Participants: C.A. Murray (Host), Jim Gilley (Host), Alex Schlussler, Jeff Zaremsky, Ralph Ringer, Sasha Bolotnikov, Shawn Boonstra (phone)
Series Code: NLL
Program Code: NLL14701A
00:01 We're live right now from Plantation, Florida,
00:05 and... beautiful Seventh-day Adventist Church here
00:09 and we're having a tremendous Series... Anchors Series...
00:13 that has been featuring
00:17 the Jewish...
00:19 "Reach out... Reach to the Jewish People"
00:21 and this has been an exciting first two nights.
00:25 It really has...
00:26 last night we had the discussion on: Unity in Christ
00:29 and then a very interesting perspective tonight
00:33 from Jeff Zaremsky
00:34 literally counting the years of good and bad...
00:37 And really for me... that's the first presentation
00:41 of that type that I've heard.
00:42 I've never seen an accounting of that nature
00:44 but I will say this... that was very interesting,
00:48 very informative...
00:50 and when he got through, I could... I got his point.
00:54 Yes, yes, very much so.
00:55 The Christian Church was an outgrowth of Judaism
00:59 and not... not separate from Judaism.
01:02 No... or not a super-imposition on top of...
01:05 But simply an evolution of... for want of a better term.
01:08 Not a replacement...
01:09 Not a replacement, yeah... yeah.
01:10 That's right... because all the early Christians
01:12 were Jewish people.
01:14 Very much so.
01:15 And even after that,
01:17 the synagogues where... where they were witnessing
01:20 and preaching and bringing people to Christ.
01:23 Yeah, yeah, he did a little "Myth Busting" tonight.
01:24 Yes he did.
01:26 In his presentation...
01:27 now, we've got to prep you for a couple of things,
01:29 we are coming up on a Panel in just a little while
01:31 where all of our Speakers will come.
01:34 We're going to discuss a number of issues
01:36 so you do want to stay by for that,
01:38 as we said, we've been having a really, really great time,
01:41 this has been good information as we highlight the Jewish work
01:44 so we're going to talk a little bit about
01:45 aspects of the Jewish work
01:47 later on in this Night Light presentation,
01:49 we're going to meet Pastor Alex Schlussler
01:52 in just a little bit and talk a little bit more about
01:54 this particular church and his call to ministry
01:56 and some of the intriguing things that he said
01:58 on last evening...
01:59 but you've got a little something
02:01 that you want to share with us don't you?
02:02 You know, for many, many years now,
02:05 I've spent the birthday,
02:09 January the 9th of my grandson, Levi... with Levi...
02:14 I think I may have missed one
02:16 but we have had a tradition of being together,
02:20 this year, of course, he's in California
02:23 where he lives with his mom, my daughter Amy
02:26 and his dad, Ethan...
02:28 Who is Jewish, by-the-way.
02:30 Who is... that's right... and... and is a Seventh-day Adventist.
02:33 Very much so... yeah.
02:35 But it has been an exciting thing for me to see Levi grow.
02:40 Now, today is his birthday
02:42 and also, it's the birthday for my mother-in-law
02:48 it is her 98th birthday
02:50 and Levi's sixth birthday...
02:53 we see them here in this picture we took last year
02:56 at the birthday time of Levi...
02:58 or at least some time during this last year
03:00 and I am amazed... some of our staff kept saying,
03:06 "Wow, you can tell that he is a descendant of his grandmother"
03:12 I had never noticed some of those things before,
03:15 some of our group began to point them out
03:17 but Grandmother Thurman, 98 today...
03:21 Camille's dad, Roy Thurman, Pastor Roy Thurman...
03:26 was 99 last month in November
03:29 and she is 98 today... Levi is 6...
03:34 and I just want to wish them both, a Happy Birthday
03:37 because I am often able to spend birthdays with these two
03:41 but was not able to this year.
03:42 He is a fantastic little fellow,
03:43 he came into my office some months ago
03:46 and he called me his "forever friend"
03:48 and I don't think he met anybody that he did not like...
03:51 he is the most precocious, bright, engaging young man
03:54 I really, really just... you take to him quite quickly.
03:57 And he thinks a lot of you, you're his BFF.
04:00 Yeah, that's what it is, BFF...
04:02 Best Friend Forever...
04:04 That's right.
04:06 Best Friend Forever, yeah.
04:07 Well, listen, we've got some exciting news
04:10 to share with our Viewers tonight
04:13 you're hearing it for the first time
04:15 and we're trying to link up...
04:18 I don't know if we have Shawn on the phone right now...
04:20 yet or not...
04:21 but... Shawn Boonstra, can you hear me?
04:23 Yeah, I sure can Jim, how are you doing tonight?
04:26 Oh, we're doing great.
04:28 Shawn, good to hear you man.
04:29 We're having a wonderful time
04:30 I tell you something,
04:32 I believe in the ministry of Shawn Boonstra...
04:34 I have, from the first time I met him...
04:36 and of course I believe in the Voice of Prophecy...
04:38 he's now the Speaker/Director.
04:40 Had the privilege of being for 20 years
04:43 on the Board of Advisers for H.M.S. Richards Senior
04:48 wonderful privilege and Junior...
04:52 and then, being the Chairman of the Board
04:55 for five years with Lonnie Melashenko
04:59 so I love the Voice of Prophecy.
05:01 I was so thrilled when you were named Speaker/Director
05:05 of the Voice of Prophecy
05:07 and now, you have an...
05:10 an announcement to make to us tonight
05:13 that is extremely good news but it is "news"
05:19 so tell us about that, Shawn.
05:21 Yeah, this is about as "breaking" as it can get...
05:24 because it was a very distinctive development
05:27 for the Voice of Prophecy on Monday evening
05:30 and I'm going to tell you about that in just half a moment
05:32 but I've been thinking about something ever since
05:35 we got the message tonight you know,
05:37 "How bad are the Jews?"
05:38 something I've been thinking about is,
05:40 that was a great presentation and as we found out
05:42 that history isn't as negative as we thought,
05:45 you know what you need to do on 3ABN...
05:46 we need to do a presentation on "How bad are the Dutch?"
05:50 I could speak to that one... I'm the descendant of the Dutch,
05:53 we've got 25 years of miserable deeds among my people,
05:56 we could put together quite a program on that one,
05:58 2,500 years on the Dutch... what do you think of that?
06:02 We could do that program.
06:04 Can you guys hear me, yeah,
06:07 hey, now listen, let me tell you what actually happened,
06:09 Monday night, the Executive Committee of...
06:12 of the Voice of Prophecy met and it was a very big evening...
06:16 many people may realize at this point
06:19 that many of the big media ministries like...
06:22 "The Voice of Prophecy" and "It is Written"
06:25 and others... have been housed for a long time
06:28 at the Media Center in California...
06:32 really in Simi Valley
06:33 and an "action" was taken some time ago
06:35 that they're going to close the Media Center
06:40 where many of these ministries have been housed for some time
06:43 and that's going to close in 2014...
06:46 and so every ministry has been required
06:48 to go and find a new place to live...
06:50 and our Executive Committee met on Monday night
06:54 and the decision has been made...
06:56 the world discovered Tuesday...
06:57 that the Voice of Prophecy... after 84 years in California,
07:02 is going to pick up and we're going to move
07:04 to the Mile-High State... we're going to Colorado
07:08 as we move towards August and September... this year.
07:11 Wow! that is exciting news
07:15 and what were some of the reasons for choosing Loveland?
07:19 Well, listen, yeah, it's Loveland, Colorado...
07:21 is where we are going to put our home base...
07:24 and I can think of a lot of good reasons...
07:26 one of them wasn't the reason for the move...
07:29 but it's something that some people may not know...
07:33 Campion Academy is in Colorado, a fantastic school
07:36 and actually that's where H.M.S. Richards
07:39 went to school as a boy...
07:40 in fact, I was in the hallways of Campion Academy some time ago
07:44 there's a picture on the wall...
07:46 he was the first graduate of the school...
07:48 it's a class of one... when he graduated from Campion Academy
07:51 and so, in one way,
07:53 this is really a homecoming for the "Voice of Prophecy... "
07:56 now, that's not the reason but I do find it fascinating
07:59 that that's where he began his ministry
08:01 and this is where it's making a homecoming.
08:03 Let me talk for a moment about why Loveland, Colorado.
08:07 We have to move the ministry and so some of the questions
08:11 that we have been praying over and asking is
08:14 if H.M.S. were starting the Voice of Prophecy
08:16 in the year 2014,
08:18 where would he do it?
08:20 And so we really started to look across the Country
08:23 and ask the question,
08:25 "Where would be the best place for an evangelistic ministry
08:28 and a Media Ministry
08:29 like the Voice of Prophecy to operate from?
08:32 Now, a lot of ministries
08:34 traditionally have been on the coasts of the Country
08:37 and I don't know if you've noticed
08:38 but over the years... a lot of large ministries,
08:41 other Christian ministries outside of
08:42 sort of... some of the Adventist Media Ministries...
08:45 a long time ago... started moving away from coasts,
08:47 you know, you find: Focus on the Family
08:49 moving to Colorado Springs...
08:51 three years ago, Billy Graham moved to Minneapolis
08:53 and the question is, "Well, why?"
08:55 And back then... they were discovering
08:58 that some of these large coastal urban areas
09:00 are just very, very expensive and that's certainly true
09:05 for the cost of operating in the Greater Los Angeles area
09:09 you know, Los Angeles is very expensive,
09:11 New York... very expensive...
09:13 and so the question has to be asked,
09:16 "Where could we take the resources
09:18 that God puts into the Voice of Prophecy... I mean...
09:21 God's got faithful people that support the ministry...
09:24 many of them make great sacrifices to support it
09:26 and the question is,
09:28 'Where could we put less of that money
09:29 into just the sheer cost of living
09:31 and more of it right straight into the work of evangelism,'
09:35 so we need to find a place where the cost of living is reasonable
09:39 and yet the lifestyle is good
09:40 for those who put their heart and soul into the ministry. "
09:44 Now, here's what I did guys, I... I've long been a believer
09:47 that you don't ever put Esau's hair on your arms
09:51 and walk into the Father's tent and demand a blessing.
09:54 I try not to create plans and ask God to bless them,
09:57 I ask God, "Please show us what your plan is. "
10:00 And so, we got very quiet and spent a lot of time in prayer
10:04 and I said, "Lord, why don't you show us what the options are?"
10:07 I'm not going to pick up the phone and call people,
10:09 you move people to pick up the phone and call us
10:12 and the amazing thing is, in fairly short order,
10:15 10 or 11 locations out of the blue started phoning and saying,
10:19 "Have you considered this location and that location?"
10:21 So, I spent months looking and praying,
10:24 "Where would be the best place?"
10:26 And Colorado really rose to the surface,
10:28 I spent five days in prayer and fasting...
10:31 particularly at the end of December
10:33 as many people were enjoying their vacations
10:35 I was shutting everything off, phone and e-mail and everything
10:40 and waiting on God... we had done the homework,
10:42 we had looked at all the locations
10:44 and as different people were praying it was remarkable...
10:48 how Colorado kind of rose to the surface
10:50 and came into people's hearts and minds.
10:53 It makes good sense, it's a great place to operate.
10:56 We serve the whole globe but in particular,
10:59 we serve North America and if you look at a map
11:02 Colorado, of course, is almost dead center to the United States
11:07 so it's very easy for us
11:08 as we're servicing the entire continent... to get on airplanes
11:12 and in a matter of a couple of hours...
11:13 be everywhere that we need to be
11:15 so, it costs
11:16 less than some of the other Centers
11:19 yet, we have everything we need technologically...
11:21 we're close to Denver, we can get in and out easily
11:24 the lifestyle is accommodating to those
11:28 who really take Biblical principles seriously.
11:30 You know, we service the large urban centers
11:32 but families should be able to raise their children
11:34 in a little bit more of a rural setting
11:36 and so, we're just up the road from Denver,
11:38 there's just so many reasons but the number one reason, guys,
11:41 is that... as we prayed and fasted and thought about it,
11:44 God just answered it in a number of people's hearts,
11:48 I wish you could have been there
11:50 at the Executive Committee Meeting
11:52 to see how everybody...
11:53 as the idea came to 14 people's different minds...
11:56 everybody said, "You know what?
11:58 This is right, I sense it too... "
12:00 so, it is the result of prayer,
12:02 it's a phenomenal place to raise a family
12:05 and to operate a ministry... dead center of the Country...
12:07 the Rocky Mountain Conference
12:09 has always been very friendly to evangelism,
12:11 Mark Finley and I did a campaign there about a decade ago
12:15 and it just...
12:16 it was a phenomenal place to base a ministry...
12:18 there are a thousand reasons
12:20 but really the number one thing is,
12:22 if you fast and pray, God gives an answer and...
12:25 and this time around, it fell on Colorado.
12:29 Well, we think that's a great choice
12:32 and C.A. and I recently had the privilege
12:36 of interviewing some of the family
12:39 and it will be shown later on of H.M.S. Richards
12:42 and I did a lot of reading about his life...
12:46 first of all, we found that he spent most of his childhood
12:50 in the Loveland, Colorado area...
12:53 did his first preaching there...
12:55 was the first graduate of Campion Academy
12:59 and one interesting side line is that very next year,
13:04 he was invited back to give the graduation service
13:09 after only one year out of academy...
13:13 invited back to be the Speaker for graduation...
13:16 so... it... that place...
13:18 and his father had a great deal to do
13:20 with starting Campion Academy in that area
13:24 and I know that wasn't the primary reason
13:28 but I do agree with you
13:30 that if he were starting a ministry again today...
13:33 it... with all the different situations
13:36 and with the expense involved...
13:39 he probably would have made that same choice.
13:41 Yeah, we pray so...
13:44 I'm trying to really honor the dream
13:46 that God put in H.M.S. Richard's heart...
13:48 there have been few people like him... over history...
13:51 and... and he really had a dream
13:54 to do something great for the Kingdom of God...
13:56 to raise a monument to the honor of Christ...
13:58 and right now, we are trying to put
14:01 the Voice of Prophecy back on the footing
14:03 that it always had been... we're an evangelistic ministry
14:06 and I'm really trying to honor the dream...
14:09 I believe in my heart
14:10 that when God gave the dream to H.M.S. Richards
14:13 to raise up the Voice of Prophecy
14:15 that God's intent was for that to be... a loud cry...
14:18 a loud voice for the coming of Christ
14:20 till the day Jesus comes and so, I'm thrilled...
14:23 I believe this is an answer to prayer
14:25 and just a great thing for the Voice of Prophecy.
14:29 Well, listen, thank you so much Shawn, for joining us
14:32 and for sharing that news to all of our Viewers here at 3ABN,
14:38 and we will be looking forward
14:40 to news a little later on about the move
14:43 and the Facility and maybe we... you can come out and talk to us
14:47 I'm sure there will be a lot of things happening
14:49 that you'll want to share with us in the future
14:51 and you've also shared with me
14:54 the ministry of the Voice of Prophecy
14:56 will continue to be expanded
14:59 not only as a radio broadcast
15:01 but every aspect of outreach through media to God's people.
15:07 Absolutely, it was cutting edge when it came into being in 1929
15:13 and we're going to be cutting edge...
15:15 taking advantage of all of the technologies
15:18 that God's put in our path
15:19 because we've got to get this work done.
15:21 The world needs to know that Jesus is coming and...
15:23 that He died for them and so, yeah...
15:26 everybody... buckle your seat belts
15:28 and... and you're going to love
15:31 the things that God is doing...
15:33 we're really excited about what we're going to be able to do
15:36 as we bring the Voice of Prophecy
15:38 to new heights by God's grace.
15:40 Praise the Lord, thanks again Shawn and have a good evening.
15:43 Thanks Shawn.
15:44 Shawn: You guys have a good evening... nice talking to you.
15:45 Jim: We love you man. Murray: All the best God bless.
15:47 Shawn: Thank you, you bet, bye bye.
15:49 All right Jim, I'm going to step aside
15:51 and let you talk with Pr. Alex for just a moment or two...
15:53 as we get ready for our next phase.
15:56 Okay... and they're preparing the stage
15:58 in fact, perhaps behind me you can see that
16:01 several of the individuals have already joined there.
16:04 Alex, great to see you and great to be with you here
16:08 in this beautiful church
16:09 and we've been very excited about your ministry
16:14 with: Back to the Roots...
16:15 we're looking forward to the second season here right away.
16:19 So are we... we're going to be up at 3ABN
16:20 at the end of the month.
16:23 Filming Season two... and we're really excited...
16:26 it's just been so beyond our expectations
16:29 how this Program has been received by 3ABN...
16:33 by the Viewers at large...
16:34 as I was sharing with you,
16:36 we get e-mails on a regular basis from all over the world
16:39 I mean literally...
16:41 people that are being blessed and touched by...
16:43 by the ministry of that Program.
16:44 Yes, well, we're happy to have you and...
16:47 and the entire team... Rachel and Sasha and...
16:52 our crew loves working with you guys... and...
16:56 Well, we love working with them...
16:59 a great group of people there at 3ABN.
17:01 And some of them are with us here.
17:03 Yeah... yeah...
17:04 And so we really do love this entire Production Crew
17:08 they're great people... they really are,
17:09 well, listen, how long have you been pastoring this church?
17:13 I'm in my third year now.
17:15 All right.
17:18 And... so you're pastoring this church
17:20 you have done, also, the Jewish outreach.
17:23 Yes, yeah, I have...
17:24 praise God I have been able to raise somebody up
17:27 and I'm kind of an "Overseeing Elder"
17:31 of that congregation now,
17:32 it's about 15 minutes from this church where they meet
17:36 every Sabbath... still going strong...
17:39 and it's really what God calls us to do... to make disciples...
17:42 and to pass the torch on to somebody else
17:45 and to allow that ministry to continue.
17:48 That's right and this particular church
17:50 is member of the Florida Conference.
17:52 Yes, yes...
17:53 And it has been here for a number of years...
17:56 You're talking... Plantation?
17:57 Yeah... Plantation...
17:59 Oh yeah, 25... 30 years... yeah.
18:01 And it's a very solid church.
18:03 Yes, and it has a history of pastors staying for a long time.
18:08 Which I'm really blessed...
18:09 the last pastor was here 14... 15... years before me...
18:12 the one before that was 12 years.
18:14 All right... all right...
18:15 well listen, we're excited about what we're seeing here
18:20 and we really have been excited about this Series
18:24 that's taking place... your message last night
18:27 just message... tonight
18:29 and now we have a...
18:31 a Night Light...
18:32 we're going to go to the stage,
18:34 we're going to turn it over to C.A.
18:36 and we will join them
18:39 and then we're going to be talking about
18:42 some of the challenges
18:43 in reaching the Jewish people with the message.
18:48 Yes... and there are many...
18:50 There are... let's go to the stage now.
19:21 All right... that was a quick move there...
19:25 I wasn't as quick as they wanted me to be but...
19:28 I've never seen you move quite that fast... praise the Lord.
19:32 I still have a few moves left in me... but not that many.
19:36 We want to introduce our Panel for this evening...
19:39 as we talk about specific aspects of Jewish work
19:42 and Jewish ministry.
19:44 Closest to us is Jeff Zaremsky the Speaker...
19:47 just in the last hour...
19:49 very fine job... just... kind of a different take...
19:53 I have never thought of it quite that way...
19:55 and so, thank you so much for that.
19:59 Jeff is the Pastor of... let's see...
20:02 it's the Leader of Beth-El-Shalom Congregation
20:05 now you have two churches, do you not?
20:08 I don't own them... but I work there.
20:12 Two churches in New Port Richey and in the Greater Tampa Area.
20:15 Jeff: Saint Petersburg area. Murray: Saint Petersburg area.
20:16 These are part of the Florida Conference?
20:19 That's correct.
20:20 Florida Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
20:22 that's right.
20:23 Yeah... yeah... and I also help out with a magazine...
20:25 we'll probably be talking about that...
20:26 the "Shalom Adventure" Magazine.
20:28 Hmmm... hmmm...
20:29 All right.
20:30 Next, Dr. Alexander/Shasha
20:35 he's the Director of Shalom Learning Center
20:37 in the Oregon Conference so I guess...
20:38 you have come physically... the furthest...
20:40 to be with us this evening.
20:42 Yes, we just... opening the new campus
20:46 of the Shalom Learning Center
20:48 called: Shalom Learning Center Northwest
20:51 the original campus which still exists is here
20:55 in Hollywood, Florida...
20:58 about a mile from here... from this church...
21:01 and... but we're opening another campus in Portland area.
21:11 Praise the Lord... if you are a New Yorker...
21:13 or spent time around New York... New Jersey...
21:16 you know... when you hear Jeff speak...
21:18 from whence he comes... that... I was teasing him a little bit
21:23 I said... that's Brooklyn... he hasn't lost it...
21:26 he's still got a lot of New York in his speech patterns...
21:30 Sasha... you're from a little bit further...
21:32 where are you from originally?
21:34 Well, originally I am from what was known as USSR
21:38 but I also lived in Brooklyn.
21:42 All right.
21:44 And next to him is Ralph Ringer who is the Director of
21:48 North American Division Jewish Ministries...
21:50 Ralph... good to have you here.
21:52 Thank you, it's good to be here, appreciate that opportunity...
21:56 and last but not least, our esteemed Pastor...
21:59 Pastor Alex of this church...
22:02 Singer, Preacher, Student of the Word...
22:05 Alex, good to have you here.
22:06 Jewish believer...
22:08 Jewish believer... yes indeed... yes... indeed,
22:10 so, Jim, that's our Panel for tonight.
22:12 It is and we are looking forward to a very interesting discussion
22:17 and I'm looking to you to lead it.
22:20 Okay, but I can certainly start out
22:22 and you can sort of help me out.
22:24 One of the things that we...
22:25 we wanted to talk about at the beginning
22:27 because we live in such a cosmopolitan age...
22:29 there are those...
22:31 and we've heard this even at 3ABN
22:33 why do you have to have specific ministries
22:37 to target specific groups of people?
22:39 When we began with "Dare to Dream"
22:42 there were those who said, "Well, why do you have to have
22:44 a specific urban ministry?"
22:45 "Why do you have to have a specific ministry
22:48 to Arab populations?"
22:50 And so, perhaps the foundation question, Gentlemen,
22:53 that we need to wrestle with is:
22:54 Why do you have to have... what is the necessity of...
22:58 why do we need a specific ministry
23:02 to target the Jewish constituency?
23:04 Why do we have to do something special for them?
23:06 Just preach Christ... just press on...
23:08 and a lot of people are saying that...
23:11 so let's start and build a foundation from there
23:13 who wants to take that, who wants to start?
23:14 Pastor: I'll go... Hmmm... hmmm...
23:16 Well, first of all, it's Biblical
23:17 because Paul said that.
23:19 Paul said that he became all things to all people
23:22 so that they might receive...
23:24 So the idea of... of... as some people would say,
23:29 "Contextualizing the gospel" to reach the Jewish people...
23:33 can I propose something a little different, C.A.?
23:35 It's actually de-contextualizing the gospel...
23:38 to put it back in its original form...
23:40 to preach it in a way that is not just palatable
23:45 but makes sense to the Jewish people.
23:47 You know, we not only do this for the Jewish people, right?
23:50 We have Muslim ministries, we have inner-city ministries...
23:54 we have ministries that deal in Hispanic cultures and so on
23:58 so, I think that... to even pose that question, really,
24:02 as you said, in the times that we live in
24:04 doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
24:05 Ah ha... ah ha...
24:06 And really there's more to it than just language, for instance
24:10 when you're dealing with... even Hispanics...
24:12 most Hispanics in the United States understand English
24:17 but they worship much more
24:20 in their own context or their own style,
24:23 now one of the things
24:24 that we have to sometimes explain to people...
24:26 we're not trying to get all Seventh-day Adventists
24:30 to dress like Jeff dressed
24:32 for the last Service that he just did
24:36 with a prayer shawl and the whole bit...
24:39 that's not the purpose...
24:41 it's not the purpose to get
24:44 the Seventh-day Adventist congregations
24:46 to go back, you might say
24:48 into, say, Feast Days and things of that nature,
24:51 that's not the purpose of moving out...
24:54 it is to have a contextual worship
24:58 that appeals to the segment of
25:01 the population that we're trying...
25:03 as you said, "All things to all people. "
25:07 But you know, Alex gave a good Bible text
25:12 but if you look at Acts of the Apostles
25:14 page 380 and 381...
25:18 there it's stated, "There should be a special work"
25:24 in the first part of that paragraph...
25:27 it says, "A special work in the last times
25:31 for the Jewish people who have been long neglected"
25:35 so Biblically and from the Spirit of Prophecy
25:39 and just... as you mentioned culturally...
25:44 there are at least three good reasons
25:48 why we need to have a specialized work
25:52 now, I might say that,
25:55 yes, as an Evangelist...
25:59 and I've held over about 181 series of meetings...
26:03 occasionally you will reach
26:07 a Jew...
26:08 but they are few and far between...
26:11 and it's not tailored...
26:13 it's the ones that's on the fringe... as it were...
26:16 that are not really involved
26:19 and sometimes, don't even consider themselves
26:22 they're Jewish...
26:24 are the ones we usually pick up occasionally here or there
26:29 that's like... at a harvest... you have a few scattered...
26:34 like the whittles used to go out and glean...
26:38 we have a little bit...
26:39 but it's time to quit gleaning and go to harvesting
26:43 and that's why we need a... a Jewish work
26:47 that goes beyond just the gleaning.
26:49 Hmmm... hmmm... Sasha.
26:50 It is interesting to... what Alex talked about
26:54 de-conceptualization... and I can...
26:57 and I can... and I want to piggyback on this.
27:01 We often misread the text of the Bible...
27:04 we think that... oh, after the stoning of Stephen,
27:10 the Word of the Lord came to Gentiles
27:13 and the Jews were done away with...
27:16 if you look carefully at the Book of Acts...
27:20 especially how the term "Christians" came about...
27:25 before that text about the Antioch Church
27:31 that first became Christians
27:32 it said that those who are scattered from Jerusalem
27:38 came around different places preaching the gospel
27:43 to no one else but the Jews
27:46 and non-Jews tagged along.
27:50 See, what our problem is, we are going by the model
27:56 and that's often being preached by a number of Evangelists
28:01 who say, "Oh, we just do the work...
28:03 we just preach the gospel and Jews will tag along...
28:07 well, in the Book of Acts, it's the opposite...
28:11 the gospel has been preached to the Jews
28:15 and the non-Jews would come to the Word of God preached...
28:21 which was preached to the Jews.
28:23 See what happened when the... historically...
28:26 when the Church actually changed the paradigm
28:29 it was changed in the second century
28:33 and... especially after Constantine when Christianity
28:38 became an officially recognized State Church,
28:42 they shifted the paradigm and began to preach to Gentiles
28:46 so how did they contextualize that?
28:49 First they changed from Sabbath to Sunday
28:53 to accommodate Gentiles...
28:55 then, instead of reading the Word of God,
28:58 they started to bring pictures which became: images and icons
29:04 and see what Christianity came about
29:07 and the Reformation needed to shed it away
29:11 and so... what the Preacher...
29:15 if we go back to the Biblical paradigm...
29:18 this is actually in the context of Reformation.
29:22 Hmmm... hmmm...
29:23 And with that... because... because of that shift...
29:26 and in the Jewish contextualization,
29:29 we look at Jewish people here in America
29:32 and they look very Americanized right,
29:34 it's hard to tell the difference often,
29:36 so we think, "Well, then why do they need any...
29:39 they speak English, like, say, some people don't... so... "
29:41 but it's also all the imagery,
29:43 in the Christian church...
29:45 not that these images are bad or anything like that...
29:47 we have crosses and things like that...
29:48 but over the years...
29:50 of the 2,000 years of Christian persecution against Jews...
29:54 "false-Christian persecution against Jews"
29:56 with the Crusades and things like that...
29:58 they would take crosses and hold it over people
30:01 and say, "Bow down to this or we cut off your head... "
30:04 and sometimes if they bow down, they'd still cut off their heads
30:06 and put them on horrible tortures and things like this
30:10 and so, that association with... with images
30:13 that represent to "a Christian" the glory of God...
30:18 the death of Christ...
30:20 in a beautiful way...
30:22 the same images... to a Jewish person...
30:24 have a different context... have a different image to it...
30:27 kind of like, if let's say, if two people...
30:29 they marry and they have a child...
30:33 and the wife wants to name the son, "Abraham"
30:37 because... or the father wants to name the son, "Abraham"
30:39 because that was his father's name...
30:41 that's a good name...
30:42 but the wife says,
30:44 "Oh no, I don't want to name him Abraham...
30:45 that was my father's name and he was abusive...
30:47 he abused me... he abused my brother...
30:49 he abused my sister... he abused my mom...
30:50 the last time I saw him, he was trying to kill my mom
30:53 and of course the police came and shot him...
30:55 and so I don't want that image in my mind. "
30:57 There's nothing with the name, "Abraham"
30:58 so one guy has a different picture... a different image...
31:01 than to the other person and that's the same thing...
31:05 so a different setting... different context...
31:08 to present the same message.
31:09 Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm.
31:11 Also, along with... with Jeff is saying...
31:13 this idea of "Why would we want to so call 'contextualize'
31:19 or make something unique and specific... "
31:21 and really, for so many reasons...
31:23 like... what Jeff was mentioning
31:25 even my experience...
31:26 and I'm sure... Sasha and even Jeff have experienced that,
31:31 I mean, growing up Jewish...
31:32 I never heard anything positive when it came to Christianity,
31:37 okay, even down to...
31:39 as hard as it may be for some people to hear this...
31:41 even Jesus... and His name,
31:43 because in the context that I grew up...
31:45 the only time I ever heard "Jesus"
31:47 was when someone was using it to swear...
31:49 that was the context that we heard
31:53 and as Jeff said, a cross didn't mean salvation...
31:58 it meant, "Duck" because
32:01 someone's going to die or get hurt...
32:03 when I was growing up, I had a group of people
32:08 that were "supposed Christians"
32:10 that burned a Cross on our yard
32:12 knowing that we were Jewish...
32:14 so, if we're trying to reach out to the Jewish people
32:19 a big part of that is being sensitive
32:22 yeah... C.A. Jim... you guys...
32:25 you didn't do that...
32:27 and that's usually the common response,
32:29 "Yeah, but we didn't do that"
32:30 but understand... that's not how a Jew sees it,
32:33 a Jew looks at the history of the Church
32:35 and says, "Why would I want to be a part of something
32:38 that has done nothing but persecute me?"
32:41 And it's not Jesus that did it, right...
32:43 it wasn't "real Christianity" that did it...
32:47 it was this "thing" that it became for so long
32:51 you know, so...
32:52 when we talk in the context of creating these congregations
32:56 that are "Jewish friendly"
32:58 I mean, what we're doing is
33:00 we're trying to remove the stumbling blocks
33:03 that history has put there in the path of the Jew
33:06 so that we can present Jesus or Yeshua...
33:10 in the way... just like I expressed last night
33:13 in my message, "I didn't even know he was a Jew...
33:15 and as soon as I found out
33:16 it began to open a whole new world
33:19 to how I wanted to try and understand Him. "
33:23 You see, one of the things that we're emphasizing
33:27 in the Jewish work in the North American Division...
33:30 the term "conversion" and "baptism"
33:34 look... they are very negative words to many Jews.
33:40 They're not converted...
33:43 they're Jews who find their Jewish Messiah...
33:46 that is in a context that Alex was just talking about,
33:52 so it also helps them
33:55 because the early persecution of the church
33:58 was not from the pagans...
34:01 it was from... as Jeff pointed out...
34:04 from fellow non-believing Jews
34:07 so many of the Jewish people who do accept their Jewish Messiah
34:14 will be persecuted on both sides...
34:17 from the Gentiles and from their own people
34:19 and we need to make that as... to be sensitive...
34:28 to make that as easy as possible
34:31 because they're going to get plenty of flak
34:33 and persecution and ridicule.
34:37 We need to be there to support them
34:40 and help them to realize how... that the Jewish Messiah, Jesus,
34:45 loves them, has died for them
34:48 and is soon coming for them again
34:50 and that their heritage
34:54 is where as Paul says,
34:57 "To the Jew first... " and how it all came
35:00 the Law came through...
35:01 Jesus Himself came through the Jews
35:04 so why should we not put a Jewish work first...
35:10 as Paul said, "To the Jews first and then to the Greeks. "
35:14 It is interesting in my experience
35:19 leading and planting a number of Jewish congregations
35:27 in New York and in Chicago,
35:29 I learned from people... Adventists who were helping me
35:34 that unlike any other outreach missionary work,
35:40 you know, and some people go to the farthest islands
35:45 preaching the gospel to different tribes
35:50 and things like this,
35:52 this work changes people
35:54 and makes them look into Bible differently
35:59 because, while we can talk about
36:02 the meaning of Jews and Israel today,
36:07 what is definitely undisputable fact
36:11 that our Bible is written in Hebrew language
36:17 and the Hebrew language is not some kind of a dead language
36:23 which is some kind of a quote that came from heaven,
36:28 this is the language of...
36:31 this is the living language of living people
36:35 and even getting to... in order to work for Jewish people,
36:42 it requires a very deep knowledge of Scripture
36:48 which basically makes people search
36:53 the true roots of Christianity.
36:56 I was thinking, when we send missionaries out,
36:59 the Church is wise enough to send them
37:02 through a regiment of training...
37:04 to try to sensitize them to the fact
37:06 that everybody doesn't want to be an American Christian...
37:09 that everybody doesn't see Christianity
37:11 precisely the same way you do
37:13 and that American Christianity comes with a certain packaging
37:16 that is not always appetizing to everybody
37:20 Alex alluded to something,
37:22 as an adult Seventh-day Adventist Pastor,
37:24 I had a cross burned on my lawn for a totally different reason
37:27 but I'm sensitive to the fact that symbols...
37:30 depending on how they are used carry very strong meanings
37:35 and you cannot divorce those symbols from those meanings
37:39 so, if you're trying to win someone to Christ,
37:41 you've got to speak a language that they understand
37:44 and one size does not fit all.
37:47 Some of the things that we do and say as American Christians
37:51 are patently offensive to people in other cultures
37:55 and if we're trying to win them to Christ,
37:57 you've got to be sensitive to that fact.
37:59 One of the things that we are looking at here tonight
38:02 is, how do we work for this group of people?
38:06 differently than... than maybe others
38:09 Recently... I've mentioned this before,
38:11 a young friend of mine
38:13 was visiting with the Billy Graham Association...
38:17 with one of the Leaders of that Organization
38:20 involved with setting up evangelistic meetings
38:23 that is his duty...
38:24 and he identified himself as a Seventh-day Adventist
38:28 and this gentleman looked at him and said,
38:32 "There are many of us who believe
38:36 that Seventh-day Adventists
38:38 are the ones to reach the Jewish people"
38:41 and then he said something,
38:43 he said, "I am a Sunday-keeping pork-eating Baptist... "
38:48 he said, "You are a follower of Leviticus 11
38:53 and you keep the Sabbath. "
38:56 Now, who is more likely to have a common ground... to begin with
39:02 with Jewish people than Seventh-day Adventists?
39:06 Now this young man has been working over in Israel...
39:09 back and forth between America and Israel
39:11 and we began to talk about that.
39:13 One of the ways that we're hoping through 3ABN
39:19 because 3ABN is an Organization of television
39:24 where we have programs like, "Back to our Roots"
39:27 we have an attitude of positive approach to the Jewish people
39:33 in just about everything that we do,
39:35 there are some... always some people
39:37 that will be a little different, you know that,
39:40 but we are going into the homes of millions of Jewish people.
39:46 They may or may not accept...
39:49 but they get a view of the Messiah...
39:51 they get a view of the Sabbath,
39:52 they get a view of the health message...
39:55 they get a total view that's different.
39:58 We believe this is one of the ways
40:01 that God is going to reach these individuals
40:05 but we also know that there are other ways
40:08 and that's what we want to hear from you
40:11 how are you doing it now,
40:13 how are you reaching those Jewish believers?
40:18 Jeff, I know you're doing it.
40:19 Um... and like you say,
40:21 theologically... that's very important.
40:25 But it's more than theological.
40:26 They just recently did a study, a Pew Research...
40:29 and Jewish people put: Religion, Sabbath, things like that...
40:33 very low on what would make them Jewish.
40:36 It was like 20 percent,
40:38 53 or something said, "A sense of humor... "
40:42 to show that they were more Jewish
40:43 and they had a higher percentage of that
40:45 than theology or religion
40:48 or living out the religion but culture is very important
40:51 so, yes, we need the right theology...
40:52 but we also need then... the context and so
40:55 some of the things we do is, the congregations where I served
40:58 we have decorated the buildings to make them Jewish friendly,
41:01 to just natural... because it should be natural
41:04 because like you said, "We've got the Jewish Messiah
41:07 and the Jewish Sabbath... and the Biblical Sabbath
41:10 and all the rest,
41:11 so, to make the setting beautiful too
41:13 and to make the setting natural and comfortable.
41:16 The music as well... the way we dress...
41:18 like you said, the Tallit and the Yarmulka...
41:20 and... and... so just the culture...
41:23 we eat... like the bagels, right, so, we have bagels there
41:25 and so we have this whole cultural setting
41:27 that is set up to just kind of...
41:30 again, make it an easy and smooth transition there.
41:32 I want to add also that Sasha mentioned
41:36 we have a work here in Hollywood
41:39 and basically doing the same thing
41:42 to make it culturally relevant and acceptable
41:47 but I have a little... just a little story to share with you
41:50 that we not only have Jewish people
41:53 coming to that congregation, okay,
41:56 we have Jamaicans and we have Anglos
41:59 and there are Hispanics and they come for different reasons
42:03 but most of them come because they have a love
42:05 for the Jewish Messiah
42:07 and they also have a love for the Jewish people
42:09 but here is the interesting thing,
42:11 one of the Jamaican brothers that comes to that congregation
42:15 has been coming for years...
42:16 has learned a lot of the language...
42:19 has learned the songs...
42:20 the melodies and things like that
42:22 and he worked in a hospital
42:24 and he tells the story that he was sitting at his desk
42:28 and he was doing whatever he did in his job, typing...
42:31 and he was singing without even thinking about it,
42:34 one of the songs...
42:35 traditional songs that are sung in that congregation...
42:38 well, he didn't know it that one of the surgeons
42:41 had come to his office... was standing behind him
42:43 and happened to be an Orthodox Jew...
42:45 standing behind him...
42:46 and tapped him on the shoulder and asked,
42:49 "How in the world does a Jamaican know this song?"
42:54 "How do you even know this?"
42:56 And he did exactly the thing
42:58 that we talked about all the time...
42:59 that when God gives you the opportunity and the door opens
43:03 to not be afraid...
43:05 and he shared about the congregation...
43:07 about what he believed
43:08 about the Jewish Messiah and all of that,
43:10 now, did this surgeon say, "Oh, I accept... "
43:13 no... but the gospel, Jim... C.A...
43:16 all the time tells us that some plant... some water...
43:19 and some reap...
43:21 and I think that whenever we have those opportunities
43:25 in the context, again, that seeds are being planted.
43:28 It doesn't happen because we put fliers on the doors
43:32 or we did Tent Meetings or Campaigns,
43:34 it happens one person at a time but what's important
43:38 is that, we create the environment
43:40 so that as God begins to shape and touch them,
43:43 they do have a place where someone like that brother...
43:47 that Jamaican brother who otherwise would have no context
43:51 to even talk to him,
43:52 to share with him and say, "Hey, if you ever want to come,
43:55 I'd love for you to come... see what we do at the congregation"
43:58 and he could know that he would walk in...
44:01 this surgeon... this Orthodox Jewish surgeon...
44:04 could walk into a place
44:05 where there would be nothing offensive
44:08 where everything would feel familiar
44:10 and he would be open...
44:11 maybe the Holy Spirit will be able to touch his heart...
44:14 He would know the songs for sure.
44:18 Yeah... all right.
44:19 You know, C.A., you mentioned to Jeff
44:24 that he had two churches...
44:26 part of our reaching out in differences...
44:30 generally speaking, we don't refer to our Jewish work...
44:35 our Jewish Adventist congregations...
44:38 to be sensitive, like we're talking about,
44:41 we use the word "congregation"
44:43 which is acceptable to Christians and to Jews,
44:47 also, there's another reason if we use "synagogue" or "church"
44:53 both of those come with a... with baggage...
44:58 good and bad... depending on the person's perspective.
45:03 A "congregation" is more neutral there's not a set pattern
45:11 like a "church" or a "synagogue. "
45:15 Now, it's not wrong to use those terms
45:19 but I think... to make it most acceptable across the border
45:25 if we use the term "congregation"
45:28 which is accepted on both sides, it's better...
45:31 but, let me share this... talking about ways of reaching.
45:36 I think there are three different avenues
45:39 that we are trying in North American Division
45:43 in various places
45:44 one... are the Jewish-Adventist congregations
45:49 that we spoke of and where they can come
45:51 and be friendly
45:53 and be... feel totally accepted
45:57 in their culture, this is... they feel at home,
46:02 secondly, we need Jewish-friendly churches...
46:07 churches where a Jewish person can go
46:11 and while they wouldn't feel the same as our congregations,
46:17 they at least don't feel offended...
46:20 they feel accepted and loved.
46:22 I think, we need, Ralph...
46:24 I want... before we get away from that point,
46:25 for all of you to address
46:28 what are the kinds of things that we're doing
46:30 in Christian churches that make us unfriendly...
46:33 and I'm trying to beg the point here
46:34 and I want to go back to this because, last night,
46:37 Alex preached a very stirring message on unity,
46:40 so, I can see someone saying,
46:42 "Well, okay, I love Jesus, why can't they unite with us?
46:46 Why do we have to do something special for them?
46:49 I mean, if it's going to be unity,
46:50 it's going to be 'unity' on my terms,
46:52 they need to come to me, I love Jesus,
46:54 I'm preaching Jesus,
46:55 Jesus is the unifying factor
46:56 so why do I have to bend and shape and twist what I'm doing,
47:00 just to try to accommodate this other group?"
47:03 And I want to... I want to wrestle with that a little bit
47:05 because, we may be doing some things
47:08 that we know or that we don't know of
47:10 that are just flat offensive
47:11 and we don't even know we're doing them.
47:12 Under "unity... " the...
47:14 "Yeah, if they want to be unified, yeah,
47:16 they can come to our... " that's fine too
47:17 but also, here's another analogy
47:19 let's say you got two kids and one of them says...
47:22 he likes blueberry muffins
47:23 and the other kid says... he wants garlic bread...
47:25 well, the mother wants unity so she makes garlic muffins...
47:29 right... you know, then no one's happy...
47:32 you know, and so... that's...
47:33 everyone can have their context, yes we're united,
47:36 we're one in Messiah, we're one in faith,
47:38 we're one in belief, but we're still ourselves.
47:40 Paul says, "There's neither male nor female,
47:42 he says, there's neither Jew nor Gentile... "
47:44 he says, "there's neither male nor female"
47:45 does that mean, there's no more men or women?
47:47 You know, it's this... the barrier...
47:50 but we're still who we are, we still got our own cultures,
47:53 men are still men, women are still women,
47:54 and that's okay to have that.
47:57 You know, what really made...
48:00 what really made me start
48:02 doing a special work for the Jews...
48:04 because... before I began to do the Jewish work,
48:09 I was just a regular teacher at the Seminary in Russia...
48:13 I've been there for eight years... whatever...
48:17 but what really made me do the work...
48:20 I came to Kiev... into the church
48:25 where once I was Sabbath School Superintendent...
48:29 things like this...
48:30 and it was right after a large, large evangelistic campaign,
48:34 and they told me,
48:35 "You know, we had five Jewish families baptized
48:38 and they left... can you go visit them?"
48:40 So, I went... and so, I asked them,
48:45 "What's happening?"
48:46 They said, "Oh, thank you for this beautiful message
48:49 that this-and-this evangelist has brought in,
48:53 we learned about our Messiah, Yeshua. "
48:57 "And where are you going now?"
48:58 "Oh, we're going to a Messianic congregation. "
49:01 "Well... " I said,
49:03 "Why don't you go to the Adventist Church?"
49:07 And they said, "Look, Messianics believe in Jesus...
49:10 we believe in Jesus,
49:12 then... then they believe in Sabbath...
49:19 Adventists believe in Sabbath... and we believe in Sabbath,
49:22 so we go Messianic... "
49:24 so I said, "Wait a second...
49:25 but what about the state of the dead?"
49:28 "What about the sanctuary?"
49:29 And they are two months' baptized
49:31 and they look me... "What are you talking about?
49:33 Think about this, we love these people... Adventist Church
49:38 but they sing songs and you pray
49:40 and Messianic provides... sings songs in our language
49:45 what's the problem?"
49:47 And I said, "Wait a second,
49:49 we are bringing this all the time
49:53 that as a Seventh-day Adventist Church
49:56 we are present in 112 different countries
49:59 and have numerous ethnic ministries,
50:04 why can't we have a place where people will sing Hebrew
50:09 that Jews will feel a real... a part of?"
50:12 And so, next summer I was in Israel
50:15 and I had to convince a group of Russian repatriates
50:20 who are Adventists in that Seventh-day Adventist church
50:26 in Tel Aviv... to stop singing old Russian Adventist hymnal
50:32 and since they went through the school of Hebrew
50:35 and know how to speak Hebrew,
50:38 sing from the traditional songs of David... popular in Israel,
50:42 we began to do it...
50:44 there was a gentleman... he came to me with tears in his eyes,
50:48 his name was Shalom David,
50:51 this man said, "Now, I am convinced
50:54 that I am in the right church. "
50:56 This man has become the first ordained Israeli-born
51:02 Seventh-day Adventist Pastor.
51:06 Well, C.A., going back to the second one I mentioned...
51:10 Jewish-friendly churches...
51:12 I was going to bring up some of the things
51:15 that causes a church not to be Jewish friendly...
51:20 not all of these...
51:24 and one reason we have Jewish-Adventist congregations
51:30 is the very symbols that... and I think Jeff had mentioned
51:38 and his... in the previous program
51:40 and even part of this,
51:44 the cross that is so meaningful to the Christians,
51:48 a symbol of Jesus dying for our sins
51:51 and I think also... Alex referred to that...
51:55 here, they were... during the Dark Ages...
51:58 they... they... in the persecution...
52:00 a cross was held before them and said,
52:05 "You convert and you believe in Jesus... "
52:09 and sometimes, they went so far as to eat the pork and so on...
52:14 and be a church member... and no longer a Jew...
52:17 or you die.
52:18 Now, if this was done over 100s of years to your people,
52:25 what would your attitude toward the cross be?
52:29 Not that... and all I'm saying is...
52:33 we need to be sensitive to that
52:37 and much of the time... we highlight that
52:40 and we even sing,
52:43 "The way of the cross leads home"
52:46 or we sing, "There's power in the blood"
52:50 now, both of those are good hymns,
52:52 I'm not trying to say for Christians,
52:55 but when it comes to a Jewish person coming into our church,
53:00 without some context
53:05 this could be very repulsive.
53:07 The word "conversion" and "baptism"
53:09 went along with all of this
53:11 and so, things that we look at as beautiful and wonderful...
53:15 and I'm not saying, we can't do so
53:19 but we need a Jewish-friendly church...
53:21 especially when they realize there are Jews there
53:25 they use other ways to highlight the same thing
53:30 that's so beautiful to us about the Messiah's death
53:34 and why it was that He died on the cross
53:39 and so, we start making it...
53:42 but the biggest thing I found in a Jewish-friendly church
53:47 is honest love and acceptance of Jewish people.
53:54 Even if they say a mis-word... if they know they're loved
53:58 and the intention is well
54:00 and there is no misgivings of them having any anxiety,
54:06 but the one thing that keeps more Jews out,
54:11 than probably anything else
54:13 and makes an unfriendly Jewish church congregation,
54:19 is replacement theology
54:21 of going and saying, "The Jews are replaced by the Church"
54:27 if we look honestly...
54:29 and on Sabbath afternoon
54:32 I'm going to look at some of the history
54:33 and some of the Bible and so forth... to show that,
54:35 basically, at the end of Daniel 9
54:43 and the 70 weeks,
54:45 the Gentiles are added to the Jews
54:50 not "replace" the Jews...
54:53 if we look at the... what it's really saying there,
54:58 and... so if we do not say, like,
55:03 even the text that Jeff mentioned there
55:06 and I'll be showing too in Romans 11,
55:10 hasn't been replaced... all the limbs were not cut off,
55:15 the tree was not cut down, they were put in together
55:20 some of the branches were cut off
55:24 and... but they will be replaced...
55:27 some of them... at the end
55:29 but the Gentile... while we're grafted in...
55:32 so, again, the concept of... "They are God's children...
55:39 that God loves them
55:40 and that they are not rejected and replaced...
55:43 that... if the membership had just that,
55:48 that church becomes so much more Jewish friendly
55:52 and then, the third group... are small groups in homes,
55:56 a lot of Jews will not go to a church
56:02 or even to a Jewish Adventist congregation initially,
56:06 but if they make friends
56:08 and they can come and start that friendship in a home
56:12 and maybe start some Scripture studies...
56:15 gradually work into the place that they have... now...
56:21 it goes along with Ministry of Healing, page 143,
56:25 of how... that Jesus mingled with people,
56:28 He looked at... for their good
56:33 He ministered to their needs... won their confidence...
56:37 and then, He said, "Come follow me... "
56:41 this... in the home setting
56:43 can be done, probably, better than most
56:46 for those people.
56:47 Alex, I see you inching forward on your chair
56:49 so I know you've got something to add
56:50 but we're coming down to the end of our first hour
56:54 so I want you to sort of put a pin in that till the second hour
56:56 then I each... each want you to
56:58 just put a little thought in all this idea
57:02 of "replacement theology"
57:03 I think that's one of the things that has
57:05 retarded the work so much
57:06 and really just hurt a lot of people
57:08 so, sort of turn that over in your mind during our break,
57:11 we're going to come back in just a little bit,
57:13 hopefully you are enjoying this... this discussion...
57:16 or more than just enjoying it
57:18 hopefully you are learning something
57:19 and being sensitized to a work
57:21 that God has called us to do.
57:24 It takes a little more tact...
57:27 a little more touch, a little more Holy Spirit
57:29 than some of the other kinds of work that is being done
57:31 but it is necessary
57:33 and it's part of the growth of the church
57:35 and must happen before Christ comes back
57:37 so, if you want to take a little break,
57:39 get a drink of water... refresh yourself...
57:40 come on back,
57:41 we'll be back in just two minutes
57:43 and continue this very, very fine
57:44 and very, very interesting discussion.