Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000044A
00:30 All right, we are in Revelation chapter 11,
00:32 now we moved through Revelation 8 and 9
00:34 and it was challenging... it was...
00:37 it was probably the most challenging part of Revelation
00:39 that we've hit so far and I think it will be
00:41 it will stay there as the most challenging
00:43 and then we got a breather... whew...
00:45 Revelation chapter 10... kind of... yes...
00:47 you know the bitter disappointment...
00:49 the little book... Daniel... connection...
00:51 it was super fantastic, mystery of iniquity...
00:54 mystery of God... the two opposing elements
00:56 one... filling the world with selfless, other-centered love,
01:00 the other... all about self, exaltation and selfishness
01:04 and the two are contending
01:05 for the hearts and loyalty of human beings
01:08 and now we're moving into Revelation 11,
01:11 we kind of touched and connected Revelation 11:1 and 2,
01:14 which I kind of just... I just kind of cross out
01:17 the chapter division there
01:18 because I think Revelation 11:1 and 2
01:20 connect directly
01:21 with Revelation 10 and the Millerite Movement
01:23 you got to prophesy again, "What about?"
01:25 "Measure the temple, the altar and them that worship therein"
01:28 it's about judgment and God's involved in it,
01:30 God's in the center of it,
01:31 we need to see God... His character
01:33 and now we're moving into Revelation 11
01:36 the last part of verse 2 and then the rest of the chapter
01:39 and I think we're back into
01:40 Revelation 8 and 9 type of territory,
01:43 I think we're back into some of the more
01:46 difficult challenging verses,
01:48 so we're going to have to slow down just a little bit
01:50 and boom! hit some of these symbols,
01:52 identify them... Where are we in history?
01:55 What's taking place here?
01:56 Give a kind of an overview,
01:58 and then going to the details of these symbols
02:01 and see how they apply Biblically
02:03 and then confirm that by history,
02:04 that's where our basic strategy has been
02:07 in studying this book which I think has been really good,
02:10 it's been really good, we want a Biblical foundation
02:12 and a confirmation from history, not the other way around,
02:15 we don't want to use history to interpret the Bible,
02:17 we want Bible prophecy to be interpreted by itself,
02:19 and then history to confirm that.
02:20 Yvonne: Which is good.
02:22 James: Yvonne, take us through in prayer, can you?
02:24 Yvonne: Yes, sure, "Father God, thank you so much
02:26 for bringing us together once more to study your Word
02:30 and to glean its precious truths and so we thank you that...
02:33 that you are just revealed
02:36 and your character is revealed in your Word, Lord,
02:38 and we love you and we thank you
02:40 and we ask you that your Spirit be with us right now
02:42 we pray in Jesus' name, amen. " All: "Amen... "
02:45 James: Okay, so what do we have here,
02:47 so far, we've gone through the Millerite Movement
02:52 in Revelation chapter 10 and we've...
02:54 they've come out of that through that disappointment
02:58 with this... with this... this call to prophesy again
03:01 before many nations, peoples and tongues and kings,
03:04 so... so they have been commanded,
03:06 you've got to share what you've just learned
03:08 and what they've just learned is this incredible picture
03:10 of the heavenly sanctuary,
03:12 and when you go into the heavenly sanctuary,
03:14 you see a work that's being done there
03:16 in the Holy and the Most Holy Places
03:19 and what they've seen is that...
03:20 that Jesus Christ has transitioned from the Holy Place
03:23 into the Most Holy Place and so, then they're given this
03:25 read verse... chapter 11 verse 1,
03:29 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
03:30 and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple
03:34 and the altar, and them that worship therein. "
03:38 And so, we looked at that in our last program,
03:41 we identified the temple as the place where God dwells,
03:45 the place where God meets with His people,
03:48 the dwelling place of God so, so God Himself
03:51 is being placed in a position of being judged
03:54 because that's what the word
03:56 "measure" means in the Greek, it means, "to judge... "
03:57 and so, we know that this is true
04:00 because all of Society today and for hundreds of years
04:04 have been... been turned toward questioning God...
04:08 His existence... "Is there really a God?"
04:10 And the viability of His character,
04:12 "Is He really a God of love?"
04:14 And, if He is a God of love, how can it be that...
04:19 that He would be allowing so much evil and pain and suffering
04:22 to be taking place in the world today?"
04:24 Jason: And Satan has been trying to misrepresent God's character
04:28 since the beginning... like... forever...
04:30 since... in heaven when he deceived the one-third.
04:32 James: That's how he started the whole process
04:35 trying to deceive and misrepresent
04:37 the character of God. Yvonne: Hmmm...
04:39 James: So we have this picture needing clarification
04:43 right, we see Revelation chapter 11 then,
04:47 encouraging us... "go ahead and measure God"
04:50 is God afraid of being measured?
04:52 Is he afraid of being judged?
04:53 No, the thing that I think that is
04:56 what God is concerned with is not that we would question Him
04:59 but that we would question Him and then walk away
05:00 without measuring the altar,
05:03 see, the altar is also to be measured
05:06 and in Hebrews chapter 13... let's just read these verses
05:09 because I think they'll really help us clarify
05:11 the symbolism of the altar, Hebrews 13
05:14 and Jason would you read beginning with verse 10,
05:19 let's read 10 through 13, Hebrews 13:10 through 13
05:25 and there are some really good points here
05:29 outside of identifying the symbolism,
05:31 where are you at, Hebrews 13:10 through 13?
05:34 Jason: Do you have it Mom? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
05:37 Jason: You go ahead.
05:38 Yvonne: Okay, "We have an altar,
05:40 whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
05:44 For the bodies of those beasts,
05:46 whose blood is brought into the sanctuary
05:48 by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
05:51 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the
05:55 people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. "
05:58 James: All right, let's stop right there.
05:59 Paul, here, in verse 10 is saying,
06:01 "We have an altar... " well, what altar is that?
06:04 "Well, it's not the one that they're...
06:07 that they're serving in that literal sanctuary in the earth,
06:10 those who are serving that literal sanctuary... tabernacle
06:14 have no right to come to our altar. "
06:15 "Well, what's your altar?" "Well, that sanctuary...
06:18 they brought the bodies of the beasts
06:21 and their blood was spilled in that literal sanctuary service
06:24 and then their bodies were burned without the camp...
06:26 the beasts were burned without the camp
06:27 but our altar, verse 12, 'Wherefore Jesus also,
06:30 that he might sanctify the people with his own blood,
06:33 suffered without the gate' that's outside Jerusalem...
06:35 that's our altar... our altar is the cross...
06:38 our altar is where Jesus suffered... "
06:39 Yvonne: Hmmm...
06:41 James: Jesus was the lamb, He was the ultimate fulfillment
06:44 of the sacrifices of all those animals
06:45 that were brought into the Sanctuary,
06:48 so we have an altar... those people...
06:50 "If you keep serving that literal sanctuary,
06:52 you have no right to come to our altar
06:53 our altar is the fulfillment of all of that,
06:56 you've got... you've got to actually let that go...
06:58 in order to come to our altar... "
07:00 so the altar... according to Paul
07:02 in Hebrews 13 represents the cross,
07:04 it represents Christ, so when...
07:07 when Revelation 11 says, "Measure the altar... "
07:11 it's telling us... in connection with God's character,
07:14 measure the sacrifice that He's given for you
07:17 you've got a question about His character?
07:20 You're not understanding why there's sin and suffering?
07:22 God can't answer all those questions individually
07:26 because there are reasons
07:28 why sin and suffering has been allowed
07:30 that are beyond our pale of understanding,
07:32 we just can't grasp it all
07:33 but what God has done is
07:34 He's stepped into our suffering with us,
07:36 He, Himself, has stepped in in the person of Jesus Christ
07:39 and He has borne the weight and the guilt...
07:42 the measure of pain that every and all human beings have borne
07:46 and He's done that through the cross
07:48 so when it says there, "measure the temple"
07:50 God's character and the altar...
07:52 the revelation of that character through the Son, Jesus Christ
07:55 and then it says, "and them that worship therein"
07:58 So, the worshippers... in other words...
08:02 there is a stake in the character of God
08:06 and in the revelation of that character, that we play,
08:11 are we representing God?
08:13 Now, of course, there's a part of this
08:14 that's very clear that we're going to be measured,
08:16 that God's people are going to be measured,
08:17 that there's a judgment that takes place with us
08:19 but that judgment... many times...
08:21 is not so much God to us as it is... us to the world...
08:27 how many people have rejected God
08:30 because of the witness of those who worship Him.
08:33 How many people have turned away from God
08:35 because "the church" isn't reflecting what God is like.
08:38 Gandhi once said,
08:40 "A lot more of us Hindus would follow your Jesus,
08:43 if a lot more of your Christians were like Him. "
08:46 I'm just paraphrasing that, so, you have a church now,
08:50 this is the setting... this is the context,
08:52 you have a church now,
08:54 that's supposed to give a witness for the truth...
08:57 a witness of what God is like, it's not just His temple,
09:02 it's not just the sacrifice of Jesus
09:03 but now it's the church and it's in that setting
09:06 that we enter into the next verses
09:08 because what God is setting up here is
09:10 this time of darkness when there are only two witnesses,
09:13 when there's a lot of persecution against God's people
09:16 and when, in a sense, their witness shines brightly.
09:19 Yvonne: So, when it's saying, "to measure the temple...
09:22 measure the altar... and measure them that worship"
09:26 so, "them that worship" are the worshippers...
09:28 are we representing God properly?
09:29 James: Yes...
09:30 Yvonne: The altar is the cross? James: Yes.
09:32 Yvonne: And we're to evaluate the...
09:35 James: Look at God's love through the cross,
09:38 look at His love, Paul says it this way,
09:40 in fact, here's a really good verse,
09:42 I just thought of this, let's look at this one,
09:44 Jason go to... go to Ephesians
09:48 I think it's in Ephesians, Ephesians chapter 2,
09:51 I'm pretty sure that it's Ephesians chapter 2
09:54 Ephesians 2 and let's start... if I can find it here,
10:01 turning pages...
10:06 no, it's Ephesians 3...
10:08 Jason: And what verse?
10:10 James: Ephesians 3 and start reading here,
10:12 verses... in verse 14... and read all the way to 19...
10:17 Jason: Okay, "For this cause I bow my knees
10:20 unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
10:23 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
10:26 That he would grant you,
10:28 according to the riches of his glory,
10:29 to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
10:33 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;
10:36 that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
10:39 May be able to comprehend with all saints
10:42 what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
10:46 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge,
10:49 that you might be filled with all the fulness of God. "
10:52 James: Did you get that? Yvonne: Hmmm...
10:54 James: Are there measurements,
10:55 are there "measurement" words in there?
10:56 Yvonne: Yes...
10:58 James: And those measurement words are relating to who?
10:59 Yvonne: The love of Christ. James: Yeah, the love of Christ.
11:02 "Measure the altar" measure the love of Christ
11:05 because in the love of Christ, we have God,
11:08 so measure the length and the breadth
11:09 and the height and the depth,
11:11 when I think of the length of God's love,
11:12 I think of how longsuffering... God is long suffering towards us
11:16 not wanting that any should perish
11:17 but that all should come to repentance.
11:19 When I think of the breadth of God's love,
11:22 I think of how He loved the whole world
11:23 that He gave His only begotten Son... He takes everyone in.
11:25 When I think of the height of God's love, I think of...
11:28 "this is God... Jesus Christ is God...
11:30 God Himself has come down, He is the exalted creator,
11:32 He has come down... " and when I think of the depth,
11:34 how far down He came...
11:36 He came down... all the way down not just to be a man
11:39 but to be a servant and not only be a servant
11:42 but to die the death and not only death
11:44 but the death at the cross.
11:45 Yvonne: He's cast our sins into the depths...
11:47 James: depths of the sea
11:49 and He did that, not by just saying,
11:51 "Oh, I can do that because I'm God... " poof...
11:52 no, He had to do that...
11:54 in a way that allowed Him to maintain
11:57 His righteousness... standing for the entire universe
11:59 that He is just as well as merciful.
12:01 Jason: Which also speaks to why
12:03 there shouldn't be any compromise,
12:05 like, no compromise is acceptable
12:08 in the form of... let's say, religion or principles
12:12 because if... if you are able to compromise,
12:16 then Christ wouldn't have needed to come down
12:19 and die for our sins.
12:21 James: If God can't compromise, then, how can we?
12:24 And you're talking about God's law,
12:26 you're talking about the principles of His Government,
12:28 the principles of His Government stand fast,
12:30 they cannot be moved or changed,
12:32 but at the same time, His mercy... the Mercy Seat...
12:35 the Mercy Seat and that's what we're going back to,
12:38 is to measure the temple,
12:40 the Mercy Seat stands above the Law,
12:42 so you've got the Law and the Mercy Seat... they're together,
12:45 they're not in conflict with each other.
12:47 Yvonne: Hmmm... so the third one is the temple...
12:51 are we talking about the body as the temple of God or...?
12:54 James: No, we're talking about the dwelling place of God.
12:58 Yvonne: The dwelling place.
12:59 James: Yes... measure the temple of God...
13:02 so, that's the very place where God dwells...
13:04 it's... in the Old Testament...
13:06 I'll just read a couple of verses on this,
13:08 I have them here in my notes, in, of course, Revelation 11:19,
13:14 "The temple of God was opened in heaven,
13:15 and I saw in his temple the ark of his testament... "
13:18 so, it has to do with His ark... where the Law is but...
13:21 here's the verse that I want us to look at,
13:25 Exodus 25:21 and 22, Exodus 25:21 and 22...
13:29 Yvonne: "And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark;
13:38 and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony
13:40 that I shall give thee.
13:42 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee
13:45 from above the mercy seat, from between the two Cherubims
13:49 which are upon the ark of the testimony,
13:50 of all things which I will give thee in commandment
13:54 unto the children of Israel. "
13:55 James: So, this was the place where God met with His people,
14:00 where He communicated with His people,
14:01 where the Law of God was, everything that God has given us
14:04 His laws, His statutes, and the communication He gives to us
14:07 and the meeting with God, everything about God
14:10 relationship with God, communicating with God,
14:12 the things that He has communicated to us,
14:14 are measured... Yvonne: Hmmm...
14:16 James: So, what we see in the world is,
14:17 people are just walking away from God
14:19 they're... and God doesn't mind us measuring Him
14:22 or even judging... His Word, His Law,
14:25 the principles of His Government,
14:27 but He also wants us to measure His love... the altar,
14:31 and He also wants to be measured through His people,
14:34 His witness, if you will,
14:35 so there's a witness that's to be considered,
14:38 there's the cross that's to be considered,
14:41 in the light of that... we're to see and meet with God
14:43 and see Him as He really is,
14:45 He has been misrepresented, so the...
14:47 God is not concerned with being measured,
14:50 He's concerned with being measured correctly,
14:52 He's concerned that His words,
14:54 His testimony... that the place that He...
14:57 because see what happened was
14:58 in the Old Testament, in the context of this,
14:59 Moses met with God face to face, in a sense,
15:03 his face was glowing with the light of God's goodness,
15:07 and he saw God as no one else saw Him
15:10 and the people refused to do that.
15:12 God wanted to meet with them,
15:14 and they said, "No, no, no, Moses,
15:16 you meet with God and you let us know what He has to say. "
15:18 Yvonne: Right...
15:19 James; And a lot of people today that's what they do
15:21 so they say, "Oh, the Pastor will tell us,
15:23 the Pastor will tell us what to believe,
15:25 the Pastor will tell us what God said. "
15:27 No, the Pastor is not going to tell you what God says,
15:28 the Pastor is going to communicate
15:31 something new from God that is along the lines of,
15:33 "You need to come and meet with me,
15:35 you need to have this connection with me. "
15:37 It can't just be the people
15:39 getting this stuff from the Pastor,
15:41 it has to be the people being directed by the Pastor
15:44 to connect with God. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
15:46 James: And so, in the world today, we have this need
15:48 to measure God personally and individually
15:50 and to see what He's really like,
15:51 to experience Him for ourselves
15:53 and, of course, that need... that witness is going to come
15:56 in direct connection with Him,
15:57 it's going to come through a revelation of the cross,
15:59 it's going to come through His people
16:01 and as that picture is given to us,
16:02 then we move into these verses that describe a time
16:07 when God was misrepresented
16:09 and the only way that you could really understand Him
16:11 or get to know Him was through these two witnesses.
16:13 These two witnesses were the only ones
16:15 that had been faithful to the truth about who God really was
16:19 and that's what we want to identify,
16:20 who are these two witnesses?
16:22 What's going on in this dark time?
16:23 And how is it that God's character
16:25 is going to be revealed as it really is
16:27 yeah... through these next verses.
16:29 Ivor, what have you got over there?
16:31 You've been awfully quiet for us.
16:32 Ivor: I've been listening,
16:34 James: I know, I know, I can see that you've been listening.
16:38 Ivor: I think we should go into verse... verse 2 and...
16:42 James: Okay, let's do that then,
16:44 you want to lead us into verse 2 of Revelation 11?
16:46 Ivor: Yeah, so, "But the court which is without
16:47 the temple leave out, and measure it not;
16:51 for it is given unto the Gentiles:
16:53 and the holy city shall they tread under foot
16:55 forty and two months. "
16:57 So, do you see the time period here of 42 months
17:03 again bringing us back to the Dark Ages,
17:06 and this is going to be important to understand
17:08 as we actually get into the two witnesses
17:10 because timing is everything in the book of Revelation.
17:14 Yvonne: Hmmm...
17:15 Ivor: Right, knowing where you are
17:17 in what time period... is going to help you to understand
17:19 what's being spoken about... and actually,
17:21 when we get to the two witnesses,
17:24 you're going to see that many people misinterpret
17:27 who these two witnesses are, because their timing is off
17:29 and when your timing is off,
17:31 you're not going to see things in the book of Revelation
17:36 as this should be seen so this verse points us out...
17:40 points us out to the... to the Dark Ages,
17:42 the Gentiles here are doing something...
17:45 they are treading down the Holy City,
17:47 so, we can go back to the book of Daniel chapter 7
17:53 and Daniel chapter 8 and just what we've seen
17:58 in the 7 churches... the 7 seals...
18:01 particularly numbers three... four...
18:04 three and four... four... very specifically,
18:06 that this treading down is happening by the Papal System
18:10 against the people of God during the Dark Ages,
18:14 right, they're being persecuted
18:15 remember we talked about the mystery of iniquity,
18:19 how the mystery of iniquity basically was changing
18:22 the character of God in the eyes of the people
18:25 so as you combine what's happening here
18:28 with the verse that we just read before it,
18:31 we're looking at a reversal,
18:33 kind of like... what we talked about in our last program,
18:35 this is a reversal of the character of God
18:38 that has been... that was being presented
18:41 right, so, measure the temple but leave...
18:45 don't measure the... the... the court...
18:49 that's given to the Gentiles,
18:50 they're going to do this thing for... this long
18:53 but after they complete it, there's going to be a judgment
18:57 and my character is going to be revealed,
19:01 so now, as we get into verse 3,
19:05 I don't know, James, if there's anything you want
19:07 to add to verse 2... but as we get into verse 3,
19:08 it's going to tell us how the church... despite the darkness
19:15 was able to survive during the Dark Ages.
19:19 James: Well, there's one other thought in verse 2 and that is
19:22 the controversy over the Holy City
19:23 and it is difficult... so I want to give us a Bible verse on this
19:27 because I think it's important, it's in Hebrews chapter 12
19:30 and this Bible verse is basically defining for us
19:34 what the Holy City is,
19:35 Hebrews chapter 12 and verses 22 and 23,
19:41 let's just read those verses,
19:43 Yvonne, if you can get those for us
19:46 and then we'll apply that to the symbolism here
19:50 because I believe this is symbolic in its mentioning
19:53 of the Holy City, this... this Holy City
19:55 is either the literal Holy City of Jerusalem
19:58 which actually did not survive the 70 A.D. destruction
20:04 and therefore wasn't in existence
20:07 during this 42-month period,
20:09 now we've looked at the 42-month period as a prophetic period
20:12 so the 42 months... prophetically speaking
20:15 would be this same as the 1,260 days in the next verse
20:18 or 1,260 years because you got a day-for-a-year principle there
20:22 so we're looking at this period
20:23 as representing the Dark Ages
20:26 and we're going to get into that in more detail
20:29 we're going to affirm that in more detail when we get into
20:31 Revelation chapter 12 and Revelation 13,
20:33 we're going to put all these time periods into one
20:36 because they are one, there is no Holy City to destroy
20:40 at least not in relation to the temple
20:42 during most of these Dark Ages in fact it was during this time
20:46 that the Muslims actually built a mosque on the temple site
20:50 and so, what we have here is... you got to have a...
20:52 if it's not literal, it's got to be symbolic
20:54 so if it's symbolic...
20:56 then there's got to be a Bible verse that indicates
20:58 that the Holy City represents something else.
21:00 Yvonne: When John wrote Revelation,
21:02 was the Holy City intact then?
21:04 James: No, it was gone... it was gone...
21:07 so, he wrote Revelation at about A.D. 90
21:10 and Jerusalem had been taken out in 70 A.D.
21:13 And Jesus said, "not one stone will be left upon another"
21:16 in Matthew 24... Mark 13... Luke 21
21:19 but in the prophecy of Daniel,
21:21 it says there in Daniel chapter 9, verses 25, 26, 27...
21:26 verse 27 says that the Holy City would lay desolate
21:30 till the very consummation...
21:32 till the end of time... it would lay desolate...
21:33 and so, not talking about Jerusalem itself
21:36 but that temple site... desolate until the end of time
21:39 and that's why we have, I think, a mosque on it right now
21:42 because that prophecy is going to stand sure
21:44 and we're going to get into more detail on that
21:46 when we study the book of Daniel.
21:47 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah.
21:48 James: But let's just read our Bible verses and see
21:50 if there is a spiritual understanding of this Holy City.
21:54 Yvonne: Okay, Hebrews 12... and which verse?
21:56 James: 22 and 23...
21:57 Yvonne: "But ye are come unto mount Sion,
21:59 and unto the city of the living God,
22:01 the heavenly Jerusalem,
22:03 and to an innumerable company of angels,
22:05 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
22:08 which are written in heaven,
22:10 and to God the Judge of all,
22:12 and to the spirits of just men made perfect. "
22:14 James: All right, so, in the context of Hebrews 12,
22:18 22 and 23... which... by the way the book of Hebrews,
22:22 is one of the keys that unlocks Revelation
22:24 because it's filled with Sanctuary language,
22:27 that identifies the symbolism of the Sanctuary
22:29 throughout the book of Revelation
22:31 like we just did with the altar and so, here he says,
22:34 "Mount Sion... " which is another symbol
22:36 that's used in Revelation 14,
22:38 Mount Sion with a 144,000 stand...
22:40 Mount Sion is the city of the living God...
22:43 it's the heavenly Jerusalem so, this heavenly Jerusalem,
22:46 is what we find in the innumerable company of angels
22:50 and we find the general assembly and church of the firstborn
22:53 who are registered in heaven, now it says, "registered"
22:55 because you're not actually there yet
22:57 see... when you die... you rest in the grave...
23:00 until the resurrection... they're registered in heaven
23:04 okay, and so, this symbolism in Revelation chapter 11
23:08 where it says, "the Holy City shall they tread under foot"
23:11 it's talking about God's people who are registered in heaven,
23:14 it's talking about the persecution
23:16 that's going to take place against God's people
23:18 during the Dark Ages,
23:19 God's people who are registered in heaven,
23:21 Paul says it this way in Ephesians 2, he says,
23:23 "as we are sitting in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. "
23:27 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
23:28 James: So, what we see here developing is
23:30 there's a persecution that's going to be taking place
23:34 during that 42 months... against the Holy City...
23:37 the new Jerusalem... God's people are registered in heaven,
23:40 and that's exactly what we see taking place
23:42 during the Dark Ages but what's interesting is
23:44 that it's during this time
23:47 when God's people are heavily persecuted
23:49 that there is an opportunity for people to measure God,
23:55 they're measuring the altar,
23:57 in a sense, the sacrifice of Jesus... which is repeated
23:59 in the hearts and the experiences of God's people
24:01 then measuring those who worship God,
24:03 the stake... the pile of burning wood was
24:08 a most powerful testimonial witness
24:10 for the gospel during the Dark Ages,
24:12 people would go there in their best clothes
24:15 with their faces shining and they would sing hymns
24:18 as they were being burned to death
24:20 as martyrs for Christ.
24:21 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
24:23 James: They would lay in their tomb...
24:27 some of them were buried alive,
24:29 some of them were put into the waters and drowned
24:32 and they would do it with peace on their faces and joy...
24:38 Perkin... Perkin and others... Huss, Jerome, those who...
24:43 who gave their lives for the gospel,
24:46 didn't waver when it came to the very end
24:49 in the account of Huss, I believe it is,
24:51 the guy... the Executioner came behind him to burn the pile,
24:56 he said, "Come to my face... I don't fear to die...
24:59 I wouldn't be here if I feared to die"
25:00 so you have these powerful witnesses
25:03 being given during the Dark Ages
25:05 and that's the Jerusalem City
25:07 that's actually registered in heaven
25:09 that's been a witness of Christ
25:10 and now we're going to find out how that witness was given,
25:12 what was the source,
25:14 what was it that gave the strength
25:16 to that witness,
25:17 where do they get their strength from?
25:18 Where are we going to get our strength from?
25:20 And that's what we just see in the next verse,
25:22 verse 3... Jason, can you read verse 3 for us?
25:24 Jason: Sure, "And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
25:28 and they shall prophesy
25:30 a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
25:32 clothed in sackcloth. "
25:34 James: Keep going, 4 and 5.
25:35 Jason: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks
25:37 standing before the God of the earth
25:39 And if any man will hurt them,
25:41 fire proceedeth out of their mouth,
25:43 and devoureth their enemies:
25:44 and if any man will hurt them,
25:46 he must in this manner be killed. "
25:47 James: Six...
25:49 Jason: "These have power to shut heaven,
25:51 that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
25:54 and have power over waters to turn them to blood,
25:58 and to smite the earth with all plagues,
26:00 as often as they will. "
26:01 James: All right... Yvonne: Hmmm...
26:03 James: These are the key verses,
26:04 now, we're running out of time, we only have a couple of minutes
26:06 left so we're going to do a cliffhanger...
26:07 Yvonne: Oh... James: And the cliffhanger is...
26:09 you come right to the end and you go,
26:10 "Now, this is the... the... the the... the... boom! stop!"
26:12 Yvonne: Yeah, because I have...
26:15 I have some questions about that.
26:17 James: This is the source, right?
26:19 This is the source... what we have right here...
26:22 is we have the source and the power
26:25 of the witnesses for Christ. Yvonne: Hmmm...
26:28 James: How could they stand so strongly during the Dark Ages?
26:31 How could they resist the stake and the fire and the flame
26:34 and the torment and the torture?
26:36 How could they be shining
26:37 bright lights for God during this time,
26:40 well, it's because of this...
26:41 because of what we just read here,
26:42 well, what is this? This sounds very wooooh...
26:46 like, "What... what is... "
26:48 what are we talking about here?
26:50 What is the source of the strength for every Christian?
26:53 Well, verse 4 is where we're going to start,
26:55 and I hate to get into this without a lot of time left,
27:00 so, we've only got 59 seconds so, we'd better...
27:02 we'd better back up... we'll start...
27:04 we'll pick up with verse 4, and do it there,
27:06 all right, Jason,
27:08 what do we have for our Viewers?
27:09 Jason: We'd love if our Viewers would send in
27:13 either questions on video to sss@3abn. org
27:17 or just e-mail us their questions
27:19 that you guys can answer.
27:21 Yvonne: Laughter...
27:22 James: I don't know... I think we can get to the place
27:24 where we get to kind of like,
27:26 transition a few of those questions
27:27 to thee... to thou...
27:30 Yvonne: Oh yes, that's why... that's why the
27:32 network is called: Dare to Dream.
27:34 James: Right, right, you got it, Dare to Dream.
27:37 Yvonne: We're daring to do it in Jesus' name.
27:40 James: So we're going to leave off in verse 4
27:42 when we come to our next Program we'll pick up right there,
27:44 we'll try to identify these two olive trees
27:46 and the rest of these verses here,
27:48 what do they mean, what is the significance
27:50 of these verses and how does that relate
27:52 to God's faithful people during the Dark Ages.
27:54 That's what we want to uncover, that's what we want to know.
27:56 Yvonne: Great. James: All right.
27:58 Yvonne: Thank you, yeah...