Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000033A
00:30 Finally, we are going to begin the trumpets...
00:33 actually... trumpet number one...
00:34 and Revelation chapter 8 has been
00:37 powerful in its introduction to trumpet number one
00:40 and its told us this... that God gives trumpet warnings,
00:45 warnings of alarm but before those warnings sound,
00:49 He gives us a picture of His love,
00:51 of His intercession,
00:53 He gives us a picture of His desire
00:54 to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh,
00:56 a desire to call us back to Him and to forgive us of our sins
01:00 and to fulfill in us His goal which is complete redemption
01:04 and it's only as we reject that picture
01:06 that he allows judgments which really are
01:08 the consequences of our own choices
01:11 so, the Jews... in rejecting the gospel,
01:14 aligned themselves with the Romans,
01:17 they even said at one point,
01:19 "We have no king but Caesar and His blood... "
01:22 talking of Christ, "His blood be on us and our children... "
01:25 and those are the kinds of symbols
01:27 we're going to see coming out here
01:28 as we look at the first trumpet.
01:29 We're going to see the symbolism that identifies judgments...
01:33 trumpet judgments... coming upon this first nation
01:37 that rejected Christ and refused to receive
01:41 the gospel... the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ,
01:44 now, in saying that I want to emphasize
01:46 that Jesus told His disciples
01:49 after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit,
01:51 "I want you first to go to Jerusalem...
01:52 I want... then to Samaria...
01:55 and then to the uttermost parts of the world
01:57 but I want you first to go to Jerusalem,
01:59 so there was a 40-year period there
02:01 from the time Christ died until the destruction of Jerusalem
02:04 was almost a complete generation of 40 years
02:06 before that final destruction came,
02:09 Jesus said, "I'm leaving your house desolate"
02:11 but He gives that mercy, He gives that long-suffering
02:14 to His nation... to His people,
02:16 and we're going to see all of this
02:17 when we start breaking over...
02:19 open these symbols in the first trumpet.
02:21 Jason, we're going to open with a word of prayer
02:23 and then, Yvonne, we're going to get into Revelation chapter 8
02:26 and we look here at verses 6 and 7, all right.
02:30 Jason: "Dear Heavenly Father,
02:32 we need you to be with us as we study the Word, Lord,
02:35 and we thank you for filling this place with your presence,
02:37 help us to retain the information that we're studying
02:40 and comprehend it, in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
02:42 All: "Amen... "
02:44 Yvonne: 8 and 9, right?
02:46 James: Revelation chapter 8 verses 6 and 7.
02:48 Yvonne: Verses 6 and 7, see, I'm glad I asked you, okay,
02:51 "And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets
02:54 prepared themselves to sound.
02:56 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire
03:00 mingled with blood,
03:01 and they were cast upon the earth:
03:04 And the third part of trees was burnt up,
03:06 and all green grass was burnt up. "
03:09 James: All right, so verse 6 is telling us
03:11 these angels are getting ready to sound
03:13 which is important because we're realizing now
03:16 that they haven't sounded yet, the judgments haven't come yet
03:18 and we've seen...
03:20 we've filled out this picture of Pentecost,
03:22 we've filled out the picture of the early church...
03:24 Peter... filled with the Spirit quoting Joel
03:27 which is filled with all of the symbols
03:30 that we're going to see here in the trumpet judgments,
03:33 quoting Joel and saying, "Repent, repent, repent...
03:34 this is the day that God has talked about...
03:36 and He's warning you to repent
03:38 because blood and fire mingled with smoke...
03:40 it's going to come... " the judgments are going to come
03:42 and so now, after Pentecost
03:45 which is fulfilled in this... these previous verses...
03:47 now we see those judgments coming
03:49 as the first angel sounds,
03:51 one of the questions that we have to ask ourselves
03:55 when we study these trumpets is,
03:57 "Are they literal or are they symbolic?"
04:00 And it's very important for us to understand the principles
04:04 that would help us to identify a literal or a symbolic...
04:08 in the Book of Revelation...
04:09 so here's the principle that we're going to look at right now
04:11 if the texts make good sense as it reads
04:16 and it does no violation to the laws of nature,
04:21 it should be understood literally,
04:22 okay, if the text makes good sense as it reads...
04:25 it makes sense, "Whoa, yeah, that's easy to understand... "
04:28 and there's no violation of the laws of nature,
04:30 it should be understood literally,
04:32 if not... it should be understood symbolically,
04:35 so I'm going to read this text, you guys tell me,
04:38 does it make good sense as it reads and does it...
04:40 does it or does it not violate the laws of nature,
04:43 "And the first angel sounded," the first trumpet sounded...
04:47 "and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood,
04:51 and they were cast upon the earth:
04:53 and the third part of trees was burnt up,
04:55 and all green grass was burnt up. "
04:56 Does that make good sense?
04:58 Yvonne: No, that sounds as though it would be symbolic.
05:01 James: It does... doesn't it?
05:02 Yvonne: Because hail and fire mingled with blood...
05:04 James: Hail and fire mingled with blood...
05:06 and then... a third part of the trees and all green grass...
05:09 like, every blade of green grass so there's symbolism...
05:13 it's almost obvious... the symbolism here...
05:15 and that is a really important principle we want to follow
05:18 through with it in all of our texts,
05:19 if it doesn't make good sense,
05:20 if it violates the laws of nature,
05:22 you know, hail and fire... those are two opposites,
05:24 mingled with blood, whoa... what was that?
05:27 Then we should understand the text symbolically.
05:29 Ivor: And we can also remember from our last study,
05:33 that we saw that...
05:35 the opening vision... gives us a picture of Peter
05:38 as he is preaching on the day of Pentecost
05:41 and we saw he utilized those very terms,
05:43 many of the terms that are found...
05:45 the ideas that are found in the seven trumpets...
05:47 he utilizes them and remember
05:49 on the day of Pentecost, as Peter is saying,
05:51 "Yup, these things are about to be fulfilled...
05:54 the smoke and all these things... "
05:56 and they're looking around going...
05:59 "How are you saying that this is fulfilled?"
06:01 But Peter was warning them of things to come
06:03 he's quoting from the Book of Joel
06:05 which we see itself... is used in symbolic language
06:09 to describe armies... or destruction upon nations,
06:14 specifically upon the nation of Israel.
06:16 James: I think it's really important for us now
06:18 just to take a gander, a look... at Matthew 24,
06:21 you could also see it in Mark 13 and Luke 21
06:25 but Matthew 24 is where Christ takes time
06:28 to describe what's going to happen to Jerusalem
06:31 and the end of the world, so Matthew chapter 24
06:35 is a warning that Christ gives, we could say,
06:37 that Matthew 24 is the trumpet being sounded...
06:41 literally being sounded by Christ
06:43 and He is very clear, there's no symbolism here,
06:46 He's very clear in His language,
06:47 He's talking... we don't need to read the verses,
06:49 I'm just going to do a quick overview,
06:51 He's talking about... first of all...
06:52 the destruction of Jerusalem,
06:53 He comes out of the temple,
06:55 He has just told His disciples
06:57 that this temple is going to be left desolate in chapter 23...
07:01 in chapter 24 He comes out of the temple
07:03 and says, "See all these stones...
07:04 that you think are so beautiful,
07:06 not one is going to be left upon another...
07:07 that won't be cast down... "
07:09 then He says, "There's going to be deception,
07:11 false prophets and there's going to be wars and rumors of wars
07:14 famine, pestilence, earthquakes in different places
07:16 and Jerusalem is going to fall,
07:18 basically, Jerusalem is going to fall...
07:20 now we know Jerusalem fell in AD 70...
07:22 if we're in the Apostolic Age
07:24 and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit
07:26 in Revelation chapter 8,
07:27 if we have a trumpet giving a warning of judgment,
07:30 if we have Jesus telling His disciples,
07:32 "Go to Jerusalem first and make sure they hear the warning
07:35 and then I'll deal with them
07:36 depending on how they relate to that... "
07:38 if the history of the early church tells us
07:40 the Jews rejected that warning
07:41 and the history of nations tells us that Jerusalem fell
07:44 and Jesus' words were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem,
07:47 we can expect that the first trumpet...
07:50 that announces a judgment on a nation
07:53 would be a trumpet that would come upon Jerusalem
07:55 because it lines up with the Bible,
07:57 it lines up with the words of Christ,
07:59 it lines up with history, so all of that comes into place.
08:03 Ivor: And I'll say, let's look at what we've been doing
08:07 in all our other programs, right,
08:08 what's the first church?
08:10 The first church is Ephesus, that is the early church,
08:14 okay, so, the first church is Ephesus
08:16 and the first seal is the church going forward in power,
08:21 advancing the gospel, then, when we get to the trumpet
08:24 all we need to ask is, "Okay, trumpets, trumpets...
08:27 well, trumpets are blown
08:29 against the enemies of God's people,
08:32 so, hmmm... who are the enemies of God's people
08:35 in the early church, who was it?
08:38 Was it the Medo-Persian Empire?
08:40 Was it the Papacy? No, no, no, no, no, no...
08:44 the first enemy of the church was Israel itself
08:49 so, this trumpet must have to do with first... the warning
08:54 and then the ultimate judgment upon this nation
08:58 that was warring against the people of God... "
09:01 so, remember what we saw what trumpets meant
09:04 in previous studies, number one...
09:05 the trumpet... is a sound to advance...
09:08 number two... the trumpet reflects a call or a warning
09:14 to those who are against God's purposes
09:18 but it's a warning of mercy, "Blow the trumpet... "
09:20 Peter was blowing the trumpet on the day of Pentecost
09:23 to the Jews... "Blow your trumpet...
09:26 blow ye the trumpet where? In my Holy Mountain"
09:29 and so, here you have this blowing of the trumpet...
09:32 they are... it's a warning to Israel...
09:34 and what happens in 70 AD...
09:36 because Israel did not, as a nation, embrace Christ,
09:41 they stoned Stephen, in fact, James,
09:44 think about this... the first trumpet
09:48 actually takes us... shows us
09:50 a fulfillment of the 70-Week Prophecy,
09:54 the 70-Week Prophecy...
09:56 pointed forward to the coming of Christ,
09:59 and was basically saying to the Jews,
10:02 "Listen, if you don't repent, if you don't accept the Messiah,
10:05 you will be cut off. "
10:07 Now, what's 70 weeks? It's seventy times seven,
10:10 what did Jesus say about forgiveness?
10:12 James: Matthew 18...
10:13 Ivor: If your enemy... sins against you...
10:16 forgive him... seven times? No... seventy times seven...
10:19 and so, at the close of this seventy-times-seven period
10:23 which brought us down to the time of Christ,
10:24 the Jews said, "no... "
10:26 and as a result... you have this trumpet being...
10:29 well, the trumpet is blown warning them,
10:31 they reject the warning... you have the fall of Israel, 70 AD.
10:35 James: All right... let's look at a few Bible verses,
10:37 we want to fill our minds with the Word of God,
10:39 so, Jason, take us...
10:41 the first Bible verse I want us to look at
10:43 is in relation to hail... so Job chapter 38...
10:46 Job 38:22 and 23...
10:48 Yvonne, don't go there because I've got a Bible verse for you.
10:49 Yvonne: Okay...
10:51 James: I'd like you to share with us
10:52 Isaiah 28 verse 2... so, Isaiah 28 verse 2...
10:57 and then Job 38:22 and 23...
11:00 and whoever gets there first can start
11:02 because they are both going to be helping us with the hail...
11:05 how the hail symbolizes judgment.
11:07 Jason: Okay, you said verse chapter 28 verse...
11:11 James: Chapter 38... and this time... it's Job.
11:15 That's an inside joke...
11:19 Yvonne: You want me to just read Isaiah 28:2?
11:22 "Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one,
11:26 which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm,
11:29 as a flood of mighty waters overflowing,
11:31 shall cast down to the earth with the hand. "
11:34 James: Okay... so this is simply saying
11:36 that hail is used symbolically to talk about God's judgment
11:41 and His destroying storm
11:42 and His casting down to the earth with His hand.
11:44 Okay, another verse is Job 38:22 and 23.
11:48 Jason: Okay, "Hast thou entered
11:50 into the treasures of the snow?
11:52 or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
11:54 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble,
11:58 against the day of battle and war?"
12:00 James: Okay, here this verse is telling us,
12:02 hail is synonymous with the time of trouble,
12:04 a time of Babylon war and that's exactly what happened
12:07 in the destruction of Jerusalem,
12:08 the destruction of Jerusalem took place
12:11 when the Romans came and laid a siege against it
12:13 and basically came against it
12:15 and warred against it and brought it down
12:17 and it was a direct judgment, a direct fulfillment of God's...
12:20 of the prophecy of the Bible.
12:22 Ivor: And, we should say, "much blood was spilled... "
12:24 James: Yes... Ivor: Much blood was spilled,
12:25 hail and fire mingled with blood it's a picture of destruction.
12:29 Yvonne: Okay.
12:31 James: It's a picture of destruction...
12:32 "His blood be on us and our children... "
12:33 there are a number of verses here... in relation to blood
12:36 but I think that's obvious,
12:37 the point that we need to make here, Ivor,
12:39 I think it's really important for us to understand this... is
12:42 sometimes you've got the same word
12:45 but a different symbolic meaning,
12:47 so, fire, in the previous verses represented the Holy Spirit
12:52 and we looked at Bible verses for that,
12:53 one of the Bible verses, we didn't touch on
12:55 but I want us to look is...
12:56 just to give for a reference is Isaiah chapter 6:1 through 9,
13:01 or Isaiah is cleansed with fire off the altar
13:04 and then he gives a message
13:06 and so that's a good reference for fire,
13:08 but now, we have the same word, "fire"
13:10 but it means something different,
13:12 now, we have Bible verses for that
13:13 and we're going to read those,
13:15 but when fire means something different,
13:17 what would make us interpret it differently?
13:19 Well, the context makes us interpret it differently,
13:22 for example... before the trumpets start blowing,
13:25 we're not talking about judgment the trumpets haven't blown yet,
13:27 so now, we're talking about something else...
13:30 that fire has to mean something else.
13:32 Ivor: This fire is destroying things.
13:33 James: Yes...
13:34 Ivor: The trees are burnt up. James: Yes.
13:36 Ivor: The grass is burnt up.
13:37 James: So this can't be that same fire...
13:39 that same interpretation. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
13:40 James: So in the Bible, in Revelation, for example,
13:42 chapter 5, we're told that the incense
13:44 represents the prayers of the saints
13:45 but in Revelation chapter 8,
13:47 that incense is mingled with the prayers of the saints.
13:49 So it has to represent something else,
13:50 well, then we looked in Ephesians 5:2...
13:52 it represents the righteousness
13:54 or the sacrifice of Jesus Christ,
13:56 the "sweet-smelling savor" so, it's very important...
13:59 not to just have a Bible verse or two to interpret this symbol,
14:02 but to make sure your interpretation fits
14:04 with the context of the prophecy,
14:06 what are we talking about right now,
14:09 right now... we're talking about judgment,
14:10 okay, let's look at the verses,
14:12 the one that is really powerful, Jason,
14:14 if you can read... it's Matthew chapter 7
14:16 and verse 19 and then...
14:18 Yvonne if you can read 1st Corinthians 3 and verse 13,
14:23 and this has to do with fire equaling judgment
14:26 fire equaling a time when God's people or when a nation
14:30 or when, you know, different individuals were judged.
14:34 Jason: Matthew 7:19?
14:35 James: Matthew 7: 19. Jason: Okay,
14:37 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
14:40 and cast into the fire. "
14:42 James: Now, what's really interesting about this verse
14:44 is a sign talking about "fire" being "judgment,"
14:47 it's also talking about trees, which were in the context
14:49 of our verse here... we haven't gotten the trees yet
14:51 but that's in verse for both of them.
14:53 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... that's good.
14:55 1st Corinthians 3:13,
14:57 "Every man's work shall be made manifest:
15:00 for the day shall declare it,
15:02 because it shall be revealed by fire;
15:04 and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. "
15:08 James: Okay, so again, we have fire, here, trying...
15:11 fire bringing the day of trial
15:13 and revealing what manner of work you are,
15:16 where you are standing with God
15:17 or where you are not standing with God,
15:19 so, we've got judgment, we've got fire,
15:20 implicating... I mean... judgment...
15:22 and trial implicated in the word "fire,"
15:24 a day of judgment, a day of trying,
15:26 now, I think it's really interesting
15:29 that we've also got that word, "blood... "
15:31 and we didn't touch on this but I want us to touch on this,
15:33 we've got blood...
15:34 in a previous meeting we looked at blood
15:37 in relation to the blood of Christ,
15:39 and all through the Bible we have that,
15:41 but again, remember, we're under judgments,
15:43 we're under the trumpets now,
15:44 so we got to have a different understanding
15:47 of how that blood is used and we've got a number of verses
15:51 that we've looked at and referred to in relation to that
15:54 but I want us to look now
15:55 at trees because this is really interesting
15:58 and the one that...
16:00 the verse that I want us to look at is...
16:01 is Luke 23:31... for one of them
16:05 and then the other one is...
16:07 so Luke 23:31... Yvonne, if you can get that
16:10 and Jason, if you can get Luke 3 verse 9...
16:13 Luke 3 verse 9 and then Ivor, can you take us to
16:20 Daniel 4 verse 20?
16:22 Jason: All right... Yvonne: You said 23:31?
16:27 James: I said, yeah, Luke 23:31...
16:28 Yvonne: Okay... "For if they do these things
16:33 in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
16:37 James: Okay, now, Jesus is talking here
16:38 and He's saying... He's liking Himself to the green tree,
16:41 "they're... they're are crucifying me,
16:43 they're persecuting me in the green tree... I'm the green tree
16:45 what's going to be done in the dry tree?"
16:46 And He's referring now to the time when the Jewish nation
16:49 is all dried up... there's no Holy Spirit,
16:51 there's nothing there, they're ready for judgment,
16:53 so He's referring to Himself as a green tree
16:55 and the Jewish nation as a dry tree
16:56 in another verse... as the fig tree...
16:58 that was cursed and it dried up, that was the Jewish nation,
17:01 okay, Jason, what have you got?
17:04 Jason: Luke chapter 3 verse 9,
17:05 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:
17:08 every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit
17:11 is hewn down, and cast into the fire. "
17:14 James: Again, trees symbolizing people...
17:16 symbolizing judgment that comes upon people
17:19 who reject the message,
17:20 John the Baptist there speaking and is thrown into the fire,
17:23 the point we're making here is that all of these symbols...
17:26 all of these... the trees, the fire, the blood, the hail...
17:29 all of these are unpacking the Bible
17:31 and they all represent judgments...
17:33 they... it all make sense... New Testament, Old Testament,
17:35 it all comes forth,
17:37 now, the only other one that I want us to look at...
17:38 oh, Ivor, you've got one for us.
17:40 Ivor: Yeah, Daniel 4:20... "The tree that thou sawest,
17:41 which grew, and was strong,
17:43 whose height reached unto the heaven,
17:44 and the sight thereof to all the earth... "
17:46 James: Okay, that's talking about Nebuchadnezzar,
17:49 so he's a leader... so... in the Bible consistently
17:52 trees represent leaders, specifically,
17:55 so you've got the trees,
17:56 but then, what does the green grass represent?
17:59 The trees represent the leaders
18:00 like Nebuchadnezzar et cetera, what does the green grass...?
18:02 Ivor: Before you go to the grass,
18:04 I want to mention, one verse in particular
18:06 with the trees and it's found in Ezekiel 20 verse 47
18:10 and... actually verse 46 and 47.
18:12 James: You're going to read it?
18:14 Ivor: I'll read it. James: Okay...
18:16 Ivor: So it says, "Son of man, set thy face
18:17 toward the south... " that is Jerusalem...
18:20 "and drop thy word toward the south,
18:22 and prophesy against the forest of the south field;
18:25 And say to the forest of the south,
18:27 Hear the word of the Lord; Thus saith the Lord GOD;
18:32 Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee,
18:35 and it shall devour every green tree in thee,
18:38 and every dry tree:
18:40 the flaming flame shall not be quenched,
18:42 and all the faces from the south to the north
18:44 shall be burned therein. "
18:46 So, here you have God using this illustration
18:49 of fire burning this forest,
18:50 and He's referring to His own people,
18:53 so when we see this plague...
18:56 not this plague but his trumpet being blown
18:59 and these trees are being burned up,
19:01 there's ample evidence to show us...
19:03 as we look at everything in its context,
19:05 and do all our double checking,
19:07 this can be nothing else but the destruction of Jerusalem.
19:12 James: In fact, look at this, one more...
19:15 a couple more verses on green grass
19:17 and then we'll kind of summarize and look at a few verses
19:19 that bring it all together,
19:21 because I think that's really going to be powerful
19:23 but... first... excuse me... Isaiah 40 verse 7...
19:26 Ivor: I'll read that, I got it right here.
19:27 James: You got it right there? Ivor: Yeah.
19:29 James: Okay. Ivor: "The voice said, Cry.
19:31 And he said, What shall I cry?
19:32 All flesh is grass, and all the goodness thereof
19:35 is as the flower of the field:
19:36 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth away:
19:39 because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it:
19:42 surely the people is as grass. "
19:44 Yvonne: Hmmm...
19:45 James: Psalm 92:7 says,
19:46 "When the wicked spring as the grass,
19:48 and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish;
19:52 it shall be destroyed for ever... "
19:55 James: So, green grass... people...
19:58 trees... leaders... fire... burned up...
20:03 hail... day of battle... blood... being shed...
20:08 we have all of these symbols identified in the Bible...
20:11 Ivor: Warning... James: Trumpets blowing...
20:13 the only other symbol that we want to look at
20:15 is the "third part... "
20:16 it says, "the third part of the trees and all green grass... "
20:19 and in Revelation chapter 12 and verse 3,
20:22 it talks about Satan, let's just look at that verse,
20:26 Revelation 12 and verse 3, Jason, read that for us,
20:30 if you can get that...
20:31 Jason: Chapter 12 verse 3...
20:33 James: Actually, I'm sorry, it's 12 verse 4...
20:35 Jason: Okay, "And his tail drew
20:37 the third part of the stars of heaven,
20:38 and did cast them to the earth... "
20:40 James: Stop right there... okay,
20:41 this is talking about Satan... the war in heaven...
20:45 and how his tail... which Isaiah 9:15 says,
20:48 "the prophet that teaches lies, he is the tail... "
20:50 so it's lies, deception...
20:52 "drew the third part of the stars... "
20:54 now they call it the "third part" for two reasons,
20:56 one reason is because it was a third...
20:58 a third of the angels were deceived,
21:00 but the third part now becomes a symbol
21:02 of those who were deceived,
21:03 so what the third part of the trees... is symbol...
21:07 representation of the leaders in Israel that were deceived,
21:09 they wouldn't accept the message,
21:11 it also reminds us that it's limited...
21:13 the third part is not the two thirds,
21:15 it's not the three thirds,
21:16 this is still judgment mingled with mercy,
21:18 this is limited judgment, it's not the seven last plagues,
21:22 it's not the end of probation, it's not...
21:25 we can apply this verse down to the plagues
21:27 in Revelation chapter 15 and 16,
21:29 it's right here that we have a limited judgment...
21:31 that's taking place on a specific nation
21:33 and it is... and there's still mercy tendered with that,
21:36 so we have leadership... we have people...
21:38 we have judgment, we have fire...
21:41 we have all of the destruction that was predicted
21:44 by Christ in Matthew 24...
21:46 all of it is being fulfilled here
21:48 in Revelation chapter 8
21:49 when that first trumpet is being blown.
21:51 James: You still want to go over there...
21:52 Ivor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
21:54 so, remember some of the things we talked about with trumpets,
21:56 remember one of the things we talked about
21:58 was the story of Gideon,
21:59 remember the story of Gideon, how when the trumpet blew,
22:02 right, the enemies of God's people,
22:06 they turned their swords on one another,
22:08 okay, so, let's think about this
22:10 who is God's enemy at this time?
22:12 Who are the enemies of God's people...
22:14 the Christian church this time?
22:15 It's Israel... okay...
22:17 but who did Israel team up with to crucify Christ?
22:21 Yvonne: Rome...
22:22 Ivor: Rome... so here you have these two powers,
22:25 working together to oppose God's people,
22:30 well, guess what happens under the first trumpet?
22:32 They turn their swords on one another,
22:35 Rome destroys Israel...
22:38 they're in this battle between each other,
22:40 remember they said, "We have no king but Caesar... "
22:42 right, so you are our new king, come on... we're buddy buddy,
22:46 we're... when the trumpet blows,
22:48 woosh... their swords turn upon each other,
22:52 just like in Gideon's time, now,
22:54 and James and I talked about this yesterday so...
22:57 James: I can take over... I can take over here, you know.
23:02 Ivor: All right... so just watch
23:05 let's go back to Revelation 8, very quickly,
23:07 Revelation 8... and just notice this, Revelation 8...
23:11 we're not going to get into the second trumpet yet, of course.
23:13 James: Jesus says, "I'll come as a thief... "
23:15 Ivor: Funny... so in Revelation 8...
23:20 Revelation 8... and notice the second trumpet...
23:23 what is the second trumpet?
23:25 James: It's a mountain burning with fire.
23:28 Ivor: It's a mountain... right, burning with fire,
23:31 now, let's go back to the Book of Matthew...
23:33 Yvonne: Wait, I'm sorry... where is that?
23:35 Ivor: It's Revelation 8 verse...
23:36 James: Verse 8... "And the second angel sounded,
23:39 and there was this great mountain burning with fire
23:41 and was cast into the sea... "
23:43 Ivor: The mountain is where, cast where?
23:45 Yvonne: In the sea... Ivor: Into the sea...
23:48 all right, let's go over to Matthew chapter 21,
23:50 Matthew 21 and let's look at verse 19.
23:54 James: This is powerful stuff
23:55 but I think we've reversed our roles here,
23:58 I think we've reversed our roles here.
24:00 Thou shalt not steal..
24:03 thou shalt not steal... high interest...
24:06 it's going to cost you the blueprint.
24:08 Ivor: Yeah, all right, look at verse 19...
24:13 Matthew 21... verse 19 and the Bible says here,
24:16 this is Jesus speaking, it says,
24:19 and... right... "When he saw a fig tree... "
24:23 let's go to verse 18... "Now in the morning he returned
24:26 into the city and he was hungry.
24:27 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it,
24:30 and found nothing thereon, but leaves only,
24:33 and he said unto it,
24:34 Let no fruit grow on thee henceforth for ever.
24:38 And presently... " the what?
24:39 James and Yvonne: "the fig tree withered away... "
24:42 Ivor: Now this fig tree was a symbol of Jerusalem,
24:45 no fruit on it... it's going to wither away...
24:47 it is going to fall, okay, so, in the first trumpet,
24:52 we have... the destruction of trees...
24:54 now look at what He goes on to say,
24:57 verse 20... "And when the disciples saw it,
24:59 they marveled, saying,
25:01 How soon is the fig tree withered away!
25:03 And Jesus answered and said unto them,
25:05 Verily I say unto you,
25:07 If you got faith and doubt nothing,
25:08 you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree"
25:12 James: But... but... but...
25:16 Ivor: "but also if ye say unto this mountain,
25:20 Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea;
25:23 it shall be done. "
25:25 Yvonne: Oh...
25:27 Ivor: So He... Jesus here...
25:29 James: Is talking about trees and mountains...
25:30 Ivor: He's talking about trees and mountains...
25:31 James: Symbolically... Ivor: He's says,
25:33 "Look, not only is this going to happen to the tree,
25:35 but the mountain also will be cast into the sea. "
25:38 James: Yes. Ivor: "Hey, hey, disciples,
25:40 this tree right now is your enemy
25:43 but look, this enemy is going to fall and guess what?
25:46 Not only will this tree fall
25:47 but when you say to the mountain,
25:49 the mountain is going to fall too... "
25:51 Yvonne: Oh...
25:52 Ivor: So, what can we already assume that...
25:54 whatever this mountain is...
25:55 it must be the second enemy of the people of God
25:59 at some further time when you go down. Yvonne: Wow!
26:01 James: It's going to receive a judgment.
26:03 Ivor: That's going to receive a judgment.
26:04 James: Because the trumpets represent a judgment.
26:05 Ivor: Yes... James: See what Revelation
26:07 is doing is... it's simply breaking open symbolically
26:10 the very words of Christ, the very words of the Bible
26:13 and if we're careful...
26:15 if we read carefully what Christ is saying,
26:17 if we read carefully what the Bible is teaching,
26:19 and when we talk... you know this strange language
26:21 about the fire and about the mountain
26:23 and about the trees and about the grass
26:25 and John the Baptist said,
26:27 "It's going to be hewn down and cast into the fire... "
26:28 and these differ...
26:30 but if we understand what he's talking about,
26:31 he's not talking about literal trees and...
26:33 we're talking in symbolic form,
26:35 these nations and these kingdoms and these powers
26:37 and the day would come and God is so longsuffering,
26:40 because He wants them to see and hear and receive the gospel
26:43 but the day of judgment comes so the disciples, you know,
26:47 "the fig tree right here, you're in awe about that...
26:49 but hey look... not only is that going to happen
26:51 but the mountain is also going to be taken care of,
26:53 you need to focus on the fig,
26:55 I'll take care of those things, you focus on the fig...
26:57 you focus on giving the message. "
26:59 Ivor: Advance... James: Advance.
27:00 Ivor: Move forward... advance...
27:02 James: So that's it... Yvonne: The white horse...
27:03 Ivor: Yes. James: We've almost done...
27:05 now we're starting to move into the second trumpet...
27:08 Ivor: Don't mind the red horse, don't mind it... ah boy!
27:11 James: And people are going to ask us questions,
27:14 and when they ask those questions...
27:16 Jason: That's exactly why they need to e-mail us at
27:19 sss@3abn. org
27:23 James: sss@3abn. org
27:24 and we're looking forward to those questions,
27:26 now we need to close with a word of prayer,
27:27 because we've only got about 30 seconds left,
27:29 Yvonne, would you close us out?
27:30 Yvonne: "Father, we just thank you,
27:32 we just want to say, 'thank you so much
27:34 for what you've written in your Word... '
27:36 and continue oh God to give us insight,
27:38 guide us and direct us we pray in Jesus' name, amen. "
27:41 All: "Amen... "
27:42 James: Amen... so... next program,
27:46 we're going to be looking at second trumpet...
27:48 and all the implications of the second trumpet
27:49 and I think it's going to be pretty easy
27:51 because we're following the outline,
27:53 we're seeing the connections and the lights are going on.
27:57 Yvonne: Praise the Lord, amen...