Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170038A
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00:26 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:28 We are so thankful that you have returned 00:30 for the second installment 00:32 of "escape from the black hole of depression." 00:36 Or I should say part two. 00:37 But we're calling it this point 00:39 escape from the black hole of depression, 00:40 anxiety, insomnia, and a bunch of other problems. 00:43 This is the story of Steve Wolhberg. 00:46 He's shared his descent into this black hole 00:50 during the first part and now he's going to share 00:52 his ascent out of the black hole. 00:54 But he's put it all in this nifty little book, 00:56 just a little pocket book type of thing 00:58 that I assume people can get off of your website 01:01 from White Horse Media. 01:03 So WhiteHorseMedia.com. 01:04 Correct. 01:06 You'll find this book and whatever you forgot 01:07 from this program, 01:09 you can see in the book and get a copy of that. 01:11 It's called help for the hopeless. 01:12 Help for the hopeless. 01:14 And you were indeed hopeless, weren't you? 01:15 You were just at the end of your rope. 01:17 I was. 01:18 I have ever been at the edge of my rope like I was. 01:22 Yeah. As I went through this. 01:24 We kind of went with you 01:26 'cause we're all, you know, counselors. 01:27 So we're very empathic 01:29 and we were feeling the last time you talked. 01:31 Let me introduce my panel here, this is Paul Coneff. 01:34 He's from Texas. 01:35 He's a marriage and family therapist, 01:37 and a speaker, and an author and etcetera, etcetera. 01:39 This is Jean Wright, 01:41 Dr. Jean Wright from Philadelphia. 01:43 He's a clinical forensic psychologist, 01:45 and an author, and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 01:48 This is Christina Cecotto from Tennessee. 01:52 She's a counselor 01:54 and she's going to be an author someday. 01:55 And she knows a lot about 01:57 the health message and self care. 01:58 And we're so glad, each of you are here. 02:00 And we also have Steve Wolhberg, 02:02 the director of White Horse Media, 02:04 and the man behind the story of help for the hopeless. 02:07 So how did you get out of the black hole, Steve? 02:11 There's a great text to start with. 02:12 Okay, good. 02:14 Psalm 50:15, there were verses that I clung to 02:17 in the midst of the darkest days 02:19 that I've ever been in my life. 02:22 Verse 15, Psalm 50:15 God says, 02:25 "Call upon me in the day of trouble, 02:28 I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me." 02:33 And, you know, as we kind of recap the last program, 02:36 I had a problem with sleeping, insomnia, and in order to sleep 02:41 because I don't do well when I don't sleep, 02:43 I started taking tylenol PM, 02:45 and then worked my way slowly to ambien, 02:47 and then to other medications. 02:50 Finally, the lorazepam, 02:51 which was really messing with my head. 02:55 I was, became addicted to it very quickly. 02:58 Dr. Neil Nedley, 02:59 I had a conversation with them on the phone 03:01 and told him that I was on this medication and he said, 03:04 "You've got to get to Weimar right away, 03:06 you need to be here." 03:08 So I rerouted my life, 03:10 and went to Weimar for three weeks, 03:12 and went through his depression and anxiety recovery program. 03:17 One of those days, they took my blood, 03:20 they did a blood test 03:21 and when the blood results came back from the lab, 03:25 Dr. Nedley looked at my blood and he said, 03:28 "What you're going through right now 03:29 severe anxiety, insomnia, etcetera. 03:31 It's perfectly understandable based on your brain chemistry." 03:35 And he said, "Your norepinephrine 03:37 is 10 times higher than normal. 03:40 Your serotonin and dopamine activities are very low, 03:44 you are an accident waiting to happen. 03:46 And then he looked at me, and he smiled, and he said, 03:48 "Don't worry we can fix this." 03:51 And he said, 03:52 "All your anxiety, your insomnia" 03:54 he said, "all this is going to go away." 03:56 And I just looked at him like, 03:58 is this really true, are you sure? 04:00 And I hoped against hope. 04:02 And he said, "No, we can fix this." 04:04 So I went through his program with that focused 04:06 on natural remedies and the health, 04:10 you know, health practices 04:11 and then he recommended supplements 04:14 to adjust my brain chemistry zinc B6, B12, 04:17 he looked at my genetic makeup, 04:19 said, "You're undermethylate." 04:20 I didn't really understand that. 04:21 But he said, "We need to give you more B12." 04:24 And so anyway to make long story short, 04:26 he took me off of the lorazepam. 04:29 I went through a horrific period of two weeks or so 04:33 of withdrawals, absolute nightmare, 04:35 four nights in a row without sleep. 04:38 Finally, went back home to North Idaho, 04:41 still a basket case. 04:43 And Dr. Nedley worked with me to continue the supplements 04:47 and then to mean me 04:49 off of the remaining sleep medications 04:50 that I was on. 04:52 And finally, after about a month of being home, 04:54 after about two weeks of getting off the trazodone, 04:57 which was the last hurdle as far as medications go. 05:00 One day, I woke up and it was like a new day. 05:05 So wait a minute, I thought you stayed with him 05:07 for the two weeks, and an additional week? 05:09 I went through the 10-day program 05:10 and then stayed an additional week. 05:11 Did you improve it all while you were there? 05:14 Not that I was aware of. Okay. 05:16 So you were still a mess when you left? 05:17 I was still a mess. 05:19 And I was still on the medication. 05:20 And I couldn't sleep without taking trazodone. 05:22 But you were off of the lorazepam? 05:24 Correct. 05:25 And the worst of the withdrawals 05:26 were behind me when I left Weimar. 05:28 You went home and still struggling to sleep? 05:32 That's right. I still having sleep issues. 05:34 But then when I got... 05:36 But then little by little things started happen. 05:39 I went through a period where for almost three months, 05:41 I couldn't take a nap. 05:42 I mean, I was exhausted. 05:43 And I lay on my bed or my couch, 05:45 and I could not go to sleep. 05:46 So when I got home, one day, I was able to take a nap. 05:50 And I thought "God, something is happening to me." 05:52 And another day, I was able to cry 05:54 'cause I went through about two months 05:55 where I could not shed a tear. 05:57 When you're anxious? 05:58 And then I thought something is happening. 05:59 And there were these little microsteps of improvement 06:02 that encouraged me and told me 06:04 that God was at work, and my body was recovering. 06:08 And then when I finally got off the trazodone, 06:10 and there were two weeks after that, 06:13 there were side effects to getting off of that. 06:15 You know, I had various things that were happening, 06:17 that were just bizarre things when I kept thinking, 06:20 we're making progress, progress is being made... 06:23 And you were taking your supplements 06:25 for some time? 06:26 Yes, I was taking the supplements 06:27 that he'd recommended every day, 06:29 religiously getting off the medication. 06:31 And then two weeks after I got off the trazodone, 06:34 after I went through two weeks of side effects. 06:36 One day I woke up and I felt normal. 06:40 And I was just shocked. 06:42 After sleeping how long? 06:44 I probably slept. 06:45 I don't know, I don't remember six or seven hours that night. 06:47 Wasn't terrible? No. 06:49 And so I was beginning to sleep more. 06:51 And one day I had developed an appetite again, 06:53 I started getting hungry for my wife's cooking. 06:55 And so one by one 06:57 this little improvement started. 06:59 And then when the cloud lifted the next day, it came back. 07:04 But I thought, "That's okay. 07:06 We're making progress. 07:07 This is not permanent." 07:09 It's a positive self talk? That's right. 07:10 I was telling myself that God is helping me 07:14 based on the promises of the Bible. 07:17 And so then the next day after that, 07:18 I woke up in the morning and the cloud was gone. 07:22 It was a cloud. 07:23 It was like just a dark, 07:24 a dark sense of bleakness. 07:29 And it lifted and it hasn't come back. 07:33 And so... Praise God. 07:35 I just knew, you know, it's like, 07:36 somebody pushed a reset button. 07:38 God pushed a reset button and reset my brain chemistry, 07:43 my life, and he gave me my life, my life back. 07:48 Now, were you doing any lifestyle changes 07:50 during this time? 07:51 Oh, yeah, I was. 07:53 Yeah, I mean, like I said, the hot and cold therapy 07:54 we have, it was winter in Idaho when I came back after that. 07:58 Let's see, was it? 08:00 No, it wasn't, it wasn't quite winter yet. 08:01 But winter came shortly 08:04 when I came back from Weimar in a little while. 08:07 And I have a hot tub in my backyard. 08:10 And when the snow fell, 08:11 my daughter Abby, my 10-year-old, 08:15 we would go in the hot tub, and then dive in the snow. 08:18 And I texted to Dr. Nedley and I said, 08:20 "Here's our hydrotherapy." 08:21 And he said, "Do you really do that, 08:23 you really dive in the snow." 08:24 And I sent him a picture of Abby in the snow. 08:27 You know, they use water therapy in Germany 08:28 to treat depression? 08:30 So, yes, the hot and cold continued, 08:32 the healthy diet continued, the supplements continued. 08:35 Dr. Nedley recommended 08:36 a quite a bit of flax for your brain... 08:38 Exercise? 08:40 And exercise, 08:41 and certain kinds of beans, you know. 08:43 So we hit it from all sides, from all sides. 08:47 And ultimately, God worked through everything, 08:51 through the supplements, 08:52 and through getting off the medication. 08:54 And eventually, the cloud was gone. 08:58 And I was able to go back to work, 09:01 I'm able now to write a book, I'm able to be here at 3ABN, 09:05 I'm able to still travel and speak. 09:07 I've learned that I've got to slow down. 09:09 I can't, I don't want to get myself back into that hole. 09:12 I want to, you know, protect myself. 09:15 Did they tell you to burn the accelerator? 09:17 Yes, that was one of the things they did that there were 20, 09:20 there were 20-20 of us 09:21 that were having all kinds of problems. 09:23 You know, there was, 09:24 people were a mess when they got there. 09:26 And you could see the improvement taking place. 09:30 One gal was just, she was like a zombie. 09:32 And after 10 days, 09:34 she was laughing, she was smiling. 09:36 And we all just looked at her like, 09:37 "Wow, praise God, this works." 09:39 So even though, 09:41 even though I wasn't completely restored yet, 09:43 I had reason for hope. 09:45 And so I've done my best to keep with the program, 09:50 continue to trust the Lord. 09:51 When I was at Weimar, 09:52 I confessed everything I could think of, 09:54 cleared my conscious as much as I could, 09:56 and continue to trust Him, trust His love, 09:59 trust, His grace, trust that He cared about me, 10:02 and that He was going to help me 10:04 and that He was not only going to get me through this, 10:05 but then He was going to use me to help other people 10:08 who are going through similar things. 10:09 So that's what this is all about. 10:11 Right. 10:12 And, you know, I'm thinking Jesus 10:14 suffered and died, didn't die. 10:16 The gospel said, "He suffered, died, and rose from the dead." 10:18 And He was in Gethsemane overwhelmed 10:20 with sorrow to the point of death. 10:21 So He has been to, 10:23 we're not saying He's depressed, 10:24 we're saying He was overwhelmed with the attacks of the enemy. 10:26 And that trusted in His Father. 10:28 And because He got that victory, 10:29 that's where He gets the power 10:31 to make His promises true in your life. 10:32 That's right. 10:33 You know, at the end of the chapter on Gethsemane, 10:35 in the book, The Desire of Ages. 10:36 After he prayed that prayer three times. 10:38 And finally, He, you know, 10:39 was resolved fully to go forward. 10:42 It says in the book Desire of Ages, 10:44 that His depression and discouragement left Him. 10:48 And I read that and that showed me that 10:50 Jesus experienced depression in the Garden of Gethsemane, 10:55 it was a nightmare for Him that will never understand. 10:57 He felt that blackness... 10:58 That's right. 11:00 The devil's telling Him, 11:01 there's no light at the end of the tunnel. 11:02 You've gone too far, You'll be separated forever. 11:04 And again, on the cross, you know, 11:06 He would foretells us that He can identify with us, 11:08 He sympathize, why? 11:10 Because He's been tempted like us, 11:11 in all points yet without sin. 11:13 And so I'm wondering, you know, 11:15 that because He went through it, 11:17 He can be a compassionate, 11:18 sensitive Savior who understands. 11:21 He walked in your shoes, got the victory, 11:23 and now He has a power 11:24 to bring you out of it, brother. 11:26 So I'm wondering, 11:27 what was it like for you now 11:29 to come on the out on the other side of this 11:31 when people talk to you, yeah, I'm struggling with depression, 11:32 with anger, 11:34 because a lot of times in the church, 11:36 a typical response, I travel and do a lot of training, 11:38 the typical response I hear from people is, 11:40 "Well if you pray more, if you try harder, 11:42 if you do more." 11:43 So the emphasis on my performance, 11:45 then they feel judged, they feel unsafe, 11:47 and they don't share. 11:48 So I'm wondering when you go through a dark time like this, 11:50 and God brings you out of it by His grace, 11:52 by all the different resources you've used. 11:55 How do you hear people differently, 11:57 what's different now when people call you, 11:58 talk to you, when you're out in the front lines of ministry? 12:02 Talking about their brokenness, their struggles? 12:03 Well, I can certainly relate to them. 12:07 And my compassion, if you want to call that, 12:10 or my ability to empathize has definitely grown. 12:15 After I got through this door 12:17 unexpectedly opened in my home church for me 12:19 to take the pulpit and I shared this story. 12:23 And the response was so phenomenal. 12:26 I never expected, we recorded it, 12:28 put it on AudioVerse, people can listen to it online, 12:31 and the responses that we have received 12:33 from so many 12:34 that are struggling with the same thing 12:36 that just told me 12:37 there's a lot of people out there 12:39 that are struggling with this. 12:40 That's why we want to, you know, 12:41 that's why I put the book together, 12:43 want to try to provide the resources, 12:44 and all of this has just increased 12:46 my interest in helping other people 12:49 that are going through what I'm going through 12:51 or was going through. 12:52 One lady I talked to on the phone, she was crying. 12:54 And she just said, 12:56 "I didn't sleep at all last night, 12:57 you know, I've got two kids, what do I do?" 13:00 And so I connected her to Dr. Nedley, 13:02 and I've been praying for her, I still know her name, 13:04 I won't mention her name. 13:05 But so, you know, I just... 13:09 You know like the old story of the Grinch 13:11 who stole Christmas, you know, his heart enlarged three times. 13:15 And my heart has enlarged 13:16 and I feel for people that are going through 13:19 what I went through, and I want to help them. 13:21 I want to throw in something really quick here. 13:23 And then I know, I want you to talk about 13:25 trauma-informed church. 13:26 But you mentioned Dr. Nedley's program, which is excellent. 13:30 I refer clients there all the time. 13:31 Another option is abide counseling. 13:34 Abidecounseling.com 13:36 has a whole network of counselors 13:39 that come from a biblical standpoint 13:40 that do telephone and Skype work with people, 13:44 either coaching or counseling, depending on the situation. 13:48 That would be, if they don't have a severe enough problem 13:50 to sign up for Dr. Nedley's program, 13:52 that would be another option. 13:53 They don't have the financial resources. 13:55 Oh, they don't have the financial resources 13:56 to do that, 13:58 so counseling or coaching 13:59 can be significantly less expensive. 14:00 So that'd be another thing. 14:02 Because I'm seeing you like, 14:04 you get this thing out on AudioVerse 14:05 and everybody's calling you, 14:07 eventually you're going to get overwhelmed. 14:08 No, that's why we direct people 14:10 in the little booklet to Dr. Nedley's program. 14:14 And then he has a workbook, he has a DVD, he has a clinic, 14:17 there's a phone number there, people can call, 14:19 and get counseling. 14:21 And so we try to hit it in many different ways. 14:23 And I just can't praise the Lord enough 14:26 for what that program did for me. 14:27 But, you know, whether people can go to Weimar or not, 14:30 one of the overriding messages that I've learned is that 14:33 whatever you're going through, God can get you out of it. 14:36 And don't go through it alone. Yeah. 14:38 Don't try and get just willpower through our own. 14:41 So, Jean was talking about trauma-informed church, 14:44 and I love that. 14:46 I love that label. 14:47 Can you tell us a little about that 14:49 because I think it fits this story very well? 14:51 Yes, kind of where Paul was hitting on 14:52 when he was talking about people saying, 14:54 "You just need to pray more, 14:55 or people unintentionally question your faith, 14:58 you know, they mean well, 15:00 but it really talks about training a congregation 15:03 and I usually try to start with the leaders in the church, 15:05 the clergy, deacon, the deaconesses, 15:07 whoever has a leadership position, 15:09 and helping them go through trauma-informed training. 15:11 So they understand what trauma is 15:14 that they understand how it impacts people, 15:16 that they understand how to address people, 15:18 something as simple as not asking the question, 15:21 what's wrong with you? 15:23 That's a terrible question. 15:24 It's judgmental. 15:26 It puts people in a difficult position 15:28 to question who they are, the question... 15:29 So someone's having anxiety, and they tell someone, 15:32 "I'm really having some struggles with anxiety." 15:33 And the person says, "What's wrong with you?" 15:35 Yeah, the question you should ask, 15:37 "Is what happened to you?" 15:39 And what Steve described in the first program 15:42 and this program speaks to what happened to him. 15:44 And the really important piece is, 15:46 if you have a trauma-informed congregation, 15:49 you have much more education. 15:51 And I'm not talking about necessarily book knowledge, 15:53 I'm talking about experiential knowledge 15:55 about how to be a help, how to be a comfort, 15:58 how not to traumatize people by questioning their faith, 16:02 questioning their prayer life, questioning their class. 16:03 So you're asking more about their story? 16:05 Yes. 16:06 And, you know, in Philadelphia, 16:08 we teach people how to tell their story, 16:09 which is an essential piece too 16:11 because sometimes a person can tell the story 16:13 and traumatize folks. 16:14 But if you can tell a person 16:16 how to hit the essential parts of their story, 16:18 so that it's a benefit, then you have what Steve has, 16:21 which is the ability to help other people heal 16:24 because of the healing that he's experienced. 16:26 Well, I think is, we need to be careful 16:27 about not saying we necessarily, 16:29 but anyone who's struggling, 16:31 you want to reach out to someone you can trust. 16:33 I mean, not everybody's going be able to provide 16:36 what that person needs. 16:37 And everyone is not equipped. 16:39 So how do we keep safe people in the church? 16:40 Right. 16:41 We need to definitely focus on that. 16:43 But what the Bible actually talks about 16:44 leaning on the strong. 16:45 And so there are some people who are too weak 16:48 to actually be able to hear your story. 16:50 And so being able to identify, 16:51 okay, who is that person that I know 16:52 is going to be compassionate and empathize with me, 16:55 as opposed to say, 16:56 "Oh, you know, what's wrong with your faith? 16:58 What's wrong with your relationship with God? 16:59 Let's, talk about that." 17:01 Did you run into that, Steve, where people were like, 17:03 they couldn't handle you being anything but Superman? 17:07 No, no. 17:08 No. Praise God. 17:09 Not at Weimar. 17:11 The people all around me were very, very sympathetic. 17:13 The staff was wonderful. 17:15 What about before Weimar though? 17:16 I'm talking about people that...? 17:18 In the church? 17:19 Yeah, a lot of them didn't know 17:20 because I didn't explain this to them. 17:22 And when I finally told my stories, 17:24 people in the church knew that something was wrong. 17:26 And a lot of them were praying for me. 17:27 Yeah. 17:29 But when I finally stood up one morning in church 17:30 during the church service and gave my talk, 17:33 they really didn't know the details. 17:35 Would it have helped you think 17:36 if there had been an environment in church 17:38 where people could hear each other out on that? 17:40 Or would you still not have shared? 17:42 I just, you know, I don't know. 17:43 I mean, I've worked with a couple of physicians 17:45 that were very wonderful people that, you know, 17:48 recommended on a temporary basis, 17:50 these medications, you know, I don't think they, you know... 17:56 It was, it was Dr. Nedley's program. 17:58 It was the blood work, 18:00 and it was him seeing my brain chemistry, 18:03 and recommending the supplements, 18:05 and then getting me off the medication. 18:07 I think that's what I really needed. 18:09 And so for me, just to have a sympathetic ear, 18:13 I think that would have been wonderful. 18:15 But I don't think it would have solved my problem. 18:17 I needed professional help, 18:19 and the professional help that he offered... 18:21 But a friend that actually you said though, 18:22 you reached out to somebody and they said... 18:24 Yes, that was a part of it. 18:26 That was part of it. He said what? 18:27 Because when Nathan picked me up... 18:29 And when Gary Gibbs when you talk to him, 18:31 Gary said, you should talk to Dr. Nedley, right? 18:32 That's right. Yes, that's what Gary said. 18:34 And the friend that I had at Nathan, 18:36 when Nathan pick me up and drove me to the institute. 18:39 When I first got there and told me 18:41 that he had a similar story. 18:42 I mean, him sharing with me and that encouraging ear 18:46 and that he could relate to me. 18:48 Someone who is competent. 18:49 I mean, yes, I mean, that really did help me 18:52 to give me hope that this program can work. 18:56 And that God can get me out of this 18:57 because He brought Nathan out, He can bring me out. 18:59 And then a lot of Dr. Nedley staff 19:02 are people that used to be patients, 19:04 they've been through this, and they've come through, 19:06 so they're there to encourage people. 19:08 So people that have been through, it's like me, 19:10 I can now encourage somebody else 19:13 that I've been there and God brought me through, 19:16 and He can help you. 19:18 So there's definitely a huge place 19:20 for the sympathetic ear and the shoulder to cry on, 19:23 and somebody to tell you that, you know, there's hope for you. 19:26 But I still, I feel like the professionalism... 19:29 You had a brain issue? 19:30 And I had a brain issue. 19:32 Doesn't have to be either, Paul. 19:33 I think part of an expert there. 19:36 But I would say is, 19:37 I think part of our wisdom and being a safe community 19:40 and listening is to know what we can do 19:42 and what we can't do. 19:43 And so when someone says, "Hey, I'm listening, 19:46 I'm hearing and you need professional help. 19:48 That is something that I think 19:49 the church needs to be aware of that we don't turn, 19:52 we don't wave magic wands. 19:53 That's right. 19:55 Just to tell me, I'm going to pray for you. 19:57 I mean, that's very, very valuable. 20:00 But I needed... 20:02 We need to help people get the help they need. 20:04 I did. 20:06 We need prayer and action. 20:07 I can't avoid that fact 20:09 that God led me there to help me with issues 20:13 that other people just really didn't understand. 20:15 Didn't have the ability. 20:17 But one thing that Steve did was he applied 20:19 the eight laws of health, even after Weimar. 20:21 And so he took action. 20:23 And once he had the education as to what to do 20:26 to address his issue, he then took action. 20:29 You're talking about self care? 20:30 Self care, essentially, the eight laws of health. 20:32 And we were talking a little bit 20:35 before this program started, 20:37 and we were talking about what self care is, 20:40 and my definition differs just a little bit. 20:42 Self care, essentially, is just taking care of yourself, 20:44 making sure you're pacing yourself, 20:47 making sure you're getting that down time. 20:50 In fact, one of the secrets to success in a Christian walk 20:53 according to Ellen White is that 20:55 we take time for ourselves, time to pray, 20:58 time to think, slowing down. 21:01 And Jesus did that. 21:02 He said, "Hey, 5,000 people, 21:03 I'm going to go over on the other side of the lake, 21:05 and I'm going to take some time for Myself." 21:06 Even Jesus did it. 21:08 And so many people, especially Christians feel guilty 21:11 to take time for themselves. 21:12 So self care, you know, doing the eight laws of health, 21:17 making sure you take care of yourself, 21:19 and Jesus did not burn Himself out. 21:21 Well, He really did work very, very hard. 21:24 But if we aren't taking care of our bodies, 21:26 our temple where He resides, 21:29 then we can't be an instrument for the Lord. 21:31 There's guilt sometimes 21:33 associated with taking time for ourselves. 21:35 Would you say that before this crisis, 21:37 you had some of that or no? 21:39 Probably. But... 21:40 Or do you have it now? 21:42 You know, I like to exercise 21:43 and I've always known that I need to exercise. 21:45 But now after being through this 21:47 and burning the accelerator, I feel even stronger, 21:51 that taking time in my garden and in my orchard and working, 21:56 you know, outside is exactly what I needed. 21:59 Do you have the guilt associated with that 22:01 that you did at one time, 22:03 or did you not, or you passed that? 22:05 Well, it's a balancing act, because I mean, 22:06 I would like to spend a week in the garden. 22:09 Spend a whole week. 22:10 Once you get out there, it's like... 22:12 And I do have bills to pay and I do have a ministry. 22:15 And so, you know, life is a balancing act 22:17 between, for me it's family, 22:18 yard, garden, ministry, traveling, 22:21 and I have to try to live a balanced life. 22:24 And that's what God wants. 22:26 This is a little technical, 22:27 but you could put filters on your screen 22:30 that make it less offensive to your brain, 22:32 so to speak, there's one called flux, 22:34 have you used that? 22:35 Yes, I have heard about that. And we need to look into that. 22:36 It helps... 22:38 So you can even take on like people even take yellow glasses 22:41 that filter out the ultraviolet... 22:42 I don't know, whatever. 22:44 And you can do that, they put them on a couple hours 22:46 before they go to bed and it helps their brain 22:47 get ready to sleep. 22:49 Yeah, I don't remember if it's the first program 22:50 or this program where I mentioned that 22:52 Dr. Nedley believes that 22:53 spending too much time in front of a computer screen 22:56 was a contributing factor in all of this. 22:58 So that's a good suggestion. 23:00 So you're not thinking that there was any kind of like, 23:03 baseline anxiety, I've got to conquer the world 23:06 kind of, you know, belief system going on, 23:09 there was nothing like that pushing you right there. 23:11 Well, like I said, I'm a type A personality 23:12 and, you know, the high achiever, 23:17 underneath the high achiever in my own life, 23:20 I've recognized the insidiousness 23:22 and the all pervasiveness of pride. 23:26 That is, it just goes back to, 23:29 ultimately to Lucifer, who exalted himself. 23:32 And I have to keep reminding myself, you know, biblically, 23:37 it's not of works, lest any man should boast, 23:40 we're saved by grace and, all of, you know, 23:43 achieving is not going to earn anything, 23:46 that it's the grace of Jesus, 23:48 and the cross and His merits, and His love. 23:52 And so, you know, this, 23:53 this is part of the spiritual battle too 23:55 because what, I mean, why did I push myself so hard? 23:57 Were you more tempted to trust in your own achievements 24:00 before this crisis, 24:02 and less inclined to do that afterward? 24:06 I don't know if that... 24:08 I think that I'm more aware, and it's an ongoing, you know, 24:12 sanctification is an ongoing process, 24:14 and you continue and this has been a burden 24:17 and the conviction of mine for a long time, 24:19 that the battle between pride and humility 24:22 is very, very real. 24:24 And God has taught me, "You know, learn of Me, 24:26 I am meek and lowly in heart, 24:28 and you will find rest for your soul." 24:30 So there's rest in humility. 24:33 There's a rest in trusting in Him and not in me. 24:36 And that's an ongoing lesson. 24:38 And I think that this struggle has deepened the conviction 24:42 that He's in charge, not me, 24:44 take time for yourself, rest, relax. 24:47 Don't get yourself into the hole again. 24:48 You deepened your ability 24:50 to rest in His righteousness and His merits. 24:51 Yes. And depend on Him. 24:53 Yeah. 24:54 It's not that you didn't know that before. 24:55 You could preach sermons on it before. 24:57 But you have been made more capable 25:00 of actually putting it 25:01 to practice the deepest parts of your inner being. 25:05 Well, and this is consistent 25:06 with what we learned in the scripture, 25:08 the disciples walking with Jesus, 25:09 different leaders in the Old Testament, 25:11 New Testament, they're telling their stories 25:13 of what were their learning curves. 25:16 It wasn't just everyday is better with Jesus, 25:18 did better the day before, I go from victory to victory. 25:21 What we see in the Bible is... 25:22 But we like that song. Yeah, we like that. 25:24 It's not biblical, but it's a nice song. 25:27 You know, if you get in an airplane, 25:28 they tell you, if an oxygen mask falls, 25:30 you put it on you or your child first? 25:32 Yourself. Yourself first. 25:34 But we say Jesus' joy, you know, Jesus, others first. 25:38 If we don't do self care, we can't be there for people. 25:41 And I look at the scripture 25:42 as the stories of the disciples, 25:44 the stories in the gospels 25:46 are the disciples telling themselves, 25:47 how they missed the main message 25:49 at every step of the way before the cross. 25:51 So there's this honesty, 25:52 there's this authenticity they have 25:54 of not beating themselves up at saying, 25:56 "Here's where I was, here's where I am, 25:58 here's where God's bringing me." 26:00 Bring you sanctification to use that word. 26:01 Exactly. 26:03 And if I can be honest with people about 26:04 where I am in my journey, and how I'm, 26:06 God's growing me, 26:07 that to me is more encouraging to people 26:09 than to tell people I have it all together. 26:11 Don't you think sanctification is just getting 26:13 the righteousness of Christ down 26:15 deeper and deeper into hole. 26:16 On daily basis. 26:17 Like 'cause we all know it technically, 26:19 but to actually live it and like over fig leaves 26:22 and our idols and stuff and stop trusting ourselves, 26:24 that's like... 26:25 These things happen to us and people say, 26:26 "Well, things happen to you for a reason." 26:29 But if you don't understand the reason 26:30 and the reason is to help others, 26:32 then the difficulties we go through 26:34 may fall unused. 26:37 We may not learn the lessons 26:38 that God wants us to from scripture... 26:40 And then you have to come back with another one. 26:42 And then Steve's story, our stories 26:43 now can be a blessing to many other people. 26:45 Not that He wants us to go through these. 26:47 No. It's not about shame. 26:48 No it's not like you're such a train wreck before 26:50 and God had to give you. 26:52 It's more like He saw that you were ready 26:54 and He wanted to drive the message of the gospel 26:56 even deeper down into you 26:58 so He gave you this huge mountain 27:00 you have to climb, you couldn't get over it. 27:01 And sometimes He has his faith... 27:02 He's expanding your influence... 27:04 Faith goes, yeah, with a foundation 27:05 and a platform and that may be the person 27:07 that can get the message out. 27:08 This may have not been Steve's experience. 27:11 But I can say for many of the clients 27:13 that I tend to see is that many of the reasons 27:16 why they're unable to overcome the depression 27:18 is because they are judging themselves so hard. 27:20 So hard. 27:21 And they feel like they shouldn't be crying. 27:24 They shouldn't be feeling this way. 27:25 And so they on top of the depression, 27:26 they are also... 27:28 They're shaming themselves. Right. 27:29 Oh, man, with this we could go on and on and on 27:31 with this topic, don't you think, guys? 27:33 I mean, this has been really good. 27:34 It's been a gripping journey with Steve Wolhberg, 27:38 escaping from the black hole of depression, 27:40 anxiety, panic attacks, and insomnia, 27:42 and a bunch of other things. 27:43 He went down into the depths, but by the grace of God, 27:46 he rose up to the triumph of a new life 27:48 in Christ knowing Jesus 27:50 and His righteousness better than ever before. 27:52 This book, read about the story and be blessed. 27:55 We hope you join us for the next episode 27:57 of A Multitude of Counselors. |
Revised 2019-01-03