Participants:
Series Code: NOW
Program Code: NOW200032S
|
00:15 This is 3ABN Now with John and Rosemary Malkiewycz.
00:22 Hello, and welcome to the program. 00:23 We are really glad you've joined us as usual 00:26 and we're very grateful for those people 00:29 who contact us about 00:31 how much they enjoy the programs 00:32 and the different people that we speak with. 00:34 It's very encouraging. It is. 00:36 It's extremely encouraging 00:38 and we love to get those messages. 00:40 Thank you so much, for what you say to us. 00:43 And about the people that we have on this program, 00:47 we are really grateful for your feedback. 00:49 Today, we have a couple of people 00:51 who have been here before, 00:54 Bruce and Maxine Hill, from Crosslands 00:57 Youth and Convention Centre in Sydney. 01:01 They're natives of Invercargill in New Zealand 01:05 and they are back today 01:07 to continue to tell us their story. 01:09 In fact, we're going to do a bit of recap, 01:11 and then we're going to talk about 01:12 what you are doing at Crosslands. 01:14 Great. Yeah. 01:15 It's a beautiful place in that gully. 01:18 You have to go down that gap. Isn't it, the road? 01:21 Yeah, the Berowra Valley. 01:22 Yeah, it's very, very beautiful. 01:23 And Berowra National Park. 01:25 And so we're gonna talk about that too but, John? 01:29 Bruce has a text that he's chosen 01:31 and it's found in Isaiah 41:10 and it reads like this, 01:36 "Fear thou not, for I am with thee, 01:38 be not dismayed, for I am thy God. 01:42 I will strengthen thee, yea, I will help thee, yea, 01:45 I will uphold thee 01:47 with the right hand of my righteousness." 01:50 That's a really encouraging text in the Bible 01:54 and I know that's something meaningful to you, Bruce. 01:59 So just tells us a little bit of how you hang on to that. 02:04 Well, it's pretty self-explanatory 02:06 that text, doesn't it? 02:07 It says it all, it sums it up pretty well and, 02:11 you know, what we've been through 02:13 and I guess, what we're gonna go through 02:15 as that text gives you encouragement. 02:18 Doesn't that? Yeah. 02:20 That's right. "Fear not." 02:21 There's a lot of people in the world that are fearing 02:23 what's happening all around them 02:25 and sometimes when we only think of the area 02:29 that where we are working 02:30 and the fears associated with it, 02:33 we really don't comprehend, but one thing is certain. 02:35 No matter whether it's where you work 02:37 or what's happening around you in the world, 02:39 we don't have to fear because God is in control 02:42 and that's a very encouraging thought. 02:45 "Fear thou not, for I am with thee." 02:48 Now Maxine has a verse. 02:50 I said, what is the verse you chose for the program? 02:52 She said, Jeremiah 29:11, it's my verse. 02:57 So I'm gonna read Maxine's verse. 02:59 Jeremiah 29:11 and it says 03:04 and it's very well-known, 03:05 "For I know the thoughts that 03:07 I think toward you, saith the Lord, 03:10 thoughts of peace, and not of evil, 03:13 to give you an expected end." 03:16 It's a beautiful verse. Why is that your verse? 03:20 That is my verse because 03:26 there have been times 03:27 where it's been quite a struggle. 03:29 I feel like it's God's reminder to me 03:33 that He has plans for my future. 03:37 Whenever I have doubt, I pull it out. 03:40 When I first went to Crosslands, 03:41 I had it in my back pocket. 03:43 I don't know how it got there, 03:46 but in my darkest moments, 03:50 I would pull it out and read it daily, 03:54 and then it wore out, and then in the mail, 03:59 a young lady who wrote for my husband, 04:02 sent me the same text on a card 04:06 and I put it back in my pocket where it did its work again. 04:10 And she didn't know that 04:11 you had been using that verse before, did she? 04:14 No. She didn't know. 04:15 And it was the third time you got that verse? 04:17 It was the third time I got it. 04:18 A client that we were leaving and she wanted to thank Bruce 04:22 and I for making these stays enjoyable 04:26 and just for the work that we did at Crosslands. 04:30 They were a group that 04:32 weren't a church associated group. 04:37 They bought me a plaque and when I opened it, 04:42 I was like just shocked 04:47 and so I was able 04:49 to tell her the story and say that, you know, 04:53 God has a sense of humor. 04:56 So now that plaque is above my door, in my office. 05:00 So I look directly at it. 05:02 It's a constant reminder that 05:06 when I'm doubtful and wonder 05:10 why I'm still doing what I'm doing, 05:15 that God has plans for me. 05:18 Plans of good and not of evil. 05:20 Exactly. 05:21 I like the thought, Maxine, of an expected end. 05:24 Most people, some viewers, may not really understand, 05:27 but when we give our lives to Jesus 05:30 and we do all we can to fulfill what He's called us to do, 05:34 there's an expected end. 05:35 And it's not here on this earth per se as it is now. 05:39 It's eternal life to be forever with God. 05:42 That's why I believe, a lot of us do 05:44 what we do 05:45 because God has revealed to us that 05:47 this world is not your final home, 05:49 there's another one. 05:50 That's the expected end, if we are faithful to Jesus, 05:52 fits in with your text too, Bruce. 05:55 Now I wanna go to you, Bruce, 05:57 because you're gonna tell us, 06:00 we're gonna do a bit of a recap 06:01 on how you got here to Australia from Invercargill 06:07 and the very, for those who don't know, 06:09 the very south of the South Island 06:12 of New Zealand is... 06:14 You can't go much further south 06:15 without getting to the Antarctica. 06:17 That's right. Well, you could slip off. 06:18 There's a lot of ice down there, isn't there? 06:21 So start us off why you were actually 06:26 even wanting to leave Invercargill 06:28 where you'd always lived. 06:29 Okay, I guess, that the real recap the viewers 06:33 will probably have to go back and watch the other program. 06:36 That's right. 06:38 But lead up to that, we got, 06:41 we're in business for 26 years and of course 06:45 the global financial crisis hit. 06:50 And made it very difficult and at the very same time, 06:53 there was some changes in our local church 06:58 which also made life very difficult. 07:01 And I just wanted to change life, 07:05 really, just take a different step sideways, 07:09 and so we tried selling our house 07:13 and business quite a number of times, didn't work. 07:18 In fact, we had a number of buyers for our business, 07:24 they would take all the books away 07:25 to the accountant and they'd come back and say, 07:27 "Well, it looks good," you know, 07:30 but for the most bizarre reasons, 07:32 they would just walk away. 07:35 We couldn't figure that out. 07:37 Everything added up, 07:39 but just for the weirdest reasons, 07:43 and in hindsight now, we know that God's time 07:48 wasn't then for us. 07:51 That's frustrating though, isn't it? 07:53 Absolutely, at the time, you just, 07:54 you can't figure it out 'cause none of it makes sense. 07:57 How did you feel, Maxine, 07:59 that people would just come and they'd just walk away? 08:02 I thought we were living in limbo for years, 08:05 you know, it's like, 08:07 it actually stops you from moving forward 08:08 even in your current circumstances. 08:10 And you can't step back, 08:12 you can't stay where you are, you can't go forward. 08:14 You're sort of just... Just waiting. 08:16 It's like being in an airplane 08:18 in a holding pattern going around, 08:20 around and around and you're running out of fuel. 08:21 Absolutely. 08:23 Yeah. Yeah. 08:24 There is a story, part of that process, 08:28 we signed our house up. 08:32 Who was a... 08:35 Mary Trust came to Invercargill 08:38 and they bought a few properties. 08:39 They wanted some nice properties 08:41 and ours was one of those they signed up for. 08:45 They were cash buyers, signed all the documents, 08:49 and the real estate agent come to do 08:52 the finalization of the process 08:55 and the buyers, 08:58 he couldn't contact them, couldn't find them. 09:02 So it was such a big deal for him anyway that 09:06 he actually flew to Palmerston North 09:08 where this trust was placed. 09:12 And that's in the North Island? Yes. 09:14 So he flew there, but he couldn't find them. 09:19 They actually disappeared. 09:23 Really? It was totally bizarre. 09:26 And they'd bought up other properties as well 09:28 and they didn't go through with anything? 09:29 Nothing. Wow. 09:32 It was weird, but anyway that's just another situation 09:36 that we had that it absolutely 09:40 wasn't God's timing. 09:43 So yeah, that was pretty weird, 09:45 and we had that time and time again. 09:49 There was the time when we wanted to sell, 09:52 at least buy a building and the same sort of thing 09:57 happened with that, 09:58 which I'll tell you a little bit 10:00 more about as we get into the story some more. 10:04 Okay, so one day you decided to pray and... 10:09 Well, that's what I was gonna say. 10:11 What do you do when you're not, things are happening? 10:14 Yeah, well, when things weren't happening, 10:19 I thought, "Well, I'll put God to the test." 10:22 Because, you know, 10:24 there's this story in the Bible where, 10:26 you know, they put the fleece out 10:29 and it was dry in the morning 10:31 and I thought I would try that trick. 10:36 Did you get a fleece? 10:38 There's a lot of sheep in New Zealand. 10:39 Yeah. No, I didn't try a fleece. 10:42 What I did was, as I mentioned before, 10:44 this was the time of, you know, financial crisis. 10:50 Normally, we would have, in good times, 10:53 sort of about 20 jobs a day. 10:55 So what I thought I would do is I prayed in the morning 11:00 as it was when I normally have it. 11:03 I had a time set up on my computer. 11:05 A reminder would pop up 9 o' clock every morning. 11:08 I would shut the door to my office 11:10 and I would pray specifically for my business. 11:14 This morning I thought I would pray 11:17 and ask for a sign from God and I said to God, I said, 11:22 "Today, give me 10 jobs, God," 11:25 and as I said, this was at a time 11:29 when things were tough and on a good day, 11:31 it might be three jobs at that time. 11:33 So I thought, 11:35 "Nothing is impossible for You, God. 11:36 Give me 10 jobs today 11:38 if You want us to stay here in Invercargill, 11:41 but if You want us to leave, give me no jobs, zero." 11:45 So that was my test. 11:47 I went and told my staff. 11:49 I told them what I'd ask God that day 11:52 and they were all pretty keen to find out 11:54 what happened at the end of the day. 11:56 So come 5 o' clock, I went and asked Brodie, 12:01 the girl that was looking after the shop. 12:04 I said, "How many jobs did we get today, Brodie?" 12:07 And she said, "Seven." 12:09 I said, "Oh, well, that's interesting." 12:11 So I rang the other shop and asked Corey, 12:13 I said, "How many jobs did you get today, Corey?" 12:16 "Three." 12:18 And so I thought, "Well, that's pretty clear, 12:21 10 jobs." 12:23 So be a minute later phone rung 12:27 and Corey was on the phone and he said, 12:32 when I hung up he said, "I found another job." 12:35 And he said, "I thought about not telling you because, 12:39 you know, I knew what was happening," 12:41 but he said, "I knew I was dealing 12:43 with someone way bigger than me. 12:45 So I thought I better tell the truth." 12:48 So he said, "I found one more job." 12:50 And he said... 12:51 So I said to God, I said, "You've given me 11. 12:55 So what's that about? I asked for 10." 12:57 And I was speaking to someone later 12:59 and they said, "You clown!" 13:00 He said, "God gave you one for tithe." 13:05 I was gonna say, "You're complaining?" 13:07 Yeah, so and that brings me to tithe now, 13:13 you know, if you read your Bible 13:15 and you read Malachi 3:8-18 13:19 it tells us about tithe... 13:23 That's returning to the Lord 13:24 what He has given to you and you are giving back. 13:28 Absolutely. 13:29 Now I'm probably a little blunt when I say this, 13:32 but if you don't pay tithe, then and the Bible says, 13:36 you shouldn't call people a fool, 13:37 but I think if you don't pay for tithe, 13:40 you're a fool 'cause when tithe... 13:44 This is the only place in the Bible 13:45 where God says, "Test Me." 13:49 And if you don't test Him on this one 13:52 then it's just incredible 13:54 what God does when you pay a tithe. 13:56 It's a step in faith. 13:58 It's a step in trusting God, isn't it? 14:00 'Cause sometimes if you don't have a lot, 14:03 paying tithe can just seem like, 14:06 "This is gonna actually break me." 14:08 Yeah. 14:09 And yet when you do it, you see that, 14:14 "Hey, hang on, I can survive without it." 14:16 You know, history reveals that 14:18 Jewish people where tithe paying people 14:20 and you go anywhere, 14:22 you always Jews always got money 14:24 and have everything, have been blessed of God, 14:27 that's what actually it says in Malachi. 14:30 "God will bless you." 14:32 So, you know, you are foolish 14:34 if you don't realize that, you know, 14:37 God invests in you, you return, what happens? 14:41 There's nothing more than God wants to do, is bless you. 14:44 So give generously and the Lord will bless you. 14:48 And the crazy thing about that is, 14:50 it should be the first thing you pay out of your pay packet. 14:55 It should be the first thing comes out, 14:56 not the last and, 14:58 you know, the silly thing is, 15:00 if you wanted to crunch the numbers, 15:03 sometimes they just don't work. 15:05 You would get to the end of week and you think, 15:07 "How did I ever afford to do that?" 15:10 And it just, they don't add up, but God somehow makes it work. 15:15 It's just bizarre. 15:17 You know, one of the most beautiful stories 15:18 I hear, quite often, 15:22 as those in business who have paid tithe, 15:27 they've stepped out and paid tithe 15:29 and saying God blessed their businesses, 15:32 and then they have decided, 15:34 well, I'll pay a second tithe 15:38 and I'll put it towards something, 15:40 some ministry or something 15:43 and God blesses them so much, 15:45 they pay a third tithe and some of them 15:47 are paying 50 percent of their income in tithe 15:50 because just God has continued to bless 15:52 their ministries, their businesses 15:54 as they've continued to pay more tithe, 15:57 more, above 10 percent and God is giving them 16:01 even bigger blessings. 16:02 You can't out-give God. 16:04 That's right. You can't. 16:06 Yeah, those stories to me are just amazing, 16:08 but I've heard many of them. 16:09 So what about 16:11 these international students, Maxine? 16:13 You know, he's in business, 16:15 but you are doing also something, aren't you? 16:17 You're taking in international students? 16:20 Yeah, so I was... 16:23 They were just part of our family, 16:26 so I was mum. 16:28 They came in their teen ages, most of them for one year. 16:34 One of them for four years, 16:36 so she was just like a daughter. 16:40 They eventually go back home and you say goodbye, 16:43 that's your opportunity to be a witness. 16:45 It's really difficult in some scenes 16:50 where, you know, their faith, 16:54 Buddhism, is inherent. 16:56 They don't know why they do it, but they're very loyal 17:01 and faithful to 17:06 the symbolism of Buddhism, 17:09 but if you discuss it them, 17:11 they don't necessarily understand 17:14 why they are doing things. 17:17 So we keep in contact with some of the girls 17:21 that have lived with us still, they come and visit. 17:25 So yeah, it was an opportunity. 17:31 We had one daughter at home for the last few years, 17:35 so it was nice to have other girls in the house, 17:38 just for company. 17:39 Poor Bruce. 17:42 We got a couple of pictures here, have we? 17:44 Oh, we got to hear about the bank building again. 17:46 Yeah. Yeah. 17:48 Well, that was part of the story 17:49 that I just shared really was the bank building 17:53 was the part of the whole process 17:56 we wanted to sell... 17:57 That's it here. Is it, Bruce? Yeah. 17:59 So we wanted to buy the bank 18:02 because once I got that answer from God, 18:04 that was pretty clear 18:06 that we would stay in Invercargill, 18:07 we thought it made sense to own that building 18:10 'cause that's where we had one of our businesses. 18:14 And the upstairs, we were going to turn it 18:16 into an apartment because, again, it made sense 18:20 because we had these students and they love to be in town so, 18:25 and our house was out of town which was a bit of a pain 18:28 'cause we have to drive them back and forwards 18:31 and I was often a taxi driver for that. 18:34 So it made sense to buy that building 18:36 so we made an offer for it 18:40 which was a fair offer, 18:43 it had been on the market for about two years 18:46 and had gone to auction 18:48 and been for sale with no real interest. 18:52 And so we, as I said, made the offer on it 18:55 the owner came back immediately with a straight-out no. 19:01 And that's it, which was pretty blunt. 19:06 So I thought, "Wow, that was bizarre." 19:09 But we found out, well, it sold two weeks later. 19:15 Again, pretty strange 19:16 because it had no interest all that time, 19:19 and then it sold, and then I found out 19:22 from the agent that it sold 19:23 for more than what we had offered. 19:26 Less than we offered. 19:27 So it didn't make sense. 19:31 Again, questioning God, "What's up, God?" 19:35 But it's all about His timing. 19:36 It wasn't our time so... 19:40 Yeah, sometimes I think that our problems come 19:44 because we are out of time with God. 19:47 Usually, when something like that happens, 19:49 what do you do? 19:50 You go about, "Why God?" 19:52 So what did you do, you know? 19:55 Yeah, that's it. 19:57 As I said, I just questioned God 19:59 'cause I couldn't figure it out, 20:01 but he had a plan, but at that time 20:05 we don't know what that was. 20:09 So what did you do? 20:12 What did you two do in that situation? 20:14 Well, the interesting thing was, 20:16 we had our business on the bottom level 20:18 of that building so everything made sense to us. 20:22 So it just put us back into that place where... 20:25 where to now? 20:27 So it was just more waiting, 20:29 you know, we didn't have any other plans. 20:33 And were you allowed to stay there 20:34 when it changed hands? 20:36 Did they want to use the building 20:37 for something else? 20:39 Yeah, we were part of the package, 20:40 but of course that's where we were confused. 20:42 You offer... 20:44 Or the people that bought it 20:45 paid less than what you offered, 20:47 it just didn't make sense. 20:49 So we saw it as, you know, a closed door. 20:54 Yeah. 20:55 So he rejected your offer? 20:57 Yeah, for a lesser offer. And accepted one less. 20:59 Yeah. 21:01 One for more money, for less money, sorry, yes. 21:03 Yeah. 21:05 Ah, how bizarre. 21:06 Yeah. 21:07 So what did you do then, Bruce? 21:12 Look, I was in a situation 21:16 where I just was totally confused 21:22 and so I just, 21:24 one morning I prayed to God and I 21:26 just surrendered everything to Him 21:29 because I said, "I give up. 21:32 I don't know what's going on." 21:33 So I just handed everything back 21:36 to God and I said, 21:37 "I surrender everything to You," 21:39 you know, "Everything that You have blessed us with, 21:42 take it all and I'll do 21:44 whatever You want me to do. 21:45 I will go wherever You want me to go." 21:47 And it was at that point life changed. 21:53 'Cause I think up until that point, 21:54 my wife calls me 21:57 I'm a bit stubborn and arrogant. 22:00 And I think I have been... 22:06 I've been that way with God. 22:08 And I think it wasn't till that I surrendered to Him that 22:12 He thought, "Okay, let's move on now. 22:14 You might have learned your lesson." 22:16 Yeah, He puts us through lessons for our good. 22:19 Yeah. 22:20 To show us what we're like, 22:21 to reveal to us things that we need to let go of 22:24 or things we need to do that 22:25 we haven't been doing. 22:27 So when you did that, 22:30 did you get involved in church things and stuff? 22:34 Yeah, as I said earlier, 22:36 we had some problems at church 22:40 for probably six months, I didn't go to church 22:43 and because I would drive down the drive 22:47 and I got to the end of our drive 22:50 and there was like a T-intersection. 22:52 I could either go right, 22:54 which was into town to go to church 22:56 or go left and that was to the beach. 23:02 If I turned right, 23:04 I would get a knot in my stomach. 23:06 I would just, it was not a nice feeling. 23:09 It was an awful time in my life, 23:13 just so many bad things were happening at church 23:15 and in life in general and so for about six months, 23:21 I chose to go and jump on the kayak 23:24 and I took my Bible with me, just searching for answers. 23:28 And I would paddle up the river, 23:30 and just sit and read my Bible 23:33 and I would go to work on Monday morning, you know. 23:36 It's generally what people do. 23:38 They say, "What did you do on the weekend?" 23:40 And my answer was, "I went to heaven." 23:44 And they go, "What?" 23:48 But no, it was like heaven. 23:49 You would sit there 23:50 and there was fish jumping around you, 23:53 the river was a like a mirror 23:55 and it was just you and God and, 23:58 you know, you read His word 23:59 and He speaks to you through it. 24:03 And so yeah, that's, I spent quite a bit of time 24:07 just searching God's Word for answers 24:09 as to what He wanted with me and my life. 24:15 So yeah, and then I got the opportunity or God, 24:20 I guess, forced an opportunity on me 24:23 to take some Bible study classes 24:27 or Bible-marking classes at church. 24:29 It's well worth exercise to mark your Bible. 24:32 Yeah, so that's something that challenged me a lot 24:36 because the test that you do to find out 24:41 what your spiritual gifts are, 24:43 the very last thing on my spiritual gift list 24:47 is teaching and but I felt impressed that 24:51 God wanted me to do this so I'd forced myself to. 24:55 And so those who don't understand 24:57 what Bible-marking is, it's to mark the Bible, 25:01 doctrines in your Bible so that you could go through 25:05 a whole doctrine with all the key texts to do 25:09 with it so that you could 25:11 then even teach it to someone else. 25:12 That's right. 25:13 And you've got all those different doctrines 25:15 marked in your Bible, 25:16 you can turn from one text to another. 25:17 Yeah. 25:19 And it'd just lead you from one to another 25:20 so you'll have the next text marked beside it. 25:22 You train it together. Yes. 25:24 So it makes it nice and simple 25:27 so I took other people 25:29 that wanted to do that at church through that process 25:34 and it was a really good time where, you know, 25:38 I had, obviously, 25:40 you don't have all church members, 25:42 you can invite other people to do it 25:44 and that way they learn about 25:45 what's the Bible is trying to teach as well. 25:48 And through that process, you know, 25:50 we witnessed some people baptized, 25:52 which was a wonderful thing. 25:55 Yeah, so it was challenging times... 26:01 Challenging times, but fruitful. 26:03 Absolutely. For you and for others. 26:04 Yes. 26:05 I like the way God, you know, is taking you through life. 26:09 It's not a straight road, is it? 26:11 Not by any means. No. 26:13 And it's winding and there are obstacles 26:16 along the way, but you got back to the point 26:18 where you went back to God 26:21 and it was about selling your house, 26:23 wanting for Him to show you what to do. 26:26 So did you put your house back on the market? 26:27 We did. 26:29 We felt impressed because things changed so much. 26:32 We thought, "Okay, well, let's give it another go." 26:36 So we put our house on the market 26:38 and it sold in two weeks twice, believe it or not. 26:43 How long had you had it on the market before? 26:45 Oh, years, off and on. 26:48 And so that's why Maxine's saying, 26:50 "Oh, I don't know with you coming or going 26:53 because it's just on the market for so long." 26:54 Yeah. 26:56 I think men are more apt, Maxine, 26:58 to try things and come back to them, 27:01 where a woman says, "Wake up your mind." 27:03 Right? You want to do is... Well, yeah. 27:04 That's part of it and the other thing 27:06 is that you always have to be prepared, you know, 27:09 I am a notably obsessive-compulsive. 27:13 So, you know, living on the fringe 27:16 of perfection all the time is very stressful. 27:19 In case someone wants to come. That's right. 27:20 And, you know, I worked as well so, 27:23 you know, it was just not okay. 27:26 It's a challenge, isn't it? So you sold it, Bruce. 27:32 Yeah. What did that indicate to you? 27:34 What did that mean for you? 27:35 Well, the other thing is at the same time 27:39 as we have discussed, 27:40 I had my business up for sale as well 27:43 and that didn't go through so many times, 27:47 for the most bizarre reasons, and then all of a sudden 27:50 I get a phone call out of the blue and said, 27:53 "Is your business still for sale?" 27:55 And I said to them, "Yes." 27:58 And so that ended up being a cash deal 28:02 for more than what I was previously asking for. 28:06 So... Talk about being blessed. 28:08 So there's the house and business all sold... 28:10 Was that clear to you now what God wants you to do? 28:13 No, because you don't know where to go. 28:15 No, it isn't. 28:17 So at that time, we were running 28:20 a mission program at the church 28:22 and part of the process, 28:24 the evangelists wanted us to meet at church 28:27 on Sunday mornings 28:29 before the program and pray for specifically 28:31 for the program so we were going to 28:34 that on Sunday mornings. 28:35 And this particular Sunday morning, 28:38 a gentleman by the name of Gabriel, 28:41 which was pretty weird, turned up. 28:45 He had never been there before 28:47 and I chose to pray with him and after praying with him, 28:52 we went out into the church foyer 28:56 and I was talking to him and I said, asked him 28:59 where he was from and he said, "Papua New Guinea." 29:03 And I said, "That's interesting." 29:05 I just seen in, I think it was on Facebook 29:07 or somewhere, I can't remember 29:09 where exactly, but we... 29:12 Pastor John Carter had run a program there 29:15 and they'd baptized 5,000 people. 29:17 And I said to him about that. 29:19 Then he said, "Oh, yeah. 29:20 It's in the church magazine," 29:22 the record and it was on the table in the foyer 29:25 and he picks it up and said, 29:26 "Yeah, it's in here, the article." 29:28 And I thought that's interesting 29:30 so I had never picked up a record 29:33 for like two years. 29:35 It just hadn't interested me. 29:37 And so I took the magazine, took it home 29:40 and read the article, 29:42 I mean, as you do, you flip through the rest of it 29:44 and in the back there was a job advertise 29:46 for a couple for Crosslands Youth 29:48 and Convention Centre in Sydney 29:51 and it had the job details there 29:54 and I thought, "Wow, 29:55 that sounds really interesting." 29:57 I said, "That sounds like me, and Maxine." 30:01 I was gonna ask the question. 30:03 I was gonna ask the question. 30:07 What did you think, Maxine? 30:09 I am a small town girl. 30:11 I don't like change. 30:12 I thought, I would live and die in Invercargill. 30:18 I had never imagined myself anywhere else. 30:21 I had dreams, but they are not something 30:23 that I was really going to pursue. 30:27 They weren't on your bucket list. 30:28 I know... They were just sort of things. 30:30 Yeah, I like my comfort zone. 30:34 I like the way you go back to God, 30:36 Bruce, and you said, "We don't have a home now 30:39 and we don't have a business." 30:40 Well, whether or not this job will come through. 30:42 Well, that's it. 30:44 We applied for the job obviously, 30:47 but we still didn't have it. 30:49 And I said to God, I said, 30:51 "What happens if we don't get this job now? 30:54 We don't have a business, we don't have a house, 30:56 what are we gonna do?" 30:59 But long story short, through some Skype interviews 31:03 and what have you, they invited us to Sydney 31:06 for a face-to-face interview 31:09 and we had the option of staying at Crosslands 31:13 or staying in a hotel. 31:15 I think possibly that might have been 31:17 a test to find out what we were like 31:21 so we chose to stay at Crosslands. 31:23 And a part of the process 31:27 I was asked if I could drive a Bobcat. 31:31 And I had never driven a Bobcat before that point. 31:34 And so the manager at that time, 31:38 John, said, "Jump in and give it a go." 31:41 So I got in. 31:43 And it's got a pin pad to start it and I said, 31:47 "What's the code to start it?" 31:49 And he told me the numbers. 31:51 And I just, my jaw probably dropped open. 31:54 I went, "Wow, really?" 31:56 And I just said to God, I said, "Is this a sign, God?" 32:01 Because the numbers were the same numbers 32:04 as we had for our alarm in Invercargill for our house 32:09 and the same numbers 32:10 for Maxine's credit card pass... 32:12 So you're not gonna forget it, are you? 32:14 So I just thought, "What are the chances of that 32:17 for a start off, you know?" 32:21 So I just, "Is this a sign, God?" 32:23 Yeah. And we got the job. 32:27 But... 32:28 And we have got the photo of the Bobcat. 32:30 Yeah, have you got? Yeah, that's the Bobcat. 32:32 So how do you go with operating it? 32:35 Yeah, I passed obviously. 32:38 It wasn't too difficult. 32:40 It's quite easy to drive a Bobcat. 32:43 And I have done hundreds of hours in it now though, 32:45 so pretty good on it now. 32:47 So now you're used to it. 32:48 That was amazing that the number would be the same. 32:52 Yeah, what are the chances of that? 32:54 It's... 32:56 With all the combinations possible. 32:58 In your previous interview, 32:59 you talked and we saw pictures 33:01 of your home in New Zealand, 33:02 it was very nice so the question you had was, 33:06 "Will we get something like that 33:07 here in Australia?" 33:08 So we got a picture of Crosslands, is that right? 33:11 Yeah. Yes. 33:12 Is that your house over there? 33:13 That's our house looking across the river, our house. 33:16 It's a big river, the Hawkesbury. 33:18 It's the Hawkesbury, isn't it? 33:20 No, it's the Berowra Creek. The Berowra Creek? 33:22 Yeah. That's not a creek. 33:24 That's, yeah, that's not a creek. 33:26 That's a river. 33:27 So you wake up each morning, Maxine, and you look out... 33:31 Across the river. Across the river. 33:33 I wish I could say yes to that, 33:34 but I wake up, I chuck my clothes on 33:37 and I get to work. 33:38 You don't get to see it. 33:40 Wow. You do... 33:41 We do. Yeah. 33:42 Bruce is outside more than I am. 33:44 I'm office, cleaning, whatever. 33:47 Although I have taken up a little bit of gardening 33:49 through COVID so I do get to see it occasionally. 33:53 It's good for the mind 33:54 and good for the soul, gardening. 33:55 It was something that I hated, 33:58 but now I actually appreciate it. 34:02 When I was a child, 34:03 Mum would have us out doing the weeding 34:06 in a huge lawned area, we had a double block. 34:09 And the house is down one side of one block, 34:12 and the rest of it was all like parkland, 34:15 clumps of trees with, 34:16 Mum had little grottoes in between them and things. 34:19 And we'd have to be out there, weeding the buffalo. 34:23 I hated weeding. I love weeding now. 34:26 I love getting out there and getting the weeds out, 34:28 it's very therapeutic. 34:29 Well, Bruce, you came out here and we saw where you are. 34:32 It's very pretty in that. 34:34 Was it hard work? It was. 34:36 Look, for a whole year, I questioned God 34:39 'cause I had no doubt that he sent us here, 34:43 but for a whole year I just said, "God, 34:45 why did you send us here?" 34:47 I said, "This is just so hard work." 34:49 And I didn't feel like we were doing 34:51 anything for God either 34:54 because back in our church in Invercargill, 34:57 as I said, we were doing Bible studies 34:59 and things like that, you felt like you were doing 35:01 something for God, but here basically, 35:05 you had a head down your toilet and cleaning 35:08 and just felt like you were doing nothing for God. 35:13 Yard work. It was just hard work. 35:15 That's a New Zealand expression. 35:17 Usually, you say, you're over the toilet cleaning. 35:20 Yeah. 35:22 So as I said, 35:23 I questioned Him for a whole year 35:24 and it wasn't till summer camp. 35:26 And every year Crosslands runs summer camp for kids, 35:30 for the whole of pretty much, January. 35:34 I felt impressed to go on the Saturday night 35:37 for the juniors, 35:39 just to see what they had been doing 35:40 'cause they show a video of the week's activity 35:43 and all the fun stuff they've been doing. 35:44 So I went up and I was standing 35:46 in the back of the hall and God spoke to me. 35:52 You know, not one of those order of things, 35:55 but in your head. 35:57 And I watched the kids pinning a thing on the wall 36:02 where they were committing their life to Christ. 36:05 And God said to me, He said, 36:07 "Bruce, if you and Maxine 36:09 weren't here facilitating this place, 36:11 that wouldn't happen." 36:14 And it was like the penny dropped. 36:16 I said, "Yeah, okay, I get it, God. 36:19 Yeah, I understand now." 36:22 So that year was changed, life changing for us. 36:28 I then went back to my office and I made something, 36:34 and if we can put that on the screen. 36:36 I put, "Through a series of undeniable miracles 36:42 God sent us here. 36:43 Thank you, God. 36:44 Use us and teach us 36:46 what we need to know to be more like Jesus." 36:49 So I've put that on my wall 36:52 on the office as a reminder. 36:56 So that really inspired you, that's what you're saying, 36:58 to see those kids committing their lives. 37:00 Absolutely. And... 37:03 And I've seen it time and time again now 37:06 just events like that that's a reminder of actually 37:10 why we're there. 37:12 Up until that point, you've seen Crosslands 37:14 as a place where people come and have fun and just, 37:18 you know, playing the kayaks and things. 37:19 And you're working. Yeah. 37:22 And we really wanted to change that 37:25 and make it a place where people come 37:28 not only just have fun but to meet Jesus. 37:32 I remember when we were living in Phuket in Thailand, 37:38 resort place, people go there from all around the world, 37:41 for their holidays and things. 37:44 And we're living there, working in the hospital 37:47 and a number of foreigners, tourists, 37:50 and things would come there as patients. 37:52 And when they found out that 37:54 you actually were working there and you lived there, "Oh, wow! 37:58 It must be fantastic to live in Phuket." 38:01 And I said, "Well, it's just like living 38:03 anywhere else that you work. 38:04 You don't get out to do all those touristy things. 38:07 You're working. You're just living. 38:10 You're getting on with life." 38:11 You must hear that all the time. 38:13 It's not like being a tourist 38:14 and so when you're working somewhere, it's different than 38:19 when you're going there on holiday 38:20 or going for a camp or something, isn't it? 38:22 We'd love to live here. This would be wonderful. 38:25 We got some pictures now of Crosslands, haven't we? 38:27 Yeah. 38:28 Maybe we can have a look at those. 38:30 So this is an aerial shot of... 38:33 Crosslands is basically divided up 38:35 into two sections 38:36 so that's what we call site one, 38:38 so on that, there's... 38:40 It's hard to see, but up in the trees, 38:42 there's Edilong facility that sleeps around 104, 38:46 depending upon the relationship 110 people. 38:51 And then there's a couple of motel units 38:53 in there as well. 38:54 And Kent Lodge sleeps 40 people. 38:57 Swimming pool, hard to see all that, 39:00 but lot of it is hidden in trees here. 39:02 So that's site one and then there's site two 39:04 which is predominantly just a camping site, 39:08 where people pitch their tents. 39:11 And in the trees, 39:12 there's some little cottages as well. 39:16 So that's, Crosslands is 100 acres 39:19 in the middle of the national park, 39:21 which is pretty unique. 39:23 And we're really blessed and Greater Sydney Conference 39:27 to own a property like that. 39:28 Yeah. 39:30 Beside a river in the middle of the national park. 39:33 So these are just 39:34 some of the shots of around Crosslands. 39:37 The accommodation looks very nice. 39:38 It is. 39:40 So what kind of visits do you get 39:41 from what sort of animals that frequent there? 39:44 Look, goannas, snakes, spiders. 39:48 Don't say snakes if you... Kangaroos. 39:50 Scare people, right? 39:51 I really like the look of the accommodation. 39:53 It's very nicely done. 39:55 Very warm, And the camping area, 39:58 it's good. 39:59 Looks very good. 40:01 We've got accommodation that really caters 40:03 to a broad range of people, 40:05 large groups, small groups, families. 40:06 Now that's the place I've been to. 40:09 It was a baptism. Yeah. 40:12 This is where we sat before it. 40:13 Oh, now that's the fun part. 40:16 That's the fun part, yeah. 40:20 We have an inflatable. 40:21 It goes up on the swimming pool. 40:22 Kids really enjoy that. 40:24 It's heaps of fun. 40:26 Looks like it. 40:27 We also do part of, 40:30 what we do here is river cruises, 40:32 so we've got that boat there 40:34 that we not only ferry people across, 40:37 like school kids, because of the road access, 40:40 road to Crosslands is quite tight 40:42 and windy down the hill. 40:45 When we get larger groups that wanna come on a course, 40:47 they are arrive on the other side of the river 40:50 and we ferry them across on that boat. 40:53 As we also do cruises down the river, 40:57 show aboriginal sites and some of, 41:02 and I'll say try and bring into things 41:04 like the flood theory. 41:08 Well, it's not a theory, is it? 41:09 The fact of a flood and stuff like that so. 41:14 That's very good. Yeah. 41:15 It just looks like a very nice place. 41:18 Maxine, what sort of accommodation 41:19 have you got available there? 41:20 Okay. 41:22 So it's mostly dorm style accommodation. 41:25 Edilong Facility like Bruce said, 41:28 it accommodates 104 to 110 41:32 depending on relationship make up. 41:36 Then we have Kent Lodge, 41:38 which is a 40-bed facility 41:40 and a couple of units for families 41:43 and then the cottages out the back. 41:44 So the ones that face the camping area, 41:49 predominantly sleeping only. 41:52 And then, there's a few that facilitate families. 41:55 So there's a bit of a range. 41:58 So we primarily geared out for bigger groups 42:02 but come weekends and... 42:03 School groups. 42:05 Yeah, school groups, church groups 42:07 and then we fill in the gaps 42:08 with families and that sort of things. 42:10 So Bruce has put in a few things 42:13 that are sort of complementary 42:14 that people can use, come away, 42:17 and have a bit of fun with their families. 42:20 That's important, I believe. 42:21 Absolutely, because you know like, 42:23 not everybody has money to spend particularly 42:25 the smaller the group the less the money. 42:28 So it's nice to have just some fun things 42:31 for people to do together. 42:34 So have you built to your maximum capacity? 42:36 Or are you making new plans for buildings or? 42:40 We have had plans 42:42 that have been way out of our budget. 42:45 It was approved to make some additions, 42:49 but sadly COVID has destroyed those things. 42:54 Like many other people in business 42:57 will have experienced. 43:00 So yeah, we've had the handbrake 43:03 put on our spending, COVID's created that. 43:06 So people who are, you know, who have conscious of COVID, 43:10 there's a good place for them to come with the family 43:12 if they are living in the city, isn't it? 43:14 You don't have to get out too far to be 43:16 out in the national park, so we would encourage 43:20 those who you are watching if you're in the Sydney region, 43:24 or even anywhere else in fact, to think about this place 43:27 because I think you'll enjoy it so. 43:29 I like the fact that 43:31 you said you have place for families 43:34 to just come and hang out together for a few days. 43:37 Yeah, absolutely. 43:39 Weekend or through the week. Yeah. 43:41 We also do things in conjunction 43:44 with other departments within the conference, 43:48 Hope Stayz for example, we run that 43:50 with women's ministries every year. 43:54 That reaches disadvantaged women and their families. 43:57 So they pay nothing. 43:59 We put it all together between the two entities. 44:04 So we run a program that enables them 44:08 to come out of their life for a weekend 44:13 or three days and we just pamper them. 44:17 It's not filled with religion or anything. 44:22 It's about being the hands and feet of Jesus 44:25 and so that's what we do. 44:27 We have some women that come 44:29 that are very resistant when they come. 44:32 Some even want to go home 44:34 and then by the end of the three days, 44:37 they are different women. 44:39 They cannot understand 44:42 why other women would give up their time 44:47 just to pamper them for the weekend. 44:49 And we do have a few spiritual things 44:52 that they can attend 44:54 and so some of their children get connected 44:57 with their pathfinder groups. 44:58 So they bring their children in this one? 45:00 They're able to bring their children. 45:01 They're totally catered for, for the weekend. 45:04 And they just have a really nice time 45:07 to chill out for themselves, 45:09 some time to bond with their children 45:11 without the pressures of home. 45:15 So that's been really, really beneficial to us too. 45:20 You know, like, you bring them 45:22 thinking that you're going to be a blessing, 45:24 but in actual fact, you are blessed. 45:27 So just a little bit more about that. 45:30 What do you call it, Hope Stayz? 45:31 Hope Stayz. 45:33 So you make the meals, you know, 45:36 you have someone to cater them meals? 45:38 Yeah, we have caterers. 45:40 These are all voluntary people. 45:42 The last couple of years, 45:45 we have had chefs volunteer their time. 45:47 So we have a big dinner. 45:50 There's a few programs that are set up to help women. 45:54 They very much participate in everything, you know, 45:58 they contribute their ideas, 46:03 they make friendships, they carry on outside of, 46:07 you know, the camp going forward. 46:09 It's just amazing to watch some of them 46:11 have been baptized in our churches 46:14 and some of them just stay in touch, 46:16 some of them come back as volunteers 46:20 so it's very uplifting for everybody. 46:24 We have a big dinner on the final evening. 46:29 We have a pop-up shop where they can gather garments, 46:34 shoes, items. 46:36 Lot of them are brand new. 46:38 And so we have this magical evening, 46:41 the tables are all set, there's flowers, 46:43 their meals are plated by the chefs. 46:46 It's pretty incredible. 46:48 They just leave in awe. So they can really relax? 46:50 Absolutely. 46:52 They're not having to look, like you said, they can get 46:53 away from the house 46:55 and not having to look after a house, 46:56 prepare meals and do all the things 46:58 for their children. 47:00 And their children are there, enjoying themselves 47:02 but they can actually spend time 47:03 enjoying with their children. 47:05 Exactly. 47:06 And reacting with other women who know where they are. 47:10 Likeminded. 47:11 They're at the same situation. 47:12 Absolutely. That's beautiful. 47:14 I just wanna ask, how many times a year 47:15 do you do that? 47:17 We do that once a year, every April. 47:19 And round about how many people come? 47:21 We have 12 to 15 families. 47:26 So each family has their own room 47:29 and we have a support person for each family. 47:33 So that that person is there for, 47:36 because sometimes you know, 47:38 during the course of the few days, 47:41 things come up for people. 47:43 We have generally, a counselor that 47:45 they can speak to, if they need to. 47:48 There's a whole lot of networking 47:50 going on for them. 47:51 So if people want to find out more about it, 47:53 they can contact you at Crosslands and... 47:55 Yeah. 47:56 Yeah, we'll have those details soon 47:57 so have your pen and paper ready 47:59 because you can write it down. 48:00 Now you were gonna say something to Bruce. 48:02 Yeah, I was going to say, you know, 48:03 both of you are on the frontlines 48:04 because you're dealing with youth. 48:06 Youth now are very different. 48:08 Well, I think they are, to my generation. 48:13 You know, how do you deal with youth groups? 48:18 We are in a fortunate situation. 48:23 Mainly our programs are all self-governed, 48:28 so we don't have to deal 48:31 with the day-to-day activities as such. 48:35 But we're certainly there and witness what's happening, 48:40 but as far as dealing with the youth, 48:44 that's probably not my forte actually. 48:47 So you meet youth groups, don't you? 48:49 Oh, we do... 48:50 You must have some stories to come out of youth groups. 48:53 Yeah, look, we haven't got enough time to share them all, 48:57 but like one particular one, it's very similar to 49:00 what I shared with our summer camp. 49:04 I had one youth group that wanted to use 49:07 the pool inflatable after the program that night 49:10 and they were running a little late. 49:12 So I just went, 49:13 they were sitting around a campfire. 49:15 And I just sat in the background, 49:17 waiting for the time for them to be ready to go 49:20 and put the inflatable work for them. 49:23 I just sat there and I was just speechless. 49:27 Really just, again, same thing happening. 49:29 I heard these young people 49:31 all giving their hearts to Jesus. 49:35 It was just, again, a reminder for me, 49:37 why I was there 49:39 and this is happening all the time. 49:41 I don't witness it, but there are so many groups 49:44 that go through the... 49:47 Church camps, we own a lot of camps 49:51 through Australia and New Zealand. 49:54 There's been some statistics done about camps. 50:00 Believe it or not, 50:01 camps are the third most important 50:04 means of bringing people to Christ out of anything 50:07 that's over above, church, schools, 50:10 home groups, anything that... 50:13 And that's what the statistics tell us so. 50:15 Amazing. 50:17 So you have a very important role, 50:18 that's what it boils down to. 50:20 Yes. 50:21 And yeah, God's reminded us of that. 50:24 And, Maxine, just tell us this story 50:28 about the demon possessed girl. 50:30 Okay, so in New Zealand, 50:32 I did a lot of victim support work. 50:36 So when Bruce was saying about questioning God 50:39 about my current existence, why am I here cleaning toilets? 50:45 It wasn't very fulfilling. 50:49 We create an environment for people to run camps 50:53 and so you are disconnected from the group somewhat. 50:58 So you need to find where you fit. 51:02 And so one time I was up, 51:07 cleaning in the top building, 51:09 the Edilong Facility and I heard this noise, 51:13 somebody calling out. 51:15 It wasn't a evil sound, it was just unusual 51:19 and I followed it 51:21 and I come across a group of people 51:25 and there was a young girl that had... 51:32 She appeared to be demon possessed 51:35 and I stood there 51:38 because I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas, 51:40 if you like. 51:42 I'm thinking, you know, "Is this an act?" 51:47 And my husband come along and he saw 51:50 what was going on 51:51 and he was out of there really quickly. 51:54 Chicken. 51:56 And I'm thinking is this something 51:57 that I should be standing here for? 52:02 Or should I just move on? 52:05 But anyway, I decided no. 52:08 You know, this is sacred ground 52:11 but it doesn't mean 52:12 that the enemy does not have access. 52:17 So I stood with them and we prayed 52:19 and we sang hymns and this girl... 52:28 she didn't know me. 52:30 And I'm thinking, she was calling out 52:32 sins of people within the group 52:35 and I was thinking, "She knows them. 52:38 She could easily know all those things." 52:40 And then she meant, "Maxine, 52:44 you think you're okay, don't you?" 52:49 And I just thought, "Yeah." 52:52 And then she said, "Come, take my hand. 52:55 Come and talk with me." 52:58 And I thought, "Wow." 52:59 I think that was my first, you know, 53:02 I've had experiences with God before, 53:05 but this was pretty intense. 53:07 And I thought, "I know what my role here is. 53:12 And you know, 53:15 there was a really good outcome from that. 53:19 It's a long story and it's hers to tell 53:24 but she is right with God now and that's what matters. 53:29 But it was really interesting watching her church family 53:33 come together for her protection. 53:36 You know, since then, 53:37 Bruce has built me a prayer closet. 53:39 I don't have a lot of room but, you know, I put the things up 53:43 that are important to me. 53:45 And I think that that is one of the crucial things 53:48 that we have to do at Crosslands and it's to be, 53:51 I sometimes go and do prayer walks for groups. 53:53 That's right. I agree. 53:55 It's very, very important to pray 53:57 for each group that comes. 53:58 We're talking about Crosslands Youth and Convention Centre, 54:02 with Bruce and Maxine Hill and we're gonna put up 54:05 their contact details now 54:07 so that you can write them down 54:08 and contact them if you are interested in going 54:11 and helping them in some way 54:14 or if you're wanting to go and find out 54:16 about booking to stay there, 54:18 whether a family, a group, 54:20 find out about these Hope Stayz women's weekend. 54:24 Any of those things, here are their details. 54:30 If you like to contact Crosslands 54:32 Youth and Convention Centre, in Sydney, 54:34 to book a church or family group, 54:36 you can contact them in the following ways. 54:39 Call in Australia on (02) 9653 1041. 54:45 That's (02) 9653 1041. 54:50 Send them an email to office@crosslands.org.au. 54:55 That's office@crosslands.org.au. 55:00 Visit their website by pointing your web browser 55:03 to www.crosslands.org.au. 55:08 Contact them today. 55:13 I hope you wrote those details down 55:14 because I'm sure that Bruce and Maxine 55:17 would love to hear from you because Crosslands 55:19 really is a very special place when you go there. 55:22 It's beautiful among the river. 55:23 Now, Bruce, I want to ask you, 55:26 what sort of activities do you have 55:28 for the youth groups that come there? 55:31 I will read them off my list because there's numerous. 55:34 Okay. 55:36 So, look, we have camping, 55:37 obviously, you've seen these in the pictures. 55:40 The Bush Chapel, canoes, 55:42 the pool inflatable in the swimming pool 55:45 and we do river cruise as I have already mentioned, 55:47 paddleboards, high ropes, flying foxes, rock climbing, 55:53 abseiling, beach volleyball, tennis, basketball, bush walks, 55:58 and we've also got something that I put together 56:03 during COVID that's, which is an ecology hunt so. 56:07 Oh, so what do you do with that? 56:09 It's basically items that shouldn't 56:11 belong in the environment 56:13 and kids have to find them and teaches them 56:16 to look after the environment by recognizing things 56:19 that don't belong and I've put a list together 56:22 of how many thousand years 56:24 or how many years items take to decompose 56:27 and it teaches them that 56:30 they should look after the environment basically. 56:32 Excellent. 56:34 Now you've got a quote from Ellen White 56:35 that you would like to say, to show us. 56:37 I do. 56:39 In fact, can we get Maxine to read that? 56:42 She's a better reader than me. We can. 56:44 Yeah. We can. 56:45 And the people at home can see what you're reading. 56:49 "The trials of life are God's workmen, 56:52 to remove the impurities and roughness 56:55 from our characters. 56:57 Their hewing, squaring, and chiseling, their burnishing 57:00 and polishing, is a painful process. 57:04 It is hard to be pressed down to the grinding wheel. 57:08 But the stone is brought forth prepared to fill its place 57:11 in the heavenly temple. 57:14 Upon no useless material 57:16 does the Master bestow such careful, thorough work. 57:20 Only His precious stones are polished 57:23 after the similitude of a palace." 57:27 Well, I think that 57:28 that is a beautiful message for us 57:31 to finish on because you've been through that. 57:34 God wants to put us through that 57:35 to get us ready for eternity and you're working for Him 57:38 in helping other people to do that. 57:41 And I'm sure that you've been blessed by what they have said. 57:44 We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us. |
Revised 2020-12-27