Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Paul Coneff, Shelly Wiggins, Christina Cocotto
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000006A
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00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:30 I am Jennifer Jill Schwirzer, and our program is dedicated 00:34 to helping us all understand mental health better, 00:37 and also seeing the path 00:38 to freedom, hope and healing in Jesus. 00:42 I'm sitting with my team, my treatment team today, 00:45 and I want to introduce them one by one to you. 00:47 First we have Paul Coneff, Paul's from Texas 00:51 and he is a marriage and family therapist. 00:54 He runs a ministry called Straight 2 the Heart, 00:56 it's a prayer and discipleship ministry 00:58 through which he helps people cope with loss, 01:01 suffering and addictions by pointing them to the cross 01:05 and leading them into an empathic relationship 01:07 with Jesus 01:08 as he goes through the closing scenes of his life, 01:10 it's a beautiful program, so impressed by it. 01:13 And I'm so thankful also to have Christina Cecotto. 01:17 She's from Georgia, 01:19 she is a licensed, you say it... 01:23 Mistress in social work 01:25 and she works at Wildwood Lifestyle Center 01:28 as a mental heath therapist and she is an amazing person 01:32 who loves to talk about lifestyle medicine, 01:35 we're gonna be covering some of that today. 01:36 So I'm excited about that. 01:38 We've got Shelly Wiggins, my home girl from Michigan, 01:42 and she is a great friend and a great counselor 01:45 and she has a practice called Driftwood Counseling 01:49 through which she treats couples, families, individuals, 01:53 focusing on anxiety, addictions, 01:56 abuse using both talk therapy and equine therapy 01:59 or therapy with horses. 02:00 So unique and so special. 02:02 And we have my co-host Rob Davidson, 02:06 he works with me in Abide Counseling Network. 02:10 He has a private practice and he works with families, 02:13 couples, individuals. 02:15 He likes to coach men in servant leadership 02:19 and biblical manhood and integrity 02:21 and so that is so needed, 02:22 and I'm so glad you are here. 02:24 We've got a wonderful topic and a very broad topic today 02:27 and a lot to share about it, our topic is anxiety. 02:30 Anxiety, many people suffer with anxiety. 02:33 In fact, anxiety is the most common mental health diagnosis, 02:37 if we consider the entire cluster. 02:38 So let's first consider a definition of anxiety. 02:42 Anxiety is a feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease, 02:46 typically about an imminent event 02:49 or something with an uncertain outcome. 02:52 So let's also look at anxiety disorder types, 02:56 so that we can get an idea 02:58 of how this is a cluster of disorders. 03:01 The most common types 03:04 of anxiety diagnosis are specific phobia, 03:07 isn't that interesting? 03:09 And that would be an extreme fear of something for instance 03:12 like spiders, or snakes, or bridges 03:15 and Christina likes to deal 03:17 with that kind of issue, don't you? 03:19 And the second most common 03:21 anxiety diagnosis is social phobia, 03:24 and social phobia is just what we might consider 03:27 extreme shyness or fear of social interactions, 03:30 it's very common diagnosis. 03:32 What about the prevalence? 03:33 Well, if you consider 03:35 all of these different diagnoses, 03:36 the prevalence is almost up to 20 percent 03:39 lifetime prevalence rate in the US 03:42 that's really, really high. 03:44 And women, guess what? 03:45 Are more often diagnosed with anxiety than men. 03:48 Women tend to have more delicate nervous system's 03:50 and more often suffer from mood disorders 03:53 and anxiety disorders. 03:55 What about the causes of anxiety? 03:58 These things seem to come from again a mixture of nature, 04:01 nurture, and sometimes current triggering life situations, 04:06 if you found that to be true, 04:07 that sometimes something's going on 04:09 and someone's life is just putting them on edge 04:10 and it just makes the water overflow so to speak 04:14 if they were carrying a cup and it was right up to the top. 04:17 What's going on neurologically with anxiety 04:20 is quite interesting. 04:21 What we have is basically a dance 04:23 between the parasympathetic 04:24 and the sympathetic nervous systems. 04:27 The sympathetic nervous system 04:29 is the fight or flight response, 04:30 the arousal response 04:32 and that brings with a number of 04:34 different physiological responses 04:36 like dilated pupils 04:37 and more blood flow in the extremities 04:39 and shut down digestion and so forth. 04:41 We call that the fight or flight response, 04:43 that's the sympathetic nervous system. 04:45 Then you have a parasympathetic nervous system 04:48 which is the feed, breed and rest system 04:51 which enables our sympathetic response 04:53 to calm down, so people can relax. 04:56 We were designed to be most of the time 04:59 in the parasympathetic state, resting. 05:02 And then once in a while, sort of ramped up 05:06 to the sympathetic nervous system, arousal state, 05:08 so that we could deal with the threat of some kind. 05:11 Unfortunately some of us get ramped up and stay there, 05:15 and then what happens 05:17 is the sympathetic nervous system 05:18 and every system in the brain or the body 05:20 can get overworked, can't it? 05:22 And so if the sympathetic nervous system is overworked, 05:25 it will get worn out after a time 05:27 and then people can be left 05:29 with the legacy of difficulty as a result. 05:31 But as always the prognosis is what? 05:33 Hope. 05:35 The prognosis is good, because Jesus can heal us 05:38 and there are ways to get pass these things. 05:40 What are some of the treatments? 05:41 Well, the treatment would include lifestyle, 05:43 we're gonna be talking about that in a moment. 05:45 I always teach my anxiety clients, breathing, 05:49 how about you guys? 05:50 Yeah. 05:51 Breathing is just standard anxiety treatment. 05:53 What happens with sympathetic nervous system arousals, 05:55 we start to naturally breathe shallow and fast, 06:00 and what we do is we teach people 06:01 how to then slow their breathing down 06:03 and breathe deep 06:05 and that actually tricks the limbic brain 06:07 into believing that there everything is okay. 06:10 Everything's okay now, I'm breathing deep 06:12 and that's how that works, it creates a feedback loop 06:14 that convinces the mind that everything is fine. 06:18 Sometimes social support can be very helpful in anxiety. 06:21 Also sometimes people need medication, 06:24 but I like to try herbs 06:25 and supplements and lifestyle changes. 06:27 First, we like the least impact possible 06:30 in treating any disorder 06:33 we want to not create side effects, 06:35 we don't have to create, 06:36 and most of the lifestyle changes 06:37 don't have any side effects. 06:39 Or I would say, I should say all of them. 06:41 Standard treatment for anxiety 06:43 is cognitive behavioral therapy. 06:44 Cognitive behavioral therapy is simply controlling 06:47 the thought life and it works kind of like this, 06:49 you have live event and then you have feelings 06:51 that arise out of that event, 06:54 and you would think that there would be 06:56 a direct line between the two 06:57 but actually there's something in the middle 06:58 called cognitive processing which is the way we think 07:02 about that life event which ultimately determines 07:04 how we feel about that life event. 07:08 So we have the privilege as beings 07:10 made in the image of God to think through things 07:12 and reframe them if we so choose to do so. 07:15 Jesus himself was a great reframer. 07:18 He said when you're persecuted be depressed, right? 07:20 No, he said when you're persecuted, rejoice 07:23 because great is your reward in heaven. 07:25 You just put a new frame on that thing 07:26 and completely transform the way we feel about it. 07:29 So cognitive behavioral therapy 07:30 is standard treatment for anxiety 07:32 because when people change their thoughts, 07:34 they change the way they feel, but Paul likes to bring out 07:37 that we don't change our own thoughts, 07:39 we receive those new thoughts from Jesus 07:42 and I'm much comfortable with that as well, 07:44 otherwise we basically have humanism, don't we? 07:46 So I want to talk though about lifestyle and medicine, 07:49 and I know you work Christina at Wildwood Lifestyle Center. 07:53 Tell us some of the things that you use for anxiety 07:55 with your clients that come there? 07:58 Well, first I want to explain 08:00 that there is two laws of the mind. 08:02 There is the moral law 08:03 and then there is the natural law. 08:05 And so the natural laws 08:07 are simply the lifestyle changes, 08:08 the eight laws of heath. 08:10 The moral law has to do with the thoughts, 08:12 the feelings and the behavior. 08:14 So I'll a touch a little bit on the natural law, of course, 08:16 the eight laws of health are nutrition, exercise, water, 08:20 sunshine, temperance, air, rest and trusting in God. 08:24 And many times people, sometimes people will come in 08:27 and say, you know, I think I have a hormonal imbalance 08:30 and we don't, you know, we don't do any testing 08:32 to figure out whether they do or not 08:34 but simply by correcting vitamin deficiencies, 08:37 simply by them following the eight laws of health, 08:40 they can actually up their serotonin 08:42 and correct that hormonal imbalance 08:44 even if they were to have one. 08:46 That's amazing, so you don't have to do this 08:48 very detailed evaluation of the problem. 08:51 You basically try the remedy first 08:53 and see if that corrects the problem. 08:55 So can you give us some idea what the laws of health are? 08:58 Oh, I had mentioned just the eight laws of health, 09:01 the nutrition, exercise, water, sunshine, temperance, air, 09:05 rest and trusting in God. 09:07 And I want to talk about a quote just quickly here, 09:10 it says "Wrong habits of eating and drinking 09:12 leads to errors in thought and action." 09:14 Wow. 09:16 So we can see that simply from how we, 09:20 what we take into our bodies 09:21 that actually affects our thought life 09:23 and it affects our actions, 09:25 and so this is very critical to the Christian life. 09:28 So give me an example of how that would work. 09:29 Okay. 09:31 So we advocate for plant based diet 09:34 and primarily that's because of all the hormones 09:36 that are found in me and Jesus 09:38 and dairy products in general, 09:40 and we believe that tends to cause 09:43 difficulty managing their motions 09:45 due to all those toxins, 09:47 and I'm a case example actually. 09:49 Two years ago I became vegan and I noticed that when I did, 09:53 I had a lot more ability 09:54 to tolerate stress a lot easier, 09:57 and when that happened I thought, 09:58 "Man, it was never meant to be so difficult to be a Christian. 10:02 And, so I'm a case example of that, 10:05 but I can tell you just after patients go through the program 10:08 by the second day, 10:10 so I've only been able to see them maybe once 10:11 to take an assessment. 10:13 Many times they are already getting better 10:15 and some have even almost 10:17 had full recovery by the second day, 10:19 because of simply being in that support environment 10:23 and doing the different diet changes, 10:26 and being and having 10:28 that spiritual support in knowing 10:30 that they're gonna get help. 10:31 So you have therapeutic things 10:33 coming from all different directions. 10:34 You have a socially supportive environment, 10:37 you have a change of diet, 10:38 you have more exercise, more water. 10:41 There is a lot of things happening 10:42 and you're not always sure exactly what's working 10:44 but you just assume 10:46 because these are God's principles 10:47 that all of it's kind of working together 10:49 for the good of the person. 10:50 Right and hydrotherapy is also very big... 10:52 What is hydrotherapy? 10:54 So, hydrotherapy is a therapy done with water. 10:56 So I don't know if you've heard of contra showers, 11:00 Russian steam bath, 11:01 there is a hundred different types of... 11:02 How do you take a contra shower? 11:04 So, it looks, they call it the car wash. 11:07 It's basically a shower and it's got like, 11:11 I can't even remember, I think like six showerheads 11:13 and they shoot out in all different, 11:16 they're all positioned in different directions 11:17 so that they hit different areas of the body 11:20 and they go 30 seconds cold, 11:23 then three minutes hot and they switch off. 11:25 They do cold first? Probably not. 11:27 They do the hot water. 11:29 You could do this at home, 11:30 right, in your shower and just turn around... 11:32 You can, yeah. 11:33 And what that does is 11:35 that helps with the blood circulation. 11:36 Of course we need good blood supply to the brain, 11:38 to the mind, to be able to think appropriately. 11:40 So all these... 11:42 Christine, doesn't that increase the immune system? 11:43 Oh, yeah, certainly, 11:45 so it helps naturally with the physical body 11:47 and anything that helps the physical body 11:48 helps the mind as well. 11:49 So talk also about the vegan diet 11:52 and there is all this research now 11:53 about serotonin in the bowels, 11:55 you know and there is so much serotonin in the bowels, 11:57 and I kind of wonder if the higher fiber diet, 12:00 you know, just helps the bowels produce 12:02 some more appropriate amount of serotonin. 12:04 I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, 12:06 but do you know anything about that. 12:07 Well, I wish I had my alone nutritional chart up here, 12:10 um, I don't, but it does help 12:12 with different types of vitamins 12:15 and different things that are produced 12:18 with the nutrition, 12:19 serotonin is one of those things 12:21 that actually is more easily produced 12:24 with certain things in the diet. 12:25 And just for clarity purposes, 12:27 serotonin is one of the handful of neurotransmitters 12:30 that regulate our brain functions 12:33 and serotonin is the one that is the most involved 12:35 in keeping the mood stable and that is implicated 12:39 in both mood disorders and anxiety. 12:41 So you're saying that the diet 12:44 just brings about a higher level of serotonin. 12:47 Is there any research to that effect 12:48 where they measures serotonin... 12:50 Yes, there is a lot of research to that. 12:52 Yeah. 12:53 Are there are any other like do you find that walking people 12:55 outside in the bright sunshine can be helpful? 12:57 I find that is one of... that is very, very helpful. 13:01 In fact, exercise I find that is, 13:03 it's one of the things that helps the most. 13:07 In fact we had an exercise coach 13:08 that came to Wildwood, 13:10 and unfortunately she's not there anymore, 13:11 but when she came, I had a client who was, 13:15 who didn't want to live anymore. 13:17 And when she came, 13:19 she came actually at the end of the week 13:21 and it was over the weekend and I came back on Monday 13:23 and I spoke with the client and they... 13:26 We had our session and I said, I had given her some homework 13:29 to be thinking about her thoughts 13:31 and to be evaluating them, 13:33 and she said, Christina, she was just laughing 13:36 and joking with me and I'm like what happened. 13:38 And she told me, 13:40 "All my thoughts were imaginary." 13:41 And I said, "How did you come to that conclusion?" 13:43 She is like, "I think I just needed to exercise." 13:46 So simply by that exercise coach 13:48 encouraging her to do the right exercises for her, 13:54 she was able to think more clearly, 13:55 so really clearing up that frontal lobe, 13:57 it helps a lot. 13:59 I find that my counseling, 14:00 it's a lot easier to get through the people 14:02 when they are having their frontal lobe more clear 14:05 due to the nutrition, the exercise and you name it. 14:08 I had a really tragic interpersonal experience 14:11 about 10 years ago and I was down for the count, 14:13 I was already in the counseling field, 14:14 so I'm like the counselor with depression, you know, 14:17 and feel like kind of bad about that anyway. 14:18 I tried all kinds of things 14:20 and I just couldn't seem to get past it. 14:23 I decided I would get up in the morning 14:25 and do my exercise, running etcetera 14:28 in the morning as the sun was rising, 14:30 and that bright light exposure in the morning 14:32 just revolutionized my brain chemistry 14:34 and I could feel my mood coming back, 14:35 that was amazing. 14:36 Right. Yeah. 14:38 Have really unique alarm clocks now that actually start to like 14:43 the light starting in your room so if you need more... 14:47 If you live in Alaska or some really dark place, 14:50 I don't know if Alaska is that way 14:51 but some area of the world... 14:53 Or Michigan for at least eight months. 14:55 And there is light boxes too. 14:56 What's that? 14:58 There's light boxes that Wildwood uses. 15:00 You know, anxiety really does affect the way we sleep, 15:03 and most of my clients 15:05 would present with the sleeping difficulties 15:07 especially those with anxiety. 15:09 Right. 15:10 So I've developed a relaxation bullet point sheet 15:12 with just these things that you're mentioning, 15:14 the eight laws of health 15:15 to make sure that they have this 15:17 right in front of them, 15:18 and then I moved down to lifestyle changes, 15:19 little adjustments here and there, 15:21 recreation that's very important. 15:23 And then I move on to the spiritual 15:24 which we'll get into, 15:26 but they have all of these bullet points 15:27 in terms of how to start to relax 15:29 especially before bedtime which so, so important. 15:32 So having a sleep hygiene, yeah. 15:34 Sleep hygiene.. Yeah, 15:35 I heard Dr. Nedley say get up early in the morning, 15:39 and get that light exposure and it turns, 15:41 it raises your serotonin level 15:43 and your serotonin turns into melatonin at night, 15:46 so it can affect both. 15:47 Well, let's go into the spiritual realm here 15:50 and let's talk about fear as a principle scripturally, 15:53 one of the things I've noticed in my studies recently 15:56 is that God doesn't have anything against fear. 15:58 He talks about fearing God positively all the time. 16:02 It says not to be afraid, 16:03 but then he says fear God many times. 16:05 So I did little word study and I realize that 16:08 majority of times it says to fear God, 16:09 it uses the word Phobos. 16:11 Now, we are in the habit of saying, 16:12 oh, that means reverence and it does. 16:14 But the word Phobos means like kind of phobia. 16:17 It just means nervous system arousal. 16:19 So I think what God is saying is, 16:21 if you're gonna have a fight or flight response 16:22 have it toward me. 16:24 I should be your primary fear, 16:26 because after all I'm God and I'm Holy. 16:29 And that combination is a great threat to a sinner. 16:32 But that will grab your attention, 16:33 that's the purpose of fear is to focus your attention 16:36 'cause all the orifices of face open up, 16:38 you open up your eyes, everything, 16:40 your nostrils flare, 16:42 so you can take in more information. 16:43 You focus on that supposed threat 16:46 and you examine it. 16:48 And in God's case you examine it 16:50 and realize He is love and perfect love cast out fear. 16:55 You're tracking with me, you know what I'm saying. 16:57 Yeah. Yeah. 16:58 And it's beautiful that He says perfect love cast out fear. 17:01 We are not casting out to fear, we're not talking ourselves 17:03 how to try and not be afraid, 17:05 we are focusing on love, 17:07 and that sense of safety and comfort. 17:08 And again, if you're talking about 17:09 anxiety, fear, these are feelings. 17:11 There can be intense feelings, 17:13 you can kick it up to panic attacks 17:14 or you feel like 17:16 the whole world is closing over you, 17:17 and no one is attacking you, no one is hurting, 17:18 but you got to get out of the room. 17:20 So the various, 17:21 but if we can bring those thoughts to God 17:22 and the feelings, 17:24 both the thoughts and the feelings to God 17:25 and he starts ministering to us 17:26 and we have a lot more security and peace. 17:28 And scripture gives us story after story after story 17:33 of people going directly to God 17:34 with all our thoughts and feelings. 17:35 I love that. 17:37 No matter how negative we get. 17:38 Okay, you want to get into our presenting problem, Rob. 17:41 Oh, we're ready. 17:42 Thirty three year old Karen, 17:44 a middleclass white women living in the suburbs 17:47 has a stable marriage 17:48 and three elementary aged daughters. 17:50 She functions well in all aspects except for one. 17:54 She has become completely obsessed 17:55 with a high school friendship 17:57 that ended in what seems to be an irrepressible rift. 18:00 She wishes she could simply lead this rift behind, 18:04 but her ex-friend works at the coffee shop 18:06 where her husband manages and runs in her social circles. 18:10 Being from a small town 18:11 and countering the ex-friend in conversation 18:13 and in person is unavoidable. 18:15 Yet, Karen feels terrorized 18:18 by the ex-friend's criticisms of her, 18:20 and worries that she will poison others views of her. 18:24 Karen feels overwhelmed with anxiety 18:26 and is at times unable to sleep or function well. 18:29 You know, what comes to me from this 18:31 is that we are created in the image of relational God, 18:34 and relationships are like a life and death issue. 18:37 And when a very close relationship develops a rift, 18:40 it can be life shattering. 18:42 You know, it can be a really... 18:43 Someone might say, oh, what's this big deal, 18:45 you had up issue with the friend 18:46 and you're not friends anymore, get past it, 18:48 but I don't say that to people 18:50 because I know how important relationships are. 18:52 So what would you guys do to help this poor individual? 18:57 I guess, I would ask a few more questions 18:59 and try and draw out the sources and triggers. 19:02 You know the specific sources and triggers for her. 19:05 What was she saying to herself, kind of? 19:07 Right, and for her to become aware of them 19:10 when they're happening 19:11 and then give her some specific things 19:14 to try in the moment. 19:16 The other thing, 19:17 I would just wanna kind of go back to exercise, 19:19 Christina, as you were bringing up 19:21 the whole concept of how exercise can, 19:24 like help dissipate anxiety, 19:27 even the stuff that's in storage. 19:29 So I mean, I would highly recommend 19:31 that she get an exercise program going 19:35 because then that extra built up anxiety... 19:39 That calling means literally, 19:41 I mean the body you can own, 19:43 the best way to release stress hormones is exercise. 19:47 Yeah. 19:48 So if she is doing more exercise 19:50 prior to these encounters, 19:52 it sort of like taking the trash out once a day 19:55 instead of letting it over flow. 19:57 I love that, that's really, really great. 19:58 That's real practical too. 20:00 What would you say to her, Paul, 20:02 about the spiritual aspect of this? 20:03 Well, you know, 20:05 she seems to be consumed by this. 20:06 I mean, it's making her world anxiety 20:09 and fear makes her world very, very small. 20:11 Also you can think about is her, her ex-friend, 20:14 and how this is gonna impact her reputation. 20:15 So I would wanna look at like 20:17 Shelly said, what are those triggers, 20:18 what are those negative thoughts 20:19 she has about herself, worrying about her reputation 20:22 'cause that seems to be the core issue. 20:24 The core that she is worried about her reputation. 20:25 And those thoughts create all these negative feelings, 20:27 it's like a runaway train, 20:29 and so then I want to say, 20:30 you know, was Jesus ever tempted 20:32 in the areas worrying about his reputation 20:34 with people turning against him 20:37 because her story is this small, 20:38 that's consuming her. 20:40 We're not knocking her 20:42 but the more she worries about it, 20:43 the smaller her world gets. 20:45 Bringing in Jesus to her can expand it, 20:47 not only that Jesus gonna understand, 20:49 but now she can began to start looking at a bigger perspective 20:51 and then in those moments when she is triggered, 20:54 she can begin praying to God, 20:56 thanking God that Jesus has been there before her. 20:58 If she's struggling with exercise, 21:00 she can pray about 21:01 God giving her an exercise partner 21:03 or you know, what's gonna be the best environment 21:04 for her to have that exercise, 21:06 to navigate those lifestyle changes. 21:07 So she's... 21:09 we're bringing God into every aspect 21:10 of her thought process and decision making. 21:12 Amen. 21:13 One of the things that happens 21:15 when a very close relationship develops a rift 21:17 or becomes estranged is you start to doubt, 21:20 and I can speak from experience on this. 21:22 You doubt your ability 21:24 to have relationships in the future. 21:26 You think there are some kind of fatal flaw in my character. 21:29 Whenever I get close, that's gonna happen again, 21:32 and the same thing is gonna happen over, 21:34 and part of moving on for me in my situation was saying, 21:38 you know, it's true, 21:39 I have flaws in my character but so does everyone. 21:42 And I can learn from the past, and I can say, you know what, 21:45 I did do some things wrong and I'm gonna own that 21:47 but I'm not gonna own what isn't me, 21:48 I'm gonna make the best determination possible 21:50 and then I'm gonna move into the future 21:51 and I'm gonna try to do better next time. 21:53 And I think that would be a good message 21:55 to give to her is like, don't think that you have 21:58 some kind of fatal flaw that nobody else has. 22:01 It's part of the David and Solomon 22:03 is very angry people lying about him. 22:05 He says somebody he loves, somebody close to him, 22:07 and so in first part of the prayer he's very angry, 22:09 very bitter. 22:11 He's basically saying I'm in pain, 22:12 I suffer, God do you make him suffer, 22:13 you got lightning bolt in heaven. 22:15 He's real angry out there now. 22:16 Yeah, it's a very harsh, 22:18 it's one of the most hostile prayers, 22:19 you wouldn't want to, 22:20 musicians wouldn't want to sing it 22:22 as a pray song on Sabbath. 22:23 But halfway through so they get stuck, 22:25 he says Lord, you deal with me because you are merciful. 22:28 So he starts venting which is where we do it. 22:30 You know, I'm hurt 22:31 and here is what I feel about it, 22:32 but then he switches over and he says, 22:34 you know, you deal with me because You are merciful. 22:37 I am poor and needy, 22:38 and my heart is wounded within me. 22:40 So he goes from next to anger and venting to letting God 22:42 into that internal pain 22:44 and again like we've talked about another programs, 22:46 he starts shifting and ends up 22:47 praising God for being there with him. 22:49 I want to address that point of venting with God. 22:52 I think that's really important because I think a lot of times, 22:55 we develop these really proper prayers and we just... 22:58 I call them plight, sanitize, sterilize prayers. 23:01 They're terrible and then, 23:02 you know, you talk to your friends like 23:03 really down homage's just venting and whatever, 23:06 and then the light goes on one day 23:07 and you say why don't I talk to God this way, 23:09 because I could say anything to him. 23:12 Do you try to get people to really vent with God, 23:14 or do they get to that point. 23:16 You know, when they are struggling, 23:17 I'll open up the Bible like someone and I, 23:19 and I'll talk about this and they go, 23:20 well, that's angry, that's terrible, 23:21 it shouldn't be there. 23:23 Well, it was written under the inspiration of Holy Spirit. 23:24 So we're not saying his words are good, 23:25 his anger, desire for revenge is good. 23:27 What we are saying is 23:28 what's good is he is being honest with God. 23:30 And so I've had people tell me, this is the first time, 23:32 I've ever been given permission to be honest with God. 23:35 Now they can share heart to heart. 23:38 Not a nice church prayer, sterilize prayer 23:40 where they're telling God what he thinks, 23:42 what they think God wants to hear. 23:45 Now prayer becomes performance 23:46 where I'm trying to tell God what I think he wants to hear 23:49 instead of what's really in my heart, 23:50 and that's a big burden to carry. 23:52 So I love it when people looking at scripture 23:54 like David and others. 23:55 Elijah is depressed and says take my life. 23:58 I love it when scripture to get people permission 24:00 to have a relationship with God 24:02 and not only could handle these thoughts and feelings. 24:05 But he wants to be interacting with him, 24:07 he wants him talking to everybody. 24:08 And guess what, 24:09 he knows anyway so you might as well tell him, 24:11 you know, it's not like you can hide 24:12 anything from God. 24:14 So venting is not revealing to him, 24:16 something he doesn't already know. 24:17 And in this particular psalm, 24:19 he starts off with a negative feelings 24:20 'cause that's where he is. 24:22 But then he says deal with me. 24:23 Now, he is ready to look at his part 24:25 and he's asking God, what's my part in this pattern. 24:28 So there is a part for his personal growth, 24:30 and then he ends up back praising God. 24:32 I just feel a sense of relief 24:33 just as we're talking about being honest. 24:35 Don't you guys just feel like the sense of... 24:38 a God I can be honest with, wow! 24:40 And I think teaching clients how to forgive, 24:44 so that they can love is crucial. 24:46 And it goes right in with the spiritual peace. 24:49 You know, the question here would be 24:51 why is this person an ex-friend? 24:54 What happened? 24:55 You know, does she need to let go 24:57 of something that she did to this person 24:59 or does she need to forgive. 25:01 Lot of times people misunderstand, 25:03 they think that forgiveness means reconciliation 25:05 that they're gonna be friends again. 25:07 But there is freedom in the forgiveness 25:09 and then probably alleviate a lot of the anxiety. 25:11 As I understand, forgiveness can happen 25:13 apart from any kind of interaction 25:15 with the other person, if it needs to happen. 25:16 It's ideal if there can be an actual meaningful bestowal 25:21 of that forgiveness and repentance, 25:22 but it's not always possible you can still forgive a person, 25:25 Jesus did it. 25:27 Write the letter but don't send it. 25:28 And I think those are changing the perspective, as well. 25:33 I wanna just read a verse here that says, 25:35 Thou has caused men to write over our heads. 25:39 We went through fire and through water, 25:41 but that brought us out, us out into a wealthy place. 25:44 So knowing that it's going to end up for our good. 25:47 It's gonna bring us to a wealthy place, 25:49 that helps to put the perspective, 25:51 I mean the child in perspective 25:53 and that helps us to bear that child. 25:54 Powerful. 25:55 And that's why the prayer is important 25:57 because it's connecting us with God 25:59 and is letting God in. 26:00 He's expanding our story. 26:03 If God can give us that bigger perspective. 26:05 And I'll praise and say God what's your next step 26:07 in healing journey for them and ago. 26:09 Oh, I need to forgive. 26:10 In fact, now we know it's time God has told them, 26:12 okay, what are the steps God? 26:14 What needs to happen for this person 26:15 to forgive and move on? 26:17 We have just barely touched the iceberg on this subject. 26:20 But we've covered a lot of wonderful things. 26:22 In very shortly, let me just recap 26:25 a couple of the main points here. 26:27 You mentioned a couple of laws that are so important 26:29 that there is the moral and there is the natural. 26:31 And what we take into our bodies, 26:33 it really affects our thought life. 26:35 And we mentioned these wonderful therapies, 26:36 hydrotherapy. 26:38 We mentioned the eight laws that we... 26:40 natural laws that we need to pay attention to it. 26:42 Exercise is huge. 26:44 Fearing God, we talked about 26:45 how important that is in a healthy way. 26:48 And then there are the triggers of anxiety. 26:50 We have to know what our clients 26:52 are being triggered by 26:53 so that we can address these things. 26:55 And then we... 26:56 cognitive behavioral therapy is just that 26:59 but when we bring Jesus into the picture, 27:01 it is Christ centered cognitive behavioral therapy. 27:05 Venting with God, my goodness I had a client who... 27:09 I gave her permission to do that, 27:11 and she came back in the next session and said 27:13 thank you for that permission, 27:14 I feel better now and I know God was okay with that. 27:17 That's awesome. 27:19 Well, that Lord tells us in Psalm 34:4 27:22 we hear David, I think it is saying, 27:24 I sought the Lord, and He answered me, 27:27 and delivered me from all my fears. 27:30 God is powerful enough and he's compassionate enough 27:33 to deliver us from all of our fears, 27:35 our anxiety disorders included. 27:38 If you're struggling with an anxiety disorder 27:40 or someone you know 27:42 is really struggling with anxiety, 27:43 there is help for you, hope and help for you in Jesus 27:46 and also seek out a professional 27:48 or read a really good book on the topic. 27:51 There is a hope and there is a future for you. 27:54 Thank you for joining us on our program. 27:57 We'll see you next time on a Multitude of Counselors. |
Revised 2016-10-24