 24:01 it doesn't suggest that the 24:03 unbeliever is somehow saved by this, 24:05 that's what we've got to understand, 24:07 it doesn't mean that the person is saved. 24:09 Paul is focusing more on the legitimacy of the marriage 24:12 and the fact that the believer is not defiled 24:15 by remaining married to the unbeliever. 24:18 So how do we know this? 24:20 Because Paul immediately gives a counterstatement 24:24 of what would be the case if it were true 24:26 that the believer was defiled by the unbeliever. 24:30 What's the case? 24:31 He says literally, "Since... because... then... " 24:35 and the case... in this case there's that... 24:38 something... a little something left out 24:39 but it goes like this... 24:41 where the full statement would be... 24:42 it would be: "Since, if it were otherwise, 24:45 your children would be unclean but now they are holy. " 24:51 What Paul means... 24:52 here's the simple thing that he means, 24:54 that marriage to an unbeliever 24:56 does not make the children of such a union... 24:59 illegitimate children, they are not bastards, 25:03 the Christian is not sinning 25:05 having children "out of wedlock," so to speak, 25:07 because he or she is married to an unbeliever. 25:10 Now, you might say today, 25:12 "I would never have thought that" 25:13 but they did back then, 25:15 remember these were people coming 25:16 out of paganism into Christianity 25:18 and they learn about the concept of holiness, 25:20 they probably had a clear sense of holiness 25:22 than we tend to today 25:24 and... so they had these kinds of questions, 25:26 so Paul makes it clear, 25:27 "Once a person is in such a marriage, 25:29 it is sanctified by God 25:32 through the presence of Christ in the believer's life, 25:35 he or she is not to seek escape from such a marriage 25:38 because the spouse is not a believer. " 25:41 Now, we just got a couple of minutes here 25:43 and I'd like to ask you, as a Clinical Psychologist, 25:46 what you recommend for people who are married to an unbeliever 25:51 for whatever the reason it might be... 25:52 but they're married to an unbeliever 25:53 and they're trying to cope with it, 25:55 what kinds of strategies do you suggest to them? 25:56 Well, I will suggest that the person look for common grounds 26:00 rather than focusing on differences, 26:04 what is common to us that it does not 26:07 put me in a difficult situation with my faith? 26:11 What is common to us that we... 26:13 what are the "likes" that we can share? 26:16 Also, respect the differences, 26:18 they don't have to be exactly the same, 26:22 but respecting the differences 26:24 and admit that there are differences, that's good, 26:26 but also, avoiding arguments over each other's religion, 26:30 any time that there are two 26:32 that believe totally different things, 26:34 there are grounds for a conflict 26:38 and also be faithful to the Lord and be a positive example... 26:43 positive model of what a Christian should be 26:48 and in doing that, 26:49 you are less likely to make the situation at home 26:54 much more stressful... conflicted... 26:57 This reminds me of 1st Peter chapter 3 26:59 where the Apostle talks about a wife 27:01 who's married to an unbeliever, 27:03 a believing wife and an unbeliever and she talks about, 27:06 "By their way of life, that they attract them. " 27:09 and she says, "By saying nothing," 27:10 she says, "without a word, they evangelize their husbands," 27:14 so they're not pestering them, they're not trying to force them 27:18 but they're living the Christ's life in front of them 27:21 and that has such a winning influence 27:23 and some of these people will be won. 27:25 I think we need to pray for 27:27 people who are in these situations 27:28 because I know that they carry sometimes... very heavy burdens 27:31 and they need the support of the church. 27:33 In our next discussion, 27:36 we are going to look at the important question 27:40 of being married to an unwilling... unbeliever. 27:44 It's a last one of our presentations 27:46 and it also talks about, 27:48 "Where does the Adventist Church 27:49 stand on the question of divorce?" 27:51 So we... I'm sure that you'll want to be here 27:53 and be able to hear 27:54 that last presentation that we've had, 27:56 we're glad that you've been able to watch these 27:59 and we pray that God will bless and use your life 28:02 and that you'll be encouraged 28:03 as you look forward to the coming of Jesus. 28:05 Thanks for being with us today. |
Revised 2016-04-26