Participants: Jim Reinking
Series Code: LDS
Program Code: LDS000020
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10:00 Scholars have pretty much agreed that
10:02 probably they were located in the plain 10:05 that now lies under the Dead Sea. 10:08 And let me tell you under the Dead Sea 10:10 there is nothing burning, 10:13 undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 10:17 Again we are going to allow the Bible 10:19 to interpret itself, right. 10:20 I am gonna share with you two passages that relate 10:23 to what happened to the wicked inhabitants 10:25 of Sodom and Gomorrah going back to Genesis 19:17. 10:29 Remember the angels came to get Lot 10:31 and his family out of the city before the destruction 10:33 and they said to Lot and his family. 10:35 "He said, 'Escape for your life, 10:38 look not behind thee, 10:39 neither stay thou in all the plain, 10:41 escape to the mountain, 10:43 lest thou be" what? "Consumed. " 10:47 So what happened to the wicked inhabitants? 10:50 The Bible says the angel said they were going to be consumed. 10:54 We are gonna compile a list tonight. 10:56 You may want to do this in your notes 10:58 and we are gonna take the words straight of the Bible, 11:00 we are not gonna be interpretive about it. 11:02 We are just gonna take the language 11:03 as we find it in the scriptures 11:05 and it's gonna be text after text as you can see 11:07 by looking at your notes. 11:09 And so the first word we want to add up there 11:12 is the word, "Consume. " 11:13 Do remember in Jude 7 it says, 11:15 "They are exhibited as an example to us. " 11:18 An example of what is going to happen 11:20 to the wicked in the end time. 11:23 Do you know that Jesus 11:25 dealt with this issue of what happened 11:27 to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? 11:30 As you will find it as we, 11:33 we look to Luke 17 the New Testament page 62. 11:37 Page 62, Luke 17 11:39 and we are gonna look at verse 29. 11:42 Luke 17:29 were Jesus said 11:49 "But on the day that Lot went out form Sodom 11:53 it rained fire and brimstone 11:55 from heaven and destroyed them all. " 11:59 What happened to them? 12:01 The keyword here is the key, is the word what? 12:04 Destroyed, Destroyed. 12:08 And so we are going to add that to the list, "Destroyed. " 12:12 Again it's the term we are not 12:14 you know again gonna be highly interpretive at all 12:18 but what the Bible teaches on this. 12:20 And then let's take a look at 2 Thessalonians 1, 12:22 the New Testament page 161, 12:26 161, 2 Thessalonians 1:9. 12:33 Thessalonians and of course one of those letters that Paul wrote 12:37 we have two letters that he wrote 12:40 to the Thessalonians and here in 2 Thessalonians, 12:44 it says in 1 and just come down right there to verse 9 12:48 and again its talking about the wicked. 12:51 It says "These will pay 12:53 the penalty of eternal destruction, 12:57 away from the presence of the Lord 12:59 and from the glory of His power." 13:02 Take out these terms, "Eternal Destruction." 13:06 Okay, we looked at three texts. 13:09 We got in a little sense of the drift again. 13:11 You know again I'm using that 13:13 illustration of the post line. 13:14 We have got three post down. 13:15 We are beginning here little bit 13:17 of the sense of the direction where this may be going. 13:20 You do have a clue where we are going right, 13:22 based on this view opening text. 13:24 But I have got a lot more that I am gonna share with you 13:27 but you might think to yourself 13:29 how about Revelation 20:10 that 13:31 we began with where it says they will, 13:34 you know, for ever, and ever. 13:35 I mean that seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? 13:40 Now remember we not only look at the text 13:42 but we need also being considering the context. 13:46 So let's go back and look at this text in this context. 13:49 Back to Revelation 20, that's the New Testament page 200, 13:53 page 200 and Revelation 20 13:55 and we are going to look at the previous verse. 13:57 Not verse 10 where we were but the previous verse. 14:01 And I want to point out something 14:03 as we studied the millennium you will remember 14:05 that we discover the Bible teaches that 14:07 at the end of the thousand year period of time, 14:09 who is that that is resurrected? 14:12 Who is resurrected at the end of the thousand years? 14:16 The wicked. 14:17 And why are they resurrected? 14:19 For the purpose of judgment, that's right. 14:21 Okay, this is the context they have been resurrected. 14:25 This is their final punishment as 14:27 what's being referred to here. 14:29 And remember Satan is lose for short time, 14:31 in verse 7 it talks about that he is lose for short time 14:34 and the wicked are resurrected, He goes out and organizes 14:37 and that they go up against the encamped at the saints. 14:40 Remember, the New Jerusalem 14:42 and the people of God have come down from heaven to earth 14:44 and they are determined 14:46 they are gonna fight this out to the end. 14:48 This is the context. 14:49 Verse 9 "And they" 14:51 the wicked "came up on the broad plain of the earth 14:53 and surrounded the camp of the saints 14:56 and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven" 15:01 and did what to them? 15:04 "Devoured them" is what the Bible says. 15:08 So let's add that to our list. 15:11 The bible says "they will be devoured." 15:15 Now I want to sure we really understand 15:17 what we are talking about 15:18 so, let me give you 15:19 a just a simple but practical illustration. 15:22 After years of training and education, 15:25 four years of undergraduate work in theology, 15:28 two year internship, out in the field 15:32 followed by another two years masters program 15:36 and another two years of internship 15:39 they finally gave me my own district. 15:42 I've been associated pastor up to that point. 15:45 And the district they gave me up there 15:47 in the north central part of the state 15:49 of Washington in the Okanagan country. 15:51 In fact, as we move there 15:54 this would be this would be 1976, 16:00 77, 1977, we moved in there. 16:05 We moved into the parsonage 16:07 and for the first time in our experience 16:10 we had a house. 16:11 Every time up to that point 16:12 we were either in apartment we were renting or in a duplex. 16:16 Now we were in a house, 16:18 we were paying rent for it. 16:20 And in that house there was a Franklin stove. 16:24 We didn't realize how cold it was going to get. 16:28 Like as you was laid over 16:30 the Canadian and Washington US border. 16:33 We were four, almost four miles from Canada. 16:36 So we were really north 16:38 in the eastern slopes of the Cascade Mountains. 16:42 We were in orchid country. 16:44 My head elder was David Buck Miller 16:47 and the harvest over three weeks of intensive 16:51 we were getting those apples down 16:52 into the warehouse and he was done. 16:55 The weather was holding and he said to me, 16:57 you know, we got to get you 16:58 a load of wood for that Franklin stove. 17:00 Not just on my heart right over 17:02 I knew this was gonna be a man 17:04 that I could really work with. 17:06 And so on a Sunday 17:08 he came by with his great pickup with sideboards on it. 17:11 We headed it down highway 97 17:14 and went up on what we call the Molson grey. 17:16 There was this track 17:17 and there was a high bench up there 17:20 and we found some trees that were fallen 17:22 and they were seasoned 17:24 and he said I am gonna cut them up 17:26 and why don't you start splitting them? 17:28 I have never done any splitting in my life. 17:31 You know, I was a runner, I was young, 17:35 I was still in my 20s. 17:36 Man, I was still young. 17:38 And I was in a real strong cardiovascular fitness program 17:42 you know, so I was thought it was really in shape. 17:45 I really found what work was about. 17:47 As he was cutting them up 17:49 and as I was splitting them until we had a load that, 17:52 you know, came right up 17:53 even with those sideboards 17:56 and we got in. 17:58 This is the old truck now. 18:00 And we are coming down 18:02 and this kind of rugged road 18:03 and you can feel that load kind of shifting, 18:05 those springs were wow. 18:07 You know, long overdue 18:08 they have been replaced probably. 18:10 And I was sitting on my-- and we came to side 18:12 as we were coming down it was steep 18:13 and on my side it was particularly steep. 18:17 And I wasn't sure that he was such a talker and he was 18:20 you know he's got another young pastor. 18:22 You know to share all of this 18:24 you know sage experience and anyway 18:28 I don't what he was talking about 18:30 because I was nervous. 18:31 I just was not sure and sure enough it happened. 18:36 The back wheel on my side began to slip 18:40 right over in the loose gravel. 18:43 For sure and we were going fast and fortunately 18:46 he had very fast reflexes, he is on that break in a moment. 18:51 We set the break, we climbed on his side 18:54 and surveyed the situation. 18:56 As I said it was loose gravel and the load was like this. 19:01 And it was cleared to us 19:02 that if he tried to drive it up out of it 19:04 and it just going to go right on over. 19:07 But, you know, we know we found some stones 19:10 and we build up ourselves a ramp. 19:12 And anyway we got out of there 19:13 but that was more excitement than I encountered for. 19:17 And when we got home the work wasn't over 19:19 because what you load up you got to unload 19:22 and we unloaded it, 19:23 threw it into the backyard over that picket fence. 19:26 We had a place down the cellar where we gonna put it. 19:28 I remember telling David 19:29 I think I will save this for another day 19:31 I was really beat. 19:33 Went in to find my wife had been baking peach pies. 19:39 Peach pies, do you love peach pies like I do? 19:43 I think she had seven of them. 19:45 She-- she was baking most of them about halfway through 19:48 and sticking them into the freezer 19:50 to be used in the winter months. 19:52 But two of them she had baked, all that aroma, 19:55 when you are so hungry 19:57 and you have been out in the open air 19:58 you know how it is, right. 20:00 And she-- 20:01 I gave one of those pies to David. 20:03 I hope he enjoyed as much as I did mine 20:05 and my wife fixed me this wonderful meal. 20:08 Guess this has something to do with hell, 20:10 really good or not I am getting to the point now 20:13 and I sat down to eat and here is the point. 20:17 I was so hungry I devoured it 20:20 which means when I was done there was nothing left. 20:25 Almost like the plate frame. 20:28 So that's an illustration for the word devoured. 20:31 What's that fun getting there? 20:34 Now the point I am making is this 20:36 one does not have to be a college graduate, 20:39 one does not have to spend years at seminary 20:43 to be able to understand the clear intent 20:47 and the clear meaning of these words 20:50 that we discovered in regards to the fate of the wicked, 20:53 consume, devoured destroyed. 20:56 Do you have to get out our Webster dictionary 20:59 to figure that out? 21:00 No. 21:02 Now, I know this is puzzling 21:05 because you know where I am going with this. 21:07 And yet all of us know that the traditional view about hell 21:10 that's being taught out there and almost every church 21:13 is the eternal hell of never ending fire. 21:17 But again, remember what we believe 21:19 and what we teach 21:21 must be in harmony with the Bible, right. 21:25 We agreed on that 21:27 and this subject is no different. 21:29 And so we want to settle that issue tonight 21:32 and we are not gonna do with just two or three texts. 21:34 We have got lot more texts 21:35 that we are gonna share with you. 21:37 This is indeed a real Bible study tonight. 21:40 And so I take you on-- 21:41 let's see chapter 20, 21:45 how did that page get turned. 21:46 I guess, because I was talking 21:48 and being so active up here but turn to Malachi 4, 21:51 the Old Testament page 678. 21:54 Last book of the Old Testament, 678 21:57 Malachi Chapter 4 21:59 and we want to look at-- 22:00 well, we are gonna begin with verse 1. 22:04 This is the book of course 22:05 just before the Book of Matthew. 22:08 And it's talking about 22:09 what is gonna be happening to the wicked. 22:12 In Malachi 4:1 it says 22:14 "For behold, the day is coming, 22:17 burning like a furnace, 22:18 and all the arrogant and" evil 22:20 "every evildoer will be" like what? 22:23 "They're going to be like chaff 22:25 and the day that is coming will set them ablaze, 22:27 says the Lord of hosts, 22:28 so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." 22:31 My friend, we are not spiritualizing 22:33 our way hell tonight. 22:35 Those fires are real. 22:38 They are real. 22:39 There is nothing in the Bible that would indicate 22:41 that this is to be understood symbolically 22:44 or that we just should kind of make spiritual, 22:47 you know, application 22:48 and just kind of cover it over. 22:51 Those fires are very real. 22:52 The wicked are like chaff, 22:54 that day is gonna set them ablaze 22:55 and will leave them neither root nor branch. 22:57 How many of you 22:59 ever took biology somewhere either high school or college? 23:04 Okay, biology 23:06 I don't know how it was for you I got it twice. 23:08 I took it in high school 23:10 and then when I was in college 23:13 we were required to have one, 23:14 science course as theology students 23:18 and I chose biology. 23:21 It was a full three-quarters 23:23 and I saved this basic one on one freshman course 23:28 biology course for my senior year. 23:32 In retrospect I should have known better 23:34 because I was taking it from the head of the department. 23:39 And I-- you know, I didn't always think about 23:41 those kinds of things, 23:42 you know, it really depends who is teaching at. 23:45 But let me tell you in the world of theology 23:47 it is primary the world have ideas. 23:50 You know, scientific fact and memorization 23:53 and all of that there is some 23:55 but it's not like the sciences. 23:59 So I tell you of all my senior courses 24:01 that freshman biology course was the toughest one, it was. 24:07 And it was good, though it was good 24:08 I loved the field trips. 24:10 Going out there and you know getting the specimens 24:12 or getting their scientific names. 24:14 That was really interesting 24:15 and pressing them in the book 24:16 turning the book in as a part of you grade. 24:18 You all went through that, didn't you? 24:19 The bird list-- the field work was really interesting, 24:22 interesting stuff to do. 24:24 And so I did pick up 24:26 something on those biology courses. 24:28 When it talks about the wicked being like chaff 24:30 and it's not going to leave them neither root nor branch, 24:34 that pretty much covers a plant. 24:36 The root system under the soil, 24:38 the branch system above the soil, 24:42 that's just not much left. 24:45 There is something left though as we look at verse 3. 24:49 It says "You will tread down the wicked, 24:51 for they will be" what? 24:53 What's the keyword here? 24:55 "Ashes under the soles of your feet on the day 24:58 which I am preparing, says the Lord of hosts." 25:01 And I have got a picture of ashes. 25:05 You didn't know we gonna have so much fun 25:07 talking about hell tonight, did you? 25:10 And it is good news about hell, ashes. 25:13 Whenever you take-- 25:15 I don't know what's the term, 25:18 whenever you take organic material 25:22 and you burn it up 25:24 the byproduct you will be left with is literally ashes. 25:28 And that's literally what the Bible indicates 25:30 is gonna be left. 25:32 I remember years ago 25:33 when my oldest son David was in elementary school 25:37 again Christian school and we were taking 25:39 and taking the kids picking them up. 25:42 And my wife told me 25:43 and she said, you know, there was this-- 25:45 they have been this new business. 25:46 They had--the building have been going up for sometime 25:49 and finally they got the sign out 25:50 and my oldest son inquisitive young boy as he was 25:56 happened to look at the sign. 25:57 And he had never seen this word before 25:59 in front of this building. 26:01 And so he was looking at this kind of absorbing 26:03 and return to my wife 26:05 and asked her the question. 26:07 He said "you know, why would anybody want to be creamed? 26:12 Creamed. 26:14 The word was cremation or crematory, cremation. 26:19 And he is so used trying to figure it out cream. 26:22 That's what he came up with. 26:24 And so my wife explained to him what it was all about, 26:28 you know, people got cremated there. 26:31 And you know when somebody is cremated 26:33 you get back his urn right with the ashes. 26:38 People get creative about this. 26:40 They will head off to the top 26:41 of Mount Hood, the Mount Rainier. 26:44 Let's spread the ashes around 26:45 or they'll hire a boat and they will go out to sea 26:48 or they will keep up on the fireplace mantle, 26:51 good old Uncle Joe, you know. 26:55 But literally that, you know, that's true. 26:57 That's what's left is what the Bible tells us. 27:01 Is ashes under the soles of our feet 27:03 is what the wicked will be on that day. 27:05 Look, take a look at Psalm 37 27:07 the Old Testament page 407, 407. 27:13 I guess we ought to add this to the list shouldn't 27:17 we since we are doing it 27:18 and that is the word ashes 27:21 because that's where we find. 27:23 So we are gonna turn to Psalm 37 27:25 and as you are looking as you get to Psalm 37, 27:29 I am going to interject this text 27:32 from the Book of Ezekiel. 27:34 So get the Psalm 37 27:36 because we want to turn to that immediately 27:39 in just a moment. 27:41 But somebody might ask the question 27:44 but doesn't the devil deserve to be in hell 27:46 for ever and ever? 27:48 If anybody ought to be there fore ever ought to be him. 27:52 Well, notice what the bible says 27:54 about the evil one Ezekiel 28:26-28, 29 27:59 where God says, "I will destroy thee O covering cherub, 28:04 from the midst of the stones of fire. 28:06 Therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, 28:09 it shall devour thee, 28:11 and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth 28:14 in the sight of all them that behold thee 28:18 and thou shalt be a terror, 28:20 and never shalt thou be any more." 28:26 What's that mean that last part? 28:29 Never shall thou be any more. 28:32 And my friend, the fate of the devil himself 28:34 is the faith of the wicked. 28:36 I think that's clear. 28:38 So what to be find? 28:39 Well, a number of terms 28:41 that we have already seen biblically. 28:42 He is gonna be destroyed. 28:45 Devour brought the ashes 28:47 as we have already noted 28:48 and for them where as I pointed out 28:50 the last text the last part of that text says 28:54 "that he will be no more." 28:57 That is he will cease to exist, right. 29:06 Okay, Psalm 37 I am gonna go right into that Psalm 37 29:09 and beginning with verse 9. 29:13 It says "For evildoers will be cut off, 29:16 but those who wait for the Lord, 29:17 they will inherit the land. 29:19 He had a little while 29:20 and the wicked man will be no more. 29:23 And you will look carefully for his place. 29:25 And there you will find him right in the anguish 29:28 and pain through the ages of eternity." 29:36 You will let me get away with that. 29:39 Now come on, I was testing you out. 29:42 I told you just last night don't you take anybodies word 29:45 no matter how slick, 29:47 no matter how educated they may seem to be, you know. 29:51 Okay, I steer my way to pass the course 29:55 but anyway remember next sides 29:57 don't let anybody to get away with that kind 29:59 of interpretation of the Bible. 30:00 Now that's Psalm what it says. 30:02 "You will look carefully for his place 30:04 and he will not be there." 30:06 Verse 20 "But the wicked will perish 30:11 and the enemies of the Lord will be like 30:13 the glory of the pasture. 30:15 They vanish like smoke." 30:18 Again whenever you burn up organic material 30:22 you got smoke and you end up with ashes. 30:24 They vanish is the word like smoke 30:28 they vanish away is what the Bible teaches. 30:33 And so let's add that to our list 30:35 they're going to be cut off. 30:37 Isaiah 53 in reference to the death of Jesus. 30:40 The term is he was cut off from the land of living 30:43 and so the reference to it death. 30:45 And the Bible says here there are going to perish. 30:48 The wicked will perish they're going to vanish. 30:51 That's what the Bible says. 30:53 And then Zephaniah 1:18 on the screen 30:56 it says "And all the earth 30:57 will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy, 31:01 for He will make" what kind of end? 31:04 "A complete end, indeed a terrifying one, 31:08 of all the inhabitants of the earth." 31:11 But a complete end it will be is what the Bible says. 31:16 And so we are gonna add that to the list. 31:18 Now you notice now 31:19 we've gone beyond the first two or three verses. 31:23 Now, we are adding verse after verse after verse. 31:26 Old Testament we are gonna find again 31:28 the New Testament is imperfect, 31:30 perfect agreement with what we are finding here. 31:33 In Romans 6 and looking at verse 23, 31:38 Romans 6:23 31:40 A text that most of us are pretty well familiar with. 31:43 And it reads this. 31:44 "For the wages of sin" is what? Death. 31:50 Death, death eternal torment in hell 31:54 is that the same or are they different. 31:58 Death is that dead-- 32:01 anyway I want to be thinking about this. 32:04 The wages of sin is death. 32:06 It goes on to say "but the free gift of God." Is what? 32:12 "Eternal life." 32:13 I got a question for you 32:15 who is it that gets eternal life? 32:18 Who is it? 32:21 God, do we all agree its God s people 32:23 that receive the gift of eternal life 32:25 through Jesus Christ our Lord. 32:27 How many of you would agree with that? 32:30 How many you think based on what we find in the Bible 32:33 that the wicked get eternal life? 32:36 May I see your hands. 32:39 You are sure about this. 32:42 You see the traditional teaching about hell 32:44 never ending suffering has given to the wicked eternal life, 32:50 Absolutely. 32:52 Yes under the most miserable of circumstances 32:54 but somehow miraculously 32:57 they have been given eternal life, have they not? 33:01 But my friend, that is contrary to what the text says. 33:05 The wages of sin is death. 33:07 The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord 33:10 and so I believe we ought to add the word "Death" up there. 33:14 How about you? 33:16 It seems concessive with every other word 33:18 that we found in the Bible. 33:20 It surely does. 33:21 So at this point having gone through so many texts 33:25 I would imagine we are to at least be 33:28 asking ourselves a question, 33:29 if indeed the Bible is so clear about this as we have seen 33:33 in the passages up to this point 33:35 then how is it that we find that much 33:39 in the most of the Christian world 33:41 is teaching how as an eternal place of torment. 33:46 What's going on? 33:48 I have two observations to make. 33:51 Number one, in general 33:53 we really are not studying the Bibles 33:55 close on some of these issues as we really are to be doing. 33:59 We were taught this, 34:01 we heard this being preached in the church 34:05 but in reality probably most of us 34:09 have never really actually got down into the nitty-gritty 34:12 of what the Bible actually states about these things. 34:16 Yes, certainly a casual, 34:18 casual look at this thing of hell the first text 34:21 for instance that I share with you, 34:23 "They shall be in torment forever and ever." 34:26 Just and so for our consideration that in isolation 34:30 without considering the other text 34:31 I've referred to the fate of the wicked 34:33 would kind of lend itself to that idea. 34:35 But again we never take a text in isolation 34:39 that is not good biblical exegesis. 34:42 We get as much as we can out of the given text 34:45 but then as we had been doing in the meetings 34:47 we take all of the light and I mean we can't cover it all 34:50 even than an hour we take all of the light 34:53 and we put the whole picture together. 34:57 That's how we allow the Bible to interpret itself. 35:02 So there has been as careful 35:04 a consideration what the Bible actually teaches. 35:07 It's not been the only issue as you know. 35:10 The other thing is, if you begin with the wrong premise 35:17 you end up with the wrong conclusion 35:19 and that's exactly what's going on here. 35:22 The premise, the wrong premise, 35:25 the wrong premise is and most of the Christian world 35:27 does embrace this is that the soul is immortal 35:31 which means it is indestructible, 35:35 which means, that when the wicked are thrown 35:37 into the hell they're never going to die, 35:40 because their souls cannot die. 35:43 So wrong premise, wrong conclusion. 35:47 Right premise, right conclusion. 35:50 And what is the right premise? 35:52 The Bible teaches the soul will die. 35:56 Gave you two texts on that, 35:58 one in the Old Testament, one New Testament, Ezekiel 18, 36:01 the Old Testament page 600, 36:03 that's exactly 36:07 and its actually a pagan idea in addition, 36:11 you know, the immortality soul 36:12 came out of mysticism, paganism 36:15 and so it is with hell. 36:20 This traditional idea of hell really comes out of paganism. 36:24 Ezekiel 18:4 where God says "Behold, all souls are mine; 36:29 the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: 36:32 the soul who sins shall die." 36:37 That is not immortality. 36:39 Immortality comes to us through Jesus Christ 36:42 and is bestowed upon us 36:45 according to 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 36:49 at the resurrection morning 36:52 when this mortal shall put on the immortality. 36:55 Remember, that in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, 36:57 at the last trumpet the dead shall be raised 37:00 this corruptible must be put on the incorruptible, 37:03 this mortal must put on the immortal 37:05 and it says we shall be changed. 37:08 That all happens in the resurrection morning 37:10 that immortality is bestowed upon us. 37:13 We are not immortal beings, short of the coming of Jesus. 37:19 For if you notice even Christians do die, 37:24 the first death. 37:27 But as I said there is another statement that-- 37:31 there is more than that but I am gonna share one another 37:33 this one in the New Testament. 37:34 It is the statement of Jesus in this regard 37:39 and its Matthew 10:28 the New Testament page eight. 37:46 And by the way I guess we should add that to the list. 37:49 The soul is going to die. 37:51 Well, let's add the weight of evidence 37:54 from the statement of Jesus. 37:56 Okay, I hear you turning your Bibles 37:58 that is a beautiful sound. 38:01 And Jesus makes this statement right here. 38:03 Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those 38:06 who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; 38:09 but rather fear Him who is able 38:12 to destroy both soul and body" 38:16 where? "In hell." 38:20 And who made this statement? Jesus. 38:23 Both soul and body are gonna be 38:25 destroyed in hell is what He says. 38:27 You know, in the evangelical world 38:30 in the last some years 10-15 years 38:32 there has been a reexamination 38:35 and reconsideration on this traditional teaching about hell. 38:40 And there's been a couple of interesting 38:43 and fascinating books that have been produced 38:44 out of this new scholarship. 38:47 This was reported initially in the US news 38:49 and world report it is the book entitle, 38:53 Hell a Pagan Doctrine and this is what is says is Philip Hughes 38:58 who is the scholar that wrote this book. 39:02 And by the way Philip Hughes a long term scholar 39:06 in the area of theology thought it was time 39:10 for us to have an updated book on the issue of hell. 39:14 So he begins his research in the Bible. 39:19 And, you know, when you do research 39:20 you are supposed to put aside you preconceived ideas, right. 39:25 But he began to look at the text. 39:27 He began to line them up and he was taken back 39:33 by what he was beginning to find in the Bible 39:36 contrary to what he had understood and then taught. 39:40 And he finally wrote his book and this is what it says here. 39:43 And Philip Hughes argues that 39:45 "The traditional believe in the unending punishment 39:49 is linked to the erroneous belief 39:52 in the innate immortality of the soul. 39:54 A belief that he says that is based more on Plato 39:57 than on the Bible. 39:59 The immortality which the Christian is assured 40:01 is not inherent in himself." 40:03 As we have already noted it's bestowed at the coming of Jesus. 40:06 "Or in his soul but is bestowed by God" says Hughes. 40:12 Edward Fudge, additionally has been a recent scholar that 40:17 has revisited this whole issue 40:19 and again in the evangelical world. 40:22 And his book entitles the "Fire That Consumes" 40:26 and he writes "Eternal conscience torment 40:29 is either true or it is not. 40:31 God's word gives the only authoritative answers 40:36 and everyone said Amen. 40:39 Either it's in the Bible or it's not true." 40:45 It doesn't matter how many churches are teaching it 40:47 and it doesn't matter 40:48 how long that it has been taught 40:51 it's either biblical or it is not. 40:54 Do you know my friend, 40:55 when we decide 40:57 that we are going to sincerely go by 41:00 what the Bible teaches 41:01 and only what the Bible teaches 41:03 and we are willing to filter out some of these teachings 41:07 and practices that are out there based 41:09 on the clear teachings of scripture 41:11 it really makes it a lot easier. 41:14 But see some of this is embedded in us 41:16 because this is what we have always known. 41:18 This has been part of our past experience. 41:21 May be you have had a beloved pastor 41:22 that really could preach out hot message on hell 41:25 and you know we have got all of this history 41:27 and all of this history with the church may be 41:29 where you know we, 41:31 we've learned these things 41:32 from when we were just a little baby. 41:34 And may be we-- you know, may be we are even threatened. 41:37 You know, your better behave yourself. 41:40 You don't want to burn in hell for ever, do you? 41:43 That kind of stuff-- we heard all that of kind of stuff 41:45 you know growing up. 41:48 And so you know so we are sorting through 41:52 what was very familiar territory to us 41:54 and what we thought we clearly understood 41:57 and now we are here tonight. 41:59 And we got somebody up here opening Bible 42:02 we are going from text to text 42:03 and that's what not why we are here in here 42:06 and that's not what we are finding in the Bible. 42:10 And so, may be some of us in a little bit of dilemma. 42:14 So what is the real truth? 42:17 And my friend, we can say with that which is familiar 42:20 which we have grown accustomed to. 42:22 What we have believed or in the honesty 42:26 of our commitment to Jesus. 42:28 We can say hey, Lord Jesus, 42:30 I am still learner 42:31 and I am willing to on learn something 42:34 that I didn't get right the first around 42:37 because I value the truth. 42:40 I value what the Bible teaches. 42:43 And my friend, remember that's our first loyalty. 42:45 It's not to the church, 42:47 it's not to like the church teaches outside of the Bible 42:50 it's to what the Bible teaches. 42:52 Oh, anyway, I am preaching well, 42:55 I think it applies, doesn't it. 42:57 Now, anyway we got off on where he said 42:59 "God's word gives the only authoritative answers 43:03 we will rare on the traditionalist view." 43:06 Most of us were "We accepted it 43:09 because it was said to us on the Bible. 43:13 And more careful study has shown 43:15 that we were mistaken in that assumption." 43:19 And my friend, we have been mistaken 43:21 in the Christian world about this. 43:23 And this is not some side issue 43:24 this goes right to the heart of 43:26 what kind of God is that we serve anyway? 43:31 I mean anybody else that will put somebody 43:33 into the fires of hell 43:35 and keep them there without release 43:39 we will say-- 43:41 I mean that's torture, that's evil. 43:46 If anybody else had that capability 43:47 and did it, wouldn't we. 43:51 We've heard of all things 43:52 that people have done to torture people 43:53 but you know to me this would be the most awful of them all. 43:57 I was doing a series in Bozeman, Montana years ago, 44:02 and a young woman a Christian 44:03 that was coming mother, married, 44:05 her husband worked on a dairy farm in the area. 44:10 And I remember when we came to this subject 44:13 I was that bidding farewell to the people at the door 44:16 as I usually to do as they were leaving 44:18 and she came by and I could see 44:21 that she was in deep thought. 44:24 And so I entered in conversation with her 44:26 and she was-- 44:27 she was kind of struggling with this. 44:30 And so I begin to go through review remember 44:34 that text we looked that, 44:35 remember what it said. She said yeah. 44:36 I remember that and I saw that at that 44:39 and yet there was something there was something there. 44:42 And somehow as we were in the conversation 44:44 she began to recall the occasion of which 44:48 she made her initial commitment to Jesus. 44:52 She remembered it was a Sunday morning 44:53 she was in church 44:55 and she remembered 44:56 that the pastor on that occasion 44:58 was preaching on hell, 45:00 the traditionalist view. 45:04 Preaching on hell and then he made altar call. 45:08 And it was at that point she came forward 45:10 and gave her heart to Jesus. 45:12 When she recalled that that immediately 45:14 she saw what was going on she saw 45:16 that it was so wrapped in her initial response to Jesus 45:20 that that was an emotional issue for her. 45:24 And when she recognized 45:25 that she was able to let go of that 45:27 and accept what the Bible teaches. 45:29 And you know, I have found this often be true. 45:32 You cannot expect of individuals 45:34 and let me tell you those of us 45:36 we are all learners, right. 45:37 We are learning, I am still learning, 45:39 Gill still learning and you are still learning. 45:41 And I do know in the process 45:43 when we're relearning something 45:45 and particularly if it's fundamentally opposite 45:48 to what we have understood there is a process. 45:51 And sometimes there is an emotional side 45:52 to that process, right. 45:56 And so I want to recognize that. 45:58 Whatever it is whether it was the subject 45:59 that might happens when it you die on Friday night, 46:01 whether it's the Sabbath whatever, it is. 46:05 You know, recognize there's an emotional issue 46:08 there's a whole history 46:11 that we bring to the table 46:13 when we study these things. 46:14 We have to look at how is that history affect, 46:16 how I am considering what I am reading. 46:20 What emotions are playing into 46:22 what I am discovering in God's word? 46:25 And if we neglect, 46:26 I-- you know I had to be in the ministry for a while 46:28 before I understood that part of it. 46:30 I just thought just preach the word its there, 46:32 its clear people will see it, they will accept it. 46:36 But there's other side of it as I just mentioned. 46:40 So if you are processing this continue to process it 46:43 through keep looking what the Bible teaches 46:45 but start putting together you know what it is? 46:48 What isn't about it? 46:50 Let me share with you Matthew 13. 46:53 So does hell burned it right now? 46:54 Is it burning now, future? 46:57 The New Testament page 11, page 11, Matthew 13:37. 47:04 Matthew 13 47:07 and this is the parable, the wheat and tares. 47:10 So Jesus is explaining the parable here in verse 37. 47:14 And He said "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 47:18 and the field is the world; 47:20 and as for the good seed, 47:21 these are the sons of the kingdom; 47:23 and the tares are the sons of the evil one," 47:25 the wicked and the enemy 47:27 who sowed them is the devil, 47:29 and the harvest is the end of the age; 47:31 and the reapers are angels. 47:33 So just as the tares are gathered up 47:36 and burned with fire, 47:38 so shall it be 47:41 at the end of the age." 47:47 King James says "the end of the world." 47:49 When shall it be? 47:52 At the end, not now. 47:56 Again, wrong premise, wrong conclusion. 47:59 Believing in, if one believes in the immortality the soul 48:03 when one dies you got to put the soul somewhere. 48:06 And, you know, what you are gonna do 48:07 with the souls of the God's people, 48:08 you send them straight to heaven. 48:10 You know what you are gonna do with the souls of the wicked, 48:12 you're gonna send them straight down the hell. 48:15 In spite of the fact that as we see here 48:17 the Bible indicates hell does not burn until the end. 48:22 It's not now and if some of us have come 48:25 from a Roman Catholic background Episcopal, 48:29 you know orthodox this is kind of embedded 48:32 in our thinking this is pretty foundational 48:35 to our whole view of the after life 48:37 and what we could except the death 48:38 and everything else placed into it. 48:40 Let's add to it in Revelation 20, 48:42 the New Testament page 200, 48:44 page 200 Revelation 20 48:47 and we are gonna be looking verses 13-15. 48:49 Coming back to Revelation 20, remember, 48:51 we already taken note that the wicked are resurrected 48:56 at the end of the thousand years. 48:57 Satan, 48:58 you know, organizes them into this vast army 49:01 verse 9 says "they will go up against the city. 49:03 And fire comes down from heaven and devours them." 49:05 As we come to verse 13, through 15. 49:08 Remember Jesus said "They are going to be resurrected 49:11 for the purpose of judgment." 49:12 So there's got be judgment 49:13 somewhere in this process, right. 49:15 And this is what we find in verse 13 and onward. 49:18 " And the sea gave up the dead which were in it," 49:21 that's resurrection "And Hades." 49:25 That is the grave "gave up the dead 49:28 which were in them, and they were judged, 49:30 every one of them according to their deeds. 49:34 Then in death and Hades" grave " 49:36 where thrown into the lake of fire." 49:38 This is hell, we went through this on the millennium 49:41 I did not identify the lake of fire as hell. 49:43 But somebody here was asking the question 49:45 in regards to what's the lake of fire 49:47 and etcetera and I really put you all 49:49 because I was ready to talk about it. 49:51 I am tonight. 49:53 "Death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. 49:56 This is," How does the Bible describe the second death? 50:01 They die. 50:04 "The lake of fire. 50:05 And if anyone's name was not found 50:08 written in the book of life, 50:09 he was thrown into the lake of fire." 50:13 Is what it says. 50:15 It's at the end of the thousand years 50:17 after the wicked were resurrected 50:18 after their judgment. 50:20 And they died the second death. 50:21 They die. 50:23 Then verse-- forget the chapter division 50:26 go to the next verse 50:28 "Then I saw" John says 50:29 "a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven 50:32 and the first earth passed away." 50:35 How did that happen 50:37 that the first earth passed away? 50:40 Hell, the lake of fire consumed it and wicked. 50:45 And what does God do? He starts over a new. 50:50 He makes a new earth, right, 50:53 and he will populate that new earth. 50:55 Paradise restored, right. 50:57 God's people are gonna inhabit that place. 51:01 But see first earth is gone. 51:04 Is this fitting in little bit more, 51:05 does this make more sense? 51:08 Boy, it sure does, a lot more sense. 51:12 Isaiah 28:21 when it talks about this-- 51:16 what's going to happen to the wicked. 51:17 It says "For the Lord shall rise up 51:19 that He may do His work, 51:20 His strange work, and bring to pass His act, 51:23 His strange act." 51:24 But my friend, it does seems strange 51:26 because God we think of God as the one who creates 51:31 and the one who sustains life 51:33 not the one that eliminates life. 51:38 But my friend, sin has put God 51:40 into this predicament 51:42 and that is what's He gonna do 51:43 about this thing of evil 51:45 and in the end it's got to be eliminated, 51:47 and in the end it means 51:49 He gonna save His men as He can 51:51 either, again we are going to allow Jesus to bear our sins 51:57 and its consequence 51:58 or we'll have to bear it ourselves. 52:01 And by the way since we are talking about hell 52:03 and we are talking about the second death, 52:05 which of the two deaths 52:06 do you think Jesus died on the cross of cavalry, 52:08 the first or the second death? 52:11 That may be real new idea for you. 52:14 Second death, 52:17 because even Christians die the first death 52:20 which seems momentarily, just like a moment. 52:23 It's the second death we must die we must not die 52:26 because that is eternal. 52:28 It's what the Bible tells us. 52:29 So new heaven and the new earth 52:31 and then after creating a new heaven 52:33 and the new earth let's come on down to the Revelation 21:4. 52:37 Notice what it says. 52:38 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes, 52:41 and there shall be no more death, 52:43 nor sorrow, nor crying. 52:45 There shall be no more pain," What's the word? 52:49 "No more pain 52:51 for the former things have" what? 52:57 "Passed away." It's behind us. 53:00 And my friends, if there was a place of eternal torment 53:04 those words could not possibly true 53:06 because there would be pain there will be a lot of pain 53:11 but you see God makes it end of it. 53:13 Is that more consistent with His love? 53:16 A loving God. 53:19 Now listen 53:20 and you know we could talk about hell 53:21 in very and personal terms 53:22 but do you start thinking of your friends, 53:24 you start thinking of your family, 53:26 you start thinking somebody close 53:27 you that doesn't make it? 53:30 You think about them being in hell and you tell me 53:32 just do you know cerebral can you get about this think. 53:36 This gets close at home. 53:38 This is gonna be off of the lose 53:39 somebody yet alone to consider. 53:42 May be a parent or child or a dear friend, 53:45 a sister a brother to think about the fact 53:48 that they are gonna be in hell forever. 53:51 I mean that just makes you cringe, doesn't' it. 53:54 It absolutely does. 53:56 This is much, so much more consistent. 53:58 God makes a final end of it. 54:01 So whatever we discover God has declared in His word 54:04 that wicked are going to be consumed, 54:06 they are going to be destroyed. 54:08 They will experience eternal destructions 54:10 what the Bible tells us. 54:11 They are gonna be devoured 54:13 just time and time again they will be brought to ashes. 54:15 Be there will be no more there will be cut off, 54:18 they will perish, they will vanish, 54:21 they will be a complete end will be made of them 54:23 is what the Bible says. 54:24 They are gonna die. 54:26 In indeed the Bible teaches the soul itself is going to die. 54:29 It's gonna be destroyed. 54:30 My friend, the weight of evidence 54:32 is just overwhelmingly cleared 54:33 when you really get down to it. 54:36 Now I am into my conclusion. 54:38 So how does God feel about this? 54:41 We are very egocentric, you know, about issues. 54:45 We know always consider how God feels about this. 54:48 But you know this about the wicked. 54:51 They were His children too. 54:55 And it was for them that Jesus came to die. 54:58 Not just for those who accepted 55:00 but Jesus was sent to save them as well. 55:04 They had a choice in this. 55:07 And I want to tell you who loves them above all? 55:12 He does. 55:13 it says, 55:15 "The Lord is not willing that any should perish 55:17 but that all should come to repentance." 55:20 My friend He doesn't want to lose at one 55:22 but he will not compel, He will not force. 55:25 In Isaiah 55:7 he declares "let the wicked forsake his way 55:28 and young righteous man his thoughts 55:30 and let him return to the Lord 55:32 and he will have compassion on him. 55:34 And to our God for he will abundantly pardon." 55:37 My friend, you begin to get 55:38 the sense of the heartbeat of Jesus 55:40 of God in all of this, the longing, 55:42 beginning in the sense of the longing 55:44 in the heart of God, for His lost children. 55:50 you see it so clearly. 55:53 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God, 55:56 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, 55:59 but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live." 56:04 Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. 56:07 Why then will you die," 56:12 And then john 3:16 that we will say all the time. 56:15 "For God so loved the world, 56:17 that He gave His only begotten Son, 56:18 that whosoever believeth in Him, 56:20 should not perish, but have everlasting life." 56:26 My friend, He paid the ultimate price 56:27 so that we could be saved 56:29 for the consequences of our sin. 56:34 And that's why time goes on. 56:36 He is still in the business of saving. 56:39 You know, what I am sharing with you tonight 56:41 for the God's word is the hardest hell 56:44 that you have ever heard preached. 56:46 The traditionalist view on hell 56:48 preaches a hell that is not hard enough to destroy the wicked. 56:53 But I am telling you the hell 56:54 that the Bible teaches is hard enough 56:57 that it does destroy the wicked 57:00 and makes an end of it. 57:03 And again, I believe if we're among God's people 57:06 when this all comes down 57:09 my friend, I believe we are gonna see tears 57:12 coursing down to the cheeks of Jesus. 57:15 I think He is gonna be weeping over that. 57:19 You noticed in verse 4 57:23 where it says "He will wipe all tears from their eyes." 57:25 It's after all of this has happened 57:28 that He will wipe the tears from our eyes. 57:31 Like a child that's been comforted by parent 57:34 when they are grieving, 57:35 God is going to comfort his people 57:38 because we too have experienced loses 57:40 in all of this. 57:43 And He will comfort us 57:45 and He is gonna make everything all right. 57:47 It's gonna be all right, my friend. 57:49 God has a plan, it's a plan of love. 57:53 He is doing everything He can, 57:55 and all we have to say is, yes Lord. 57:59 We want to it Your way, Your way. |
Revised 2014-12-17