Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170036A
|
00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:29 We're thankful again that you've joined us 00:31 for the second half of our program, 00:33 "A Mother's Tears" 00:35 featuring our precious guest, Pat Arrabito. 00:37 She's told us her story about how her husband 00:41 and two oldest children 00:42 died tragically in a plane crash 00:45 more than 20 years ago, 00:46 and she has carried on since then. 00:48 We've discussed grief, 00:50 we've discussed our concept of God 00:52 and how sometimes these devastating experiences 00:54 can bring us face to face 00:56 with our own faith or lack thereof. 00:59 We talked about her process of growth 01:02 through the tragedy. 01:03 And now we're going to talk about 01:04 how she continued to grow, 01:07 probably some more 01:08 philosophical discussions as well, 01:10 but we also want to know you carried on in Jim stead, 01:13 correct? 01:15 He had big ideas about creating films 01:18 and you carried on in his stead 01:20 and carried the ball forward so to speak. 01:22 I want to quickly introduce our panel today. 01:25 This is Rob Davison, 01:26 professional counselor from Maryland. 01:28 This is Nicole Parker, she's a biblical counselor 01:31 from Tennessee. 01:32 Dr. Jean Wright from my hometown, 01:35 Philadelphia, 01:36 and he's a clinical forensic psychologist. 01:40 Did I say it right this time? 01:41 Yes. I did. 01:42 And Pat Arrabito, author and... 01:46 Well, you may be not a book author 01:47 but you're a content creator, producer, 01:51 director of LLT productions. 01:54 My greatest title is mother. Mother. 01:57 And now you have two children, Andy and Adel. 02:00 And Adel has how many children? 02:03 Adel has three boys and number four on the way. 02:06 On the way, 02:07 and they're missionaries in a foreign country 02:09 that we can't talk about. 02:10 So, Pat, you're going to tell us 02:12 what happened from the point that you left us off forward. 02:16 You had a ministry to carry forward. 02:18 Well, Jim had been producing, 02:21 it was his dream to produce a documentary series 02:24 that would trace the history of Sabbath, 02:26 and show how the Sabbath was preserved 02:27 through the centuries. 02:29 You know, because we both grew up 02:30 in Sabbath-keeping families 02:32 but we kind of thought we started, 02:33 you know, in the 1800s and it was a revelation test 02:36 to realize that somebody had always kept the Sabbath, 02:39 you know, God always had His people. 02:41 So he researched that and he was... 02:44 His goal was to produce, that's why they were in Alaska. 02:46 He was collecting some interviews 02:48 on a story in Alaska, an Inupiat, 02:52 native who had come to the knowledge of the Sabbath 02:54 through God teaching him directly 02:57 in the mid 1800s. 02:59 So they were up there to do those interviews 03:00 at the time of the plane crash. 03:03 And you know, I had met Jim before I ever met you 03:06 at a camp meeting, 03:08 and I thought he was the most incredible person 03:10 I'd ever met in my life. 03:11 He told me at the airport, 03:13 we're waiting for the ride at the airport, 03:14 and he told me about some of the projects 03:15 that he was involved in. 03:17 And I thought, 03:18 "What a remarkable human being!" 03:19 And then I heard about the death, 03:21 and I watched the funeral on a video 03:22 that someone had made, 03:24 and I saw you speaking at the funeral, 03:25 and that's the first exposure I've had to you. 03:27 Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 03:29 You know, before we talk more about that, 03:31 I want to say one more thing that really struck me about God 03:35 through that experience. 03:38 A lady that I knew who had two boys the same age 03:40 as my boys been out of town or something when it happened. 03:44 And about three weeks later, we ran into each other 03:47 and she said, "Is it true what I heard about 03:50 Jim and your boys?" 03:52 And I said, "Yes, it is." 03:53 And her response was, "Wow, if it had been my boys, 03:57 I couldn't know that they were saved." 04:00 And it really struck me what her view of God must be. 04:05 You know, would God have let my boys go 04:08 without knowing that He could save them. 04:11 Could I trust God with that promise 04:12 that I'll contend with Him, and He contends with you, 04:14 and I will save your children? 04:16 Can I trust that He will do that 04:17 or can I trust that God loves my children so much 04:21 that He doesn't want to lose them 04:23 and He'll do everything in His power 04:24 to make sure that they're saved? 04:26 It almost felt like that lady was the one responsible 04:28 for saving them 04:29 and, "Oh, I would have lost out 04:31 because God would have, you know..." 04:32 'Cause my kids weren't ready yet. 04:33 I couldn't know for sure 04:35 that my kids were ready to be saved. 04:37 And I could say, I could look at my boys 04:38 and say, "I'm not sure that they're ready to be saved, 04:40 they were good kids, 04:42 they've been chosen to be baptized. 04:44 But, you know, I could see their faults. 04:48 You know, how could I know?" 04:49 And while they were in Alaska, 04:51 God put on my heart to pray this specific prayer for them 04:54 that He would put love in their hearts 04:56 as a motive for their choices. 04:58 It's not enough to do right 'cause your parents tell you 05:01 to do right. 05:02 It's not enough to do right 05:03 just because the Bible tells you what to do. 05:05 You know, doing right God's way is doing right 05:08 because you love. 05:09 And I wanted God to put that in their hearts, 05:11 I wanted them to obey, 05:14 and I wanted them to treat people well 05:15 because they love them. 05:17 And I know that God answered that prayer 05:19 because He said in Matthew 7, "Ask then you'll receive. 05:22 And if a son asks his father for bread, 05:24 he's not going to give him a stone." 05:26 So because of those promises, 05:28 I know that God did that for my sons. 05:30 And when that woman said that to me, 05:31 it just really broke my heart that she wouldn't know for sure 05:36 that God would do His absolute best 05:38 to save her sons and not let them go 05:41 if they weren't ready to be saved. 05:42 That's right, 'cause He is sovereign. 05:45 And I don't know about your view 05:46 but I think you have the same view as me, 05:48 like God doesn't make bad things happen 05:50 but He certainly could stop them 05:51 in terms of power, 05:53 He's powerful enough 05:54 to make everything go perfectly. 05:56 And we've seen God make things happen. 05:57 Yes. 05:59 You know, I've seen God... 06:00 I mean, when Jim was traveling, 06:01 you know, other trips for the project, 06:03 there were a couple times 06:04 when he was very close to losing his life, 06:06 and he saw God's hands saving his life. 06:09 So then the million-dollar question is, 06:10 why if He has the power to make things go right, 06:13 why does He make things go right? 06:14 And I think the simple answer to that is, 06:16 He has to let sin show itself for what it really is. 06:19 And if He were to micromanage the consequences of sin 06:22 and undo really the normal consequences of sin, 06:26 we would never become acquainted with this thing 06:27 that has destroyed planet earth. 06:30 We would never realize how bad it is. 06:31 We would never realize the sinfulness of sin 06:33 if we didn't suffer the consequences. 06:35 That's right. 06:36 Sin's very nature is that it is unjust. 06:38 And if God says, 06:40 "No, I'm not going to let anything bad happen, 06:41 nothing unjust can happen to this innocent people," 06:45 the universe would never have the evidence they need 06:48 to figure out whether 06:50 selfishness is a better way to run the universe or love. 06:53 It's interesting because we know families. 06:56 I know families, 06:58 parents who do micromanage their children. 07:00 And I know families who let their children grow. 07:02 We all are raising kids, have to choose, you know. 07:04 We all have our style. 07:06 How are we gonna teach our children to be responsible. 07:07 I was way on the freedom side. 07:10 Well, you know, you want your children to grow up 07:12 and know how to make their own choices. 07:13 And I've watched families or children 07:16 don't ever get to make choices, 07:17 and they never allowed to say no, 07:19 and then they don't know how to say no to things 07:22 that they should say no to. 07:24 And they let other people make their decisions 07:26 because their parents have made all their decisions. 07:28 I wanted my kids to make their own decisions. 07:30 Statistically, an authoritarian style of parenting 07:33 tends to lead to kids being weak in that area, 07:37 and often they will join gangs 07:39 or, you know, other organizations 07:41 because they're used to decisions 07:43 being made for them. 07:44 Exact same thing, you can bear that out statistically. 07:46 Yeah, yeah. 07:48 I wanted my kids to make their own choices 07:50 to learn how to be. 07:51 But when they're young, 07:52 you have to teach them what to think 07:54 but as they get older, it's our job to teach them 07:57 how to think, 07:58 so that they can take the things 07:59 we've taught them and implement them 08:01 into their own life choices. 08:03 I'd like to come back just to for a moment 08:05 to what you were saying, what you were also saying, 08:07 Nicole, that there was a certain amount of retrospect 08:13 that happened for you after the fact that helped 08:16 with your healing process. 08:18 Can you tell us what that was like? 08:20 What you looked back on to make you realize, 08:23 "Okay, now I see God's hand in this?" 08:27 And how you were able to see the eternal 08:30 through the present after the fact of the tragedy? 08:34 Well, I think, you know, those promises 08:36 that I had read before or preparation. 08:41 You know, I think that 08:42 the assurance that I had received before 08:45 in my own journey that God is good, 08:47 and that foundational to everything is God is good, 08:50 and God loves me. 08:52 So you were prepared for the crisis 08:53 before the crisis came. 08:54 And when it hit, 08:56 you had a foundation on which to... 08:58 for your healing to build on. 09:00 I'm thinking of a scripture in this wonderful little book 09:03 by Karen Nicola. 09:06 I think you know her. I know Karen. 09:08 And she lost her child and so she was compelled 09:10 to write this book called "Comfort for the Day." 09:13 And she has a beautiful scripture, 09:15 it says, "For a light affliction, 09:17 the reflection is never late when we're going through it." 09:21 "But in retrospect which is but for a moment 09:24 is working for us 09:26 a far more exceeding in eternal weight of glory 09:29 while we do not look at the things 09:30 which are seen 09:32 but at the things which are not seen. 09:33 For the things which are seen are temporary 09:36 but the things which are not seen are eternal." 09:38 And oh, my goodness! 09:40 We don't experience that during the crisis. 09:42 No, it doesn't seem light at all 09:44 or it doesn't seem like a moment. 09:45 But you know, I want for eternal things 09:48 to be as a real to me as earthly things. 09:51 You know, I want to see the perspective that 09:54 I have a whole universe on my side, 09:56 and I'm just in this spot with the enemy 09:59 for a short and small time, that's what I want, 10:02 not that I always do see it that way 10:04 but that's the truth. 10:06 And I had this sense that God was with me 10:08 and that He surrounded us and we weren't alone in it. 10:13 When God sends the light affliction 10:14 which is but for a moment, 10:16 He's not trying to minimize the severity of our pain, 10:18 He's trying to get us to take a step back like you do 10:21 when you're painting, you know, you get lost in the minute, 10:24 so you step back and you look at the big picture 10:26 and that's what He's telling us to do here. 10:28 And you know, that for me, I had that. 10:30 For my kids, 10:31 they didn't necessarily have that. 10:33 So what your kids, 10:35 what happens to kids happens to you too. 10:36 And I had to walk this walk with them. 10:39 One morning, I gave Andy the dishes 10:42 to set the table for breakfast, and I handed him the bowls, 10:47 and he stopped and he looked at me, 10:49 he said, "Only three bowls?" 10:53 And it was so... 10:55 To go from a family of six to a family of three 10:59 was so quiet in the house. 11:01 And my kids didn't want to be home. 11:03 They wanted to be somewhere else, 11:04 they didn't want to be home. 11:06 And we had friends who would take the kids 11:07 over to their house, you know, a lot. 11:09 And I started them on music lessons 11:11 and did stuff to keep them busy 11:13 because home just was not the same. 11:16 And once again, 11:17 we talked about this in another program 11:19 but when we're dealing with grief, 11:21 you know, we cannot run from the pain. 11:23 The pain is going to come 11:24 and we have to face it and feel it. 11:26 But we can't be stuck there, we have to be able to do life. 11:29 And you were trying to do life for your children 11:31 with activities and try to normalize 11:35 as much as you can this process. 11:38 You couldn't normalize it completely, you couldn't. 11:40 Nothing was normal, you know, but I tried to keep structure, 11:44 the same structure and the same kind of schedule 11:47 that we had had before, 11:49 and then I tried to fill their time. 11:50 And we were homeschooling, and then at the same time, 11:54 Jim wasn't down at the office doing the office stuff. 11:57 So for about six months, I didn't go in either. 12:02 Other people were taking care of stuff and I stayed home. 12:04 But after about six months, I started, you know, 12:07 just going in a little bit in the afternoon 12:09 and doing some of the shipping stuff. 12:11 Did you ever think about just folding it all up? 12:14 No. No. 12:15 No, you know, we had watched God 12:18 provide for that project. 12:19 You know, He had provided funding 12:22 and Jim was always praying for a million dollars. 12:24 And you know, some money started coming in 12:26 that we could move forward with it, 12:27 and there were some volunteers 12:29 that were helping with research. 12:31 And I knew God, 12:32 we both knew God was going to do this project, 12:34 we had no doubt. 12:35 And when Jim was gone, 12:37 I still knew God was going to do that project. 12:39 And I figured, you know, 12:41 if I was willing God would do it through me, 12:43 and if I wasn't willing, 12:44 He'd find somebody else to do it. 12:45 And I knew that I wasn't capable of doing it 12:47 and I don't have the same gifts that Jim had. 12:49 So I just prayed that God would send people 12:52 who knew how to do it. 12:53 And in the meantime, I know how to research 12:55 and I could start the research 12:56 'cause everything was in his head. 12:58 There was no documentation for anything. 13:00 There was a storyboard, 13:01 almost 600 pictures that showed. 13:03 And this was really before computer technology 13:04 where you can do that. 13:05 We had just gotten our first computer, 13:07 we were doing bookkeeping on it. 13:08 So he had drawn, you know, a storyboard 13:11 that showed the people, places, events in the order 13:13 that he saw it going, but you know, 13:15 I didn't have documentation for these people 13:17 that were on there. 13:18 And I had, you know, for me, I had to have it done well 13:22 with good documentation and footnotes and everything 13:25 so that I had to know enough to know 13:26 what to keep and what to leave out. 13:28 So for the sake of the viewing audience, 13:29 can you just give a little summary 13:31 of what you were actually working on? 13:33 I was working on stories that relate 13:35 to how the Sabbath 13:37 was preserved through the centuries. 13:38 Right, okay. 13:39 So, you know, 13:41 how many people know that St. Patrick 13:42 really wasn't a Catholic, 13:43 that he was part of the early apostolic church, 13:45 and that he honored the seventh-day Sabbath? 13:48 So being able to document that, 13:50 and many, many, many other stories 13:52 through the centuries, you know. 13:54 And I'd go to a book 13:56 and then I'd go to their footnotes, 13:58 and then I order the books that were in those footnotes. 13:59 And then I'd go to the footnotes in those books 14:01 and the library at PUC would get these books for me. 14:04 And you know, I put it all... 14:06 this time, all in the computer. 14:09 And by the time I got done, 14:11 it took me eight years to research. 14:13 And I kept saying, "God, I know you can do this faster. 14:16 Please send somebody who can do it faster 14:17 and better than me." 14:19 Pat, this is a very significant part 14:22 of the healing process 14:23 that you were sharing right now, 14:25 in that, you were carrying on the legacy of your husband, 14:29 and that work needed to be carrying on 14:30 and that was healing for you. 14:32 Yeah, and it became mine. 14:34 After a while, it wasn't his, it was mine. 14:36 Yes. 14:38 That's how you're preserving the memory 14:40 and the influence of your husband, 14:42 and that's so important for us to do 14:44 when we're grieving 14:46 as how can we honor that person's life. 14:48 Yeah. 14:50 You know, it's interesting, 14:51 I have a relative who lost her husband recently. 14:54 And the next week, 14:56 she went into the closet and cleaned it all out. 14:58 I couldn't do that. 15:00 You know, my son's room 15:02 was the evidence of their existence, 15:05 and I couldn't just go and remove all the evidence 15:08 of their existence. 15:10 It took me a year before I could really take, 15:15 you know, put away all their stuff 15:17 and all of Jim's stuff. 15:18 And that's okay. 15:19 Because that was, you know, 15:21 it's the evidence of their existence. 15:23 You know, we're all different that way too, 15:24 some people can just go in, "This is my new life today." 15:26 But you know, for me, 15:28 it was a process adapting to the new life 15:31 that I have to live. 15:32 Now if those clothes are in the closet 15:34 20 years later, that would be complicated. 15:36 That might be complicated. 15:38 Twenty years later, 15:39 I'm taking them out and smelling them. 15:40 And then you hit on something I think is so important. 15:43 A dear friend of mine 15:45 lost his son to the opioid epidemic. 15:47 And you can imagine how she felt. 15:50 And her husband took it one way 15:52 and was not handling it well. 15:54 And she started a foundation to help other parents 15:58 that have children that are addicted to opioids 16:00 to help them get through it. 16:02 And so that bouncing back, that ability to use grief 16:06 and that the trauma that happened to her, 16:08 she was able to then reach out and help other people 16:10 through a project that's going to save thousands of lives. 16:13 And so this documentary that you put together 16:16 and people see that, it did something for you, 16:19 but think about all the other people 16:20 that it's gonna help as well. 16:22 Yeah, I think one of the crucial things 16:23 that we have to understand, 16:25 all of us are grappling in this world 16:26 with this central problem of faith or unbelief 16:30 which is going to be my path in life. 16:32 If I'm going to trust God with my life 16:34 or if I'm going to trust myself, 16:37 but crisis just catapults us into this. 16:40 It catalyzes everything 16:43 that is the anguish of our hearts 16:46 and makes us question where we really stand. 16:49 Every sin starts with unbelief. 16:52 And then when we engage in unbelief, 16:54 we doubt the character of God, 16:56 we doubt that He is good or loving. 16:58 Then inevitably, we engage in pride. 17:01 We start trying in some way to be God, 17:04 to substitute or to say, "If I were God, 17:08 I wouldn't have done it that way, " 17:09 which is essentially saying we're better than God. 17:12 And that's where crisis sends us, 17:17 it forces us to grapple with who God is. 17:19 Then kind of see who we really are. 17:21 Right. 17:22 You know, that kind of tested the stability of our faith. 17:25 Right, if we come out the other side 17:28 still believing He is good, 17:30 we've essentially grappled with, 17:32 "Is God who He says He is in His Word 17:34 or is He who I feel He is 17:36 or who my life circumstances have told me He is." 17:39 That's the essential choice. 17:40 Right, and that's where the challenge I think 17:42 it's for your young children. 17:44 She had a foundation, and she knew God was good 17:46 and she could reach back over her life and say, 17:48 "Okay, I have evidence." 17:50 But a seven-year-old, a nine-year-old there... 17:53 Doesn't have that history. Doesn't really have that. 17:55 They can only go about what we put in them, right? 17:57 Right. 17:58 What you said earlier, and so that's I think, 17:59 what really hit me in my chest 18:01 when you talk about your young children, 18:03 your daughter went one way in terms of, 18:04 "I don't want to deal with it." 18:06 And your son, the other way. 18:08 And so as a mother, seeing that, 18:11 what was that like for you? 18:13 Well, and you're always trying to meet your children's needs, 18:15 you know. 18:17 We did lots of talking, you know, my son, 18:20 you know, feeling like God isn't that good 18:21 or God isn't that loving. 18:23 We did lots of talking about it but, you know, talking is good, 18:26 and it has its place that doesn't necessarily 18:29 change the heart. 18:30 And to this day, my prayer for my son is that 18:33 God will reveal Himself to him, 18:36 because ultimately God has to do that, that job. 18:39 And my daughter found God for herself personally 18:42 five years later. 18:44 I would say that my son is still looking for that. 18:48 Work in progress. 18:50 He still has to grapple with that central question, 18:52 "is God who He says He is in His Word 18:54 or who I feel He is and who the circumstances 18:56 have seemed to tell me He is?" 18:58 And he tended to remember negative things, 19:00 it's more his personality to do that, 19:03 as well as the fact 19:04 that he required more discipline 19:05 than my other children did. 19:07 And so, you know, that is a memory to him 19:10 that maybe he was bad. 19:12 In fact, he even said afterwards, he said, 19:13 "I'm so bad, I'll never go to heaven." 19:15 He felt responsible for their, you know, 19:18 he took that like kids do that somehow it's his fault 19:21 that it happened. 19:23 And probably happen 'cause they don't like him. 19:25 And if they don't like him, God doesn't like me either. 19:27 And he expressed all of that. 19:29 That is the worst possible conclusions. 19:30 Yeah, and we talked about it, you know, 19:32 and we reasoned with him, 19:33 and we memorize scripture together 19:35 that would answer those doubts. 19:38 But it takes, you know, 19:40 it takes the Holy Spirit telling a person those things. 19:43 And the Holy Spirit uses people. 19:45 And we haven't talked too much about. 19:47 Well, we have talked about support. 19:48 You were a support for your children. 19:51 And I like the word catapult into crisis 19:54 because it's such a word picture, 19:56 you were catapult within the crisis. 19:59 What was your humanly support system for you? 20:02 Yes, what did you have? 20:03 Do you had church fellowship within? 20:05 Yeah, we had a church family, 20:07 we had a community that knew us. 20:09 I have family that's close. 20:10 My dad and mom lived right there in the community. 20:13 So I feel like our family was very supported. 20:17 And my children were very supported, 20:20 they were very protective of the dad spot 20:23 like they didn't want anyone trying to father them, 20:26 not even their grandpa 20:27 couldn't try to act like a dad to them. 20:29 They didn't want discipline from grandpa, 20:31 they want grandpa to be a grandpa, not dad. 20:33 So it made it a little bit more difficult for them 20:37 'cause they were so protective of that spot. 20:39 But, you know, there were men in the community 20:42 that took an interest in my kids. 20:44 There was a teacher and I put Andy in school 20:46 in sixth grade specifically to have this teacher 20:49 who had known our family for many years. 20:51 And he took on a responsibility especially with Andy for years. 20:55 And we had difficult times, 20:57 there were times when I called him 20:59 in the middle of the night. 21:00 There were times when we went down 21:01 when he was in the middle class. 21:03 Really? He would come out, yeah. 21:04 Yeah. 21:05 That's perfect because children, 21:08 they don't know it 21:09 but when they're missing their parent figure, 21:11 for someone to step in and not try to be the father. 21:15 But still to be a support that they don't know that they need. 21:19 It's a beautiful thing that happened. 21:21 I'm glad it happened with you and your family. 21:23 Yeah, you know, it was a wonderful thing. 21:26 There's still that huge hole there 21:27 because no one steps into that hole, 21:30 and the hole is there 21:32 and the kids are aware of it all the time. 21:34 If someone stepped into that hole, 21:36 I could see where they'd almost feel like 21:38 it was discounting who had been in that hole before. 21:42 May be so. Yeah. 21:44 In a child's mind especially. 21:45 And I think my kids were self conscious. 21:48 As Andy expressed it more, 21:49 you know, he felt like he was the only kid 21:51 that didn't have a dad among all these kids, 21:53 and that made him self-conscious. 21:56 I'm wondering how you handle that logistically 21:58 you're going into work now, 22:00 you're also homeschooling your kids. 22:01 What in the world? 22:03 How did you...? 22:04 I had help for a while. 22:06 A lady and her kids came and stayed with me, 22:08 and they homeschooled the kids in the mornings 22:10 while I went in. 22:12 And then the next year, 22:13 my kids are with the home-school group. 22:15 So I wasn't the hands-on only home-school teacher for them 22:21 after Jim died. 22:23 And they both turned out okay academically? 22:25 I mean, both your kids are really bright. 22:26 Yeah. 22:27 It was Marian, Andy's you know... 22:30 He was a Navy SEAL for 10 years 22:32 and now he's got his own business. 22:33 And he's... 22:35 Yeah, academically, they did fine. 22:36 My kids always tested very well on tests. 22:39 He's an entrepreneur so he started a knife company, 22:42 he makes custom knives. 22:44 I had an event at my farm, at my retreat center. 22:47 Guy pulls out a knife 22:49 because he knew you, he knew Andy. 22:50 And he pulls out a knife that Andy sold him. 22:51 Is that right? Yeah. 22:53 Yeah, yeah. 22:54 So moving forward, 22:56 were you catalyzed 22:58 that you can bring these projects to completion 23:01 by the fact that you knew Jim had envisioned them? 23:03 Was that driving you 23:05 or was it that you wanted to do it for yourself, 23:06 or can you not do yourself? 23:08 I just knew God was going to do it. 23:09 And He would use me if I'm willing 23:12 or He would find somebody else to do. 23:14 I knew God was going to accomplish it. 23:16 That's cool. 23:17 So I prayed that He would send the people 23:18 who knew how to do it 23:20 and by the time I finished research 23:22 eight years later, 23:23 I had a document 23:25 that was over 200 pages of notebook, 23:27 it had a 1000 footnotes. 23:29 In the footnotes some of them had up to 10 sources. 23:32 And Dr. Dom Steak at the seminary 23:34 had agreed to be my scholar, 23:35 so he read through it all and he would read my... 23:37 He would go to my sources, 23:39 he would let me know if I needed more documentation 23:41 in any area, he would let me know 23:43 if a source was not credible, 23:45 he showed me how to write every footnote... 23:47 What a blessing and that's not, 23:48 that's pretty tedious writing to go through. 23:51 Well, you know, I mean, it's interesting, 23:52 it was interesting stuff, 23:54 but when we actually came to production 23:56 a script writer needed to take it which I knew, 23:59 script writing is different 24:00 than writing a book or compiling research. 24:04 So then God sent the scriptwriter, 24:07 and the producer, and the host, 24:08 and all that and the money and God did it. 24:11 I remember the first time I met you, 24:12 it was at a conference 24:14 and, you know, we were chatting, 24:15 I think we went to lunch with another person 24:17 and you kind of said offhandedly, 24:19 I need a million dollars by Sunday. 24:21 So I was just like, 24:22 "Who is this woman who needs a million dollars." 24:26 But you did, and you raised the million dollars... 24:29 I didn't raise a million dollars. 24:30 God provided it. 24:33 So just give us a brief not show version 24:35 because I know you're going to do a larger program 24:37 on your project itself I think. 24:39 But people know about it, 24:41 but give just a nutshell version 24:42 of what you've been able to accomplish 24:44 by the grace of God through LLT productions. 24:46 Well, we have the doc, the Sabbath documentary, 24:48 the seventh-day series 24:49 which is five programs each one, 24:51 five DVDs each one covering 24:52 in different time period in history, 24:54 there's a bonus feature DVD that goes along with it 24:56 and that series has been translated into 24:58 I think 25 languages now, 25:01 and it's used all over the world. 25:03 Because the Sabbath is at the roots 25:05 of just about every culture somewhere. 25:08 And then after that we want to talk about 25:09 the state of the dead 25:11 because the Sabbath and the state of the dead 25:12 are the two issues that are most confusing, 25:16 almost deceiving people the most, 25:19 I'm not saying that very well. 25:20 And so many people 25:22 grapple with what happens when a person die. 25:23 Those are the questions. 25:24 The state of the dead is the bigger question 25:26 than the Sabbath for people right now anyway 25:28 because of spiritualism and us being post Christian... 25:31 And because everybody's going to die. 25:33 So if you're, if you know you're going to die 25:34 you kind of want to know sooner or later 25:36 what's going to happen to you. 25:38 So we started work on that with a film entitled 25:42 "Hell and Mr. Fudge," and it's a feature film, 25:44 it's based on the true story of a man 25:47 whose real name is Fudge, Edward Fudge. 25:50 And he was hired to find out what the Bible really teaches 25:53 about eternal torment. 25:55 Does God torment people for eternity or not? 25:58 And by the time he finishes his research and goes through, 26:01 what he goes through in the process, 26:03 he knows that God doesn't do that 26:07 that death is death, not life. 26:09 You know, because most of the Christian world believes 26:11 that there is no death, 26:13 there is either eternal life in heaven 26:14 or eternal life in hell. 26:15 They don't believe in death. 26:17 Essentially that's what it is. Yeah. 26:19 And it's the best film of its type 26:23 that I have ever seen. 26:24 It's an excellent film, it's entertaining 26:26 and how they turned such a theme of as a man 26:29 studying his way into the new doctrine, 26:31 into a very entertaining film 26:33 is one of the seven wonders of the world 26:35 because it was done, and it was done well. 26:36 It's the kind of thing God does, 26:38 He makes gold out of dirt. 26:39 That was amazing. 26:40 Because He knows you're just dust 26:42 and then He says, 26:43 "I'm going to make gold out of it." 26:45 And I have to admit when I meet people 26:46 and I'm like you're such 26:47 a behind the scenes kind of person 26:49 but when I meet people I'll be like, 26:50 "Have you seen Hello and Mr. Fudge, " 26:51 and they would be like, "Yeah, that was amazing." 26:53 And I'd be like, 26:54 "I happen to know the producer of that film. 26:55 She happens to be a really good friend of mine, 26:57 you know." 26:58 It's really a privilege to know you, 27:00 it really is, yeah. 27:01 Isn't it interesting, Pat, 27:02 that the projects you have worked on 27:04 have been related to death. 27:06 And I wonder if you would have been able 27:07 to accomplish what you did 27:10 having not going through what you do. 27:12 It does certainly change a person's perspective 27:16 and it opens this 27:17 whole new world to you of people 27:20 who also experience death. 27:22 Amen. 27:23 And the fact that you had gone through this 27:26 and you found such comfort in knowing 27:28 what the Bible says about death gave you 27:31 I think a strength that other people would envy. 27:34 I mean, I remember when I was grappling with, 27:36 is my husband going to survive, 27:39 it was so important to know God's love. 27:42 I don't think the best way to say 27:47 it is true triumph from tragedy. 27:49 I think the best way to say it is beauty from tragedy. 27:53 That's what we've heard about today. 27:55 And God can do the same thing in your life, 27:58 believe it and everything will change. |
Revised 2018-12-30