Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170030A
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00:26 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors
00:28 for the second part of our program entitled 00:31 Prayer Partners Become Life Partners. 00:33 We've been hearing from Jason and Natanya Vanderlaan. 00:37 And they told us 00:38 how they forged their relationship 00:40 in the context of prayer how when they first met, 00:42 they were working through a book 00:44 that was kind of a 40 days of prayer kind of a book, 00:47 and they decided to do it together, 00:49 and they ended up falling in love in that context, 00:51 which is just so cool. 00:53 So we want to hear more about the end of your courtship 00:56 and then move into what's working 00:57 in your relationship now that you've been married 00:59 a total of an amazing eight months. 01:02 Yes. 01:03 But I want to introduce my panel here. 01:05 I've got David Guerrero. 01:06 He's a biblical counselor from Wisconsin. 01:08 And Shelly Wiggins 01:10 who is a licensed professional counselor 01:11 from Michigan. 01:12 And Jason and Natanya Vanderlaan, 01:15 and I want to ask you... 01:18 I want to just bring out the fact 01:19 that when you guys met, 01:21 and this is the thing I love about your relationship, 01:23 you were in the line of duty. 01:24 Jason fought his way up 01:26 to New Hampshire for that seminar, 01:28 and it was actually a training 01:29 where I was helping people learn 01:31 how to help people, 01:32 it's called the Abide Helper Training. 01:33 And you came to that training 'cause you wanted to learn. 01:36 You wanted to be equipped to help people more effectively 01:38 and so did Natanya, 01:40 and you were both focused on ministry, 01:43 and in that context, you met each other. 01:44 So we were chatting about how people sit in their bedroom 01:47 and wait for God to bring them someone. 01:49 What they really need to do is get out there, 01:51 focus their life on God, and serving others. 01:53 And in doing that, they will put themselves 01:55 in, you know, social contexts 01:58 where not only will they meet more people period, 02:01 they'll more people that would be 02:03 an appropriate partner. 02:04 And here's the thing, 02:06 it's cool that you forged your relationship 02:07 in the context of service because it's really not healthy 02:10 to be totally self-focused in a twosome, 02:13 and twosomes can become very, very selfish. 02:15 Yeah. 02:16 So the fact that you are outwardly focused 02:17 even in the formation processes of your relationship 02:20 is really quite amazing. 02:22 So let's talk about anything more that we need to cover 02:26 in terms of the courtship phase 02:27 before we move into your marriage. 02:29 Talk to me about... 02:31 Well, the cliffhanger that was left 02:32 on the first part of the program, 02:35 I'd like you to tell the other part of it. 02:37 So you're at the border and you're in tears and... 02:42 I think I was the one in tears. 02:43 Oh, you're the... 02:45 Probably both in tears. She was in tears too. 02:46 Did you think he was going to pop the question right then? 02:48 Oh, no, no. 02:49 I didn't think he was going to pop the question, 02:51 but it was a space and time where I think we both 02:55 really felt the gravity of what we'd been afforded. 02:58 Was God giving you permission to take that step? 03:01 What was going on in both of your minds? 03:05 I think that we were both, like, 03:07 so in love already at that point 03:09 and so excited about each other. 03:11 Yeah. That's so sweet. 03:13 That just really is beautiful. 03:14 And it was at that kind of a moment, 03:17 there was kind of 03:18 some of the reality was setting in 03:20 that being committed to loving each other 03:23 meant a lot of big changes in our lives. 03:26 And so starting to begin to wade through those 03:30 and to face those, and, you know, 03:32 we realized through prayer and talking to each other 03:35 that we were perfectly matched for each other 03:38 that doesn't mean there weren't a lot of differences. 03:40 Yes. 03:42 There are a lot of places where we experienced conflict 03:44 and had to work through that and learn how to grow. 03:45 Exactly. 03:47 And that was of kind of the beginning of facing reality 03:50 in a good way. 03:51 Did you ask first? Did you ask her first? 03:56 Yeah, I was going to say can you... 03:57 Did you ask someone else? I'm just curious. 04:01 Before I proposed? Yeah. 04:04 So I think... 04:05 It was an amazing proposal. Thank you. 04:10 We had talked about getting married 04:12 before I asked her parents. 04:14 And the idea was not so much 04:18 to ask permission as to ask a blessing, 04:21 but she's a human being 04:22 and she has her own free choice. 04:24 Amen. 04:25 But we really value and honor our parents 04:28 and their perspective, 04:30 especially their spiritual directions. 04:31 Yes. 04:33 And so we want them to be fully onboard as well. 04:34 Totally. Amen. 04:36 Love it. Yeah. 04:37 Perfect. 04:38 I called up her parents on the phone. 04:40 And I was holding on my phone on FaceTime, and they asked me, 04:44 "Can you put your phone somewhere more stable," 04:46 'cause I was like. 04:48 That was making them obnoxious. 04:50 A little bit nervous. 04:52 But yeah, it went well and I got their blessing. 04:55 Amen. And then what happened? 04:57 Tell us about the candles, just real brief. 04:59 Okay. 05:00 So I just planned her a really lovely evening, 05:03 a date, and after dinner, 05:05 I had rented out this artist's loft 05:08 and I'd had my brothers, two of my brothers, 05:10 and my sister help me set up 500 candles for this. 05:14 Five hundred candles! 05:15 There was mirrors and stuff so the... 05:17 The walls were covered in mirrors and gold. 05:18 It was more like a thousand candles. 05:20 Yeah. Yeah. 05:21 But I think that all of this is really important to mention 05:25 because there was the space 05:27 even in a very short frame of time 05:29 where he pursued me, you know? 05:31 Amen. 05:32 I told him when he first asked if I was interested in dating 05:36 that I only date local. 05:38 I had made that up, 05:39 but I didn't want to do long distance. 05:42 And so he was driving six plus hours 05:45 every other weekend, you know? 05:48 And that kind of commitment is important. 05:52 I think it spoke deeply to me personally. 05:55 Do you think that the guy does the sacrificing 05:59 and not the woman or is it both equally 06:02 or is it a little more important 06:03 that the man really put himself out there 06:05 'cause that's kind of the school I'm from 06:06 is that the guy takes the bigger risks, 06:09 I wouldn't say that woman takes no risks? 06:11 So I definitely wouldn't say that the woman takes no risk. 06:13 But you're like such a feminist that I wonder about 06:15 how you feel about that. 06:16 I think that we should both be willing to put in work 06:19 and commitment, but at the same time like, 06:23 "You're asking for a huge commitment of me. 06:26 You're asking for my heart and my whole life, 06:28 and I think you should have to work for it a little." 06:32 Yeah. So... 06:33 What I really appreciated about her is like 06:35 I knew she was, you know, 06:37 very self-sufficient and confident. 06:38 And a lot of times, the idea that 06:41 the man takes initiative means that the woman 06:43 is more passive and is incapable. 06:46 Yeah. 06:47 And I think what I really liked and saw here is that 06:49 she was fully capable... 06:50 Fully capable. 06:51 And she voluntarily left space for me to make that first move, 06:55 to make the first step. 06:56 Even in conversations on the phone, like at first, 06:59 she was just like talk, talk, talking, and then she was like, 07:02 "I'm going to, like, stop talking and, like, 07:05 let you lead the conversation." 07:07 And that was an example 07:09 or even like opening the car door, 07:10 she's obviously very capable of opening the car door, 07:14 but she'll pause and let me do it 07:15 because it gives me space to take that lead. 07:17 To me, maybe I'm too old school, 07:20 but it does something for the development of the man 07:22 to have to put himself out there for the woman, 07:25 and there's something really, really symbolic 07:27 about that Christ loving the church 07:29 in that self-sacrificial way. 07:30 For sure. 07:31 So the same self-sacrifice works 07:33 in the context of marriage, and let's talk 07:36 'cause, I think, cumulatively, 07:38 we have quite a few years of marriage represented here. 07:41 You guys have a whopping eight months of marriage, 07:44 but I think you're starting 07:45 from what you've shared with me, 07:47 I think you're starting to discover 07:49 what actually works and that's, 07:51 you're calling it radical transparency 07:54 and work having the hard conversations 07:57 and working through things instead of shelving them 07:59 instead of pretending they're not there. 08:01 You want to talk about that a little bit? 08:02 Yeah, sure. Yeah. 08:04 From the very beginning and I do believe 08:05 it was Holy Spirit inspired, 08:08 I was so committed to being very, almost painfully, 08:13 honest sometimes with Jason. 08:15 And as he's put it several times, 08:18 we'd already played the game, 08:20 and so we weren't looking to do any of that, 08:24 we were just offering ourselves as we were. 08:27 And that's kind of evolved. 08:30 Now that we're married, 08:32 sometimes it means being willing to sit down 08:35 and have those hard conversations 08:37 when I don't agree with him, 08:40 but I know that it's going to mean 08:42 a lot of talking, which is not always my favorite thing, 08:45 like I'm the more extroverted, 08:47 but I like to get things done quickly. 08:50 I just say everything that's on my mind 08:52 and then I'm done. 08:53 Yeah. Jason is more pensive. 08:55 He's a writer and a poet, he reflects. 08:57 And sometimes, he'll come back three days later 08:59 and still want to talk for an hour about something. 09:02 That's difficult for me, but creating that space 09:06 has been really beautiful in our relationship 09:09 because it's a partnership. 09:10 Can you give us one example 09:12 of something you've talked through? 09:13 Yeah. 09:14 I'd like to know a little more of the nuts and bolts here. 09:17 I know you're a little different in your thinking 09:19 and I think it's important that people know 09:21 they don't have to be a match, 09:23 a complete replica of one another. 09:24 Maybe we should give them a random topic off 09:26 the top of our head and just say, Chew on it." 09:28 Feminism. Okay. 09:31 That would make me a little bit far. 09:33 Or could you provide for us what you mean by providing 09:36 that space? 09:37 What does it mean? Yeah. 09:39 I think very similar to what Jason mentioned 09:42 in regards to like being on the phone, 09:44 I will talk a mile a minute. 09:46 And I prayed about this 09:47 because I wanted there to be an exchange. 09:49 And God brought my mind to like phone calls, 09:54 like conference calls, I would have with work. 09:57 And we would have someone 09:58 in charge of facilitating a call, 10:01 that was their job. 10:02 And in doing that, 10:04 they had to create the space for other people to talk. 10:06 Yeah. 10:08 And God's like, "You need to create the space." 10:09 Okay. 10:10 And so I'm waiting for him to respond 10:14 instead of just running my mouth, right? 10:17 I'm asking questions 10:20 or forwarding him the initiative and saying, 10:22 "Hey, you're the one facilitating the call today, 10:26 you take the lead." 10:27 And so we're refocusing how we conversate. 10:33 And you know, we could... 10:34 You're matching each other's space. 10:35 Exactly. Exactly. 10:37 And this is something that Jason brought to my attention. 10:40 But a lot of big topics, we don't agree, 10:45 but we're not too far away from each other. 10:47 And a lot of the success of talking 10:50 through a difficult topic is the way you talk about it. 10:53 It's more about the process, the content. 10:54 Exactly. Exactly. 10:55 You can get through a lot of things 10:57 in which you see things differently. 10:59 If you could respect each other 11:00 and really listen to each other, 11:02 then you could work through it effectively. 11:04 Exactly. Exactly. 11:05 So he has brought me the realization 11:06 that our language is polarizing, 11:08 even in regards to dating, right? 11:10 So sometimes, he'd say something 11:13 and I'd be like, "Ding. Purity movement." 11:16 And my mind shuts down, I'm not listening anymore. 11:19 And sometimes, I would say things 11:20 and he'd be like, "Whoa." 11:22 Now can you clarify that that was sort of the vestiges 11:24 of this experience you had in a Protestant private school? 11:28 Yes. 11:30 When you felt there was a lot of shame and guilt 11:31 put on you over the issue of dating 11:33 and so you'll have a traumatic response 11:35 when he'll talk and sound something like that. 11:37 And all of a sudden, I'm not listening. 11:39 Shutdown. Yeah. Yeah. 11:41 But we ultimately believe similar things. 11:43 But are you able to then say, 11:45 "This is how I feel as a result of you just saying," 11:47 and look at the emotional reaction itself 11:50 rather than personalizing it and turning it into a debate? 11:51 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 11:53 And I think what's been really great about that is, you know, 11:55 on so many different things whether dating 11:58 or from different backgrounds and race or culture 12:01 or politics, any of these things, 12:03 like she was saying 12:04 there's so much polarize in language. 12:06 And so it's very different though 12:08 that if you're online on Facebook 12:10 and you're just kind of like type up something 12:12 and send it off to the person who has the opposing view, 12:15 it's really easy to create that picture of who that is 12:18 and what they hold their values and make them very simple. 12:21 But when you're sitting in the same room 12:23 with someone that you love and respect 12:25 and think is really smart and value who they are, 12:29 and they say something that if you saw on the internet, 12:32 you would like write off immediately, 12:35 I have to be like, "Huh, she might have a point." 12:38 Yeah. 12:39 I value who this person is and even more than that, 12:41 I'm committed to unity with her. 12:43 So you're hearing the same thing from her 12:46 that you would have heard on Facebook or Twitter 12:49 or something and you would have written that person off. 12:51 You hear the same thing from her, someone you love, 12:53 and you start to consider it because you love her. 12:55 Yeah. Yeah. 12:57 And being committed to that has really created space for us 13:00 to work past the polarizing language 13:03 and then realize, 13:04 "Oh, we're actually really close 13:06 to the same idea in the end." 13:09 We just are using such different language 13:11 because of our backgrounds. 13:12 When you're talking about issues like that, 13:14 do you try to figure out what the other person... 13:18 what their core values there 13:21 and then try to discern if maybe 13:23 you have a similar core value, like if she's talking about... 13:26 she has a reaction to it, 13:28 something about the purity movement, 13:30 her core value there is freedom. 13:32 And a lot of times, you who maybe triggered her, 13:35 could say to her, "I can see that 13:36 that's really the hot button for you 13:38 because you value freedom so much," 13:40 will make her feel secure and being understood by you 13:43 in such a way that she's able to look 13:45 more objectively at what you said. 13:47 Have you found that that's true? 13:48 I think so. 13:50 So I just thought of a really great example. 13:52 This was several months ago. 13:53 But Jason posted something on Facebook. 13:57 I don't really use Facebook that much, 13:58 but it was an article that he shared. 14:01 And I don't remember exactly what was it in regards to. 14:05 Maybe gun control, 14:06 I don't remember, something political. 14:07 Something political. 14:09 And all sparks started firing. Off you? 14:12 If I had seen somebody else post that, 14:14 I think I may have unfriended them. 14:16 But my mind was a... Oh, wow. 14:18 "I don't want to unfriend my husband." 14:21 All of a sudden, I started thinking, "Why? 14:24 Why would he share something like that? 14:26 What is he thinking?" 14:29 And so I sent him a text. 14:32 And we have... 14:33 Poor Jason, he's at work, and he sees like this long text 14:37 'cause, you know, this is not a conversation 14:38 to have publicly. 14:40 Yeah. 14:41 And he responded to me very kindly, you know, 14:45 and we talked about it briefly. 14:46 He actually called me. And then I went on doing life. 14:50 Later, a friend calls, one of my best friends. 14:54 She lives in Paris. 14:55 And she says, "You know, I saw this thing Jason just posted. 14:58 And it just... 14:59 I love the way you guys are." 15:02 And it was... He put a little... 15:04 some comment, "You know, I spoke to my wife 15:06 and I actually think that this could be very insensitive 15:10 to certain types of people, 15:12 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 15:13 and I just want to say..." 15:14 And he pretty much 15:16 put a Cliff-Note version of our resolution. 15:19 Wow! I didn't even know about it. 15:21 I didn't ask for it. 15:22 And you know, something Gottman, 15:24 who's the doyen of marriage, says that the problem of women 15:27 that men tend to resist women's influence 15:30 and women tend to, what we call, nag. 15:32 So women will criticize, men will resist influence. 15:35 So the fact that you accepted her influence 15:38 probably spoke volumes 15:40 because it's very difficult sometimes for men 15:42 to accept influence from their wives. 15:43 So the fact that you let her influence you was really cool. 15:45 And it was a testimony. Yeah. Yeah. 15:47 You know? Exactly. 15:49 God has used our relationship and, oftentimes, 15:51 what we would call conflict 15:53 to testify to other people in our resolution. 15:57 And I'm really grateful for that space. 16:00 Wow. 16:01 Speaking of testimony, 16:03 there's going to be people watching, young people, 16:06 and you have message for young people of hope 16:09 and of a lot of things. 16:12 People may have questions for you. 16:15 I understand you have a website ministry. 16:18 Can you tell us a little bit about that? 16:19 So we work with my parents, actually, 16:22 who have a ministry called Upward Movement Ministry. 16:26 We'll be posting our website... 16:28 Okay. 16:29 On their website. Yep. 16:31 We'll be posting... 16:32 well, the actual address at the end of the show. 16:35 And also I know you mentioned 16:37 that you will be receiving questions, so... 16:39 Yeah. 16:40 So A Multitude of Counselors has website, 16:41 people contact us all the time through... 16:43 there's a contact forum and they can reach out to you 16:45 through us too. 16:46 Yeah. Yeah. So that's perfect. 16:47 But tell us about your ministry. 16:49 I want to know more about what you're actually doing 16:50 with the love that God has given the two of you 16:54 and how you're turning it into ministry? 16:55 Yeah. 16:56 So we're actually doing what we call a Love Tour. 16:58 Was that your idea or... 17:00 No, that was her idea. That's so cool. 17:02 So you do a love tour and you just get up 17:04 in front of people and talk about love. 17:05 Yeah. 17:07 The idea was, you know, we had our wedding, 17:10 and our wedding, we wanted it to be ministry. 17:13 We wanted it to be a celebration 17:14 of what God was doing. 17:16 Yeah. And so we... 17:17 Our favors were the prayer book 17:19 that we had fallen in love with, 17:21 we gave those out, and wanted to see other people 17:25 experience transformation too. 17:27 And so we knew though that everyone couldn't come 17:30 to the wedding and so we picked the cities 17:33 that had the biggest populations of people we knew 17:35 and we started going to them 17:37 and sharing our story and sharing testimony 17:40 and bringing people into prayer. 17:42 So you were able to hit your friendship circle 17:44 and your family circle with this appearance. 17:45 Yeah. 17:47 And, you know, we were going out 17:48 to these different churches 17:50 and finding that lots of other people 17:51 were coming to hear our story as well. 17:53 So you were like, "Maybe it's not just about 17:55 family and friends, 17:56 maybe other people want to hear from us." 17:57 Totally. Yeah. Yeah. 17:59 And a ministry was born out of that. 18:00 Exactly. Yeah. 18:01 And so that's what you're doing full time now? 18:03 I mean, what are you? Crazy? 18:06 We probably are crazy, 18:07 but we're not doing it full time, 18:08 not yet, but we're doing it a lot. 18:11 Where would you like to get to? 18:13 And what would you like to say to people? 18:15 What's the core of what you're trying to say? 18:16 Yeah. 18:18 And do you want to get to the place 18:19 where this is all you're doing like, this is your life? 18:21 Well, we definitely love to be ministering together full time, 18:26 but I see the Love Tour expanding. 18:30 We see time and time again in our work 18:32 that we're creating a space 18:35 for people to come together and find reconciliation. 18:39 And we say all the time that it's not really about 18:41 a love story but it's a power of prayer story, 18:45 it's a testament of what God can do in your life 18:48 if you put Him to the test. 18:50 And we want to empower people to move into those phases 18:53 and see God do His best work. 18:56 So you're trying to take 18:57 what's going on in your marriage 18:59 and how you've learned how to listen or learning 19:01 how to listen to each other and have the hard conversation 19:03 and have this radical transparency, 19:06 and you're trying to put that in a form 19:09 that people can apply to other relationships. 19:11 Exactly. Exactly. 19:12 Yeah. All kinds of relationships. 19:14 I can't really think of anything that the world 19:16 and the church needs more than what you're talking about. 19:18 Do you know what I'm saying? Right. 19:20 Like I've never seen our church so embroiled in conflict 19:24 as it is right now. 19:25 I'm not trying to broadcast that, but it's a fact. 19:27 And I've never seen our world so polarized and embroiled 19:31 in conflict in so many families. 19:33 And the fact that you're bringing this message 19:35 of reconciliation is very meaningful. 19:37 Well, if we think about it 19:39 from what we believe in our message, 19:42 there were two things that were pure 19:44 and holy and sanctified 19:45 before sin entered the world, what was it? 19:49 Sabbath and marriage. 19:50 Sabbath and marriage. Yes. 19:52 So what are the two things 19:54 that Satan wants to attack the most? 19:57 The exact same. 19:58 So as a gift to you 20:02 to protect your marriage 20:05 from that onslaught, 20:08 we will always be available to you 20:10 should you get in one of those spots 20:13 because they'll come. 20:14 Yeah. 20:15 You're new, eight months, into this. 20:19 There's a lovely book by Gary Thomas. 20:22 If I had it, I'd give it to you as a gift right now 20:24 for a wedding gift. 20:26 It's called Sacred Marriage, 20:28 but the subtitle is 20:29 What If God Intended Marriage 20:32 to Make Us Holy and Not Just Happy? 20:36 And it's a devotional but it's deeply spiritual, 20:40 and you will be blessed to read that book together. 20:43 Amen. Thank you. 20:45 'Cause we were talking about 20:46 the chemicals of falling in love 20:47 and how they last for roughly a year and a half 20:50 and then they start to taper off 20:52 and then comes the real difficult, 20:54 sometimes, period... 20:55 Yeah, your true characters, 20:57 you're no longer in your best behavior. 20:58 And there's neuroscience going on 21:00 where you don't have the dopamine levels 21:03 and you're dealing with more low mood 21:05 and that type of thing. 21:06 And we're looking at you having been married 21:08 eight months and thinking... 21:09 I'm not thinking though, you know, 21:11 a disaster ahead because I see that 21:13 you're employing principles that are going to get you 21:15 past that threshold where the relationship 21:17 isn't so naturally gratifying anymore. 21:20 And don't you think that that's the foundation 21:22 of what helps people stay married and stay intimate? 21:26 You're not in the lovey-dovey fog, 21:27 you're in reality, 21:29 you know that some of these things will occur 21:31 'cause we've already told you. 21:32 Yeah. 21:34 And I'm sure other people have told you too. 21:35 Yeah, 'cause they are wise people 21:37 and they've observed others. 21:38 Oh, you've studied the Word of God. 21:39 Amen. Amen. 21:41 You know, I think that was stand out for me 21:42 is how you have built a relationship. 21:44 And you have built your relationship on prayer 21:47 and on the Word of God and on... 21:50 Oh, the fruit of the Spirit... 21:51 when you look at the fruit of the spirit, you know, 21:54 it's love, joy, peace, longsuffering, 21:57 so on and so forth, I see that, at least, 21:59 today and I'm hearing it that that exudes out of your lives 22:03 and it's because you've been 22:04 in contact with the Holy Spirit. 22:05 Thank you. 22:07 And if every marriage or every courtship 22:10 or dating was built on those principles, 22:12 then we would see 22:14 much more healthier marriages, so... 22:15 And I love that your natural compatibility, 22:20 the things that you enjoy doing are very similar 22:25 because we can attest as having been married 22:28 a bit longer than the two of you that 22:31 when push comes to shove, if you don't enjoy 22:34 doing the simple things like the dishes, the laundry, 22:37 the everyday stuff together 22:40 'cause there's a lot of everyday stuff, 22:43 but if you can enjoy that together, 22:46 it'll hold you together. 22:47 Amen. 22:49 You know, I think it's really good 22:50 that you fell in love. 22:51 I'm not opposed to the falling-in-love experience. 22:53 I think God gives us the capacity for that, 22:56 like just the dizzying almost, brain chemical response 23:01 of that initial bonding, and there's some research 23:04 to the effect that the intensity 23:05 of your relationship in that initial phase, 23:08 and, you know, dare I say it, 23:10 the sexual involvement in the initial phase 23:13 creates a neurological basis for long-term bonding, 23:15 so this is God, you know, the master, orchestrator, 23:19 brain chemicals working 23:20 by creating this falling-in-love experience. 23:23 But eventually that expense itself, and often, 23:27 in counseling, I will work with couples that feel like... 23:30 because the feelings have dissipated, 23:34 they're at the end of love and their relationship 23:36 is no longer viable. 23:37 And I say, no, praise God. 23:39 You've run out of gas 23:41 in the middle of the Mojave Desert 23:43 so that God can come along and give you new gas, 23:45 and that new gas is called agape. 23:47 Amen. It's His divine love. 23:49 And what I find... Always. That's right. 23:51 If people will continue, like Ellen White says, 23:54 "Keep exercising the early attentions, 23:57 keep bestowing those early..." 23:58 So in the courtship phase, you want to be attentive, 24:01 you want to drive all the way to Vermont, you want to, 24:03 you know, driving to Canada for a day, 24:05 and then crying on the way, 24:06 all that stuff was very natural to you 24:09 and the 5,000 candles or whatever it was, 24:11 it's all very natural. 24:13 But there's going to come a time when you're not 24:15 as motivated by your brain chemicals 24:16 to do those things, but if you continue to do them, 24:18 what you'll do is you will awaken those brain chemicals 24:21 because you've created precedent for it. 24:23 So God gives you a freebie in the beginning. 24:25 But He also gives... 24:26 It's not like when you get past that, 24:28 it's no love, joy, and bonding after that, 24:31 it's those chemicals are still there, 24:33 especially attraction is still there, 24:35 you have to choose to act, you know, 24:39 really a benevolent way toward your spouse, 24:41 and you will bring about those chemical reactions. 24:44 Yeah. 24:45 And I really believe it's only the Holy Spirit 24:47 that gives us the capacity to move 24:49 beyond that doing space to being. 24:52 And, you know, just two weeks ago, 24:55 we were in Morocco, and our first night, 24:58 we're coming back from a restaurant 25:01 and Jason's using Google Maps on his phone 25:03 and two guys on a motorbike came by 25:05 and swiped it right out of his hand. 25:08 And both of us... The phone? 25:09 The phone, they took his phone. 25:11 And we both started chasing them, 25:14 obviously we didn't make it very far. 25:16 But we stopped in this circle and I looked at Jason, I said, 25:19 "We need to pray." 25:21 Did you have a password on your phone by the way? 25:23 Yeah, I did. 25:24 And I just started praying, 25:26 and it was my first gut reaction, you know? 25:31 Amen. 25:32 And this is something that God is building in us. 25:35 And Jason told me after, "You know, 25:37 I wasn't feeling what you were feeling 25:39 in that moment." 25:40 But he chose to trust, trust my instinct to pray, 25:45 and he entered into that space with me 25:48 and we both chose to trust in God. 25:50 Now five minutes later, 25:52 we still didn't know what to do. 25:54 And so I felt inspired to pray again and I told Jason, 25:58 "We ask God to order our steps. 26:01 This is exactly what we asked for, 26:03 so He's going to work something beautiful out of this." 26:06 And we prayed again. 26:07 And not two seconds after I said amen, 26:10 a young man came towards, he said, 26:13 "I saw everything that happened. 26:15 Someone else stole 26:16 very similar phone earlier today. 26:19 There are cameras. 26:21 We're going to get this taken care of." 26:22 And he took us through this maze of police 26:25 and tourist systems to file a report 26:29 and go through all these steps 26:30 that we wouldn't have been able to alone. 26:34 And, you know, it was so powerful, 26:36 I'd love to tell you that we have the phone, 26:38 we do not. 26:40 But through that experience... 26:42 You got something greater here. That's right. 26:43 We have something greater. 26:44 And I was able to realize, 26:46 God has instilled in us a practice of being. 26:51 And here's the thing, it's like that trial 26:53 was imposed from the outside, but you're going to do 26:56 the same thing when you have trials 26:58 that involve the two of you together. 27:00 You're going to pray through them 27:02 and you're going to get through them 27:04 because God will sustain you through them 27:05 and you're going to have bonded because 27:07 "Look, we got through that, we can get through anything." 27:08 Amen. Yeah. 27:10 As an example of, you know, 27:11 us learning to trust each other, 27:13 but beyond that, like, 27:14 we have this deeper trust in God, 27:16 in His presence. 27:17 Amen. Amen. 27:18 The Bible says that a wise man builds his house 27:20 upon rock and you're building your house upon Christ 27:23 because you've built your lives, 27:24 your building your lives on prayer. 27:26 Praise the Lord. 27:28 Well, we've heard an amazing story 27:30 of how prayer partners became life partners, 27:32 we've heard about the courtship, 27:34 dating phase of their life, 27:35 and how God built their romance from that. 27:37 But we've also gotten into some of the nuts and bolts 27:40 of what works in a context of a long-term relationship, 27:43 and we hope you've been encouraged by these things. 27:45 Listen, if you've run out of steam 27:48 in your relationship and you're married, 27:50 it's not the end of love, it's just the beginning. 27:53 God can bless you moving forward, 27:55 let His Holy Spirit lead and His Word be your guide. 27:59 Amen. |
Revised 2018-11-29