Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Nivischi Edwards, Christina Cecetto, Dr. Jean Wright
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000013A
00:28 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:31 We're so thankful you came to our program today.
00:35 We're looking forward to sharing with you
00:37 from our experience,
00:40 from our knowledge base and from the word of God,
00:42 principles that will enhance your mental health
00:45 and the mental health of those to whom you minister.
00:48 I want to introduce my treatment team
00:50 that's here today, thankful for each one of them.
00:53 First we have Dr. Jean Wright, he's from Philadelphia
00:57 and he is the director of the behavioral...
01:02 Say it for me I was...
01:03 Director of Behavioral Health and Justice Services.
01:05 Services, which is part of the behavioral
01:06 health department.
01:07 Correct, yes.
01:09 And he also is an author, he has a private practice
01:13 and he loves to work on the side
01:15 with community forgiveness and restoration
01:19 and that with the present population correct...
01:21 And that is just so cool.
01:23 And we've got Christina Cecetto,
01:26 she is from Georgia
01:29 she is a licensed master's in social work,
01:33 she also woks at Wildwood Lifestyle Center,
01:37 she likes to focus on anxiety, mood disorders, and phobias,
01:42 and that's a unique contribution you make
01:44 because phobia is a very commonly diagnosed
01:46 anxiety disorder.
01:48 So, so thankful to have you here,
01:50 Christina, you're a blessing
01:51 and you're really our local lifestyle medicine expert.
01:55 And Dr. Nivischi Edwards is from Tennessee,
02:00 she is a virtual private practice counselor,
02:04 she also works in Southern Adventist University,
02:07 she is working on a book
02:09 and she likes to help people develop healthy relationships,
02:12 including a relationship with themselves
02:14 which is important.
02:17 And John, sorry I'm calling you John
02:19 after all these years.
02:20 How did they even know who you are?
02:23 And Robert Davidson my co-host is from the D.C. area.
02:28 He works with me in a private practice
02:31 through a bite counseling network.
02:33 And he treats a variety of issues
02:35 with a variety of different presentations
02:37 but he likes to help men develop servant leadership
02:40 and Biblical integrity and Biblical manhood
02:43 so that's very needed in today's environment
02:46 of so many divorces and families falling apart
02:49 and Pornography addiction is pandemic,
02:51 so we're so thankful that you're on that.
02:53 And you're Jennifer.
02:55 And I'm Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
02:57 And I'm a private practice counselor,
02:59 and I do a few other things on the side
03:01 and stop teasing me you guys.
03:06 We're talking about mood disorders today,
03:08 mood disorders are a real common diagnosis
03:11 in the mental health field.
03:13 So let me give you a definition first.
03:16 Mood disorders are not surprisingly disorders
03:20 that have to do with the mood.
03:21 We all have a certain level of happiness,
03:25 if you can call it that or a level of mood
03:27 that we enjoy everyday and the mood can go up,
03:30 the mood can go down
03:32 but when that process goes awry either
03:34 because of brain chemistry or faulty thinking
03:36 or whatever, history of trauma,
03:38 sometimes we develop a mood disorder.
03:41 So let's look at some of the major mood disorders
03:43 that we see on a day-to-day basis
03:45 in our offices.
03:47 First of all, the most common of course,
03:49 is major depressive disorder.
03:51 That's simply and I'm not going to go into the detail
03:53 into the diagnosis but that's simply a person
03:55 who's depressed for a prolonged period of time
03:57 to the point where it affects the relationships
03:59 and their functioning.
04:01 And then Dysthymic Disorder if I can just simplify,
04:04 it's really a mild form of depression essentially,
04:07 it's not as severe as major depressive
04:09 but some of the features are present.
04:11 Then we have Bipolar Disorder
04:12 which is wildly fluctuating moods.
04:15 And this can happen in very severe form
04:18 or if they're of extreme high moods
04:20 with what we call manic episode,
04:22 when person is up at night and they're not sleeping
04:24 and they're taking on all kinds of adventures,
04:27 doing all kinds of things or we can see it,
04:30 and then the person crashes into a extremely low mood
04:33 or we can see that cycle very rapidly.
04:36 So it's kind of a dodgy disorder in the sense,
04:40 they would say dodgy in Australia
04:42 and I have Australian friends.
04:43 But it's difficult to pin point it.
04:46 It has kind of a variety of presentations.
04:48 And then, of course,
04:49 Cyclothymic Disorder is a mild form of bipolar
04:53 if I can call it that.
04:54 So those are the major mood disorders.
04:56 What about the prevalence of mood disorders it hovers
04:59 from what I read about 10% of people struggle
05:03 with mood disorders
05:04 and it's higher in women than in men.
05:07 The regulation of our mood is largely a function
05:10 of the neurotransmitter serotonin
05:13 and apparently women have a little less serotonin
05:15 in the brain than men from what I've read.
05:17 So women can have a more difficult time
05:19 with regulating the mood
05:20 and they're also more prone to anxiety.
05:23 But there are other sub groups that struggle too.
05:25 For instance and I learn this recently,
05:27 are physicians in training.
05:29 Physicians in training and I've met a couple of them
05:32 and I could see why they're depressed.
05:33 They're just...
05:34 They almost haze them
05:36 if they have to go through so much
05:37 during the residencies and so forth.
05:39 The cause of the depression
05:40 of course seems to be kind of that cocktail
05:42 of nature and nurture and sometimes
05:44 current life-triggering situations
05:47 and that's part of our job, isn't it?
05:49 It is to find out what the cause is
05:50 because we got a reason from cause to affect
05:53 because if we can eradicate the cause
05:55 then we've effectively treated the disorder.
05:58 The prognosis as always is, it is very treatable
06:03 because there is hope and health in healing in Jesus.
06:07 He is the health of our countenance
06:09 and our God.
06:10 So the treatments include things like lifestyle changes
06:13 that can help with the mood because it helps the whole body
06:16 and the brain is a physical organ,
06:18 it's a part of the human body and you improve the body,
06:20 you're improving the brain.
06:21 We also use talk therapy, we use...
06:25 Faith is a big component of my recovery
06:27 from depression, social supporters
06:30 are very important component of treatment of depression.
06:33 Some herbs and supplements
06:34 seem to help depression in my experience
06:37 and also medications are sometimes called for
06:40 and of course, the famous SSRI drugs,
06:43 Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors help more serotonin
06:47 to be in those synaptic gaps in the brain
06:51 and so the peoples mood improves typically
06:53 on those medications.
06:55 And sometimes those are called for,
06:57 we also use...
06:58 The standard treatment
06:59 is cognitive behavioral therapy,
07:01 have negative life experiences,
07:02 out of those negative experience
07:04 come negative feelings but there are something
07:06 that mediates between those two things
07:08 and that is cognitive processing,
07:10 I can change the way I think about things
07:12 by the grace of God,
07:13 and as Paul brought out so well,
07:15 our other team member here.
07:17 We receive those beliefs, those truths from Jesus.
07:21 We don't just work hard to change our thoughts,
07:23 we receive them from Jesus, he empowers us
07:26 and our will aligning with his will
07:28 brings about that change.
07:29 So our thoughts can change, and when our thoughts change
07:31 typically our feelings change.
07:33 So those were the things that I know about that
07:35 help with mood disorders, what do you guys use?
07:38 What do you do when clients present with these issues
07:41 and feel free to talk about anything depression bipolar
07:44 or whatever, you have experience with.
07:46 I like to expand on the word you used Jennifer, a lifestyle,
07:50 because it's holistic and one of the first things
07:53 I look at with clients who are struggling
07:55 with different moods or disorders
07:56 is what's your eating habits like?
08:00 How is your sleeping pattern? Are you working out?
08:04 You talked about social support,
08:05 so all those things are vial
08:07 because I think sometimes
08:08 what happens is we neglect those things
08:10 when our moods are impacted,
08:12 those are the first things that we neglect.
08:13 It's a first thing, let go. Absolutely.
08:15 Even when I talk with my students, you know,
08:17 being a student, it can be a very stressful life,
08:21 and if it's final's week
08:23 or if it's the beginning of the semester
08:25 and all the things are impacting
08:27 and the emotions are high or low,
08:29 I encourage the students, well,
08:31 look at what's going on with you,
08:33 and what is your prevention plan,
08:36 to make sure that your mood stays or floats
08:39 so you're in the healthiest state to be most productive.
08:41 You mentioned that often when people need those
08:44 to make those choices is when they start making them
08:47 because their mood is low.
08:48 I have client that really struggles with bipolar
08:50 and goes down to the depths of the lows
08:54 and the thing that has really turned him around
08:55 'cause he wouldn't even want to get out of bed,
08:57 is I said, "Look, even if you don't feel like it
09:00 you still have this thing called a free will,"
09:02 and he kind of discovered the power of the will
09:04 and he learned how to just, how to ask, you know,
09:07 obviously ask Jesus to come into his life
09:10 and then he exercised that will
09:12 and it's really been quiet transformative for him.
09:14 So people often have kind of a subconscious belief
09:18 that I have to go by my feelings.
09:20 If I feel badly I have to just act out that way
09:23 but they don't really fully tap into the power of the will
09:27 and really I think very few of us
09:30 take full advantage
09:32 of what we have in the power of will.
09:33 I love what you just said.
09:34 My grandma struggled with Alzheimer's
09:36 toward the end of her life.
09:38 And you know that kind of disrupts the mood often.
09:40 You're very discombobulated.
09:42 One thing I learned from her, just watching her,
09:45 she experienced the struggle with that illness.
09:48 She always showed up,
09:50 she always completed her daily life tasks, the DLTs.
09:54 She got up, didn't matter what was going on
09:56 or what the voices were saying or what her emotions were,
09:58 she got up and she showed up and that's really important,
10:01 I encourage clients to do that.
10:03 Get up, you don't want to do it anyway,
10:06 you brush your teeth, you wash your face,
10:08 you take a shower, you get dressed.
10:10 And sometimes it takes everything in one's power
10:13 when they're struggling with different moods of disorders,
10:16 to do those daily life tasks.
10:17 But I encourage them, I tell my grandma to do it,
10:19 she was struggling toward the end of her life.
10:22 But you get up and you do those daily life tasks
10:25 and you'll be amazed how that can sometimes be
10:28 what you need to move yourself for it.
10:30 Unfortunately, when we were depressed,
10:32 we don't feel like doing those life tasks
10:34 and this is where support systems
10:35 around us are vital.
10:38 And we tend to isolate ourselves
10:40 when we were depressed.
10:41 We don't want to be near others.
10:43 But those who are in our support sys
10:44 need to be aware of this,
10:46 and kind of invite themselves into their space
10:50 when they're really feeling so down
10:51 that they don't want to do these daily life tasks.
10:54 You said the message
10:55 when people stop engaging in the...
10:57 What do you call a DLT not BLT?
11:00 Not to be confused with BLT is that the message
11:02 there is I don't matter, I'm insignificant
11:05 and when you engage in the action of actually
11:08 caring for yourself...
11:11 You're effectively affirming...
11:13 You're changing. The belief...
11:15 And sometimes we have to refute those false beliefs
11:18 That's why they're called "Cognitive behavioral."
11:20 Sometimes, if you think
11:21 there is a bogeyman in the closet,
11:23 the best way to refute that is to go walk in that closet.
11:26 And another point that you brought up
11:27 that I thought it was really important
11:28 was that we need to address the cause,
11:30 because sometimes, many times depression is caused
11:34 by remorse for sin, by unforgiveness,
11:37 lack of forgiveness, guilt,
11:39 and if we don't address these things,
11:41 here we address the lifestyle changes
11:43 and when the person is just going to continue
11:45 being depressed.
11:46 And they look six years longer in utter misery,
11:48 and we do not want that, we want people to have life
11:51 and have it more abundantly.
11:52 So what do you do though
11:53 that's so personal like remorse for sin,
11:57 how do you address that with clients
11:59 and how do you get them to deal with forgiveness issues?
12:02 Really using scripture
12:04 and that's where scripture comes in.
12:06 How can someone learn to forgive them,
12:09 forgive whoever it might be.
12:12 And so a lot of prayer, allow the Holy Spirit coming in
12:15 and really it's a lot of spiritual counseling.
12:20 So you mentioned in your book also spiritual depression.
12:22 What do you mean by spiritual depression,
12:25 versus just generic depression?
12:27 I actually do a breakdown where I make...
12:29 Draw a parallel between
12:30 clinical and spiritual depression,
12:31 looking at symptomatology.
12:33 And some of the things
12:34 that you've expressed Christina,
12:36 I've seen in my clients
12:37 that may have either sleeping too much or not enough,
12:39 eating too much or not enough
12:41 and also insomnia those type of things.
12:43 Isolation, you know, especially from people, places,
12:45 and things that remind you of church or Christianity,
12:49 I've seen that happen to a lot of people
12:50 and so someone would do with organic depression,
12:54 they do the same thing with spiritual depression
12:56 trying to distance themselves from those things
12:58 they see as painful God doesn't love me,
13:01 I'm not lovable, I'm not worthy,
13:02 those kind of things.
13:04 So people with spiritual depression are shutting God
13:06 and religion out of there lives typically?
13:08 Typically and they may not even recognize that that's the core
13:11 or that's the source of their depression.
13:13 They may have gone to physicians
13:15 or the people who have tried to diagnose
13:17 a more organic depression but it doesn't really add up.
13:19 Yeah. You know.
13:21 And surrender is...
13:22 I believe the solution to the spiritual depression.
13:26 I have seen clients recover just quickly, once they have,
13:30 once they're able to truly surrender things to the Lord
13:32 and really listen to what he has to tell them,
13:35 as Paul Coneff was talking about but also I think
13:38 the worst type of depression
13:39 that I've treated is that which is caused by burnout.
13:43 I find that has a very slow recovery process
13:46 because they physically and mentally have truly burnt,
13:50 they're burnout.
13:51 There're something organic
13:53 to tap into the result to overwork.
13:55 It's that...
13:56 So you find that to be more difficult than generic...
13:59 Even spiritual depression that's interesting.
14:02 I wanna go back to this for a moment,
14:03 Jesus himself experienced depression.
14:08 And you talked about surrender
14:11 and I just see how counselor's job
14:13 is very much in a sense
14:15 an apologist or someone who really presents God
14:18 in such a way that people want to receive him
14:20 'cause who would want to surrender to someone
14:21 that they don't trust.
14:24 So we first have to show God's trust worthiness
14:26 to people and how do we do that to people
14:28 that are feeling a sense of despair
14:31 like their life is a waste,
14:32 like there is nothing to live for.
14:34 I think the best thing would be to show them
14:36 a savior who actually carried that burden for them
14:39 all the way to the cross.
14:40 I think it's also important to help them reconnect
14:43 with positives
14:44 that have happened in their life.
14:46 I know about you Christina
14:47 but many of the people I've worked with
14:48 they have selective memory
14:50 they only focus on the negative things
14:51 that are happening.
14:53 Yeah, dichotomous thinking. Yes, thank you.
14:54 So it's good to get them to acknowledge and remember
14:57 the blessings, okay.
14:59 Do not lose track of the blessings
15:01 'cause if you help a person think back
15:02 they will have to admit, "Well, wow, yeah,
15:04 I don't know how I got through that situation.
15:06 Things important to realize though
15:07 and acknowledge that
15:09 when one is depressed that is where the mind goes.
15:12 It's hard to tap into the goodness,
15:13 to the health, to the blessings
15:15 and so reminding of that is so vital.
15:17 Well, I think that's part of our job.
15:19 You know, it's taking people back to those things and say,
15:21 "Hey, remember these things, 'cause you got through
15:22 a difficult time nothing but the grace of Jesus,
15:25 and then get them through then say
15:26 you can get through this time and then goes Bible texts
15:28 that you've referred to I think it'll help.
15:30 Can I give a quick example? Sure, go ahead.
15:32 I was counseling with the young girl,
15:35 she was nine and she came into my office one day
15:38 and she said, "I've had a horrible, horrible week,"
15:41 and I said "What happened?"
15:42 And she said, "Well, I've got burnt here,
15:45 I lost a tooth and I got a cold sore."
15:48 And so I asked her, "Oh, I'm sorry."
15:50 I told her sorry about all that,
15:51 but did anything go well this week?
15:54 And it took her about 20 minutes
15:55 but she came up with five things that went well,
15:58 but it was it took...
16:00 It was like trying to open an oyster.
16:02 Right and these things are actually quiet large things
16:04 that had happened to her she had gone to got a museum
16:07 and someone had bought her some clothing
16:09 and so it was quiet large things but we tend to,
16:11 as you were saying, go to these dark places
16:13 and we don't look at the big picture.
16:16 And as a counselors it's easy for us
16:19 to get sucked into their despair
16:20 and like they want to look at the problems
16:22 and look at the problems
16:23 and we look at the problems with them
16:25 and you got to do that to some degree
16:26 to build empathy,
16:27 but at some point we got to step back and say,
16:29 the biggest problem was
16:31 you're looking at the problems all the time.
16:33 It's the key to CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
16:35 is not to focus in on the symptomatology...
16:37 Right. Yeah.
16:38 Focusing on strengths, focusing on how we connect
16:40 out thoughts and our behaviors.
16:41 Right. Process not content.
16:43 Yes, absolutely.
16:44 And I just want to testify and say that Jesus has...
16:46 He'd largely healed me from depression.
16:49 I still have the tendency but I'm an artist
16:52 and I lean in that direction
16:54 and I've had heavy experiences of feeling
16:57 like there was a grand piano on my chest and it's very...
17:00 It sucks you in, it's just...
17:02 It's really intense and then if you setup that feedback loop
17:05 where your negative emotions become evidence...
17:09 Of what's really going on
17:10 then you've created a feedback loop
17:11 and it never ends because you feel negative
17:14 about feeling negative and it just cycles down,
17:17 so Jesus was able to pull me out of that and I'm grateful.
17:20 Yeah. Amen.
17:21 And that's part of our process as counselors is to help people
17:25 to see that the hope that there is.
17:27 The good that's in their life
17:29 and we talked about journaling in the past
17:31 and I love to and focus journal about the good
17:33 because otherwise we would just totally forget about it,
17:36 go back and remember the good.
17:37 Can I add one last point? Sure.
17:39 I think of Jesus when he was in the desert
17:42 and every single time he was tempted to believe something
17:45 that the devil wanted him to believe, he would say
17:48 "It is written,
17:50 it is written, it is written."
17:53 The truth is up in the document itself.
17:55 Right. Not in the temptation.
17:59 So we can do the same thing with whatever.
18:01 Well, first when you identify those thoughts of course
18:03 and bring thought into obedience and how's it...
18:06 To captivity to the obedience of Jesus Christ.
18:08 That's right.
18:10 And then be able to replace that with truth,
18:12 right and the truth will set us free.
18:15 Do a presenting problem real quick?
18:16 Yeah. Okay.
18:18 Tamika, a 29-year-old, upper middle class mother
18:20 of Jamaican Heritage, with two small children
18:23 presents with severe depression over the last several months.
18:26 She feels overwhelmed by her responsibilities
18:29 and cannot seem to function as a stay-at-home mom.
18:31 Her husband, a 30-year-old second generation
18:34 Romanian immigrant and mechanical engineer
18:36 working for General Motors
18:38 provides well for the family but feels bewildered
18:41 by his wife's difficulties given their beautiful home
18:44 and their healthy children.
18:45 She reports that he has insisted
18:47 that she get help for her depression
18:50 and this is why she is here.
18:52 So this is a classic presentation,
18:54 she's got everything that would normally make a person happy
18:59 or we would think would make a person happy
19:01 but she lacks something inside
19:04 to get to that place of contentment.
19:07 And by the way, I don't think God wants us to have
19:09 elated feelings all the time but I do think our default mode
19:13 according to design is one of joy
19:15 there is a wonderful book called 'Return to joy'
19:17 you know, and I think
19:19 that's what God wants for us ideally
19:20 and that we're capable of that.
19:22 It doesn't mean that we wouldn't deviate
19:24 from that sometimes and feel sometimes very intense sorrow
19:27 in a response to some of life's difficulties.
19:30 But I think God does want us to be...
19:33 The purpose of life is not to be happy.
19:34 The purpose of life is to glorify God
19:36 and to grow into his image.
19:38 I'm firm on that
19:39 but a byproduct of that is joy.
19:42 And God wants us to be happy.
19:44 So what would you do for this woman?
19:47 I think one of the first things that came to mind
19:49 and you've probably heard me say this
19:50 in other programs and other instances
19:52 but she has two small children
19:55 and the first thing I do want to know is...
19:57 I wanna get a medical exam and rule out postpartum.
20:00 That's right.
20:01 It's probably one of the first things I want to know.
20:04 Always want to rule out any medical inducing possibilities.
20:08 And then beyond that once we get those tests back
20:11 then we can maybe know what we're dealing with.
20:12 And so I would start with that.
20:14 How long after birth can women suffer from postpartum?
20:17 It can be several months to upwards
20:19 of eight to nine months almost a year
20:21 depending on the individual.
20:23 And I think also depending on what they're disposition
20:25 was before conception and having the child.
20:28 So I think there is a wide continuum, you know,
20:31 not my area of expertise but certainly one
20:33 that I've had several clients hear.
20:35 That's great.
20:37 So you'd get the background and look into
20:38 the medical aspect of this...
20:39 And what was their predisposition,
20:41 because oftentimes people have a predisposition
20:44 for depression or other mental health challenges
20:48 and they were not aware of them.
20:49 Something I would check for...
20:51 That's very good, and something
20:52 I would check for is a history of abuse
20:54 because what is find is that often, at this age,
20:56 right to the end of the '20s, sort of the rush of youth
20:59 is kind of passing away and just the chaos increasing
21:04 as if being a young adult and making all these friends
21:06 and maybe find your life partner
21:08 all of that is kind of fading into a routine
21:10 and now you're a mom at home with children
21:13 and you're facing those four walls everyday
21:15 and if there has been a history of abuse particularly,
21:18 if it was the age of her children,
21:20 she is triggered everyday with those small children
21:24 to remember what happened to her when she was small.
21:26 So I would check for those kinds of things
21:28 that could be feeding the problem, we don't know.
21:31 Yeah, that's what I was going to mention was that
21:33 it says that she's overwhelmed by her responsibilities
21:36 but is it actually her responsibilities
21:38 or is there something else going on
21:40 that's causing something so simple as daily tasks
21:44 that are becoming overwhelming.
21:46 I find that a lot of times right around 30s sometimes
21:49 between, like, 30 and 40, people encounter an experience
21:52 that I call, "Hitting the brick wall,"
21:54 where, I really think our adrenaline tapers
21:57 off a little as we get older and they have time now
22:01 to get depressed and they sometimes start facing
22:04 the meaninglessness of their life, you know,
22:07 and they it's an excellent time for them actually
22:09 to come to know Jesus in a more intimate way
22:12 but it can be shattering,
22:14 it can feel like everything I thought life was going to be
22:17 is now fragmenting into a thousand pieces.
22:20 That's a good point, I mean,
22:22 do we know what her concept of motherhood was or is
22:25 and maybe she, you know, a lot of people have told me
22:27 they don't feel they've measured up.
22:29 So the pressures that you've mentioned
22:30 and what is it that's going on as she is struggling.
22:33 Along with that I'd tap into her husband
22:35 because he seems to have a hard time understanding
22:39 what's going on with her relating or even supporting
22:42 because of their beautiful home and healthy children.
22:45 So he's saying, "We have all we need,
22:46 what's going on with you?"
22:48 And may be there is a materialism,
22:50 kind of, in the ethos of the family
22:52 that is not satisfying to her anymore
22:54 and maybe he's, you know, he's a mechanical engineer
22:56 might not be the most warm fuzzy guy
22:58 on the face of the earth.
22:59 And he is the one insisting that she come to see one of us.
23:02 And I think that's key that lat sentence there.
23:04 She had nested he has insisted
23:06 so maybe she's not even they a voluntary patient here
23:11 may be this is an ultimatum.
23:12 And what do you call that one they have kind of therapy,
23:14 mandated... Mandatory.
23:16 Yeah, mandatory and usually those are the hardest clients.
23:19 Because they don't want to be there.
23:21 Going through the motions.
23:22 In addition to all of that that we've been discussing,
23:24 I would also like to see
23:25 what her time management is like and self-care.
23:29 If she is actually taking time out, you know,
23:31 to do what she needs to do replenish everything
23:34 that she's giving out to her family.
23:36 And her social support systems.
23:38 Someone who has just had a child
23:39 and who's home with the children all the time
23:42 can be lacking of what life was like before
23:45 and do does she have people that she can reach out to?
23:48 Are there other mothers with young children
23:50 that she can connect with and tap into,
23:53 some things I'd look at as well.
23:54 I like to bring in two basic streams of healing
23:58 one is improving brain chemistry with the person
24:01 that's dealing with depression and the other is improving
24:04 their thought life so to speak or their spiritual life.
24:07 And so I bring it all on the table
24:10 and I say let's just try to get your mood up
24:12 let's do everything we can and then I would rather bring
24:15 all the therapeutic elements in, get their mood up
24:19 and then they can start not doing them one by one
24:22 unless they want to keep doing them
24:23 but they can let them not be done for a while
24:27 and as soon as they start relapsing
24:28 then they know that that was really helping me.
24:30 Kind of like a behavioral experiment.
24:32 Yeah, kind of, I mean I just try to get their mood up
24:34 because it's awful to carry that everyday.
24:37 You know as we're giving these tools
24:38 and as we're working through our client
24:40 I also like to give the big picture intermittently
24:43 that the big picture is that God can use everything
24:45 that we experience in life
24:47 to get us where he wants us to be
24:48 and this of course is to be Christ like.
24:50 You've experienced your passive depression
24:52 look where you are today.
24:53 I have a passive depression too.
24:55 And the Lord uses all of it to bring us into a better place
24:59 and this is a picture of hope
25:01 that we can always continue to hold up.
25:03 All things work together, thank you so much.
25:07 So I'm going to start to rap up now
25:08 as we come a little bit toward close here.
25:11 We're talking about how important lifestyle
25:13 needs to be holistic, we're talking about
25:15 let's look at the exercise, the nutrition, the R & R,
25:18 all aspects of their lives,
25:20 because there are so many causes
25:22 that go in depression.
25:23 You mentioned that burnout was really big,
25:25 we mentioned spiritual depression, remorse for sin,
25:28 sin that's been done against us,
25:30 can we teach people how to forgive
25:33 and how to move on this is very vital.
25:37 What else do we have?
25:39 We have guilt, so we need to find out
25:41 what the root cause is and so between the spiritual
25:46 and the clinical depression they're very similar.
25:48 But when we're talking about spiritual depression,
25:50 you mentioned, is God really in the picture?
25:52 And you mentioned how important surrender is.
25:55 We really need to be able to teach
25:56 what surrender looks like,
25:58 and we always go back to Jesus, don't we?
26:00 And what he went through.
26:02 You mentioned he experienced depression
26:04 and he took it to the cross and that he was alone,
26:09 and that he actually paved the way
26:11 and he conquered all
26:13 so that we would not have to go through this
26:15 without somebody like Jesus going through it first.
26:18 Hope has to be through out this entire process
26:21 and part of that is remembering the good.
26:24 We can't just concentrate on the darkness of their lives,
26:26 we have to journal if we will,
26:30 we have to bring them back to the positive,
26:31 the blessings that are in their life
26:33 and as you mentioned, it is written is very powerful.
26:36 Let's go back to that what have we written down
26:38 that is positive and good in our lives.
26:41 Postpartum depression is very big
26:43 that could last up to year
26:44 perhaps so we have to as you mentioned, Jen,
26:48 we have to rule out a lot of the medical, right.
26:50 So again is, has there been
26:52 a medical checkup with depression?
26:55 Time management, self-care,
26:57 support system that's around us,
26:58 all of these things need to be looked at.
27:00 And then I like the way Jen, how you wrapped up
27:04 that there is the brain health,
27:05 there is the chemical imbalances that are going
27:08 on there is the thought life that we can certainly work with
27:11 and there is a lot going on,
27:13 but we have look to at all of that as we can.
27:16 You know, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
27:18 the prophet Isaiah said in chapter 63 verse 9,
27:21 "In all their affliction, He was afflicted,
27:25 and the Angel of his presence saved them,
27:27 in his love and in his pity He redeemed them,
27:30 and he bore them and he carried them
27:32 all the days of old."
27:34 Jesus can carry you thorough this difficult time
27:37 as you wrestle with depression
27:39 or the person you love is wrestling with depression
27:41 and he can bring you up out of a horrible pit,
27:44 as the Psalm has said
27:47 and he can set your feet upon a rock
27:49 and establish your goings have faith in him,
27:52 he wants you to have joy abundant,
27:54 please join us for the next program
27:56 'A Multitude of Counselors.'