Participants: Jim Gilley (Host), C.A. Murray (Host), Pr. Stephen Bohr
Series Code: NLL
Program Code: NLL14702B
00:18 Hello and welcome back to 3ABN Night Light.
00:21 We thank you for sharing that first hour with us.
00:24 It was an exciting first hour... at least for us it was...
00:26 because we are looking at events that are a fulfillment
00:29 of prophecy and events that are present truth
00:33 for you and for me.
00:35 I'm with Jim Gilley and our special guest - we say guest
00:39 because it's a 3ABN program but we're in his house.
00:43 So we are actually the guests.
00:45 Special guest in his house... in his house -
00:49 is Pastor Stephen Bohr.
00:50 We've been wrestling with the question - the idea -
00:53 is the protest really over?
00:57 What about those things that are happening now
01:00 in our world, in the Protestant world, in the Catholic world?
01:03 We've been taking a look at the history of Protestantism,
01:07 Catholicism, and how these things impact us today.
01:12 When we left the good pastor the question I wanted you to
01:16 sort of address is we know that next year
01:19 the pope is scheduled to address the United States Congress.
01:22 I know, Jim, you have some thoughts about this
01:24 country and its historical role
01:26 and I want to kick that to you, but I want the pastor
01:28 just to talk to us about what you see as significant
01:31 in that event.
01:33 Well not only do we see Protestants and Catholics
01:36 coming closer together but we're also seeing
01:39 the kings of the earth - so to speak - making trips
01:43 to Rome on a regular basis.
01:46 You know, the United States...
01:47 the principles upon which the United States was built
01:50 are radically different than the principles of the
01:53 Roman Catholic church... like day and night.
01:56 And to see the United States establishing diplomatic
01:59 relations with the Vatican, to see Benedict XVI
02:03 giving a short speech at the White House,
02:07 and to see Francis I coming to address a joint session
02:12 of the Congress of the United States
02:14 should cause alarm.
02:16 And also I might mention how the Iron Curtain fell
02:20 in eastern Europe.
02:21 It was through a cooperation of the United States
02:25 with the Vatican. I'd like to read the invitation
02:28 that John Boehner gave the pope to come and address
02:33 Congress. This was March 13, 2014.
02:38 He says: "Your Holiness, it is my honor as Speaker
02:41 and on behalf of the bipartisan leadership of the US House
02:45 of Representatives and the US Senate
02:48 to extend to you as head of state of the Holy See
02:52 an open invitation to appear before and address a joint
02:57 meeting of the two houses of Congress
02:59 assembled in the chamber of the US House of Representatives. "
03:03 Then it says: "With every good wish to Your Holiness
03:08 I am sincerely yours, John Boehner. "
03:11 It's amazing how much the United States
03:15 has become closer and closer to the Roman Catholic papacy.
03:20 It's like people have historical amnesia.
03:23 You know, it's incredible that people are not able to remember
03:27 the history of the Roman Catholic church
03:30 because they think that Roman Catholicism has changed
03:33 when really in its fundamental principles
03:36 it has not changed at all.
03:37 That is true, and when we look at our country
03:41 and we see what's happening in the country, we know that
03:46 eventually it will fulfill
03:49 this prophecy of Revelation the 13th chapter
03:53 verses 11 through 18.
03:57 Now when you look at the history of our country
04:00 we were formed for religious freedom.
04:03 Where were we not receiving religious freedom?
04:06 That you know took place in Europe.
04:10 Took place at a time when the church itself -
04:14 the Catholic church, the Protestant church, the papacy -
04:16 was not allowing religious freedom.
04:19 Then its offspring, the Church of England,
04:22 also was not allowing it.
04:25 The Church of England is not that far removed.
04:28 In fact, in very many ways it's come back.
04:31 And one of its pastors, Tony Blair, has now become
04:37 a part of the organization.
04:39 He's not a priest. I mentioned the other day he was.
04:41 I made a mistake. I didn't know I even said it
04:43 until somebody said... my wife told me, said:
04:46 "He's not a priest; he's married. "
04:49 No he's not, but he's an employee of the Catholic church
04:53 and he's working towards this unity
04:56 situation as I understand.
04:58 And Newt Gingrich and Jeb Bush also converted to Catholicism.
05:02 Yes. Now we have a country
05:07 that was formed for religious freedom.
05:09 We have a nation that I believe with all of my heart
05:14 as I've been reading Washington and all the different leaders
05:19 and how they believed as they prayed
05:21 that God would lead them in the revolution
05:24 that took place and they would put together a country where
05:28 freedom was available to everyone.
05:31 Then from this country the missionaries that have gone out
05:35 around the world unparalleled and unmatched
05:38 by any nation in history.
05:40 God has used this country to spread the gospel.
05:44 To see it now at this particular time
05:48 morally in great decay.
05:50 Then we know there's going to be a type of revival
05:53 take place, but it will not be a true spiritual revival.
05:58 But as we see, it's going to be more of a political joining
06:03 between church and state.
06:05 And then these other things are going to take place
06:09 that the Bible is pretty clear on.
06:11 But it hurts me knowing the good things
06:15 that have happened from this country
06:17 to know that someday - and very soon -
06:21 we will be seeing a different side.
06:23 You know, Jim, the amazing thing is
06:26 referring to that beast that rises from the earth -
06:29 um-hmm - that has two horns like a lamb?
06:32 We believe that Biblically it can be proven that those two
06:35 horns like a lamb represent two kingdoms that exist
06:39 in the United States. The kingdom of the state
06:42 and the kingdom of the church.
06:43 From which we derive two principles
06:45 which is Republicanism and Protestantism.
06:49 Or separation of church and state;
06:51 full civil and religious liberty. Yes.
06:53 We believe that this nation was founded upon those
06:56 two vital principles.
06:59 And the country has functioned very well -
07:03 yeah - with those. I remember Alexis de Tocqueville.
07:06 I don't know whether you've heard of him or not.
07:08 But he did a tour. He was French.
07:11 He did a tour of the United States back in the 19th century
07:14 and he wrote that what really... He was marveling at the
07:17 prosperity of the United States and he said:
07:19 "I have no doubts that the reason why the United States
07:22 is prosperous is because
07:24 of its doctrine of separation of church and state. "
07:27 Um-hmm. Because the church can thrive and the state can thrive.
07:31 You know, when the church joins the state
07:34 the state becomes corrupted and the church becomes
07:37 corrupted as well. So the United States was founded
07:41 upon this idea of total and radical separation of church
07:44 and state. And I see so many things happening
07:46 these days it breaks my heart.
07:48 You know, sometimes actually tears come to my eyes
07:50 when I see what is going to happen because it has...
07:53 It says it has two horns like a lamb -
07:55 which is a symbol of Christ - but it ends up speaking like
07:59 a dragon. But when you have two powers -
08:03 the church and the state and the separation -
08:06 doesn't mean that the state was not a theological group.
08:11 In other words, they were people that actually loved God
08:13 see, but they were the ones to make sure
08:17 that there was separation between religion and politics
08:22 even though you can trust
08:25 real genuine spiritual individuals - Amen -
08:29 to make sure that that is the case.
08:32 So sometimes people now think: "Well, they were all
08:35 secular and this is all religious. "
08:38 No, that's not true.
08:40 We had great leaders who had a real spiritual experience
08:46 with God. You know, if you read Warren Johns' Dateline Sunday
08:50 history of Sunday Blue Laws in the United States
08:52 you know that under that lamb-like façade
08:57 there are always dragon-like tendencies.
09:01 But the Founding Fathers had enough sense and foresight
09:05 to try to do all that they could
09:07 to keep those at bay, you know, and to try to set up
09:12 a country that at least on the surface and in its constitution
09:16 tried to separate the two so that one would not dominate
09:20 or exercise undue power over the other.
09:23 There were some colonies - Massachusetts and others - that
09:26 tried to do that. But the overarching Federal principle
09:30 was to separate the two, and that's how we succeeded.
09:33 And we've done pretty well,
09:35 but the prophecy does have its dark side
09:38 to say that when it begins to speak long term
09:40 that dragon-like power - that's sort of kept at bay -
09:45 will begin to float to the surface.
09:46 And it's interesting as you read the prophecy of Revelation 12
09:51 it's the dragon that tries to slay the Man Child
09:54 which is the symbol of Christ.
09:56 And the dragon, of course, represents Satan
09:59 but the power that he used to try and accomplish his purpose
10:02 was Rome. And then the woman flees to the wilderness
10:06 for 1,260 years, and the dragon is persecuting the woman.
10:10 Yes. Well what power persecuted the church during this period?
10:14 It was Satan working through Rome.
10:16 So when Revelation 13:11 says that this beast that rises from
10:21 the earth has two horns like a lamb but it speaks like
10:23 a dragon it must be Satan working through Rome.
10:27 Because the dragon all the way through in all of the stages
10:30 represents Satan working through Rome.
10:33 Very true... very true.
10:36 The current pope is the first Jesuit pope in history.
10:40 Is that significant? Is that coincidental?
10:43 Is it something that should give us study, pause, alarm?
10:47 How should we look at that, Pastor?
10:48 I think it's very significant.
10:52 The Society of Jesus... or the Jesuits...
10:55 was founded close to 500 years ago
11:00 and this is the first pope in the history of the Roman
11:02 Catholic church who is a Jesuit.
11:05 Because the Roman Catholic church throughout its history
11:08 has feared the Jesuits...
11:09 even the church has feared the Jesuits.
11:12 I'd like to read a statement that we find in a book that
11:16 I recommend to every single person in the world
11:19 for this time, and it's the book The Great Controversy.
11:23 In a little while we might be able to talk a little bit more
11:26 about that. Here Ellen White describes what the Jesuits
11:32 were like. And I'd like to read it because we see a lot of
11:35 similarities with the papacy today.
11:38 It's relatively long, but I'll try and read as quickly as
11:42 possible. She says: "Throughout Christendom
11:45 Protestantism was menaced by formidable foes.
11:49 The first triumphs of the Reformation passed.
11:52 Rome summoned new forces hoping to accomplish
11:57 its destruction... " That is the destruction of Protestantism.
12:00 "At this time, the order of the Jesuits was created:
12:03 the most cruel, unscrupulous and powerful of all of the
12:08 champions of popery. " That is, of the papacy.
12:11 "Cut off from earthly ties and human interests,
12:14 dead to the claims of natural affection,
12:17 reason and conscience wholly silenced,
12:20 they knew no rule, no tie but that of their order
12:24 and no duty but to extend its power.
12:27 The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents
12:30 to meet danger and endure suffering
12:32 undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty
12:36 to uphold the banner of truth
12:37 in the face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake.
12:40 To combat these forces Jesuitism inspired its followers
12:45 with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers
12:50 and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of
12:53 deception. There was no crime too great for them to commit;
12:57 no deception too base for them to practice;
13:01 no disguise too difficult for them to assume.
13:04 Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility
13:07 it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power
13:11 to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism
13:14 and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy. "
13:17 Now here comes the interesting part:
13:19 "When appearing as members of their order
13:21 they wore a garb of sanctity
13:24 visiting prisons and hospitals
13:28 ministering to the sick and the poor... "
13:30 Does that sound familiar?
13:32 "professing to have renounced the world and bearing the sacred
13:36 name of Jesus who went about doing good.
13:39 But under this blameless exterior... "
13:42 The face lift, that is...
13:44 "the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed.
13:47 It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end
13:51 justifies the means. By this code
13:54 lying, theft, perjury, and assassination
13:57 were not only pardonable but commendable
14:01 when they served the interest of the church.
14:04 Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way
14:07 to the offices of state
14:09 climbing up to be the counselors of kings
14:13 and shaping the policy of nations.
14:16 They became servants to act as spies upon their masters.
14:20 They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles
14:23 and schools for the common people.
14:25 And the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an
14:28 observance of popish rites.
14:31 All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship
14:34 was brought to bear to confuse the mind
14:37 and dazzle and captivate the imagination.
14:40 And thus the liberty for which the Fathers had toiled
14:43 and bled was betrayed by the sons.
14:46 The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe
14:50 and wherever they went there followed a revival
14:53 of popery. " That is, of the papacy.
14:56 That is a very, very accurate description
14:59 of what the Jesuits have been like throughout the course of
15:02 history. Is it not true, Pastor? I think I remember reading
15:05 in my history studies that for a time
15:08 the church actually stepped away from supporting them
15:12 and tried to ban them because they were so out of control.
15:15 The papacy... When I say the pope himself had no real control
15:19 over their activities, so they stepped back because they were
15:22 so unscrupulous, so murderous in their intent
15:26 and actions of the church that we can't deal with them,
15:29 we can't exercise any control over them.
15:30 There was not only in one country; it was in many
15:32 countries - um-hmm - where they were banished
15:34 because of the way in which this society worked.
15:38 Yeah. You know, sometimes you
15:40 find some truth in fiction.
15:43 You find a premise in fiction
15:47 that even though it may not be something that you believe
15:52 as far as the details of the fictional story
15:55 yet you see that it's written in a believable manner, see.
16:00 The books by Dan Brown are books that delve into...
16:05 And of course I don't believe the specifics of that.
16:10 However, it shows us
16:12 a type of thing where this type of thing could happen.
16:19 In other words, you see into the organization
16:23 and get a good look at the depth.
16:25 By the way, in that book
16:28 now they talk about the change of the Sabbath
16:31 being one of the things that shows that the Catholic church
16:35 has the power to do what it wants to do.
16:39 You know, we want to be very careful
16:41 that we're able to give warnings about things
16:44 without being bashing of an organization...
16:47 of a group. And this is a fine line
16:51 for us to travel because we have to be true
16:55 to God's Word and tell things as they are.
16:59 We have to be willing to speak the truth
17:03 even if it hurts. But in this day and age particularly
17:09 we have to bend over backwards that we are not being...
17:13 Catholic bashers in other words.
17:15 That we are actually pointing out. And we urge
17:19 the individuals in our audience:
17:21 study this yourself. There are many good books
17:25 out there. Malachi Martin has written a tremendous book.
17:29 Rand written another. Of course Ellen White
17:34 and The Great Controversy I feel is the most balanced
17:37 of all of these books. We urge you to read
17:41 these writings. But at the same time
17:45 we will take our chances on criticism
17:49 in order to point out. When it comes down to
17:52 these things happening I would not want one single one of you
17:56 to say: "Why didn't you tell us?
17:58 You knew this, and you didn't love me enough
18:02 to tell me. " And that's why we do this tonight.
18:05 And Jim I think and C.A. I think it's very important
18:09 that we make it absolutely clear
18:11 that when we're talking about the Roman Catholic papacy
18:15 we're not talking about the individuals - that's right -
18:17 that are in the Roman Catholic church.
18:19 We're not talking about the common believers.
18:21 That's right. We're talking about the system. Amen.
18:23 You know, some people say: "Well how can you criticize
18:25 a system without being critical of those individuals
18:30 who are in the system? "
18:31 And I believe that the best parallel to that is,
18:34 you know, what Jesus had to say about the Jewish nation
18:37 in His day. I mean, He was very critical
18:40 of the condition of the nation
18:43 and yet there were many sincere loving people in that system.
18:46 That's right. There was Joseph of Arimathea.
18:48 Saul of Tarsus would eventually become a Christian.
18:51 Nicodemus. Or you have Nicodemus.
18:53 All the first Christians were Jewish people. Absolutely!
18:57 And so, you know, when they studied these things
19:00 about the history of the Jewish nation
19:02 as it was preached by Stephen in Acts chapter 7
19:06 they said: "Hey this hurts because we belong to this
19:09 system. But this system has gone off track
19:12 so we're going to join the Christian church. " Right.
19:15 And so this is no reflection on individual Roman Catholics.
19:19 I have friends in Latin America who are Roman Catholics.
19:22 They're not even Adventists yet.
19:23 So it's no reflection on them personally, but
19:27 we're discussing these things because we want people to be
19:29 aware so that they can go and read for themselves
19:34 and determine if what we're talking about is true.
19:37 And I believe that when they read history
19:38 they find that it will be. Right.
19:40 Now post-modern thinking and the emerging church movement...
19:45 has that impacted the growing intimacy between
19:50 the Protestants and the Catholics?
19:52 We've been talking a lot about the emerging church.
19:55 And do you think that that has helped to build this
19:58 intimacy between the two groups?
20:01 Yes absolutely. You know, you talk about
20:04 post-modernism and the emerging church.
20:07 They're basically the same thing
20:09 only post-modern thinking is the secular side
20:13 and the emerging church is the religious side.
20:16 Basically the fundamental idea is
20:19 that there is no absolute truth
20:21 and your theology is based on your experience...
20:25 on your personal experience.
20:27 People want to have a spiritual high.
20:28 They want to have a direct line of communication with God.
20:31 They want to depend on signs and wonders.
20:34 In other words, they want their experience to be subjective.
20:39 And they don't allow the Bible as something outside of them -
20:42 external to them - to test their experience
20:46 to see whether the experience is genuine or not.
20:49 Because we cannot test ourselves because the heart of man
20:53 is desperately wicked and only God can know it.
20:55 And He knows it through His Holy Word.
20:58 So we always need an external test.
21:00 We cannot trust ourselves.
21:02 We cannot trust our subjective experience.
21:04 So post-modern thought and the emerging church
21:08 movement are basically two sides of one coin.
21:11 One is the secular side
21:12 and the other side is the religious side.
21:15 Back in the 1990's on the radio station in New York City
21:18 I had the chance to meet with and dialogue with
21:21 Malachi Martin: Catholic scholar.
21:25 Several long thick books.
21:27 I had just read Decline and Fall of the Roman Church
21:29 that he has just written. And he sort of took the whip
21:32 out of my hand at the beginning of the discussion
21:34 because he said: "If you are here to bring up
21:38 the long and insidious sins of the Catholic church,
21:42 I'm not going to argue with you. "
21:43 He said as a Catholic scholar
21:46 "We can't run away from our record.
21:48 We've got to run on our record
21:50 and our record is not good.
21:51 So if this is going to be a re-hash of those things,
21:54 then I throw my hands up because the church has a
21:58 very... " And he used the term... "dark history. "
22:01 His assertion was that we've got to forget about the past
22:06 and take the church as we find it today.
22:08 My assertion was that is a dangerous thing to do.
22:12 Because if I put my wallet down and you take my wallet,
22:15 then I know "Do not leave my wallet in front of Pastor Bohr
22:19 because he is a wallet taker. "
22:21 By the way... I'm not, I'm not.
22:25 Danny will attest to that... that he's not a wallet taker.
22:29 But unless I have strong evidence that you have reformed
22:32 and converted, then I'm not safe to forget about the past.
22:35 Do you follow me? Yes. And he is saying:
22:37 "Don't worry about the past.
22:38 Let's just go forward with the future. "
22:40 But my statement then and is now:
22:42 "You can't run away from your record. You've got to run
22:45 on your record. " And history says that
22:48 when the church was in the ascendency this is how
22:51 it behaved. When it returns to the ascendency
22:55 prophecy says this is how it will behave.
23:00 And you cannot run away from that.
23:02 Respond to that if you will.
23:05 Well what more can I say than what you have already said?
23:09 You know, it speaks for itself, right?
23:14 The new pope... he took the name Francis.
23:18 A significant taking of that name or not?
23:21 I think it's significant because he - according to
23:25 Tony Palmer, anyway, was a very close friend
23:27 of the pope's - he took that name in honor of St. Francis
23:31 of Assisi who was a mystic.
23:34 In other words, he claimed to have this mystical
23:39 relationship with God.
23:40 And basically this is the same idea that
23:43 St. Ignatius Loyola had... the founder of the Jesuit order.
23:46 It's the idea that you can have a direct line of communication
23:50 with God, an experience... and internal experience with
23:52 God... apart from scripture.
23:55 And so I believe that as a Jesuit
23:59 depending upon your own subjective experience
24:03 which comes from Assisi and also from Loyola
24:07 is very significant.
24:09 I was looking through Genesis recently.
24:13 And as I looked at the fall of Adam and Eve
24:17 and looked at the Garden of Eden
24:19 and I looked at Satan's methods there
24:23 has he changed his methods of operation
24:27 since the Garden of Eden
24:29 and his original success with Adam and Eve?
24:32 Well, if it worked at the beginning in a perfect world
24:34 why wouldn't it work today? Yeah.
24:36 You know, basically the devil used five methods
24:40 to lead Adam and Eve into sin.
24:42 The first method was to perform a counterfeit miracle.
24:46 He gave the snake the appearance of being able to speak.
24:50 That would be a miracle in itself. Yes.
24:52 Secondly he misquoted scripture.
24:55 He said: "Has God said that you can't eat from ANY tree
24:58 of the garden? " That's not what God had said.
24:59 And he got Eve to over- state what God had said.
25:02 She said: "God told us not even to touch it. "
25:04 Well, that's not what God had said.
25:05 He said: "Don't eat it. "
25:06 Third, he led Eve to follow and... you know, we would need
25:10 more time to go into the details... but he led Eve
25:13 to follow her reasoning powers
25:15 rather than doing what God said.
25:18 In the fourth place, he led Eve to follow the testimony of her
25:21 senses. Because she saw that the fruit looked good.
25:24 She was hearing that it was going to make her wise.
25:27 You know, it looked like it would taste good.
25:31 She took it... there her touch is involved.
25:35 So the devil is trying to lead her to follow
25:38 the testimony of her senses instead of God's word.
25:41 And then finally the devil used Eve to tempt Adam.
25:46 And the devil uses other people to lead us into sin as well.
25:49 So those are the five methods that the devil used at the
25:52 beginning. And they worked very well there, so why
25:56 wouldn't he use them at the end of time?
25:57 Is the devil going to use miracles at the end of time?
26:00 You'd better believe it.
26:01 Is the devil going to have people mis-quote scripture
26:04 and take it out of context? Absolutely.
26:06 Is he going to get people to follow their intuitions
26:11 and their reasoning powers? Absolutely.
26:14 Is he going to lead people to follow the testimony
26:16 of their senses? And is he going to use people
26:20 to tempt other people? Yes.
26:21 Same methods that he used at the beginning
26:23 he's going to use at the end.
26:31 The fact that there is no... what's the term I could use?
26:37 objective truth, that what I feel, what I sense,
26:42 what I see is truth for me and that's truth enough...
26:45 Is the idea of objective truth important in these last days?
26:51 It's a matter of life and death. Um-hmm.
26:54 Let me give you an example.
26:56 Is it really important what we believe?
26:59 The Bible says that Satan is going to
27:03 counterfeit the second coming of Christ
27:05 before Jesus comes. Um-hmm.
27:07 So let me ask you: is it important to understand
27:10 how the Bible portrays the second coming of Christ?
27:12 Is it important to know how Jesus is going to come?
27:15 Yes. Of course it is! Um-hmm.
27:16 Is it important to know what Jesus teaches?
27:19 Yeah, because the false Christ is going to come
27:22 and he's going to teach some of the beautiful things
27:24 that Christ taught - um-hmm - but he's going to put in some
27:27 things that Jesus did not teach
27:29 and are contrary to what Jesus taught. Um-hmm.
27:32 Is it important to know what Jesus taught
27:35 objectively from scripture and how Jesus will come?
27:38 Absolutely! If you don't know,
27:42 you will be deceived by the false Christ. Yes.
27:45 So the objective description of the teachings of Christ
27:48 and the manner of His coming
27:50 will protect you from being deceived. Um-hmm.
27:52 So that's just one example. Another example is
27:54 the Bible says that the dead don't know anything.
27:57 "The living know that they will die but the dead know nothing. "
28:00 You know, most of the Christian churches today have left their
28:03 doors wide open to spiritualism
28:05 because they teach that when a person dies
28:07 their soul survives the body. So what would keep the soul
28:11 from coming back and speaking with human beings?
28:13 You know, and if they depend on what these "supposed"
28:17 dead people are saying to them - which are not really dead
28:19 people, they're the spirits of demons -
28:21 if they depend on that instead of depending on the Word of God
28:24 which says clearly that "the dead know nothing, "
28:26 they're going to be immediately deceived.
28:28 So is it important for you to know objectively
28:31 what happens when a person dies?
28:33 You'd better believe it. It's a matter of life and death.
28:36 Um-hmm, um-hmm. What other teachings?
28:39 I think this is extremely important.
28:41 What other teachings are we seeing that Satan has
28:45 counterfeited or changed
28:46 that are going to be leading people astray?
28:50 Well I believe that one of the things that he's going to teach
28:53 in this counterfeit second coming is tell people that
28:55 the day of worship has been changed from Saturday to Sunday.
28:59 And you know, if people are keeping Sunday
29:01 that's pretty comforting to have "supposed" Christ...
29:04 In II Thessalonians 2 it says that he will appear
29:08 and look just like Christ
29:11 with a voice, you know, soft and subdued voice
29:14 that Christ had while He was on earth.
29:15 And so it's going to be an almost overmastering delusion.
29:21 And the only way that we can protect ourselves is
29:24 to have our feet firmly grounded upon the Word of God
29:27 and not our own personal experience.
29:29 And if we base ourselves on our own personal experience -
29:33 the heart of man is wicked above all things,
29:36 we rationalize, we try to justify things -
29:38 we will be deceived.
29:40 That's the reason why the devil has established
29:43 post-modernism, the emerging church
29:45 and eliminated the need for the Bible to be the standard
29:51 of faith and practice. That is not negotiable
29:55 and that's the reason why Protestants are coming close
29:57 to the Catholic church - yes -
29:58 is because doctrine means nothing to them any more
30:00 because many of them don't even know what they believe.
30:03 Very true... very true.
30:04 And I think Satan is setting the world up
30:08 for an overarching master deception
30:10 by a number of smaller... You've got a guy in Florida
30:12 says "I'm Jesus. " So people get on the plane
30:15 or get on the busses and run down there
30:17 because they don't know he cannot be Jesus
30:19 because the Bible says "If he's in Florida,
30:21 don't go out to meet him 'cause he's not in Florida. "
30:24 You know, no one will have to tell you.
30:25 Because you don't know the Word, so you're burning up
30:28 frequent flyer miles and buying tickets.
30:29 And you should save your money 'cause that's not Jesus.
30:32 So these little... You know, a little here, a little there.
30:35 A little here, a little there, a little there.
30:37 And we buy into that, and every one of these guys
30:41 is getting a following. For those of us who know the Word
30:44 it seems so strange and ridiculous that some of us
30:48 actually think that that is Christ.
30:49 But if you don't know the Word, you leave yourself open
30:52 for anything if you don't know what you believe.
30:54 And so many simply don't know what they believe.
30:56 A little over a year ago Camille and I were in New York City
31:01 staying in a hotel before we left for Israel the next day
31:05 and saw this long line of people lined up.
31:10 And I went up to find out what is this line about.
31:15 And there was this picture of an individual that was inside
31:21 and all the different things that were said about that
31:25 individual. Now it didn't say that he said that he was Christ.
31:29 But everything that was said next to his picture
31:34 was... were things like: "He makes me feel so complete
31:39 just to be in his presence. " Things of this nature
31:42 that you realize that this was a Messianic-type
31:45 individual that hundreds and hundreds of people
31:50 were lined up. I was amazed.
31:55 My wife... I hope she'll forgive me... but almost
31:59 everybody in the line was a woman.
32:01 And not that... There were a few men.
32:05 I wanted to go say: "Hey, did your wife drag you in here? "
32:09 Because they did not... None of those guys looked
32:11 like they wanted to be there.
32:13 And this fellow: very handsome and long, flowing hair
32:17 like you would think Jesus would have.
32:19 Dressed in very much a robe-type thing... situation.
32:25 Obviously a counterfeit Christ though he may not have
32:29 said that, that is exactly what the impression was.
32:33 Was he taking donations? Oh I'm sure he was.
32:36 I'm sure he was.
32:37 But the deceptions will be strong.
32:41 And it really comes back to if you now are committed to truth,
32:46 if you now will follow a "Thus saith the Lord, "
32:51 you will not be deceived.
32:55 When I was a young kid I was seven years old
32:58 my 18-year-old sister was killed in an automobile accident,
33:02 and an impact on my life that will forever be there.
33:08 I remember that my father's sisters
33:13 were evidently involved in some kind of spiritualism.
33:18 I didn't know what it was; I loved my aunts.
33:22 I knew they were not members of our church
33:25 and they were as far as I knew not members of any church.
33:29 They came to my father who was their only brother
33:32 and they said: "We are talking to Mary;
33:36 we are seeing her. " My sister had been dead a few days
33:40 and they claimed that they had been talking with her.
33:46 My dad was not grounded in scripture.
33:49 He loved his sisters; he loved his mother.
33:51 When they came and said "We have talked to her
33:53 and she wants to talk to you. "
33:55 His only daughter... and you know how fathers and daughters.
34:00 And my father loved his daughter... we all did.
34:03 She was like a second mom to me.
34:05 She was twelve years older.
34:07 So my mother... They came to her and they said...
34:12 They told her: "We are talking to Mary. "
34:16 And my mother said: "No, you're not.
34:20 The Bible says that the living know that they shall die
34:24 but the dead know not anything. " Amen.
34:28 Said: "I don't know who you're talking to but I won't be going
34:31 because you're not talking to my daughter. "
34:35 Now I don't know whether my father did or not.
34:39 I don't know. I don't think he did but I don't know.
34:43 But I know my mother stopped that, and we never
34:46 heard any more from the rest of the family about that.
34:50 Because she was standing on Biblical truth.
34:52 If we're standing on God's Word,
34:56 we will not be deceived with these things that are
35:00 going to be coming whether it's a counterfeit second coming,
35:03 whether it's a counterfeit day of worship,
35:06 whether it is a counterfeit belief in what happens when
35:11 a person dies, whatever it is if we're standing on the Word...
35:16 The Bible says that if it were possible
35:18 the very elect would be deceived.
35:21 It's not possible if they're standing on the Word.
35:23 If you're standing on God's Word,
35:26 you will come through all of these deceptions.
35:30 You may not be popular but you will be with Jesus.
35:35 I've always said I became a pastor not to win a popularity
35:38 contest. Well, and most of us are not winning them
35:41 I guarantee you. I don't know if this would be
35:44 a good time maybe to express the free offer that we have
35:47 because it has to do directly with this issue
35:50 of how Jesus faced theological conflict
35:53 with God's Holy Word. Um-hmm; um-hmm.
35:56 Our free offer tonight is a DVD, part of a
35:59 wonderful series given by Pastor Bohr:
36:03 Jesus and Theological Conflict.
36:07 If there is a teaching that is pertinent to today
36:11 I suspect that is one. Jesus and Theological Conflict.
36:15 If you will call 559-264-2300
36:19 that is the number here at Secrets Unsealed.
36:21 I believe there are individuals ready and willing to take your
36:25 request. If you are accustomed to contacting 3ABN
36:28 you may do so also: 618-627-4651
36:35 or freeoffer - one word - freeoffer@3ABN.org
36:41 and we will get that right in the mail to you.
36:45 You know, there's one thing... We're pretty soon going to be
36:49 running out of time, but there's one point that I
36:51 really want us to cover in this conversation
36:55 and that is a very important book that was written
36:58 over 120 years ago.
37:00 It's called The Great Controversy.
37:03 It's a phenomenal book
37:05 and it was written in a time when Protestants in the US
37:09 wanted nothing to do with Roman Catholics.
37:12 It was a totally different environment.
37:14 And yet the writer of this book - Ellen White,
37:18 who we believe had the prophetic gift -
37:21 said some remarkable things
37:23 that as we look at what's happening today
37:26 they're being fulfilled right before our very eyes.
37:29 And so I would like to just - if I could -
37:32 just maybe read a couple of statements
37:35 from this book Great Controversy. By the way,
37:37 as far as I'm concerned The Great Controversy
37:41 is the greatest book outside the Bible
37:43 that has ever been written on Bible prophecy.
37:46 And I've read dozens of books on Bible prophecy.
37:49 But The Great Controversy... If you really want to know
37:52 what has happened in the past,
37:54 what is happening now and what's going to happen
37:56 in the future in a reliable Biblical way,
38:00 there is no book like this book.
38:02 It is a classic book.
38:03 And some of the statements that she makes
38:06 written 120 years ago are like you're reading the newspaper
38:09 today. And if you're talking about historicist interpretation
38:12 following the historical narrative, this book does it
38:16 excellently. Absolutely! Um-hmm.
38:18 Let me just read you two or three statements
38:21 from this book. Remember, this was written
38:22 120+ years ago.
38:25 All right, on page 445
38:28 she says: "When the leading churches of the United States
38:32 uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them
38:36 in common shall influence the state
38:40 to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions
38:44 then Protestant America will have formed an image
38:48 of the Roman hierarchy and the infliction of civil
38:51 penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. "
38:54 So you notice the first step is uniting upon such points
38:58 of doctrine as are held by them in common.
39:01 And that's what we're seeing with Tony Palmer and...
39:03 and with all of these other leaders.
39:07 Joel Osteen, by the way, also went to visit the pope
39:10 and he was profoundly impressed.
39:13 Here's another statement on page 444.
39:17 She says: "The wide diversity of belief in the Protestant
39:20 churches is regarded by many as decisive proof
39:24 that no effort to secure a forced uniformity
39:28 can ever be made.
39:30 But there has been for years in churches of the Protestant
39:35 faith a strong and growing sentiment
39:39 in favor of a union based upon common points
39:43 of doctrine. " And now notice this:
39:46 "To secure such a union the discussion of subjects
39:50 upon which all were not agreed
39:53 however important they might be from a Bible standpoint
39:56 must necessarily be waived. "
40:00 So in other words, let's not discuss our differences.
40:03 "We can sort those out when we get up there"
40:06 as Tony Palmer said. Um-hmm.
40:08 Let's just get together on the basic points of the
40:12 Christian faith that we agree on.
40:14 But there are some doctrines that are extremely important,
40:16 you know, like the Sabbath.
40:19 What happens when a person dies?
40:21 How Jesus is going to come.
40:24 Would those be considered points that are held in common
40:27 by all Christians? I don't think so.
40:29 So she wrote these things, and we're seeing them happen
40:34 before our eyes. Maybe one more.
40:36 Great Controversy 571-572.
40:38 She says... listen carefully to this:
40:41 "As the Protestant churches have been seeking the favor
40:44 of the world, false charity has blinded their eyes. "
40:48 False charity is what we call political correctness today.
40:53 She continues saying: "They do not see but that it is
40:56 right to believe good of all evil
40:58 and as the inevitable result they will finally believe evil
41:02 of all good. Instead of standing in defense of the faith
41:06 once delivered to the saints they are now as it were
41:09 apologizing to Rome for their uncharitable opinion of her
41:14 begging pardon for their bigotry. "
41:17 Amazing! Written over 120 years ago. Um-hmm.
41:20 The Great Controversy: it's a book that, you know,
41:23 if you call it would also be available. Yes.
41:28 Go back, Pastor, and read that last little part again.
41:32 That apologizing for uncharitable attitude.
41:35 I think that's very, very important.
41:36 I've got a question to come out of that.
41:38 She says: "Instead of standing in defense of the faith
41:41 once delivered to the saints
41:42 they are now... " That is, Protestants...
41:45 as it were apologizing to Rome
41:48 for their uncharitable opinion of her
41:51 begging pardon for their bigotry. " Hmm.
41:54 Um-hmm. So you're apologizing because
41:57 you stood for the Bible.
42:00 The reason the uncharitable opinion arose
42:03 is because it was averse to what the Bible said.
42:08 How can you? Why should you apologize for the Bible?
42:13 We didn't... We weren't writers of the Bible.
42:16 This came from God. We don't need to apologize for God.
42:20 Would you agree? Oh, I agree 100%.
42:23 You know, Protestantism stands or falls
42:28 on Sola Scriptura. Um-hmm.
42:31 The Bible alone. That doesn't mean that we can't
42:33 use other disciplines to aid us a little bit
42:36 in the study of certain verses of the Bible.
42:39 It's good to know archaeology, ancient cultures,
42:42 and the ancient languages and so on. That's important.
42:45 However, the Bible within itself
42:49 has a message that will lead us to salvation
42:51 even if we can't read the original languages
42:53 or we don't know archaeology, we don't know history.
42:56 A person that is sincere of heart that comes to the Bible
42:59 with an open mind, God through the Holy Spirit will
43:02 reveal His truth so that people can be saved in the kingdom.
43:05 Um-hmm; um-hmm; um-hmm.
43:07 We have been treated to this understanding:
43:10 the last movements will be rapid ones.
43:13 We saw the former Soviet Union fall almost overnight.
43:18 It was so rapid and so shocking.
43:20 You touched on something. We have sort of taken comfort
43:24 dare I say in the fact that none of these guys
43:27 believe the same thing. You've got 33,000 churches:
43:29 everybody's preaching. Just their difference of opinion
43:33 will keep them from uniting.
43:35 But we can see that overnight
43:38 walls that were built up for centuries
43:42 can be torn down and things then come together
43:45 that we would never think would come together.
43:49 So it behooves those of us who are students of the Word,
43:51 those of us who believe in God, to make sure that we
43:53 know what we believe, we practice what we preach,
43:56 and that our faith is founded in this Word.
43:58 Would you not agree? Well, the problem is
44:02 these days peoples' religion is driven by experience.
44:05 Um-hmm. Once again, you know, if it makes me feel good,
44:09 if it makes me rich, if it makes sense.
44:13 You know, we have all kinds of internal reasons
44:17 why we believe that our religious experience is true.
44:21 But all of that has to be tested by God's Word.
44:26 Because I'm not inspired... God's Word is inspired.
44:31 And my life needs to be examined and needs to be measured
44:36 by "It is written. "
44:39 That's what made Protestantism what it was
44:42 and that's the reason why Protestantism is coming close
44:44 to Rome: because, you know, Rome as you mentioned at the
44:47 Council of Trent said that the Bible - the written scriptures -
44:51 and tradition are on an equal level. Um-hmm.
44:53 So you know, certain teachings of the Catholic church
44:56 like for example the assumption of Mary...
44:58 that she was assumed to heaven.
45:00 Some say that she was assumed while she was alive;
45:03 some say she died and three days later like Christ
45:05 you know she went to heaven.
45:07 There's not a shred of evidence in scripture of the assumption
45:10 of Mary. There's not a shred of evidence
45:13 that she was born immaculately without original sin.
45:17 The Bible doesn't even mention Mary's birth.
45:19 There's no place in the Bible that says that she was the
45:21 mother of God. There's all sorts...
45:23 There's no place in scripture that says you're supposed to
45:25 bow before an idol. There's no place in scripture
45:28 that says that a mere human being can give people
45:31 an indulgence for sin. And my question is:
45:34 those Protestants who are getting close to Rome
45:37 are they willing to waive all of these things?
45:39 Are Protestants willing to say: "Oh, it's all right to bow
45:41 before an idol? And it's OK to believe that in
45:44 the communion host, you know, the real body of Jesus?
45:47 It doesn't really matter whether His body is there or not. "
45:50 You know, are Protestants willing to go that far
45:52 that they will deny scripture in order to secure unity
45:56 with the Roman Catholic church? I would hope not.
45:59 Yeah. Truth becomes more and more important
46:02 the longer we live... the closer we come to the end of time.
46:06 And it is again so important
46:10 and people are not attending churches because of belief.
46:15 I was talking to someone recently and they said:
46:17 "Oh you need to go to our church. We've got the most
46:20 fabulous choir and the most fabulous music program. "
46:25 And someone else said: "Oh our pastor, he is fantastic.
46:30 He is just unbelievable. "
46:32 Now they don't know what he teaches.
46:34 It doesn't make all that much difference.
46:36 One person said: "Well what does he teach? "
46:38 Said: "I don't know, but let's go back and hear him say it
46:40 again... " you know... "cause he's really good. "
46:44 And then you have people who say: "The folks there
46:48 are just so wonderful. "
46:50 And you know, so many times the church that has truth...
46:53 Now we've got to be careful that we are a receptive place
46:58 because I was talking to someone not long ago
47:01 and they were talking about how cold our churches were.
47:03 Now let me... The church they had gone to.
47:06 Now let me tell you, if I were the devil...
47:08 I think Paul Harvey did something like that.
47:11 And before that my old college president Lawrence Scales
47:16 preached a sermon one day.
47:18 He had to preach something real quick 'cause the speaker
47:21 didn't show up. And he just wrote down
47:22 about ten things on an envelope: "If I were the devil
47:25 this is what I would do. " I don't think Paul Harvey
47:28 necessarily copied him but Paul Harvey did something
47:31 like that. But if I were the devil
47:33 I would go to churches that did not have the truth
47:37 and I'd make them very appealing.
47:39 I'd make the people just the most wonderful, friendly,
47:43 understanding, forgiving, and congenial individuals
47:47 in the world. I would make the pastors
47:50 just really fantastic speakers.
47:53 I would inspire them if I were the devil.
47:56 I would do everything I could to make them really good.
47:59 I would help them raise money.
48:01 Big time money not just barely getting by
48:04 like I think the truth does sometimes.
48:06 But big time money so they could build massive churches
48:11 and great cathedrals
48:13 and really have a beautiful place of worship.
48:17 I would do that if I were the devil.
48:19 And then if I also were the devil
48:22 I would send my legions to where the truth was.
48:26 I'd try to bring some of the ornery people in
48:29 that were actually just mean, you know,
48:33 and get them to run people off.
48:35 And I would try to tongue tie the pastors.
48:37 I would do everything I could to disrupt the service
48:41 and not to have it be an appealing thing
48:44 if I were the devil.
48:46 Now I'm not the devil and I want you to know that.
48:48 But I do think that we have to again
48:54 focus on truth. Not whether it's popular.
48:58 Not whether it's easy. Because see here's the thing,
49:03 though: we have to be careful even in our own group
49:05 that we don't start saying: "Well the Bible may not
49:09 teach this but in society today
49:12 things are a little bit different.
49:14 And even though the Bible may even say
49:17 that we shouldn't do some things
49:19 maybe that's not important, see...
49:22 And so let's set that aside
49:25 and let's just make that a sociological thing.
49:28 Paul didn't really know what he was talking about there.
49:30 Knew what he was talking about on righteousness by faith
49:33 but when it came to other requirements for holding office
49:37 or being ordained or whatever
49:39 he didn't know what he was talking about.
49:41 He did when it came to grace and righteousness.
49:44 He was inspired by God. "
49:46 He's either inspired by God or he's not inspired by God.
49:50 See? So we have to accept scripture.
49:53 If we follow the thing of saying "Well this isn't that important"
49:56 or I heard somebody say the other day
49:59 "Even though scripture seems that it may not be for it
50:05 we can't find that it forbids it. "
50:08 Now that's not necessarily true
50:10 in a statement that people are sometimes making.
50:13 We might say: "Well, the Bible doesn't clearly say
50:16 that you shouldn't smoke marijuana and use cocaine
50:20 and heroin and other...
50:21 but it doesn't say anything against it. "
50:24 See? So there are things that are implied in scripture
50:29 that are not necessarily specifically prohibited.
50:33 If we start giving in these areas,
50:37 we've got to be careful - hmm - because we will also
50:40 begin to give in places like the Sabbath.
50:42 "Well you know, the whole world is...
50:45 Here we are causing a problem by being the ones that are
50:49 going to stick to the truth. Are we legalists? "
50:53 See, we start reasoning this way
50:55 and the next thing you know we're saying: "Well,
50:58 maybe I'll just go along with the crowd here
51:01 and I can privately in my own way
51:04 keep the day God said to keep. "
51:07 And we begin to compromise on truth. Yes.
51:11 And my whole thing here tonight is that we not do that.
51:15 That we go back to the Bible and the Bible only regardless.
51:21 It's good to know what other people...
51:22 and the deceptions that are taking place.
51:25 But it's like the old counterfeit money.
51:27 You don't study the counterfeit to figure what's going out...
51:31 you study the truth. And if you're studying the truth
51:35 and sticking by the truth
51:37 the deceptions will never trip you up.
51:41 Let me... I want to ask that same question from another
51:44 standpoint and give you time to sort of respond
51:46 before we go. Last week my wife and I were in Carbondale
51:48 going out to dinner. And we have a little tiny Mini-Cooper.
51:52 And I was backing into a spot and a fellow was there kind of
51:54 guiding me in. And when I got out of the car
51:56 he said: "You big thing got out of that little tiny car? "
51:59 And then he said: "Ooh, I recognize you:
52:02 you're 3ABN! " He said: "Let me ask you a question. "
52:04 He said: "On some days I eat pork; some days I eat fish.
52:08 Some days I eat chicken but it's all meat.
52:12 Don't you think that God just wants you to have some meat?
52:14 It doesn't matter what kind of meat it was. "
52:16 He said: "You go to church on Saturday.
52:17 Some go to church on Friday, some go to church on Sunday. "
52:19 Basically he's saying: "Is truth that important? "
52:23 That's what Jim was alluding to.
52:24 Is truth a hill to die on? Is that so important that
52:28 it's going to make us stand out from the rest of the world
52:30 and be persecuted. Can't we just yield a little bit
52:33 on this stuff? It's all meat.
52:35 Yeah, it's all meat... but God is truth.
52:39 And in Him there is no lie - all right - so if God tells us
52:43 that we're supposed to do this it doesn't mean that.
52:45 Um-hmm. It means this!
52:47 Yes. And God speaks seriously. You can tell by many
52:50 Biblical examples that when God speaks something
52:52 He is serious about it! Um-hmm. You know, He...
52:55 And coming back to what you were mentioning, Jim.
52:58 Ellen White has a very interesting comment
53:01 where she says that Rome began by enjoining what the Bible
53:05 does not forbid and it ended up enjoining
53:09 or forbidding what the Bible enjoins. Um-hmm.
53:11 And so it's a very dangerous slippery slope to say
53:15 "Well if the Bible doesn't forbid it... we can do it. "
53:18 Because I don't find anywhere in the Bible... It doesn't say
53:21 that you can't go to church on Sunday.
53:23 Right. It doesn't say you can't go to church on Sunday.
53:25 It doesn't say that you can't honor the resurrection of Christ
53:28 on Sunday. It doesn't say so. Doesn't say.
53:30 So it would be a justification for observing Sunday because
53:33 the Bible doesn't directly address it. Right.
53:35 So it's a very dangerous slippery slope - it is -
53:39 when we say that we can do what the Bible does not
53:41 strictly forbid because the Bible many times
53:44 forbids things in principle although it doesn't give the
53:47 specific details. Yeah. Very, very well spoken.
53:51 You know, this tonight has been... It's been painful
53:55 in some ways. And I know that some of our viewers
53:59 are sitting there thinking
54:02 "Wow! " But again, if we know what we know
54:09 and we don't share what we know,
54:13 I don't want to look at God some day and have Him say to me
54:16 "Jim, why didn't you tell them?
54:18 Why didn't you let them know? "
54:20 I don't want them to say to me:
54:22 "Why didn't you tell us these things?
54:25 You knew these things. You had the Bible;
54:27 you had Great Controversy. You knew what was going to happen.
54:31 You saw it starting to take place
54:34 and you didn't warn us. " Umm.
54:36 I pray that we will never be guilty of that.
54:40 Amen; amen. Yeah.
54:41 If we have truth and are not willing to share our truth,
54:44 then what good is our truth? That's right.
54:46 Our truth ought to motivate us, particularly if we look at
54:48 the life of Christ, to share what we have
54:51 because there's a world out there that's in desperate need
54:54 of what we have. They're asking questions.
54:56 Some don't even know that they want to hear truth
55:00 until they hear it, and they will say: "I've been looking
55:02 for that all of my life. "
55:04 Pastor, give us a closing thought if you will.
55:06 Well, my closing thought is that it has been a great
55:10 honor to have both of these gentlemen
55:13 in the Secrets Unsealed studios. Would you agree, audience?
55:16 Amen! Praise the Lord.
55:18 We felt that God has really used both of you.
55:24 We feel that God has used both of you in a powerful way.
55:27 Danny also. Danny might be watching now.
55:30 We love 3ABN. We've had a very close
55:34 working relationship with 3ABN.
55:36 And we appreciate you coming all the way out to Fresno
55:39 to do this program live.
55:42 It really means a lot to us.
55:44 And we've come to love all of you. When we go to
55:46 Camp Meeting over there we eat together, we talk together,
55:49 we have a great time. And so thank you so much
55:52 for coming to be with us and give our greetings to Danny.
55:54 Tell him I understand fully and completely -
55:56 if he's not watching - why he was not able to be here.
55:59 And we look forward to his videotaped message
56:02 at our dedication on Sabbath evening.
56:06 Pastor, Pastor Bohr is much like yourself.
56:09 He is a serious student of the Word but he does like to have
56:12 fun. He believes a Christian should be fun.
56:14 You and he have many similarities.
56:15 You drive a lot alike.
56:17 Having ridden with both of you you both trust the Lord quite
56:19 a bit when you drive.
56:21 I learned from Eileen.
56:26 But men who love the Lord so much should drive like
56:28 you guys drive. You prove that you have faith in God
56:31 and you believe in His ability to protect.
56:35 But Pastor, as we walked through the facility
56:37 God has blessed you so very very much.
56:39 And we salute you and the work that God is doing through
56:42 Secrets Unsealed and we're very very happy to spend this time
56:45 with you. Jim? Well, I do drive somewhere between
56:47 law and grace, and I try to keep a balance.
56:51 But you know, we appreciate you Pastor Bohr.
56:56 We appreciate this ministry.
56:57 Eileen, we appreciate you and all the work you do.
57:02 And we thank you for standing with us at 3ABN
57:06 because we, without your prayers and financial support,
57:11 we would not be able to bring you the programs
57:14 that we are able to bring you.
57:17 And please continue to pray for our ministry.
57:21 God is blessing in ways we never dreamed, but there
57:25 are challenges and there are mountains still to climb.
57:28 And we thank you for climbing with us. God bless you.