Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000028A
00:31 Okay, we left off in Revelation chapter 7
00:34 we spent two studies... two programs
00:37 on the 144,000 and we're still not done,
00:40 go figure... Yvonne: I love it though...
00:42 James: Now, I'm just going to...
00:44 Yvonne: It's juicy... this is some juicy stuff right here.
00:47 James: And it's good stuff, it's important stuff.
00:48 Yvonne: It is. James: Now we left off...
00:50 we're going to do two more programs actually
00:52 because we're going to do this one... it's on the Seal of God
00:54 but it's going to finish up the characteristics of the 144,000
00:57 in Revelation 14... we might even touch on Revelation 15,
01:00 we're going to kind of do that a little bit...
01:02 and then we're going to go right in to the Seal of God
01:05 which is part of the 144,000
01:06 they're sealed with the Seal of God
01:08 which we've already learned
01:09 is the name of the Father in their foreheads...
01:12 the name of the Father in their foreheads...
01:15 Ezekiel 9 tells us that that's a protection
01:17 that it can be seen... it's a Mark that can be seen
01:20 but Revelation tells us
01:22 it's also character... it's also infused...
01:24 it's the character of God within us,
01:26 so it's not just a protection outward...
01:28 it's an inward experience that we have
01:31 in our relationship with Jesus Christ
01:33 because Jesus Christ's character
01:35 is the reflection of the Father's character.
01:37 so we want to look at the characteristics...
01:39 do all of the redeemed have these characteristics
01:41 or is this just an elite group?
01:42 That was the question we were kind of dealing with, right,
01:44 and then in our next program...
01:46 it's probably going to be one of the best programs
01:49 that we're going to do, I'm just throwing this out,
01:51 you guys are going to share with us
01:54 everything you've learned
01:56 about the 144,000 and the Seal of God.
01:58 Yvonne: Ohhhh... James: We're just going to be...
02:00 Yvonne: Might be kind of short huh,
02:02 no... underplaying... underplaying.
02:04 James: Well, we're just going to interact... interact, interact
02:06 and just go through it, what we're thinking is,
02:08 we should summarize the whole thing.
02:09 Yvonne: Yeah, I think it's good. James: We could be done in three
02:11 but we're going to do the fourth one
02:12 and summarize the whole thing and just bring it all together,
02:14 boom! type of thing, okay,
02:16 so, Jason, let's hit it off with a word of prayer
02:19 because we really need the Holy Spirit to be here
02:21 and then I'm thinking, we should move to Revelation 14
02:24 and get into the next characteristic.
02:25 Jason: All right, "Dear Heavenly Father,
02:27 thank you so much for bringing us back together
02:30 to study your Word again, please send your Holy Spirit
02:33 to fill this place with your presence
02:35 as we dig deeper into Revelation
02:38 and progress further and further in the Book,
02:42 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
02:43 All: "Amen... "
02:44 James: All right, Revelation 14,
02:46 now we've looked at the Father's name in Revelation 14
02:50 and verse 1, we've looked at Mount Zion too
02:53 we identified those and then we looked at
02:55 the first fruits which is in Revelation 14 and verse 4
02:59 but there's... there's another characteristic or two here
03:03 one of them in Revelation 14:4 is...
03:06 "These are they
03:08 which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. "
03:13 Okay, my understanding of that is that sometimes we think,
03:18 "Well that must just be an end-time group because
03:20 not defiled with women and virgins
03:24 infers that these guys have pure doctrine... "
03:27 now the reason I says this is because
03:29 if you read this literally, this could be...
03:32 this could infer... this is male...
03:35 virgins... never slept with a woman...
03:37 and Jewish... according to Revelation 7,
03:40 and that's what a lot of people think...
03:43 Christians believe that this 144,000 are
03:45 the literal 12 tribes of Israel, they're literal Jews
03:50 and when you get to Revelation 14...
03:52 they're literal male Jews who've never slept with a woman.
03:55 They take it all literally and one thing that's really...
03:57 I think, good about that interpretation,
03:59 one positive point about it I don't agree with it,
04:01 one positive point about it, it's consistent,
04:03 everything is literal, everything is literal...
04:05 we want to be just as consistent
04:08 in saying and understanding, everything is symbolic,
04:11 the number, therefore, is symbolic,
04:13 you can't have a literal number
04:14 and everything else is symbolic, so we're saying,
04:16 "No, it's either all literal or it's all symbolic"
04:18 so we've come down on the side of, "it's all symbolic... "
04:20 so what does it mean then
04:23 to be a woman and a virgin
04:25 in relation to our relationship to Christ?
04:28 Yvonne: Who are you asking? You're asking us?
04:30 James: Yeah... I'm asking...
04:32 Jason: A church is Christ's bride... so a purified bride.
04:34 James: Okay, so... definitely, we know...
04:37 the woman would be a symbol...
04:38 if it's symbolic... which we believe it is
04:39 all God's church... God's bride,
04:41 and we see the wedding theme here...
04:43 so we know... but what about virgins,
04:45 I mean, how does that play into that?
04:48 is there a Bible verse on it? Go ahead.
04:50 Yvonne: Well, it made me think about the harlot from Babylon.
04:55 James: Yes...
04:57 Yvonne: And these women...
04:59 this is referring to virgin so...
05:02 uncorrupted... you know... pure...
05:05 James: A pure women in white. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
05:06 James: Do we see a pure woman in white in the Book of Revelation.
05:08 Yvonne: We do...
05:10 James: Yeah, we saw one in Revelation chapter 12 verse 1,
05:12 now we haven't gotten there yet
05:14 because we're skipping up to 14...
05:16 only because we're trying to identify the group of 144,000
05:19 but go back to 2nd Corinthians chapter 11
05:23 and read here now, I'm going to tell you,
05:29 we're going to have to spend just a little bit of time here
05:31 because there's some stuff here that's really powerful
05:34 in relation to prophecy in Revelation.
05:37 Yvonne: Good.
05:38 James: Okay, so we're going to read... Revelation...
05:40 2nd Corinthians 11 and Jason, if you could read for us
05:43 verses 2... Yvonne: I have it already.
05:45 James: You have it... you're already on it...
05:47 okay, verses 2, 3 and 4.
05:48 Yvonne: "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
05:51 for I have espoused you to one husband,
05:53 that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. "
05:56 James: Ah ha... now let's stop there for just a second.
05:58 Yvonne: Yes... James: So there's the word...
06:00 Paul is actually using the word
06:02 he's talking to believers in Corinth...
06:03 but he's talking to believers,
06:05 this epistle written to Corinth is for everyone,
06:07 even us, and he's saying,
06:08 "I want you to be a virgin for Christ... "
06:10 now this is not in the end of time... the elite group...
06:13 this is everyone, okay, this is everyone,
06:14 then... what does he say?
06:17 Yvonne: Then he says, "But I fear, lest by any means,
06:20 as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
06:23 so your minds should be corrupted
06:25 from the simplicity that is in Christ. "
06:27 James: Now... another... just hold on just a second there
06:30 we've already picked up one word "virgins" Revelation 14...
06:33 now, we're picking up another word from the Book of Revelation
06:35 did you catch it... the serpent. Yvonne: Hmmm...
06:38 James: Where's that in Revelation?
06:40 Revelation 12...
06:42 the woman is presented and then there's this dragon...
06:44 that old serpent... the devil... Yvonne: Hmmm...
06:46 James: So do you see... the... okay...
06:49 we got to make those connections right here,
06:50 you've got the serpent, you've got the virgin,
06:51 okay, now we get to the punch line.
06:53 Yvonne: And it says,
06:55 "that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. "
06:58 Back here in Revelation, it says,
07:01 "they have not been defiled with women... "
07:03 James: Right, now verse 4...
07:05 Yvonne: "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
07:08 whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit,
07:13 which ye have not received, or another gospel,
07:15 which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. "
07:18 James: Okay, now look at this, there's another phrase here,
07:21 the gospel... in Revelation 14 we have the everlasting gospel.
07:24 Yvonne: Right.
07:25 James: We have a crossover right here,
07:27 the Book of Revelation is referring us
07:29 back to 2nd Corinthians.
07:30 It's talking about people who could be deceived
07:33 and that's another word that's used in Revelation 13,
07:35 who could be deceived by another Jesus...
07:39 another Jesus... do you believe in Jesus?
07:42 Yvonne: Oh yeah.
07:44 James: What Jesus do you believe in? Yvonne: Hmmm...
07:45 James: Another gospel... do you believe the gospel?
07:47 What gospel do you believe in?
07:49 Because there's another one, I guess.
07:50 In fact, there are preachers,
07:53 Jason, verses 13 through 15, there are preachers
07:56 preaching this other gospel and this other Jesus.
07:59 James: Look at this, this is amazing.
08:02 Jason: "For such are false apostles,
08:04 deceitful workers,
08:06 transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
08:08 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
08:12 into an angel of light.
08:13 Therefore it is no great thing
08:15 if his ministers also be transformed
08:17 as the ministers of righteousness;
08:19 whose end shall be according to their works. "
08:22 Yvonne: Hmmm...
08:23 James: Now this takes us to the lamb-like beast,
08:25 we haven't gotten there yet,
08:27 the beast with lamb-like horns who becomes the false prophet
08:29 all of this... all of this we're going to unpack this
08:31 later too... but all of this is telling us, basically,
08:34 that to be a virgin is to be among those
08:37 who hold the gospel of Jesus Christ,
08:40 who follow Jesus, who are filled with His spirit
08:43 and are not deceived by the devil and his ministers
08:46 and false prophets and false Christs,
08:48 and that's the whole focus so... so we've identified
08:50 what it means to be a first fruit... born of God,
08:52 born again what it means to be a virgin,
08:53 a woman that is pure and holy to the gospel of Jesus Christ
08:57 following Him and having His spirit...
08:58 it applies to everyone... across the board.
09:01 Ivor: I just want to add to that particular thought,
09:03 if you go into the Book of Proverbs,
09:06 this... this adds a really interesting view
09:10 in terms of the... the...
09:12 being a chaste virgin versus being defiled,
09:17 in Proverbs 31, beginning with verse 31,
09:21 I've... when I hear... when you hear Proverbs 31,
09:23 what do you think of? The virtuous woman...
09:26 the virtuous woman, I'm going to tell you something,
09:28 that the virtuous woman... a lot of people...
09:31 a lot of women especially... read this and they're like...
09:34 "Oh man! and I can't do... what?
09:35 this is all the virtuous woman does?"
09:36 And yes, in a sense it is a description
09:39 of the virtuous woman but I think in a greater sense,
09:41 this is a description of the church of Christ.
09:44 James: Yeah, absolutely. Yvonne: Ah...
09:45 Ivor: This is what Christ does, you know,
09:47 while her household sleeps, she's up making bread,
09:49 bread... you know, she's... she's gathering...
09:53 linen and all these things so when you read this
09:55 it's very powerful but I want you to check out
09:58 how the chapter starts, and it says,
10:00 "The words of king Lemuel,
10:02 the prophecy that his mother taught him. "
10:04 The what? Yvonne: Prophecy...
10:06 James: It's symbolic.
10:07 Ivor: A what? Prophecy? But then it goes on... it says,
10:10 "What, my son? and what, the son of my womb?
10:12 and what, the son of my vows? Give not thy strength unto... "
10:16 Ivor: What? All: women
10:17 Ivor: "women, nor that which destroyeth... " who?
10:20 All: "kings... "
10:21 Ivor: Remember, in the Book of Revelation says,
10:23 "We are kings... " right?
10:24 so what is Satan trying to do?
10:26 He's trying to destroy kings... and how is he going to do it?
10:28 He's going to do it through "women... "
10:30 whatever that means.. you see,
10:33 through deception, through guile,
10:35 so notice what it goes on to say,
10:38 "It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
10:40 it is not for kings to drink... " what?
10:43 All: wine... Ivor: "wine...
10:44 nor for princes strong drink:
10:47 Lest they drink, and... "
10:49 All: "forget the law... "
10:51 Ivor: "forget... lest they drink, and forget... "
10:55 James: Remember... don't forget...
10:57 "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. "
10:59 Yvonne: Hmmm... Ivor: Yes.
11:00 James: Which actually... the word "remember" means
11:02 "to mark" in Ezekiel they are "marked... "
11:05 they are sealed, they are marked.
11:07 Ivor: Yeah, when you said "remember something"
11:09 you are saying, "mark it down... mark it in your mind... "
11:12 the teacher will say, "write it down... "
11:14 people forget, paper does not...
11:17 "mark ye... mark ye... "
11:19 yeah, absolutely, so, again we're seeing
11:22 you know what? This... Revelation 14...
11:26 or those first few verses are demonstrating...
11:29 and showing to us people who avoid the false teachings,
11:35 the false gospels that are being presented.
11:38 This is only one gospel, really, it's the everlasting gospel
11:43 which is introduced in the very next verse,
11:45 Revelation 14:6...
11:46 James: So look at... looking at this
11:48 we have, one more, I think, characteristic...
11:51 it kind of ties together, they have no guile in their mouths
11:54 Revelation 14 says, "For they are without fault... "
11:57 how do... you know... when you think about that,
12:00 when you think about being without fault,
12:02 this is where a lot of people just say,
12:04 "this has got to be the final generation only... "
12:06 because look at all the fields...
12:08 even people who were... who were saved,
12:10 you know, even the Reformers... they had their faults,
12:13 I mean, they had their problems
12:14 and I think the reason why we think that way is
12:17 because we have a misunderstanding of the gospel
12:19 and the reason why we have a misunderstanding of the gospel
12:23 is because we think that God does a certain amount
12:25 and we do a certain amount and then... you know...
12:28 if we... and everything...
12:30 no, we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ
12:34 in every single generation and that's the only way
12:36 anyone ever gets into heaven,
12:39 it is His righteousness,
12:41 so the complete package is in Jesus,
12:43 now, our part is to put our faith and trust in Him
12:48 as we put our faith and trust in Him,
12:50 He presents us faultless, and I love...
12:52 the book that I love on this,
12:53 the chapter that I love on this is Hebrews chapter 11,
12:56 you'll never read it the same again,
12:59 it's the Faith Chapter and here's why I like it,
13:01 I'm just going to refer to it... here's why I like it,
13:02 all of the faithful of past generations
13:06 that are mentioned in that chapter
13:09 are mentioned without fault,
13:12 it talks about how Noah preached for 120 years...
13:15 doesn't say that he ever drank wine and got drunk...
13:18 it talks about how Abraham went out...
13:20 didn't know where he was going,
13:21 it doesn't say that he lied about his sister...
13:23 his wife being his sister twice. Yvonne: Right.
13:25 James: It says, Moses... you know...
13:27 he forsook the pleasures of sin for a season and...
13:29 and suffered with the people of God,
13:31 it doesn't say that he killed the Egyptian
13:32 and put him in the sand, there is nothing negative in it,
13:34 all of the failures of God's people
13:37 have been removed and all you see is "without fault...
13:40 without fault, without fault," why?
13:42 because it's the faith chapter. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
13:44 James: In fact, if you want to understand the judgment,
13:46 the Investigative Judgment,
13:47 Hebrews 11 is where you need to go,
13:48 Hebrews 11 is what we look like in the Investigative Judgment
13:53 when we put our trust in Jesus... by faith...
13:55 if we have our faith in Jesus, then, guess what?
13:57 Our names come up and guess what it looks like?
13:59 Everything that we did right and nothing that we did wrong.
14:02 Yvonne: Hmmm...
14:03 James: Hebrews 11 is the Investigative Judgment
14:06 when we put our faith in Jesus... by faith...
14:08 so, when it says, "they stand without fault"
14:10 this is the condition of
14:12 every single one of the redeemed in Christ.
14:14 Yvonne: Hmmm...
14:15 Ivor: Well and let me... let me add to this that
14:16 the "standing without fault" comes
14:19 as a direct result of the Investigative Judgment
14:22 because it is in the Investigative Judgment
14:26 which talks about the cleansing, you know,
14:29 the blotting out of sins, this is what's being blotted out
14:32 all the sins that have gone beforehand to the judgment
14:35 because we have put our trust in Christ,
14:37 we have confessed, forsaken, turned away from those sins
14:41 and God says, "that blood cancels out... "
14:45 so in that you have a Hebrews 11 picture
14:50 because you have done what Satan refused to do
14:53 which was repent, confess, so, they stand without fault
14:59 not because
15:02 they had never fallen or never sinned in their lives,
15:04 they stand without fault because,
15:06 through Christ, they were able to gain victory
15:09 and through Christ the things that they had done
15:12 that's... were... outside of His character
15:15 because they've confessed and repented
15:17 turned away from those sins, those sins are blotted out.
15:19 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
15:20 Ivor: And that's been something that's been available...
15:22 so when you go back to the fifth seal and the sixth seal...
15:26 the fifth seal are those who have died,
15:28 how long... before you judge, and what are they given?
15:33 white robes... their sins have been forgiven,
15:36 they're going to be without fault before the throne,
15:39 Revelation's... the sixth seal...
15:41 those who are the judgment that is to come,
15:43 those who... when the judgment actually begins
15:45 they are also given white robes,
15:47 you cannot have a white robe unless you're without fault,
15:50 so from Adam, all the way down
15:53 through all the generations, all who've accepted Christ
15:56 will stand before the throne without fault.
15:58 James: Faultless, absolutely faultless.
16:00 Yvonne: Because of Christ and His sacrifice.
16:02 Ivor: Because of Christ and His righteousness.
16:05 James: And that's exactly what it says in the Book of Jude,
16:06 the Jude is the book, right before Revelation,
16:10 notice what it says here, in Jude verse 24
16:12 because it's only... it's not like chapters,
16:15 it's just one chapter so it's verse 24 Jude,
16:17 it says, "Now, unto him... " talking about Christ,
16:20 "that is able to keep you from falling,
16:22 and to present you faultless
16:25 before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
16:29 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty,
16:32 dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen. "
16:34 Now, I really love this verse and here's why I love it,
16:36 it you go back just a couple of verses it says,
16:39 verse 22, "And some have compassion,
16:41 making a difference:
16:43 And others say with fear, pulling them out of the fire;
16:47 hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. "
16:48 Yvonne: Hmmm...
16:50 James: There are two groups, there are two emphases
16:53 that the gospel has intention, okay,
16:56 He is able to keep us from falling
16:58 and He's able to present us faultless,
17:00 so we have the power of God to keep us from falling.
17:03 We have people who hate sin and they're just like...
17:05 "oooh I really don't want to touch that
17:07 and we're going to overcome this," okay,
17:08 and then on the other side you have people who understand
17:10 that we're weak and faulty and we make mistakes
17:13 and they have compassion and that mercy and compassion
17:17 actually compels us and draws us and in the next verse
17:20 it says... and who is able to present you faultless...
17:23 in other words, you have faults,
17:24 but He's going to present you faultless...
17:26 the fact that He can present you faultless implies
17:28 that you have faults... Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
17:29 James: you see what I'm saying? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
17:30 James: Someone can present you faultless,
17:32 "Why would I need someone to present me faultless?
17:33 I mean, you know, I'm fine, right?"
17:35 Yvonne: Right.
17:36 James: We got faults, so you see the tension there?
17:38 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
17:39 James: You can hear someone
17:41 who can keep you from falling on one hand,
17:44 and who can also present you faultless
17:46 because you got a few faults, you see,
17:48 we want people who can show compassion
17:51 because you've got those faults,
17:52 but also who will pull you out of the fire
17:54 and they hate the thing that you are involved in,
17:57 and that's the tension we have to have in that gospel
17:59 because we can't be sitting here saying,
18:01 "Yeah, Jesus has got us, so it doesn't really matter"
18:03 no... no we need to be diligent about overcoming
18:06 but at the same time, we can't just say,
18:08 "Well, there's no way I can be saved,
18:09 I'm not good enough to be saved because
18:10 look at all the faults I've got, there's no way,
18:12 I'm just going to have to give up... "
18:14 no... wait a minute... you've got someone
18:16 who can present you faultless,
18:17 in spite of your faults, he can present you faultless,
18:19 I love that beautiful tension right there.
18:21 Yvonne: Yeah...
18:22 Ivor: I think it's... well, go ahead...
18:24 Yvonne: I was... I love that fact that
18:25 our God is so faithful that "he who hath begun a good work
18:30 in us will continue to perform it"
18:32 it's not going to stop until the day of Christ Jesus,
18:35 it's not going to stop, it's just going to...
18:37 He's going to... if He makes himself responsible,
18:40 if we yield to Him, and that's... that's the key...
18:43 I read this book...
18:45 Morris Venden's book a long time ago,
18:47 "Salvation by Faith and Your Will"
18:49 and the thing that stuck out to me the most was,
18:53 there's really nothing I can "do" to be saved,
18:57 Jesus has done it, all I can do
18:59 is give Him His time,
19:01 give Him time to do His work in me,
19:05 other than that... because, in giving Him His time,
19:08 His Word will transform me, so that's really all I can do,
19:13 other than that there's not much I can do
19:16 because it's been done for me
19:18 and Jesus holds Himself responsible for me
19:22 but I have to... and tell me if I'm...
19:25 if you guys are on the same page with this.
19:28 James: Okay.
19:30 Yvonne: The only thing I can do is give Him time and attention,
19:34 by being "intentional" about my time with the Lord
19:38 and that way, He can transform me
19:41 and I can be conformed to His character,
19:43 other than that... what can I do?
19:46 James: It sounds like you're saying to me
19:48 "there's nothing I can do to be saved,
19:51 but if I don't do something, I'm going to be lost... "
19:54 Yvonne: Yes...
19:56 James: There's nothing I can do, I can't save myself,
19:59 but I've got to do something
20:01 and that focus that you're talking about,
20:04 is the key... it is the secret of success
20:06 and in fact, it is the theme of the Book of Revelation,
20:11 let me just give you two references.
20:13 James: Reference number one, no man in heaven,
20:15 no man in earth and no man under the earth
20:18 can take the Book and read it and unseal it,
20:20 the elder says, "Weep not,
20:24 behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah...
20:27 behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah"
20:29 I can't prevail, no man in heaven...
20:32 but I can "behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah,
20:34 the root of David, He has prevailed"
20:35 and in the second verse, is Revelation 14,
20:38 "they follow the Lamb wherever He goes. "
20:41 Yvonne: Yes...
20:43 James: We are... we are called to follow,
20:45 Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men...
20:47 behold the Lamb of God, follow that... look and live,"
20:48 these are all the phrases,
20:50 Old and New Testament, these are all the phrases...
20:52 Old Testament... they look forward to the Lamb,
20:53 New Testament... you look back at the Lamb,
20:55 we all center in the Lamb, "And by beholding... "
20:57 2nd Corinthians 3:18,
20:58 "By beholding we become changed... "
21:00 there's a Law... of our spiritual and physical nature
21:02 and Satan knows that Law
21:03 so when you're driving down the road,
21:05 the billboards... car radio... the media... the phone...
21:08 everything... advertisement, all kinds of garbage and stuff
21:12 coming at us to try to transform us into the beastly image,
21:16 into the image of our nature do you have a thought Ivor,
21:18 because I'll keep going if you don't have anything to say.
21:21 Ivor: I was going to share that the end result
21:28 of the 144,000... remember,
21:31 it began with Revelation chapter 6 verse 1,
21:36 there's a rider on a white horse,
21:38 that rider is called the Word of God,
21:40 it is by the Word of God that we overcome,
21:45 so he is showing the end product of what the Word of God can do
21:50 the Word of God can allow you to overcome
21:54 persecution... the red horse,
21:57 "Oh man, they're persecuting me because they...
21:59 I'm trying to keep the Sabbath and they're... "
22:01 no, God says, "You're still on the white horse
22:04 you will overcome that" compromise...
22:06 I'm so used to compromising,
22:08 one day I'm up, the other day I'm down,
22:09 God is saying, "Listen to me,
22:11 if you stay on that white horse, I will give...
22:14 I can give you victory over compromise... "
22:17 in other words, all those...
22:19 think these other horses as hurdles
22:21 and the white horse is just, hooo, hooo, hooo,
22:25 and he's getting us to the other side,
22:27 our goal is heaven,
22:29 our method of getting there... the white horse,
22:32 between us... between heaven,
22:35 between... how am I going to say it?
22:38 between heaven and our journey are these three horses,
22:41 that are trying to stop us either through persecution,
22:44 through compromise or just through total denial of God,
22:47 God says, "You stay on me, you stay on the white horse... "
22:50 James: "I'll take you through. "
22:52 Ivor: "and I will take you through. "
22:53 Yvonne: Wow... good...
22:55 Ivor: So, that's victory not only in a...
22:57 in a broad sense but really in a very personal sense
23:00 like, in your life, "Man, I used to be a drug addict... "
23:03 "I used to be a drunk... "
23:04 "I used to be addicted to these things... "
23:06 and God says, "Look, get on... get on this horse... "
23:10 and you know what happens?
23:11 We're on the horse, yeah... we get victory...
23:14 yes... we fall off the horse,
23:15 James: You take your hands off the horse.
23:17 Ivor: You take your hands off the reins...
23:19 you know... am I now like... oh man!
23:22 God says, "Get back up, get back up quickly
23:25 before one of these other horses comes and get you,
23:27 get back up and get on me... "
23:29 "But Lord, I'm depressed and discouraged... "
23:30 "no... get back up... and get on me... "
23:32 and we get back up and get on Him...
23:34 and He takes us again... Yvonne: Oh...
23:35 Ivor: So, those who are lost are those who got...
23:39 who fell off that white horse and then decided to stay on,
23:43 they decided to let one of those other horses
23:46 come and rule their lives, so God says,
23:48 "Look, I don't care how many times you fall,
23:50 if you keep getting back up and saying,
23:54 "Lord, help me with this, help me with this... "
23:55 I'm going to help you with this,
23:57 I'm going to bring you the victory
23:59 so, don't be discouraged,
24:01 I'm going to get you to the other side.
24:02 Yvonne: Look how encouraging that is...
24:04 James: Two Bible verses on that,
24:06 "A just man falls seven times, and rises up again... "
24:08 and seven is complete or perfect...
24:11 and then the other one is, Jesus says,
24:13 "He that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out... "
24:15 Yvonne: Yes...
24:16 James: If we only had that one verse,
24:17 that would be enough to get us into the kingdom.
24:19 Ivor: So, He's not saying,
24:21 "Hey, you can just keep sinning and repenting and... "
24:23 you know, that's not the gospel,
24:25 the purpose of the gospel is not "Hey, Jesus...
24:27 He's going to forgive me
24:29 so I'm just going to do this again and again... "
24:30 Yvonne: Right... right... James: That's not good news.
24:31 Ivor: Exactly, that's not good news.
24:33 James: That's depressing. Ivor: That's depressing
24:34 for the drug addict... that's depressing for the alcoholic,
24:36 James: The same life... Ivor: Exactly.
24:38 Yvonne: There's no overcoming.
24:39 Ivor: There's no overcoming. James: And that's depressing.
24:40 Ivor: And what do the seven churches tell us?
24:43 "To him that overcomes, overcomes, overcomes, overcomes"
24:45 James: So look at this in the context... oh, go ahead.
24:48 Yvonne: I was just... that it's so exciting to me
24:51 because there are so many people struggling with sin
24:55 and they say, "Man, I just can't...
24:57 I just can't get past this, I just can't...
24:59 you know, I'm okay here but then I fall here
25:02 and then I don't want to talk to God over here
25:05 because I've fallen and so He's not going to accept me back
25:07 because I'm too bad... " no, what you are just saying
25:11 is that no matter how many times you fall,
25:14 you don't go into it planning to fall
25:17 but if you do, you ask God "to please help me with this,"
25:21 it is a struggle...
25:22 for some people... we cannot succumb,
25:25 you have to continue the struggle
25:29 for some people, they will live in...
25:32 for example... an alternative lifestyle...
25:34 "that's who I am... it's not a sin...
25:37 don't say it's a sin... " James: I've tried... I've tried.
25:39 Yvonne: No, God is saying, "I've got you...
25:43 I'll bring you through you might fall,
25:46 I'll bring you through but you have to stay on the horse
25:50 you fall off, get back on... they can abide in me. "
25:54 James: Same thing, same truth yeah.
25:55 Jason: They have to make the choice, I think about when,
25:58 I believe it was Peter that stepped out of the boat,
26:01 had his eyes on Christ and then he was like,
26:03 "Wow! I'm walking on water... " the next thing you know...
26:06 bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop,
26:07 "Jesus save me... " and...
26:10 James: And what happened when he said, Jesus save me?"
26:13 Yvonne: He got back up they were able to save...
26:15 James: Jesus was right there in that moment,
26:18 grabbing his hand and pulling out of that bloop, bloop, bloop.
26:21 I mean it was instant and that's what God is saying,
26:24 so Peter... the way we think about that sometimes is like
26:27 "Oh yeah, I can come out... "
26:29 and we're scared... we come out and we walk on the water
26:31 and we're like, "Whoa, look at me... "
26:32 and we fall... we're like... "Oh, I shouldn't have done that,
26:34 oh, I'll try to keep going here for a little while
26:37 and if I can keep my head above the water
26:39 for maybe a couple of minutes,
26:40 maybe then, Jesus will come and save me. "
26:42 All: Laughing...
26:43 James: You're not going to keep your head
26:45 above the water for a couple of minutes,
26:46 the only way you're ever going to keep your head...
26:47 and get your head above the water,
26:49 anything above the water is for Jesus to come and save you,
26:51 there's nothing you can do by yourself, absolutely nothing.
26:54 So we've run out of time.
26:56 Yvonne: I can't believe it.
26:57 James: Believe it, it's good stuff,
26:59 we're going to keep going,
27:00 I wanted to just give a reference...
27:02 1st John chapter 2:1 and 2 basically,
27:04 God doesn't want us to sin but if we do sin,
27:06 we have an advocate with the Father...
27:08 Yvonne: Jesus Christ the righteous.
27:09 James: It's very, very important Yvonne: Amen.
27:11 James: We also want to tell Viewers,
27:13 how they can send in their questions.
27:14 Jason: They can send an e-mail to sss@3abn. org
27:19 sss as in Salvation in Symbols and Signs.
27:21 James: All right, you heard it here and you heard it from Jason
27:23 Yvonne, would you pray us out?
27:27 Yvonne: Yes, yes, "Lord thank you so very much,
27:30 oh! thank you God that you make yourself responsible
27:33 for us as long as we abide in you, thank you
27:36 and be with us, continue to guide and direct,
27:39 we pray in Jesus' name, amen. "
27:40 All: "Amen... "
27:42 James: So we are going to get into the seal of God,
27:45 we are going to be able to do that subject
27:47 and we're going to do it next, we're just going to dive in
27:50 and I've got some verses that we're just going to share
27:52 and then we're going to just expand upon them
27:54 and probably do a little bit of, I don't know,
27:56 summary at the same time, we'll see...
27:58 Ivor: We'll see where it goes. James: Yeah.