Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000038A
00:29 We are still there,
00:30 we're still in the toughest section of Revelation,
00:33 you know that... I mean I said 8 but I meant 8-9.
00:36 Yvonne: Why do you feel like this is the toughest section?
00:40 James: Well, it's highly symbolic
00:42 so you've got intense symbolism all through these verses
00:45 and it's almost impossible to take it literally
00:48 because we tried to figure it out literally
00:51 it's just like... like we're getting into...
00:53 we're going to get into locusts and smoke and
00:55 scorpion tails and this is just...
00:57 you can't take that literally
00:58 and just like in these last verses,
01:00 blood and hail and fire mingled with smoke and bitterness
01:02 and it's... it's too much to take literally
01:05 so you have to go back to the Bible and see the symbolism
01:08 and then it kind of opens up.
01:09 Ivor: I'm going to say this,
01:11 I remember, before I became a Christian,
01:13 I think I accidentally may have read this chapter
01:17 and I closed the Book and I was like,
01:19 "No thank you, it's not for me. "
01:22 James: Exactly.
01:24 Ivor: Yeah, scorpions with what?
01:26 I mean, like, locusts with what?
01:27 James: Yeah...
01:29 Ivor: "Let's just hope this is not true. "
01:31 James: It's Sci-Fi and that's the thing about
01:34 Revelation that I think is really cool.
01:35 The Book of Revelation has a little bit of everything
01:38 that would draw the attention of every human on Planet Earth.
01:42 It has Sci-Fi... it has romance...
01:44 we talked about this, it has action, adventure,
01:46 hero, love story, all of those themes
01:49 are packed into this Book
01:50 and discovering what all that means is an adventure,
01:54 now, I'm not sure that everyone's up to that adventure
01:57 but I think at some point or another
01:59 we owe it to ourselves to take that adventure.
02:02 Every single person on Planet Earth owes it to themselves
02:04 to step into the Book of Revelation
02:06 and experience the adventure of discovery
02:10 of Bible prophecy...
02:12 and I'd love to see this program be part of...
02:15 of encouraging people to do that
02:17 so that's really exciting, well let's start
02:18 with a word of prayer... who would like to pray for us?
02:20 Yvonne: Yeah, I'll pray... All right, thank you Yvonne.
02:22 Yvonne: "Father, thank you so very much, once again,
02:24 for being with us and guiding us Lord
02:26 we just pray for wisdom, we pray for your guidance
02:30 and we thank you, Lord, that you've promised to be with us
02:33 so, please bless everyone at this table and everyone watching
02:37 help us all, Lord God, to continue to seek you
02:40 with all our hearts, in Jesus' name, amen. "
02:42 All: "Amen... "
02:43 James: All right Jason, you've got the verse
02:45 and we're going to start with Revelation chapter 9 and verse 1
02:50 we're just going to start with verse 1...
02:52 and just kind of open that up.
02:54 Jason: Okay, "And the fifth angel sounded,
02:56 and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth:
02:59 and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. "
03:02 James: All right Ivor,
03:04 what have we got here, what's going on?
03:05 Ivor: So... this is a... again we said this chapter is like
03:10 super, super... like... difficult.
03:12 James: That's why I handed it to you.
03:13 Ivor: Thank you... and yet...
03:17 one of the things that we... that we have discussed
03:21 time and time again... is this...
03:24 the principle we've laid out in the Book of Revelation
03:27 that as we learn to look at patterns
03:29 and step back and say, "Okay, what are we looking for?"
03:32 We have a better idea of what we're looking for
03:35 because we're allowing prophecy to determine the history
03:38 that we're looking for, right, and so...
03:41 this fifth trumpet... actually I'm going to read
03:44 on a little bit... just a couple of verses randomly
03:48 so you can see what we have going on, verse 2,
03:50 "And he opened the bottomless pit;
03:52 and there arose a smoke out of the pit,
03:54 and the smoke of a... as the smoke of a great furnace;
03:56 and the sun and the air were darkened
03:58 by reason of the smoke of the pit. "
04:00 In verse 3 it talks about locusts coming upon the earth
04:04 in verse 5... "that they should not... "
04:09 it says, "And to them it was given
04:10 that they should not kill them,
04:12 but they should be tormented five months:
04:14 and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion,
04:17 when he striketh a man. "
04:18 Okay, what in the world are we looking for?
04:22 Well, before we even go there, let's step back,
04:25 right, let's ask ourselves a question
04:28 all right, we learned that a trumpet
04:31 represents three things,
04:34 number one... God's people going forward,
04:36 number two... the enemies of God's people
04:39 being removed...
04:40 and number three... the enemy's sword
04:43 being turned upon itself.
04:45 In other words, "What you did...
04:47 what you have done to my people...
04:48 I'm going to have that done unto you. "
04:50 It's a very interesting principle because
04:53 even when we get to the... to the "deadly wound"
04:55 we're going to see... a very...
04:57 it's a unique verse... it says,
04:59 "he that killeth with a sword, must be killed with a sword. "
05:02 in other words... "what you do, comes back to you"
05:05 and that's what we're going to see
05:06 one of the things happening in this 5th trumpet
05:08 but there is something else I want to look at
05:11 the first... the two trumpets before this...
05:14 what were they dealing with?
05:17 One was bitterness... right...
05:20 making the waters bitter
05:23 the other was darkness... turning the light to darkness.
05:28 So, let's pause right there, hold your place here,
05:31 we're going to go to the Book of Isaiah...
05:34 Isaiah chapter 5 and I want you to notice
05:37 verse 20 and 21... okay...
05:42 verse 20 and 21... would you read that for us, Yvonne?
05:47 Yvonne: "Woe unto them that call evil good,
05:49 and good evil;
05:51 that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
05:54 that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
05:57 Ivor: Just stop right there. Yvonne: Wow!
05:59 Ivor: Do you see that? Yvonne: Ah ha...
06:01 Ivor: We just combined two trumpets, right,
06:03 in this one verse, sweet for bitter...
06:05 the light for darkness
06:07 this is exactly what the Papacy does
06:09 okay, during the Dark Ages.
06:11 All right, so, this is a warning to those who do this,
06:15 what is the warning?
06:17 Because if you do this... I want you to listen...
06:19 go ahead and jump down to verse 26
06:21 and I'll read here, verse 26,
06:24 same chapter, "He will lift up an ensign
06:27 to the nations from far,
06:28 and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth:
06:32 and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly... "
06:35 Okay, so, this is God now saying,
06:37 "because... " or a warning to them that do this
06:40 "and as a result of you doing this
06:41 here's what I'm going to do,
06:42 I'm going to bring a nation from far... "
06:45 that's what He's saying and look at verse 27...
06:47 "None shall be weary nor stumble among them;
06:50 none shall slumber nor sleep;
06:52 neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed,
06:55 nor the latchet of their shoes be broken:
06:57 Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent,
07:01 their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint,
07:06 and their wheels like a whirlwind.
07:08 Their roaring shall be like a lion... "
07:11 okay, pause for a second...
07:13 what do we just see happen in the fifth trumpet?
07:17 There's this army of locusts and they are described
07:21 like... "roaring like lions... "
07:23 Yvonne: Hmmm... Ivor: Okay.
07:25 James: But we didn't read that, I don't think.
07:27 Ivor: Do you want to read it, I thought we had touched on it.
07:31 James: No, we didn't touch on it
07:32 because it's not until we get down to verse 8.
07:36 Ivor: So verse 8, okay, could you read verse 8 for me?
07:38 James: "And they had hair as the hair of women,
07:40 and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. "
07:42 Ivor: Okay, very good, so watch this,
07:44 under the third and fourth trumpet,
07:46 you have people putting bitter for sweet,
07:49 dark for light, darkness for light...
07:52 and then we go to Isaiah 5:20,
07:55 we hear God using this... this exact term
07:57 "Woe unto you that do this, because you do this,
08:00 guess what I'm going to do,
08:01 I'm going to send a nation upon you... "
08:03 and then he begins to describe a nation,
08:04 "They shall be like roaring lions... "
08:06 this nation that is just... that's coming as a vengeance
08:10 or as a judgment upon those that put bitter for sweet
08:13 and darkness for light.
08:15 Yvonne: Hmmm... Ivor: Let's keep reading...
08:16 look at verse 29 of Isaiah 5,
08:17 "they shall roar like young lions:
08:19 yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey,
08:22 and shall carry it away safely, and none shall deliver it.
08:26 And in that day they shall roar against them
08:28 like the roaring of the seas: and if one look unto the land,
08:32 behold darkness and sorrow,
08:34 and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof. "
08:38 So here He's talking about an army coming
08:42 that would, like, darken the lights...
08:45 darken the light of heaven,
08:46 He's saying, "This is the result of turning
08:49 darkness to light... bitter to sweet... "
08:51 so we go back to the Book of Revelation
08:54 and we simply ask ourselves the question,
08:56 Okay, we know the Papacy turned light to darkness,
09:03 we know they turned bitterness... to...
09:06 sweetness to bitterness so if the trumpet represents
09:11 an enemy... coming upon... or an outside force coming upon
09:16 and the sword being turned upon them,
09:18 if we notice... the trumpet represents
09:23 a punishment as a result of their turning
09:27 lightness to darkness... light to darkness...
09:29 can we look in history to see
09:32 was there ever any army that came against the Papacy
09:40 as a result of their idolatry?
09:42 And guess what the answer is?
09:43 The answer is obvious, absolutely...
09:46 history shows us that it was the Nation of Islam, if you will,
09:53 the rise of Islam as a power...
09:56 that actually when they came upon the scene,
09:59 one of their sole purposes was to war against
10:02 what they considered, "idolatry"
10:04 James: Idol worship... Ivor: Idol worship...
10:06 so what you have happening under this 5th trumpet
10:10 when the fifth angel sounded,
10:12 "And I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth... "
10:15 again, we have a fallen angel,
10:16 now, there's some question as to whether this fallen angel
10:20 is the same fallen angel back in the
10:23 3rd... 4th trumpet is it?
10:25 James: Third... Ivor: Third trumpet...
10:27 but nonetheless... it's a fallen angel,
10:29 when this fallen angel opens up the bottomless pit,
10:34 smoke arises out of the pit as well as this "army of locusts"
10:39 and this army of locusts is commanding...
10:42 look at verse 4 and we're kind of just...
10:45 again just... kind of looking at a big picture here,
10:47 "It was commanded them
10:49 that they should not hurt the grass of the earth,
10:51 neither any green thing,
10:53 neither any tree; but only those men
10:55 which have not the seal of God
10:57 in their foreheads. " James: Hmmm...
10:58 Ivor: Okay, so this is... this power is coming upon the scene
11:03 solely for the purpose
11:05 of attacking those that are not God's people.
11:11 Okay, and who would that represent?
11:13 Again, that would represent the Papal System
11:16 that was in place at that time.
11:18 Something very interesting about this as we look at the...
11:21 at this bottomless pit opening up...
11:23 and the smoke comes out of the pit,
11:26 it darkens the sun... verse 2...
11:28 "the sun and the air were darkened
11:31 by reason of the smoke of the pit. "
11:33 Now, James, you were sharing earlier that...
11:36 in the previous program that the sun represented...
11:39 James: Christ's righteousness...
11:41 "the Sun of righteousness... " Malachi 4:2
11:43 Ivor: The air...
11:44 James: The air? Ivor: Hmmm...
11:46 James: There are a couple of verses that make it very clear
11:48 that the air represents the Holy Spirit...
11:49 these verses are in Acts chapter 2 verses 2 and 4...
11:52 I'll just read them... "And suddenly there came a sound
11:56 from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind,
11:58 and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
12:01 And they were filled with the Holy Spirit. "
12:02 So you have the wind... Holy Spirit.
12:05 Jason: We should also look at John chapter 3 verse 8
12:08 where it says, "The wind bloweth where it listeth,
12:12 and thou hearest the sound thereof,
12:14 but canst not tell whence it commeth,
12:16 and whither it goeth:
12:17 so is every one that is born of the Spirit. "
12:20 James: Yeah, so that's another verse...
12:22 good one Jason, that just kind of ties in the "wind"
12:25 or the "air" as a representation of the Holy Spirit.
12:28 Ivor: Right... so... so... look at the principle here...
12:30 James: Spiritual darkness... Ivor: Spiritual darkness...
12:33 right... they're attacking...
12:34 the Papacy... remember... they were against the truth,
12:38 they were against the Sun of righteousness,
12:41 the very thing that... that they darkened
12:44 under this fifth trumpet... this power comes up
12:48 out of the abyss... this darkness happens...
12:51 the smoke darkens the sun and the air,
12:53 now, I don't know how much you know about Islam
12:56 but they believe that Jesus
12:57 who we just identified as the Sun of righteousness,
13:00 is a prophet but that He is not the Son of God.
13:03 Okay, they don't believe in the Holy Spirit
13:05 and what's interesting about this is that
13:07 the Papacy was a Church-State entity persecuting... right...
13:14 so what does God do?
13:15 Okay, because you are standing in the way of my people,
13:19 and, and, and trying to block them out,
13:22 I'm going to bring another power upon you...
13:24 that is just like you...
13:26 a church... because that's what Islam is...
13:29 it is a spiritual... it's a religio-political entity
13:32 that denies who Jesus is... denies the Holy Spirit
13:36 and so, just as we saw in the story of Gideon...
13:39 when the trumpet was blown,
13:40 these enemies turned their swords upon one another,
13:43 here you have dark forces, if you will,
13:46 turning their forces upon one another
13:49 in Islam... coming against the Papacy...
13:52 now, even though we just
13:54 said that Islam attacked the Papacy,
13:55 it was actually for a good reason,
13:57 because what we're going to see is that,
13:59 we're going to get into these... in fact...
14:01 let's go to the Book of Joel chapter 2,
14:02 I'm going to show you something here
14:04 and James, you can jump in on this... as we read,
14:06 I'm going to just pick up with the first two verses here,
14:09 James: Joel chapter what? Ivor: Joel chapter 2
14:12 Joel chapter 2 but... what we're going to find
14:15 is that Islam... the Ottoman Empire...
14:17 which is what we're talking about here
14:22 actually was a... was a "safe haven"
14:26 for Protestants... when they came on the scene
14:30 because, they had a special... they were like,
14:34 "Oh you guys are against the papacy?
14:36 Because they are idolaters... " that's what they thought of
14:39 the Catholic System... and so, whoever was against it,
14:42 they were actually... for... in other words,
14:46 they actually protected...
14:48 offered protection and a safe haven
14:50 when many of these people were being persecuted
14:52 under the Roman System...
14:54 they could actually... even though they were...
14:55 this was an Islamic entity...
15:01 they found religious liberty
15:03 under Islam... which is a very interesting revelation.
15:06 Yvonne: Wow... that is interesting.
15:08 Ivor: It's almost as though, again God brought them
15:10 on the scene to give breathing space to the Protestants.
15:12 Yvonne: Right...
15:13 Ivor: In fact, we're going to see
15:15 is that... the Papacy was trying to stamp out
15:17 the Protestant Reformation
15:19 and as a result of Islam coming up on the scene,
15:21 they had to direct their attention to Islam
15:24 which allowed the Protestant Reformation time to grow...
15:29 remember the blowing of the trumpet... advance...
15:31 their enemies turned their swords upon one another,
15:34 let's look at Joel chapter 2 and I want you to notice this,
15:37 Joel chapter 2 verse 1,
15:39 it says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,
15:42 sound an alarm in my holy mountain:
15:44 let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:
15:47 for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand... "
15:50 remember we talked about how
15:52 when Peter was speaking on the Day of Pentecost,
15:54 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,
15:56 he quotes Joel chapter 2, "Blow a trumpet in Zion... "
16:00 a warning... why?
16:02 "a day of darkness and gloominess... "
16:05 a day of... what?
16:07 "Clouds and thick darkness,
16:09 as the morning spread upon the mountains:
16:12 a great people and a strong;
16:14 there has not been ever the like,
16:17 neither shall there be any more even after it,
16:19 even to the years of many generations.
16:21 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them...
16:24 and the land is as the garden of Eden... "
16:27 I'm sorry... "A fire devoureth before them;
16:30 behind them a flame burneth:
16:31 the land is as the garden of Eden before them,
16:34 and behind them a desolate wilderness;
16:37 and nothing shall escape them. "
16:39 "The appearance of them... "
16:40 and that term is interesting right there James,
16:42 because the appearance of them
16:44 is almost identical to the description of the locust
16:48 in Revelation... "the appearance of that... "
16:50 James: Yeah, but this army in chapter 1
16:53 is actually identified as an army of locusts.
16:55 Ivor: That's right... in chapter 1 verse 4...
16:57 in the Book of Joel, right? James: Yeah... why?
17:00 Ivor: Joel, same book but different chapter.
17:02 James: Yeah, verse 4, verse 16
17:04 and those verses identify this as the "locust army"
17:08 in the King James' it's, "the palmerworm"
17:11 and then the "palmerworm... the locust"
17:12 but in other verses in the Bible it's "the chewing locust"
17:15 "the swarming locust" "the crawling locust"
17:17 and "the consuming locust" they're all locusts...
17:21 and that locust terminology, that locust symbolism
17:24 is what is being borrowed in the Book of Revelation
17:27 so in the Book of Revelation, God is saying,
17:29 "Okay, here's an army of locusts go back to the Book of Joel
17:32 and look at the history, okay, here's the history. "
17:34 Isaiah 5... you already referenced and Joel
17:38 are both speaking prophetically of the army of Nebuchadnezzar.
17:42 The Nebuchadnezzar's army... the Chaldeans...
17:47 came against Israel because they were unfaithful
17:50 they compromised, they were worshipping idols,
17:53 they were obscuring the truth of the Bible and prophecy
17:56 they were persecuting God's "faithful people"
17:58 like Jeremiah and others... killed Isaiah,
18:01 put Jeremiah in a pit, the Babylonians come,
18:04 the Chaldeans come, Nebuchadnezzar comes
18:06 and they rescue Jeremiah, in a sense, from the pit,
18:08 and so, really what God is doing in Revelation chapter 9
18:12 is He's reminding us,
18:14 now here's what's something that's even more interesting...
18:16 the literal army of Nebuchadnezzar
18:18 and the Babylonians the Chaldeans...
18:21 came from the same location as the army of Islam.
18:25 The nations and tribes of Islam in the Middle East there,
18:28 same location... present-day Iran...
18:32 is the country from which...
18:34 or Iraq is the country from which we find
18:36 Nebuchadnezzar, et cetera, coming... way back in the day
18:40 so you have these... this same territory
18:43 and God is speaking... using the same symbols to describe
18:46 this same type of judgment that He's bringing
18:49 like He brought against His people,
18:50 He's bringing against the faithful...
18:52 I mean, against the... those who've been unfaithful
18:54 and when Nebuchadnezzar came, do you know what he did?
18:56 He protected God's faithful people like Jeremiah,
19:01 He protected... and just like you had noted
19:03 that Islam actually was a protection and a safe haven
19:06 for the Reformers...
19:08 that's what Nebuchadnezzar did,
19:10 he protected His faithful people.
19:11 Even Daniel and his friends were exalted to
19:15 prominent positions under the rulership of Nebuchadnezzar.
19:18 Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm... absolutely, so... I mean again,
19:21 as we look... I mean... if you were just...
19:24 if I were just to say, "This is Islam... "
19:26 without giving a reason why, you would need to...
19:31 you would say, "Well, how did you get Islam?"
19:32 Yvonne: Right.
19:33 Ivor: We're looking at locusts, we're looking at...
19:35 how do you get Islam out of this?
19:37 But when we look at the principles and say,
19:39 "Okay, we're looking for God's judgment"
19:41 because we know that trumpets represent judgment...
19:44 so, we're looking for God's judgment upon the Papacy
19:46 because we know the Papacy...
19:48 is that power reigning during the Dark Ages, this is...
19:50 this is clearly an army... it's an army of locusts...
19:53 let's go back to the Bible,
19:54 "Wow, the story of Nebuchadnezzar... "
19:56 Nebuchadnezzar used a... a Gentile nation
19:58 right, a nation that was not his own...
20:01 they were not his own people but he uses this Gentile nation
20:04 as a scorch upon those who are professing his name,
20:08 why? Because they're turning
20:10 sweetness to bitterness and light to darkness.
20:15 And as a result, He says, "I'm bringing a nation upon you"
20:18 so now, all they have to do is okay, say, "Hmmm...
20:20 let's see... was it the Chinese that came against the Papacy
20:26 around this time period of the Dark Ages?"
20:29 No... were they the Incans?
20:31 no, no, no... then who? Let me go to my history... oh!
20:35 whoa... there was a nation that came against the Papacy...
20:40 and it was Islam... it was the Ottoman Empire
20:42 wow! they did... they were so numerous
20:45 they were like an army of locusts
20:48 and wow, did they just focus on those that did not have
20:52 the seal of God in their foreheads?"
20:54 James: Hmmm...
20:55 Ivor: "Yeah... " because we know that those
20:57 who had rejected Christ, rejected the Holy Spirit
21:01 were turning... bitter...
21:02 they're not going to have the seal of God, and guess what?
21:04 In the writings of the Ottoman Empire
21:07 you will find that they had...
21:09 they had actually written letters to Martin Luther
21:12 saying, "You have a safe haven...
21:14 we will help you and assist you"
21:17 and this is why Martin Luther believed...
21:20 Martin Luther, himself, believed
21:23 that Islam had been allowed by God
21:25 to give the Protestant Reformation time to flourish
21:29 because the Papacy... trying to destroy...
21:32 trying to destroy the Protestant Reformation
21:35 had to turn their attention on Islam
21:37 thus, allowing the Protestant Reformation time to advance
21:42 and not be stamped out. Yvonne: Wow!
21:43 James: You know, there's another thing here
21:45 that I think is really interesting
21:46 when you look at the smoke with the pit,
21:49 there's a verse in the Old Testament
21:51 that identifies smoke as image or idol worship
21:57 it's in Hosea 13:2 and 3 and it says,
22:00 "Now they sin more and more, and have made for themselves
22:03 molten images... idols of their silver,
22:08 according to their skill, all of it the work of the craftsmen:
22:11 they say of them,
22:12 Let the men who sacrifice kiss the calves.
22:14 Therefore they shall be like smoke from a chimney. "
22:17 The smoke of a great furnace... smoke like a chimney...
22:20 those who are worshipping idols, the Bible says,
22:23 will be like the smoke of a chimney.
22:25 When the Muslims came out, they specifically...
22:27 as Ivor was saying,
22:29 they didn't harm those who had the seal of God
22:31 and specifically the command was,
22:34 "Those who do not worship idols...
22:36 those who do not worship idols... "
22:37 they believed that idol worship was wrong,
22:39 they still believe that idol worship is wrong, as we do,
22:42 it's a violation of the Commandments of God...
22:44 worshipping of images and idols...
22:46 and so they gave a specific command,
22:47 now those who were sealed with the seal of God,
22:49 you know what the Bible says how we receive the seal of God?
22:53 In Ephesians it says that we're sealed by the Holy Spirit,
22:56 we're sealed by the Holy Spirit, and it's a sealing in the gospel
23:00 and so, Ephesians 1 identifies us
23:02 as being sealed by the Holy Spirit
23:03 which is... which is the third person of the Godhead,
23:06 we believe that... and... and, therefore,
23:08 not worshipping idols
23:10 is synonymous with being sealed with the Holy Spirit
23:13 which we know is synonymous with darkening the air and the light
23:17 but when we don't worship idols,
23:18 we're sealed with the Holy Spirit
23:20 so these people here that were worshipping idols
23:23 were the target of the Muslims, in a sense,
23:26 and those who refused to worship idols were left alone.
23:29 Ivor: It is what the crusades were about,
23:33 conflict between the Papal System and Islam.
23:37 James: Now here's something else that's interesting,
23:38 Nebuchadnezzar... in Joel chapter 2
23:41 God said, "This is my army,
23:43 this is my scourge, this is my army"
23:45 but Nebuchadnezzar didn't have the light,
23:46 he didn't understand who God was
23:48 or prophecies or... he wasn't like Israel
23:51 who had all that light but God used him,
23:53 same with Islam... you have a power here,
23:55 that definitely is not in harmony
23:58 with what we understand concerning Christ, for example,
24:00 being the Son of God... concerning the gospel...
24:02 but yet God uses them to bring the scourge...
24:04 so... so... all we have to do is we go back to the Old Testament
24:07 and we look at the locust imagery
24:08 that was used for Nebuchadnezzar who didn't have all the light
24:11 but was used as a scourge against God's unfaithful people
24:14 and protected the faithful like Jeremiah
24:17 you go to the New Testament, the Book of Revelation,
24:19 ah ha... history is being repeated...
24:20 you have another "Locust Power" that doesn't have all the light
24:23 but they're used as a scourge against God's unfaithful people
24:26 and they protect... seal of God...
24:27 those who have the seal of God.
24:29 Ivor: And here is something important to remember as well
24:31 because you're sitting at home and reading this yourself,
24:33 you're going...
24:34 "All right... hair like the hair of women,
24:36 locust... what could that be?"
24:38 Well, remember, in the Book of Joel
24:41 and in the Book of Isaiah,
24:43 the description that's given this...
24:45 that they're an army of locusts, you thrust them through...
24:48 nothing's going to happen to them,
24:49 it wasn't literally saying that they're not going to die,
24:52 it was simply God saying,
24:54 "Look, this army is going to be scary,
24:57 okay, you're not going to defeat them"
24:59 and so He's using... just symbolic language
25:02 to describe, "Oh, the army of Nebuchadnezzar"
25:05 right, so, when we read Revelation...
25:07 a lot of people are reading it,
25:08 "Okay, what could that be?" Because at the end of time
25:10 there's going to be some really crazy things... so...
25:12 "Yeah, there will be locusts
25:13 that look like women... have women's... "
25:15 no... it's God, simply describing...
25:19 and that's why... we were kind of talking about it,
25:20 we want to get into all the...
25:22 "Well, what does this mean? What does...?"
25:24 No, the big picture is... this is Islam...
25:27 Islam is being... is the army being described
25:29 that is going to attack the Papacy
25:31 and thus give God's people time and space to advance.
25:35 James: But I think it is interesting don't you, Ivor,
25:38 that there were some certain characteristics
25:41 like the long hair... okay, the turbans...
25:44 and then you have... you have the...
25:47 the breastplates that were breastplates of iron
25:51 with the sound of their wings...
25:52 the sound of many chariots as of the horsemen running the battle,
25:54 the horses were the thing that they used,
25:55 they used horses
25:57 and there are certain characteristics here, I think,
26:01 that are significant to help us to identify these...
26:05 the specifics of who this was,
26:08 not just the history... that's good too,
26:10 not just the fact that it's repeated,
26:12 that's good too, all of that is important
26:15 but then you... God is so merciful
26:17 because He actually comes down to the very...
26:19 some of the very characteristics
26:21 that will help us to identify this army.
26:23 Ivor: Yes... Yvonne: Hmmm...
26:24 James: I agree with you Ivor,
26:26 we don't want to get into... to... all of the details
26:28 we can't bog down on that so we've got this basic outline,
26:33 oh, and I like this other one, in verse 10 it says,
26:35 "and their tails were like scorpions
26:37 and there were stings in their tails
26:40 and their powers to hurt men five months... "
26:42 where's the other one that I wanted to look at?
26:45 Let's see... because I remember
26:50 as I read the history of this, it was talking about
26:54 how that the Muslims were the first ones...
26:57 I don't know if you're aware of this,
26:59 to use gunpowder in the battle...
27:02 when they took down Constantinople...
27:03 that was one of the things that they did
27:05 so there's another aspect here about...
27:07 about the description that I really think that's...
27:09 we'll pick up on this... we're out of time right now
27:11 but we'll pick up on this, we haven't...
27:13 we've just begun to actually get into this,
27:15 we're the basic overall description
27:17 and then we're going to get into a time prophecy
27:20 and some of the details that fit that Muslim Empire
27:22 that I think are really profound and prophetic.
27:25 So, what are people going to do if they want to get ahold of us?
27:29 Jason: They should send us an e- mail at sss@3abn. org
27:33 James: sss@3abn. org and we want to roll their
27:37 video submissions... so they can actually be on 3abn
27:41 without even leaving their home... pretty much.
27:45 Yvonne: That's right... that's great.
27:49 James: So we're going to close it up right here,
27:51 we'll pick it up again... kind of summarize this first part
27:54 and then we'll ride into the second one when we get back.
27:57 Jason: Sounds good... James: Sounds good.
27:59 Yvonne: Yeah...