Participants: Wayne Blakely (Host), Danielle Harrison
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000122A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices. 00:41 I'm Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministries. 00:42 And today, 00:44 I'm speaking with my colleague Danielle Harrison. 00:47 Hi, Danielle. Hi, Wayne. 00:48 Thanks for being here today. 00:50 Thank you. 00:51 Hey, you know, after hearing your testimony, 00:55 I think that I'd like to ask you some questions, 00:57 some follow-up questions 00:59 that are probably pivotal in your experience today. 01:03 As you've experienced lasting victory 01:07 over previous things that have held you, 01:11 sin that has held you, 01:13 what do you think has been the real change 01:15 that brought about, you know, this experience for you? 01:20 You know, Wayne, I've noticed when I look back 01:23 and I've reviewed the changes 01:24 that have taken place in my life, 01:26 it's become evident to me 01:28 that the significant changes really came as a result 01:32 of a change of perspective for me, 01:35 and that change of perspective 01:37 wasn't just general change of perspective. 01:39 I really had to come to see things 01:42 from God's perspective. 01:44 So any time in my life 01:45 where my mind was illuminated 01:48 to God's perspective on a certain topic, 01:51 that was what really helped to make the shift in my heart 01:55 and mind to have a desire 01:57 to want to walk away from the direction 02:00 that I had been going and turn and start walking 02:03 with God into a new direction. 02:05 And as that was happening, 02:08 you know, of course, I have to make a surrender, 02:11 you know, at that point, 02:13 I have to be willing to let go of the stronghold 02:17 that I have had on these things that I think complete me 02:22 and fulfill me and give me direction and purpose in life, 02:25 be willing to let them go and surrender them to God 02:28 and trust specifically 02:32 that he has something better in store for me 02:34 in exchange for those things that I've been holding on to. 02:38 And I think something that's especially important to mention 02:43 when I'm saying that, I have to let those things go, 02:46 I also have to acknowledge the fact 02:48 that I have not the power 02:51 to be able to let those things go. 02:53 I don't have the power to walk in a new direction 02:57 because I am married to my sorrow, 03:00 I am married to my sin as much as I don't want it, 03:03 and even when I see it for what it is, 03:05 there is something that... 03:08 there's just that weakness in me 03:09 that does not allow me to let go. 03:11 And so as much as I have to surrender that thing, 03:13 I also have to just cling to the promise 03:17 in Philippians 2:13 where it says, 03:19 "It is God that worketh in you both to will 03:23 and to do of his good pleasure." 03:25 So it's a gift from Him to come to the place where I want to do 03:29 what pleases Him, 03:30 and it's also a gift to be able to do the things 03:32 that please Him. 03:34 Wow. 03:35 You know, I'm thinking about, back on my work history, 03:38 and like my colleagues, and co-workers, 03:42 and whenever somebody introduced change, 03:45 it was like, "Oh, no," you know, 03:47 and there was all kinds of backtalk and resistance, 03:50 and "We don't wanna do that, it's not gonna be right. 03:53 And it's gonna be too hard to get used to." 03:54 And so when change comes into your life, 03:58 it's a real interruption. 03:59 Yeah. 04:01 I'm wondering how do your thoughts 04:03 and feelings play into this. 04:04 Sure. 04:06 Well, thoughts and feelings are probably the biggest challenge 04:11 in moving away and moving in that new direction. 04:13 And I've had to realize that I have to completely distrust 04:17 my feelings and even my thoughts. 04:19 There are a lot of thoughts that come into my mind 04:21 and I know they're not in harmony 04:23 with the expressed will of God. 04:25 I know they're not in harmony 04:26 with the direction that I want ahead. 04:28 And so when that happens, I have to deny that thought. 04:34 You know, if it's against the expressed will of God, 04:37 we can know that it's not inspired of God 04:40 and that obviously 04:42 it's inspired by the spirit of Satan. 04:43 And so I can say, that's not my thought, 04:46 I'm not going to choose to own that thought, 04:48 to dwell on that thought, to accept that thought. 04:50 I'm gonna say, "You know, this is from the enemy 04:52 and I refuse to..." 04:54 That's hard to do sometimes. It is. Yeah. 04:56 It is really hard, but when I've... 04:59 I think that when I've externalized it 05:02 and I haven't owned it as my own thought 05:05 and just said, "No, this is inspired by the enemy," 05:08 it's easier to push away 05:10 because it's not something I have to take ownership of. 05:12 And so then, you know, that helps me to realize 05:16 that I can push that thing away 05:19 and it's not something that has to be personal to me 05:21 and remain personal to me. 05:23 I know that you've expressed a couple of object lessons 05:28 that demonstrate, you know, surrender in Christ. 05:31 I'm wondering if you might share those with us. 05:34 Sure. 05:35 Well, I think the first object lesson 05:37 that became prominent to me 05:38 even before I became a Christian 05:40 was observing the transformation 05:43 of the metamorphosis of a butterfly. 05:45 You know, it being that lowly worm 05:48 that creeps on the ground 05:50 and then going into this chrysalis phase 05:53 and then becoming a butterfly. 05:55 And, you know, when I think about the chrysalis, 05:59 that space where it has to be still, 06:03 it has to just be inactive there 06:05 and it has to be still and know who God is. 06:09 And I think the first part that really is important 06:12 in that caterpillar's metamorphosis 06:15 is that it has to submit to the change 06:18 that God is gonna bring forth in it. 06:20 And it spins that little tuft of silk 06:24 and it anchors itself to that tuft of silk 06:26 and then it lays back. 06:28 And I think that just very clearly illustrates 06:30 that surrender that I was talking about. 06:32 And then in the place of stillness, 06:34 God brings forth that transformation 06:36 and then it emerges as this beautiful new creature 06:41 because if any man be in Christ, 06:43 he is a new creature. 06:44 Old things are passed away and all things have become new. 06:47 So the metamorphosis of the butterfly 06:49 has been the biggest thing for me. 06:52 And as I started working out on a farm 06:55 and working with seeds 06:56 and watching the plants sprout and grow, 07:01 the farmer came in and he started talking to me 07:03 about what was happening with that seed 07:06 and he was saying that inside a seed 07:09 it has a certain amount of intrinsic energy, 07:13 natural energy, 07:14 that's contained within that seed. 07:15 And when water is poured onto the seed, 07:19 it activates that seed to start using that energy 07:24 to create the first sprout, the root, 07:27 the stem, and the first two leaves, 07:28 which are called the cotyledons. 07:31 And so the cotyledons come out above the soil 07:37 and then the plant begins to use photosynthesis 07:41 to continue to grow. 07:43 But up until that point, 07:44 it uses up all of the intrinsic energy 07:47 with inside of that, 100% of that energy is used up 07:49 to just create that first sprout. 07:51 And as he was explaining that to me, 07:54 I really saw a spiritual application, 07:56 here I am and, you know, 07:58 kind of a new age spiritual mindset. 08:00 But I started to realize, you know, 08:02 it takes all of the intrinsic energy within me 08:07 to reach away from self, 08:09 and as Christ started to come into the picture 08:11 and I started to understand Christ, 08:12 you know, it takes everything, 08:15 dying to self completely to reach away from self 08:18 and to reach above the earth 08:21 and to put my hands up in that surrender position. 08:25 But once my two little cotyledons, 08:28 if they were, come above the soil, 08:31 then I start to receive all of the energy 08:33 that I need from the sunlight, the Son of God, 08:36 to give me all of the strength that I need to grow 08:38 and continue to flourish in the right direction, so... 08:41 That's a great analogy. Amen. 08:45 You know, when you're in the process 08:48 of making a change, 08:50 and I make this applicable to myself 08:52 because a lot of change has taking place in my life, 08:55 but it's interesting to talk to other people 08:58 about what this is like when you're breaking a habit 09:02 or when this change comes about, 09:04 your feelings are intrinsic to the past, 09:07 you know, and so you got a feeling or an urge, 09:11 let's say someone's been previously has historically 09:15 indulged in pornography, 09:17 and so the adrenaline runs, 09:20 the call for embracing in the habit is there, 09:24 your thoughts, your feelings are all charged up. 09:28 How do you deal with that? Sure. 09:31 Well, you know, I think that 09:33 just as much as we have to make that surrender 09:35 and make that commitment to God, 09:38 when we come to see from His perspective, 09:40 the conviction comes in 09:41 and we realize we need to make that change, 09:44 that surrender needs to happen 09:46 not just that first time, 09:50 it has to happen again and again and again, 09:53 every time that trigger comes in. 09:55 You know, whatever it is that triggers you 09:57 to want to turn back to that thing 09:59 that you've been addicted to or you've been relying on, 10:02 every time that trigger comes, you have to turn back to God, 10:06 turn back to His promises and believe 10:09 that you are a new creature and set your mind back on God. 10:13 So, you know, whether it's an enticing idea, 10:16 or a situation, or some kind of an emotion, 10:19 or maybe some sensory input that comes into your mind, 10:22 you know, whatever it is that triggers you, 10:24 you have to recommit in your heart 10:27 and repurpose your life right then. 10:29 You know, that you're going to... 10:31 That you're gonna stay with Christ. 10:32 Yeah. You know, that you're gonna walk with Him. 10:35 To me, I just thought about it, 10:36 it must be kind of like when you adopt a child, 10:38 you don't first think of it as the child 10:40 because you didn't give birth to it, 10:42 but as you begin to spend more and more time with that child 10:46 and adapt them to your environment, 10:49 they belong to you, it becomes natural, 10:51 becomes yours. 10:54 And so it's kind of like the same 10:56 when you're making a new pattern in your life. 10:59 At some point, the new pattern becomes natural 11:02 and you totally own it. 11:03 What are the brain mechanics like when this is going on? 11:07 Sure. 11:08 You know, I think that this is something 11:10 that was really profound for me 11:13 that helped to really establish me in victory. 11:19 When I started to understand the mechanics of the brain 11:22 and how the mind really works, 11:26 you know, the neural pathways that are within our brains, 11:29 these are the pathways in which the neurons fire 11:34 and that's how habits are formed. 11:37 This was supposed to be a beneficial process for us 11:39 as the neurons would fire in this series 11:44 and we could create healthy habits, 11:46 but of course, just like anything else, 11:48 the enemy tries to come in 11:50 and take what God has intended for something good 11:53 and for something beautiful and use it to his advantage, 11:57 and so the enemy has come in and he's sown terrors, right? 12:01 And so we start developing these bad habits. 12:04 And as they've actually studied the way 12:09 that the brain has worked, 12:11 they found that these neural pathways, 12:14 these neural processes, 12:16 they work just the same way that your muscles do. 12:19 So if you go to the gym 12:21 and you're working out every time 12:23 that you lift that weight, 12:25 every time that you use that muscle, 12:27 it strengthens that muscle. 12:29 And it's just the same way with your neural pathways. 12:32 This is how these habits are formed. 12:35 But just the way that with exercise 12:38 they are strengthened, 12:40 the same is true in the opposite direction. 12:43 So as you discontinue the use of those neural pathways, 12:47 as you're no longer using them, 12:49 then it's just like if you stop going to the gym, 12:52 you don't keep those muscles that you've built up. 12:55 Slowly your muscles dwindle and, you know, 12:58 especially if someone is bedridden 12:59 or something we see that to the extremely effect, 13:02 your muscles begin to atrophy 13:05 and eventually the tissue starts to die away 13:07 if you're not using those muscles at all. 13:10 And so this is what happens with your brain. 13:13 If you discontinue those old thought processes, 13:18 then those neural pathways become weaker and weaker 13:21 until eventually the neurons, 13:23 those neurons inside of your brain 13:25 eventually begin to atrophy and they will die. 13:28 Your neural pathways will die and pass away 13:31 and so as you're practicing a new habit 13:33 instead of the old one, 13:35 then you're recreating your brain in a sense, 13:39 you know, you're forming new neural pathways in the brain. 13:42 So as I started to consider this 13:46 as it was in relation 13:47 to experiencing victory in my life, 13:51 I really started to pair this with some other knowledge 13:56 that I had gained about how the brain works. 13:58 And that is that the average craving that, 14:02 "I need this thing, I need this. 14:05 I want this," whether it is a cigarette 14:07 or it's some kind of intimate encounter 14:10 or whatever it may be that, 14:12 that addictive drive, 14:14 that screaming voice in your mind that, 14:16 "I need this right now." 14:18 On an average, lasts about three and a half minutes. 14:21 So of course, if it's an average, 14:23 that means that sometimes it's shorter 14:24 and sometimes it's longer. 14:26 But on an average that "I need this thing right now" 14:28 only lasts three and a half minutes. 14:30 So then you have the bit of information 14:34 that a new neural pathway, 14:36 a new habit is formed within the brain 14:38 on an average of 45 days. 14:41 So as I'm putting all of this information 14:43 together in my mind, 14:45 this was pivotal for me 14:47 because I don't have the strength 14:50 to stop doing this thing that I am so addicted to 14:55 that I try to walk away from but I just keep coming back to, 14:58 I just keep falling back into or whatever. 15:01 I don't have the strength to step over that 15:03 and every time I try and I fail, 15:05 every time I try again and fail, 15:08 every time I try harder and fail, 15:11 it's like this sin that I'm trying to overcome 15:14 gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger in my mind 15:17 until it's this mountain that I can never summit, 15:20 I can never overcome, 15:22 and I'll never find myself on the other side of. 15:24 But when I started looking at all of this 15:26 and putting it all together 15:28 and contemplating it and considering it, 15:31 I can't find myself on the other side of that mountain 15:35 on my own, but I can determine 15:39 to spend the next three and a half minutes 15:41 when that temptation comes in with Jesus Christ my Savior. 15:43 Right. 15:45 Now I can turn to Him, I can speak to Him, 15:47 I can focus my mind on faith in His expressed word 15:52 as opposed to my feelings or as opposed to, you know, 15:56 whatever the enemy is whispering 15:57 into my heart and mind. 15:59 And if I make the commitment to turn back to my Christ 16:04 every time it comes in the next 45 days, 16:07 then I will have allowed a new neural pathway 16:12 to form in my brain. 16:13 I'm actually allowing a physical change 16:16 to take place inside of my brain. 16:18 And for me, that is profound because, you know, 16:21 I can actually wrap my mind around that 16:23 and it helps that mountain 16:25 that's been cultivated in my mind 16:27 to come down into a molehill 16:29 that I can actually step over that, 16:30 that I can actually see happening. 16:33 Yeah. 16:34 And then that combined with the faith 16:37 that God promises to provide us 16:41 and gives this extra measures of faith, 16:44 you know, helps us through that process. 16:47 Something we didn't talk a lot about in our series here 16:51 but comes to mind right now is God's grace. 16:56 And that if there is a fall 16:59 or we stumble somewhere along the way, 17:02 Jesus doesn't just say to us, 17:04 "Oh, well, you failed so you're out of here, 17:06 forget it." 17:07 Sometimes we've done that in our church environments, 17:11 we don't believe that, 17:13 "Oh, well, he must not have been 17:14 strong enough to hold on." 17:16 And so that's really too bad 17:17 and we just kind of let them go their way. 17:19 But God's grace is so wonderful that He says, 17:22 you know, if you seek forgiveness, 17:24 I promise you forgiveness, 17:26 and I'm right here to tell you to get back up 17:28 and to move forward 17:30 and we can start this process again. 17:32 Don't give up because I haven't given up on you. 17:34 Amen. 17:36 Have you realized in your experience 17:38 that there are certain things that pull you back 17:42 or into desires maybe of the past. 17:46 Sure. There definitely are. 17:49 There are certain things 17:50 that bring my mind on to the wrong track. 17:55 And I think that's one of the things 17:57 that I've really had to practice, 18:00 and I'm still on the journey of that, 18:01 it's a daily battle, 18:04 and it's something I'm still really praying about. 18:06 I think it's a lifelong process. 18:08 Yeah, I'm familiar with it. 18:09 Yeah, of becoming mindful of what's in my mind. 18:15 You know, I think it's really easy for us 18:17 to just go through life 18:19 and allow ourselves to let our minds run 18:22 wherever they want. 18:24 And my mind just goes off into all of these, 18:28 you know, it goes off on a tangent, 18:30 goes into a conversation, 18:31 a make-believe conversation with someone 18:33 that it will never happen. 18:35 You know, I... 18:38 Something that was really hard for me 18:39 was getting out of the habit of singing the worldly songs 18:44 that had been in my life from before, 18:46 you know, whenever I was coming into the fold, 18:51 well, before I was coming into the fold, 18:52 I was a walking jukebox. 18:54 Everything that someone would say 18:56 or every experience that I was in would prompt 18:58 a memory of a song 19:00 or a movie quote or something 19:01 and I was just constantly rambling off words 19:04 that weren't my own, 19:05 so I had to become mindful of where my thoughts were going. 19:08 And recently, the Lord showed me 19:10 this image of my mind 19:14 being like an untrained horse. 19:17 You know, an unbridled horse that has never been trained 19:20 and has never been ridden all of its life. 19:23 If you try to get on a wild horse, 19:26 it's a pretty intense experience. 19:29 And God was showing me that I've never bridled my mind. 19:34 I've never allowed Him to bridle my mind 19:36 and take the reins and lead into a new direction. 19:39 And as I was thinking about that that morning I just said, 19:43 "Okay, Lord, I don't know 19:44 how to take control of my thoughts 19:46 that are so out of control." 19:48 And I just saw in my mind, 19:51 you know, turning the reins over to God 19:53 and Him taking the reins and allowing to redirect me 19:57 when I am turning to the right or to the left 19:59 and get me back onto the right path. 20:01 So, Danielle, why wouldn't you just turn on the radio 20:03 like everybody else 20:04 and play it when you're in the car 20:06 and roll down the road, 20:07 I mean, you go to church, 20:09 you know, and you're studying the Bible 20:11 in the morning and stuff. 20:12 This is just music, 20:13 so why wouldn't you just roll with it? 20:17 You know, Wayne, I've just come to understand 20:20 how much music really has an impact on the way 20:24 that I think, the way that I view spirituality, 20:28 and life, and God, and everything, you know. 20:32 And it's not only the lyrics of the songs. 20:36 When I first started to come into being a Christian, 20:39 I started to realize the words of the songs 20:41 were not in harmony with what I wanted, 20:44 but I started to realize also that 20:46 there can be elements of the music itself 20:50 that can excite me into a certain mindset or, 20:56 you know, even just be repetitive 20:58 and kind of put me into this not really wanting to think, 21:01 almost hypnotized kind of state of a mind. 21:03 It has a purpose and a design, 21:05 and I think the people don't always recognize 21:08 what goes in the planning of a song sometimes 21:11 because artists sometimes have a motive at hand 21:14 that they want the audience 21:16 or the listener to respond a certain way. 21:18 Mm-hm. 21:19 And I know in our ministry that we've kind of adopted something 21:24 that where we hear somebody, 21:26 you know, starting to react to something 21:28 that was part of our past where we used to, 21:31 you know, dance or even have sex, 21:36 you know, to certain music or whatever, 21:38 we stop that person 21:40 because we realize they got momentarily sidetracked 21:43 and we tell them that 21:45 I need to hear a spiritual song out of you 21:47 that will glorify God 21:49 and that actually gets us back on track. 21:50 Amen. 21:52 And it's kind of a fun little game that we play, 21:53 but it has, you know, 21:54 very strong spiritual implications. 21:57 Something that I have recognized, 22:00 and it's taken me a long time to recognize, 22:02 in fact, in the Adventist faith denomination, 22:05 one of the strongholds is the health message. 22:08 Mm-hm. 22:09 Today, the world again has marketed 22:12 just like media does for music, and for theories, 22:18 and thoughts, 22:20 they are after our taste buds as well. 22:21 That's right. 22:23 And they have flooded us 22:25 with all kinds of what we would call junk food 22:29 and even not junk food 22:32 but stuff that we've adapted to, 22:34 my personal favorite, cheese. 22:37 I have a great difficulty in having given that up, 22:41 but recently I really spent some time with God 22:44 and just let Him talk to me, 22:46 and I am convicted that something has to change. 22:51 We hear from the writings in Ellen White has told us 22:56 how our lower passions are, they would be... 23:01 we would have more control over them 23:03 if we had control of our appetite. 23:05 Mm-hm. 23:06 And if we think back to God's original plan 23:10 and design for food, 23:12 it didn't really involve like high-powered flavors, 23:16 preservatives, chemicals, 23:20 heavy intensified oils and sugars 23:23 and things, I mean, I am seeing more and more 23:26 how that is a counterfeit plan to God's original plan. 23:30 Can you tell me a little bit about health? 23:33 Yeah. 23:34 Well, sure, you know, Wayne, 23:36 I think it is interesting that you brought up 23:38 what you did with the cheese thing 23:40 because there was actually a recent scientific study 23:44 that was done that said 23:46 that cheese has an addictive pull on the mind 23:52 and the brain actually, 23:54 cheese has the same effect on the brain 23:56 as certain drugs do. 23:58 Wow. 23:59 When they've introduced cheese into the system 24:02 and they've watched the way that the brain has responded, 24:04 they've seen that it's the same 24:06 as when a person is on hard drugs. 24:08 So, you know, I think that 24:10 there is a certain weight of gravity 24:12 that's happening inside of the brain 24:14 that we don't necessarily consider. 24:16 Right. 24:17 There are other foods that are also stimulating 24:20 as well as cheese, flesh meats, vinegar, spices, 24:24 different things like that, but as far as health goes, 24:27 I think that it doesn't stop at diet. 24:31 Sometimes we just don't even really consider 24:35 how much water we're drinking throughout the day 24:37 and if our brain is not hydrated, 24:40 it's not gonna fire as clearly 24:42 and really the brain is the avenue 24:44 through which we are communicating with God 24:45 and through the willpower, 24:48 you know, to turn to God in those moments of temptation 24:52 instead of just turning back to the sins 24:57 or giving in to the temptations so, 25:00 you know, when I think diet and water as well as exercise. 25:05 Yeah. 25:06 If we have these components in our life 25:09 and we have these things, then we have balanced hormones 25:15 and our stress levels come down 25:18 and it helps us to really be focused on the Lord. 25:22 And I think also an important thing 25:24 to express is temperance 25:26 because it's easy to go off onto either side of the ditch, 25:32 you know, so we have to... 25:34 I know people who have exercise addictions 25:36 or eating disorders, where they're... 25:39 That aren't really healthy. 25:40 They become so restrictive of their diet that they, 25:42 you know, that they're not getting the nutrition 25:44 that they need. 25:45 So there is a balance of temperance within all of it 25:47 and I think temperance is just 25:49 as much of an important health component 25:51 to having victory as anything else. 25:53 Mm-hm. 25:54 You say victory, Danielle. 25:57 Can you describe victory to me? 26:00 Well, you know, when I think about victory, 26:04 I think about Proverbs 24:16, 26:07 and it says that the just man falls seven times 26:12 and rises up again 26:13 while the wicked falls into mischief. 26:16 And that shows me that 26:17 the difference between the wicked and the righteous 26:20 was not whether or not they fell 26:22 because they both fell, 26:23 but the righteous man rose up again, 26:26 and I think that's the important thing is that 26:29 even if we fall, it might be a discouraging experience, 26:36 but we don't have to stay there. 26:37 We don't have to stay down, we can get back up, 26:40 and we can trust that 26:41 God's mercy is sufficient in those times. 26:45 And just like a baby who is learning how to walk, 26:48 at first, they fall and they might fall a lot 26:52 as they're learning how to walk, 26:53 some children fall more than others 26:55 as they're learning to walk, 26:56 but as we continue to walk more and more, 26:59 it becomes more natural to us and we fall down less and less. 27:04 And now as an adult, I don't fall down much. 27:08 There are moments when I do. 27:09 I trip on something and I fall, 27:11 but, you know, it's not something 27:14 that makes me want to give up. 27:17 It's a journey that I can continue in 27:19 and I can walk in. 27:21 And this illustration of a child 27:22 has become more and more clear 27:24 and more and more beautiful to me 27:25 as my niece has come into the world. 27:28 You know, Hadassah was only four and a half pounds only 27:30 when she was born, 27:32 she was tiny, but she was perfect, 27:35 and then as she got bigger, she learnt to crawl, 27:37 she learnt to walk, and now she's riding her bike 27:40 and, you know, Hadassah might not, 27:43 you know, she might make mistakes every now and then, 27:45 but she is making her best effort 27:47 where she is at, and my Hadassah is perfect. 27:50 God's Word is a balanced fuel for us. 27:53 Thank you so much for joining us on Pure Choices, 27:56 and we wish you a healthy and blessed life. 27:59 Thank you. |
Revised 2017-08-03