Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170029A
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00:26 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:28 We're so thankful that you've joined us today 00:30 for our program. 00:31 It's going to be an awesome program 00:33 because we're going to talk about a relevant topic, 00:35 and that is Christian dating, courtship, 00:39 finding a life partner, and all those kind of things. 00:43 So I want to start with a little bit of the history 00:45 of Christian dating. 00:47 Historically, dating really didn't exist. 00:50 Marriage was a very functional thing. 00:52 And you know that historically 00:54 many marriages were determined by the parents, 00:57 the parents matched the married couple. 01:00 But there are still some cultures 01:03 in which that is active today. 01:06 But marriage was always 01:07 historically a very functional thing, 01:10 even in early Western culture, very functional, 01:13 particularly before the Industrial Revolution. 01:16 So let me give you an example. 01:17 There was a man 01:19 who put an ad in a paper to try to find a wife, 01:22 and this is what he said. 01:23 This is in 1800s, 01:25 and this is what he said, he said... 01:26 This man was from Arkansas, 01:28 so let me try to sound like him. 01:29 He said, " Any gal what got a bed, 01:31 calico dress, coffee-pot and skillet, 01:34 knows how to cut our britches, 01:35 can make a hunting shift, 01:37 and knows how to take care of children 01:39 can have my services till death parts both of us." 01:42 So that man really didn't care about the relationship so much 01:45 as he cared about how that woman functioned 01:48 because it was all about survival. 01:50 Well, the Industrial Revolution came along, 01:53 and it wasn't just about survival anymore, 01:55 there was more leisure time, there was more money, 01:57 more prosperity, 01:58 people could actually think about relationships. 02:01 So it was in that window of time 02:02 that courtship really started to develop. 02:04 And the way it looked initially was this that 02:06 the girl would sit in her parlor, 02:08 in her home with her family, 02:10 in other parts of the home, 02:11 and the boy would come and visit with the girl 02:13 in the parlor. 02:15 This way, the girl was protected by her family, 02:17 they were within earshot, 02:18 and the power balance was with the girl. 02:21 But eventually, the poor girls thought, 02:23 "Well, I want to date or court too," 02:25 and so they started to meet in public places. 02:29 And often, it was a restaurant or somewhere 02:31 where there was something that needed to be purchased. 02:33 And typically, the male was purchasing. 02:35 So the power balance shifted to the male, 02:37 and in addition, 02:39 the parents really didn't have 02:40 as much to do with that relationship. 02:43 Then beyond that, 02:46 dating, as it came to be called, 02:47 started to be about the thrill of the relationship, 02:52 very focused in 02:53 on the romantic thrill of dating 02:55 and less functional, and less serious, 02:57 less intentional. 02:59 Christian dating pretty much followed that pattern 03:03 until the purity movement 03:06 and until a certain book came along. 03:08 In about 1997, young man named Joshua Harris, 03:12 21 years old, wrote the book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. 03:17 And in that book, 03:18 he recommended returning to the courtship model 03:21 where the parents would have 03:22 much authority over the relationship, 03:25 the couple would restrain themselves 03:27 from any kind of physical or emotional enmeshment 03:30 during that courtship process, 03:32 and they were very much focused on ascertaining 03:36 whether that person was a suitable marriage partner, 03:40 so it was very serious. 03:42 Well, that went on for about 20 years. 03:46 And then 20 years after the courtship revolution, 03:50 you might call it, 03:51 the author of 03:52 I Kissed Dating Goodbye kissed the book, 03:55 I Kissed Dating Goodbye, goodbye. 03:58 And I want us to hear from him 03:59 because he really had a process of thinking about 04:03 what he put across in that book 04:04 and what might have been some things 04:05 that needed to be corrected. 04:07 He said, in an article, 04:09 "I'm just beginning the process 04:10 of revisiting the message and impact of my book. 04:15 Over the years, I've heard from people 04:16 who have been helped by the book, 04:18 but I've also heard a growing number of voices 04:19 of people who have been hurt by it. 04:22 I want to understand this better. 04:24 I'm starting by listening." 04:26 Then in a TED Talks, he said, 04:28 "I gave the impression that there was really one formula 04:31 you could follow, 04:33 and that if you follow that, you would be happily married, 04:34 God will bless you, 04:36 and you have a great sex life and marriage. 04:37 Probably, one of the things that I regret the most 04:39 was that there was a lot of fear inside me 04:42 and that fear transferred into my writing. 04:44 Fear of messing up, fear of getting heartbroken, 04:46 fear of hurting someone else, fear of sex." 04:50 When I read that, I realized that 04:52 he was identifying some of the things 04:53 that I had experienced as flaws in the courtship model 04:57 or maybe limitations in the courtship model. 04:59 But I want to say this 05:01 that I think the courtship model 05:02 was an improvement on the dating model. 05:04 And I, myself, went through dating 05:07 according to the world's formula, 05:09 and then went through courtship according to this formula, 05:13 and I married my husband after that kind of courtship, 05:16 and we're still married about a million years later. 05:18 So something was working that I would say 05:21 it's more what we did after the marriage, 05:23 which is, I think, true for everyone. 05:25 But on the other hand, there are, perhaps, limitations 05:29 or things that needed to be corrected, 05:31 but let's not start from scratch here. 05:33 There are some really good things 05:34 about the courtship model. 05:36 I think the one thing for me that was missing was 05:38 there was no opportunity to get to know the opposite sex 05:41 before a very serious relationship such as courtship. 05:45 And so when I counsel young people, I say, 05:47 "Start out with friendship dating 05:49 where you're just kind of enjoying, 05:51 getting to know different people, 05:52 in public places, 05:54 not in these very private situations 05:56 where you might be tempted, 05:57 but do get to know a variety of people." 06:01 I was stumbled on an article 06:02 that said basically the same thing 06:04 by a man named Thomas Umstattd. 06:05 And he said that he was originally 06:07 a courtship enthusiast, 06:09 but his grandmother told him, "It's silly, " 06:11 and he sat down with her to find out why and she said, 06:13 "In my generation, there was one rule, 06:15 you couldn't go out with the same person 06:16 twice in a row 06:18 unless you were ready for a serious relationship 06:20 because going more than once with the same person 06:22 was going steady." 06:24 And I thought that was why is that it's good to go out, 06:26 get to know people, and get out there, 06:28 and yet we have to have some restraints. 06:32 So our guests today are Jason and Natanya Vanderlaan. 06:36 They're very special to me. 06:38 They've been very recently, 06:40 you know, discovered each other, 06:42 met each other. 06:44 I don't know if you call it courting or dating, 06:46 whatever you did, but then they ended up married. 06:48 Yes. So something worked out. 06:49 And they're going to tell us that story. 06:51 And it's so exciting 06:53 because they met at one of my seminars, 06:55 so I get to take some credit. 06:56 Good. 06:58 But I want to introduce my panel today. 06:59 I've got David Guerrero, biblical counselor, 07:01 and Dr. Nivischi Edwards, professional counselor 07:05 and university professor. 07:09 And again, David... 07:11 I'm sorry, David. 07:12 Jason and Natanya Vanderlaan... 07:14 Did I say it right? Yeah. 07:15 Vanderlaan. 07:16 And you're from where? 07:18 We live in Burlington, Vermont now. 07:19 Burlington, Vermont. 07:21 So let's start with your story. 07:22 Where did you guys meet? 07:24 Well, I just told them where you met but, you know? 07:26 Take us from the beginning 07:27 and let's weave some of these ideas in. 07:29 Totally. 07:30 And I wanted to start with this one thought. 07:32 There is not any one particular formula 07:34 that works perfectly for each and every person. 07:37 I think that's what I've come to. 07:39 I think biblical principles are always appropriate, 07:41 they're always in place, 07:42 restraints on human passion are always necessary. 07:46 But being filled with the Holy Spirit, 07:48 He may lead one person in one direction 07:49 and one in a little bit different one. 07:51 Let's not be formulaic about something as really... 07:55 Dynamic. As relationships. 07:57 Good word. Amen. 07:58 Yes. Yeah. 08:00 It's just so beautiful 08:01 that we didn't plan this this way. 08:04 But your history mirrors so very much. 08:08 Our experience, 08:11 you know, Jason and I 08:12 were coming from two very, very different spaces. 08:16 So tell us about it. 08:17 What was your space like, Jason? 08:19 So I definitely came from more of the purity movement mindset, 08:23 and I related to a lot of that, 08:26 and took, not exactly the courtship approach, 08:28 but a lot of the principles from it. 08:30 What about it appealed to you? 08:32 I really appreciated that 08:34 it caused me to look at my actions 08:37 in the individual counters that I had, 08:40 and I realized that they had longer impacts 08:43 than just in that very moment. 08:44 And where did you get that model from? 08:47 I read some books. 08:49 I think I probably read I Kissed Dating Goodbye. 08:50 There was so many of them at that time. 08:52 Right. 08:53 And they also had some people come to our school 08:56 and do purity conferences and stuff like that. 08:58 And I just... 08:59 I did a lot of reading early on and discovered that. 09:01 So you did research on your own, you were reading, 09:04 and then you were putting together some, 09:06 you know, like your own paradigm, right, 09:08 and model and you said, 09:10 "This is what I'm going to follow 09:12 and everything's going to just be just fine." 09:13 Yeah. Yeah. 09:15 Where there are any... 09:16 You went through some personal experiences 09:18 and then had some background 09:20 that made you really cautious about relationships? 09:23 Yeah. 09:24 Not that I want to blow you right up... 09:25 No. 09:27 I mean this is great, 09:28 you know, Joshua Harris 09:30 talks about the fear of being a part of it 09:31 and trying to, like, protect himself. 09:33 And so I think part of what drew me 09:36 to the purity model was... 09:37 It was like, 09:38 "This is a foolproof formula to not get hurt." 09:41 And that seemed good at first. 09:42 And then after the first, 09:44 like disastrously failed relationship, 09:46 and I was like, "I really need this." 09:47 Oh, you did that with the courtship model, 09:50 the first disastrously failed relationship? 09:51 Yeah. You still failed? 09:53 Yeah, I did. 09:54 Still what? Failed. 09:56 And still got hurt 09:58 and then it was like even more so like, 10:00 "Definitely, don't experience this again." 10:02 So you kind of like double down on a lot of... 10:05 And you put on the full armor? 10:06 Yeah. Right. 10:08 So, you know, it sounds like it was more of your response 10:10 to what didn't happen for you 10:13 and then it caused you to then put together... 10:16 Well, what you shared was it caused you 10:19 to even tighten the ship. 10:22 Yeah. Yeah. 10:23 And it's an interesting dynamic, as you said, 10:26 because there are so certain parts of the model 10:29 that I took value in and I felt to be inspiring 10:32 and then other parts that, 10:33 you know, I began to realize, were inhibiting me 10:36 from actually being able 10:38 to experience intimacy in any form. 10:40 Okay. 10:42 It's a weird thing for a vegetarian to say, 10:43 but eat the meat and leave the bones. 10:44 Right. 10:46 You know? Yeah. 10:47 Really there is some value there. 10:48 So you were saying that 10:50 you came from a totally different headspace, 10:51 can you expand on that a little bit? 10:53 Yeah. 10:54 So we both loved to read coming up. 10:56 I was very much inspired 11:00 by the women's liberation movement. 11:03 And it wasn't even about dating at all, right? 11:07 I wanted to express myself, 11:09 and I was reading all these incredible authors, 11:12 and I wanted to understand the why oftentimes. 11:16 And so I was introduced 11:17 to I Kissed Dating Goodbye in school, 11:21 I went to like a traditional Bible school, 11:23 and the girls and the boys 11:24 were separated from Bible class. 11:26 And I felt like there was a lot of shame involved 11:28 in this teaching where... 11:31 Often, it didn't even have a lot to do with the book 11:34 but the way how do you dress, how do you behave, 11:37 and so much of the weight was placed on... 11:40 On your behavior. Exactly. 11:42 And I didn't feel that it was very meaty. 11:45 And so it's funny 11:46 because we were talking about dating 11:49 and different dating philosophies 11:51 and the book title came up. 11:53 And I wasn't sure how to tell Jason 11:57 what my interactions with the book were, you know? 11:59 What were your interactions with the book? 12:01 I burnt it in the school parking lot. 12:04 It was an act of... 12:06 Early act of... 12:08 You know, actually, to be totally honest, 12:11 I wasn't very successful. 12:12 It's hard to burn a book. 12:13 It wasn't entirely burnt. 12:15 It might not even have been that the book 12:16 was so bad or some of the things... 12:18 It was the way that it was put across. 12:19 No. Exactly. 12:20 It was the way it was projected. 12:22 To be totally fair, I think that there's a lot of value. 12:24 So did you think when you told him 12:26 you burnt that book that he'd be like, 12:27 "Oh, I don't want to be with you," 12:28 you know, kind of thing? 12:30 Maybe. 12:31 I was a little apprehensive 12:32 because I didn't want to offend him. 12:34 You know, we were just getting to know each other, 12:35 and I never even read the book. 12:37 It was more a symbolic gesture if that makes sense. 12:40 So, Jason, what did you feel when she told you that? 12:45 I thought, "Okay, this might be interesting," 12:48 but I had also, 12:50 you know, come a long way from there 12:51 where I could see 12:53 why people didn't like the book, 12:54 and I had experienced my own 12:56 like reservations with certain aspects of it. 12:58 You guys were at polar ends, it sounds like, 13:00 in your philosophies. 13:02 Yeah. 13:03 How do you reconcile being together today 13:06 coming from those two worlds? 13:07 If it had not been for the Lord on our side. 13:10 Amen. Really. 13:11 It was God and God alone that totally 13:14 through the power of the Holy Spirit 13:15 and prayer... 13:17 So get into the story. 13:18 Fused our perception. Yeah. 13:20 So do you want to start or do you want me to... 13:21 I can start. 13:23 So it would be easy, you know, to say that we got together 13:25 and we worked out like a middle ground 13:27 where our two views came together, 13:29 but we didn't do that at all. 13:30 You know, it was just like 13:32 the spirit was forging new ground 13:33 and we were trying to keep up with Him. 13:34 It's really how we felt in our relationship. 13:36 Well, can I start just a little part here? 13:37 Yeah. Yeah. 13:39 Okay. 13:40 So Jason and Natanya were at a seminar that I did. 13:42 Now here's the background. 13:44 I did the same seminar about 10 minutes 13:45 from where Jason lived in Philadelphia. 13:47 He didn't make it to that one. Yeah. 13:48 So he was determined to come to this one I did happen. 13:51 New Hampshire was like six hours away. 13:53 And the guy powered through, his battery failed, 13:56 he made it up there, he gets there. 13:58 And then we're all at this seminar and we're at... 14:00 Natanya's parents that night 14:03 sitting in the living room with Jason and everyone. 14:05 And you Couchsurfed, I think, 14:06 just to find someone to stay with. 14:07 Yeah. 14:09 You went through a lot of hardship to get there. 14:10 And then... 14:11 And I think, "Why is this guy so motivated 14:13 to come to my measly little seminar?" 14:14 We're sitting in the living room 14:15 and all of a sudden, I'm looking back and forth 14:17 between the two of them going, "That's why." 14:20 And I didn't know he didn't even know her. 14:24 He didn't even know she was up there. 14:25 So you saw the spark even before they did. 14:27 I saw that. 14:29 And then within like a few weeks, 14:30 I see the stuff on Facebook, and I'm like, "Wow! 14:33 God did something here." 14:34 So anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to filibuster your story, 14:36 but go for it. 14:37 Yeah, that was definitely it. 14:39 You saw something and we believe, 14:40 you know, God, when He saw us, 14:41 He saw me smiling because He knew what was up. 14:44 Yeah. We had no idea. 14:45 And we had no idea. 14:46 I thought... 14:48 I looked at the two of you and I know both of you, 14:49 and I'm like, "They'd be perfect for each other. 14:50 They're perfect." 14:52 Wow. Well. 14:53 So when did you become aware that there was something? 14:54 What happened? 14:56 It wasn't until about two months later. 14:58 Yeah. 15:00 I had been given a book that I wanted to... 15:04 It was a prayer challenge, 40 days. 15:06 I wanted to do it with someone 15:07 and I couldn't find anyone in the world to do with. 15:09 And then finally, in frustration, I said, 15:11 "God, who do you want me to do this book with?" 15:13 And very quickly, it was Jason. 15:15 You know, we lectured God, I said, "Oh, but, Lord, 15:17 that would be very irresponsible, 15:19 I've already friend-zoned him." 15:20 And you know, it's funny, in retrospect, 15:23 we both thought that 15:25 the other was like not our type, 15:28 like, "Oh, she's nice, but..." 15:31 We saw a lot of obstacles. 15:33 Exactly. 15:34 In paper, we looked at our lists individually 15:36 and we were like, "This is not going to work." 15:38 Yeah, but God knew better. 15:40 So we got started and, you know, 15:42 it was short little prayer exercises every day. 15:45 So you were going through a prayer book? 15:46 Like a prayer challenge book, I mean, together? 15:49 Yes. On the phone. 15:50 Okay. On the phone. 15:52 Did you ask him if he would go through the book with you? 15:54 Yeah, I asked him if he would do it with me. 15:56 And it's actually kind of funny the way it worked out 15:58 because I was still, like, very reluctant. 16:00 God told me like, 16:01 "Maybe this would be a good idea," I said, 16:03 "No, God, I don't think so." 16:04 And then that night, 16:05 that was maybe the third time 16:07 we'd ever spoken on the phone, 16:08 Jason starts asking me questions about prayer 16:09 'cause he knows I'd done prayer seminars 16:11 and workshops and it was like my thing. 16:14 And I was like, "Oh, man, this is a sign from the Lord." 16:16 So I suggested that he'd do it by himself. 16:21 But two days later, we spoke again. 16:24 I said, "Actually, I have the book," so... 16:27 And I got on Amazon Prime in two day shipping, 16:28 I had the book. 16:30 Yeah. And we were ready to go. 16:32 And what was supposed to be 10-15 minutes a day 16:34 turned into well over an hour. 16:36 We were having to change our schedule. 16:38 And talking about, like, prayer and meeting in the middle, 16:42 I didn't come from a space 16:44 where I was creating healthy boundaries 16:45 in my relationships. 16:47 And I was praying about it. 16:49 I said, "Lord, this is new. 16:52 What boundaries would You have for me?" 16:54 And, you know, God is funny, He says, 16:56 "Well, you can talk to Jason 16:57 only half as much as you talk to Me." 16:59 So I was changing my schedule 17:02 entirely where there were days 17:04 where I would wake up early and I'd be praying 17:06 for like three hours 17:07 so that I could have an hour and a half 17:09 nearly to talk to him. 17:10 And it was really amazing how everything unfolded. 17:14 It was only five days before we knew that, 17:18 you know, this was something of God. 17:19 Yeah. 17:21 And it ended on his birthday, 40 days in. 17:24 And just 4 days after it... 17:25 What do you mean ended on his birthday? 17:26 The 40 days of prayer. Oh, the 40 days. 17:28 Okay. Ended on his birthday. 17:29 Not the relationship. No, no, no. 17:33 Yeah, it's important clear up. 17:35 And he proposed to me... 17:36 On his birthday? 17:38 No, four days after. Four days after. 17:39 Four days after. Yeah. 17:40 Remind you we were living over six hours apart. 17:42 Forty days of prayer, his birthday... 17:43 Forty days of prayer, his birthday, 17:45 and then the proposal. 17:46 Yeah. 17:48 All in all, we dated just short of a month. 17:49 Was there a point 17:50 where you decided you were dating 17:52 and told the world that you were a couple or no, 17:55 it just sort of happened? 17:57 Yeah. 17:58 It was maybe a couple of weeks into the book, 18:00 I went up and visited her. 18:02 I drove up from Philly to Vermont, 18:03 and we had... 18:05 We were pretty sure by that point 18:07 but, you know, 18:08 it was actually like meet together in person again, 18:10 and then like... 18:11 What was that drive like from Philly to Vermont? 18:15 I'm just curious. 18:16 So as we can kind of see in a lot of things, 18:19 I'm a very cautious and a methodical person, 18:22 and I was very eager to get there. 18:24 I got my first speeding ticket ever on that trip. 18:28 You never speed normally? 18:29 Yeah. Never. 18:33 So the woman who's driving across the country with Jason. 18:36 Yeah. Right. 18:38 So your story is amazing, 18:41 And there may be people in the audience wondering, 18:43 "Well, how do you know?" 18:45 Like you talk about hearing God and having assurance 18:48 and having the affirmations 18:50 based on your different experiences, 18:52 but how do you say to somebody, "I knew because?" 18:56 Yeah, good question. 18:57 That is a good question. 18:59 You know, I had a plan for how I would know, 19:01 and my plan was like a five-year plan. 19:03 Of course, because you're methodical. 19:05 Yes, very much. 19:07 Meet the girl, get to know her for a year. 19:08 You were going to date for five years. 19:10 Oh, I see. 19:11 Date for two years, engage for two years, 19:12 they you get married, it's great, it's perfect. 19:14 And somewhere along that line, you feel... 19:16 It turned to 40 days. Yeah. 19:19 I would imagine that I would feel 19:21 very strongly about my decision 19:22 and then I would ask God for some confirming sign, 19:25 and He would help me out somehow, 19:27 and I would do it. 19:28 But obviously, that's not how it worked out at all. 19:30 Not this time. 19:31 And so... 19:33 I don't know. 19:34 We found ourselves praying together and... 19:36 That's the key. 19:37 It was, like, every day, like she was saying, 19:39 we were praying before we met together for, 19:42 you know, maybe an hour or two each, 19:44 and the things that God was revealing to me, 19:46 He was revealing to her. 19:48 And so when we would share together, 19:49 everything was just aligning together. 19:52 And it felt like every day was a revelation 19:55 that we were supposed to be together. 19:58 And I don't know if this really answers your question 20:00 'cause it's really hard to give a formula. 20:02 A concrete answer. 20:03 Did you counsel with your parents 20:05 with their some involvement? 20:06 Yeah. 20:07 What was the nature of it too, like was it like veto power 20:10 or advice and busing or what was it like? 20:13 So that was another affirmation for me personally. 20:15 I'm very close to my parents. 20:17 And my poor father, 20:19 we'd had a conversation shortly before all this 20:22 where I told him that marriage was a case of pick your poison. 20:26 You know, I was very cut and dry. 20:28 And really talk to me about... 20:29 The case of picking your poison. 20:30 Picking your poison. Picking your poison. 20:32 So it works better for some than others. 20:34 And you know, hopefully, you get better odds 20:36 but really nobody's perfect, we're all human, 20:39 we're all going to fail and disappoint each other. 20:41 So hopefully you get something that's a little less painful, 20:43 and that was it. 20:45 And so he was using that as an illustration in sermons, 20:48 my father is a minister. 20:50 It was difficult. 20:51 And then fast forward, I call him on the phone, 20:55 I said, "Daddy, I'm in love with Jason, 20:58 I think I'm going to marry him." 21:01 And what did he say? That's poison? 21:02 No. No. 21:04 Actually, he was putting his suit jacket on 21:07 to go on the platform to preach, he says, 21:09 "Can we talk about this another time?" 21:12 But he gave his blessing. 21:15 He gave his blessing. My mom gave her blessing. 21:18 And it was so assertive from their point. 21:23 Then I was like, "This is God," 21:25 'cause I knew how much they love me. 21:26 What do you mean by assertive? 21:27 They were very affirmative. 21:29 It was very strong short answer. 21:31 Like yes. 21:33 "Yes, definitely. 21:34 This is great even though it was quick." 21:36 And he wouldn't expect that normally from you. 21:37 Exactly. 21:39 My mother... 21:40 Had they met Jason? 21:41 Yes, they had met Jason 21:43 actually at Jennifer Jill's seminar. 21:45 So it was a brief meeting. 21:46 And so they saw something in him too? 21:48 No. 21:50 My mother was trying to hook Jason up 21:53 with one of my friends. 21:54 Okay. 21:56 It was very, very honest, like it was out of the blue. 21:58 She was thinking this would never work. 21:59 Yeah. 22:01 But they saw in him a nice young man. 22:02 She would eat him alive. Her words. 22:06 But they saw in him a nice young man. 22:08 They saw Jesus in him, you know? 22:09 There you go. 22:11 And I see Jesus in him every day. 22:12 And if I could give advice to our young people, 22:15 like we were both looking for Jesus 22:18 and we didn't stop until we found Him. 22:21 And that's where the rubber meets the road. 22:24 So when you say you both were looking for Jesus, 22:26 can you expound on that? 22:28 Were you looking for Jesus in each other 22:30 or looking for Jesus asking Him 22:33 for His divine guidance or both? 22:35 I think both. 22:36 Yeah, I think I was looking 22:37 for always a fuller and fuller experience of Jesus. 22:41 For yourself? Yeah. 22:43 And wanting to partner with Him 22:45 in every aspect of life, 22:47 and that included marriage and the relationship. 22:50 And so one of the key moments for me was, 22:52 after we had began praying together, 22:55 we started praying at every conversation 22:58 I mean, not just our "prayer time." 23:01 And if we were trying to make a decision together, 23:03 we'd pray about it. 23:05 And like just this part of inviting Jesus into, 23:08 like 24/7 part of the relationship, 23:10 I was like, 23:11 "This is what I've always wanted." 23:12 You know, it's... 23:14 I had other relationships that... 23:17 You know, it was good cultural Adventist experience, 23:20 but it wasn't like a holistic, dedicated experience. 23:25 I found that in her. Amen. 23:27 What would you say to young people 23:29 that feel the urge to find a life partner? 23:33 And what would you say to them? 23:36 Would you say... 23:37 Find Jesus, right? Yeah. 23:39 He is first and foremost 23:41 because not everybody's going to find a life partner, 23:44 that's the reality of the situation 23:46 or an appropriate life partner. 23:49 So what would you say to them? 23:50 Like if someone's like, "I really want to be married, " 23:52 what's your response? 23:54 And I'm sure you address this because aren't you doing... 23:56 and we'll get into this in the second half, 23:58 the ministry that God is bringing 24:00 out of your marriage. 24:01 Yeah. Amen. 24:02 And I'm sure you're getting questions like this. 24:04 So what's the nutshell answer that you give 24:05 in two minutes or less? 24:10 Yeah. 24:12 I mean, it sounds a little cliché(C) 24:13 but like really dedicate 24:15 to getting to know Jesus first. 24:17 And that doesn't mean like you're saying 24:18 you can't have friendship dating, 24:20 you can get to know a variety of people 24:23 and learn your dislikes and likes. 24:25 But really, like as we experienced, 24:28 we had... 24:29 I mean, we were both around 30 years old, 24:32 we knew our dislikes and likes. 24:34 And yeah, when we compared ourselves to each other, 24:36 we thought this is not going to work, 24:38 it's not a good match, 24:39 but it was only through prayer that we could see as God saw. 24:43 Yeah. 24:44 And He was like, 24:45 "You guys are perfect for each other." 24:47 Compatibility is not necessarily seamless, you know? 24:49 Yeah. Yeah. 24:50 And eventually, you know, as we continued 24:52 to get to know each other and pray, 24:53 our eyes were opened to see, 24:55 "Wow, we are perfect for each other. 24:56 This is like really amazing." 24:58 Yeah. 24:59 Do you think that someone's desire 25:01 to find a partner is sufficient reason 25:04 to approach it in an intentional way 25:07 'cause I kind of lean that way, 25:08 like if you feel like 25:10 God is calling you to a partnership, 25:11 be intentional about it 25:12 and put yourself in situations where you may meet someone, 25:15 don't hide in your room 25:17 'cause there are some people do, 25:18 "God is going to bring me someone." 25:20 Yeah. I think that's unrealistic. 25:21 However, with the advances of modern technology today... 25:25 You can meet them in your own room. 25:26 You know... 25:28 With a lot of dating websites. 25:29 But what I'm hearing is also that 25:31 there was some intentionality in what you both did, 25:34 you just did it to prayer and seeking God and His faith 25:37 and inviting Christ to the process. 25:40 And we all have to be intentional 25:43 in doing that in our lives with everything 25:44 and very importantly with dating 25:47 or seeking a life mate. 25:48 And it sounds like you kind of relinquished yourself 25:51 of your predisposition. 25:53 Yeah. Conceived with ideas. 25:55 Yeah, totally. 25:56 There was an incredible amount of trust in this space. 25:59 I don't know if there's time for a quick story. 26:02 Go for it. 26:03 So we're dating, newly, newly dating, 26:07 and we decided, 26:08 "You know, Canada's only an hour and a half away." 26:10 So we go on a wonderful date in Canada 26:14 and we're coming back across the border 26:16 and, you know, you have those quiet moments 26:18 in the evening where you're both tired, 26:20 you had a full day, and out of nowhere, 26:23 Jason looks over at me and he's just like, 26:27 "You know, God has called you to Vermont, I believe it. 26:32 And I'm willing to leave everything right now." 26:36 At that point, 26:38 he was very engaged in ministry, 26:40 working with REACH, 26:41 and he had a lot of things going on. 26:42 In Philadelphia. Yeah. Totally. 26:44 He said, "I'm willing to leave all of that 26:47 to come and be were God has called us to be." 26:51 And were you engaged at that point? 26:53 No. Wow. 26:56 That would have been either like great or, "Uh-oh." 26:58 No. 27:00 But that realization hit him real time. 27:01 Yeah. 27:03 And he's looking at me and it's dark, 27:04 so it's kind of forgiving, 27:05 but the tears just started streaming down his face. 27:07 Someone's willing to sacrifice for you. 27:09 He's leaving his family, he's leaving his friends, 27:12 he's leaving everything for me. 27:13 And I think no greater love than this than a man, 27:17 you know, would lay down his life, 27:19 you know, for his friends, for his love, you know? 27:21 Amen. Oh, I love it. 27:23 And there is second segment of this program, 27:26 Prayer Partners Become Life Partners. 27:28 We're going to go into how that sacrificial love 27:32 really enables the couple 27:34 to get through the difficulties of marriage. 27:35 Everybody has difficulties in marriage. 27:38 And really what makes the marriage 27:40 is what happens after the altar. 27:42 We're so glad that Jason and Natanya 27:44 did some really cool things 27:46 and followed Jesus before the altar, 27:47 but they're going to get into the nuts and bolts 27:49 of what life is like 27:51 with two sinners living under one roof 27:53 and how to resolve that conflict. 27:54 Please join us for that program. 27:56 We look forward to seeing you. 27:58 Amen. |
Revised 2018-11-29