Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Dr. Jean Wright, Nivishi Edwards, David Guererro
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000012A
00:28 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:31 We're so glad you came to our program today.
00:34 This is where you will learn about the things that involved
00:37 the inner life of human beings, the psyche.
00:40 We're gonna talk about mental health
00:41 and we're gonna try to provide for you some
00:43 viable practical solutions
00:45 for some of life's most difficult problems.
00:48 My name is Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
00:50 and I'm a counselor in private practice
00:52 and I want to introduce to you my treatment team here.
00:55 First of all we have David Guererro,
00:58 he is from Wisconsin.
01:00 David is a pastor, a life coach,
01:03 a chaplain and he is also studying for,
01:07 to become a...
01:09 Naturopathic doctor,
01:12 he runs a ministry called Rekindle the Flame,
01:14 under which he does seminars
01:16 and he has a wonderful family
01:18 and a beautiful piece of property in Wisconsin.
01:19 So glad to have you here, David.
01:21 Thank you to be here.
01:22 Now I want to know what you have to say.
01:24 We also have Nivischi Edwards.
01:25 Dr. Nivischi is from Tennessee
01:28 and Dr. Nivischi runs a virtual private practice,
01:31 and that simply mean she has distance clients
01:34 and she also teaches at Southern Adventist University,
01:37 is an inspiring author
01:39 and she loves to work with individuals
01:41 to develop good relationships
01:43 including good relationships with themselves,
01:46 yeah, which is powerful.
01:48 Thank you.
01:49 And we have Dr. Jean Wright.
01:51 Dr. Jean is from Philadelphia, my stomping ground as well,
01:55 in fact he goes to my church,
01:57 and Dr. Jean works with
01:59 the Behavioral Health Department
02:01 of Philadelphia
02:03 as the director of Behavioral Health and Justice,
02:06 is that right, Services, that's right.
02:07 That's right, yeah.
02:08 And Dr. Jean has a book that he has written called,
02:10 what it's called again?
02:11 "Find Strength in Your Struggle."
02:13 "Find Strength in Your Struggle."
02:14 Dr. Jean has a private practice
02:17 and he also likes to work on the side with community,
02:21 forgiveness and restoration going into the prisons
02:24 and working with that population.
02:26 And we have Rob last but not least Rob Davidson.
02:31 He is my co-host
02:32 and he works with me in Abide Counseling Network.
02:35 He has a private practice in the DC area,
02:38 and Rob really does a great job
02:40 with just about anything he tries,
02:41 he is a gifted and natural counselor
02:44 but he likes to also help men develop servant leadership
02:47 and biblical integrity and manhood,
02:49 so that's a much needed focus and emphasis.
02:53 And it's so awesome that each one of you are here,
02:56 and I want to just say that
02:57 if anyone is ever curious about these individuals,
03:00 you can go to our website at amultitudeofcounselors.tv
03:06 and look out to get more information,
03:07 and in some cases get free downloads and documents
03:10 and who knows what they're gonna have up there
03:12 but if you need more info,
03:13 go to that website amultitudeofcounselors.tv.
03:18 So our topic today is Psychosis.
03:21 Psychosis, first and foremost
03:23 I want to get a definition of psychosis up there.
03:26 Psychosis is a severe mental disorder
03:29 in which thought and emotions are so impaired
03:33 that contact is lost with external reality.
03:39 So the main illnesses or disorders
03:43 that involves psychosis are schizophrenia and bipolar.
03:49 Bipolar can have psychotic symptoms and schizophrenia,
03:51 pretty much always has psychotic symptoms.
03:55 But also street drugs, alcohol,
03:59 sometimes traumatic brain injury
04:01 or other kinds of brain injury
04:02 can trigger a psychotic episode.
04:04 So what are some of the symptoms of psychosis?
04:07 Let's look at that next.
04:09 First of all disorganized thoughts and speech,
04:13 false beliefs not based in reality,
04:16 we call those delusions,
04:17 particularly unfounded fear or suspicion,
04:20 the KGB is after me,
04:21 the CIA has my number type stuff.
04:24 Hearing, seeing or feeling things
04:26 that are not there
04:27 and we call those hallucinations.
04:30 And thoughts that jump between unrelated topics,
04:33 that's disordered thinking.
04:34 Those are some of the classic markers of psychosis.
04:37 What about the prevalence of psychosis?
04:39 Well, the latest research says
04:41 that schizophrenia is about 1 percent of the population.
04:45 We were talking about this today how...
04:47 I was saying that maybe the fact that
04:50 we don't encounter a lot of people
04:52 with active schizophrenia
04:53 is because they migrate to the streets.
04:55 But you were saying now most people with schizophrenia
04:58 manage it with medication
05:00 and however the street populate,
05:03 the homeless population is by and large
05:05 where many of them are suffering with schizophrenia,
05:07 is that correct?
05:09 Correct. Yeah.
05:10 Bipolar's higher, more bipolar,
05:12 4.4 percent?
05:14 I think bipolar is more of a spectrum disorder
05:17 and schizophrenia is more like
05:19 kind of you have it or you don't,
05:20 is my observation, would you guys agree with that?
05:24 You can have a mild form of bipolar
05:26 and kind of manage it with lifestyle
05:28 and maybe some herbs and stuff
05:29 and then you can have severe bipolar,
05:30 we really do have a lot of psychotic symptoms.
05:33 And the cause thought to be
05:35 a combination of genetics and environment.
05:37 I understand that
05:38 there are more children with schizophrenia born
05:40 in the spring time which makes me wonder
05:43 what's going on with mother
05:44 when she has the baby in utero during those darker months,
05:47 I don't know if there is sunshine exposure things,
05:49 vitamin D, who knows.
05:50 I don't know that we have any solid data on that,
05:54 but I want to talk briefly about
05:56 what's going on neurologically
05:58 because I want to bring something out,
06:00 and what I want to talk about is dopamine pathways.
06:03 Dopamine is a neuro transmitter
06:05 that has to do largely with experience of pleasure
06:08 but it's involved in schizophrenia,
06:12 and I would just like to say that
06:15 anything that disrupts
06:16 the normal chemistry of the brain,
06:18 at least in my thinking could potentially
06:21 set a person out for a psychotic episode
06:23 if they have that tendency to begin with,
06:25 and that's why I personally don't use caffeine
06:27 'cause caffeine effects the dopamine circuit.
06:30 So just want to throw that out there.
06:33 The prognosis for psychotic disorders is that they are,
06:40 they need to be managed and by the grace of God,
06:43 good lifestyle, good social support
06:46 and sometimes medication,
06:47 they can be managed
06:49 and people can have good healthy reasonable,
06:52 functional lives,
06:53 but they must be managed.
06:55 The treatments typically are,
06:57 in my observation and from the reading I've done,
07:00 most bipolar, at least the severe types
07:03 and definitely schizophrenia need to be medicated
07:05 because what you have with these disorders
07:09 is not just lifestyle problems and faulty patterns of thinking
07:14 that can be changed or faulty patterns
07:16 or behavior that can be changed
07:17 but you have organic brain disease
07:19 where there's just a fixed disorder
07:22 in the organic aspect of the brain itself.
07:24 So there is something going wrong there
07:27 and sad as it is,
07:29 that person may have to wait until Jesus comes again
07:32 and then the twinkling of an eye,
07:34 corruption will put on incorruption.
07:36 And until then they may have to manage it with medication
07:39 and that is not a failure,
07:41 and I really want to get that message out
07:43 to those that wrestle with these things
07:44 or know people that do.
07:45 This is not a failure,
07:47 if you need to use medication to manage something,
07:49 don't add insult to injury by heaping blame upon yourself.
07:52 Do the best you can
07:53 and that's all God requires of you.
07:56 Amen. Amen.
07:57 So what do you guys do to help people with these issues
07:59 and I know you, Jean,
08:00 particularly have daily contact with this type of thing, no?
08:03 I do... Yeah.
08:04 And it's part of the, you know,
08:06 the part of when I go into the prison system
08:08 and talk with generally men
08:11 that I'm dealing with
08:12 that have been diagnosed with schizophrenia
08:13 or bipolar I or bipolar II disorder,
08:16 and it is managed with medication
08:18 and sometimes people feel like especially with bipolar,
08:21 they start feeling better and they think,
08:22 well, I can stop my medication, I feel fine.
08:25 You know, and I tell people at the time, you know,
08:26 don't feel like you are damaged
08:28 because you have to take medication for your illness.
08:31 Take medication, it helps you balance your mind,
08:33 the organic issue and they said, well,
08:35 I should be able to pray and get rid of that.
08:37 I tell them pray without ceasing
08:38 and take your medication.
08:39 That's right.
08:41 You know, we do the same thing with diabetes,
08:42 heart disease,
08:44 we tell people take your medication
08:45 and so we should do the same...
08:47 And this is the thing, we don't have this thing
08:48 about physical illnesses,
08:49 particularly things that people did not bring upon themselves,
08:52 it's not a choice that they made it and wake up
08:54 on morning and say, "I want to be diabetic."
08:56 You know maybe they have Type 1 diabetes
08:57 and there is really nothing they can do.
08:59 We don't blame them.
09:00 No, it's a break with reality. Yeah.
09:03 So it's not something that you can necessarily
09:06 just get rid off
09:08 as you said by powerful, positive thing.
09:10 Pull yourself out of...
09:11 It was something that I believe
09:12 God has placed professionals on this earth
09:15 to assist one another.
09:16 So human beings, we're here to help one another.
09:19 So some of us have a particular skill,
09:21 that with God's grace and with preparation
09:24 that we can help one another,
09:25 one of those is a mental health professional.
09:27 And so we have physicians that has specialties,
09:29 we have lots of people who has specialties,
09:31 and this is one that I think if you can get a counselor
09:33 that knows what they are doing
09:34 and is prayed up,
09:36 then you have a good combination
09:37 to manage your mental health.
09:39 That's powerful.
09:40 So what do you say to people that have this set back,
09:41 they are just, they are born with this
09:43 or whatever and it's just,
09:44 they don't want it, they didn't ask for it
09:46 but they suffer with it
09:47 and life is a battle because if then,
09:49 it's harder for them that it is for other people.
09:51 What do you say to them when they say why me?
09:54 Why didn't God, you know,
09:55 why did God let this happen to me?
09:56 When it sort of interrupts their feelings toward God,
10:00 what do you say to them?
10:02 Oh, we typically see with different types of psychosis is
10:05 it's not just an issue with the person
10:08 who is struggling with the illness
10:10 but it's a family,
10:11 it's a system's challenge as well.
10:13 So if I am struggling with schizophrenia,
10:17 my spouse is also struggling
10:19 because it's impacting our marriage relationship,
10:22 it's impacting the children,
10:24 it's impacting my parents and my siblings
10:27 and so I tend to ask them to look at the impact
10:30 that it's having
10:32 and that tends to aid with the empathy
10:35 and assists with the desire for change
10:38 because that's where it starts.
10:39 If I'm struggling with an illness
10:41 and I don't see it or I don't believe it,
10:44 and I don't want to do anything about it
10:47 then I won't.
10:48 However, if I see the impact is having on me,
10:51 on those I love and those who love me,
10:53 that will sometimes help me to make the shifts
10:56 in order to make the changes that are necessary.
10:58 So you're drawing them out of themselves,
11:00 it's not really, nobody lives in a vacuum,
11:02 it's not only affecting you,
11:04 it's affecting everyone around you.
11:07 And one thing I say to people, it isn't your fault,
11:08 but it is your responsibility,
11:09 what you're gonna do with this thing,
11:11 you know, this gift so to speak, you know,
11:13 and I know you don't like it
11:15 but what you are gonna do with it?
11:16 Are you gonna handle in such a way
11:18 that it hurts other people
11:19 or you're gonna try to handle
11:21 in the most responsible way possible,
11:22 and don't we use family therapy
11:24 typically with treatment of schizophrenia
11:26 because the tendency
11:27 and from what I understand schiz means to tear away,
11:30 and so one of the primary feature,
11:32 people thinks schizophrenia is two personalities,
11:34 it's not true at all,
11:35 that's associated by gender disorder very rare,
11:37 schizophrenia is much more common.
11:39 Schiz from what I understand means to pull away
11:41 because the tendency of the person
11:42 with schizophrenia is to isolate,
11:44 and so a lot of the treatment isn't just medication.
11:47 Again, counseling, interventions and medication,
11:51 and bringing on that person into fellowship
11:54 and building the relationships...
11:55 And so it's educating those around them,
11:57 so it's a system's approach.
11:59 It's not just the person who is identified as the client
12:02 but those who are around them in their immediate circles
12:05 and even their social circles as well
12:06 to aid in their treatment process.
12:08 And isn't this why,
12:10 was it Nash, was his first name,
12:12 the famous Nobel peace prize winner...
12:17 The movie "Beautiful Mind"
12:19 isn't the reason that they kept him there
12:20 at the university was because they knew
12:23 that if they kept him,
12:24 if he moved away after he retired,
12:26 he would isolate...
12:29 He would get worse but they kept in there
12:30 because they all understood him,
12:32 they got him, they knew him
12:33 and they loved him in spite of his idiosyncrasy.
12:35 And he needed that support.
12:36 Yeah, there is no better place
12:38 to find that sometimes than church,
12:39 you know, and if only we would know
12:41 how to help people with these illnesses
12:43 and how not to like blame them for
12:46 having spiritual problems or, you know,
12:49 assuming that it's demon possession
12:51 or whatever and further isolating them,
12:53 if only we knew how to draw them in,
12:55 you know, I think the church could be even more therapeutic
12:58 than it already is.
12:59 As you see that and we talk about support
13:02 in answering the question,
13:03 or at least attempting to answer the question why me?
13:07 One thing that I like to do is try to invite the person
13:10 to consider where have they seen God
13:12 in the experience?
13:14 So it's taking them out of themselves
13:15 and looking for God and looking at a promise,
13:17 well, promises, Bible promises,
13:19 the one is, two are, you know,
13:21 Jesus says in the Book of Mathew,
13:22 "Lord I'm with you always, even to the end of the world."
13:26 And in Hebrews 13, it says,
13:29 "I will be with you always."
13:31 And this says the Lord is my helper.
13:33 And inviting the person to just talk a little bit about
13:36 where have they seen Jesus in their experience,
13:39 where is God?
13:41 Or perhaps, where they sense God isn't?
13:46 And let's take it sometime
13:48 and talk about the presence of God
13:50 and where he is and where he is not
13:51 and let's bring God into the experience.
13:53 Sometimes the best way to get
13:55 into the light is to get out of the darkness.
13:57 And I think if Paul was here, he would been,
13:59 so I'll do it in his absence, he would point out that
14:03 Jesus experienced on the cross
14:05 what we might call psychotic break.
14:06 I mean, he had such an emotional,
14:09 mental meltdown that it caused
14:11 physical symptoms that ultimately took His life.
14:14 So when you say Paul, Paul Coneff.
14:16 Paul Coneff, yeah.
14:17 Okay, not the Apostle Paul. Not the apostle.
14:18 I don't have personal relationship with him,
14:21 or you think I was being so close,
14:23 but Paul Coneff would say,
14:25 'cause he always leads us to the cross
14:27 and he would say that, you know,
14:28 Jesus suffered something like,
14:31 maybe not what we call a psychotic break
14:32 but he definitely had a meltdown,
14:34 that was so powerfully impacting and emotional,
14:37 a wave of emotion was so overpowering
14:39 that he ended up dying of really
14:41 what was a heart attack,
14:43 its called, some people call it pericardial effusion,
14:45 the heart becomes endemic and the fluid bears down
14:49 and burst the heart and that would explain
14:50 why there was blood and water coming out of his side
14:53 when his side was pierced.
14:55 You know, he died of the physical ramifications
14:58 of mental anguish, that's right
14:59 and so he has borne our grieves
15:02 and carried our sorrows
15:03 and we can point people
15:05 with organic brain disease to Jesus
15:07 and say look he knows how you feel,
15:10 you know, and that can really help them come...
15:12 I find it's more effective, like you can argue apologetics
15:17 with people that are struggling with why God questions,
15:20 but it's more effective to just point them
15:23 to a savior who knows how they feel...
15:26 To where they can feel empathically bound to Him
15:29 and that seems to reduce the need
15:31 for an answer to the question
15:32 because they don't feel alone anymore,
15:34 because they know God
15:36 may have allowed this to happen.
15:37 He may have allowed you to suffer
15:38 but he is not asking you to suffer alone,
15:40 he's right beside you.
15:41 Amen. So...
15:42 Notice that Jesus on the cross was alone
15:44 when he said my God, why have you forsaken me,
15:47 and that alone feeling that he is going through,
15:50 we can bridge that to what the client is going through
15:52 because I had a client
15:53 who clearly had schizophrenia coming to me
15:55 and she didn't have anyone else
15:57 to talk to her about this literally.
15:59 So just me sitting there listening to her journey,
16:01 helped here to see that she was not alone.
16:04 So I just needed to,
16:06 just be with her during this whole process
16:08 until and this is an important point,
16:10 my supervisor pointed out, has she been to a doctor?
16:14 And when I brought that to the session,
16:16 I think it was a third or fourth session,
16:18 unfortunately she never came back.
16:21 Because she thought that I didn't believe her story.
16:24 She thought that this was all medical
16:26 and I wasn't believing in her story.
16:28 But that's an important point
16:29 bringing the medical doctor into the team.
16:32 So you want to go ahead
16:34 and give our presenting problem.
16:36 Although a medicate client
16:37 and with a low income 43 year old Hispanic Tony
16:41 looks at the picture of success
16:43 as he strides into the office in a designer suit.
16:46 Well groomed, facial hair and a cloud of cologne.
16:49 He explains that he works as an advocate
16:51 for the mentally ill,
16:52 being diagnosed bipolar himself.
16:54 Tony has just been baptized
16:56 and is a strong believer in the Bible.
16:58 He talks enthusiastically about his faith
17:01 but by the third or fourth session
17:02 you notice that he had some extreme ideas
17:04 regarding what the Bible teaches about spiritual gifts.
17:08 By the fifth session Tony tells you
17:10 that he believes you are a prophet
17:11 and the angel Gabriel,
17:14 the archangel has spoken to him,
17:17 tell him that you too are the two of you
17:19 have a special mission to fulfill
17:21 in giving the last message to a dying world.
17:24 What do you do?
17:27 And there is silence in the land.
17:31 Well, you can build on Tony strengths.
17:33 He believes in the Bible,
17:36 and he enthusiastically talks about his faith.
17:40 And so we can or what I would do is
17:44 just take a moment
17:46 and try to align the word of God
17:48 and truth with this mission that he is trying to.
17:52 Well, he is saying that we need to go on
17:55 and just talk a little bit about that mission.
17:57 You know that's so good,
17:59 we had an individual in our lives
18:01 at one point who has since passed.
18:03 But this individual would have psychotic breaks
18:06 very and frequently but she would have them
18:08 and one came upon her once
18:10 and she became convinced that my husband was Jesus
18:12 and I was Mary Magdalene.
18:14 And the way we talked her down off that ledge was
18:16 'cause she was a believer.
18:17 We said, when Jesus comes again,
18:19 his feet won't touch the ground.
18:20 And she saw the evidence right there in scripture
18:22 and she said, you're right, he is not Jesus.
18:24 And that fixed the problem, so you're so right,
18:26 you draw in the strengths of the person they're believer,
18:29 you know, pull out the Bible, have all Bible study with him,
18:32 so that's good.
18:33 What do you do with as person in this condition,
18:36 how do you help them?
18:38 In this case, probably the first thing
18:39 I would do is what Rob suggested,
18:41 I would make sure that
18:42 there has been a medical workup
18:44 and make sure that I can rule it out
18:46 things that maybe of a medical condition,
18:48 and so that helps me to sort of isolate
18:51 what the issues may be,
18:52 and then I can have that conversation with them
18:54 once I rule out any medical challenges
18:56 that may be the reason
18:57 or something medically induced.
18:58 How would you introduce that to him now
19:00 and that he could offended.
19:02 He could but I would just talk about
19:03 his overall general health.
19:04 and you've come to me for this purpose,
19:06 and you know, I'm a physical,
19:08 I'm not a physical scientist,
19:11 I'm a psychological person
19:12 and so you come to me for counseling
19:14 but always refer to my medical physicians and say,
19:18 hey, can we rule out something personal,
19:20 how is your general healthy and talk to him about that.
19:22 And I think that he may be
19:24 probably pretty proud of his health
19:26 and so he may want to talk about it
19:27 but that's one thing
19:29 I want to do is rule those things out.
19:30 But can an average doctor's, you know,
19:32 like an average physical identify as schizophrenia.
19:37 No, I wouldn't be asking him to rule
19:39 to identify schizophrenia,
19:40 I want just a medical workup.
19:43 I will handle the mental part,
19:45 I just want him to do a physical workup,
19:46 so I can see if there are any physical challenges
19:48 or issues that we should have.
19:49 Oh, they could be contributing. Correct.
19:51 So I'm not asking them to diagnose, you know,
19:53 health condition.
19:54 I just want to refer to him.
19:55 Notice that his individual has been diagnosed
19:57 with bipolar already.
19:58 So is there medication in the picture.
20:00 Has he taken himself off medication,
20:01 these are all important things we need to know.
20:03 You need to know that history.
20:04 Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
20:06 How do you bring in the supernatural,
20:08 some people say and people start acting
20:09 irrationally like that, it's just the devil.
20:12 And some people say it's never the devil, you know,
20:14 it's always just this illnesses,
20:16 what do you guys think about that,
20:17 throwing out there, thrown you a bone...
20:21 a vegetarian.
20:22 I had a case very similar to this
20:23 and of course,
20:26 every case is different but what helped in that case
20:30 was including the family in the experience
20:36 and I wasn't the counseling the person per se,
20:40 it was at a church I was pastoring
20:42 and the person was coming to me at times
20:44 and I did exactly what I said earlier,
20:47 we went through scripture and we talked about some things
20:50 but it just kept escalating and so I,
20:53 you know, as a pastor I knew the family
20:55 and I just initiated the call and said,
20:56 you know, this is going on.
20:58 Can you give me some insight, yeah.
20:59 You told the family. Yeah.
21:00 and one of the brother said,
21:02 I will call and then the individual said,
21:05 you know, now that you called me,
21:06 why don't the three of us meet with the pastor.
21:09 And so, the family member was there in the room
21:12 and because they knew the history,
21:14 they were able to talk to the person directly
21:16 because they had that relationship
21:18 and start to bring, you know, turn things around.
21:20 So the family member talked to the person directly.
21:23 Yes, yes.
21:24 They came to the next session or the next meeting together
21:28 and because the individual invited the family member,
21:32 they said, you know, why don't you call,
21:33 why don't the two of us go see pastor David,
21:36 and that was a blessing, it was a blessing,
21:38 so getting the family...
21:40 Yeah, getting the family involved somehow,
21:42 so you have that support.
21:43 It sounds like the team approach could be
21:45 very effective to deal with this client
21:47 and deal with clients with psychosis
21:49 and generally talked about the medical need,
21:51 he also talked about that Rob,
21:53 psychiatric needs are also important
21:55 because that's usually
21:56 where the med management comes in,
21:58 looking at the family needs
21:59 and any kind of social supports
22:01 that may be important as well,
22:02 and then ask the clinicians
22:04 so a team approach to support the person
22:05 in their area of need to shift them
22:08 and to help them to get more aligned
22:10 with what they're struggling with.
22:11 You know, I don't want to get away from
22:13 what you brought up.
22:14 I don't think any of us would deny
22:15 that demon possession
22:17 obviously it's in the Bible and it still happens today.
22:19 So how do we as professionals know the difference
22:21 if somebody is presenting to us with certain issues
22:24 and you spoke to that pretty nicely off camera.
22:27 Yeah, one of the things that came to mind is
22:28 when I look at schizophrenia,
22:30 it is definitely an organic disease
22:33 or certainly a break in reality
22:35 whereas what I read in the Bible about possession
22:38 the whole person has changed,
22:39 even with the different voice and actions
22:41 and behaviors that
22:43 clearly are not from the human source,
22:45 where as schizophrenia is not that at all,
22:48 so the person is not going to change their voice,
22:50 they're not going to talk differently.
22:51 Now they may attend to external stimuli hallucinations
22:55 that are not there,
22:57 but it's not something
22:58 where you can compare to a demon possession,
23:00 there are not multiple personalities
23:02 inside their body or inside their head,
23:04 and I think that's one way to draw a line of demarcation
23:07 between schizophrenia
23:09 and what we may see as demon possession.
23:10 We can see supernatural changes in the person.
23:12 Absolutely. Yeah.
23:13 So we're all in that same page that we believe that
23:15 there is such a thing as demon possession,
23:17 supernatural activity,
23:18 we're not about to deny that and just say,
23:20 oh, it's just illness, you know.
23:22 We wrestle not against flesh or blood,
23:24 but against principalities and powers, absolutely.
23:27 And I would go little further and say,
23:28 the devil knows our weaknesses
23:30 including our brain weaknesses
23:32 and he is standing by at all times
23:33 to capitalize on that,
23:35 but fortunately Jesus is stronger than Satan
23:38 and he fights him off if we trust in him,
23:40 so I'm so thankful for that because I,
23:43 and I also believe that what we need to do with people
23:46 that have these kinds of illnesses is
23:48 we need to gather around them as a church
23:51 and we need to pray for them
23:52 and strive for their best health with them
23:55 instead of isolating from them
23:56 because they act different sometimes and strange
23:58 and it's very easy to be like pulling away from them,
24:02 but we need to instead take upon ourselves
24:04 the responsibility of making their church experience
24:06 as positive as possible.
24:08 I remember talking to a lady
24:09 that every time she tried to go to church,
24:10 she knew she needed Jesus,
24:12 she start hearing voices as soon as
24:13 she enter the building and I said,
24:16 get a group of people around you
24:17 and have a prayer right
24:19 as you're at the door of the church
24:20 to ward off the devil
24:22 because he can't attack you
24:24 when you're covered with prayer, he can't.
24:26 The ways that to happen that was for us
24:28 as the church members to educate ourselves
24:30 about these illnesses.
24:32 So we're not afraid of it
24:33 and we don't reject the person
24:35 who is exhibiting those things.
24:36 Don't reject them
24:38 and don't add the stigma of spiritual failure
24:40 to an illness that they already are wrestling
24:43 with that they did not ask for,
24:44 that's already putting them at disadvantage,
24:46 but don't be cruel in that way
24:48 and recognize get it through your head
24:51 believers that there is such a thing
24:53 as organic brain disease.
24:54 Let me say something I think it's important
24:56 because you know, I've pastored churches,
24:59 I agree with everything that you're saying and I affirm it,
25:01 however something else that needs to be consider is
25:05 as long as everyone's gonna be safe
25:09 because I was in a situation
25:11 where the individual was coming to church
25:13 and it no longer,
25:15 the church no longer became a safe place to go
25:16 'cause of the outburst.
25:18 Now you still have to love them and support them
25:20 but as the church you have to see
25:21 how can we still make the church safe
25:23 and still love and take care of the individual
25:26 that needs help.
25:27 That's really a good point.
25:29 It is. Thank you.
25:30 And unfortunately,
25:32 I need to start doing the recap here,
25:33 there's so much more that we could talk about.
25:34 It's a very helpful, though, Guy.
25:36 Medication, there are such things
25:38 as brain chemicals that are out of balance.
25:40 A medication really can help.
25:42 A break with reality is what we're speaking about here,
25:46 which is different from demon possession
25:47 with supernatural tendencies.
25:49 Family system is vital to bring into picture,
25:52 a team approach.
25:53 We're talking about the medical doctor,
25:55 the physiatrist or the medicine, therapy,
25:58 bring the team, bring the family in,
25:59 bring social contacts in
26:01 because when we're talking about
26:02 managing this disorder or these disorders,
26:06 we're not talking about complete healing,
26:09 we're talking about managing the best way we can.
26:11 And everybody needs support
26:12 and everybody needs to be aware of what's going on.
26:14 So education is huge
26:16 when it comes to the support system
26:18 or comes to the church itself.
26:20 Where is God in all of these?
26:22 He's right with us. Amen.
26:23 And we need to really go to scripture
26:25 and go to the cross.
26:26 Oh, my goodness,
26:27 Jesus was so alone on the cross.
26:29 And we could all identify with that at times in our life,
26:34 how alone we can be, so we have to go to the cross,
26:36 have to go to scripture.
26:39 And when the medical doctor comes into play,
26:42 we can rule out a lot of medical causes
26:44 that may not be a part of the picture
26:46 up to this point with the client,
26:49 so, you know, the team approach is vital
26:52 when we're talking about psychosis.
26:54 We can't do it all, we don't have all the answers
26:56 but we sure know the one who does, don't we?
26:58 Amen, his name is Jesus.
27:00 So we're so thankful that
27:01 you were with us on this program,
27:03 friends, and we hope that
27:05 you've learned something helpful
27:06 and practical that will better equip you
27:09 to manage your own issues and help other people
27:12 handle theirs as we struggle through the rest of our lives
27:15 here on this earth waiting for Jesus
27:16 to change us in the twinkling of an eye.
27:19 I want to close with the couple of scriptures.
27:21 May the peace of God rule in your hearts,
27:24 keeping your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus,
27:26 and I know I didn't say that just right,
27:27 but it's Philippians 4:7 so you can look it up
27:29 and also God has not given us the spirit of fear
27:31 but of power and of love and of a sound mind,
27:36 2 Timothy 1:7.
27:38 Trusting in Jesus can mitigate
27:41 the assaults of even organic mental illness
27:44 and help take the edge off
27:45 some of the things we struggle with.
27:47 Jesus is standing by you
27:49 moment by moment, day after day
27:51 to empower you to do the things
27:52 you could never do in your own flesh,
27:55 and he will also provide for you
27:57 a family and fellowship
27:58 if you trust in him.
28:00 See you next time.