Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170027A
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00:26 Welcome to Multitude of Counselors.
00:28 We're so thankful 00:29 that you've come to our program today. 00:30 We're going to be talking about tyranny, 00:33 dictatorship, and mental health. 00:35 And our guest today is Jaime Jorge. 00:38 Jaime experienced what very few of us experience 00:41 and that is living under a political dictatorship. 00:44 At the tender age of nine years old, 00:47 he was offered by the government, 00:48 by the communist government a scholarship to go to Moscow 00:52 to study music. 00:54 And he was told he would be given that scholarship 00:56 on one condition 00:57 that he would renounce his faith in God. 01:00 And at nine years old, Jaime said, "No." 01:04 I was thinking about the subject matter of today. 01:06 And I found a wonderful paper online 01:10 called Tyranny and Mental Health 01:12 by Riadh Abed. 01:14 And I want to quote him, because he says this so well, 01:17 I'm going to read for a little bit here. 01:19 He says, so we can get kind of an idea of what it's like, 01:22 psychologically to be under a dictatorship. 01:26 Quote, "It is under totalitarian regimes, 01:29 that the removal of the last vestiges of protection 01:33 for the individual 01:34 against the might of the state takes place. 01:38 Society is re-engineered 01:40 under the guiding principles of the state ideology 01:42 which can be communism, nationalism, 01:44 fundamentalism, etc." 01:45 It's not about the philosophy, 01:46 the ideology, it's about the control. 01:49 In a process that frequently leads to intense suffering, 01:53 mass murder, 01:54 and a variety of mass human rights violations. 01:59 The totalitarian regime relies 02:01 on the loneliness of the individual. 02:03 And I just, I found that so fascinating that it relies 02:06 on the loneliness of the individual 02:08 and then he unpacks, he says, 02:10 "A reality that it actively promotes 02:12 through its policy of atomization of society 02:15 into isolated ineffectual individuals, 02:19 its imposition of a state ideology 02:21 and its systematic use of terror. 02:24 Citizens are systematically deprived 02:27 of autonomous decision-making 02:29 and action in whole areas of life. 02:32 This can result 02:33 in an impaired sense of personal responsibility 02:36 and a tendency to blame outside agencies 02:39 for all negative events." 02:40 In other words, it affects people's consciences, 02:43 their ability to take 02:44 moral responsibility for themselves. 02:47 "Terror is used as a routine instrument of governance 02:51 and not simply as a deterrent or punishment 02:53 to the opponents of the regime. 02:56 The strategies implemented 02:58 are those familiar to all tyrannies 02:59 and include abduction, disappearance, 03:02 confiscation of property, deportation, torture, 03:06 extra-judicial killings 03:08 and a variety of collective punishments. 03:11 However, the totalitarian state demonstrates a unique ability 03:15 to carry out such violations on a scale 03:18 previously unimaginable. 03:21 Thus the victims of Nazi Holocaust, 03:23 Stalin purges, the Cambodian killing fields 03:26 involved millions of victims 03:28 who were not guilty of any conventional crime." 03:31 And the author goes on to state 03:33 that these regimes caused the destruction of trust. 03:37 Society is built on trust. 03:39 The infrastructure society is all about 03:40 people trusting one another. 03:42 They destroy that trust. 03:44 There's control of the media 03:45 and the institutionalization of torture, 03:47 well, not surprisingly, 03:49 there are serious psychiatric ramifications 03:52 of this repression. 03:54 Posttraumatic stress, major depressive disorder, 03:56 anxiety, schizophrenia like states, 03:59 sleep disturbance, sexual dysfunction, 04:01 chronic hyperventilation, I thought that was weird. 04:05 You know, I don't know what it is. 04:07 Cognitive impairment, akin to pseudo dementia. 04:11 And in addition, there are personality changes 04:14 that have been noticed and are actually talked about 04:18 in the ICD 10, 04:19 which is the international diagnostic manual 04:22 for all diseases. 04:23 And the prominent features of these include 04:25 symptoms of apathy, 04:28 you'd see why people wouldn't care anymore. 04:30 They can't affect anything. 04:31 They can't make any difference. 04:32 They can't even control their own lives 04:34 so they become apathetic, chronic tiredness, 04:36 lack of initiative, 04:37 poor concentration and paranoid thoughts. 04:40 We're gonna have an awesome discussion today. 04:42 We have this illustrious panel here. 04:44 Shelly Wiggins, licensed professional counselor 04:46 for Michigan. 04:47 David Guerrero, 04:48 biblical counselor from Wisconsin, 04:51 Dr. Nivischi Edwards from Tennessee. 04:56 I know you're about to move for certain wonderful reasons. 05:00 And our wonderful guest, Jaime Jorge 05:03 or if you say it with the Cuban inflection, 05:07 it would be Jaime Jorge. 05:09 Did I say it right? Yes. 05:11 Okay, good. 05:12 Well, I'll call you Jaime Jorge, 05:13 when I can remember too because I've been calling you 05:15 Jaime Jorge for years. 05:16 Did you know that, behind your back? 05:19 We're so glad you're here. 05:20 And I'm really excited about this discussion. 05:23 And I just want to start by asking you 05:26 when were you first aware? 05:28 I know that this was going on when you were a child? 05:31 When were you first aware 05:32 that you were living under a repressive government? 05:35 Or did you never know anything else? 05:37 And you thought it was just your normal? 05:39 Well, I probably first knew 05:41 when I started attending school. 05:44 And one of the very first things 05:47 that singled you out as a Christian 05:49 was your Young Communist Party scarf. 05:53 Everybody that attend school in Cuba has to wear a uniform. 05:58 And along with that uniform 06:00 which was navy blue shirts or pants, 06:05 white shirt, or burgundy pants or shorts. 06:09 I think now they use a mustard color as well 06:12 for your pants, or shorts, or skirts. 06:15 Now you wear that scarf. 06:17 And that is the scarf that lets everybody know 06:20 that you're a young communist. 06:22 So if you didn't wear a scarf, 06:24 you didn't wear it for two reasons. 06:26 One, because you forgot it at home, 06:28 which was frowned upon or you were a Christian, 06:32 and you purposely did not wear that scarf. 06:35 So the minute you didn't wear your scarf, 06:37 and you would line up with hundreds of other kids 06:39 to pledge allegiance 06:41 and to sing the national anthem. 06:42 You are easy target. Exactly right. 06:43 You can easily be identified from the crowd. 06:46 So then that's when it would all begin. 06:48 So how many in the school 06:49 and how many didn't wear the scarf? 06:52 Hundreds and a handful. 06:55 Maybe under 10 kind of thing? 06:57 Yeah, quite easily. 06:59 And so you are identified, and your teacher, 07:03 or your principal, or other teachers, 07:05 before you even dismiss to go to class, 07:08 they'll start coming over. 07:10 So why aren't you wearing your scarf today? 07:11 And this was a daily thing. 07:13 Well, because I'm a Christian, why are you a Christian? 07:15 They interrogated you every day about it. 07:17 I wouldn't say every day but very frequently. 07:20 I mean, I remember it happening many, many times. 07:22 So you stood out like a sore thumb. 07:24 Exactly, and any Christian, 07:26 young lady or young man would stick out 07:30 and would immediately go through this. 07:33 Then you go into class and you come late, 07:38 and then the students are just wondering 07:42 and asking and mocking you. 07:43 And so it becomes 07:46 and everybody against you feeling 07:49 and you start feeling that early on. 07:51 And this was set up intentionally. 07:53 I think, absolutely, because it's all about 07:56 trying to make sure 07:58 people conform to what they want. 08:01 Okay. I remember one time. 08:04 And this is something that 08:06 that made my parents very upset. 08:08 I felt so accosted 08:13 that I peed in my pants. 08:14 Mercy. 08:16 So now I can laugh at it now. 08:18 But, you know, from a counselor, 08:21 psychological point of view, that's not good apparently, 08:24 and so when I said that to my mother. 08:25 In fact they all just diagnosed you with enuresis. 08:28 That's it. That's right. It's what I imagine. 08:30 One of the many diagnosis I'm sure you're going to have 08:32 before the program is over. 08:34 We're having so much fun already. 08:35 Like the pressure so the intensity of being 08:37 under that scrutiny... 08:38 And so I didn't even realize what was going on 08:41 in other realms, physiologically speaking. 08:45 And so you go through this every day until, 08:48 as that paper was saying, you have no individual thought, 08:52 you have no independence 08:57 because everything is now 08:59 starting to be planned out for you on many, many levels. 09:03 Basically to create you to be a robot under their... 09:07 Regime. That's correct. 09:08 To be what they want you to be. Right. 09:11 So I was very fascinated by how he said it depends on... 09:14 They really inculcate 09:15 the loneliness of the individual, 09:17 or they make that happened. 09:18 They make people lonely. 09:20 Did you have any friends? 09:21 I have friends. 09:23 I had church friends. Okay. 09:24 I had wonderful church friends, but for instance, 09:28 my neighborhood kids or my neighborhood friends 09:34 were not really my friends. 09:36 I would, we had a ball field, we lived outside the city. 09:40 And so there was a ball field 09:41 where people played soccer and baseball, 09:43 two of the main sports that are played in Cuba. 09:46 And almost every time that I would go 09:48 and there was some other Christian friends 09:51 that lived in that neighborhood. 09:53 Almost every time we would go there and we would say, 09:56 "Hey, guys, you're about to play soccer or baseball. 09:58 Can we play?" 09:59 Almost always the answer was the same, 10:01 "We don't play with Christians." 10:03 So even in the neighborhood kids your age 10:06 are already sort of singling you out, 10:08 they're mocking you, they would come and ask us. 10:12 So, you know, where is God? 10:13 Tell us where's God? 10:15 There was a famous cosmonaut, 10:18 Russian cosmonaut by the name Yuri... 10:19 You just have no concept of what it's like 10:22 to live in a world where religion is literally, 10:25 you know, snuffed out, or attempt to be snuffed out 10:27 by the state, like, can you imagine like... 10:29 And that's the aim of communism 10:31 is to replace God with that ideology, 10:34 which is one of the reasons why it is so dangerous. 10:37 Yeah, so I interrupted you, you want to finish? 10:39 Oh, that's okay. 10:40 Getting back to the whole loneliness thing, you'll go, 10:44 you want to play with your "friends," 10:47 and they tell you no, because you're a Christian. 10:50 Think about how that would make somebody feel, well, 10:52 you'd have to start questioning why you are a Christian. 10:56 You know what I mean? Why can't I get along... 10:57 Is it worth it? Exactly, right. 10:59 And especially as a child, we want to be a part of, 11:03 we want to belong, 11:04 we want to be included, and a part of. 11:06 Right. It's like bullying on steroids. 11:08 We deal with kids that are dealing with bullying 11:11 in the schools 11:12 and are having all kinds of ramifications of that. 11:16 But this is a different level... 11:18 You know, larger scale. 11:19 It's more of psychological bullying. 11:21 It's an entire community. Yeah. 11:22 Was their physical bullying? 11:23 Or was it mostly just psychological? 11:25 No, I don't ever remember being physically bullied. 11:29 But remember, Christians were arrested, 11:31 they were tortured, they were jailed, 11:33 and they were killed for their faith. 11:35 Did you have any relatives or know anybody 11:36 on a close basis that went through that or? 11:39 Well, my dad, who was a pastor visited a number of members 11:43 who had been called to do 11:46 the compulsory army service. 11:49 And some of those never made it out of the army. 11:54 'Cause they'd be persecuted by the other soldiers. 11:55 They were persecuted. They refused to bear arms. 11:57 They refuse to do certain things, 11:59 and they would be thrown in jail, 12:01 they would be put in solitary confinement. 12:04 Solitary confinement is a way to make you break down. 12:08 Talk about the ultimate loneliness. 12:11 Calculated to do that. 12:12 And so we did, I didn't know, I was too young. 12:15 I didn't know people like that. 12:16 But my father certainly did 12:17 and other pastors went through it. 12:19 In fact, I have noticed something 12:22 that in many of the Christian pastors 12:24 from Cuba that came 12:27 around the time that my family came, 12:29 many of them have been diagnosed with dementia, 12:33 with Alzheimer's, with PTSD because of the stress 12:39 and the strain that they went through 12:42 in standing up for their congregations, 12:46 in standing up for their families. 12:48 One year the government decided to fine all of the churches, 12:53 it didn't matter the denomination, 12:55 every church in Cuba depending on the size of the church 12:58 was fined a certain amount of money. 13:00 And if you didn't come up with that money 13:02 they would close down that church. 13:04 And so everybody would sell their toys, they would, 13:09 you know, sell their old toys, 13:11 the parents would sell furniture this 13:13 and that to come up with the money to pay the fine. 13:15 Did your parents find ways of compensating 13:19 for this sort of institutionalized loneliness 13:21 that was going on and all of the ostracization 13:24 that you're going through as a kid in school, 13:25 did they step in and like create fellowship 13:28 in some other form for you, 13:30 warmth in the family circle, church... 13:32 You know, what did you do to kind of compensate? 13:34 Well, I remember us having things 13:36 like family worship every day. 13:40 Our family worships were hours long in the morning, 13:44 you know, my mom, my sister, and I would have worship, 13:46 and we would sing, 13:48 and we would play our instruments, 13:49 and we would preach, 13:51 we would do things as a church family. 13:54 Not a lot, but enough that you felt a sense of belonging. 13:58 Was it not a lot because too much surveillance 14:01 or was it not a lot because the church was just Laodicean? 14:04 No, because transportation is an issue in Cuba. 14:09 And so you usually only went to church when you had to 14:12 and people had to walk miles or, you know, get a ride, 14:16 catch a ride, or get on the bus, or whatever. 14:18 So it wasn't like you could go to church, you know, 14:21 three or four times a week like some churches have programs, 14:25 and activities, and things like that. 14:27 So those were highlights 14:28 to be able to congregate in church 14:30 because you felt a sense of belonging, 14:33 a sense of community which you didn't feel. 14:35 One of the things that I remember as a 10 year old, 14:38 I thought in my little mind when I got here was 14:41 people in this country are so nice. 14:44 Everybody smiled and everybody... 14:45 In the US? Yeah. 14:47 In Cuba it was just almost like 14:49 everybody's out to just survive. 14:51 So if you ask for directions or if you ask for help, 14:54 people weren't really very helpful. 14:56 A lot of suspicion. That's correct. 14:58 I read this book Escape from Camp 14. 15:00 It was a guy that grew up in the camps in North Korea. 15:04 And so a little different situation but similar, 15:06 you know, dynamics between the government and the people. 15:10 And he escaped. It's an amazing story. 15:12 But to this day, he says, he has difficulty with bonding. 15:16 He sees people as, you know, 15:19 competition for food kind of thing, 15:20 because that's how it was in the camps. 15:22 Did you experience any of that? 15:24 Or was your family able to insulate you enough 15:27 to where you actually kept your humanity? 15:30 I would say, I was too young. 15:32 But to that point, every community, 15:37 every neighborhood in Cuba was organized 15:39 into something called CDR, 15:41 a Committee of Revolutionary Defense, 15:45 every block, every community 15:47 had a director and assistant director. 15:51 And they had weekly, or bi weekly, 15:53 or bi monthly meetings where everybody got together 15:58 and discussed defending the revolution. 16:02 And what that meant was 16:03 that everybody was watching everybody else. 16:06 So if you showed up at 3 o'clock in the morning, 16:09 one night, the next morning police would be knocking 16:12 at your door saying, 16:13 "Where were you last night? You came home." 16:16 So there is a... 16:17 They knew what you were doing. That's right. 16:19 And it's created to foster distrust 16:23 so that if I go to you or to you, 16:25 and I say let's overthrow the government, 16:28 you're automatically going to turn me in 16:30 because you don't know if I am a spy testing you, 16:36 and if I'm not, 16:38 you can't afford to take that risk. 16:40 So you're going to turn me in 16:43 because then you're off the hook. 16:45 Right. So you got to protect yourself. 16:46 Yes. 16:48 It's opposite of what we call Christian fellowship, 16:51 because everyone was policing everybody else. 16:53 Correct. 16:55 So there's no sense of safety anywhere. 16:57 No. 16:58 And if that is the objective so that you feel lonely, 17:01 so that you can't trust anybody. 17:03 Yeah. 17:04 So what would you say have been the ramifications for you? 17:06 You were a young boy at that time, 17:10 at a pretty sensitive and tender age. 17:12 You're a grown man now. 17:14 You've had a full and rich life. 17:16 Looking back in hindsight, 17:18 what would you say had been the ramifications 17:19 of that life experience? 17:21 Well, for certain, it's taught me 17:23 to appreciate the blessings that we have in this country. 17:27 It's also made me realize more the challenges 17:30 that we go through because, you know, 17:32 for us to say this is a wonderful that we go 17:34 and it's perfect, you know, 17:36 we would be putting our heads in the sand. 17:39 At the same time, when I look back at where I came from. 17:43 Of course, this is a place 17:46 that has thousands more blessings 17:48 and freedoms than where I came from. 17:50 So it's made me very cognizant of our challenges here 17:55 so that I want to work towards help, you know, 17:58 making that situation better. 17:59 But as well as being thankful for what I have, 18:03 because I would have never had it there. 18:05 One of the things that I talked about 18:08 with people that sometimes come to share 18:10 how frustrated they are with some of the things 18:12 that are going on here, I say, 18:13 "Look how many Cubans are daily getting on a raft, 18:17 a man made piece of wood to try to come to this country, 18:21 risking their lives across a shark 18:23 infested Gulf of Mexico." 18:25 And how many people from this country do you see 18:27 so desperately get out that they're willing to do 18:30 the same thing to go to Cuba? 18:32 So, Jaime, do you ever feel like rolling your eyes 18:35 when you see Western self pity, 18:38 when people feel like it's just so bad here, 18:41 that kind of attitude? 18:42 Did you ever just like... 18:44 Yes and no, because that is their reality. 18:46 That's all they've ever know. 18:48 And one of the reasons I challenge young people 18:50 to go on mission trips is because 18:52 when they go to another country like Haiti, 18:55 like Central America, like wherever, 18:58 you're going to be awakened to how good you have it here. 19:01 And then you're bound to say, you know what? 19:03 Okay, we have challenge. 19:04 Let's try to work to fix them instead of, 19:07 "Oh, I don't have enough money to buy the brand new iPhone x 19:10 that is $1,100. 19:11 Or, you know, those are our problems. 19:13 You know, they're not real problems. 19:14 Third world, first world problems. 19:16 Exactly, right. 19:17 My nail just broke, and I have a performance 19:18 that I need to go have a mani-pedi before. 19:21 So I want to get into during the second half 19:24 of this program. 19:25 I want to get into how your experience 19:28 has affected your philosophy? 19:30 And maybe even touch a little on your kind of 19:32 your inclinations politically and where they come from. 19:35 But since we're counselors, 19:36 I would like to open this up to you guys 19:38 and ask you if you were working 19:41 with a client that had been 19:42 through a political dictatorship, and regimented, 19:45 and repressed the way he's describing 19:47 but without the insulation of a good family. 19:50 What would you do with that person to help them 19:52 or the guy that I described from "Escaped from Camp 14," 19:55 who's having difficulty bonding 19:57 because he grew up in a doggy dog world, 20:00 and his limbic system is hyper aroused, 20:03 and he's always in survival mode because of it. 20:05 What do you do with those people 20:07 to help them recover? 20:10 For me, I would immediately go to my specialty 20:15 with equine assisted therapy, 20:16 because we're taking the focus off 20:20 of I can't trust human beings, 20:21 because they've done terrible things. 20:24 But I can go into God's nature 20:26 and I can be with this beautiful, amazing, 20:28 majestic animal that's not going to harm me 20:31 because it's also a prey animal that's been preyed upon, 20:35 and build from there, and just go for that. 20:38 And feel free, Jaime, just to comment 20:40 if you think these things would be effective. 20:42 You know, because you've been there we haven't... 20:44 You know, for me, 20:45 one thing that I will attempt to do is to end it 20:48 with a question I want to have for you is 20:51 to try to get to where their source of pain is 20:53 because there must have been a lot of pain, 20:56 you go through that experience. 20:58 And then trying to help with the heal from that pain. 21:01 You know that pain that we experience... 21:03 Still we want like the government 21:04 to care about us sort of, you know, 21:05 at least be out for the common good, 21:07 you know, and then when you sense that they're really not. 21:11 I mean even though they say they are, 21:12 but you got it at some point realize, "no," 21:15 it would be painful, I would think. 21:16 Yeah, yeah. 21:17 And then you know, like a question 21:19 I wanted to ask you was 21:21 did you ever questioned your faith as a Christian? 21:24 I only questioned if here in this country. 21:26 Oh, okay. 21:27 So when I had luxury, and comfort, and opportunity, 21:32 and freedom, and all of that. 21:34 I didn't question it over there. 21:36 And so what did you do? 21:38 Or what was your experience 21:40 that kept you from questioning your faith? 21:42 Because most people, 21:44 when they go to something as traumatic, 21:45 they begin to question God... 21:47 Or they go to the other place which it sounds like 21:50 where you went where you clung to God 21:52 because God was your saving grace. 21:54 That's right. Yeah. 21:55 And what happened to your life that brought you to the place 21:59 that, you know, that helped you to just cling to God 22:02 because I think that's something 22:04 is very important for us. 22:05 Well, in Cuba, I clung to Jesus. 22:07 Okay. Here I started studying. 22:10 Well, how old? 22:12 When I started college because I went to a college 22:17 or university unlike anything I've ever been to. 22:19 I went to Loyola University of Chicago. 22:22 And so it's a totally different experience. 22:24 I had gone to small Christian schools 22:26 with 100 kids, this and that. 22:28 I go to Loyola with thousands of kids. 22:30 And a faith that's different. 22:32 It's Catholic, right? Yep. 22:33 But there was everything there, you know, and nothing. 22:38 And then I went to the parties and I saw people I was 17. 22:43 So you came to the United States when? 22:45 How old? At 10. 22:46 At 10. 22:47 And then by the time you went through Adventist schools 22:49 until 17, small private schools? 22:52 Until 16 and then I went to a Christian school, 22:55 and I graduated there high school. 22:57 And then finally you're in Loyola University 23:01 and it's wild. 23:03 And it's just different than anything I'd ever seen. 23:06 So I said, "Let me check this out," 23:08 because these people seem to be having a lot of fun. 23:10 So there was no partying and that kind of thing in Cuba? 23:14 Not at my age. Yeah. 23:16 In Cuba, what has happened, 23:18 and that paper describes it perfectly, 23:20 is the breakdown of everything. 23:24 Social fiber, moral fiber, forget about economic fiber, 23:29 then people resort to what? 23:31 Drinking, and sleeping around, and doing whatever, 23:35 because you want to have 23:37 a little bit of fun to offset that pain 23:40 because you're not going to find gratitude, 23:44 you're not going to find joy, 23:45 you're not going to find anything. 23:48 Does the government attempt to regulate people morally, 23:51 like does it try to keep adultery from happening 23:53 or anything or it doesn't care about that? 23:54 Not at all. I think they encourage it. 23:57 Really? 23:59 Anything goes Okay. Okay. 24:01 So you saw kind of people quietly behind the scenes 24:04 just engaging in these demoralizing behaviors 24:06 to try to cope with the pain and stress that they're under. 24:09 Yeah. Okay. 24:10 And I'm seeing that obviously as I get older now, 24:12 and as I go back to Cuba couple of times a year, 24:15 and I see a different perspective than a 10 year old. 24:18 Obviously, I wasn't seeing that as a 10 year old, 24:20 I see it now as I'm walking the streets, 24:23 and I'm talking with people, 24:24 and I'm seeing what they're doing. 24:26 What got you pass the party, you know, the enchantment? 24:30 Yep, it was actually very simple... 24:31 What broke the spell? 24:32 That I realized that at the end of the night 24:34 when you went home at two, three, four, 24:36 five o'clock in the morning, 24:37 you were exhausted, you were hung over. 24:40 Well, I bet it affected your violin playing. 24:43 I couldn't play. 24:45 Alcohol doesn't really help anybody with their stuff. 24:46 No, exactly. 24:47 But I just thought, I just wasted all this time, 24:50 energy, and money, and what have I got for it. 24:52 Nothing. 24:53 So I realized very quickly that it's a mechanism 24:56 to drown out pain, or to kill time, or whatever. 24:58 And I said, "You know what, I don't have time for this." 25:00 Because one thing I noticed about you 25:02 is you're a little bit of a hard worker. 25:04 A little bit. 25:05 I don't think you ever homed 25:06 for any weekend ever in your whole life. 25:08 No. You play constantly. 25:10 I don't know anybody that does more concerts than you. 25:12 No musician that I know concertisizes more than you do. 25:15 I know one. 25:16 You do who? His name is Herman Harp. 25:18 Okay. And he's not doing it anymore. 25:21 But he used to do about 250 concerts. 25:23 He was my mentor. Was he? 25:24 I guess, well, he rubbed on you... 25:26 He just showed me the way. He showed you the way. 25:28 Is that the fruit of this world 25:31 that you grew up in with no options? 25:34 And was it just like an explosion 25:36 of look at all the options 25:37 and you just threw yourself into it. 25:39 Do you think that there's a connection there 25:40 between... 25:41 Most certainly. Yeah. 25:43 But I also love what I do. 25:44 And I have a sense the calling, 25:46 I left medical school to do this. 25:49 So Loyola was medical school? 25:51 College and then University of Illinois was medical school. 25:53 Okay. 25:54 But we only have a certain amount of time on this earth. 25:57 And so yeah, we might as well make it count. 26:00 Amen. 26:01 And so I have a passion for what I do, 26:02 which is using music to preach the gospel. 26:05 Yeah. 26:06 And I need to balance that with my personal life, 26:10 my time with my wife 26:11 was a very good friend of yours, 26:14 who I love, 26:15 and I love to spend time with her, 26:17 and I want to be with her. 26:18 Do you spend time? 26:19 I mean, can you come home and you do have time? 26:21 Yes, we have parameters. We get date nights. 26:22 You know, I'm a counselor and I'm always thinking, 26:24 how is that marriage doing? 26:25 Date nights, praise the Lord. Yes. 26:27 So you use music as an instrument of healing. 26:32 That's right. 26:33 And I have a question, 26:34 music as he was engaging in music, 26:37 how did it heal you because that... 26:39 Oh, it was my escape. 26:41 Man, it is a great question. There you go. 26:42 It became my own world 26:45 because in it I could play Beethoven, 26:47 and Bach, and Tchaikovsky, 26:48 or other pieces that were not allowed. 26:53 I mean it's, you know... In bring healing to you. 26:55 And that became an outlet for me. 26:58 Beautiful. Wow. 26:59 Have you guys all been to one of his concerts? 27:01 Absolutely. 27:02 I always say, 27:04 "Jaime, that you make love to your fans. 27:05 It's awesome. 27:07 You know, I'm just always amazed that the violin 27:09 is still in one piece at the end of the concert. 27:12 Well, we're going to talk more in the second half 27:16 about how growing up under a dictatorship, 27:20 a communist dictatorship 27:21 has affected you philosophically, 27:24 how you approach life 27:26 a little bit on your views on politics. 27:27 And we don't want to get too political 27:29 because it's a religious station. 27:30 But I want to touch on that 27:32 because I follow you on Twitter. 27:33 And I kind of have a feel for where you're at 27:36 and I want to discuss that. 27:37 I also want to find out a little more about 27:39 how you came around out of that party mentality. 27:42 So be with us in the second half 27:45 of our what is the name of this dictatorship 27:48 and mental health. 27:49 We'll find out. 27:50 Just how crazy Jaime Jorge really is. 27:52 But we love him and he's blessed us already. 27:54 Please come with us in the second half. |
Revised 2018-12-17