It Is Written

Planet in Distress

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Bradshaw

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Series Code: IIW

Program Code: IIW001384A


01:30 ♪[Theme Music]♪
01:49 ♪[Music]♪ Thanks for joining me today
01:58 on It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
02:01 You know as well as I do that in recent years,
02:04 environmental issues have become very big news.
02:07 People talk about climate change, the resulting rising
02:11 in sea levels, the polar ice cap melting, people in danger,
02:15 wildlife endangered, species becoming even more endangered.
02:19 In recent years there has been talk about ozone layer
02:22 depletion, nuclear issues, particularly when natural
02:27 disasters cause problems at nuclear power stations.
02:30 People fear what are we going to do to avoid nuclear waste
02:35 and nuclear fall-out. There's any number
02:38 of environmental issues today, some of them have been
02:41 highly politicized but my question today
02:44 is what does any of this have to do with the Bible?
02:48 Maybe nothing, maybe something. My guest today
02:52 is Scott Christiansen. Scott has worked virtually all
02:55 of his adult life in Christian ministry, at times, working
02:59 with environmental issues in various parts of the world.
03:03 He has seen, up close, the way the environment is changing
03:07 and the effect that that has on society and its relationship
03:13 to the Bible. Scott is an author and his
03:15 seminar on the Bible and the Environment has been
03:18 warmly and enthusiastically received all across
03:21 North America. Scott Christiansen,
03:23 thanks for joining me today. SC: Thank you John.
03:25 It's my pleasure to be here. JB: Tell me, to begin with,
03:27 what do environmental issues have to do with the Bible,
03:30 if anything at all? SC: Well, let's go straight
03:33 to Scripture. Let's go to Matthew 24.
03:35 Christ told his disciples what the waymarks would be
03:37 before he came. He gave us many,
03:40 many things to look for. And in fact,
03:42 in Mark, Chapter 13, we are told to watch.
03:45 We have a responsibility to watch.
03:48 So we are not to be passive. When in Matthew 24 we are told
03:52 that there will be wars and rumors of wars.
03:54 We are told that there will be pestilences and famines
03:56 and earthquakes in diverse places.
03:58 In the last 50 years or so, we've seen increasing
04:03 disturbances in the environment and we are
04:05 coming to understand destabilization in the
04:07 environment destabilizes a society and leads to conflict,
04:10 and leads to pestilence, and leads to famine.
04:13 It leads to the fulfillment of prophecy and we're
04:16 seeing it now. JB: So why are environmental
04:20 issues biblical issues? Where is the correlation?
04:24 SC: You have to go back to the systems, not just
04:28 the things that were created during creation week
04:30 because we all know that the oceans were made
04:32 and the atmosphere and everything else, but you
04:34 have to go back to the systems. JB: What do you mean systems?
04:37 SC: Well, our oceanic system and how it interacts with our
04:41 atmospheric system. How these two systems which
04:43 were created on the same day, two halves of one whole, our
04:46 atmosphere and our hydrosphere, how these were created and are
04:49 constantly interacting with each other, chemical balances
04:52 and thermal balances and that enabled, of course, animal life
04:55 and the animal life depended upon the plant life that was
05:00 created which depended, of course, upon the soil
05:03 being healthy. All of these things are systems.
05:07 You've got our fresh water system and you've got such
05:11 things as our nutrient system, our nitrogen cycle, our alkaline
05:16 metal cycle, which is potassium, calcium, magnesium.
05:19 So the Lord made massive systems, oceanic, atmospheric,
05:23 climate, and he made small systems and they all fit
05:27 together and work together perfectly.
05:29 He created everything in perfection.
05:31 And then sin entered the world. JB: What did sin do to
05:35 the perfection of God's systems? SC: What is the consequence
05:38 of sin? The consequence of sin is death.
05:42 And we have always said, well, OK, people die, animals die,
05:45 humans understand that. What we have not appreciated
05:49 is that sin affects the planet itself.
05:52 JB: So when death entered the world, and if we stop
05:54 and think about this, sin brings death but also
05:57 it brought death to trees and whatever else dies,
06:02 stuff in the water. SC: It brought death to every
06:05 part of the massive systems that God created to sustain
06:09 life on this planet and, therefore, it brought death
06:13 to those systems themselves. If every piece is dying,
06:15 if every cell in your body is dying, then your entire
06:17 body is dying. God created the planet in such
06:20 perfection, and in such perfect balance, that it has gone
06:24 on for a very long time. However, like a spinning top,
06:30 you know, it goes perfectly at first.
06:33 It's very stable. But then it destabilizes
06:35 and it begins to wobble and you have seen
06:37 the spinning top. The end comes very quickly
06:39 and looking at the evidence in their natural world,
06:43 we are at the point where the systems that God created
06:47 are so affected by sin that they are destabilized
06:50 and like a top they are wobbling significantly.
06:52 JB: Somebody is going to say, Why are you blaming sin for
06:57 a hole in the ozone layer when scientifically we would believe
07:01 that that is because of too much CFC's gone in the environment.
07:05 Why are you blaming sin for my careless use of refrigerants?
07:10 SC We were told to be stewards of this planet.
07:15 We were given dominion over the planet.
07:17 If we were living up to our charge, we would not be
07:20 destabilizing the earth. And that's a fact of sin in man.
07:24 You have to trace the problem all the way back.
07:27 You can say that people are not responsible.
07:29 You can say that corporations aren't responsible.
07:31 You can say that governments are not responsible
07:33 but that does not trace the problem back to its roots.
07:36 You trace the problem back to its roots,
07:38 and it's the effect of sin. There is a reason that God
07:41 hates sin. It only decays, it only
07:44 destroys, it only causes death. JB: We tend to think
07:48 of industrialization and flash cars, nice cars, as progress.
07:55 SC: What we've done as a global human society
07:59 is kind of build a bubble around ourselves.
08:03 Cars are part of it. The industrial life
08:04 is a part of it. But we think we don't really
08:08 need God. And we think we don't really
08:10 need the world that He created. We think that spirituality
08:14 is outside of our industrial society and we think that nature
08:19 is outside of our industrial society.
08:21 In fact, God created systems that support life on this earth
08:25 and we are anything but outside of those systems.
08:28 So as the earth continues to decay and it is an accelerating
08:31 decay, right now, so its not just a
08:33 linear process, it is an accelerating decay.
08:35 As the earth continues to decay, we will be more and more
08:40 destabilized as a global society and that's a big deal because
08:44 it leaves us to the fulfillment of prophecy.
08:46 JB: The decay we see in society not just people killing
08:51 each other and interpersonal problems, but environmental
08:55 issues we see because they are a result of sin.
08:58 SC: Absolutely. Oh, absolutely!
09:00 Let me give you a specific example just of a society
09:04 that's being impacted by environmental decay.
09:07 Let's go to Syria. For the last six years,
09:11 there has been ... and it has kind of gone
09:13 up and down a little bit, but there has been a very
09:15 significant drought in the Middle East
09:17 and in the Mediterranean region. So much so, that in Syria,
09:20 in particular, there have been successive years of crop
09:23 failures and successive years of herds of animals
09:27 that could not graze and had to be slaughtered.
09:30 Subsistence farmers had less and less and less.
09:33 Now, scientific studies have validated that the Arab spring,
09:39 so-called, while it was in response to despotic
09:42 governments, was actually triggered by a sharp rise
09:46 in food prices. So all around the Middle East
09:49 you had the Arab spring rise. It was triggered ultimately
09:53 by this drought. Now so what we see is a shift
09:56 in climate, people that are hungry
10:00 and desperate, rebellions and then massive death
10:04 and displacement and continuing disruption to neighboring
10:07 countries. So we see wars and rumors
10:09 of wars. We see famine.
10:12 We see pestilence because of rise in disease.
10:15 This is just one grain of sand on the scale.
10:18 But when you see the trend that we are one as a globe, you see
10:22 how this lines up with prophecy and we're really
10:25 not awake to it. JB: Societal issues brought
10:27 about by environmental issues, which were triggered by sin.
10:30 SC: Right, right. JB: In just a moment I am going
10:32 to ask you this question. I want to give you a second
10:34 to think about it. The question is: Is God
10:37 an environmentalist? Give that some thought.
10:39 You can give that some thought too.
10:41 We'll be back with more on It is Written in just a moment.
10:46 ♪ [Gentle Music] ♪
10:57 Every Word is a one-minute Bible-based daily devotional
11:01 presented by pastor John Bradshaw and designed especially
11:04 for busy people like you. Look for Every Word on selected
11:08 networks or watch it online everyday on our website,
11:11 itiswritten.com.
11:14 ♪ [Bright Rythmic Melody] ♪ Well they say the Mayan calendar
11:23 was going to expire on December 21, 2012.
11:26 Some say the world was going to end,
11:28 but we're still here. The expiration of this
11:30 particular cycle of the Meso-American long count
11:33 calendar was most likely only meant to signify the end of a
11:36 particular cycle and not the end of the world.
11:38 The world was never going to come to an end on December 21,
11:42 but it will one day. In Matthew 24, Jesus spoke of
11:44 certain things that would take place in the world and then he
11:47 said in verse 33, "When you see all these things,
11:50 know that it is near - even at the doors!"
11:53 And those signs he spoke of look very much like
11:55 they're very near the point of fulfillment.
11:58 If you follow an old calendar, you'll likely believe
12:00 anything, but if you trust the Bible,
12:02 you'll know that Jesus will soon be here and
12:06 you'll be ready. [Bright rhythmic tune]
12:07 I'm John Bradshaw for It Is Written.
12:09 Let's live today by Every Word.
12:15 Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written.
12:17 My guest today is author, seminar presenter, Christian
12:21 minister, Scott Christiansen. And we are discussing today
12:25 the relationship between the environment, the decaying
12:28 environment, and the Bible. Scott, I told you just a moment
12:32 ago that I am about to ask you this question.
12:34 SC: Right. JB: Here's the question.
12:36 Is God an environmentalist? SC: If you take the word
12:40 "environmentalist" and you ask people to define it you are
12:44 going to get a bunch of different ... so I have to be
12:46 careful in my answer because if I say yes, then theres
12:48 going to be a dozen different people thinking
12:50 a dozen different things. So let me just put it like this:
12:53 when God created the world, we're told in Job
12:55 that the morning stars sang, that heaven was amazed
12:58 and celebrated over this amazing earth.
13:02 So if you mean by "environmentalist" that this
13:04 is someone who loves the beauty and majesty of the earth
13:07 and who celebrates it, then my answer
13:10 is absolutely yes! And if you mean that by
13:13 "environmentalist" that this is someone who wants to preserve
13:16 the earth, then my answer is yes.
13:19 And all we have to do is go to the most commonly quoted
13:23 and memorized text in all of Christendom.
13:25 "For God so loved the world..." JB: There's a tension here.
13:30 Probably in everything there is a tension and we are going
13:32 to zero in on the tension here. God created the world.
13:36 The question I asked you is a loaded question,
13:39 "Is God an environmentalist?" because it is loaded with
13:42 so many different meanings, but looking at it,
13:44 the first verse of the Bible says "in the beginning
13:46 God created," so God loves the environment, obviously,
13:50 and he made a perfect and a beautiful earth which
13:52 is still very beautiful but far from perfect today.
13:55 God made the earth to serve us, did He not?
14:00 SC: Yes He did. It's our home.
14:02 JB: Kill that animal under a certain circumstance, cut down
14:04 that tree under a certain circumstance, these were
14:06 renewable resources, so probably God was not taking a big risk
14:10 with that. But there's a tension,
14:12 isn't there, between how to appropriately manage
14:17 the environment. How does the Christian find that balance?
14:21 SC: First of all, we have to remember that the world
14:24 is not only tainted by sin, it is dying
14:26 as a result of sin. If we are going to try and fix
14:29 something, if we are going to try and save the world,
14:33 then what is the proposal for reversing the effects of sin?
14:38 What is the proposal for not having prophecy come
14:42 to fulfillment that the earth will be destroyed
14:45 and recreated? JB: Are you saying
14:46 that environmental activism is futile?
14:49 SC: I have to walk a very fine line here.
14:50 JB: That's the tension. SC: That's the tension because
14:52 here's the thing. If you only have so much time
14:55 and you only have so many resources, are you going
14:57 to invest those in a planet that's dying or are you
15:00 going to invest those in people who can be saved?
15:03 And you have to balance that, with the fact
15:05 that there is a tremendously disproportionate distribution
15:09 of resources in the world. There is 3.5 billion people who
15:13 make less than $2.50 a day. Some of those people spend 90%
15:17 of their income on food and their lives are desperate.
15:21 So everything that we do that consumes more resources,
15:25 disproportionately, in excess if you will, and everything that we
15:29 do that places a greater burden on the planet, makes those
15:33 people's lives more difficult. There is a responsibility there.
15:37 There is a balance there and I think it is to
15:39 the individual to decide where it is.
15:41 For me, it's a matter of putting all of my efforts into
15:46 pointing people to Christ and His very, very soon coming.
15:49 JB: I imagine ... I'm imagining that if somebody loves God they
15:52 are going to love what God loves and that would instill in them
15:55 a care, at least, for the environment.
15:59 Should Christians be environmentalists?
16:01 Should Christians be greenies? SC: Christians should be
16:04 environmentalists in this sense: Well, first they should be
16:08 responsible to their fellow man and they should not have
16:11 a disproportionate use of resources.
16:13 They need to be careful but at the same time
16:16 understanding, of course, that the world is dying.
16:19 Christians should be environmentalists in the sense
16:21 that they are absolutely looking forward to seeing the earth
16:25 recreated in its full glory and full
16:27 majesty. In that sense, I am a raging
16:30 environmentalist. I can hardly wait to see
16:32 the earth as God created it in its perfection.
16:34 It fills me with joy just to think about it.
16:38 But our responsibility is here and now.
16:40 Our responsibility is spreading the good news
16:43 of Christ's return. JB: A few moments ago you
16:46 mentioned that you'll find the right words
16:49 ...the destruction of the earth,
16:50 the decay of the earth. You said it's happening
16:53 in a fashion that is not linear, but it's accelerating.
16:56 How do we see this accelerating decay of the planet.
17:00 Let's talk about some examples. SC: I want to go immediately
17:03 to scientific studies and data and all of that.
17:06 But, concurrent with scientific studies, you get a general sense
17:11 when you talk to people or when people observe the environment
17:13 around them. This was not happening
17:15 when I was a kid. People themselves observe
17:17 changes. Greater storms, greater heat
17:20 waves, more droughts and you can't always trust those things.
17:24 When you've got a global sense that things are changing
17:27 and things are different and that the planet
17:29 is more hostile, that in itself is a data point.
17:32 Aside from that, let's go back to data.
17:35 Let's go to something that is hard. And that is, we
17:37 have had a quintupling of damage from disasters
17:40 on a global basis, with a disproportion amount of that
17:44 damage centered in the United States, which is interesting.
17:47 JB: Before we talk about natural disasters, let me slip
17:50 in here if I may. Don't we simply have better
17:55 mechanisms for recording disasters?
18:01 The Richter scale has only been in existence for so long
18:03 and so forth. SC: It's interesting.
18:05 Let's go back to the frequency of disasters.
18:08 Now I have a chart that I use that tracks disasters and this
18:11 is out of an organization called EM-DAT out of Brussels and you
18:15 have to use the chart very, very carefully because these are
18:18 observed disasters or these are reported disasters,
18:21 more accurately. And so, you go back to 1900
18:24 and while we were still using, you know, the telegraph,
18:27 but if you look at the data trend on this and you notice
18:31 from, say, 1970, 1980, we had satellites, we had
18:36 communication everywhere. We had cable TV in the 80's
18:39 but the rise in disasters has been constant
18:43 since then and extremely significant.
18:46 So yes, we are seeing an increase in disasters
18:49 and an increase in the magnitude of disasters as well.
18:52 It's happening and it is a big deal and it fulfills prophecy.
18:55 JB: And an increase in the cost of those disasters in turn goes
18:59 on to affect society in many ways.
19:01 SC: We underestimate the profound affect
19:05 of society by an environment that is steadily destabilizing.
19:09 We think we are separate. We think there's just trees
19:13 and grass and things out there but, as a matter of fact, we're
19:16 pumping out our aquifers all over the world.
19:18 In major cities, we're beginning to run out of water,
19:22 especially in Asia. It's a big deal.
19:24 The oceans are crashing. It's expected,
19:28 scientists who have looked at this carefully, that the oceans
19:31 will be essentially fished out of commercial species
19:33 in the next 25 years. The ecosystem is crashing
19:36 and there is a billion people who rely on the oceans
19:39 for their food. JB: Let's come back to this
19:41 in just a moment. And also, let's look at some
19:44 biblical references to the problems the environment
19:51 is facing due to the work of sin.
19:55 We'll be back with more in just a moment.
19:59 ♪ [Gently thoughtful Melody] ♪
20:10 If you could just go back in time and do things differently!
20:14 Perhaps you've struggled with regret,
20:16 the added weight of guilt. While theres no way to undo
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20:26 Sound too good to be true? See what the Bible says!
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21:29 This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
21:30 My guest today is Scott Christiansen who is an author,
21:34 a Christian minister, and a seminar presenter,
21:36 dealing with the very important and timely subject of the decay
21:41 in the environment around us and how that relates
21:45 to the Word of God. Now Scott, Isaiah wrote many,
21:48 many years ago that the earth would wax old like a garment.
21:52 What do you think he was talking about there?
21:54 SC: In my interpretation, under sin, the world destabilizes.
21:59 The world falls apart. JB: So sin doesn't just make
22:01 murderers out of people, it affects the ground and the
22:06 trees and the air and the ocean. Absolutely and surprisingly!
22:09 And you know, we couldn't actually see this because
22:12 we only have a generational view, because we only see
22:14 things in our lifetime. Until the decay of the earth
22:18 accelerated. Basically within the last 50 years
22:20 we've been able to begin to see this and now
22:23 we have a building sense, as a global community we have
22:25 a building sense that something's wrong.
22:29 Let's zero in a little bit on some of these systemic
22:33 collapses. You'd spoke before briefly
22:36 about the oceans. You mentioned that a colossal
22:40 amount of people depend upon the oceans.
22:43 SC: A billion or more than a billion.
22:45 JB: But the oceans are collapsing.
22:48 I've heard about these dead spots in the ocean.
22:51 Tell me about that. SC: Well what happens is, we
22:53 apply massive amounts of fertilizer to grow
22:56 the food that the planet needs and, by the way,
22:58 we're on a razor's edge, we might want to talk about that
23:00 when it comes to global food supply.
23:02 But this fertilizer and pesticides that we use
23:04 all over the world, part of it gets washed off
23:06 the land and then you have all these nutrients flowing
23:09 into the ocean, and that causes a bloom, an algal bloom,
23:13 and that algal bloom just expands, just explodes
23:16 and then collapses and dies, and when that algal
23:19 bloom dies the decay sucks all the oxygen out of the water.
23:22 In the Gulf of Mexico you have a dead spot the size of Vermont,
23:27 for instance, where the water is dead.
23:30 Theres nothing in there that's living.
23:31 It is below the surface, because the surface of the water
23:35 exchanges oxygen with the atmosphere,
23:37 but below the surface, if something swims in,
23:39 it doesn't swim out. It is completely dead.
23:41 JB: Okay. We're talking about the oceans.
23:42 The ocean is really big, man. It covers this great big part
23:45 of the earth. You talk about a size
23:47 of Vermont. Here's my question.
23:49 Is it really that big? SC: It's really that big.
23:51 JB: No, no, I mean really. Is it really that bad or is this
23:54 just environmental hysteria, some greenie who hugs trees
23:58 wants you to think that we're at crisis point.
24:01 Is it really that bad? SC: It's really that bad.
24:04 Let's take your point. You say the ocean's big.
24:07 Now when I worked in Mongolia I would frequently fly from
24:11 Los Angeles to Beijing. I get on the plane in seconds
24:14 I would be over the Pacific Ocean.
24:16 I'd read a book. I'd watch a movie.
24:18 I'd start another book. I'd take a nap,
24:21 and you know what? At 600 miles an hour we were
24:23 still over the Pacific Ocean. It's massive.
24:25 It's huge and yet, it's very well documented.
24:28 The entire ocean, not just the Pacific, our entire
24:31 hydrosphere is collapsing, the ocean specifically.
24:35 The life in it, the fish in it, the very acid levels which are
24:39 affecting life chains, our corals,
24:41 everything's falling apart the most rapidly of any system
24:44 that we are observing. It's profound
24:47 and it's very serious. JB: And the implications of this
24:51 collapsing ocean will be what? SC: Well over there the economic
24:54 implications are huge, though we're mostly
24:57 focusing on the spiritual. But let's go to the things
25:00 that are linked to prophecy. We've got a billion people
25:03 who depend primarily on the ocean for food.
25:06 Each year that food gets less now.
25:08 The resource is less on a global basis, but within
25:12 25 years or less, it'll be entirely fished out
25:16 for all practical purposes. Then you have got a billion
25:19 people that, starting now, are having to transition over
25:22 to land-based food. Now, we are right at a razor's
25:26 edge between the amount of food that we produce and the amount
25:30 of food that we consume. Last year we consumed more food
25:33 than we produced. Yes, that's a very big deal.
25:36 It's very serious. We're in a world of trouble
25:40 and we can see the process is flowing that, where society
25:43 becomes more destabilized, we see more wars and rumors
25:47 of wars over food, over water, over oil, over metals,
25:51 over something like phosphate, which is a critically pressured
25:55 resource. All of these things are coming
25:57 at once in our age. We're seeing this confluence
26:01 of forces. JB: Won't we figure it out?
26:04 I mean, we've got brilliant people around this world.
26:06 We've figured out all the problems so far.
26:09 I mean, isn't there a way out of this?
26:11 SC: It is the fundamental nature of man to try and figure out
26:15 a solution to these, to problems.
26:18 And we've dodged the bullet, as a global society,
26:22 we've dodged the bullet a number of times.
26:24 But we've got a number of problems facing us right now.
26:27 We've got a decay in our atmosphere.
26:31 We've got a decay in our hydrosphere -- that's fresh
26:34 water and salt water. We've got significant decay
26:37 of soils around the world, and their ability to produce.
26:41 We've got a growing population base.
26:44 If we look at one problem, one universal problem that the globe
26:50 got together, the nations of the earth got together
26:53 and solved, what would that problem be?
26:56 There's almost no example. So we've got these numbers
26:59 of problems which are converging and which accelerate each other
27:03 and we've got no basis for solving anything.
27:06 But, above and beyond that, let me ask again,
27:09 you know, what is the proposal for reversing the effects of sin
27:12 and how does that sync with scripture?
27:15 JB: So, looking at this scripturally, the environment
27:17 is falling apart as a result of sin collapsing.
27:19 What's the end game? SC: The end game is laid out
27:22 very well in Matthew 24 and it's a good chapter
27:26 to read every month. We know that we have a time
27:28 of little trouble coming. We know we have a time of great
27:31 trouble coming, and we know that Christ's coming is soon and this
27:35 really is my message to people. It's not an environmental
27:38 message. The message is Jesus
27:40 really is coming. JB: And the environment is yet
27:43 another marker, demonstrator of that fact.
27:46 SC: Right. Christ would not tell us
27:48 in Mark 13 to watch and give us nothing to watch
27:51 for. And this is one more sign that His coming is very,
27:54 very soon. Is our sense of urgency
27:57 commensurate with the nearness of His coming?
28:00 JB: Facinating discussion today about the biblical connection
28:04 between the deterioration of our environment
28:07 and the prophetic signs of Jesus' return.
28:12 Scott Christiansen, I'm so thankful you were
28:14 here with me today. SC: It's been my pleasure.
28:15 JB: Let's take the opportunity to pray and ask God to bless
28:18 as we get ready for Jesus' return.
28:21 ♪ [Gentle Melody] ♪ Our Father in heaven,
28:23 how thankful we are that we have much to look forward to.
28:26 The signs around us that herald the return of Jesus, while they
28:30 can alarm us on so many levels, also excite us.
28:33 It was Luke who wrote Jesus' words "When you see these things
28:37 begin to come to pass, lift up your heads and look up
28:40 for your redemption draws nigh." Lord, thank you for the message
28:43 that around us the world tells us our redemption draws nigh.
28:48 We thank you for a Savior who loves us enough to return
28:51 and take us home. Let that day come soon, I pray,
28:54 in Jesus' name, Amen. ♪ [Thoughtful Melody] ♪
29:18 ♪ [It Is Written Theme] ♪ Thank you for joining me today.
29:20 I look forward to seeing you again next time.
29:22 Until then, remember, "It is written, 'man shall not
29:25 live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds
29:30 from the mouth of God.'" ♪[Music]♪


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Revised 2018-02-13