Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), David Guerro, Paul Coneff, Christina Cecotto
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000002A
00:29 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:33 We are so thankful you came to our program today.
00:36 This is a program designed to help us
00:38 better understand mental health,
00:40 how we can experience healing off
00:43 from a biblical standpoint.
00:44 I've got a treatment team with me here today,
00:47 so thankful to have each one of you.
00:49 First, we have Paul Coneff from Texas.
00:52 Paul is a marriage and family therapist
00:55 and he runs a ministry called Straight to the Heart,
00:58 a prayer and discipleship ministry
00:59 called Straight to the Heart.
01:00 And through that ministry, he helps people through loss,
01:04 addiction, trauma,
01:07 using prayers that focus on the cross of Jesus.
01:11 It's an amazing unique program.
01:12 Very, very powerful.
01:14 So glad to have you here, Paul.
01:15 Also glad to have David Guerrero.
01:18 David is from Wisconsin
01:20 and David wears many hats.
01:22 He is a pastor, he is a chaplain,
01:24 he is a life coach
01:25 and he is a biblically certified counselor.
01:28 He also runs a ministry,
01:29 it's exhausting just talking about it,
01:32 called Rekindle the Flame,
01:33 and under that ministry, he conducts seminars
01:36 and does his counseling as well.
01:38 So glad to have you here at the program,
01:42 David, and we're welcoming also Nivischi Edwards,
01:47 Nivischi is from Tennessee.
01:49 Nivischi runs a virtual private practice.
01:52 Dr. Nivischi runs a virtual private practice
01:56 and she also teaches at Southern Adventist University.
01:59 She is an inspiring author, working on a book,
02:02 and she likes to work with people
02:04 on developing healthy relationships
02:06 including good relationship with themselves,
02:08 'cause after all,
02:09 we have a relationship with ourselves.
02:11 So, glad to have you here at the program, Nivischi.
02:15 This is my co-host Rob Davison, he's from the DC area.
02:19 Rob, conducts a private practice
02:22 and he works with families, couples and individuals
02:25 and he likes to focus... one of the things,
02:27 that I'm really happy about is that,
02:28 he likes to focus on
02:31 helping men develop servant leadership
02:33 and biblical manhood, and integrity,
02:36 and there is a big need for that today
02:38 for men mentoring men.
02:40 So, I'm really excited about that.
02:42 If you are interested in more information about
02:44 any of these individuals,
02:46 you can go to our website
02:48 which is amultitudeofcounselors.tv,
02:52 and you will find their contact information.
02:54 So welcome to the program, folks,
02:57 and I'm so glad that you're here.
02:59 Our topic today is Trauma.
03:01 We're gonna be talking about trauma.
03:03 The first thing we want to do is get a definition up for you,
03:06 so that you can understand, what are we talking about,
03:09 when we talk about trauma.
03:13 "A deeply distressing or disturbing experience."
03:17 Now, posttraumatic stress disorder,
03:20 sometimes called syndrome is a response
03:23 to a traumatic event.
03:24 And from what I understand of the traumatic event
03:28 is something that's life threatening,
03:29 but can it go beyond that,
03:31 because I know you've worked with the militarians,
03:33 so you've worked with lot of, what we called PTSDs,
03:35 isn't that right, Nivischi.
03:38 So can the trauma be caused by
03:40 not just a life threatening situation,
03:41 but also just a deeply,
03:44 emotionally disturbing situation
03:45 that isn't necessarily life threatening,
03:47 'cause we're trying...
03:49 You're absolutely correct. Absolutely correct, Jennifer.
03:50 Okay, so that's posttraumatic stress disorder
03:53 and so let me give me some of the markers
03:55 of what we call PTSD.
03:57 There are three basic signs where we see them.
04:00 We know a person is suffering with PTSD,
04:03 and they are nightmares,
04:06 the person revisiting that
04:07 traumatic experience in their sleep,
04:10 and then flashbacks,
04:11 revisiting that traumatic experience
04:13 during the day when they are awake.
04:15 And then extreme triggerability,
04:17 anytime the person is exposed to things
04:19 that remind them of that traumatic event,
04:21 they are brought...
04:23 they're back there,
04:24 they're reliving that experience.
04:25 So PTSD is very interesting,
04:28 Normal memory processing involves,
04:32 eventually the charge is taken out of that memory,
04:35 the emotional charge
04:37 so that we can remember it cognitively
04:39 without re-experiencing it.
04:40 You know, you guys have all had disturbing experiences,
04:42 and you can remember it sometimes down to the detail,
04:45 but you don't necessarily re-experience it
04:47 when you're relating it to someone.
04:49 But what happens with PTSD is that
04:50 processing of that memory goes arise somehow,
04:53 and the person keeps reliving it,
04:55 and it is thought that is the mind's attempt
04:58 to get it thoroughly processed.
05:00 So that's a definition,
05:02 what about the prevalence of PTSD?
05:06 Very high prevalence rate.
05:08 In the US about 7.8 percent lifetime prevalence,
05:12 that means that 7.8 percent of people
05:14 will in their lifetime experience
05:16 PTSD on some levels.
05:18 And women are roughly double the rate of men.
05:21 What about the cause?
05:23 Of course a traumatic event,
05:24 but if we want to look at it from a neurological standpoint,
05:27 we have a system in our brain called the limbic system,
05:30 it is fully the emotional part of the brain.
05:33 And when we experience a trauma,
05:35 most things are processed through the cerebral cortex,
05:39 the thinking part of the brain.
05:40 But a trauma will go directly
05:42 to the emotional part of the brain
05:44 and sometimes, really, literally
05:45 overload that part of the brain
05:47 such that a person's limbic system
05:50 gets affected by it,
05:51 and they can end up in a state of constant limbic arousal
05:55 or what we might call survival mode, right?
05:59 So that's the cause of prognosis,
06:02 very treatable.
06:03 I love to work with people through PTSD.
06:07 The three basic treatments
06:08 that I know of are talk therapy,
06:10 sometimes just relating their story
06:12 to another person is enough.
06:14 The human mind has this tremendous drive
06:17 to archive history,
06:19 that's why we have all this history books and stuff.
06:20 We want to hang on to our history,
06:22 sometimes just sharing it with another person
06:24 enables us to let go of it,
06:25 because we know, where we can find it.
06:27 The second treatment is deep relaxation
06:30 and sometimes prayer in the context of that
06:34 and reviewing the memories in that context.
06:36 And I think you probably do
06:37 something like that with your method
06:40 that you use, don't you?
06:41 Where you pray with people
06:42 and then you revisit the trauma in the context of praying.
06:46 We'll let you know,
06:47 what are those negative thoughts
06:49 that get in those neurological pathways
06:50 of our brain that created.
06:52 'Cause you hear a lot of noise and what does your brain do,
06:53 you are not aware of it, but you are thinking,
06:55 hey I'm back there in Afghanistan, you know,
06:57 could be a car back firing
06:58 but it's not a 4th of July firecracker.
07:01 It's life and death. Yeah.
07:02 So, as we take that into Jesus' story
07:05 where he was traumatized and we pray,
07:07 what we find is that they get healing
07:09 they can like you said,
07:10 they can think about the event,
07:12 but that charge is not there.
07:13 Has been taken out.
07:14 The other thing that's fascinating is
07:17 something called EMDR,
07:19 Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.
07:22 This was discovered by Francine Shapiro,
07:23 she is a woman.
07:25 She is walking through a park,
07:26 thinking about a traumatic event,
07:28 moving her eyes back and forth across the field of vision
07:30 and realize that because her eyes were moving,
07:32 it didn't bother her to think about it as much.
07:34 Then they realize that what was happening was her brain was,
07:38 what they call bilateralzing.
07:39 It was activating both hemispheres of the brain,
07:42 and they've come to the conclusion that
07:44 when the brain is activated on both sides like that,
07:47 it's better capable of processing.
07:50 So, they developed this system call EMDR
07:53 where they actually use probes
07:55 or the therapist will move their finger back and forth.
07:57 It looks like hypnosis, but it's not hypnosis
08:00 because it's not mind control,
08:02 that's the problem with hypnosis is mind control.
08:04 But it's actually very effective,
08:06 you know what I do,
08:07 so I just take people for walks and I say,
08:08 let's look at the beauties of nature,
08:10 let's oxygenate our brain with the fresh air
08:13 and let's talk through this difficult patch
08:15 in your life,
08:16 and a lot of times that does a trick.
08:18 So what else do you guys use too...
08:19 I know, you probably have a robust experience
08:21 in treating trauma, all of you do,
08:22 and that's why I wanted you on the show, so talk to me.
08:26 You know, there's two things that I think
08:27 that's very important here.
08:29 And, you know,
08:30 the first and it's like you were saying,
08:31 is to help the person find that sacred space.
08:34 And what I mean by that sacred space is that place
08:37 where they can come aside,
08:39 and in a sense we live the event,
08:43 and then seek the support that they need.
08:45 It's interesting that you talk about trauma
08:47 in the sense that we all experience something like it.
08:50 In 2005, you know, I lost my mother
08:53 and that was kind of traumatic for me,
08:55 and for me what helped
08:58 more than anything was not so much
09:00 people coming up to me and saying, I'm sorry,
09:02 but people giving me that space.
09:04 So that I could spend sometime alone thinking about the loss
09:08 and then in my own time
09:10 being able to reach out to some people
09:12 that I thought could support me through my loss
09:15 and just listen to me.
09:17 And so that I can work through that grief
09:19 and a post traumatic stress syndrome,
09:22 excuse me, is really, it's complicated grief.
09:27 I love that, that is so powerful.
09:28 So you said you appreciated them
09:31 leaving you and letting you
09:33 kind of work it out on your own,
09:35 and then when you were ready
09:36 approaching certain people that could help you in,
09:38 that you could talk through with,
09:39 that's beautiful.
09:41 That's really beautiful,
09:42 what else have you guys used, you know what methods?
09:44 We all experienced trauma,
09:45 and I think sometimes we don't realize
09:46 even when we were going through a traumatic experience,
09:48 that it is trauma,
09:50 that we are experiencing trauma
09:52 until sometimes after the event has occurred.
09:55 And what I do with clients often is sit with them
09:58 in their story,
10:00 allowing somebody to tell the story
10:03 of the traumatic experience they had.
10:06 Because often we find that they have not shared the pain,
10:10 the hurt,
10:11 the intensity of the experience they had,
10:15 and that's invaluable to allow someone
10:17 to share about their experience.
10:20 Usually relieves the traumatic event.
10:23 Do you find that sometimes people have this tendency to,
10:27 you know, to stuff it and ignore it,
10:28 instead of face it?
10:30 Especially when the trauma occurred
10:32 in dysfunctional system
10:34 that didn't allow them to have pain.
10:35 So in order, if the trauma was perpetrated
10:38 by people in that system,
10:39 for instance, sexual abuse as children,
10:41 it's a hush-hush situation, you can't say anything.
10:43 So that child never got to process that trauma
10:46 and a lot of times they have that sense of taboo.
10:49 And then, who wants to do that?
10:51 After have gone through trauma, who wants to talk about it?
10:54 I want to pretend that it didn't happened,
10:55 because it's easier, it's too painful,
10:58 it's too triggering.
10:59 So what I will do is sit with it,
11:01 sit on it and pretend it didn't happen.
11:04 And when we do not talk about the trauma,
11:06 what happens is,
11:07 there is something that stays inside of us
11:11 and the actual cells of our body
11:13 feel the trauma as well.
11:15 And so, if we are not able to release
11:17 what has happened to us,
11:19 it stays in us in the form of stress,
11:21 aches and pains, ulcers, headaches.
11:24 I had one client come to me and she said, she thought,
11:26 she was having a heart attack,
11:28 and what was actually happening,
11:29 she said her arms were numb and I said well,
11:33 have you been to the doctor?
11:34 And she said, no.
11:35 And I said, well, make sure after this session
11:37 that you go to the doctor and get checked out thoroughly.
11:40 She came back a week later said that...
11:42 everything was fine with her,
11:44 but the doctor said this is stress
11:46 and what did happen to her was,
11:48 there was emotional trauma happening on the job.
11:51 And it was manifesting itself in her body
11:53 and she didn't know what was going on.
11:54 And I just had to sit with her and hear her story,
11:57 because she had not gotten it out at all.
11:59 Body memory,
12:01 you talked about what she was experiencing.
12:03 We may pretend that we haven't experienced trauma.
12:05 We may stuff it, we may deny it,
12:07 but our body doesn't lie.
12:08 That's right.
12:10 Our body always reveals what's really going on
12:12 and that's a great example of that.
12:13 And that stress,
12:14 it's kind of like trying to hold
12:16 a beach ball under water,
12:17 you can do it for a little while.
12:19 That's true.
12:20 But it wants to come up,
12:21 and so that stress in our body
12:23 is its way of saying, it's time to release it,
12:25 to look at and sitting with someone,
12:27 giving them permission to tell their story
12:29 without judgment, just letting,
12:30 sometimes they will start
12:32 connecting the dots for themselves,
12:34 and realize that it was more traumatic than they realized.
12:38 And that connection of being with someone
12:40 who's gonna let them tell their story
12:42 can be very critical to creating safety
12:44 or like you said that's that sacred space
12:46 where they can begin processing...
12:49 Oh, I'm in a safe place, I can let down.
12:52 What about the notion
12:54 that we should not talk about the past, you know,
12:58 forgetting the things which lie behind and,
13:01 you know, reaching forth
13:02 and the things which are before,
13:04 press toward the mark, you know, the passage,
13:05 I've heard that quote...
13:07 You know, the interesting thing about that passage?
13:10 Is if you look in that context,
13:11 he's just told you everything he's left in the past.
13:12 Exactly. That's true.
13:14 And so, when I invite people to do and they tell me,
13:16 are you willing to tell me what you've left in the past?
13:18 And if they're in denial,
13:20 then guess what the answer's gonna be.
13:21 So if you reach scripture in context,
13:23 he is telling you, he was a Pharisee,
13:25 he was proud, he was self righteous,
13:26 he is telling you what God has put in the past.
13:29 That's right.
13:30 And people have gotten healing in wholeness.
13:31 They will use your testimony in a way they say...
13:33 They're not gonna give you
13:34 all the dirty details of the abuse or trauma.
13:36 But they're gonna say here's where I was,
13:38 here's what happened,
13:40 and here's how God brought me out of it,
13:41 and where he is bringing me to it.
13:43 This is how Paul was ready to move on,
13:44 because he said,
13:46 I can now forget it
13:47 because I just confessed this.
13:49 There you go.
13:50 And this is scriptural to confess is getting it out.
13:53 And when we confess to others, to God,
13:55 we're ready to...
13:56 When we face the pain, we're ready to move on.
13:58 Now, is there a point where some people overtalk?
14:02 It's just like food, you know, you can under process food
14:04 and try to live on raw broccoli,
14:06 or uncooked rice,
14:08 or you can overcook food,
14:10 you can over process it and make people sick that way.
14:12 So I feel the same way about
14:14 talking about thing as possible.
14:16 We're talking about people
14:17 that are terribly under processed,
14:19 but can people dwell to the point
14:21 where it's harmful to them?
14:22 What will be the motive for them sharing?
14:24 Are they sharing to connect
14:26 with other safe human beings to move through it,
14:28 or are they sharing
14:30 just to avoid dealing with the deeper issues?
14:32 Are they sharing
14:33 because they want self pity, you know,
14:35 they just want your attention,
14:36 and they're pretty much want to stay there
14:38 in that victim mindset.
14:39 That's great.
14:41 And so I think that the key here
14:42 for what I'm hearing is that
14:43 they could be stuck either way.
14:45 Stuck in...
14:46 Not talking about it
14:48 or stuck in talking too much about it
14:49 without really dealing with it.
14:50 And using scripture to avoid talking about it.
14:54 I mean, that's an important point is that
14:55 we can use scripture to avoid letting God work in heart.
14:58 So when God is always after our hearts
15:00 all the way through scripture.
15:03 And Jesus said, he came to heal the broken heart.
15:05 That's right.
15:06 Bind up their wounds.
15:08 So, it's identifying,
15:09 helping the person identifying where they're stuck.
15:10 Yes. Yes.
15:12 Okay. Amen.
15:13 So, Rob, would you read our presenting problem for today?
15:17 So we can all come together on that.
15:18 Thomas is a 38 year old white middle class married man,
15:22 who comes to therapy to talk through a difficult event
15:25 surrounding a health crisis in his family.
15:28 He is second of four children,
15:30 a four year old was recently diagnosed with epilepsy,
15:33 and will likely have to be on medication
15:35 for the rest of his life.
15:36 Thomas turned to his pastor,
15:38 who have just graduated from seminary
15:40 was writing a book about, why God allows suffering.
15:43 In an effort to give Thomas some answers,
15:45 he asked him to read one of the chapters.
15:47 Thomas received the impression from the chapter
15:50 that although God care deeply,
15:52 that He could not do anything to stop his son's epilepsy
15:55 or human suffering for that matter.
15:57 Since then Thomas has wondered, if God is in control at all,
16:03 has he been having night...
16:04 he has been having nightmares
16:05 about various disasters occurring,
16:07 and these nightmares began
16:09 when he read the pastor's chapter.
16:12 So what would you guys do in that situation?
16:14 How would you help this man, Thomas?
16:18 Obviously, there's a picture of God
16:20 that he has received
16:22 from reading the chapters in the book,
16:23 and so one of the questions
16:25 that I would have during the session,
16:26 one of the initial questions is,
16:28 what was it that was in that chapter?
16:30 And begin to share with me the things in the chapter
16:33 that has caused him to begin
16:35 to feel the way he does and if that causes his trauma.
16:38 Would you...
16:40 any other input on that?
16:42 What would you guys do?
16:43 No, that's a place to start
16:45 because he's got a God who cares deeply
16:47 but is powerless to stop anything.
16:50 And I would want to bring out that balance of, you know,
16:53 we live in a fallen world,
16:55 and that paradox of living in a fallen world
16:57 with a God that sovereign.
16:59 And there's a difference between
17:00 God allowing evil or suffering,
17:03 and God willing it.
17:04 Some people actually believe
17:05 everything that happens is God's will.
17:07 It's not God's will anybody gets raped today.
17:08 I work a lot of these victims, it's not God's will.
17:11 He didn't finagle things
17:12 and arrange things just for that to happen.
17:15 It was something he did allow
17:17 and some people have issue with that.
17:19 Why would God allow something,
17:21 and this is really where theodicy comes into counseling.
17:24 Because people's healing is
17:26 so bound up in their God concept,
17:28 how they see God,
17:29 and we have to try to get across to them,
17:32 the reality of who God is.
17:34 If we say to them, you know, well,
17:36 God couldn't do anything about it.
17:37 He loves you and he is compassionate,
17:39 he couldn't do any, it's an attempted fix
17:41 but it can actually cause another problem
17:44 which is a sense of chaos.
17:46 Well, this man reads about God and suffering
17:51 and he comes away with more symptoms.
17:54 They weren't there before.
17:56 So, I think an approach with him would be to find out
17:59 what his God concept looks like.
18:01 Who is God to you?
18:03 What is your relationship with God?
18:04 Who do you see God is?
18:06 How do you relate to God?
18:08 Do you agree with the picture that you have?
18:09 'Cause he may not agree.
18:13 But the individual,
18:14 because it was his pastor saying this,
18:16 the individual being inclined to differed with the pastor
18:19 because we tend to see religious leaders
18:21 as knowing more than we do about God,
18:24 and so that would be something
18:25 he'd have to wrestle with this art.
18:27 Maybe pastor isn't perfectly balanced in his presentation,
18:29 maybe he is working through something of his own.
18:32 You know, so.
18:33 If I got to know,
18:34 his picture of God and the negative thoughts,
18:36 negative issues that he sees as God, you know,
18:38 caring but being powerless.
18:43 Did Christ have those experiences?
18:44 Did he have a why question in his experience?
18:46 He sure did.
18:48 Jesus asked why?
18:49 And I tell people, you can ask why,
18:52 because Jesus is your example.
18:54 I've been told it's wrong to ask
18:56 why because your question is all
18:57 what you have got,
18:58 but I've got a Jesus in the cross asking why.
19:00 And I've got a Jesus according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 13,
19:03 who became powerless,
19:05 he became weak, when he was crucified.
19:07 He gave up that power
19:09 to experience that sense of powerless
19:11 that you and I feel when we can't stop
19:13 some of the bad things that happen.
19:15 When we have a child that's epileptic or has leukemia.
19:17 We don't have...
19:19 we go through this experience.
19:20 So we have a God who chose to give up power
19:22 to experience that sense of powerlessness,
19:24 weakness, helplessness, to identify with us.
19:25 That's right.
19:27 In empathy with us, that's right.
19:28 And speaking of trauma,
19:30 isn't the cross an incredible study of trauma?
19:33 Because here is Jesus on the cross
19:35 bearing the sins of the world as if they were his own.
19:38 And that's pressing down on his soul
19:40 which is as infinitely greater
19:42 than our souls as God is greater than us.
19:45 But still carrying that horrific trauma upon himself
19:49 and in the midst of that,
19:51 he says why have you forsaken me.
19:54 He knew the story of the plan of redemption.
19:56 He knew all the facts,
19:58 but he's not able to pull them up right now,
20:00 because his emotions are so overwhelming
20:02 that he just cries out from his gut,
20:05 why have you forsaken me?
20:06 And did he get an immediate response
20:08 to remove all those pain.
20:09 No, he didn't. No.
20:11 But ultimately...
20:12 And yeah,
20:14 he got God by praying
20:15 and bringing his question to God.
20:17 Guess what he got,
20:18 he stayed connected with God.
20:20 Yeah, and that's the key.
20:21 Pretty since everything truth, and safety,
20:23 and support through the darkness.
20:25 No, but what he did was he went to God, talk to God,
20:29 and kept that connection going.
20:31 How is he able to continue his trust in God,
20:35 even on the cross?
20:37 And I think, that is an important thing
20:38 to share with the individual.
20:41 How is Christ able to do that?
20:42 Well, he had this relationship with Christ.
20:44 Excuse me...
20:46 had this relationship with His father
20:48 that he ultimately played full confident,
20:52 his life in full confidence in the father saying,
20:55 okay, I'm in this suffering, I'm in this trauma,
20:58 but I'm gonna leave this in your hand
21:00 because you are the sovereign God
21:02 and you know best.
21:03 So he goes both, my God, my God,
21:05 why have you forsaken me?
21:06 And then like, David like you're saying,
21:08 into your hands, I commit my spirit,
21:09 so we see this faith in talking to God
21:12 when he doesn't seem present.
21:13 And then we see this surrendering to him
21:16 and trusting him in that situation.
21:20 Very powerful, very good stuff guys.
21:21 I really appreciate it,
21:22 so you're going to do a recap of what we've covered
21:26 in this program so far.
21:28 So go ahead, Rob. Sure.
21:31 So pertaining to this case right here,
21:33 we are saying that,
21:35 we need to process
21:36 what this gentleman's picture of God is,
21:39 especially in relationship to Jesus on the cross.
21:43 And what Jesus went through on the cross
21:45 specifically was darkness, his pain, he could not,
21:49 he could not see the plan beyond what was happening.
21:53 There was just the darkness surrounding him.
21:55 So in a sense you're saying that
21:59 we can empathize with what Christ was going through
22:02 and God and Christ could empathize
22:05 what we're going through.
22:07 And in through that process
22:10 Jesus was staying connected to his father,
22:13 and he was trusting his father
22:14 even though he couldn't see the answers.
22:17 And so this helps this individual in particular
22:20 to begin to see that it's possible to trust in a God
22:26 without all of the answers.
22:28 Now, going back to the beginning,
22:29 we said that we need to find that sacred space
22:32 with individuals who are in trauma.
22:34 We need to give them
22:35 a chance to be able to speak their story
22:38 in a safe environment.
22:40 We've also talked about our bodies
22:43 that have they how did you put a body memory
22:47 and it keeps a pain inside of us somehow
22:51 that if we are not getting the trauma out,
22:53 if we're not sharing it,
22:54 it will be manifested in ways in our bodies...
22:55 If you don't stuff it.
22:57 Don't stuff it, exactly.
22:59 And so we talked about in Paul's case
23:01 how he actually confessed,
23:03 what he was going through in order
23:05 so that he could forget,
23:07 in order to move on with the future.
23:10 But so, it wasn't just denial of the past.
23:12 It was as you said in the chapter itself,
23:15 He put it all out there
23:17 and he was telling the whole church
23:18 and God himself,
23:19 what was going on, so that he can,
23:21 this was his way of dealing with his healing
23:24 so that he can move on.
23:25 Looking forward. Absolutely.
23:26 So we need to get people
23:29 who are suppressing trauma
23:32 to the place where they're talking about it.
23:34 And we need to help people that are over talking about it
23:37 to get to the place where they're
23:39 actually moving through it and capable of moving on.
23:42 Now, this is where counseling comes in.
23:45 Because counseling is kind of a lost art among Christians.
23:48 You know, we kind of have this attitude
23:50 that if you just pray enough and read the Bible enough,
23:52 things go away.
23:53 But it doesn't always work that way, does it?
23:55 Sometimes having a human being work through that with you
24:00 can help you actually see what God is really like,
24:03 how God regards a situation.
24:04 Can put another pair of eyes on the situation,
24:07 so that, that person can call out
24:10 some of the things are going wrong
24:12 in your process of dealing with trauma.
24:13 I think one of the challenges
24:15 that people may have with coming
24:16 to someone for counseling needs is the idea that well,
24:20 this is my stuff
24:21 and I don't want it to be known.
24:22 I don't wanna share it, I'm afraid to tell it.
24:25 And one of the benefits of counseling
24:26 and something that may give 'em confidence
24:29 and securities the fact that
24:30 confidentiality is a part of the counseling process.
24:32 That's right.
24:33 That counselors are bound where...
24:35 I like to say that we're secret keepers.
24:38 And that's what we'll do.
24:40 We hold, we stand with you in your pain.
24:43 We hold the pain,
24:45 we hold the story
24:47 and we walk with you through it.
24:48 Just this week I had someone...
24:51 Just as we get someone
24:53 apologize for talking in a session,
24:55 apologize for talking about another person,
24:57 where there is an abuse situation that went on,
24:59 and I said with a counselor
25:01 there is different set of rules.
25:02 You're allowed to talk about stuff 'cause it stays here.
25:05 It's not inclined to go out
25:08 as it would in a regular social situation.
25:10 And there is a lot of shame that can happen
25:12 with a lot of past trauma.
25:15 And so by us being able to be gentle with the client,
25:18 we can help them to be able to share,
25:23 and it's kind of takes a little bit away
25:27 from that shame element, when they're able to talk
25:29 and were able to extend grace and acceptance
25:31 and we're not, there is no judgment here,
25:33 there is condemnation.
25:34 It's an amazing process
25:36 that can happen like you're saying.
25:37 It's worth the investment,
25:39 people will often wish that it would just go away,
25:42 you know, that wanna put up a no fishing sign
25:44 and never pull it up again,
25:45 but then they find that the trauma keeps resurfacing
25:48 in body memory like you mentioned
25:50 or in various interactions they have with people
25:53 or they can't function well, or they can't sleep well,
25:55 and it doesn't just go away.
25:58 And so if you're in that situation
26:00 and you're struggling with the effects of trauma,
26:03 I would recommend that you seek out counseling.
26:06 It's been proven to help,
26:09 a good Christian counselor
26:11 can really help you see God better
26:13 and really ultimately put you in a position
26:16 where you're better able to connect with God,
26:18 so that you don't have to rely on that counselor forever.
26:22 So you know, I would encourage you,
26:24 if you're someone who has wrestled with trauma
26:26 or you know people
26:27 that have connect with a good Christian counselor
26:30 and try to move through that
26:31 because it's entirely possible.
26:33 And the Lord has told us, "fear not for I'm with you,
26:38 be not dismayed for I'm your God.
26:41 I will strengthen you, I will help you
26:43 and I will uphold you with my right hand."
26:47 God is by our side
26:49 and I believe that when I'm counseling people,
26:50 He's right in that session
26:52 along side of me with that person
26:54 through his Holy Spirit, guiding the process.
26:56 In fact, I always pray with my clients
26:59 and I ask the Holy Spirit to guide the process
27:01 and we pray at the end of the session as well.
27:03 Jen, thank you so much
27:06 for mentioning about the Holy Spirit,
27:07 because we as Christian counselors,
27:09 we have to be in tune with the Holy Spirit
27:12 before we come into session.
27:14 We have to be abiding with Jesus
27:16 before we get into that session,
27:18 so that we can be in tune with the spirit
27:20 and we can invite the spirit with each and every sessions.
27:22 Powerful statement.
27:24 Yes indeed.
27:25 So as we running out of time now,
27:28 we just want to thank our panel here
27:30 for wonderful comments on trauma,
27:32 and we just want to invite everybody
27:34 to come back again for a next program on,
27:41 We look at more mental health issues,
27:44 more solutions to the common things
27:47 that plague us emotionally
27:49 and relationally in our everyday lives.
27:52 Join us for the next program of A Multitude of Counselors.