Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000040A
00:29 Okay, we're picking up where we left off,
00:31 we kind of had a cliffhanger right there
00:33 and we talked here in the sixth woe
00:36 or... excuse me... the 6th trumpet
00:39 or the 2nd woe about the development
00:41 of the Ottoman Empire under Othman
00:43 and for leading Generals of this vast multitude
00:48 of power under Muslims... the Muslim power
00:53 as it comes together and it seeks now
00:56 not just to having incursions into the Eastern Roman Empire
01:00 but it actually sets its eyes on taking over Constantinople...
01:03 the seat of that empire...
01:05 that's what we're looking at right now
01:06 not just in prophecy but in history
01:08 and so, we're going to look at those time periods,
01:10 we're going to identify them from the Bible
01:13 prophetically and then put some dates on them
01:16 and see if the dates fit the history...
01:18 the record that we have in the annals of history
01:20 and then go through the rest of these verses
01:22 and try to identify
01:23 some of the points that God is making
01:26 in these verses that are really important for us
01:28 so that we can finish up this prophecy
01:30 and move on to Revelation chapter 10.
01:31 Yvonne: Yes...
01:33 James: This is kind of like the second woe, part 2.
01:35 Yvonne: Laughing...
01:37 James: All right, so, let's start with a word of prayer
01:39 Jason, you want to lead us out? Jason: Sure. James: Thank you.
01:40 Jason: "Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you so much
01:42 for bringing us back together to study your Word,
01:44 we ask that you would be with us
01:46 and your Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth
01:48 and be with our Viewers and Listeners as well
01:50 help them to break out their Bibles
01:52 and to study it for themselves, in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
01:55 All: "Amen... "
01:56 James: So, we kind of left off where we have the
01:59 the second woe starting with this angel
02:04 that is coming from the four horns of the golden altar
02:07 and we identified that as leading us to the Holy Place
02:11 and, therefore, this prophecy is going to be taking place
02:14 in concluding pre-1844, that's really significant,
02:18 it gives us the timeframe of where we are
02:20 and then we looked at the idea
02:24 that there are these four angels that are being loosed
02:26 that are bound in the river Euphrates,
02:27 now I wanted to give a reference for that
02:29 and the reference I want us to look at right now
02:31 is found in Jeremiah 51
02:33 and Jason, if you have those verses for us...
02:36 Jeremiah 51... let's read verses 60 and 63.
02:38 Jason: Okay, starting at verse 60,
02:40 "So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil
02:43 that should come upon Babylon, even all these words
02:47 that are written against Babylon.
02:48 And it shall be when thou hast made an end
02:52 of reading this book,
02:54 that thou shalt bind a stone to it,
02:55 and cast it into the midst of the Euphrates. "
02:58 All right, so, the interesting part about this is
03:01 that Jeremiah is writing a book about all of the evils
03:05 that are going to come upon Babylon,
03:06 Babylon was the nation that God used to bring chastisement
03:11 to His apostate people in the Old Testament
03:15 and the Babylonian nation is the same nation
03:18 that God describes as locusts in Joel chapter 2,
03:21 same nation... and so... here's a nation that God raises up
03:25 and He brings against His people and then God says...
03:29 and in turn, they're going to receive these judgments etc
03:33 so, it's interesting because Babylon is a code name
03:37 for God's apostate people in the end of time
03:41 and we're going to see this
03:42 as we get into our 4th prophetic cycle
03:44 that Babylon becomes the code name
03:46 for the end-time apostate church... Christian church...
03:50 and so in Revelation chapter 9 when the 6th angel sounds
03:53 "loose the four angels that are bound in the river Euphrates"
03:56 reminds us of the judgments against Babylon
03:59 that were thrown in the river Euphrates,
04:01 they were written out, tied to a stone
04:04 and thrown in the river Euphrates
04:05 "loose the four angels that are bound in the river Euphrates"
04:08 so, here we have the very...
04:10 the very same connection...
04:13 God is making a connection with the Old Testament
04:14 and these judgments that are coming against Babylon
04:17 Spiritual Babylon being the Papacy or the Christian church
04:21 that's apostatized from Christ... from God...
04:23 and the judgments are being loosed against it
04:26 and that's exactly what we see historically,
04:28 we've already established that but what we're seeing here is
04:31 these judgments that are coming against them
04:33 and it says in verse 15, "The four angels were loosed
04:36 which were prepared for an hour, a day, a month and a year
04:41 to slay the third part of men" now, in earlier verses,
04:45 we know that they will want to torment them
04:48 and we... we identified a specific date
04:50 July 27, 1299... when the torment began,
04:53 and when they started work... but now what happens is
04:56 when the emperor... and I just want to clarify this
04:58 because I may have misstated this last time...
05:01 when the Emperor John Palaeologus deceased,
05:04 he didn't ascend to the throne, he died in 1449
05:08 so he dies in 1449 and there's no one really...
05:12 I mean, I should say Constantine the 13th
05:14 actually takes his place
05:16 but there's no real power and authority,
05:18 it's... it's... it's losing...
05:19 it's diminishing it's power and authority
05:21 the Eastern Roman Empire is... under Constantine the 13th
05:24 and Constantine says, "You know what?
05:25 I can only ascend with permission of the Sultan... "
05:29 the Leader of the Ottoman Empire the Leader of the Muslims,
05:32 "I can only ascend to the throne with his permission"
05:34 so he gets his permission, so in a sense...
05:36 he has acquiesced his authority to this other power
05:41 which gives him permission but decides... a few years later...
05:45 "I want Constantinople... "
05:46 so now, they're just not tormenting,
05:48 they're going to take it out, they're going to kill it,
05:50 they're going to die, the third party...
05:52 those who have apostatized the third part...
05:54 are going to die... and so... they besieged the city,
05:57 this is the first time, I think, we're told
06:00 that they used cannon and gunpowder in war,
06:03 they attack Constantinople and by 1443...
06:06 July 27, 1443... I believe it is no, excuse me,
06:10 July 27, 1449 is when he ascends Constantine the 13th ascends
06:14 and then by 1453, Constantinople falls.
06:18 So we date it to July 27, 1449...
06:22 that's when we date the... this prophetic timeline
06:26 because that's when Constantine the 13th basically
06:31 relinquished his authority to the Ottomans... to the Muslims
06:35 so, from that date we're going to look at
06:37 an hour, a day, a month and a year we're going to look at
06:43 the year, the month, the day and the hour
06:45 of this prophetic timeline.
06:47 Now, when we get into prophecy we know that in the Bible
06:52 it's a 30 month period, Biblically... we go by 31,
06:57 we have 28 or 29 depending on what February looks like,
07:01 but in the Bible, it's 30 days...
07:03 30 days, 30 days, 30 days, that's the cycle,
07:05 the lunar cycle that the Bible's set on so
07:07 when we look at a year...
07:09 we're looking at 30-days-to-a-month times 12...
07:13 so we have for... one prophetic year
07:16 I'm looking at a verse here, it's verse 15...
07:19 "the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour,
07:22 a day, a month, and a year... "
07:25 so, the hour would equal 124th of a literal year... 15 days
07:29 one prophetic day would equal one literal year
07:32 one prophetic month would equal 30 literal years
07:35 and one prophetic year would equal 360 literal years
07:38 now we base this on Ezekiel 4 verse 6,
07:41 we want to look at that verse
07:43 there are a couple of verses here,
07:44 but I think if we could just look at one of these...
07:47 Yvonne, can you look up Ezekiel 4 verse 6 for us?
07:49 Yvonne: Yes...
07:50 "And when thou hast accomplished them,
07:53 lie again on thy right side,
07:55 and thou shalt bear the iniquity
07:57 of the house of Judah forty days:
07:59 I have appointed thee each day for a year. "
08:02 James: Now what's significant about this is
08:05 Ezekiel is demonstrating a siege that's coming against Jerusalem
08:11 by order of the Lord,
08:13 so this is a prophecy predicting a siege
08:16 and God is in this prediction... this prophecy,
08:18 He's telling every day that you're going to be
08:21 laying there before the city... is equal to a year
08:23 now we have another siege that's going to come
08:27 against Constantinople and in the context of
08:30 it going down and this... in a sense... this judgment
08:36 trumpet judgment coming against them,
08:38 we have this prophetic timeline
08:40 that comes out to actually 390 literal years
08:44 when you do the day-for-a-year principle and 15 days,
08:47 which is really amazing when you think about it
08:51 because... because God is putting Himself out there
08:54 it's one thing to make a prophecy that's based on years
08:58 and it can be fulfilled certain years
09:01 but this one has to be fulfilled in years and days
09:03 15 days... if it's 14 days it doesn't work
09:06 if it's 16 days it doesn't work so what it's basically saying is
09:10 these powers would assault and take down
09:13 after Constantine the 13th submits to them
09:17 from that date until they in turn submit back
09:22 to the Christian nations,
09:23 they would be in control for 391 years and 15 days.
09:28 James: From July 27, 1449... that takes us to August 11, 1840
09:36 August 11, 1840... what happens in August 11, 1840?
09:41 Basically what happens is the Muslim powers
09:45 have had some in-fighting
09:46 and the Pasha... the Leader of Egypt,
09:49 whose name is... in our understanding, Muhammad Ali,
09:54 Muhammed Ali... Muhammed Ali...
09:56 he has rebelled against the Ottoman Empire,
09:59 and even though it's just one little nation there,
10:02 he's actually doing them harm, he's taken out the navy,
10:05 he's in control... and so what the Turks do is...
10:09 they do kind of the same thing that Constantine the 13th did...
10:11 they rush to Europe and they beg the help of...
10:15 of London and Russia and the powers of Europe,
10:19 the four main powers of Europe,
10:20 they go into a Conference for many days and...
10:23 and the European Powers say,
10:25 "We're going to help you, we're going to protect you
10:29 if Mohammad Ali continues his hostilities towards you,
10:32 we'll back you up"
10:34 so basically, what the Ottoman Empire is doing,
10:36 it's submitting itself to the Christian Powers
10:39 just like the Christian Powers submitted themselves
10:41 to the Ottoman Powers some 391 years before
10:46 now we've got to come to the day so what happens is
10:49 Rafat... this Ambassador for the Ottomans...
10:53 he leaves London on a steamer and he heads down to Egypt
10:57 to give... place into the hands of Mohammad Ali...
11:02 to place into the hands of this Pasha... the agreement
11:07 and when he gets there... he gets there on August 11, 1840
11:13 the very day...
11:15 the very day that this prophecy was to be fulfilled - he arrives
11:19 now he's put in quarantine... he doesn't hand it to him
11:21 but he arrives there... he's there
11:23 so we see an exact fulfillment of this prophecy
11:26 because what happens in the end is
11:29 Muhammad Ali sees him... the Pasha sees him eventually
11:34 and eventually he acquiesces in outward... to the decrees...
11:42 to the agreement that's made with European powers
11:44 and the prophecy is fulfilled... it's over.
11:47 So we see a remarkable fulfillment of prophecy
11:49 in fact when this was first preached
11:51 by a man named Josiah Litch,
11:53 he did not preach as we are doing... he didn't say,
11:55 "Okay, well this 'time prophecy' applies this way"
11:57 even though there were many theologians that say,
12:00 "No, it applies punctiliarly, it's not applying cumulatively"
12:02 this prophecy... he didn't...
12:03 he was not looking back at history,
12:06 he was not calculating from historical references,
12:09 "Well in this date... this happened
12:10 in this date... this happened"
12:12 he was in a sense... but when he came to the date 1840,
12:16 August 11, 1840... he was looking forward,
12:18 the date hadn't happened... nothing had happened yet
12:20 he was still looking forward because
12:23 when he published his first article on this,
12:26 it was... the year was 1838... it was two years before...
12:30 and he had many different
12:32 clarifications that he made
12:34 the differences that he made when he went through this
12:36 but he eventually settled on August 11, 1840
12:40 and when it happened, atheists, agnostics...
12:43 people of no faith or belief were converted
12:47 they wrote him letters,
12:49 he received 100s of letters from people all over the world
12:51 who had... because of his predictions
12:54 and his prophecies that were widely proclaimed
12:56 who had been watching and when they saw
12:58 the arrival of this Ambassador on the very day
13:00 that this prophecy was to be fulfilled,
13:04 and he arrived there... and in a few days
13:07 the Pasha received this summons from the Powers...
13:10 this Edict from the Powers that basically said,
13:13 "You touch these guys,
13:15 they're under our control right now,
13:17 so you touch them... you touch us...
13:19 you mess with them... you mess with us. "
13:20 So it was a reversal
13:22 of the very way the prophecy was enacted... to the very date.
13:23 Yvonne: Wow!
13:25 James: It's an incredible fulfillment. Yvonne: It is.
13:27 Ivor: I want to kind of set this again in context of...
13:32 again, because some of the Listeners will be like,
13:35 "Okay, well... so all this history... this detailed history
13:39 man, what does this... why... what does this mean?"
13:45 So, let's remember that these trumpets are designed to
13:52 allow God's people to advance, okay,
13:54 give sail, if you will, give wind to the Movement
14:04 right, okay, we've got to be encouraged,
14:06 we've got to advance, one of the things we can look at
14:08 immediately is that... when that prophecy was fulfilled,
14:11 guess what?
14:12 The Movement of God got larger, in other words, it was like,
14:18 "Oh yeah, we are right,
14:20 this is a vindication of the Bible... "
14:22 and the other thing...
14:24 because what was being preached at this time,
14:27 was that Christ was going to return in 1844
14:30 this... the fulfillment of this prophecy,
14:33 was almost like... "Advance...
14:36 yeah, yeah, yeah, the time prophecies are right"
14:40 I mean, we've been looking at this thing of 1844
14:43 what we've really had...
14:45 we'd actually had one prophecy before
14:49 that really gave sail, if you will, to the Movement,
14:52 that was 1798... because that prophecy was fulfilled
14:56 in a very similar way, it's very interesting.
14:58 James: A-day-for-a-year principle.
14:59 Ivor: Oh, yeah, a- day-for-a-year principle.
15:00 James: It's been vindicated in all these applications.
15:02 Ivor: Before... I think it was 1797...
15:09 in 1796... there were Scholars who were writing
15:13 that if Bible prophecy is accurate,
15:15 by 1798... next year...
15:18 the Papacy will receive a deadly wound,
15:20 so what's interesting...
15:22 if you look at both of these prophecies,
15:25 the 1798 Prophecy and the 1840 Prophecy,
15:29 both of them solidified the understanding
15:33 of the day-year principle
15:34 which caused the people of God to advance
15:36 now, let me tell you why that's so significant,
15:40 because 1798 would be the "deadly wound" of who?
15:44 James: The Papacy.
15:45 Ivor: The Papacy...
15:47 1840 seems like the deadly wound of who?
15:50 The Ottoman Empire, okay, very interesting
15:54 sounds like both of them received deadly wounds
15:56 within 42 years of each other, here's why that's significant,
16:01 when did the Papacy come into power?
16:04 538 A.D.
16:06 When did Islam come into power?
16:08 622 A.D.
16:10 Within 84 years of each other,
16:13 you've got these two Powers rising on the scene,
16:15 okay, the Papacy first... Islam second...
16:19 both of them are religio-political powers
16:22 okay, both of them deny Christ, not the Holy Spirit
16:30 but God uses one of them to help shut the other one down,
16:35 because the other one... the Papacy is...
16:38 what is it doing? It's attacking the people of God
16:40 so God says, "Okay, you're a religio-political power,
16:43 you're using these powers against my people,
16:45 I'm going to allow a power to rise,
16:47 84 years after they do...
16:49 and they are going to be a thorn in your side for the whole time
16:53 so, when the Papacy shuts down,
16:58 it's... the deadly wound, it's as though God's saying,
17:00 James: "The thorn is not needed anymore. "
17:02 Ivor: Yeah, "The thorn is not needed anymore,
17:03 we're going to shut you down
17:05 but by-the-way as we're shutting both of you down,
17:07 we're going to use this as a trumpet, as it were,
17:11 so that God's people can go, 'Uh, let's advance... '"
17:14 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, wow.
17:16 James: "Come out of the wilderness... "
17:18 Ivor: "Yeah, we're okay, we got it,
17:20 look at these prophecies, they are being fulfilled,
17:22 we understand that this is vindication
17:24 of what we are believing so, we're going to advance"
17:27 and this understanding
17:29 is really going to tie into what happens
17:32 in Revelation chapter 10. James: It does.
17:33 Ivor: Because in Revelation chapter 10
17:36 it's like... they step back and go,
17:38 "Oh, we were wrong, we'll see that in a moment"
17:41 it's almost like... but they fall back
17:43 on what happens in 1840... in 1798... as a reassurance that
17:48 "No, no, no, no, you guys are on the right track
17:51 don't forget about what happened in 1840,
17:54 don't forget about what happened in 1798...
17:56 you're on the right track, you're just missing something"
17:58 and we're kind of jumping the gun here a little bit...
18:02 James: Yeah, that's right, good, we're connecting...
18:05 Ivor: Exactly... James: It's all connecting.
18:07 Ivor: So, when we talk about like, for example,
18:09 like, James just now went through this whole detail
18:12 of what happened in 1798 Napoleon... and kind of like...
18:16 the political history behind Napoleon
18:18 and how he went in and took the Pope captive
18:21 that history makes sense to us,
18:27 actually some of that history makes sense to us
18:29 in the context of,
18:31 "We understand that it was prophetic
18:33 and not just God saying, 'Hey, I know the future'"
18:36 but that there's a storyline, right,
18:39 the Papacy is wounded so that God's people can advance
18:42 well, the same thing with the history
18:44 we just learned about,
18:46 "Okay, what happened in 1840 August 11,
18:50 how did... what, okay, it's all right...
18:52 I get the details but what is it about?"
18:54 James: Well... Ivor: This is what's happening.
18:56 James: "What's the reason?" Yeah.
18:57 Ivor: "This is the reason... " we step back and we're like,
19:00 "Ah, I get it now... I get it... "
19:03 so, again, we're getting into the trees and looking at the...
19:06 but we step back as well and go,
19:09 "Ah... I get the forest, I see what's going on. "
19:12 James: Which is really interesting that you say this,
19:15 Ivor, because that's exactly why Revelation 10 comes next.
19:18 Ivor: Absolutely.
19:20 James: Revelation 10 is the point...
19:21 the point of the seven trumpets' succession
19:24 the seven trumpets are moving through
19:27 step by step to bring us to Revelation 10 because
19:29 there is the movement of God's people,
19:31 well, how come Revelation 10 wasn't in chapter 7 or 8 or...
19:38 well, the reason is is because God had to show
19:41 the development of history, the development of apostasy,
19:44 how He's judged at... how He gave...
19:46 it says in Revelation's Church of Thyatira,
19:49 how He gave Jezebel time to repent,
19:51 He put her into a bed of affliction
19:53 and gave her time to repent and she repented not,
19:56 now notice this,
19:57 because we're going to read some verses here,
19:58 Jason, read these verses for us right here
20:00 just read the rest of the verses and we'll highlight this point
20:05 as we get through them so read here
20:07 verses 16 through 21 of Revelation 9.
20:08 Jason: Okay, "And the number of the army
20:10 of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand:
20:13 and I heard the number of them.
20:15 And thus I saw the horses in the vision,
20:18 and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire,
20:21 and of jacinth, and brimstone:
20:25 and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions;
20:28 and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
20:31 By these three was the third part of men killed,
20:35 by the fire, and by the smoke,
20:36 and by the brimstone,
20:38 which issued out of their mouths.
20:40 For their power is in their mouth,
20:42 and in their tails:
20:44 for their tails were like unto serpents,
20:47 and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20:49 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues
20:53 yet repented not of the works of their hands,
20:56 that they should not worship devils,
20:58 and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone,
21:01 and of wood: which neither can see,
21:04 nor hear, nor walk:
21:05 Neither repented they of their murders,
21:10 nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication,
21:14 nor of their thefts. "
21:16 James: Okay, so, here's the big picture again,
21:18 God has sent a judgment,
21:20 it's Islam... it's the Ottoman Empire
21:23 and by the way, the fire and the brimstone...
21:27 this reminds us of gunpowder that proceed...
21:30 the gunpowder was used for the first time...
21:34 by the Muslims... in warfare...
21:35 Yvonne: They invented it?
21:37 James: Yes, and it was used at Constantinople...
21:39 the cannons that brought those walls down...
21:41 because the walls were almost impregnable
21:44 the cannon that brought those walls down
21:46 were these huge cannons
21:47 that had never appeared on the battlefield before.
21:49 These guys invented and used gunpowder for the first time
21:53 and that's what we see here with the fire and the smoke
21:55 and the brimstone which issued out of their mouths,
21:56 because as they would ride forth in these armored horses,
21:59 now, this is hundreds of years after their...
22:01 after their initial appearance on the scene of history
22:05 they're using guns and they're shooting those guns
22:09 in the front... as they're going so it looks like the... the...
22:12 the fire and the smoke and the brimstone
22:14 is coming out of the mouth of the horses
22:16 which look like lions
22:18 because they've got all this breastplate on
22:19 and they'd made to look ferocious... and I wish...
22:22 I mean, I've got some pictures of this
22:24 but we don't have them on the Set here
22:26 but... so... but notice... the point is...
22:29 is that, "I gave her space to repent and she didn't repent"
22:32 and what did God want her to repent of?
22:34 Worshipping idols... worshipping idols of gold and silver
22:38 and wood... idol worship was the very reason
22:41 why the Muslims were raised up in the first place,
22:42 they're raised up to... in their minds...
22:46 to cleanse the apostasy of idol worship
22:49 that had come in among the believers
22:52 and that's why they didn't touch people
22:53 who worshipped God, who had the seal of God
22:55 and worshipped God without worshipping idols,
22:57 there was a distinction made between those two groups
23:00 and that's what we see at the very beginning
23:02 and sure it comes out right here toward the very end
23:04 so, we see the same thing with
23:07 Nebuchadnezzar and this locust army,
23:08 what does he do when he goes into Jerusalem?
23:11 He takes Daniel and his friends who are faithful to God
23:14 and he brings them into Babylon
23:16 and then as Daniel and his friends remain faithful to God,
23:19 they're protected and they actually end up being
23:22 put in positions of trust and positions of authority
23:25 you see, so, so we see the same principles...
23:28 God is taking the same principles
23:29 from the Old Testament, from the Book of Daniel
23:32 which also includes the Book of Joel
23:33 and the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Ezekiel
23:35 and the Book of Isaiah because all those books
23:38 Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel... all prophesied
23:40 of this coming Locust Army,
23:43 Babylonians that were going to chastise and judge God's people
23:46 and then the details show us in Jeremiah
23:48 that they protected those who were faithful.
23:50 The same thing is happening here...
23:52 same exact repeat of history...
23:53 only, this is happening in the context of the Dark Ages,
23:56 in the context of modern history
23:59 as opposed to the Old Testament history.
24:00 So, we're just seeing the cycles repeat and enlarge,
24:03 is there anything new under the sun?
24:04 No, nothing new under the sun,
24:05 we're seeing the same cycles run through them all over again.
24:08 Ivor: I think it's important to point out also that
24:11 this is the same army from under the 5th trumpet
24:13 okay, so, you look at the descriptions there,
24:16 they're pretty much the same so, it's not like
24:19 this is... under the 6th trumpet this is a new army...
24:22 no, it's really... it's the same army of horses,
24:25 same power that we're dealing with
24:28 but the distinction is that under the fifth trumpet
24:31 they only hurt men, tormented men,
24:34 these... these...
24:36 they would raid and then go back raid and go back
24:39 under the 6th trumpet they actually take over
24:42 and they set up camp like, basically in the midst of the
24:48 Eastern Roman Empire and now, everyone's like,
24:51 "Oh, man, are they going to, like, invade all of Europe?
24:53 Is this what's going to happen?"
24:55 So, one of the things that we...
24:57 actually, I don't know remember if we pointed out or not...
25:00 but when Constantinople became Istanbul,
25:02 it became a bulwark of... a haven, if you will,
25:08 for Protestants and Jews
25:11 and anyone who was being persecuted by the Papacy.
25:14 Yvonne: Hmmm... James: It was a safe haven.
25:15 Ivor: It was a safe haven and so again it's interesting...
25:17 Yvonne: It was a refuge?
25:19 Ivor: It was a City of Refuge, if you will
25:21 and... and again we point to the fact that
25:23 what God is doing by using this Power,
25:27 is... He's actually turning the Papacy's own weapon upon itself
25:32 there's a very interesting...
25:35 in Revelation 13, I believe it is
25:37 and we will get there soon...
25:39 James: 8, 9 and 10, yeah. Ivor: but it talks about,
25:42 "he that kills with a sword, must be killed with a sword. "
25:45 "He that leads into captivity must go into captivity. "
25:47 What the... when we put this together,
25:50 the trumpets number 3 and 4... spiritual...
25:55 revealing the weakness of this spiritual aspect of the Papacy.
26:02 These doctrines are unbiblical, they're unsound
26:05 Trumpets number 5 and 6... military...
26:08 remember, what is the Papacy? It is a religio-political power
26:12 and trumpets number 3, 4, 5 and 6
26:15 weaken the Papacy both spiritually and militarily
26:20 in the eyes of Europe and as a result of this,
26:25 we have... what we'll see in Revelation 11
26:29 as the French Revolution which occurs just before 1798.
26:33 All these things worked together
26:35 to help bring about the wounding...
26:38 the deadly wound of the Papacy in 1798.
26:41 James: Really good Ivor
26:43 and I love the way you summarized all of this,
26:44 so, and just to, to add a little bit more to the Revelation 11
26:48 that you've kind of introduced us to,
26:49 so, Revelation 11... God actually tells us
26:52 why this is significant in Revelation 10,
26:55 "it has to do with my people... it has to do with my people"
26:57 then it's... as though He goes backwards,
27:00 the reason why in Revelation 11 we deal with...
27:02 we go back, in a sense, to the Dark Ages
27:04 and then... is to set the stage for the rise of Atheism,
27:07 how did... where did Atheism come?
27:09 Guess where Atheism came out of?
27:11 Jason and Yvonne: Where?
27:12 James: The same bottomless pit that Islam came out of
27:14 because it says,
27:16 "the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. "
27:17 it says, the same darkness... the same absence of God's Spirit
27:21 the same desolation and chaos that led to the rise of Islam,
27:25 also leads to the rise of Atheism...
27:28 mispresenting God... the absence of God...
27:31 the Dark Ages leads to these two Powers,
27:33 one comes up to chastise, to take out the idol worship,
27:37 the other comes up as a response
27:39 to this misrepresentation of God's character
27:42 it's really interesting.
27:43 Ivor: Its own... its own technique,
27:46 its own tactics... turn upon it.
27:47 James: Yes.
27:49 Ivor: That's what the trumpet is about.
27:50 James: That's basically what that is about.
27:52 Well, we've run out of time again... but it's all good
27:54 because I think we've done justice to this,
27:56 we've summarized it, we're good to go,
27:57 we're going to move into Revelation 10 next.
27:59 Yvonne: Yea...