Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), David Guerrero, Christina Cecotto, Nivishi Edwards
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000009A
00:26 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:29 My name is Jennifer Jill Schwirzer,
00:31 and I'm so glad you joined us for our program today.
00:34 We are a program devoted
00:35 to helping raise awareness about mental health,
00:38 human psychology from a biblical standpoint,
00:41 and we like to also offer really practical, viable
00:45 and also spiritually grounded solutions
00:48 for some of the most difficult problems
00:50 that we face as human beings.
00:53 I have with me today a treatment team
00:55 and I would like to introduce them one by one.
00:57 First we have David Guerrero.
00:59 David is from Wisconsin
01:01 and David is so many things that makes me dizzy,
01:03 he is a pastor, he is a chaplain,
01:05 he is a life coach
01:07 and he's a biblically certified counselor.
01:10 He also runs a ministry called "Rekindle the Flame"
01:13 under which he does seminars.
01:15 And have you written a book yet?
01:16 Yes, I have.
01:18 Oh, he has written a book, okay.
01:19 A book on fatherhood.
01:20 A book on fatherhood?
01:22 It's called Fatherhood: Reclaiming Your God Given Role.
01:24 Reclaiming Your God Given Role, that's fabulous,
01:27 you have to send me a complimentary copy of that.
01:29 I will do that. Thank you.
01:31 And David likes to work with people
01:33 in a variety presentations
01:35 and he likes to help people communicate
01:37 and that's what we're gonna be talking about today.
01:39 We also have Christina Cecotto.
01:42 She is from Georgia.
01:44 And Christina is a licensed masters in social work.
01:48 She works at Wildwood Lifestyle Center
01:51 as a mental health counselor
01:53 and she loves to help people learn
01:55 healthy lifestyle practices
01:58 which in turn affects their mental health
02:01 and she also does counseling.
02:02 She likes to help people through things like
02:04 mood disorders, anxiety and phobias,
02:07 special little concentration there
02:09 and that's significant
02:10 because phobias are the most common anxiety diagnosis,
02:13 so great choice there,
02:15 Christina great to have you.
02:16 We also have Nivishi, Dr. Nivishi Edwards.
02:20 Dr. Nivishi is from Tennessee
02:24 where she conducts a virtual private practice.
02:28 And what does that mean, virtual private practice,
02:30 you mean you counsel via, you know...
02:33 Via the internet, Skype, Spacetime, Google Hangout.
02:38 Okay, and that's awesome just wanted to clarify that.
02:40 You also teach at Southern Adventist University,
02:43 and she's an inspiring author and a presenter,
02:46 and 'cause that's where I met at summer,
02:48 we were both presenting
02:49 and just an amazing all around person.
02:52 She is also interestingly enough single
02:54 and a marriage therapist.
02:56 So go figure, you know,
02:58 but she really does excel in helping coach people
03:02 through relationship issues
03:03 and we really appreciate your presence for today
03:06 because we're gonna be talking about communication,
03:07 so it's right up your alley.
03:08 Thank you.
03:10 And we also have my co-host, Rob Davidson.
03:12 Rob is from the DC area,
03:14 and Rob is a private practice counselor,
03:17 he likes to help with a variety of different things,
03:19 but one of the things he really focuses on is again
03:22 biblical manhood integrity
03:24 and servant leadership in helping coaching
03:27 and mentoring men in those kind of things,
03:29 so each one of you're so needed
03:31 and so welcome today on our program.
03:33 We're going to be talking about Miscommunication.
03:36 And that's not of a women, it a reality.
03:41 so let me define miscommunication.
03:44 Simply poor habits of transmitting thoughts
03:46 and feelings, fair enough.
03:48 But let's look at good communication
03:50 to better understand what is miscommunication?
03:53 Good communication is when the sender sends a message
03:58 and the receiver receives the message
04:00 and then gives feedback back to the sender,
04:03 effectively sending their own message of feedback
04:06 and that feedback loop,
04:08 positive feedback loop continues,
04:11 that's good communication.
04:13 But lot of things can go wrong with communication, can't they?
04:16 And you and I know that better than anyone,
04:19 so the prevalence of miscommunication is crazy.
04:24 I would say we're all still learning
04:26 how to be good communicators.
04:28 The cause in my experience is most often
04:31 absence of good communication habits in the family of origin
04:35 because we human beings learn by imitation.
04:38 And we're like wet cement as we grow up
04:41 and we take the impress of the people around us
04:44 and we adopt the thinking
04:47 that we see modeled by them may not be articulated,
04:50 we're kind of subverbal when we're children,
04:52 but we still take on the believe system
04:54 of those around us,
04:56 and we also mimic the behaviors
04:58 including the communication habits of those around us.
05:01 So that I see as the primary cause although there can be,
05:04 you know, traumatic or other kinds of brain injury
05:07 that interrupt a person's ability to listen and speak.
05:11 Prognosis, what do we usually say about prognosis?
05:15 That's good. Very good.
05:16 People can learn, can't they?
05:17 God has created us with tremendous resiliency
05:20 and the Holy Spirit comes in and empowers that resiliency.
05:22 We're created by God,
05:24 He knew that when we found ourselves
05:26 in this sinful context,
05:28 we would need the ability
05:29 to make a come back from damage.
05:32 He knew we would get damaged
05:33 but he also knew that it would be possible
05:35 to recover from that damage
05:37 and to learn new habits of functioning,
05:40 a new habits of living.
05:43 We also want to look at treatments.
05:45 I would say some of the best treatments are seminars,
05:48 self help books, of course counseling,
05:51 because a counselor can sit down and say,
05:53 now what just happened here
05:55 and sort of get you to analyze what's wrong.
05:57 And I would just say practice, we need to practice,
06:00 and that's where role modeling comes in,
06:02 and we've talked about that before.
06:04 One of the things that
06:05 I see is a big cause of miscommunication is
06:07 we don't generally successfully or effectively
06:11 communicate our emotions.
06:13 We, yes, I think especially in western culture
06:16 we aren't that good at identifying our emotions,
06:22 and then communicating those emotions effectively.
06:25 And one of the things I do with my clients is I tell them
06:27 expand your emotional vocabulary,
06:30 and I'll give them what's called the feeling wheel,
06:33 and the feeling wheel is like a diagram
06:35 that shows all the different emotions
06:36 and all the different colors of emotion
06:39 we have as human beings.
06:40 And I get them to look at the words
06:42 that describe those feelings,
06:43 and start to learn to identify those,
06:45 because you know, we all have
06:46 this little part of our brain called the insula
06:48 install you know, and the hard drive so to speak.
06:51 God put it there but we don't always use it.
06:53 And that insula is responsible for what we call
06:55 interoceptive awareness which is self awareness.
06:58 The ability to read our own even physical state,
07:01 I'm hungry, I'm tired and our emotional state,
07:04 I feel my stress level rising, I'm starting to get angry,
07:08 so that interoceptive awareness is something we cultivate,
07:11 and then we can also cultivate the ability to communicate it
07:14 effectively to those around us,
07:16 so that we can start to connect
07:18 on an emotional level with people
07:20 which once you have an emotional bond,
07:22 there is desire to get along.
07:26 And so a lot of the miscommunication comes
07:28 because there is a lack of a bond
07:30 and then there is no good will there in that relationship,
07:34 so once you establish that goodwill,
07:35 then you have a desire to get a along
07:37 and more motivation
07:39 to communicate effectively, makes sense.
07:42 So what have you guys used with your clients
07:43 and what has worked for you in your lives
07:45 as you've learned
07:46 how to become great communicators
07:48 which I assume you have?
07:50 One of the first thing
07:52 I typically encourage clients to do
07:54 when they're having issues with miscommunication
07:56 and I think,
07:57 I teach this because it resonates with me personally,
08:00 something I learned
08:01 as a high schooler is with my high school guidance counselor.
08:05 And she taught me to do the, I feel, when you, I need.
08:10 So it's I feel, whatever.
08:12 When you, whatever.
08:15 I need, whatever.
08:17 And sometimes just having the opportunity
08:19 to talk with someone
08:21 and break down what's going on
08:23 in the emotional needs at that point.
08:25 Diminishes whatever feelings may be occurring
08:28 in the communication experience,
08:30 and then it enhances the opportunity to have
08:34 as you're talking about, Jennifer,
08:35 the bond that takes place.
08:37 An emotional bond. Yes.
08:38 And that's very powerful
08:41 because what we do at Rekindle Ministries
08:44 is we inspire hope through giving information
08:47 and some of the information is what you just said.
08:50 And what we usually do
08:51 and I know this may sound little frightening is
08:53 one of the first things that I'll tell them is,
08:55 did you know that 85 percent of marriages end up in divorce
08:58 because of lack of communication and...
09:00 That's very scary.
09:02 She said, it is scary.
09:04 But we move from there saying, well,
09:05 what is the cause of that?
09:07 And when you look at the world today,
09:08 and one question I asked him
09:10 growing up who told you how to communicate?
09:13 And there is that blank stare that you give me now.
09:15 And I'll say, when you were in school
09:17 who told you how to communicate?
09:18 You mean in terms of didactic.
09:19 Yes. Yeah.
09:21 And I said, when did you take a class of communication?
09:22 And they say, never.
09:23 And I say you know what?
09:25 I have my master degree and I never took a class on
09:26 being effective in communicating.
09:29 And I said, so there is hope
09:30 because today during this first session
09:33 we're gonna share with you,
09:34 how you can be effective in your communication
09:36 and turn this thing around.
09:38 I love that because it's occurred to me as well
09:41 that we train for our career,
09:44 and we spend thousands and thousands of dollars
09:47 and hours and hours of time,
09:49 but what ultimately determines our success as a human being
09:53 When you're on your death bed is it that oh, no,
09:56 I didn't accomplish enough or is that you know,
09:59 did I love and ones I love, did I forgive and did I...
10:02 that's what my dad cared about
10:04 as he was dying of cancer was his family.
10:06 And if only we sit people down
10:08 and teach them
10:09 how to communicate in the school system
10:11 that's where it should take place at least partially.
10:13 It's also important to remember
10:15 that we're always communicating.
10:17 All the times we think
10:19 communication only happens verbally,
10:20 but we...
10:21 Body language.
10:23 Body language is a form of communication.
10:24 How we say it.
10:27 and so it's important to remember
10:28 that even when we don't speak we're communicating
10:31 and the question for us to ask ourselves is
10:33 what are we communicating?
10:36 I don't know if anybody...
10:37 So what is a message that I'm sending.
10:39 Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yes.
10:40 Right, by what I'm saying,
10:42 I'm saying in my body language.
10:44 What is being communicated is well above 50 percent
10:46 through body language.
10:47 Well, above 50 percent. Yeah.
10:48 I don't if anybody remembers that percentage but...
10:51 Also go to a baby sometime
10:52 that doesn't understand words and go,
10:54 "You are the ugliest baby I've ever seen."
10:56 And they'll just feel like smiling
10:58 'cause they're looking at your facial expression.
11:00 Okay, so what you guys saying is that
11:02 developing communication skills is very crucial
11:05 for miscommunication.
11:08 Another thing I think that
11:10 causes miscommunication is all that noise
11:12 we have in our heads sometimes,
11:15 I think that we really need to identify
11:17 what thoughts are going on,
11:19 are we judging the other person's motives
11:20 for what they're saying
11:22 or we wanting to hear something
11:24 when we're actually not hearing that.
11:26 I think another thing too is cognitive distortions
11:30 which in other words we can call them thinking mistakes,
11:33 which may be, big one is mind reading,
11:35 so thinking okay, they don't like me
11:38 or interpreting the message in a incorrect way.
11:42 And also the deep core beliefs that each of us
11:45 have such as being unlovable, worthless, helpless
11:49 can causes to have a filter
11:52 which we allow owing that which we agree with
11:55 to come through that's in harmony with our belief
11:57 so it continues to strengthen our distorted thoughts
11:59 or distorted beliefs.
12:01 And you know that is what causes to conflict
12:05 because what you're thinking
12:06 and what I'm thinking may be different.
12:08 My values and your values may be different
12:10 and when we start to express them,
12:12 there comes the conflict.
12:14 Another major issue...
12:15 And then they come to miscommunication.
12:18 And that's why it's always good too
12:19 and I try to tell the people
12:21 I'm counseling that when one is done to say,
12:23 what did you hear me saying?
12:24 Absolutely. Yeah.
12:26 The speaker listener technique.
12:27 Yeah, yes.
12:29 Actually you know about that, I'm sure.
12:30 Absolutely, I love to use that, I love it.
12:32 What is it?
12:34 Okay, do you want to practice it?
12:35 Yeah, let's do it. Let's try.
12:37 So real quick, you know,
12:40 I woke up this morning and I was a bit anxious.
12:43 Okay, so what I hear you saying is
12:45 when you woke up this morning you felt anxious.
12:47 Yeah. Bit anxious.
12:49 Yeah, that's exactly how I was feeling.
12:51 And I wasn't sure what was gonna happen today.
12:53 And I'm not sure if I want it today to happen.
12:56 And so you weren't sure what was gonna happen today,
13:00 and you were not sure about that--
13:03 Would you say that again for me, please?
13:04 Yeah, not sure if I want it today to happen.
13:08 And you're saying you're not sure when you woke up,
13:11 you weren't sure if you want it today to happen.
13:12 So what's happening here is she's validating...
13:14 Reflecting back, what you're saying.
13:16 She's validating what I'm saying
13:18 and that's what I need as the speaker
13:20 but there is a lot more to it,
13:21 but that's just the tip of the iceberg.
13:23 And what some people do is this,
13:25 what do you mean you want to start your day?
13:29 Or they fix it immediately,
13:30 oh, don't be, don't be discouraged,
13:31 everything is fine.
13:33 And this is not the listener speaker technique.
13:34 Then you get up and pray this morning?
13:36 How come you?
13:37 Lot of judgment.
13:38 Then there is that what you're saying.
13:40 With couples if we can learn to practice this
13:41 which is getting them out of their comfort zones,
13:43 then they're able to start to hear one another
13:47 in ways that they haven't heard before.
13:50 It's refreshing to see it happen actually.
13:51 It's powerful if people are willing to do.
13:53 I have tried to coach people
13:55 through the speaker listener technique
13:57 and I've done it
13:58 and it's been amazing almost without exception
14:00 but there been a few cases I couldn't get them to do it.
14:03 It's like they couldn't get out of their
14:05 own subjective experience long enough
14:07 to receive the other person's.
14:09 I like what you're saying about the static in the mind,
14:12 and the preconceived ideas
14:14 we have in our schematic beliefs
14:17 that color our ability to take in one another person saying
14:21 almost like we sort of predestined them
14:23 to fit the mold of people in the past.
14:26 And I want to pursue that threat a little bit,
14:30 we call that in marriage counseling,
14:32 I don't if you guys label the same way
14:33 but I call it negative interpretation
14:37 where the one partner
14:39 may have every good intention toward their partner
14:42 but the other one interprets it negatively
14:45 over and over again
14:47 and what I want to bring out is that,
14:48 that's super frustrating.
14:50 I have clients that negatively interpret me
14:53 and I find it frustrating
14:54 and it really calls out my patience
14:55 and I have to realize that,
14:57 you know, they're struggling with something
14:59 but they haven't overcome yet
15:01 and they need to develop a new skill of receiving
15:03 what I'm actually saying
15:05 instead of taking it personally, you know.
15:07 Doesn't the scripture...
15:09 I'm sorry, oh, the scripture says
15:10 for us to assume positive intent.
15:13 Don't assume the wrong thing right off the bat.
15:14 Right, and something I notice too is we
15:16 sometimes with that example,
15:18 a person can't believe they won't believe
15:21 what you're saying even though you think,
15:22 this is for me only I can know.
15:25 What I mean so I'm telling you, yeah,
15:27 the other person won't believe what you mean,
15:29 and they won't take what you're saying as true.
15:32 And yeah, as far as I'm concerned
15:34 if I have a choice between believing good things
15:38 about what they're saying,
15:39 even though they might be saying something bad
15:40 and just being oblivious to their negative intent,
15:43 or assuming that being negative
15:45 when may be they're being positive.
15:47 I'd much rather err on the side of being oblivious.
15:50 'Cause I'd be happier. Yeah.
15:51 The technology I often used for that two of them,
15:54 I call it's Thinking, Thinking.
15:55 Yes, okay.
15:57 And the committee in my head.
15:59 So if I have a committee telling me all these things
16:01 that probably aren't true,
16:02 I need to work on dismissing that committee.
16:05 Wow. Okay.
16:06 And taking the person at face value
16:08 accepting them in the positive light
16:11 with which they come.
16:12 And if I have this Thinking, Thinking,
16:14 I need to turn that off as well.
16:16 And invite positivity.
16:18 And Jesus said as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
16:23 So as soon as you're done making your comment,
16:25 can you get into the presenting problem?
16:26 Oh, sure.
16:27 When you get right down to it,
16:29 when couples are talking together
16:30 and the emotion start to heat up a little bit,
16:31 we have to remember,
16:33 this person loves me and I love that person.
16:36 That is the underlying current
16:38 and we can get through this conflict
16:40 if we remember the big picture in the bottom line.
16:43 Yeah, love conquers all.
16:44 We're gonna be continuing a lot of this stuff,
16:46 when we talk about conflict resolution and anger,
16:49 so we've covered a lot of really ground here,
16:51 go ahead and get into that problem if you will.
16:53 Okay, presenting problem
16:54 Tina and Rodger are an older upper middle class
16:57 African-American couple
16:59 with a long established pattern of miscommunication
17:02 in their 38 year marriage.
17:04 Tina wishes Rodger would talk to her more
17:07 and Rodger interprets Tina's pushing
17:09 for more communication as criticism.
17:11 Tina feels abandoned
17:13 and Rodger feels that Tina finds him inadequate.
17:16 She says he doesn't love me.
17:18 He says, I'll never be good enough for her.
17:22 Tina has a group of lady friends at church
17:23 who engage in various missionary projects.
17:26 And Rodger loves his hobby
17:27 of building musical instruments.
17:29 In their 60s they've seen position to age to get together
17:33 in an unsatisfying if stable union.
17:37 Can you help Tina and Rodger to break free?
17:39 Okay, guys, what would you do?
17:42 What's the first thing,
17:43 what's first step would you take?
17:45 One of the things that I think is crucial.
17:47 I just want to read this
17:48 and then may be I can explain this little further.
17:50 It says the will of God is that his love
17:53 shall close the eyes, the ears, and the heart,
17:57 to all such provocations
17:58 and to all the suggestions with which Satan would fill them.
18:03 So I think a big part of this is,
18:07 of course there is many aspects of this,
18:09 but a big part of this is to be able to be filled completely
18:12 with the love of Christ.
18:14 So that our eyes, our ears,
18:16 and our heart is closed to all such provocations
18:20 and suggestions from Satan or any of that noise.
18:21 And so what are the provocations and suggestions
18:23 like, what are you saying are those
18:25 provocations and suggestions?
18:26 So any of the things that aren't true
18:29 that we might be telling ourselves
18:30 all that noise I was talking about earlier.
18:32 The assumptions we make about other people...
18:34 Exactly judging...
18:35 Without really knowing.
18:37 Judging other's motives,
18:38 that's spirit of let me justify myself
18:39 and I don't want to hear you.
18:41 And not coming together
18:42 to truly understand the other party.
18:44 But coming together to be able to justify self.
18:47 So you're saying we as individuals have a choice.
18:50 Communication involves two individuals
18:53 making choices to communicate effectively.
18:55 And we can, what is it, close our ears to all?
18:58 Close our ears, our eyes and our heart
19:01 to all such provocations and to all the suggestions
19:03 with which Satan would fill them,
19:05 so that way the couple can come together
19:08 and actually take them,
19:09 take what they're saying at face value as you said.
19:13 And you kind of have to forget the history,
19:14 'cause lot of times when you working with couples,
19:15 there is this huge legacy that you're dealing with.
19:19 And if you can get them to start over
19:21 and sort of like be willing to believe
19:24 that God can create a new thing here.
19:26 You know, that's half the battle at their,
19:28 'cause they tend to carry their baggage into the present.
19:32 With Tina and Rodger,
19:33 I wonder about their level of awareness
19:34 and I think it starts there with a desire to change
19:37 and have new skills and to learn new skills
19:39 and incorporate it into relational experience.
19:42 They have a system that's been working for them,
19:45 although it's an unhealthy system.
19:46 Yeah. It's been working.
19:48 They've been married for 38 years, and so.
19:50 It's stable.
19:52 Yes. Yeah.
19:53 And so if that is working for them,
19:55 and they desire nothing different,
19:57 they won't have anything more healthy.
20:01 So awareness and a desire for change
20:03 would need to be first steps with this couple.
20:08 As I read this,
20:09 what I'm seeing and hearing is that
20:13 there is this slow eroding in their relationship
20:17 and there is a distancing.
20:19 So one thing that I would try to do
20:21 and I've done in our counseling sessions,
20:23 is I asked a couple
20:24 if they would be willing to write up to ten things
20:28 that they want to do in the next say two years.
20:31 And they'll write them separately.
20:33 Do like as an activities or...
20:35 Yeah, doing activity,
20:36 places they want to go think that they've aspired to,
20:39 yeah, dates or whatever.
20:40 And then they'll take may be
20:42 two, three minutes and write them down,
20:43 and I'll say now switch your papers.
20:46 Now I'll say, and I want to do something
20:48 check off things on that list that you would like to do.
20:52 And what I'm trying to do is
20:54 bring them together on common ground
20:56 and sometimes the husband and wife will say,
20:58 I didn't know that you like to do that,
21:00 yeah, you know I do.
21:01 And then taking to the next step and say well,
21:04 let's begin talking about those things.
21:06 And what I'm attempting to do is to bring them together
21:08 on common ground to start to talk to one another
21:11 about these things.
21:12 That is so powerful,
21:14 it reminds me a little of love languages
21:15 where the whole genius of love languages is I know
21:19 what that other person hears,
21:21 I know what kind of language they can hear
21:23 and I learned to talk in their language
21:25 so it kind of pulls you out of yourself.
21:26 And that's exactly what that exercise
21:28 does is it kind of pulls the person out of themselves
21:31 into the other person subjective life, beautiful.
21:35 I'm glad you brought up love languages
21:36 because many times
21:38 we will say this is my love language
21:40 and this is yours,
21:41 in that way this is mine
21:43 and I'm not gonna try the others.
21:46 And I think that if you look at Jesus,
21:47 He was very well rounded when it came to love languages.
21:50 He didn't just pick one,
21:51 and only demonstrate one love language.
21:54 He had all of them.
21:56 And so sometimes I think we need to say
21:58 well, this is mine and that's how I'm
21:59 and that's what I'm gonna using
22:01 I'm not gonna use anything else.
22:02 But Jesus is our example. That's powerful.
22:03 And you received and heard all the love languages
22:05 the gift from Mary, the words from you know,
22:08 the lepers that He healed and so forth.
22:10 And we have to be careful with love languages
22:12 because sometimes they become selfish.
22:15 And I believe that's what you're saying, is it?
22:17 This is my love language
22:19 so this is what I'm expecting to do,
22:20 and if you don't do it,
22:21 I'm not gonna do anything for you.
22:23 Then you didn't talk of my love language.
22:24 Yes, that's right.
22:26 That's not love.
22:27 With our listening audience what love languages are
22:28 or maybe where they can, yes.
22:30 There's a book written... Yeah, very good,
22:31 good book written by man name Gary Chapman,
22:32 he's a Christian
22:34 and it's all grounded I think in the book of principles,
22:35 and I think his genius was he's trying to get
22:37 people to talk in their partner's love language,
22:40 you know, to get out of themselves
22:41 and like figure out
22:42 what works with their partner rather than,
22:44 oh, I know my love languages,
22:45 so you got to talk in my language,
22:47 I don't think that's what he was going forth,
22:49 I think he's going for the opposite,
22:50 but of course we make everything selfish.
22:52 As human beings we have a tendency to be selfish.
22:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:55 So excellent, excellent, guys,
22:57 any other ideas about what you would do
22:59 with this couple to get them off the square one,
23:01 I mean, they seem to be just kind of stuck.
23:03 It's not terrible,
23:04 there is not severe abuse going on,
23:06 but there is just a breakdown of communication.
23:08 Do you think that learning
23:10 how to communicate their feelings
23:12 would make a difference?
23:14 There was a suggestion given by,
23:16 I don't actually remember who it was
23:17 but I thought it was amazing.
23:19 The suggestion was to
23:21 when you sit down have a conversation,
23:23 hear what the person has to say,
23:26 and simply say thank you afterward
23:28 and you cannot comment for the next 20 minutes
23:32 and I realty like that,
23:33 because our first initial reaction
23:35 when we hear what the other person wants are,
23:37 as in this case.
23:39 And they're telling each other what they want
23:41 and other person is interpreting as criticism.
23:43 Out first usually
23:45 what we do is we defend ourselves.
23:47 Defend, yeah. We justify ourselves.
23:48 So if we wait 20 minutes,
23:50 and we're not allowed to respond
23:51 then we have to take time to think about it.
23:53 And so I think that's powerful.
23:55 That is powerful, that's good.
23:57 You know, the Bible tells us to be quick too.
24:00 And slow to...
24:01 Speak. Speak.
24:03 And slow to wrath. And slow to wrath.
24:04 We're gonna be touching on that in the conflict program.
24:08 But in communication we had to be quick to do what?
24:10 Listen. Listen.
24:11 And most the biggest lack
24:13 in communication is listening skills.
24:15 Listening is an art that most of us are not schooled in.
24:20 And one thing that we can bring to the couple
24:22 or the individuals in the room is
24:24 and you bought up earlier
24:25 have them practice right in front of you.
24:28 And have them say, you know, you say,
24:29 okay listen now tell me what did you hear them say?
24:32 Let me tell you vice versa.
24:33 I've had couples that when that has happened they would say,
24:35 you understood what I was saying?
24:37 Yeah, that was amazing, I love that.
24:39 And so they practice, practice, practice,
24:41 then take it home and practice, go ahead.
24:42 I don't know about you David but you're a man,
24:44 I'm a man and I wasn't brought up
24:45 to be expressing my emotions.
24:47 I'm not saying this, they are.
24:48 My first professor in graduate school,
24:51 my first professor said
24:53 I want you to start journaling your emotions
24:55 because you're not used to this
24:57 because you have to start practicing
24:58 this with your clients,
25:00 so the more that we can model
25:01 expressing our own emotions in the session.
25:05 Emotional awareness, yeah.
25:06 The better they're gonna catch that instead of teaching it.
25:09 And that's true for men overall.
25:11 Women like details
25:13 and man just kind of one word responses,
25:15 you ask me how my day was?
25:18 Yes, as though.
25:19 I'm gonna, I'm gonna...
25:21 I have to recap really quick.
25:22 Yes, no but usually like a woman will with details.
25:24 Got to recap this real quick now.
25:25 Yeah, he feels urgent about this, so go ahead.
25:29 So we're talking about the body language is so critical,
25:31 we have to be aware that
25:33 there is a high percentage of body language
25:34 in our communication.
25:36 We need to rebate identifying and expressing our emotions.
25:39 And this is something that we need to be learning,
25:42 and we can teach this in counseling.
25:44 But listener speaker technique is a wonderful way,
25:49 assume positive intent is very scriptural.
25:53 We always have to assume
25:54 that our partner loves us underneath of it all.
25:57 Stinking thinking pops up all over the place.
26:00 What is stinking thinking?
26:01 It is distorted thinking.
26:02 You've talked about the judgments
26:04 that we have inside our heads,
26:06 the things that we need to be identifying,
26:09 as we're listening to our partners.
26:11 Let's see you've talked about
26:13 being filled up with Christ in love.
26:15 This is so critical,
26:16 using scripture even before we start to communicate
26:19 with another can soften our hearts.
26:21 Challenging our assumptions all along the way,
26:24 and all of these things can be flushed out in counseling.
26:27 We need to be educating folks
26:29 that the fact that God can help us,
26:31 He can finish what He has started this perfect work
26:34 that He is doing in us.
26:35 Sometimes we lose hope in that in the heat of the conflict.
26:39 We have to know what their willingness is to change.
26:41 We have to get that on a scale sometimes,
26:45 where is your willingness to change in like how you said
26:48 earlier, David, that we can pump that
26:50 how can we get that from a two to three or to four,
26:52 session by session.
26:54 I mention writing ten things down for the next years.
26:57 Get them on common ground.
26:58 Common ground.
26:59 These are wonderful techniques.
27:01 Love Languages by Gary Chapman is an excellent book.
27:04 He has a new book out called the family
27:07 that you've always wanted to have
27:08 highly recommended, beautiful book.
27:10 It's great, it's great.
27:12 So. Praise God.
27:13 Okay, well, the wise man said,
27:17 that a wise man's heart guides his mouth
27:20 and his lips promote instruction.
27:23 We've been talking about good listening
27:25 which is essential to good communication,
27:27 but we also we want to check our words
27:29 and make sure that we're speaking words
27:31 that saver of life unto life rather than death unto death.
27:35 So I hope you've learned something about
27:38 how to be a great communicator.
27:40 Come back to future programs
27:42 'cause we're gonna cover more ground,
27:43 we're gonna cover conflict resolution,
27:45 how to handle anger.
27:46 We love having you come to our program,
27:48 we're dedicated to helping you better understand
27:51 how to solve some of the most difficult situations in life,
27:55 through the grace of Jesus Christ
27:56 who is always willing to heal and always willing to bless.