Multitude of Counselors

Ego Addiction Detox

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer (Host), Aron Crews, Christina Ceccoto, David Guerrero, Dr. Jean Wright II, Tim Allston

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Series Code: MOC

Program Code: MOC000020A


00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors
00:29 where we don't sidestep the elephant in the Living Room.
00:33 Today we're going to be talking about Ego-Addiction Detox.
00:37 Let me talk to you about
00:38 Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
00:41 It's a part of a cluster of disorders
00:44 that are essentially personality traits
00:46 that come to dominate the person's
00:48 entire character or personality
00:50 and they're actually quite rare...
00:51 there is a one disorder among them called
00:54 Narcissistic Personality Disorder
00:56 which is considered a mental disorder
00:58 in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance,
01:02 a deep need for admiration
01:05 and a lack of empathy for other people.
01:08 Hmmm... how prevalent is
01:10 Narcissistic Personality Disorder?
01:12 Well, actually all personality disorders
01:14 are pretty rare... fortunately...
01:16 We all have character flaws...
01:18 we all have issues... we all have pride...
01:20 we all have lack of empathy sometimes
01:23 but it's rare that that trait
01:25 comes to kind of take over the person's entire personality
01:28 so fortunately, they are rare
01:30 but most that suffer from
01:34 Narcissistic Personality Disorder are male...
01:37 The Cause... narcissism is thought to be underpinned
01:43 by a deep sense of insecurity.
01:46 It's that strange paradox where the person
01:48 seems so confident and so together
01:49 but in reality, you see glimpses sometimes
01:53 of deeply laid insecurity
01:55 and I think we're probably going to be unpacking some of that.
01:57 It's also thought that
01:59 anxious- or avoidant-attachment style
02:02 in childhood
02:03 can set a person up for Narcissistic personality
02:06 but we're not blaming the family because sometimes
02:08 pride takes on a life of its own,
02:10 regardless of how good the parenting is.
02:13 Most people with Narcissistic personalities
02:16 don't believe they need help
02:17 but if they can come to the place
02:20 where they see that there's a problem
02:22 and they're willing to face the
02:23 "elephant in the living room" so to speak,
02:24 then Counseling can be helpful
02:27 because a Counselor can help an individual
02:29 evaluate their life experience,
02:31 see, life experience in and of itself
02:33 doesn't teach us anything
02:34 but evaluated life experience can teach us something
02:38 and it can lead to transformation,
02:40 so we're going to be talking to someone today
02:43 who, maybe could be...
02:46 have been diagnosed at some point in his life
02:48 with narcissistic personality... I don't know...
02:50 you might have a different idea,
02:51 but the title of our show is: Ego-Addiction Detox...
02:55 so it sounds pretty narcissistic to me...
02:57 our guest is Tim Allston...
02:59 he insisted on me using small non-caps for his name
03:04 and I consistently did that,
03:05 I don't know if you caught that,
03:07 but he says that he's a recovered...
03:09 or recovering ego-addict...
03:12 very interesting, so welcome to our Program, Tim,
03:15 I'm so glad you made it here and it was so cool...
03:18 I met Tim on LinkedIn and we went back and forth
03:20 and he agreed to come, so it was awesome.
03:21 So, I also want to introduce our panel of counselors,
03:25 we've got David...
03:26 Biblical Counselor, David Guerrero from Wisconsin,
03:29 so glad you're here David...
03:30 David: Glad to be here...
03:32 Jennifer: And we've got Licensed Professional Counselor,
03:33 from Georgia, Christina Cocotte,
03:36 and we've got Dr. Jean Wright
03:40 from Philadelphia
03:41 and we're so thankful to have each one of you
03:43 on our Program today.
03:45 So, Tim, let's get into your story...
03:48 when did this all start?
03:49 Were you just born kind of egotistical
03:53 or... what happened?
03:54 Tim: Shame on you...
03:56 Laugher...
03:57 Tim: God showed me, Jennifer... that I had a problem,
04:01 bad addiction problem...
04:03 and Jean, it is an addiction problem
04:05 that is older than Planet Earth.
04:07 Jennifer: Yeah.
04:08 Tim: When I began to look at it,
04:10 when I began to look at this whole thing,
04:12 I began to see that the problem that I had...
04:14 is a problem that affects everybody.
04:16 I term it, Christina, as being "ego-holism... "
04:21 like alcoholism...
04:22 ego-holism... which is an addiction to self.
04:25 I defined it as thinking too highly of yourself
04:28 and... or... thinking too little of your God
04:30 and acting excessively upon those impulses...
04:33 and so I began to realize the fact... that I had a problem.
04:35 I had, in 39 years of employment David,
04:39 I have been fired 13 times... 13 times...
04:41 and there was a basic pattern to it...
04:44 year one... learn the job...
04:46 year two... get industry awards...
04:48 year three... get fired...
04:49 and I began to say, "Something is wrong here... "
04:52 and I sat down with a business Christian Counselor
04:55 and she... and we began to talk out different issues
04:57 and she said, "Well, Tim... " I said...
04:59 she said, "You're so charming...
05:01 so articulate...
05:02 you walk in the room... you fill the room. "
05:03 I said, "Yes... "
05:05 I said, "I've always done that until I got married...
05:06 my wife lets me get away with none of that...
05:08 and then the Lord gave me that word...
05:10 the Lord gave me the word... so I guess I'm an ego-holic...
05:15 in need of recovery... "
05:17 She said, "Tim, nobody has written on that subject...
05:20 that's your spiritual DNA... run with it... "
05:23 Jennifer: That is, and that's what caught my attention,
05:24 and I have to say, I was like,
05:26 "This is the elephant in the room...
05:27 and everybody struggles with this issue
05:29 but who's written about it so far?"
05:31 So, was it bred into you from the time you were young?
05:35 Tim: Well, I... and this will come as a shock to you...
05:39 I'm a sinner... like everybody else here...
05:41 all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God,
05:43 but... what really to me...
05:45 if I can pinpoint a date and time...
05:47 I was raised in church school,
05:49 I was a good little fourth-generation Adventist,
05:51 mother was the Principal of the school...
05:53 father was First Elder...
05:54 Jennifer: For the benefit of people
05:56 that may not know what an Adventist is,
05:58 it's a Christian... Seventh-day Adventist Christian,
06:00 so you were raised in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
06:02 with the belief in Jesus and all of that.
06:03 David: And going to Adventist Schools... church schools.
06:05 Tim: And then going to Adventist Schools,
06:06 the world's second largest part of the school system,
06:09 and I just got tired of being "that good boy... "
06:13 I got tired of being... and so I begged my parents...
06:15 because I was 14... I was athletic and we don't...
06:18 in Adventist schools we kind of shun competitive sports,
06:21 I said, "Please let me go to the local High School... "
06:24 my father had gone there, he was a Track Star back in 1938
06:26 I wanted to go there.
06:28 Begrudgingly, they allowed me to leave Church School
06:31 and that began the decline.
06:33 I say it that way because in Faith-based Institutions,
06:37 the focus is on Christ,
06:39 it is Christ centered... Christian centric...
06:41 everything we do is... how does the Bible...
06:43 how does it stack up against Christ?
06:44 But when you go to a non-faith-based institution,
06:47 the focus is on you... "Be all you can be... "
06:51 "Be the best you could be... "
06:52 so it's focused on you... ego... egocentric...
06:55 and I began that almost imperceptible slide
07:00 away from Christian centrism to egocentrism.
07:03 Wow! so it was something that was within you
07:07 but until you got in that environment
07:09 where it was overtly encouraged,
07:12 you didn't really step over that threshold,
07:14 but then, you were in the environment,
07:16 you stepped over the threshold, what happened from there?
07:18 Well, like the prodigal son's story in Luke,
07:21 I said to my parents in 8th grade...
07:23 "Give me my inheritance... " so they gave me my smarts...
07:28 my professionalism, my articulation, my charm,
07:33 and my being easy-on-the-eyes,
07:35 so I took my S P A C E
07:37 but because it had no spiritual grounding,
07:39 I became a S P A C E... a Space Cadet
07:43 I was just out here... just doing...
07:46 pimping off of those skills and values and experiences
07:50 and exposures... from Church-School education
07:53 but using them in a secular...
07:56 and using them in a non-God glorifying way.
07:59 And, so you're in the Corporate world at this point
08:02 and you're good at obtaining positions
08:05 and yet you follow this trajectory
08:09 of one year of ramping up, doing more than your...
08:13 you're excelling and then...
08:17 something happens... what happens?
08:19 What began to happen is the fact
08:20 that I began to become exposed.
08:22 I began to become less than that résumé...
08:25 less than that persona and what began to happen is
08:29 I began to lose jobs and after losing that 13th job,
08:33 I said, "Something... whoa, whoa, whoa,
08:35 there is a pattern here... "
08:36 and I began to realize... the pattern wasn't the jobs,
08:39 it wasn't racism...
08:41 it wasn't anything else... it was Tim Allston...
08:43 I was an ego-holic...
08:45 I had focused on being bigger than I was,
08:48 but also, as you said in the opening,
08:50 I also got Narcissistic Personality Disorder...
08:53 never met a mirror I didn't like...
08:56 Ah ha... I'm interested in what you guys have to say about this
09:00 because it's really hard to get through the wall
09:05 a narcissistic person puts up...
09:07 as a Counselor... someone that's trying to help people,
09:10 you see people destroying themselves
09:12 and you want to go to help them but they're ego is so sensitive
09:15 that you question anything about them
09:17 and immediately the wall gets higher,
09:19 and so, apparently,
09:21 somehow the wall got broken down for you
09:24 do you guys run into this
09:25 where you try to help people not be so narcissistic
09:28 and it ends up backfiring?
09:30 You know what I'm talking about?
09:31 One question that comes to my mind, as I'm listening to you
09:34 that would be helpful to the audience and myself is...
09:38 you say God revealed to you that you are having a problem,
09:42 how did God reveal that to you
09:44 because oftentimes there's struggle... there's tension...
09:47 when God is trying to get my attention and I'm resisting,
09:50 how did God reveal that to you
09:51 and what was your first response to God?
09:53 All: Laughter. Jennifer: "No... "
09:55 Tim: "Not me... "
09:57 through prayer... through fasting...
10:00 and through a wife who would take no prisoners...
10:03 I began to replay the situations in my life
10:06 and began to see where I had done a lot of things wrong
10:11 had hurt people... had drained people...
10:13 either with a big ego at times
10:15 or drained people with a little ego at times.
10:17 Jennifer: The insecurities... yeah.
10:19 Tim: Yes, yes, I mean... I remember
10:20 let me... for example... when I went to college,
10:22 there were 2,300 students in the school,
10:24 I'd never been to that school before
10:25 that first day I said,
10:27 "I'm going to become the Student Body President"
10:28 it was insecurity...
10:30 so I began my campaign and became Student Body President
10:33 not because I was the most articulate...
10:35 not because I was the most... the best builder...
10:38 it was out of insecurity...
10:40 Christina: I was just wondering,
10:42 if you could expand upon that insecurity,
10:44 what beliefs did you have about yourself
10:47 that motivated you to try to be the best?
10:49 Tim: When I got there to college for example,
10:51 I didn't know a single person on the campus,
10:53 I knew I had a scholarship there so...
10:55 and I knew I was coming out of a very, very strong
10:59 Christian Seventh-day Adventist environment,
11:00 in a non-Seventh-day Adventist...
11:02 non-Christian school...
11:03 so the social... some of the social things...
11:05 I'd never been partying before or drinking before...
11:08 so, there was a sense of insecurity
11:11 and plus some of the... most of the students there...
11:13 some of them knew each other,
11:14 they'd been in social clubs together...
11:15 they knew each other...
11:17 and so, I was there... that lone person...
11:19 and out of that sense of insecurity...
11:22 I, as I said, put on those Adam-and-Eve fig leaves
11:26 covered that... by running for
11:28 and becoming the Student Body President.
11:30 Christina: A fear of not being liked?
11:32 Tim: Yes, yes...
11:33 and I remember once when I was in school,
11:35 went into a teacher's office, brand-new teacher...
11:37 1975... had a sign on the wall saying "Prosperity...
11:40 spending money you don't have... to buy things you don't need...
11:43 to impress people you don't even like. "
11:46 Jennifer: Laughter "That's my life... "
11:48 Tim: And I said, "That's me... "
11:50 I'm spending all this time trying to mask my insecurities.
11:54 Jean: I find it interesting, Jennifer,
11:56 your question about having treated people with NPD
11:58 and as a Clinical Psychologist, I have done that many times
12:01 and the biggest challenge that I had was
12:03 what you said about hurting others...
12:05 and yet, a lot of the clients that I had at the time...
12:08 not being able to see how they have hurt others...
12:11 whether family members or friends or co-workers...
12:14 and so if you would...
12:15 if you could just share a little bit more about
12:17 how you were able to recognize
12:18 that you were not only hurting yourself,
12:20 but then, you were also hurting people you love...
12:22 people you cared about
12:23 and maybe even some folks you didn't know that well
12:25 but there was a blanket of hurt that was going around
12:27 because of the ego.
12:29 Tim: Okay, let me try... let me try to answer that...
12:30 go back to the question that you asked
12:32 about "How did God reveal?"
12:33 As I began to replay the video tape of my life,
12:38 I began to realize that there were mileposts along the way
12:41 that were going to help me
12:43 and one of the things that hit me was
12:44 going back to the song we used to sing...
12:46 in Kindergarten in church...
12:48 "It's me, it's me, it's me, O Lord,
12:50 standing in the need of prayer... "
12:52 not my mother, not my father, not my preacher, not my teacher"
12:54 so what I began to say is,
12:56 there's nobody else in my universe that I can control,
12:59 but Tim Allston...
13:01 so it's got to start with Tim Allston
13:03 to try to make those corrections in my life,
13:06 you know, I can... I can beg and plead
13:09 and control my wife... I can threaten my daughter...
13:11 but ultimately, I don't control them...
13:14 Jennifer: So I'm going to give you the psycho-babble for that
13:17 it's... you went from an external locus of control
13:19 to an internal locus of control from... life happens to me...
13:24 to, "Wait a minute, I have choices...
13:26 what can I change... what is within my power
13:28 rather than focusing on what's outside of my circle of power. "
13:31 Tim: Yeah, and I don't know
13:33 if I really totally answered your question, Jean, or not
13:35 but one thing that's happened to me in recovery
13:37 is... I play the scenario of the disciples
13:42 at the Last Supper when Jesus said,
13:44 "One of you is going to betray me... "
13:46 and they all... 11 of them...
13:48 said, "Lord, is it I...?"
13:50 initially, Jesus was talking about Judas,
13:53 but ultimately, it was those other... eleven...
13:57 Jennifer: It was all of them.
13:58 Tim: You know, and so, I go through every scenario...
14:00 almost by default... "Lord, is it I...?"
14:03 and typically, the answer is, "Yes, Tim... "
14:06 typically the answer is, "Yes... "
14:08 and I can start from there, if something's wrong with you,
14:10 something's wrong with you Christina,
14:11 there's nothing I can do about you,
14:12 but I can start with Tim Allston and with God's help
14:15 and that's what ego-holism recovering is about,
14:18 ego-holism says, "I'm going to do this... "
14:21 ego-holism recovery says,
14:22 "You can't cure it, solve it or eliminate it...
14:25 but when you partner with God...
14:27 the two of you become a majority. "
14:28 David: That's key for me because as you were talking,
14:31 one of the questions I was going to have... but you answered it
14:33 was, "How did Tim Allston control Tim Allston?"
14:36 Because Tim Allston can't control Tim Allston...
14:38 and then you gave us the answer...
14:40 you said, "Through Christ in me...
14:41 Tim: It took decades to learn that.
14:43 David: "hope of glory was able to control Tim Allston... "
14:45 Tim: It is so interesting, I mean,
14:48 on the simplest thing... I mean, research tells us
14:51 that the average human being
14:52 makes over 15,000 decisions every day,
14:54 I can tell... as I read "The Great Controversy" book
14:57 that every decision we make boils down to
14:59 "Are you with the Prince of Light
15:01 or with the Prince of Darkness?"
15:02 Jennifer: Yeah, and we go back and forth
15:05 so none of us is really on one side or the other
15:07 at this point but there will come a time
15:09 when people take their stand on one side or the other.
15:11 Tim: It's not won and done... I wish it were.
15:12 Jennifer: So, I believe that Counselors
15:15 actually work with people on character development
15:17 and even if they're not religious people, per se,
15:20 we can actually help them
15:22 in their preparation for Jesus' coming.
15:24 you know, maybe the religion will come later
15:26 but what would you say is to us
15:28 as to how to work with people that have a pride issue
15:31 and they're sabotaging themselves
15:34 and the evidence is there but they're not seeing it,
15:36 how do we get past that defense?
15:38 Don't you guys want to know, like...?
15:39 Jean: Absolutely.
15:41 Jennifer: How do we work more effectively
15:42 with hard cases like you...
15:44 Tim: Well, I have a seven-step recovery process
15:48 because I'm an ego-holic,
15:50 I call it, "The Ten Commandments"
15:52 All: Laughter...
15:56 Tim: And... because there are seven steps
15:58 and there are three steps before that.
15:59 David: So it's not the Ten Commandments...
16:01 Tim: It's my own Ten Commandments.
16:03 The first step is: Target the Problem.
16:04 It's not going to be a problem to you calling it a problem.
16:06 David: Identify it...
16:08 Tim: Yeah, identify it,
16:09 you've got to put a bull's eye on it...
16:11 Jennifer: You got to admit it... Tim: You got to admit it...
16:12 Bob Schieffer said, when they diagnosed him...
16:14 Bob Schieffer of Face the Nation...
16:15 when he got diagnosed in 2003 with cancer,
16:18 he said the toughest problem was saying,
16:20 "I have cancer... "
16:21 that's where it starts...
16:23 that's "T" of Take it to the top...
16:24 "O" is to own the problem...
16:26 "Not my mother, not my father, but it's me O Lord...
16:27 standing in the need of prayer... "
16:29 the person has a pride issue, have them define what "pride" is
16:32 pride is self-exaltation... so even if you have...
16:35 even if you have pride in your school colors
16:39 or pride in your sports team, it's all about self-exaltation.
16:42 Now, in one of your earlier shows, Jennifer,
16:45 you all dealt with issue of conflict...
16:46 and you said that Sister White talks about the fact
16:49 that self-development is where it begins... it does...
16:51 the problem with most of us from my observation is...
16:54 we stay at self-development too long...
16:58 we've got to view it like I view Ellis Island...
17:00 Ellis Island is where people came from Eastern Europe
17:03 to disembark...
17:05 but they couldn't put up pictures...
17:06 they couldn't plant flowers, they couldn't plant...
17:08 because the job was to get in and get out...
17:10 too many of us get stuck at self-help...
17:11 too many of us get stuck at self-confidence...
17:13 self gets you started...
17:15 but it's not where you need to go...
17:17 you need to move from self-confidence
17:18 to God-Confidence...
17:19 Self-esteem to God-esteem.
17:21 I mean, I'll start with self-confidence,
17:22 but I've got to kick it to God...
17:25 because He's the undefeated partner.
17:27 David: Okay, so what I hear you saying is that
17:28 God helps me to identify my problem
17:31 and then I've got to give that problem to God...
17:34 not handle it myself...
17:35 Tim: Yes. David: Okay.
17:36 Tim: It's not a mirror... it's the two-way mirror...
17:38 and every time I pick up my Bible,
17:40 I'm finding myself in one of those characters...
17:43 and that's the beauty of God...
17:45 that the more I dig into His Word...
17:48 which is the love letter to the human race...
17:50 the more I dig into it...
17:51 the more I see just how unworthy I am...
17:53 and that's why I spell my name with lower-case letters...
17:57 I feel so insecure... I feel so insignificant...
18:01 stacked against my heavenly Father.
18:03 All: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
18:05 Jennifer: What... Jean, what typically happens
18:08 to people with narcissistic personalities?
18:10 They typically end up incarcerated
18:12 or do you see a disproportionate number of them?
18:13 Jean: I see a disproportionate number of them.
18:15 Jennifer: I just want you to know how lucky you are.
18:16 Tim: Or... or it's a foretaste. David: Of things to come...
18:22 Jennifer: We going to continue to lift you up in prayer Brother
18:23 Tim: Thank you... Christina, you're going to pray for me?
18:25 Okay, thank you.
18:26 David: So you thought it over.
18:28 Jean: Because... because as a Forensic Psychologist
18:32 obviously I deal with a lot of folks that go in and out of jail
18:35 so your premise is very well-stated
18:38 and that is because if you are really focused
18:41 and invested in keeping yourself at the level you think
18:44 people want you to be
18:45 or you're trying to portray a certain thing,
18:47 you will do anything to stay there...
18:49 and so, many of the clients that I've had...
18:51 will risk it all
18:53 to keep the persona...
18:54 the perception... Jennifer: Their freedom...
18:56 Jean: Yes... and so... including their freedom
18:58 and so they will hurt people to keep quiet,
19:00 they will do things to keep them at the same level...
19:02 they will do things and say things
19:05 that make people believe
19:06 what they are... that they're not...
19:08 if you understand what I'm saying...
19:10 whatever it is that they've invested in...
19:11 whatever they have...
19:13 they will do anything to keep it at that level
19:14 and to keep the truth
19:16 underneath that insecurity you're talking about.
19:18 Tim: But here's the thing, so their idea is no good.
19:21 David: So they're still in prison...
19:23 the prison of self...
19:25 Jennifer: Yeah, they just end up validating that in prison...
19:28 Jean: Imagine this... imagine somebody comes...
19:31 imagine somebody coming before you
19:32 that isn't... that's locked up that still is maintaining
19:35 the stories before they got locked up
19:37 as if they still are true...
19:39 not admitting that that life and that situation
19:42 didn't really happen.
19:43 Jennifer: With that much evidence... still doesn't
19:45 cause them to sort of cave in and reevaluate.
19:46 Jean: They never cave in... they never cave in.
19:48 Christina: Interesting how we tend to go to extremes...
19:50 we are very dichotomous...
19:51 I don't know if it's just America...
19:53 Jennifer: No, no, no... it's humanity.
19:55 Christina: Right, we're very dichotomous...
19:56 we are so insecure
19:57 so we overcorrect as we do in driving
19:59 when we're trying to avoid an obstacle,
20:01 we tend to end up flipping...
20:03 when we're trying to get through the obstacle,
20:04 so, we go to the... way extreme...
20:06 to trying to fix that
20:08 but what I love about God is that
20:10 when we follow His Word...
20:11 and it talks about not comparing ourselves to others
20:14 because that's one of the things that can cause us
20:16 to either have... feel insecure
20:18 or feel very prideful...
20:21 when we compare ourselves to Him...
20:23 when we compare ourselves to Him,
20:25 then we can see our true condition,
20:26 we don't have blind spots anymore,
20:28 and we're able to be transformed as you're describing.
20:31 David: Amen.
20:32 Tim: And the thing that you point... I loved about...
20:34 people you can count... soar, soar, soar...
20:36 leadership magnifies defects...
20:39 All: Hmmm... hmmm...
20:40 Tim: Leadership magnifies defects.
20:42 David: Explain that... explain that some more...
20:44 Tim: As we go up...
20:46 what we don't correct at the early stages,
20:49 comes out even more and more and more...
20:53 Jennifer: Is it just that people are seeing it better
20:54 because we're more visible
20:56 or is it because it's a more intense expression of it...
20:58 Tim: The answer is yes... to both... both... yes...
21:01 I mean, if I may...
21:03 Bill Cosby didn't become that way... all of a sudden...
21:08 Jared Fogle the spokesman for Subway
21:10 didn't become that way all of a sudden,
21:13 our President didn't become that way all of a sudden...
21:16 but as you move to upper echelons
21:17 and you get to that thinner rarified air...
21:19 I've now written a book...
21:22 it leads me to a whole 'nother class of people...
21:24 I'm now an author... more of my warts are showing...
21:27 more of my potholes are showing than ever before...
21:30 and that's what I want...
21:31 because I got to get to heaven to see His face.
21:34 Jennifer: What is the hope here,
21:35 if you know that you have an ego problem
21:38 or if you're on the other end of the spectrum
21:40 where you have low self-esteem
21:41 and you feel like you're not good enough...
21:42 because we've agreed that's the same foundation...
21:44 it's still the desire to measure against other people positively,
21:49 what do you do?
21:50 Tim: Number one... Don't trust yourself...
21:54 you don't trust yourself...
21:56 my slogan is... "Less Tim... more Him...
22:00 less Tim... more Him... "
22:01 Jennifer: It's a good thing your name rhymes with "Him. "
22:03 Tim: It helps... it helps... thank my mother...
22:05 but the other thing you do is you turn to the Bible...
22:08 in Step 1 in Book one,
22:10 I will talk about "Truth tellers... "
22:12 Truth tellers are those things...
22:14 people... things and activities that reveal us to us
22:17 in a very discomforting way...
22:19 the Bible... when you look at the Bible...
22:21 you say to yourself, "Do I have an ego problem?"
22:23 The Bible says, "Oh yeah... "
22:24 You know, you talk to your spouse, your kids,
22:26 your co-workers... your bowling buddies...
22:30 they have been drained by us all this time...
22:34 you've got to ask them... but you stay in the Word...
22:37 you learn not to your own understanding...
22:40 it's not a done deal...
22:41 every day you've got to keep coming up to bat...
22:43 Jennifer: And talk to us about your wife... how did she...
22:45 you said, "She takes no prisoners... "
22:47 what... was it her character
22:49 and if she's committed but also willing to confront...
22:52 or is it just the nature of marriage
22:54 that you're stuff comes out?
22:56 Tim: I think it's the nature of marriage...
22:57 Jean and I were talking earlier
22:59 because he's a native Philadelphian
23:01 and I'm a native Bostonian
23:02 and how much we both hate each other's teams...
23:04 who else will pay the Los Angeles Lakers...
23:06 David: That's okay...
23:07 Tim: And so what God gave... humility...
23:08 you have to marry a person who's from Los Angeles...
23:11 who played basketball in college with Magic Johnson's sisters...
23:14 whose parents will go to Lakers' games...
23:16 I said, "God... your sense of humor, God, is killing me... "
23:19 Jennifer: But you had a choice in the matter, didn't you?
23:20 Tim: Somewhat...
23:22 Jennifer: It wasn't an arranged marriage.
23:23 Tim: For sure... this is what ego-holism does...
23:25 ego-holism said... my wife is sandpaper...
23:26 she loved me the wrong way...
23:28 "ego-holism covering" said... "She's sandpaper...
23:30 what she's doing is smoothing your edges... "
23:32 Jennifer: Oh I see, so, what did she do specifically...
23:34 did she just face you with your stuff
23:36 or threaten to leave?
23:38 Tim: No, no, no... she hasn't threatened to leave yet...
23:40 and after 22 years, she hasn't threatened to leave
23:42 but she will confront me...
23:44 she'll say, "What did you mean by that,
23:47 did you mean to say that?"
23:48 and I'll go... I'll be mad but I'll go and pray
23:51 and the next thing I'm saying, "You know, you were right... "
23:54 that's painful to admit error... it's painful...
23:56 you know... but... I got to get to heaven...
23:59 Jennifer: So I mentioned that more men have NPD than women
24:03 and I think it's related to testosterone
24:06 because testosterone is responsible
24:08 for the feeling of confidence,
24:09 so you think more...
24:11 you know, kind of chemically-induced confidence...
24:12 you're going to have more pride...
24:15 I think women too... what's that?
24:17 Christina: With the expectations of Society...
24:19 Jennifer: And the expectations of Society...
24:21 socializing as well...
24:22 I think that women do a terrible disservice
24:24 that... I think they're kind of...
24:26 their role is often to help their husbands
24:30 and help check excessive ego issues...
24:33 I think that's often the case
24:35 and I think they do a terrible disservice
24:36 when they won't confront,
24:38 but I'm saying this as a woman...
24:39 it's uncomfortable to confront,
24:40 because we are so relationally wired...
24:42 we want to hang on to that relationship...
24:45 we want everybody around us to be well-fed... happy...
24:47 cheerful... we don't want any emotional distress...
24:50 and so, because we're so empathic,
24:52 we end up avoiding confrontation
24:54 because it does cause... at least temporary discomfort
24:57 and so, bless your wife
24:59 for being willing to deal with that discomfort...
25:00 tell her... I love her...
25:02 Tim: Don't say that...
25:03 she's going to get that statement notarized...
25:05 David: Is your ego at work now?
25:07 Tim: Oh... talk to my agent...
25:10 David: Okay...
25:12 Tim: That's why I've entitled this book:
25:15 "7 Steps to Manage Ego Problems"
25:16 the sub-title says:
25:18 "The How-To Guide for Somebody Else"
25:19 and then most people pick it up... they say,
25:21 "Oh, my husband needs this... "
25:23 I would go... nodding head... David: Yeah...
25:24 Christina: I was just wondering...
25:26 I kind of want to go back to what you have said originally...
25:28 you said that the first thing is to admit
25:31 that you have an ego issue... and I'm just wondering,
25:33 how did you get to that... how did you get to admitting...
25:36 like how long did it take for you to admit
25:39 and how did that process go?
25:40 Tim: I said, "Something's wrong... "
25:43 I had just become an entrepreneur...
25:45 early-stage entrepreneur...
25:47 got a good big contract
25:48 to do the PR marketing for a company...
25:50 I was rolling... in six weeks... I got canned...
25:54 and the client said,
25:57 "Tim, you needed help with this project
26:00 and trying to be... doing it all yourself...
26:01 you needed help but you wouldn't ask for help...
26:04 firing you is just going to be the best thing
26:06 that ever happened to you as an early-stage entrepreneur,
26:07 talent is not your problem... "
26:09 and I said, "If it ain't talent, then what is it?"
26:13 That... that question... created the question...
26:15 Jennifer: Hmmm... David: Yeah... Jean: Yeah...
26:17 Jennifer: You can't really fake character, you know.
26:19 Tim: No...
26:21 Jennifer: You can have all the talent in the world
26:22 but there's going to come a point where you need character
26:24 and you can't fake that it has to be real...
26:27 you can fake talent... or you can fake...
26:29 you can be charming or whatever...
26:31 David: And the genius of God in all of this...
26:33 and in all of our lives...
26:34 and this is the story... this is what I'm hearing...
26:37 is that God was with you in your journey
26:39 trying to get your attention all along the way...
26:42 and at some point... and it happens to us all...
26:45 we do confront ourselves...
26:46 and the Bible says this, it says,
26:48 "Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,
26:51 that He may exalt you in due time:
26:53 Cast all your cares upon Him; for He cares for you. "
26:57 Jennifer: So you experienced humility in the context of love,
27:00 it's not, like, "You're an idiot,
27:01 you're proud... we hate you... "
27:03 it's, "I love you, you've got a problem. "
27:05 David: Yeah, and we cast it to God.
27:07 Jennifer: That's right. Christina: And I think too...
27:08 Jennifer: And we humble ourselves.
27:10 David: Yes.
27:11 Christina: I think we really have to make sure we pray
27:12 that God brings the appropriate people
27:14 to ask those kinds of questions
27:17 or I guess, he didn't ask you a question
27:19 but he made a statement,
27:20 and... because sometimes family members...
27:22 or sometimes those close to you
27:24 tend to be not able to
27:26 really be able to say the message that's needed.
27:29 Jennifer: So, I would like to issue
27:31 a little homework assignment
27:32 for those of you that have been taking in this Program,
27:34 I would like you to ask
27:36 those closest to you... those that you trust
27:38 that you know will tell you the truth,
27:40 "Do I have an ego problem, am I proud,
27:43 or am I draining you because of my insecurities?"
27:45 Go home and ask them that
27:47 because pride goes before a fall...
27:48 it was pride that started the sin problem in the universe,
27:51 Tim has nailed this issue...
27:52 I'm so thankful... keep his ministry in prayer,
27:55 pray that God keeps him humble
27:56 and keeps all of us humble as well.
27:58 God bless you, thank you for joining us.


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Revised 2017-08-23