Participants: Joshua Nelson (Host), Brittany Hill-Morales, Kimberly Douglas, Kory Douglas, Xavier Morales
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000087A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:02 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:04 may be too candid for younger children. 00:38 Hello and welcome to Pure Choices. 00:40 I'm your host Pastor Joshua Nelson. 00:43 I'm so glad you decided to join us once again 00:44 for another edition of Pure Choices. 00:46 Today, our title is Loving Every Community. 00:49 And we want to talk specifically 00:51 to the LGBTQIA community. 00:54 And I know this is going to be a very sensitive topic, 00:57 but it's a necessary discussion. 00:58 So before we get into it, 00:59 let us bow our heads for a moment of prayer. 01:02 Heavenly Father, God, we ask that your presence 01:04 will be with us right now. 01:06 Send Your Spirit, God, to guide this conversation. 01:08 In Jesus' name we pray, amen. Amen. 01:11 All right, to my left, introducing the panel, 01:14 we have Pastor KP Douglas, pastor in Southeast Missouri. 01:17 Good to have you here, my brother. 01:18 Good to be here, man. 01:20 And we have his wife as well 01:21 here on the couch Kimberly Douglas. 01:23 So glad you're here with us today. 01:25 Next to her we have the Morales family, 01:26 Xavier and Brittany, 01:28 so glad that you all are here with us today. 01:30 Let us get into this discussion. 01:32 This is definitely a hot topic right now, 01:35 a necessary discussion that we need to have 01:37 as young Seventh-day Adventist Christians, 01:40 we especially need to address this 01:44 because this community has been hurt by our church, 01:50 I would say, and by other churches 01:51 who may not necessarily know how to address them, 01:54 how to speak to what they are feeling. 01:58 And so I want us to be sensitive to that 02:00 and understand that as we discuss today. 02:04 And I want us to talk to this community, 02:05 now, you know, this is a very broad community. 02:07 Of course we know that, 02:08 you know, originally it's the LGBT. 02:10 But of course, they've added the "Q" and the "I" and the "A" 02:14 to broaden the scope of that community. 02:16 And so we want to talk to, you know, lesbians, gays, 02:18 bisexuals, transgender, they added the "Q" 02:22 which means queer, or intersexual, and asexual, 02:25 and we want to address these individuals. 02:27 But the first question I want to have for you all 02:29 is how do you feel towards this community? 02:33 Let's just be honest. 02:34 How do you feel towards this community? 02:36 As Christians, what are your feelings 02:38 towards this community? 02:40 And I'm going to start with Brittany 02:42 to begin with her statement. 02:45 As time progresses, 02:46 I guess I'm feeling more confused 02:48 almost as maybe confused as the homosexual 02:50 or even the LGBTQIA community is feeling. 02:55 There are so many different elements 02:57 and spectrums to it. 02:59 For starters, with homosexuality, 03:01 you have this element 03:02 of maybe you're just experimenting, 03:04 so you're not really a homosexual, 03:06 you're just experimenting with someone else 03:08 or maybe you're just in that position, 03:10 your situational homosexual where you're in prison, 03:14 so you just have to do that 03:15 because there's no one else to do it with. 03:17 Or if you're social world homosexual 03:19 where they just made you into, 03:21 like there are so many different elements to it 03:23 and even the preferential way, 03:25 you're just preferring to be a homosexual 03:27 but you're not very active 03:29 because something bad happened to you, 03:31 you decide to be... 03:32 There's just so much different elements to it. 03:35 It's kind of confusing to really pinpoint 03:37 what exactly is this entire spectrum. 03:40 Okay, that's an honest response there. 03:43 Yeah, and that's something I'm sure a lot of us share, 03:46 it's kind of confusing to really understand 03:49 the depth of the subject. 03:52 I kind of stand in the same area 03:53 where, you know, I embrace, 03:58 but then at the same time, you know, I'm confused 04:00 as to what it means, you know, am I accepting, 04:02 am I rejecting, or am I loving them as Christ, 04:05 what is it, you know, what does that look like? 04:08 And for me, it also takes a different route 04:11 because I have relatives that are of that community. 04:14 So it's a difficult position to be in. 04:18 But at the same time, you know, I understand, 04:20 you know, the battle between from just listening 04:24 to what they said to me, not understanding them per se 04:27 but understanding what they're saying 04:29 and also the fact that, 04:30 you know, other elements are contributing to it. 04:32 So it's a difficult stance. I can't say, you know... 04:37 I can't pinpoint exactly where I go with that situation, 04:42 but I mean, I love my family, 04:45 so I'm not going to reject them, 04:47 you know what I mean. 04:49 It's a difficult transition to understand. 04:52 Okay. I too can resonate with Xavier. 04:56 It's difficult to condemn someone 04:59 or speak or think ill of them, 05:02 you know, in that community when someone that you know, 05:06 someone you're close to has that, 05:11 you know, or identifies with that community. 05:15 And while I don't understand it all, 05:19 that doesn't necessarily mean that I, 05:22 you know, agree with everything 05:25 or that I disagree with everything. 05:27 So I think it's... 05:28 And then as time passes, as Brittany said, 05:31 more comes out and you learn more. 05:34 So I think that, you know, it definitely is something 05:37 we need to talk about and see what our position is 05:40 because it's a difficult topic. 05:43 Yeah, and I guess, for me... 05:45 And I'll get to Kory next, you know, 05:46 I just kind of have felt very ignorant about it. 05:50 I don't know too much about it. 05:51 I can say I don't have anyone in my family 05:53 who's in that community. 05:54 I have been kind of unsure of really what to say about it 05:58 because as a pastor, you know, there are things 05:59 that you're supposed to be able to say and not say. 06:01 And, you know, I want to be able to just preach 06:03 what I see the Bible speaking and saying. 06:06 And so, you know, it is very confusing 06:08 for me as well to understand. 06:10 But I think for me I try to be as sympathetic 06:13 and empathetic as I can 06:14 because I know that I too struggle 06:16 with things as well 06:17 especially in the sexual nature. 06:19 And maybe have in turn identified 06:24 or found a new way to identify myself 06:25 just to justify things that I do, you know. 06:28 So, you know, it's a very slippery slope 06:31 and touchy subject, 06:33 but I just really want to ultimately 06:34 really want to learn more, you know, about it. 06:38 My guess I would have to say, 06:40 I'm not pro-homosexual, not anti-homosexual. 06:45 I'm pro-Christ. 06:46 I don't know if that sounds too cliched. 06:49 And the Christ I know is a God of love. 06:52 If I could just quote some of the things He said, 06:54 you know, the healthy are not in need of a physician. 06:58 I have not come to condemn but to seek and save the lost. 07:01 And I do believe that this community falls 07:04 into the same category that we all fall into. 07:06 You know, as the Bible says, we've all come short 07:09 and we've all sinned. 07:10 And so we're all in need of salvation, 07:13 whether we know it or not, 07:14 you know, we're all in need of salvation. 07:16 I, you know, even with that said, 07:17 I may be a little fearful of it, 07:19 you know, my culture, my background 07:21 is not very friendly towards that community. 07:24 I mean, so you are a little fearful of it, 07:26 you know, especially as a heterosexual man, 07:28 you know, I'm going to eventually have 07:29 to send my children to schools knowing that 07:31 some of the teachers may be homosexual. 07:32 And, you know, as much as you don't condemn, 07:35 you know, people necessarily, you know, you still don't want 07:38 your children to pick up that lifestyle. 07:40 It's also a little, it's a little scary as well. 07:43 So we definitely have some issues in some respects 07:47 and some confusion that we're working through. 07:51 And also I think in general most of us 07:54 would have been taught or at least believe that, 07:57 you know, the lifestyle is not 07:58 what has been condoned in the Bible. 08:01 And this is the type of language 08:02 that we speak and say in terms of it being a sin 08:05 and that it seems from what I experienced has caused 08:09 that community to feel 08:10 a little bit of resentment towards 08:12 those type of statements, you know. 08:14 So let's just, before we go into the biblical stance, 08:17 let's talk about how do you think they feel, 08:22 that community feels about how the church 08:25 has been addressing their community? 08:29 Oh, isolated. 08:30 You know, rejected because we want 08:32 to present a message of love 08:34 but our own fears and insecurities and ignorance 08:39 presents a message of hate of if you don't change, 08:42 you're going to hell. 08:44 When in reality that's, you know, that's all of us, 08:46 if we don't change, if we don't get better, 08:48 we're all going to hell. 08:49 You know, and I think that's, you know, where a lot of times 08:53 where the church message, where it stands, 08:56 it's a message of condemnation rather than, 08:58 you know, let us reason together, 09:00 let us come together, you know. 09:02 It's a message of fear. It's a fear-driven message. 09:06 Someone wants to add to that? How do they feel? 09:08 To probably add to what Xavier was saying about 09:11 isolation, feeling rejected, when we think about everything 09:14 that we say in our church not only the scriptures 09:18 that we use say that's against homosexuality 09:21 are statements of in the garden, 09:24 God created Adam and Eve, man and woman, 09:27 for them to be fruitful and multiply. 09:30 This community commented like 09:31 "Well, we can't really be fruitful and multiply. 09:33 So how do we fit into this?" 09:35 Or even when we talk about Ephesians and about the family, 09:39 husband and wife, 09:40 and all those statements that were made, 09:43 "Okay, so how do I fit into this? 09:44 How does that work out for me?" 09:46 They come into our church or even being raised 09:50 in our churches, trying to figure out, 09:52 okay, this is how I'm feeling. 09:54 I love this person or I really like this person. 09:57 But the Bible doesn't really give 09:59 any stipulations for me. 10:00 And I guess that's why we had that situation where 10:03 some members of the community created 10:05 a Bible about Adam and Steve 10:07 all of a sudden trying to figure out 10:09 where does exactly God have for me in this place. 10:14 That's one of the huge issues. 10:17 I think a good word to use is lost. 10:20 You know, they may feel lost. There's just no place for them. 10:22 And I can't say I feel that 10:24 I don't know exactly how they feel, 10:26 you know, but I can say I kind of know 10:27 how they feel as a young pastor 10:29 who is just different than everybody, 10:31 and this is inside the church. 10:32 Sometimes I feel lost. 10:34 You know, so I can understand... 10:35 Sometimes as a black man, I feel lost as well 10:38 and just in the outside world. 10:40 But I do believe they feel lost and that's whether or not 10:43 they are practicing inside or outside the church. 10:46 I think even the people who are outside, 10:48 well, now society has kind of made 10:49 a little bit more leeway for this community. 10:52 But I do believe that it's still easy to feel lost. 10:55 You know. Sure. Sure. 10:57 Oh, go ahead, Brittany, add some more. 10:58 Oh, if I could add more to what Kory was saying, 11:00 that whole lost aspect, 11:02 speaking to some of my closest friends 11:05 who are gay, 11:07 they consider themselves lesbians or homosexual. 11:11 The issue of when you're talking to loved ones 11:15 and they don't fully understand and there are so many myths 11:19 that are going around about this community, 11:21 about how if you're near them 11:23 you might catch it like it's a disease, 11:26 and feeling that rejection so many different levels 11:29 because you want to come to your parents and feel loved. 11:32 But they don't know exactly what you're going through. 11:35 So they reject you based on things that are not even true. 11:38 And some of my friends are still... 11:40 They don't really fully understand everything 11:42 that's going on as a homosexual. 11:44 That's what they're identifying themselves as. 11:47 And even the different spectrums 11:48 of not every homosexual is sexually active, 11:51 but yet, it's assumed that they all are, 11:53 and trying to deal with all those different myths 11:56 and stereotypes and biases is really hard 11:59 to try to figure out who you really are. 12:02 And I tried sometimes to see how it would be to have 12:05 someone say to me my very identity 12:07 what I feel that I am, 12:09 who I am is not true and it's not right, 12:12 it's not how I should feel, it's not who I should be. 12:15 You know, those are the kind of feelings 12:18 that they would have, I mean, you know, 12:20 so you're threatening who I am, you know. 12:23 So, you know, when we speak about it, 12:25 you know, we have to take that into account 12:27 of how we are addressing the individual separate 12:31 from really what we feel is incorrect 12:34 or unbiblical according to God's Word. 12:37 So let's transition then into those things. 12:39 Let's talk about what does the Bible say 12:42 or even what does God say 12:45 and some direction that we can find to, 12:49 "Is this the lifestyle that we are supposed to be living?" 12:53 Who wants to start? 12:55 Well, the Bible is pretty clear, 12:57 you know, scripturally it's pretty clear 12:59 that God is not really a fan of homosexuality. 13:04 I don't know if we can say that 13:06 He's not a fan of the community, 13:07 but He's pretty clear. 13:09 First, I would start with, you know, all have sinned 13:10 and come short. 13:12 I have to classify, you know, just the orientation... 13:15 Or not the orientation really, the act, 13:17 you know, in the orientation as sin 13:19 as well as verses like Romans 1:24 13:21 let us know that, you know, God has given us all over 13:24 because of our nature, He's allowed for us to, 13:28 you know, make our own choices, you know. 13:30 And so to some respect, 13:33 well, you know, not to some respect, 13:34 but the Bible is clear that in giving us over 13:36 some of the things we go after is sexual immorality, you know. 13:40 And I don't want anybody to be confused. 13:42 You know, sexual immorality is not just homosexuality, 13:44 you know, it's also fornication 13:46 between heterosexuals, you know, so... 13:49 But the Bible is pretty clear. Yeah. 13:50 Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. 13:53 And fornication is the sin, you know. 13:56 Let's make that clear, you know, we're not... 13:59 No, we don't know what happens behind closed doors, 14:01 but it's between you and God to know that, 14:04 you know, when you have sex outside of marriage, 14:06 which is between a man and a woman, 14:08 in the biblical stance, that is considered, 14:11 you know, fornication and that is considered 14:13 something that God is not pleased with. 14:16 What are some other things, 14:17 biblical parameters that we can use 14:18 because there are a lot of texts in the Bible 14:20 that we quote that 14:22 many who have taken those same verses 14:24 and said that's not what was originally intended 14:25 for those verses to mean, you know, we have to read, 14:28 classify them, look at the context, you know, 14:31 and say, you know, you're using that verse against me, 14:34 that verse is taken out of context, you know. 14:36 And if I can just say really quickly 14:38 because Kory started with the Bible is clear, 14:41 and then you're saying now 14:43 that people take text and use them out of context. 14:47 So I think that's something that also needs to be addressed 14:50 because, you know, I can look at a text 14:53 and read it and walk away with a meaning. 14:56 Brittany can walk away with a different meaning. 14:58 And that's when, you know, the Holy Spirit 15:01 I would say is not leading in interpretation. 15:04 And so we need to be careful with, 15:07 you know, just taking a text 15:09 and fitting it to our preference. 15:14 And I think that happens, 15:16 I'm not saying it happens with everyone. 15:18 But I think that definitely happens 15:20 where we take texts or we take stories 15:23 or we take instances 15:24 and fit them according to our preference. 15:27 Yeah. We do that a lot. 15:28 And I know in theology school, we're taught to come 15:30 to the Bible and study 15:32 and to try to take away all of your predispositions, 15:34 all of your worldviews and just come to it 15:36 in the purest form. 15:37 And that's pretty much impossible to do that, 15:39 you know. 15:40 But you have to look at the text 15:42 and let the Spirit, you know, lead you in guiding you. 15:45 And I think I want to say this right here as well that, 15:47 you know, sexual sins are very different than other sins. 15:52 And according to the Bible, you know, Paul talked 15:54 in the 1 Corinthians 6 that there are sins 15:56 that are done outside the body 15:57 and there are sins that are done to the body. 16:00 And so, you know, these are serious things 16:01 because ultimately he says 16:03 it will affect the Holy Spirit speaking to you 16:05 and affect your connection. 16:07 So I think this is important for us 16:09 to really dive into this. 16:10 I want you all to go a little deeper into 16:11 what are the ramifications if you do not follow 16:16 what God is saying for you to do in His Word. 16:20 I kind of want to add something because it seems like 16:23 we're automatically assuming that every person that is... 16:27 Is Christian. 16:29 Probably not only that, everybody is not Christian. 16:31 But the element of, okay, are we saying that 16:35 just having the feelings makes me be condemned? 16:38 Like, okay, I am looking at this person of the same sex. 16:43 And I'm not sure what's happening in my body 16:46 or maybe I'm not having anything reacting in my body, 16:49 like for the asexuals, 16:51 they're looking at different people 16:52 whether it's male or female. 16:55 And they have no response sexually. 16:57 Are you saying that I am at odds? 16:59 Or what if I think I was supposed to be a man 17:02 but I'm a woman, are you saying my feelings is what is a sin? 17:07 Or are you saying if I take it to the next step 17:10 and move forward to okay, I am going to try to be a man, 17:14 is trying to be a man 17:15 when I was born as a female a sin? 17:17 Those are the questions that 17:19 we don't really answer in our church, 17:22 we just automatically assume, yes, 17:24 if you say you're homosexual, 17:26 that means you have slept with maybe 25 people, 17:29 so you are really condemned. 17:31 But the reality is, they probably just might be 17:32 sitting down trying to figure out the feelings 17:34 and questioning God, do you hate me 17:36 because I have these feelings? Yeah, yeah. 17:38 So let's talk about the principles in God's Word 17:41 that we can use to answer some of these questions. 17:43 It was very valid questions that you just read. 17:46 Well, just real quick before Xavier, 17:48 that Professor Xavier... 17:50 You know, I always tell my wife expressly when, you know, 17:53 we have heated moments, we cannot help the way we feel. 17:57 You cannot help the way you feel. 17:59 There's nothing you can do. 18:01 When somebody cuts me off in the traffic, I feel angry. 18:04 I don't turn that on. I don't decide to get angry. 18:07 I just feel that way, you know. 18:09 And the thing about it is 18:11 depends on your original predisposition. 18:13 I believe that the world was perfect 18:16 and so that our orientation was towards God 18:18 but with sin, you know, our feelings become distorted. 18:22 You know what I'm saying. 18:23 I mean, there's always that question about 18:25 why you born homosexual or you made homosexual. 18:26 And I believe that just as you can be born 18:29 with a propensity towards alcohol, 18:31 towards lying like I have a cousin that just lies. 18:35 And I don't know why she lies 18:37 but it's like it's just in her to do it, you know. 18:40 And I do believe that you could be born 18:41 with certain feelings, with certain dispositions like, 18:44 you know, all of a sudden, 18:46 you're attracted to the opposite sex, 18:47 then that didn't make you homosexual. 18:49 Sin, I mean, there is the sin problem 18:52 that God has done everything to control 18:55 in the death of Christ and resurrection. 18:57 But then there's also the acting upon, 18:59 you know, those feelings that that God considers 19:01 the actual sins that you commit 19:03 that kind of separates you from Him. 19:05 And so the feelings don't make you bad. 19:07 It's acting on those feelings. 19:09 You know, you don't go to jail for thinking about, 19:12 you know, being so mad you think about 19:13 killing someone, you go to jail 19:15 for actually killing someone, you know. 19:17 So well, I was going to challenge that but... 19:21 You know, your thoughts and your mind, 19:23 God talks with us, the root is really 19:25 what you're thinking about. 19:26 You know, how would you argue that if I'm thinking about 19:30 I hate you guys is just as bad as if I, 19:32 you know, went ahead and killed them so... 19:35 But that's something that you can discuss. 19:37 But I don't think it's quite taking 19:39 what Brittany said, 19:41 I don't think it's gotten to that point 19:42 where you're saying I hate you. 19:44 Remember, she said the person feels this way 19:47 and they're trying to balance what's going on inside. 19:51 It's not, "I feel this way. Therefore I am. I know I am." 19:56 It's, "I feel this way. What's going on? 19:59 What do I do about it?" 20:01 So I don't think we can classify it 20:03 as the actual act as, you know, 20:05 that the text says there in your mind, you know. 20:07 So they are trying to weigh it I think. 20:10 Professor X. 20:11 I think too, we have to remember that 20:13 the Bible clearly says we're all shaped in iniquity. 20:16 As a result of sin we're going to be born, 20:19 you know, that's where you get down syndrome, 20:21 that's where you get other things 20:22 that happen as a result. 20:24 Not saying that those people are sinful 20:26 but because sin happened, our bodies are changed 20:29 and our physiological areas are change, 20:33 you know or we produce things can happen we run into risks. 20:37 Not saying that they're born that way 20:38 because even the scientific community 20:40 as we like to call the "pagan scientific community" 20:43 agrees that the fact that they have yet 20:44 to find a gene that says, you know, 20:46 "You're born a homosexual, asexual, intersexual." 20:48 You know, a lot of these things are... 20:51 if you really look down the road, 20:53 a lot these things come from issues stemmed from the past. 20:56 Deep down, you know, they agreed that 20:58 is a nature versus nurture issue. 21:01 You know, there are so many different areas 21:04 and the Bible was very clear. 21:06 You know, the issue that I have is 21:09 I want to learn how to love, you know. 21:12 But the Bible clearly condemns me and everybody else. 21:15 You know, we've all fall short of the glory of God. 21:18 But, you know, do I, 21:21 me as a heterosexual male who's, you know, 21:25 had multiple partners in the past, 21:27 do I settle for the fact that 21:29 do I continue in what I know is wrong? 21:33 Or do I even know it's wrong? You know, am I accepting? 21:36 And that's the issue, you know, I hate to put it this way 21:40 because I love my God, I love the Bible 21:42 but sin has done so much of a distortion 21:44 that we've turned it into... 21:46 It's more of a psychological issue 21:47 where we refuse to accept what's in front of us. 21:51 We refused to accept the fact that, you know, 21:53 "I feel good, it feels good. I live this way." 21:56 You're saying no. I'm saying yes. 21:58 It's like a child, you know, you touch... 21:59 "Don't touch that." They go and touch it. 22:02 You know, it's complete rebellion. 22:04 Even the Bible says that, you know, 22:06 everything that is not of God is rebellion against God. 22:09 And just something that seems right to you. 22:12 We trust our own feelings ultimately the Bible says 22:13 it's going to lead to destruction. 22:15 So let's be careful with that. 22:17 But you said something about falling short, 22:19 you know, do we really... 22:21 You know, if I'm in this community, 22:23 do I really feel that I have fallen 22:24 short of the glory of God, you know, can we just make sure 22:27 that's clear how do we feel or what does the Bible say 22:33 in terms of is having sexual relations 22:38 outside of a heterosexual marriage 22:40 is that considered as sin in the Bible. 22:43 Yeah. Oh, yeah. 22:44 Let's make it clear. 22:46 Lay that foundation, marriage is meant for... 22:48 I mean, sex is meant for marriage, period. 22:53 You know, sex was made by God. 22:54 I mean, so we assume that everybody believes in God, 22:57 you know, but as a believers, as a Christian, 23:00 and you know as a Christian struggling homosexuality 23:02 even before you get to the orientation question, 23:05 sex is meant for marriage. 23:06 Okay, and I say that because there's obviously 23:07 a debate some that 23:09 that is not considered to be totally true. 23:11 And then my question from that is 23:13 if we believe that is true according to God's Word 23:15 and what he says, 23:16 does God change His mind down the line 23:18 and say, you know what, because of the environment 23:21 because of the society 23:23 it is now permissible for you to do. 23:25 The thing with that is again and kind of jumping off that. 23:28 You know, we now open the door to say, 23:30 "Well, since they're having sex outside..." 23:32 Or people having sex outside of marriage, 23:34 you know, if we get married, 23:35 if you're a homosexual, then get married. 23:38 You know, we're saying that then. 23:40 And my thing is that we need to really look 23:42 at the Word of God 23:43 'cause we love to twist principles into doctrines. 23:48 You know, there's a lot of principles 23:49 in the Word of God that are for us 23:51 to physically help us because physically, 23:55 you know, for example, the health message, 23:57 you know, promiscuous, all these things 23:59 if you really look at the consequences behind it, 24:03 results in detriment to damages to your body, 24:06 to your health not just spiritual but physical, 24:08 you know. 24:09 That's one of the reasons why, 24:11 you know, God condemns homosexuality. 24:15 It goes against not just spiritual 24:18 but it goes against your physical nature, 24:20 the way your body is built. 24:22 That's a good point to make, you know, a lot of times 24:24 people use the arguments of the Old Testament, 24:26 "Laws are done away with. 24:27 These are things that God wrote specifically towards the Jews." 24:31 But every single one of those laws 24:32 no matter what they are 24:34 whether it's cutting of your beard or if it's, 24:35 you know, wearing certain clothing, 24:37 they all had a specific God brought them, 24:39 and said them for a specific reason 24:41 and a principle that He was trying to bring out 24:42 that is still applicable today, you know. 24:44 I mean, you know, the health message, 24:46 you know, it's still applicable today. 24:47 I mean, there are things that He wrote 24:49 that were for your good he says, 24:51 you know, these are things I'm writing to you 24:52 that you may live and not die. 24:55 And so, you know, that's a good point 24:56 to bring out. 24:57 Let's go to... 24:59 Korey, really got up ready, 25:00 this is a hot discussion, go ahead. 25:02 I think that where the church falls short is that 25:04 we really don't understand sin 25:06 and we really don't understand the grace of God. 25:08 We really don't. 25:09 And I think the problem, the reason why we have an issue 25:11 dealing with the homosexual community 25:13 because we don't understand the grace 25:15 that God has given us. 25:16 You know, some of us are so busy working 25:18 so hard for our own salvation 25:21 even though God has already said 25:22 I've set you free, 25:23 that when someone else comes with a more egregious sins, 25:26 you know, we are like "Well, we don't know 25:28 if, you know, 'cause listen it's a struggle for me. 25:31 And I'm, you know, every day I'm fighting just a lie. 25:33 You know, I don't know how you're going to fight 25:35 this homosexual thing, you know." 25:36 And then we also treat the grace of God 25:39 as something that needs to happen 25:41 before you come to God. 25:43 You know, as if we need you to erase 25:45 your whole sexual orientation before you come to God, 25:47 you know, as a pastor, these things, 25:49 I still struggle with. 25:50 You know, not that I give myself over to, 25:52 but I acknowledge it, and I say, 25:53 "God, I need you to do a work in me." 25:55 You know, we will present the gospel in a way that says 25:57 listen God does not... 25:59 He don't want you to change to come, 26:00 He's telling you if you come, you will change. 26:03 Amen. Powerful. Brittany? 26:04 And I would say the beautiful thing about the Bible 26:06 is from Genesis to Revelation, it's very universal. 26:09 As in whatever it says, even if they tear apart 26:13 every homosexual text, the other passages that say, 26:17 "Okay, they're always talking about male and female. 26:19 You never see an occurrence of male and male 26:21 or female and female." 26:22 It's very universal in aspect and as they can 26:24 as you were saying, "Come to me." 26:27 Jesus God has always said come to me. 26:30 But yet, every single time we're trying to tell people, 26:33 "No, you need to go and do this." 26:34 In one situation that told a guy, 26:36 "Well, if you change your clothes 26:38 and you dress more like a man 26:39 then maybe you would not have homosexual feelings." 26:42 No, it's not about changing who you are. 26:44 It's about going to God build a relationship with Him first, 26:48 we need to allow this entire community 26:50 to go to God primarily 26:53 instead of trying to tell them what we feel 26:55 'cause we don't fully understand 26:56 exactly what everything involves. 26:58 Right. 27:00 You know, in the Bible it says, "As it was in the days of Noah 27:04 so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man." 27:08 And Noah had a message, Jesus is coming. 27:14 We have a message, Jesus is coming. 27:17 He preached that message with enthusiasm. 27:20 He preached it with fervency, he preached it with love. 27:24 And God gave the people a chance to come. 27:27 And that's what we need to do. All right. 27:30 Well, we have to end it there unfortunately. 27:32 This is a hard discussion we didn't even get into 27:34 all we want to talk about, there's so much more 27:36 but hopefully, there's some things 27:38 you can discuss and your own youth groups 27:40 and talk about with your family, your friends 27:42 because we really need to discuss this 27:44 and be truly loving to every single community. 27:47 So I thank you all for the discussion, 27:48 it's very good, very educational as well. 27:52 Thank you for tuning in. 27:54 But remember at the end of the day 27:56 to always make pure choices. 27:58 God bless you, until next time. |
Revised 2018-01-18