Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000055A
00:30 We are moving right along,
00:31 Revelation chapter 13 is coming alive,
00:34 we've connected it with Matthew chapter 24,
00:36 we talked about all of the counterfeits
00:39 and how these counterfeits of Satan
00:41 and the human instrumentalities that he works through
00:44 are the "abomination of desolation"
00:46 putting man...
00:47 putting his counterfeits in the place of God
00:50 is an abomination that makes us desolate.
00:52 It takes away our salvation
00:53 and Jesus wanted us to watch out for this
00:56 and the final one of course,
00:57 putting Satan in the place of Christ
01:00 that counterfeit... coming... impersonating Christ
01:03 performing miracles...
01:05 deceiving, if possible, the elect...
01:06 the whole world "wondering after the beast"
01:09 pointing to that image... pointing to that false worship
01:12 and saying, "This is the genuine... "
01:14 that's the final abomination.
01:16 And it's going to be important for us to understand
01:18 the point you just mentioned James,
01:20 because... as we get into the Mark of the Beast,
01:23 that's going to lay for us a very good foundation
01:26 to understand, "Ah, that's what the 'Mark' is... "
01:29 James: So close to the truth.
01:30 Ivor: Absolutely.
01:32 James: The counterfeit is so close to the truth.
01:33 Ivor: Absolutely.
01:34 Yvonne: A question just dawned on me,
01:36 I'll ask it after the prayer.
01:37 I'll ask it after...
01:38 James: Good, good, so we're going to have prayer,
01:41 we're not going to do a question this time
01:42 just because we've got some material we want to cover
01:44 in this Section,
01:45 so, we'll have prayer and then we'll jump right in.
01:47 Jason, pray for us.
01:48 Jason: Sure, "Dear Heavenly Father,
01:50 we thank you for another chance,
01:52 another opportunity that we have to study your Word
01:55 we ask that as we cover these deep subjects...
01:58 this deep topic that you would please be with us
02:01 and that you would please help us to fully comprehend
02:04 and retain this information
02:06 and send your Holy Spirit
02:07 to lead and guide us into all truth,
02:09 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. " All: "Amen. "
02:11 James: All right, Yvonne.
02:13 Yvonne: So, Satan is going to impersonate the return of Jesus,
02:19 and the dead... and he will... one of the miracles...
02:26 James: Deception...
02:28 Yvonne: is the dead... resurrecting...
02:30 except, I think we should clarify
02:32 that it's really not the dead.
02:34 James: Yes, good point... it's really not the dead,
02:36 he cannot raise the dead, he can't bring to life,
02:39 he doesn't have the power.
02:40 Yvonne: So it's going to...
02:42 that would be another impersonation
02:44 so your dear Aunt Sally or your mother or your father
02:50 or whoever... you might think that you're talking to them
02:55 but you're actually talking to a demon.
02:57 James: Let's give a Bible verse on this,
02:59 Jason, can you find us 2nd Corinthians chapter 11
03:02 verses 13, 14 and 15.
03:05 I think... I think it's really important
03:07 for us to look at the Bible verses
03:09 when we talk about these kinds of things
03:11 so that people have references that they can go to
03:15 and we're talking right now about Satan personating
03:19 human beings coming as Christ, personating Christ,
03:23 personating human beings so 2nd Corinthians chapter 11
03:26 Ivor: It would be an evil angel that would be Counterfeiting,
03:28 basically real people.
03:31 James: Yes, can he do this?
03:32 Begin at verse 13 and read all the way to 15.
03:36 Okay, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
03:39 transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
03:42 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
03:46 into an angel of light. "
03:47 James: Okay, that's 13, 14, 15?
03:50 Jason: All right, 15... "Therefore it is no great thing
03:52 if his ministers also be transformed
03:54 as the ministers of righteousness;
03:56 whose end shall be according to their works. "
03:58 James: All right, so these verses are telling us...
04:01 and in the context, it's talking about
04:03 Satan actually preaching another gospel... verse 2...
04:06 another "Jesus... " another spirit...
04:09 coming in another spirit
04:10 so you've got the gospel of Jesus and the Holy Spirit
04:13 being counterfeited by Satan
04:14 in verse 2 of 2nd Corinthians 11
04:16 and then his ministers... who are his ministers?
04:19 The demons... they're coming as ministers of righteousness?
04:22 Whoa... and Satan is coming as an angel of light.
04:25 So these verses tell us exactly what's taking place here.
04:29 Jason: You know, I heard something interesting,
04:31 and I don't remember who said it or where I heard it,
04:34 I don't know if it was a preacher or whoever... but...
04:37 they was talking about how these bank tellers...
04:40 when they're being trained...
04:41 they don't take a look at every counterfeit that's out there,
04:45 they get to know the true... the real...
04:49 the real deal... the genuine... through and through
04:54 so anything else that they see that is not the real deal,
04:58 they recognize as counterfeit.
05:01 James: Because there are so many variations of the counterfeit,
05:03 people are out there counterfeiting,
05:05 they can come up with these different variations
05:06 and if you're studying the counterfeit...
05:08 well, maybe a counterfeit comes along
05:09 you haven't heard of before... it's a brand-new one,
05:11 if you're studying the genuine, I like that,
05:13 if you're studying the genuine...
05:15 then, you could tell the counterfeit right away
05:16 because it doesn't match up with the real thing
05:18 and that's why we need to be in the Bible.
05:21 Ivor: Yeah, yeah, I want to just add something here
05:23 that is... because with that question...
05:25 the question you asked was from...
05:28 the verse we use is Revelation 16
05:31 with these three unclean spirits
05:33 that go out like frogs but it's interesting because
05:37 if you look at the verse
05:39 that is right before Revelation 16 verse 13...
05:42 it says in verse 12
05:46 "And the sixth angel poured out his vial
05:48 upon the great river Euphrates;
05:49 that the water thereof was dried up,
05:51 that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. "
05:54 River Euphrates was the river that supported Babylon.
05:57 When the river was dried up in the Old Testament,
06:00 it was because a guy by the name of Cyrus
06:03 was coming to deliver God's people who were...
06:07 he was known as God's anointed
06:09 which is a type of the Messiah,
06:12 he dried up the deep in order to
06:15 set the captives free from Babylon,
06:19 okay, when Jesus comes again, is He going to dry up the deep?
06:24 In a sense, "Yes. "
06:25 Where are the captives?
06:27 Yeah, they are going to be those who captives...
06:29 captive... alive when He comes
06:31 but there are also those that are captive to the grave.
06:33 So when He comes again, He's drying up the deep
06:36 and all His people who are captive to death,
06:39 or in persecution are going to be free
06:42 so, it's not by coincidence
06:44 that right after this mention of...
06:47 "Hey, this is what Jesus is going to do when He comes"
06:49 you have these three unclean spirits
06:51 going out to counterfeit that very miracle...
06:56 and then the very next verse after that, Jesus says,
06:59 "Hey, I just want you to remember
07:01 I come as a thief in the night,
07:03 remember how I come,
07:05 I'm not coming like how I told you... I've warned you
07:08 so watch lest your shame be... your nakedness be revealed... "
07:13 He's telling you, "Hold on to those garments... "
07:15 He's saying,
07:17 "Listen, this is what's going to happen when I come
07:19 but Satan's going to try to do it before me...
07:20 he's going to try to counterfeit... "
07:22 so it's a counterfeit...
07:23 it's not the dead really being raised...
07:25 it is a counterfeit, it's spiritualism, right,
07:29 and so, when you have apostles now appearing
07:32 and saying, "Yeah, this is really the messiah
07:35 and he is... listen to what he's saying. "
07:38 These things again,
07:39 this understanding is going to help us
07:41 when we get back to Revelation 13
07:42 to look at what the Mark of the Beast actually is.
07:44 James: Hmmm... let's get back to Revelation 13,
07:46 we've got a few characteristics here,
07:48 we've kind of thrown out some names here...
07:50 identifications in relation to these powers,
07:53 we've talked about the Papacy,
07:54 we've talked about the United States
07:56 but I think we should get into the meat of these verses
07:58 and make the connections historically
08:01 so that people can really understand
08:03 how it is that we come to these conclusions.
08:05 The first verse we want to look at again
08:07 is Revelation 13 verse 2, actually verse 1...
08:10 John is standing on the sand of the sea,
08:13 Revelation 17:15 tells us that seas and waters represent
08:17 peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues...
08:19 now what we're looking at here is a connection
08:23 this sea beast... the leopard-like sea beast
08:26 has connected us not just to the dragon
08:30 but all the way back to the book of Daniel...
08:32 how do we know that?
08:34 Why do we make that connection?
08:35 Because, first of all,
08:36 the seas represent peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues,
08:39 so we're not talking about
08:40 a desolate place of the earth here... or a wilderness,
08:42 we're talking about populated place of the earth
08:44 and that's what Daniel leaves us,
08:46 in Daniel's prophetic book, you have these four nations
08:49 Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome,
08:52 and these four nations populate the European and the Middle East
08:57 all of the populated areas of the world
08:59 are populated by these powers... these kingdoms...
09:02 okay, so when Revelation opens up the sea
09:05 and out of the sea came a beast
09:08 having seven heads and ten horns,
09:10 those ten horns represent those ten nations of Europe.
09:13 The seven heads, of course,
09:15 the different heads that were on the nations of
09:17 Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
09:18 Ivor: Let's just amplify that a little bit,
09:22 so, in Daniel chapter 7,
09:23 and by God's grace,
09:26 we'll be going through that book as well,
09:28 but in Daniel chapter 7,
09:29 right now, just a short picture of that is
09:32 four beasts rise up, the first is a lion,
09:35 the second is a bear,
09:37 the third is a four-headed leopard
09:39 and the fourth is a dragon,
09:43 so you count all those heads together,
09:46 you have seven heads... Babylon... one...
09:49 Medo-Persia... two... Greece... four...
09:52 okay, and then Rome... the seventh head...
09:56 so you've got these seven heads
09:58 and then on Rome... the seventh head...
10:00 you have these ten horns which represent the nations
10:03 or the countries out of... well, the European nations,
10:09 so these are the seven... ten...
10:10 when you look at Revelation 13 verse 1,
10:13 it's basically a composite... one beast...
10:15 having all these characteristics,
10:18 John sees them as one...
10:19 Daniel sees them as four different beasts.
10:22 Yvonne: Hmmm... All: Hmmm.
10:23 James: And they're one in Revelation... because
10:25 it's a composite or a consummation of
10:30 all those kingdoms coming together into this next kingdom
10:32 which rises up out of the sea...
10:33 and this next kingdom that followed the succession,
10:36 historically would be Papal Rome,
10:39 so when Babylon fell, it fell to Medo-Persia...
10:41 when Medo-Persia fell, it fell to Greece...
10:43 when Greece fell, it fell to Pagan Rome...
10:45 and Pagan Rome went down into the sea...
10:47 we studied this in the trumpets,
10:48 he went down into the waters of Europe,
10:51 the ten nations came up...
10:52 and then another little power came up...
10:54 and plucked up three of those nations
10:56 and that Little Power became the Papacy...
10:59 Papal Rome... it stood up in Rome's place
11:02 and that's where you get the connection... historically.
11:05 Revelation is showing us that connection
11:07 in this composite beast...
11:09 this composite beast is now Papal Rome,
11:11 it comes up in the place of these other nations
11:13 that's why it has all the characteristics...
11:15 feet as a bear... body as a leopard...
11:18 mouth as a lion...
11:19 dragon gives him his power, seat and great authority
11:21 he's got the same configurations of the dragon over here
11:24 and then it goes on to tell us
11:26 that this power... it says...
11:28 was going to have a deadly wound inflicted
11:31 and we looked at that... we looked at the history of that
11:34 and then we saw the wound being healed
11:35 but the thing that we want to make sure that we do now
11:38 is we want to connect all these characteristics
11:41 in Revelation chapter 13 with the book of Daniel.
11:43 So we're going to go back to the book of Daniel,
11:46 chapter 7, we're just going to look at
11:47 some of the characteristics
11:49 and make that connection to Revelation chapter 13.
11:51 So Daniel chapter 7 and let's just start here
11:56 if we will... in verse 8...
11:59 Daniel chapter 7 and verse 8
12:03 Jason, can you read for us verse 8... just verse 8?
12:07 Sure, "I considered the horns, and, behold,
12:10 there came up among them another little horn,
12:13 before whom there were three of the first horns
12:16 plucked up by the roots
12:17 and behold, in this horn were eyes
12:20 like the eyes of man,
12:21 and a mouth speaking great things. "
12:23 Okay, so you notice, the Little Horn comes up among them...
12:26 that's the first characteristic,
12:27 the Little Horn Power would rise up in Europe
12:30 among the European Nations.
12:31 The next characteristic that we see here in this verse is...
12:35 it says that the Little Horn plucked up three by the roots,
12:39 three of the other horns were plucked up...
12:40 when the Papacy came into power,
12:42 it eradicated... or plucked up three of those ten horns...
12:46 or those ten nations in its rise to power,
12:48 the Heruli... the Ostrogoth's and the Visigoths
12:51 and then it says... it had eyes as the eyes of a man
12:54 and so you have a man at the head of this power,
12:57 and then it goes on to say,
12:59 "it has a mouth speaking great things. "
13:00 Ivor: Blasphemous things.
13:02 James: Yes, and what we're going to see here
13:03 is the very same characteristics that are revealed in Daniel 7
13:08 are also paralleled in Revelation.
13:10 For example, in Revelation chapter 13
13:13 it says here in verse 2,
13:15 "and the beast which I saw was like a leopard... "
13:17 and he says, "his feet as the feet of a bear,
13:20 and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
13:22 and the dragon gave him his seat,
13:24 and his power, and great authority.
13:25 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death:
13:28 and his deadly wound was healed:
13:29 and all the world wondered after the beast.
13:31 They worshipped the beast...
13:32 and the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
13:34 and they worshipped the beast, saying,
13:36 Who is like unto the beast?
13:37 who is able to make war with him?
13:38 And there was given unto him
13:40 a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies... "
13:42 so you have that same characteristic in verse 5
13:44 that we read about here in Daniel chapter 7 and verse 8
13:48 and then you go on... now...
13:50 what's really interesting is...
13:51 and we don't want to go into all the details of Daniel 7...
13:53 we're just going to hit the highlights...
13:55 Daniel wants to know more...
13:57 "I want to know more about this Little Horn Power...
13:59 tell me more about this guy"
14:00 okay, so the angel comes back and says,
14:02 "Okay, I'm going to tell you a couple of things,
14:03 first I'm going to tell you" verse 17...
14:05 that these beasts that you're looking at
14:07 are actually four kings that will arise out of the earth.
14:11 So sometimes when we talk about a beast,
14:14 "What's the beast? What's the Mark of the Beast?"
14:16 We're just... "oooh! look at this... "
14:19 this is an earthly kingdom, this is an earthly kingdom
14:22 so we can drop the symbolism, we can get real now,
14:25 we're talking about an earthly power,
14:27 okay, what earthly power followed
14:28 Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome?
14:30 What earthly power came up among them?
14:32 What earthly power plucked down three horns
14:34 as it rose to power?
14:35 What earthly powers speaks great things
14:38 claiming for example to be God on earth...
14:40 claiming, for example, the power to forgive sins...
14:42 these are the characteristics that are identified
14:45 in Daniel 7 and in Revelation chapter 13,
14:48 what great power has the whole world wondering after it
14:51 and saying, "Who's like him?
14:52 Who can make war with him?" All: Hmmm... Hmmm.
14:54 It's got to be a religions power,
14:56 see, it's got to be a... yeah... because...
14:58 because people look at that power and they go,
15:00 "Oh! this is a good guy, this is a nice guy,
15:02 this is a peace-loving guy,
15:03 this is the kind of person... this is the kind of power...
15:06 this is the kind of System that would be good for us to have"
15:09 and that's where we're moving, now, during the Dark Ages,
15:12 and leading up through all of the atrocities
15:16 that were taking place in the church
15:17 they lost that because people knew what was going on there
15:21 and it was exposed for what it was...
15:23 and some of that exposure still come down to us in our time
15:26 but we're turning another leaf, we're forgiving the past...
15:29 we're forgetting the past
15:30 and we are now looking at this Papal Power
15:33 in a different light... a peace-loving power...
15:35 a man that can lead us into a new era of enlightenment
15:39 and peace and love and forgiveness,
15:41 however, the doctrines and the teachings
15:44 of this particular religious power have not changed
15:47 and that's where we need to be careful
15:49 because Revelation 13 is telling us
15:51 "this wound is going to be healed"
15:53 but nothing has changed
15:54 when it comes to what it actually teaches and believes.
15:56 Ivor: I was going to say this
15:59 but I can't because of what you just said,
16:02 so, you know... you look at this beast
16:04 it's coming up out of the water,
16:07 and... when you think of... as a Christian
16:11 when you think of... some living thing
16:13 or something coming up out of the water,
16:15 like, what comes to your mind as a Christian?
16:17 You think... baptism... yeah...
16:20 and what is baptism... baptism is
16:23 "the old man has changed and I'm a new creature now,
16:27 hey... that 'me... ' that was the old me...
16:29 I used to be a beast, Man! you know... "
16:35 "I used to be a beast but now...
16:38 I've been baptized... I've been changed. "
16:40 Right, and the reason... one of the reasons why
16:43 the world grows in "wondering after the beast"
16:47 and all, it is because we look at
16:49 what the Papacy was in the Dark Ages,
16:51 and what it is now, we're like, "Oh, they've changed...
16:54 it's new... " the problem is
16:59 that the beast in... this beast did not die
17:03 it was only wounded... James: Hmmm...
17:05 Ivor: See... baptism... you die...
17:07 you go down in the water and you're not really dead,
17:11 you come up... you might look different,
17:13 you might be able to fool people,
17:15 but if you never really died, there's no real change
17:19 and so, this is what's going on here,
17:21 this beast ends up deceiving many because
17:24 "Yeah, ah Man! you've changed... "
17:26 "Yeah that was old... the old man...
17:29 this is... this is new"
17:32 and that's what we're seeing.
17:33 Jason: What was that sermon you preached
17:34 on Death, Burial, Resurrection?"
17:36 Ivor: Yes, hmmm... hmmm... I don't remember but yes...
17:38 yes... the battle is... you've got to learn how to die daily,
17:44 every day you die, you're buried...
17:46 you're resurrected, you come up...
17:48 you overcome sin in that process... you die...
17:50 temptation comes to you... "What am I going to do?
17:52 Am I going to live or am I going to die?"
17:53 You die to self...
17:55 God says, "Okay, when you die, I'll raise you back up. "
17:57 Right, and that's the process, so... but...
18:00 if you haven't really died, then, you're only fooling people
18:03 you know that you've changed
18:05 and that's what's happening with this beast.
18:07 James: Hmmm... hmmm... all right, I'm just going to...
18:10 we're just going to look at two more verses in Daniel 7...
18:12 just to make the connection,
18:13 the two verses are: verses 24 and 25...
18:17 Yvonne, if you could read those for us, 24 and 25.
18:20 Yvonne: Sure, "The ten horns are ten kings
18:22 who shall arise from this kingdom,
18:25 and another shall arise after them;
18:27 and he shall be different from the first ones,
18:29 and shall subdue three kings.
18:31 He shall speak pompous words against the most High,
18:34 shall persecute the saints of the most High,
18:37 and shall intend to change times and laws:
18:40 then the same shall be given into his hand
18:43 for a time and times and half a time. "
18:45 Ivor: Hmmm...
18:46 James: Okay now, there are a number of characteristics here
18:49 that parallel Revelation 13... time, times and half a time...
18:52 42 months...
18:54 "it was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
18:55 and blasphemies; and power was given unto him
18:58 to continue forty and two months. "
19:00 In verse 7,
19:01 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints... "
19:03 and you see that over here in Daniel chapter 7,
19:06 "he will wear out the saints of the most High"
19:09 and then the one that's really interesting
19:12 verse 8 of Revelation 13...
19:14 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
19:16 whose names are not written in the book of life... "
19:18 Daniel 7:25... "he shall change times and laws"
19:22 and there's only one place in the law of God
19:26 that deals with "time" and that is... the Sabbath.
19:30 Yvonne: Yes.
19:31 James: That "time" has been changed.
19:32 Worship in this world comes down to one of two days:
19:36 Saturday or Sunday...
19:39 and the Bible says, Saturday is the seventh day...
19:42 "the seventh is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God"
19:46 so this power is seeking to change the time of worship
19:49 so that everyone worships him instead of worshipping God.
19:51 Yvonne: Hmmm...
19:53 James: So, Daniel and Revelation are twin prophetic books
19:56 and they're connecting together right here
19:57 in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.
19:59 All these characteristics that we see in Revelation 13
20:01 are all coming from the book of Daniel,
20:03 we see them one after another where he raises up...
20:05 how he's different... he's a religious power...
20:08 and no one can make war against him...
20:09 how he reigns for 42 months... how he says blasphemous things
20:12 and says things against the most High,
20:13 how he changes the day of worship...
20:15 the times and laws and he persecutes God's people
20:17 how he continues for this designated amount of time...
20:21 all of that is being brought into Revelation chapter 13
20:24 so we can make the connection as Ivor said,
20:26 I just love that whole idea... that homiletic insight
20:30 as Ivor said,
20:32 "you have this power that rises up out of the water
20:36 acting like it's been changed, acting like it's...
20:39 the old man is dead...
20:41 but really it received a deadly wound
20:43 and it's going to return to what it once was...
20:47 once it gets in its place
20:48 and there's another power that's going to help it
20:51 to get to that place
20:53 of power and authority
20:55 that it once had in the Old Testament...
20:57 not in the Old Testament... in the Dark Ages.
21:00 So that's what we're going to see...
21:01 we're going to see the parallel between these two powers.
21:03 Revelation chapter 13... Revelation chapter...
21:07 and Daniel chapter 7 connecting together
21:09 and bringing us this insight...
21:12 this prophetic insight into the future
21:13 so, here's the key verse... and the transitions for us...
21:18 Revelation 13 verse 10...
21:19 "He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity:
21:23 he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.
21:26 Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
21:28 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;
21:31 he had two horns like a lamb and he spake as a dragon. "
21:33 What happened in 1798 was that the Papacy was taken captive
21:38 we read about it... we talked about that...
21:40 Berthier... Napoleon... he is going down in 1798
21:44 and at that same time, prophetically speaking,
21:47 another power is rising up out of the earth,
21:50 this power came out of the sea,
21:52 this... another power is coming up out of the earth,
21:53 it's an earthly kingdom... it's coming up out of the earth,
21:56 it's coming up in a less-populated place
21:59 of planet earth... okay...
22:01 a less populated place of... that the...
22:04 so, this power comes up out of the sea...
22:06 peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues... Europe...
22:08 this other power comes up in a less-populated area...
22:11 the earth... because the "earth" is opposite of the "sea"
22:14 earth... waters... desolate... not as many... population...
22:18 so, what you see here is sometime...
22:21 first characteristic when this beast is going down,
22:24 when this power is being inflicted,
22:26 sometime around the 1700s... the 18th century...
22:29 another power is going to rise on the scene of action
22:32 in a less-populated place in the earth.
22:35 What power arose in the 1700s
22:38 in an unpopulated place on Planet Earth?
22:40 Ivor: Not only that, before you answer the question
22:43 that has...
22:46 what does a "lamb" represent in the Bible?
22:48 The Lamb represents Jesus,
22:49 so we're looking for a nation, right,
22:52 that would be rising up around the late 1700s
22:54 that would be... at least professedly
22:57 what kind of a nation? A Christian nation
22:59 and there really only one nation that fits the bill
23:02 that's United States of America.
23:04 James: The other thing here that want to get into with this
23:07 is that it's another beast,
23:09 now we already talked about this as a composite beast
23:12 so it's connected to the dragon,
23:13 it's connected to the Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
23:15 It's the same thing... just being continued...
23:18 but this is another one, this is a new one...
23:20 It's got to be a new nation, it's not... in fact...
23:24 it may come out of Europe
23:25 but it severs its connection with Europe.
23:26 Okay, fourth characteristic, the two horns have no crowns
23:31 now notice how all these horns have crowns...
23:34 that designates monarchies... kings... queens...
23:37 this other beast... this new nation rising up in the 1700s
23:42 and having these lamb-like horns with no crowns
23:45 which means that it's going to be a Republic...
23:48 it's going to be a Democracy, it's not going to be a Monarchy
23:51 like we've seen in the past,
23:53 so we've got four characteristics now,
23:54 you got them so far... the time that it rises...
23:57 okay, 18th century... 1700s...
24:00 that place that it rises...
24:02 in the earth... in a more desolate place...
24:04 the type of nation it is, lamb-like... Christian...
24:08 and the fact that it has no crowns on its horns...
24:11 it's not a monarchy... it's a Republic...
24:13 so, all of these characteristics are pointing us to
24:18 the United States of America,
24:21 I mean... go head...
24:23 Ivor: I was going to look at something else here,
24:26 Revelation 13:11... right...
24:27 there's actually another characteristic is that...
24:29 while it had the horns of a lamb it says, "He spake as a dragon"
24:35 and this is very interesting because
24:38 you look at the founding of the nation of
24:42 the United States of America... founding of America
24:44 and you look at how these Christians were leaving Europe
24:50 because of Religious persecution and when they got here,
24:55 to set up here, guess what they did?
24:58 They persecuted... they set up their...
25:00 okay... "Massachusetts is going to be this only... "
25:04 whether you're Catholic or Protestant
25:06 and they did not allow religious freedom
25:08 for others who didn't believe as they believed
25:11 or if you were Catholic... "No, you can't come here... "
25:13 Some places were set up,
25:16 "if you were Protestant... you can't come here"
25:18 so the same persecution they were trying to escape from,
25:20 they put upon others...
25:23 and, of course, you look at what happened with the Indians,
25:25 what happened with slavery
25:27 and you just look at a nation that appears to...
25:29 has the attributes of Christianity,
25:32 but at the same time you see this
25:34 undertone of... "of, wait a minute... "
25:37 James: The dragon. Ivor: The dragon.
25:40 Is just... what is this?
25:41 I mean, horns of a lamb... it looks like a lamb...
25:43 but Man! when it open its mouth...
25:46 you know... so you have this parallel...
25:49 you look again... this is like a perfect description
25:52 of the founding of America
25:54 and again, there were people who came in
25:56 who were true, genuine Christians
25:57 but Revelation 13... while it's pointing out America
26:01 as a nation...
26:03 it's actually more specifically pointing out
26:06 what we would call, "Apostate Protestantism"
26:10 right, in other words, Protestantism that...
26:13 people that profess Christianity but have apostatized
26:20 are not following...
26:21 actually reflecting the characteristics of the Lamb
26:24 so, as you read further down, you see,
26:25 "Wait a minute... this nation... "
26:27 and that's why people can't...
26:28 when we read... go further... people are like,
26:30 "that's not going to happen here in America...
26:32 no, this is America... land of... "
26:34 they can't even fathom
26:36 some of the things that we're about to say
26:37 because they're like, "Naw ah... this is America... "
26:40 Yvonne: Yeah... yeah...
26:41 James: But as you brought out these principles have
26:43 have actually been underlined...
26:45 a lot of what we've done in our history
26:46 it's just that we're coming to a place where it's going to be
26:49 manifested in a big way... huge way...
26:52 so, and then the two horns, of course,
26:54 religious liberty and political freedoms,
26:57 so you've got the religious and political freedoms
26:59 that we stand for,
27:00 how can this happen in America?
27:02 Well, God is so gracious,
27:04 we have defects in our characters
27:07 and as God re-births us and as God renews us, we grow...
27:10 but if we come to a place where we stop growing...
27:13 we stop accepting truth, we stop walking in the light,
27:15 we can retrograde and go backwards...
27:17 and so, this power that Ivor brought out...
27:19 some characteristics that are there that aren't good...
27:21 but we've grown through some of that...
27:22 America has made changes and they've given freedom
27:25 to... got rid of slavery... et cetera, et cetera
27:27 and tried to give back to the Native Americans, et cetera
27:31 but you can also retrograde
27:33 if you don't continue on in that forward motion...
27:35 you can also go backwards,
27:36 and that appears to be
27:37 what's going to happen with this power,
27:39 why? we're going to look at that more
27:41 as we get into a few more verses
27:43 and study this prophecy
27:45 in more detail in our next program
27:47 but right now we're out of time almost...
27:48 how can they get ahold of us?
27:50 They need to send their questions to: sss@3abn. org
27:54 Okay, you heard that Friends,
27:56 let us know about your questions,
27:58 let us... give us your input, we'd love to hear from you.