Pure Choices

Jesus Is My Reparative Therapist

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Mike Carducci (Host), Wayne Blakely

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Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000035


00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:42 I am Mike Carducci with Coming Out Ministries,
00:45 your host for today's program Pure Choices.
00:47 I have with me my friend and colleague Wayne Blakely
00:50 from Coming Out Ministries.
00:51 And we want to talk about Jesus being our reparative therapist.
00:56 That may not sound very clear to a lot of people out there
01:00 that may be watching this program.
01:01 Wayne, give me an idea, what is reparative therapy?
01:05 How long do we have? Half an hour.
01:07 Okay.
01:09 Well, you know, we want to take a look at the recent law
01:12 that was passed here in California
01:15 about reparative therapy
01:18 not actually being allowed anymore
01:20 in the state of California.
01:22 Can you give me just an idea though for our viewers
01:24 who don't understand, what is reparative therapy?
01:27 That would be in most reparative therapy circles,
01:32 the idea that you can take somebody
01:34 who is gay and make them straight.
01:38 What would that be,
01:39 what would that type of therapy be?
01:41 You know, there's all kinds
01:42 of different therapies involved in,
01:45 the promise is that we can rewire you
01:49 and get you connected to your appropriate gender.
01:52 And in doing so one of the things
01:55 I recently saw a film,
01:57 Christian based film
01:59 where one of the partners in the film said,
02:02 "You know, I went through five years
02:04 of reparative therapy."
02:06 And so he opens up and shows a book
02:08 of a guy laying in his father's arms,
02:11 and the idea is that if you're rocked
02:13 in your father's arms over a period of time,
02:16 of therapy time
02:17 that you will no longer want to engage
02:20 in intimacy with a male, a sexual intimacy with a male.
02:24 And so that really kind of ruined him,
02:26 he went through five years of this.
02:28 And, you know, I was at the film where this...
02:31 where he was actually
02:34 and I went to him afterwards and I said,
02:36 "You know, I'm really sorry
02:38 that you went through that
02:40 because that's not the kind of therapy
02:42 that would engage you with Jesus Christ.
02:44 That's just trying to set you right in some kind of idea
02:49 about the appropriate sexual function
02:52 that you're supposed to have."
02:54 And to me
02:55 it's kind of ridiculous that going things
02:57 from that angle as opposed to going through therapy
03:02 and getting my life back
03:04 in right standing with Jesus Christ
03:05 in what my gender is through him.
03:08 I see.
03:09 Is it true that some reparative therapy includes men
03:14 that are homosexual to watch heterosexual pornography?
03:18 Yes, that's one of the therapies involved.
03:20 And they believe that if they immerse you
03:22 in this that you will finally get it,
03:25 you know, your mind will get things wired
03:27 so that you will want to engage in heterosexual sex.
03:31 But if this is being used as a therapy for someone
03:35 who's coming out of a gay life
03:37 into engaging into a relationship
03:41 with Jesus Christ now, my question is still,
03:43 why are we putting the cart before the horse?
03:46 Isn't it true that Jesus says
03:48 that we only need to fall in love
03:52 with one person for our life, one person of the opposite sex?
03:57 We don't need to fall in love with the entire population
04:01 of the opposite sex
04:02 and that God will go about putting that person
04:05 in front of us
04:07 when it's according to His plan.
04:09 And not that we should go about this from a therapy standpoint
04:14 that we're trying to wire somebody
04:15 so that they want to engage in sexual relationships
04:19 with the opposite sex, because if you do that,
04:21 you accomplish that who's to say
04:24 that I'm not going to now want to start chasing every woman
04:26 that I see
04:28 instead of just being suited for one woman.
04:31 And the damage in this
04:33 that has been caused over time is phenomenal
04:36 and that's why it's been turned into a law now
04:39 that in the state of California that this kind of therapy
04:41 is not being allowed.
04:43 There's been a lot of people
04:44 who've ended up committing suicide
04:46 because of these approaches and techniques.
04:48 All right.
04:49 So there's definitely a difference between
04:51 the Christian approach to restoration, right,
04:54 and the reparative therapy.
04:56 So why would the law in California
05:00 have anything to do with Christianity?
05:03 You know, I don't know,
05:05 well, because there have been people
05:07 under the guise
05:10 of Christianity
05:13 that have maybe been using
05:14 some of these techniques
05:17 in thinking that they're doing the right thing.
05:19 Again, not understanding
05:21 what it is that Jesus is calling us to
05:24 and the healing that is promised
05:25 through Jesus Christ.
05:26 There are various ways
05:28 that we can help people reconnect with Jesus
05:30 and with their own masculinity or femininity
05:35 if you're a woman
05:36 who's wanting to come back and get rewired
05:39 according to God's plan for you.
05:41 But by the application
05:42 of some of these bizarre techniques,
05:47 a lot of them aren't done under Christianity at all.
05:50 I guess that's one of the main points here
05:52 is that there's so much therapy out there
05:53 that is just saying...
05:55 As a society
05:57 we can go and change somebody's
05:58 sexual preference and let's just put it
06:00 into the role of what is more accepted
06:03 so that this person has a more natural life.
06:06 But I'm looking at it I guess from the standpoint of,
06:10 from Christianity it seems odd and awkward to me
06:15 to put sex out there
06:17 as trying to fix the sex problem
06:19 rather than trying to bring the person
06:22 back into an intimate relationship
06:23 with Jesus Christ where He's in charge,
06:27 He's my reparative therapist.
06:30 He's the one that showing me
06:33 by engaging in doing,
06:36 living life according to His will,
06:39 He's been able to show me along the way
06:41 in my relationships now
06:43 as they have developed with men inside my church,
06:48 with men that He is now putting me
06:50 in touch with as friends,
06:53 who are mentors to me now and through this mentorship
06:57 I'm finding out about life not from a sexual relationship
07:02 with another man
07:03 but from a relationship in which
07:05 I become a friend of His
07:08 and have a morally beautiful relationship
07:11 with this person instead of the way my life
07:15 was mapped under the deception
07:17 of my feelings that were brought on by Satan.
07:20 Okay.
07:21 So, Wayne, being,
07:23 you know, members of Coming Out Ministries,
07:25 we both had been redeemed from homosexuality.
07:28 What's been incredible is I didn't even know that,
07:31 you know, God could take away
07:32 the wrong impulses and the wrong desires
07:35 and He'd give me healthy ones.
07:36 And you know, we've both been submitted
07:38 to the process of Jesus doing that work that He needs to do
07:42 and while we didn't have an instantaneous,
07:45 you know, magic wand over the head
07:47 if you would experience and you know,
07:49 we didn't come up out of the water
07:50 and ready to date and mate and all of that,
07:52 but as we've been in that process
07:54 it's been more than just behavior modification
07:58 which some of reparative therapy seems
07:59 to mimic is about,
08:01 you know, one of the things that I did in high school is,
08:04 you know, I promptly got a girlfriend,
08:05 you know, to make sure I looked right
08:07 and I thought that,
08:08 you know, even if I engaged in,
08:11 you know, some petting with my girlfriend
08:13 and, you know, it had arouse me to a point I thought,
08:15 "Well, maybe if I got married that all of these feelings
08:17 would go away,"
08:19 and I know that many people
08:20 who struggle with homosexual tendencies do
08:23 that hoping that that would be the cure
08:25 when in actuality it keeps it laden
08:28 and what happens is it ends up
08:30 just kind of busting out of the seams at a later time.
08:33 And so reparative therapy,
08:35 by what I'm hearing you say is really not dealing
08:40 with the root cause
08:41 which is, you know,
08:42 allowing Jesus Christ to do the rewiring.
08:45 Letting behavior modification
08:46 or certain therapies to tap into some of the reasons
08:50 why we seek male love,
08:53 but yet what you're saying is that
08:55 there's a different connection that's vital.
08:57 And so, Wayne, why is it that that you say
09:00 Jesus is your reparative therapist?
09:03 Well, because God offers healing
09:08 for any of our inadequacies.
09:12 And as I trust in Him and I seek His word
09:16 and I begin to walk with Him daily,
09:20 I see Him beginning to reshape my life.
09:22 And people ask me today,
09:24 "Oh, so do you think you'll get married?"
09:26 You know, it's like everybody wants the proof,
09:29 you know, and then they'll know for sure
09:30 that if you get married
09:32 that the healing has taken place.
09:34 And so today I'm not so sure
09:36 that my right wiring is such that God,
09:41 that has design for me is to,
09:43 you know, immediately get married
09:44 and then say,
09:46 "Ah, you're fixed now, you're justified."
09:48 And I think that
09:50 what God has been saying to me is that,
09:52 "Wayne, I want for you to come back
09:55 into a relationship with me,
09:58 one in which your focus is on me.
10:01 Your daily living is centered in me.
10:04 And don't be surprised
10:06 if I actually put in front of you
10:09 the one woman as a gift to you."
10:13 How many women?
10:15 The one woman. All right, okay.
10:16 Yeah, just want to make...
10:17 Just want to make sure that we understand that.
10:19 As we, you know, as a world,
10:21 as a society today
10:22 we have this whole sex agenda out there that's like,
10:26 we're all going to be having sex
10:28 with multiple partners
10:30 and it's just flashing at you all over the place.
10:33 Where as God is saying,
10:34 "You know, this is a gift of intimacy
10:37 that I will engage you with the person
10:39 that I want you to fall in love with,
10:42 and if I want you
10:43 to fall in love with this person
10:45 and I have...
10:46 And your focus is on me,
10:49 then I have a relationship with you
10:52 in which is now become pure
10:54 and you have a right wiring to be able to see the person
10:57 that I want you to fall in love with."
10:59 And these feelings are going to follow.
11:01 They're not going to have to be something
11:03 that's programmed by a psychologist
11:05 or psychiatrist for which has happened,
11:08 that's the goal for many of these therapies today
11:11 and the person entering it
11:13 may have also just come back to Jesus Christ.
11:16 And so because it's out there now,
11:18 I mean, this has been topic,
11:19 a big topic today
11:21 through some of the larger organizations
11:23 that are dealing
11:24 with the return of the homosexuals
11:27 coming back into a relationship with Jesus Christ.
11:29 And some of them are ditching the reparative therapy books
11:32 because they're beginning to see
11:34 this also has been something
11:36 that has been causing harm and danger to people
11:39 that they think that they need to satisfy
11:42 the heterosexual type of look,
11:49 the heterosexual behavior,
11:51 if we can get people engaged
11:53 in that then that can again be proof
11:55 that the conversion is complete.
11:56 And so I still say this today as many people are saying
12:00 that the opposite of homosexuality
12:03 is not heterosexuality but holiness.
12:07 And I trust God because I know that God,
12:10 if He wants me to have
12:12 a beautiful woman for me to love
12:14 and He is now trusting that I have engaged
12:17 in the right relationship with Him,
12:19 that very well could be a gift,
12:22 a fruit of my recovery with Jesus Christ
12:25 but not one
12:26 that is orchestrated by mankind,
12:28 but that's actually been orchestrated by God.
12:31 The beauty of God is He is the great physician,
12:34 He's our Creator and our Maker.
12:36 And so Jesus is intimate
12:38 with every nuance of your life
12:42 from the moment that you were born
12:43 even conceived until now,
12:45 so as a great physician He knows the exact therapy
12:49 that you're in and that you're under
12:50 and so until the time that you are to the point
12:54 where you could be in a healthy relationship
12:56 with one woman, He knows when that timing is.
12:59 And so as we submit to that process,
13:02 you know, it's about Him getting us ready
13:04 and then when the time is right,
13:06 it'll be fruitful,
13:07 it'll be everything that it was meant to be.
13:09 Our brother said something yesterday
13:11 that I thought was profound,
13:12 who's been married,
13:14 it was Elder Raymond King and he said,
13:16 "Isn't it interesting
13:17 that it took Solomon a 1000 women
13:20 to get what he gets with just one woman."
13:23 And that was the satisfaction,
13:25 the intimacy that he was craving.
13:28 He thought by going to other women
13:29 and we know
13:31 that he had beautiful women at his disposal
13:33 but we also know that he had men
13:35 in his life as well.
13:36 He said, "Everything that my eye saw I touched."
13:39 So we know that Solomon was very degraded sexually
13:42 by the things that he had beheld.
13:43 But I love the contrast
13:45 that our brother said yesterday about the fact
13:47 that he chased around all of these situations
13:50 and never found satisfaction,
13:51 never found the satisfaction
13:53 that our brother gets with one wife.
13:55 That's right.
13:56 So, you know, it's interesting to note
13:58 that that Jesus offers a different type of therapy
14:03 than reparative therapy.
14:05 And so I believe
14:06 that what we're really trying to differentiate
14:09 is that reparative therapy
14:10 isn't like Christianity in the sense
14:13 that Jesus wants to do the work
14:15 on the inside.
14:16 One of the things that we get a lot, Wayne,
14:18 is when we do our presentations people
14:20 look at us and they go,
14:21 "Are you sure that you're healed?"
14:23 You know, and some of the residue
14:24 which is what we call,
14:26 you know, that ability to still have
14:28 a feminine mannerisms
14:29 or to still have a flair for color
14:32 or whatever that is,
14:33 you know, we understand
14:35 that that there are scars to healing
14:38 that when you have a wound that wound is really a sign
14:42 that there's been healing taken place.
14:44 And so the beauty is that Jesus doesn't look on the outside,
14:48 Jesus looks on the heart.
14:49 And so I think one of the things
14:51 that we have to turn around for people
14:53 who may be,
14:54 you know, watching us and saying,
14:55 "That, you call that a redeemed homosexual?"
14:58 Yes, because Jesus didn't do the work on the outside.
15:02 Some of those things are residual
15:05 from the way that we were born.
15:07 I accepted femininity as my identity at an early age
15:10 when my cement was wet if you would, and so, you know,
15:13 my identity became stamped in the feminine,
15:15 some of those traits will be with me until Jesus comes.
15:18 But the fact remains that the work that Jesus has done
15:21 on the inside far exceeds anything
15:24 that I believe reparative therapy would do.
15:27 Right.
15:28 You know, some of our cultural wiring
15:31 has been so hardwired that we are not open
15:34 to looking at some of this fluctuation.
15:37 Society has put us in a box, you know,
15:40 that masculinity has to look a certain way.
15:45 And that if we don't, if we don't look like that
15:48 then we're not who we were meant to be,
15:50 we're not normal.
15:52 But you know, we just came back from Africa
15:55 and what was normal here was quite different in Africa
15:59 because in Africa when you go and you pat a man on the back,
16:05 he's going to get pretty annoyed with you
16:07 pretty soon because when you do the masculine pat on the back
16:10 that we do here in the United States,
16:13 that's a pick up line in Africa saying that
16:16 you want to involve yourself intimately
16:18 with that man in Africa.
16:20 Where as the reverse is happening in Africa
16:23 where as two men will hold hands together
16:26 and walk down the street together
16:28 and has nothing to do
16:30 with wanting to have some kind of sexual intimacy
16:33 between the two of them.
16:35 Right. Right.
16:36 And so it says something to me about how we need to maybe
16:39 be a little bit more humble in our church environments
16:44 about how we look at the returning homosexual.
16:48 That we begin to develop relationships
16:51 that aren't so much based on their feminine
16:54 or their masculine characteristics
16:56 but what is on the inside about what Jesus is doing
17:01 in this person's heart.
17:02 Yeah.
17:03 So I think it's important that we look at what King David said
17:07 which is that we are fearfully and wonderfully made.
17:11 There are many feminine type men
17:14 that are married today that their wives would say,
17:17 "My husband's a great lover,"
17:18 and so we have this thing in society
17:20 that we've just had this conditioning to think
17:23 that masculinity means this and femininity means that.
17:27 And so as a church community if we could come together
17:31 and allow some of this cultural environment
17:37 that has hardwired us to drop off a bit
17:39 and just go to the Word of God and look at
17:42 who we are in Jesus Christ,
17:44 not place judgments on one another
17:47 and allow ourselves to engage with one another without,
17:52 you know, making these prejudgments.
17:53 It would just be amazing to see what's possible.
17:57 You know, Wayne, I think of two contrasting stories
18:00 or situations that I had.
18:03 When I first came back at 40 years old,
18:06 there was this very humble Spanish couple
18:10 and they had a 10 year old daughter.
18:12 And they let three of us homosexuals into their house
18:16 and we were having a Sunday evening Bible study.
18:18 What was amazing is this humble couple,
18:20 they didn't even have much in the way, you know,
18:23 of where they lived, it was in a low income housing area
18:26 whatever but I'm telling you they gave us everything
18:29 that they had, they loved us.
18:31 And I think it finally dawned on them
18:33 that I think we're entertaining three homosexuals in our home
18:36 and now they've shared with me,
18:39 they're very good friends of mine still.
18:40 But they shared with me that they were talking about,
18:43 "What should we do,
18:44 we have three homosexuals in our home
18:46 and a 10 year old daughter?"
18:47 And the husband looked at his wife and he said,
18:49 "Nothing, nothing, they are children of God
18:51 just like we are, you know,
18:53 and they're here for a legitimate reason
18:55 and we're studying the Word of God
18:57 and God loves them just as He loves us."
19:00 So in spite of what they were seeing in mannerisms,
19:03 they recognized us as children of God
19:05 and worthy of, you know, the grace and the gospel.
19:09 But then I'm remembering, you know,
19:11 back when you know many years later
19:13 and you and I were at a conference
19:16 and we were talking to someone about our ministry
19:20 and the comment was made not to us
19:23 but to somebody else that got back to us
19:25 that, "You know, I don't know about those guys, I'm seeing,
19:29 you know, they still have feminine mannerisms
19:30 and I'm thinking that they may still be struggling."
19:33 And how sad because, again, we tend to look at people
19:37 on the outside and we make judgments
19:39 which isn't right, you know.
19:41 And we're trying to assess and to think, you know,
19:44 where people are at whatever in their experience
19:46 and yet we're called as Christians
19:48 to love each other
19:49 and to not make those kind of judgments.
19:51 And so, you know, the word residue again comes up
19:54 that some of those mannerisms, we can't change,
19:57 we're not in charge of that.
19:58 And even if we could that would not be a total sign
20:01 of the healing that comes from within, isn't it?
20:03 Yeah.
20:04 You know, it hangs on me a little bit
20:06 when I hear things like that instantly had made my heart
20:10 sink a bit and I went, "Oh, really, come on."
20:12 Well, where does it take you, Wayne?
20:13 Oh, it takes me back to my childhood...
20:16 That's right.
20:18 It takes me back to the rejection
20:19 to there been beat up, to not fitting the mold,
20:22 and I thought, "Wow, that's really interesting
20:24 that a Christian, a man of God would make this observation."
20:29 And I said to the person who shared this with me,
20:31 I said, "Oh," I said,
20:33 "He needs to come to one of our seminars."
20:35 You know, because it's not necessarily
20:38 the outward appearance that changes
20:40 when someone returns to Jesus, it's not that
20:43 I went under the water gay and I came up straight
20:46 and all masculine and buff and ready to meet the world,
20:50 you know, or that I need to be married off as though
20:54 that were the solution to the problem.
20:56 What we know that many men that are married struggle
20:59 with homosexuality.
21:01 So we know on the outside that's not a cure, right?
21:04 So, Wayne, let's bring it around now.
21:05 What is the cure?
21:08 Well, again, the cure comes through Jesus Christ.
21:11 Amen, that's right. And, you know, it's not...
21:15 The behaviors, you know, are things that
21:17 I think people can look at.
21:20 Yeah, if you have a desire and you want to, you know,
21:24 learn to how to go butch it up, you know,
21:26 feel free but don't let...
21:29 If it's not successful, you know,
21:32 to your image, you know, that doesn't mean that
21:34 God loves you any less or that you're not...
21:36 Or that the work isn't being done.
21:38 Absolutely. Right.
21:39 Your genuine relationship in Jesus Christ
21:42 is not so much through the characteristic.
21:45 And I think of the one person
21:47 who has a major testimony
21:53 about this is Sy Rogers, you know.
21:55 And he's really great at about joking about his femininity
21:59 and helping people see that the genuineness
22:01 of Jesus Christ flows through him
22:04 not necessarily through some characteristic
22:06 that's supposed to be reshaped.
22:07 Right.
22:08 I love to tell that story
22:10 and I'll tell people who have never seen him.
22:12 Sy Rogers is a person who actually was
22:14 about to have a sex change.
22:15 He lived as a woman for a couple of years.
22:17 And just before he was about...
22:20 I think he was just a few months
22:22 from having a sex change,
22:23 he'd given his heart to the Lord, dressed as a woman
22:26 and the Lord still saw his potential,
22:28 He saved him and redeemed him.
22:30 And so he said, "Lord,
22:31 I give you permission to work in my life.
22:32 If you don't want me to have a sex change,
22:34 let me know."
22:35 And two days, two weeks later
22:38 his whole program was shut down.
22:39 They were no longer doing the sex change operations
22:41 at his hospital and he said,
22:43 "Wow, the Lord shut down the whole program just for me,"
22:45 but his mannerisms still were incredibly feminine
22:49 from living that way for so long.
22:51 And then after he's been in ministry
22:53 and he's been in ministry for 20 some years,
22:55 married with a daughter
22:57 and I think he's a grandfather now.
22:58 But people will actually come up to him
23:00 and they look at him and they go,
23:02 "You're the example of a redeemed homosexual?"
23:04 He goes, "Yes."
23:06 And they go, "Well, why aren't you more butch?"
23:07 And he goes, "I am,"
23:09 which is hysterically funny to me.
23:11 But what that did is that help me to recognize that
23:14 that even as a hairdresser and I know, Wayne,
23:15 that you even love doing floral arrangements
23:18 which to me are probably
23:19 the two most high profile gay occupations
23:23 that you could possibly have, that's right.
23:25 But God gave us those attributes,
23:28 we have that talent
23:29 and that's not to me a definition of femininity.
23:32 It's still a talent of God because Jesus decorated
23:36 the fields with flowers.
23:37 He's the ultimate florist if you ask me.
23:39 And then look He gave our heads, you know,
23:42 He covered our, well, some of our heads with hair.
23:44 And so to me I have to recognize that
23:46 even those attributes they're not defined
23:50 by who I am but I believe that they're still gifts of God,
23:54 and I think that we have to move past
23:56 and outside of those stereotypes
23:58 that we have to recognize that
23:59 everyone no matter what their talents are,
24:02 we're still children of God and that's no indication
24:04 of the work that He's doing within us.
24:06 Yeah, you know, I have a...
24:08 As you know I have a friend that I talk to you about now
24:11 who is a new friend, heterosexual friend
24:14 that is kind of...
24:15 I'm getting the rewiring right
24:17 about this same gendered friendship today.
24:20 And he said something about my talents
24:22 and that I should be, you know,
24:25 very open and out there with my talents
24:27 and live there for people to see, you know,
24:30 my ability to design and do various things.
24:33 And I said, "Well, I don't know
24:34 I kind of play that down a little bit
24:36 because I don't want to be judged, you know."
24:37 And he says, "Oh, come on," you know, he says,
24:40 "I," you know, and he's very masculine
24:42 and he does photography and designs his own sets
24:46 and gets into some creativity and stuff.
24:47 And he says, "I wouldn't let what anybody thinks of you
24:50 stop you.
24:51 You know, you need to find out who you are in Jesus Christ
24:55 and use the gifts that God has given you
24:57 and not let the world, you know,
24:59 bring this oppression on you or try to make you feel bad."
25:02 Beautiful.
25:04 So, Wayne, if you would, what has been the result
25:07 of your personal research on this topic
25:09 and how successful is reparative therapy?
25:13 Well, you know,
25:14 I did look up statistics on this for quite a while
25:18 and found that, I found a study,
25:22 one of the major studies that was done
25:25 showed that 35% of the people
25:30 before going into reparative therapy had tried suicide,
25:35 and then I think it was 20 some percent
25:39 during the therapy that tried to commit suicide.
25:44 And again, the number elevated again
25:47 after the therapy.
25:49 And so that said to me that
25:51 the therapy wasn't too terribly successful
25:53 and that the focus was probably again in the wrong place.
25:56 Instead of being on behavior,
25:59 the focus should really be on Jesus Christ
26:01 because Jesus loves you,
26:03 Jesus is going to reaffirm your importance to Him
26:05 regardless of your masculine or feminine characteristics.
26:10 And so I don't...
26:12 I'm not a big proponent of reparative therapy today
26:16 and I feel really bad for a lot of people
26:18 who have a bad picture of Christianity
26:23 because of reparative therapy and think that
26:25 that we want people to fit a certain mold
26:28 and so it's given a bad name, you know, to Christianity.
26:31 A lot of gay people will associate
26:33 reparative therapy with Christianity
26:36 even if it's not had administered from a Christian.
26:40 So the synopsis or the result
26:45 actually that I have come up with is that
26:47 Jesus is my reparative therapist
26:50 and I believe that the healing
26:51 that's taking place through Him
26:53 is more complete than what it would be
26:55 if I went into secular psychology therapy.
26:59 I agree.
27:00 You know, having worked in the psych department
27:03 at a hospital for over 10 years,
27:05 you know, I saw this revolving door of how,
27:08 you know, many of the therapies that they weren't complete
27:11 or weren't totally successful I believe
27:14 we're missing that component of what Jesus can restore
27:17 and redeem in our lives.
27:19 I know that when I accepted Jesus as my Savior,
27:21 I never chose to be straight.
27:23 I just chose Jesus Christ, that's all I could do.
27:26 I couldn't change my attractions,
27:28 I didn't even want to
27:29 but as I walk legitimately with Jesus,
27:31 He started to address it, He started to work on it
27:34 and He's given me that freedom now
27:36 that I never even thought was possible.
27:38 So, Wayne, thank you for sharing your thoughts
27:42 about reparative therapy and a lot of the information.
27:45 We hope that you've enjoyed our program today
27:47 here on Pure Choices.
27:48 And we invite you to come back to hear more of
27:50 Coming Out Ministries in the future.


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Revised 2017-09-26