Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170027A
00:26 Welcome to Multitude of Counselors.
00:28 We're so thankful
00:29 that you've come to our program today.
00:30 We're going to be talking about tyranny,
00:33 dictatorship, and mental health.
00:35 And our guest today is Jaime Jorge.
00:38 Jaime experienced what very few of us experience
00:41 and that is living under a political dictatorship.
00:44 At the tender age of nine years old,
00:47 he was offered by the government,
00:48 by the communist government a scholarship to go to Moscow
00:52 to study music.
00:54 And he was told he would be given that scholarship
00:56 on one condition
00:57 that he would renounce his faith in God.
01:00 And at nine years old, Jaime said, "No."
01:04 I was thinking about the subject matter of today.
01:06 And I found a wonderful paper online
01:10 called Tyranny and Mental Health
01:12 by Riadh Abed.
01:14 And I want to quote him, because he says this so well,
01:17 I'm going to read for a little bit here.
01:19 He says, so we can get kind of an idea of what it's like,
01:22 psychologically to be under a dictatorship.
01:26 Quote, "It is under totalitarian regimes,
01:29 that the removal of the last vestiges of protection
01:33 for the individual
01:34 against the might of the state takes place.
01:38 Society is re-engineered
01:40 under the guiding principles of the state ideology
01:42 which can be communism, nationalism,
01:44 fundamentalism, etc."
01:45 It's not about the philosophy,
01:46 the ideology, it's about the control.
01:49 In a process that frequently leads to intense suffering,
01:53 mass murder,
01:54 and a variety of mass human rights violations.
01:59 The totalitarian regime relies
02:01 on the loneliness of the individual.
02:03 And I just, I found that so fascinating that it relies
02:06 on the loneliness of the individual
02:08 and then he unpacks, he says,
02:10 "A reality that it actively promotes
02:12 through its policy of atomization of society
02:15 into isolated ineffectual individuals,
02:19 its imposition of a state ideology
02:21 and its systematic use of terror.
02:24 Citizens are systematically deprived
02:27 of autonomous decision-making
02:29 and action in whole areas of life.
02:32 This can result
02:33 in an impaired sense of personal responsibility
02:36 and a tendency to blame outside agencies
02:39 for all negative events."
02:40 In other words, it affects people's consciences,
02:43 their ability to take
02:44 moral responsibility for themselves.
02:47 "Terror is used as a routine instrument of governance
02:51 and not simply as a deterrent or punishment
02:53 to the opponents of the regime.
02:56 The strategies implemented
02:58 are those familiar to all tyrannies
02:59 and include abduction, disappearance,
03:02 confiscation of property, deportation, torture,
03:06 extra-judicial killings
03:08 and a variety of collective punishments.
03:11 However, the totalitarian state demonstrates a unique ability
03:15 to carry out such violations on a scale
03:18 previously unimaginable.
03:21 Thus the victims of Nazi Holocaust,
03:23 Stalin purges, the Cambodian killing fields
03:26 involved millions of victims
03:28 who were not guilty of any conventional crime."
03:31 And the author goes on to state
03:33 that these regimes caused the destruction of trust.
03:37 Society is built on trust.
03:39 The infrastructure society is all about
03:40 people trusting one another.
03:42 They destroy that trust.
03:44 There's control of the media
03:45 and the institutionalization of torture,
03:47 well, not surprisingly,
03:49 there are serious psychiatric ramifications
03:52 of this repression.
03:54 Posttraumatic stress, major depressive disorder,
03:56 anxiety, schizophrenia like states,
03:59 sleep disturbance, sexual dysfunction,
04:01 chronic hyperventilation, I thought that was weird.
04:05 You know, I don't know what it is.
04:07 Cognitive impairment, akin to pseudo dementia.
04:11 And in addition, there are personality changes
04:14 that have been noticed and are actually talked about
04:18 in the ICD 10,
04:19 which is the international diagnostic manual
04:22 for all diseases.
04:23 And the prominent features of these include
04:25 symptoms of apathy,
04:28 you'd see why people wouldn't care anymore.
04:30 They can't affect anything.
04:31 They can't make any difference.
04:32 They can't even control their own lives
04:34 so they become apathetic, chronic tiredness,
04:36 lack of initiative,
04:37 poor concentration and paranoid thoughts.
04:40 We're gonna have an awesome discussion today.
04:42 We have this illustrious panel here.
04:44 Shelly Wiggins, licensed professional counselor
04:46 for Michigan.
04:47 David Guerrero,
04:48 biblical counselor from Wisconsin,
04:51 Dr. Nivischi Edwards from Tennessee.
04:56 I know you're about to move for certain wonderful reasons.
05:00 And our wonderful guest, Jaime Jorge
05:03 or if you say it with the Cuban inflection,
05:07 it would be Jaime Jorge.
05:09 Did I say it right? Yes.
05:11 Okay, good.
05:12 Well, I'll call you Jaime Jorge,
05:13 when I can remember too because I've been calling you
05:15 Jaime Jorge for years.
05:16 Did you know that, behind your back?
05:19 We're so glad you're here.
05:20 And I'm really excited about this discussion.
05:23 And I just want to start by asking you
05:26 when were you first aware?
05:28 I know that this was going on when you were a child?
05:31 When were you first aware
05:32 that you were living under a repressive government?
05:35 Or did you never know anything else?
05:37 And you thought it was just your normal?
05:39 Well, I probably first knew
05:41 when I started attending school.
05:44 And one of the very first things
05:47 that singled you out as a Christian
05:49 was your Young Communist Party scarf.
05:53 Everybody that attend school in Cuba has to wear a uniform.
05:58 And along with that uniform
06:00 which was navy blue shirts or pants,
06:05 white shirt, or burgundy pants or shorts.
06:09 I think now they use a mustard color as well
06:12 for your pants, or shorts, or skirts.
06:15 Now you wear that scarf.
06:17 And that is the scarf that lets everybody know
06:20 that you're a young communist.
06:22 So if you didn't wear a scarf,
06:24 you didn't wear it for two reasons.
06:26 One, because you forgot it at home,
06:28 which was frowned upon or you were a Christian,
06:32 and you purposely did not wear that scarf.
06:35 So the minute you didn't wear your scarf,
06:37 and you would line up with hundreds of other kids
06:39 to pledge allegiance
06:41 and to sing the national anthem.
06:42 You are easy target. Exactly right.
06:43 You can easily be identified from the crowd.
06:46 So then that's when it would all begin.
06:48 So how many in the school
06:49 and how many didn't wear the scarf?
06:52 Hundreds and a handful.
06:55 Maybe under 10 kind of thing?
06:57 Yeah, quite easily.
06:59 And so you are identified, and your teacher,
07:03 or your principal, or other teachers,
07:05 before you even dismiss to go to class,
07:08 they'll start coming over.
07:10 So why aren't you wearing your scarf today?
07:11 And this was a daily thing.
07:13 Well, because I'm a Christian, why are you a Christian?
07:15 They interrogated you every day about it.
07:17 I wouldn't say every day but very frequently.
07:20 I mean, I remember it happening many, many times.
07:22 So you stood out like a sore thumb.
07:24 Exactly, and any Christian,
07:26 young lady or young man would stick out
07:30 and would immediately go through this.
07:33 Then you go into class and you come late,
07:38 and then the students are just wondering
07:42 and asking and mocking you.
07:43 And so it becomes
07:46 and everybody against you feeling
07:49 and you start feeling that early on.
07:51 And this was set up intentionally.
07:53 I think, absolutely, because it's all about
07:56 trying to make sure
07:58 people conform to what they want.
08:01 Okay. I remember one time.
08:04 And this is something that
08:06 that made my parents very upset.
08:08 I felt so accosted
08:13 that I peed in my pants.
08:16 So now I can laugh at it now.
08:18 But, you know, from a counselor,
08:21 psychological point of view, that's not good apparently,
08:24 and so when I said that to my mother.
08:25 In fact they all just diagnosed you with enuresis.
08:28 That's it. That's right. It's what I imagine.
08:30 One of the many diagnosis I'm sure you're going to have
08:32 before the program is over.
08:34 We're having so much fun already.
08:35 Like the pressure so the intensity of being
08:37 under that scrutiny...
08:38 And so I didn't even realize what was going on
08:41 in other realms, physiologically speaking.
08:45 And so you go through this every day until,
08:48 as that paper was saying, you have no individual thought,
08:52 you have no independence
08:57 because everything is now
08:59 starting to be planned out for you on many, many levels.
09:03 Basically to create you to be a robot under their...
09:07 Regime. That's correct.
09:08 To be what they want you to be. Right.
09:11 So I was very fascinated by how he said it depends on...
09:14 They really inculcate
09:15 the loneliness of the individual,
09:17 or they make that happened.
09:18 They make people lonely.
09:20 Did you have any friends?
09:21 I have friends.
09:23 I had church friends. Okay.
09:24 I had wonderful church friends, but for instance,
09:28 my neighborhood kids or my neighborhood friends
09:34 were not really my friends.
09:36 I would, we had a ball field, we lived outside the city.
09:40 And so there was a ball field
09:41 where people played soccer and baseball,
09:43 two of the main sports that are played in Cuba.
09:46 And almost every time that I would go
09:48 and there was some other Christian friends
09:51 that lived in that neighborhood.
09:53 Almost every time we would go there and we would say,
09:56 "Hey, guys, you're about to play soccer or baseball.
09:58 Can we play?"
09:59 Almost always the answer was the same,
10:01 "We don't play with Christians."
10:03 So even in the neighborhood kids your age
10:06 are already sort of singling you out,
10:08 they're mocking you, they would come and ask us.
10:12 So, you know, where is God?
10:13 Tell us where's God?
10:15 There was a famous cosmonaut,
10:18 Russian cosmonaut by the name Yuri...
10:19 You just have no concept of what it's like
10:22 to live in a world where religion is literally,
10:25 you know, snuffed out, or attempt to be snuffed out
10:27 by the state, like, can you imagine like...
10:29 And that's the aim of communism
10:31 is to replace God with that ideology,
10:34 which is one of the reasons why it is so dangerous.
10:37 Yeah, so I interrupted you, you want to finish?
10:39 Oh, that's okay.
10:40 Getting back to the whole loneliness thing, you'll go,
10:44 you want to play with your "friends,"
10:47 and they tell you no, because you're a Christian.
10:50 Think about how that would make somebody feel, well,
10:52 you'd have to start questioning why you are a Christian.
10:56 You know what I mean? Why can't I get along...
10:57 Is it worth it? Exactly, right.
10:59 And especially as a child, we want to be a part of,
11:03 we want to belong,
11:04 we want to be included, and a part of.
11:06 Right. It's like bullying on steroids.
11:08 We deal with kids that are dealing with bullying
11:11 in the schools
11:12 and are having all kinds of ramifications of that.
11:16 But this is a different level...
11:18 You know, larger scale.
11:19 It's more of psychological bullying.
11:21 It's an entire community. Yeah.
11:22 Was their physical bullying?
11:23 Or was it mostly just psychological?
11:25 No, I don't ever remember being physically bullied.
11:29 But remember, Christians were arrested,
11:31 they were tortured, they were jailed,
11:33 and they were killed for their faith.
11:35 Did you have any relatives or know anybody
11:36 on a close basis that went through that or?
11:39 Well, my dad, who was a pastor visited a number of members
11:43 who had been called to do
11:46 the compulsory army service.
11:49 And some of those never made it out of the army.
11:54 'Cause they'd be persecuted by the other soldiers.
11:55 They were persecuted. They refused to bear arms.
11:57 They refuse to do certain things,
11:59 and they would be thrown in jail,
12:01 they would be put in solitary confinement.
12:04 Solitary confinement is a way to make you break down.
12:08 Talk about the ultimate loneliness.
12:11 Calculated to do that.
12:12 And so we did, I didn't know, I was too young.
12:15 I didn't know people like that.
12:16 But my father certainly did
12:17 and other pastors went through it.
12:19 In fact, I have noticed something
12:22 that in many of the Christian pastors
12:24 from Cuba that came
12:27 around the time that my family came,
12:29 many of them have been diagnosed with dementia,
12:33 with Alzheimer's, with PTSD because of the stress
12:39 and the strain that they went through
12:42 in standing up for their congregations,
12:46 in standing up for their families.
12:48 One year the government decided to fine all of the churches,
12:53 it didn't matter the denomination,
12:55 every church in Cuba depending on the size of the church
12:58 was fined a certain amount of money.
13:00 And if you didn't come up with that money
13:02 they would close down that church.
13:04 And so everybody would sell their toys, they would,
13:09 you know, sell their old toys,
13:11 the parents would sell furniture this
13:13 and that to come up with the money to pay the fine.
13:15 Did your parents find ways of compensating
13:19 for this sort of institutionalized loneliness
13:21 that was going on and all of the ostracization
13:24 that you're going through as a kid in school,
13:25 did they step in and like create fellowship
13:28 in some other form for you,
13:30 warmth in the family circle, church...
13:32 You know, what did you do to kind of compensate?
13:34 Well, I remember us having things
13:36 like family worship every day.
13:40 Our family worships were hours long in the morning,
13:44 you know, my mom, my sister, and I would have worship,
13:46 and we would sing,
13:48 and we would play our instruments,
13:49 and we would preach,
13:51 we would do things as a church family.
13:54 Not a lot, but enough that you felt a sense of belonging.
13:58 Was it not a lot because too much surveillance
14:01 or was it not a lot because the church was just Laodicean?
14:04 No, because transportation is an issue in Cuba.
14:09 And so you usually only went to church when you had to
14:12 and people had to walk miles or, you know, get a ride,
14:16 catch a ride, or get on the bus, or whatever.
14:18 So it wasn't like you could go to church, you know,
14:21 three or four times a week like some churches have programs,
14:25 and activities, and things like that.
14:27 So those were highlights
14:28 to be able to congregate in church
14:30 because you felt a sense of belonging,
14:33 a sense of community which you didn't feel.
14:35 One of the things that I remember as a 10 year old,
14:38 I thought in my little mind when I got here was
14:41 people in this country are so nice.
14:44 Everybody smiled and everybody...
14:45 In the US? Yeah.
14:47 In Cuba it was just almost like
14:49 everybody's out to just survive.
14:51 So if you ask for directions or if you ask for help,
14:54 people weren't really very helpful.
14:56 A lot of suspicion. That's correct.
14:58 I read this book Escape from Camp 14.
15:00 It was a guy that grew up in the camps in North Korea.
15:04 And so a little different situation but similar,
15:06 you know, dynamics between the government and the people.
15:10 And he escaped. It's an amazing story.
15:12 But to this day, he says, he has difficulty with bonding.
15:16 He sees people as, you know,
15:19 competition for food kind of thing,
15:20 because that's how it was in the camps.
15:22 Did you experience any of that?
15:24 Or was your family able to insulate you enough
15:27 to where you actually kept your humanity?
15:30 I would say, I was too young.
15:32 But to that point, every community,
15:37 every neighborhood in Cuba was organized
15:39 into something called CDR,
15:41 a Committee of Revolutionary Defense,
15:45 every block, every community
15:47 had a director and assistant director.
15:51 And they had weekly, or bi weekly,
15:53 or bi monthly meetings where everybody got together
15:58 and discussed defending the revolution.
16:02 And what that meant was
16:03 that everybody was watching everybody else.
16:06 So if you showed up at 3 o'clock in the morning,
16:09 one night, the next morning police would be knocking
16:12 at your door saying,
16:13 "Where were you last night? You came home."
16:16 So there is a...
16:17 They knew what you were doing. That's right.
16:19 And it's created to foster distrust
16:23 so that if I go to you or to you,
16:25 and I say let's overthrow the government,
16:28 you're automatically going to turn me in
16:30 because you don't know if I am a spy testing you,
16:36 and if I'm not,
16:38 you can't afford to take that risk.
16:40 So you're going to turn me in
16:43 because then you're off the hook.
16:45 Right. So you got to protect yourself.
16:48 It's opposite of what we call Christian fellowship,
16:51 because everyone was policing everybody else.
16:55 So there's no sense of safety anywhere.
16:58 And if that is the objective so that you feel lonely,
17:01 so that you can't trust anybody.
17:04 So what would you say have been the ramifications for you?
17:06 You were a young boy at that time,
17:10 at a pretty sensitive and tender age.
17:12 You're a grown man now.
17:14 You've had a full and rich life.
17:16 Looking back in hindsight,
17:18 what would you say had been the ramifications
17:19 of that life experience?
17:21 Well, for certain, it's taught me
17:23 to appreciate the blessings that we have in this country.
17:27 It's also made me realize more the challenges
17:30 that we go through because, you know,
17:32 for us to say this is a wonderful that we go
17:34 and it's perfect, you know,
17:36 we would be putting our heads in the sand.
17:39 At the same time, when I look back at where I came from.
17:43 Of course, this is a place
17:46 that has thousands more blessings
17:48 and freedoms than where I came from.
17:50 So it's made me very cognizant of our challenges here
17:55 so that I want to work towards help, you know,
17:58 making that situation better.
17:59 But as well as being thankful for what I have,
18:03 because I would have never had it there.
18:05 One of the things that I talked about
18:08 with people that sometimes come to share
18:10 how frustrated they are with some of the things
18:12 that are going on here, I say,
18:13 "Look how many Cubans are daily getting on a raft,
18:17 a man made piece of wood to try to come to this country,
18:21 risking their lives across a shark
18:23 infested Gulf of Mexico."
18:25 And how many people from this country do you see
18:27 so desperately get out that they're willing to do
18:30 the same thing to go to Cuba?
18:32 So, Jaime, do you ever feel like rolling your eyes
18:35 when you see Western self pity,
18:38 when people feel like it's just so bad here,
18:41 that kind of attitude?
18:42 Did you ever just like...
18:44 Yes and no, because that is their reality.
18:46 That's all they've ever know.
18:48 And one of the reasons I challenge young people
18:50 to go on mission trips is because
18:52 when they go to another country like Haiti,
18:55 like Central America, like wherever,
18:58 you're going to be awakened to how good you have it here.
19:01 And then you're bound to say, you know what?
19:03 Okay, we have challenge.
19:04 Let's try to work to fix them instead of,
19:07 "Oh, I don't have enough money to buy the brand new iPhone x
19:10 that is $1,100.
19:11 Or, you know, those are our problems.
19:13 You know, they're not real problems.
19:14 Third world, first world problems.
19:16 Exactly, right.
19:17 My nail just broke, and I have a performance
19:18 that I need to go have a mani-pedi before.
19:21 So I want to get into during the second half
19:24 of this program.
19:25 I want to get into how your experience
19:28 has affected your philosophy?
19:30 And maybe even touch a little on your kind of
19:32 your inclinations politically and where they come from.
19:35 But since we're counselors,
19:36 I would like to open this up to you guys
19:38 and ask you if you were working
19:41 with a client that had been
19:42 through a political dictatorship, and regimented,
19:45 and repressed the way he's describing
19:47 but without the insulation of a good family.
19:50 What would you do with that person to help them
19:52 or the guy that I described from "Escaped from Camp 14,"
19:55 who's having difficulty bonding
19:57 because he grew up in a doggy dog world,
20:00 and his limbic system is hyper aroused,
20:03 and he's always in survival mode because of it.
20:05 What do you do with those people
20:07 to help them recover?
20:10 For me, I would immediately go to my specialty
20:15 with equine assisted therapy,
20:16 because we're taking the focus off
20:20 of I can't trust human beings,
20:21 because they've done terrible things.
20:24 But I can go into God's nature
20:26 and I can be with this beautiful, amazing,
20:28 majestic animal that's not going to harm me
20:31 because it's also a prey animal that's been preyed upon,
20:35 and build from there, and just go for that.
20:38 And feel free, Jaime, just to comment
20:40 if you think these things would be effective.
20:42 You know, because you've been there we haven't...
20:44 You know, for me,
20:45 one thing that I will attempt to do is to end it
20:48 with a question I want to have for you is
20:51 to try to get to where their source of pain is
20:53 because there must have been a lot of pain,
20:56 you go through that experience.
20:58 And then trying to help with the heal from that pain.
21:01 You know that pain that we experience...
21:03 Still we want like the government
21:04 to care about us sort of, you know,
21:05 at least be out for the common good,
21:07 you know, and then when you sense that they're really not.
21:11 I mean even though they say they are,
21:12 but you got it at some point realize, "no,"
21:15 it would be painful, I would think.
21:16 Yeah, yeah.
21:17 And then you know, like a question
21:19 I wanted to ask you was
21:21 did you ever questioned your faith as a Christian?
21:24 I only questioned if here in this country.
21:26 Oh, okay.
21:27 So when I had luxury, and comfort, and opportunity,
21:32 and freedom, and all of that.
21:34 I didn't question it over there.
21:36 And so what did you do?
21:38 Or what was your experience
21:40 that kept you from questioning your faith?
21:42 Because most people,
21:44 when they go to something as traumatic,
21:45 they begin to question God...
21:47 Or they go to the other place which it sounds like
21:50 where you went where you clung to God
21:52 because God was your saving grace.
21:54 That's right. Yeah.
21:55 And what happened to your life that brought you to the place
21:59 that, you know, that helped you to just cling to God
22:02 because I think that's something
22:04 is very important for us.
22:05 Well, in Cuba, I clung to Jesus.
22:07 Okay. Here I started studying.
22:10 Well, how old?
22:12 When I started college because I went to a college
22:17 or university unlike anything I've ever been to.
22:19 I went to Loyola University of Chicago.
22:22 And so it's a totally different experience.
22:24 I had gone to small Christian schools
22:26 with 100 kids, this and that.
22:28 I go to Loyola with thousands of kids.
22:30 And a faith that's different.
22:32 It's Catholic, right? Yep.
22:33 But there was everything there, you know, and nothing.
22:38 And then I went to the parties and I saw people I was 17.
22:43 So you came to the United States when?
22:45 How old? At 10.
22:46 At 10.
22:47 And then by the time you went through Adventist schools
22:49 until 17, small private schools?
22:52 Until 16 and then I went to a Christian school,
22:55 and I graduated there high school.
22:57 And then finally you're in Loyola University
23:01 and it's wild.
23:03 And it's just different than anything I'd ever seen.
23:06 So I said, "Let me check this out,"
23:08 because these people seem to be having a lot of fun.
23:10 So there was no partying and that kind of thing in Cuba?
23:14 Not at my age. Yeah.
23:16 In Cuba, what has happened,
23:18 and that paper describes it perfectly,
23:20 is the breakdown of everything.
23:24 Social fiber, moral fiber, forget about economic fiber,
23:29 then people resort to what?
23:31 Drinking, and sleeping around, and doing whatever,
23:35 because you want to have
23:37 a little bit of fun to offset that pain
23:40 because you're not going to find gratitude,
23:44 you're not going to find joy,
23:45 you're not going to find anything.
23:48 Does the government attempt to regulate people morally,
23:51 like does it try to keep adultery from happening
23:53 or anything or it doesn't care about that?
23:54 Not at all. I think they encourage it.
23:59 Anything goes Okay. Okay.
24:01 So you saw kind of people quietly behind the scenes
24:04 just engaging in these demoralizing behaviors
24:06 to try to cope with the pain and stress that they're under.
24:09 Yeah. Okay.
24:10 And I'm seeing that obviously as I get older now,
24:12 and as I go back to Cuba couple of times a year,
24:15 and I see a different perspective than a 10 year old.
24:18 Obviously, I wasn't seeing that as a 10 year old,
24:20 I see it now as I'm walking the streets,
24:23 and I'm talking with people,
24:24 and I'm seeing what they're doing.
24:26 What got you pass the party, you know, the enchantment?
24:30 Yep, it was actually very simple...
24:31 What broke the spell?
24:32 That I realized that at the end of the night
24:34 when you went home at two, three, four,
24:36 five o'clock in the morning,
24:37 you were exhausted, you were hung over.
24:40 Well, I bet it affected your violin playing.
24:43 I couldn't play.
24:45 Alcohol doesn't really help anybody with their stuff.
24:46 No, exactly.
24:47 But I just thought, I just wasted all this time,
24:50 energy, and money, and what have I got for it.
24:53 So I realized very quickly that it's a mechanism
24:56 to drown out pain, or to kill time, or whatever.
24:58 And I said, "You know what, I don't have time for this."
25:00 Because one thing I noticed about you
25:02 is you're a little bit of a hard worker.
25:04 A little bit.
25:05 I don't think you ever homed
25:06 for any weekend ever in your whole life.
25:08 No. You play constantly.
25:10 I don't know anybody that does more concerts than you.
25:12 No musician that I know concertisizes more than you do.
25:15 I know one.
25:16 You do who? His name is Herman Harp.
25:18 Okay. And he's not doing it anymore.
25:21 But he used to do about 250 concerts.
25:23 He was my mentor. Was he?
25:24 I guess, well, he rubbed on you...
25:26 He just showed me the way. He showed you the way.
25:28 Is that the fruit of this world
25:31 that you grew up in with no options?
25:34 And was it just like an explosion
25:36 of look at all the options
25:37 and you just threw yourself into it.
25:39 Do you think that there's a connection there
25:41 Most certainly. Yeah.
25:43 But I also love what I do.
25:44 And I have a sense the calling,
25:46 I left medical school to do this.
25:49 So Loyola was medical school?
25:51 College and then University of Illinois was medical school.
25:54 But we only have a certain amount of time on this earth.
25:57 And so yeah, we might as well make it count.
26:01 And so I have a passion for what I do,
26:02 which is using music to preach the gospel.
26:06 And I need to balance that with my personal life,
26:10 my time with my wife
26:11 was a very good friend of yours,
26:14 who I love,
26:15 and I love to spend time with her,
26:17 and I want to be with her.
26:18 Do you spend time?
26:19 I mean, can you come home and you do have time?
26:21 Yes, we have parameters. We get date nights.
26:22 You know, I'm a counselor and I'm always thinking,
26:24 how is that marriage doing?
26:25 Date nights, praise the Lord. Yes.
26:27 So you use music as an instrument of healing.
26:32 That's right.
26:33 And I have a question,
26:34 music as he was engaging in music,
26:37 how did it heal you because that...
26:39 Oh, it was my escape.
26:41 Man, it is a great question. There you go.
26:42 It became my own world
26:45 because in it I could play Beethoven,
26:47 and Bach, and Tchaikovsky,
26:48 or other pieces that were not allowed.
26:53 I mean it's, you know... In bring healing to you.
26:55 And that became an outlet for me.
26:58 Beautiful. Wow.
26:59 Have you guys all been to one of his concerts?
27:02 I always say,
27:04 "Jaime, that you make love to your fans.
27:05 It's awesome.
27:07 You know, I'm just always amazed that the violin
27:09 is still in one piece at the end of the concert.
27:12 Well, we're going to talk more in the second half
27:16 about how growing up under a dictatorship,
27:20 a communist dictatorship
27:21 has affected you philosophically,
27:24 how you approach life
27:26 a little bit on your views on politics.
27:27 And we don't want to get too political
27:29 because it's a religious station.
27:30 But I want to touch on that
27:32 because I follow you on Twitter.
27:33 And I kind of have a feel for where you're at
27:36 and I want to discuss that.
27:37 I also want to find out a little more about
27:39 how you came around out of that party mentality.
27:42 So be with us in the second half
27:45 of our what is the name of this dictatorship
27:48 and mental health.
27:49 We'll find out.
27:50 Just how crazy Jaime Jorge really is.
27:52 But we love him and he's blessed us already.
27:54 Please come with us in the second half.